This is why it's so important for Taiwan/ROC to continue programs like the Indigenous Defense Fighter, but the KMT is too busy irrumating the PRC to pay any attention to real interests of their own constituency.
Of course the KTM doesn't care about something Indigenous. Afterall 2 million mainland KMT Chinese invaded Formosa and subjugated 20 million Formosans. There is a reason Formosans want to remember 28 February 1947, "Taiwan's Holocaust".
1) Most of the people involved in drug cartels are brainless thugs or stupid patsies. Not the type of people likely to use a high-tech solution to a problem.
Drug cartels don't use high tech tools? I recall people asking who would have a need for a cellphone unless they deal in drugs. And before cellphones it was pagers. "Paging her dealer?" I bet organized crime syndicates, even Mexicans, use computers.
4) The US Air Force. Do you REALLY think that they will allow foreign UAVs to fly for long in US Airspace?
Yeap, they certainly will. The Air Force certainly shot down that Northwest flight to Minneapolis. And that was high altitude. A UAV can fly at low altitudes evading radar long enough to hop over the border. Smugglers even use submarines, which can carry more drugs and other contraband.
Being secretive is any person's right - unless said person is working for the government. ONOZ PUBLIC CAMERAS, but at the same time, ONOZ GOVERNMENT HIDING TANK PLANS!!1.
Government is the servant of the people, people aren't servants of the government. People have the right to know what government is doing in their name but governments have no right to know what the people do.
And where did I use guilt by association? I don't recall ever associating Pystar with SCO, all I said was that they are using the same tactics. Both Hitler and Stalin massacred many people, but saying that does not mean I am associating them, they hated each other.
I could find nothing on the DVD, packaging or invoice to indicate that I only had an "upgrade" version, nor was there any indication at the (not Apple, but reputable) store where I bought it.
It's not on my package either but it does say "Use of this product is subject to acceptance of the software license agreement included in this package." I haven't installed it, or opened the package, yet so I don't know what's in it. For all I know there is no agreement. As for any indications as to it being an upgrade at the store, the disks were behind a locked case and there was a sign on the case saying it was an upgrade for Leopard.
My impression was that Apple are not particularly worried about the "upgrade" issue, but just want to encourage pre-10.5 users to upgrade iLife/iWork at the same time.
The Mac Box Set with Snow Leopard, iLife, and iWork all sell for $170, just $40 more than a regular OS X upgrade. If I wanted either or both iLife and iWork I wouldn't mind paying that, however I have never used iLife and I use NeoOffice as my office suite.
What you just said doesn't disagree with what the parent said - the CD is a full install DVD... That doesn't change the fact that it's licensed as an upgrade from leopard.
I said the same myself elsewhere. The Snow Leopard may be sold as an upgrade but it in fact a full installation disk. I said it more than 2 months ago after I bought my own disk.
I do mind being locked into a small/closed hardware device with no upgrade path, or paying many thousands for workstation class hardware that exceeds my needs.
I did say I wish Apple offered a mid range expandable Mac. I'd like to be able to buy a workstation Mac for about $1500 instead of the $2500 for the Mac Pro. Then again I wish I could be here typing this while smoking a joint. Legally that is.
Piracy/hacking is part of a free market. Questionable restrictions and EULAs are not.
Like MS's EULAs and restrictions? And while hacking is part of a free market piracy is not. Hacking is about creation piracy is about infringement or theft. Hackers put their own effort into creating something whereas pirates take others hard work and seek to benefit from it without paying the owner for it.
False dichotomy. If people want OS X but don't want to run it on Apple's hardware, then it's better for Apple to stay in the software business and pull out of the hardware business.
And what of the false dichotomy of giving up hardware for software? That would be an even faster road to bankruptcy, look at BeOS. Microsoft has been pretty successful at killing compeating OSes with the exception of OS X and Linux. I seriously doubt MS would hesitate if Apple were to start selling licenses to OS X to OEMs. Apple would be compeating right on MS's turf. Right now though Apple makes it easy to install and use MS Windows, Apple even sells Windows as well as VMWare. Microsoft even threatened Apple with discontinuing MS Office for Macs, and as much as geeks, hackers, and slashdotters may not like to admit it most people only think of MS Office when it comes to office suites. I know there are alternatives, I use NeoOffice the native Mac port of Open Office. Apple has released it's own office suite, I would be surprised if wasn't because of the threat. IBM still sells Lotus. But how many people know of these?
That's what it's supposed to be but it's a full install DVD. What I noticed is that neither the Apple website, their retail stores, nor other stores have DVD labeled as other than an upgrade. All the disks I seen so far are $29.
It does work fine on a blank hard drive, when I upgraded, I put a new 500GB hard drive in my MacBook and did a clean install on that, but you are supposed to have an earlier copy of MaxOSX somewhere.
A tech at an Apple store told me Snow Leopard would install on an Intel Mac with only Tiger or a blank disk. If I could afford it I'd go ahead and swap my HDD for a bigger one, but I already swapped the HDD that my MBP came with with a bigger one last January. I swapped the 160GB it came with with a 320GB drive. However a couple of weeks ago I came across larger disks.
I'll be trying that myself RSN, after I upgrade to Snow Leopard and install Ubuntu. Apple allows it but only OS X Server and only on Apple branded hardware. Up above some people have posted links to OS X being virtualized, as have I. Here's Mac OS X Tiger on VMware Server. And my link on an Mac OS X guest.
it is likely that Psystar customers will cause noise with apple, resulting in some sort of crackdown. Most of us just hope things stay quiet and under the radar.
Not me, I'd like to see Apple bring a sludge hammer down on Pystar's head, and leave individual hackintochers alone.
On the same token, it seems these days a lot of add-on hardware is Mac compatible, hard drives, memory, video cards, sound cards, the list goes on.
Are you saying Apple uses parts from a bunch of component manufacturers? I can get a Mac with the disk drive I want? That's funny because when I ordered my Mac I had little choice as to what the HDD was. Then when I wanted to upgrade the disk after 1 1/2 years, Apple sent me to an Apple authorized service center to swap the hdd because they don't do that stuff. Or take the video card, only the Mac Pro gives a choice as to graphics card. Currently the Mac Pro comes standard with the NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 with 512MB of GDDR3. It can be upgraded to an ATI Radeon HD 4870 with 512MB of GDDR5 memory or an NVIDIA GeForce GT 120. That's only 3 graphics cards. The list goes on.
Again, IANAMU, does Apple's support coverage encompass machines with things like user-added memory & videocards?
No, when I had my HDD swapped Apple told me that if I have any problem and they determine it's the HDD they will not support it. They told me the installer would have to service it.
That is actually one of the biggest problems I've heard from people, that Macs are not highly customizable. Another is a mid range expandable tower.
For instance it does not need as much hard disk space as Leopard does.
Nor should it, given all the PPC code was removed.
And why would there be PPC code on an Intel Mac? It should be easy to write the installer to test for the processor then only install the correct code. I know universal binaries, like what XCode produces, may not test but I can't see OX S being programmed in XCode. Even then though utilities like Spring Cleaning can remove unneeded code so I see no reason there should be PPC code in an Intel installation of OS X.
I am waiting for the ability to run it ala VirtualBox or Vmware Player/Workstation.
That's what I want to do, run Snow Leopard, SN in a VM. I want to setup my Mac I'm typing this on to dual boot SN and Ubuntu. Then I'll use VirtualBox or another VM program to run Ubuntu in a VM. I'd also like to run SN in a VM in Ubuntu, that way I could boot into either OS and still run the other one. In the VirtualBox forums I read it was possible to run OS X as a guess but when I last searched I didn't find out how to.
I don't have any use for my Mac mini other than checking some web design comparability with Safari under OSX
I'll be using my Mac for development. With my Mac I can program and test them in Linux, OS X, and Windows.
I don't like having yet another piece of hardware I don't even need sitting around.
I know what you mean. I have a WinME PC with hardware problems I'm thinking of putting into storage for now and I have two other PCs, one dualboot with NT4.0 and Redhat and the other's a Linux PC. That is I bought it new with Linux preinstalled. Both are under my desk now. The NT4 box being more than 10 years old, and having a DEC Alpha CPU, I'm not sure what to do. That is other than gut the case and rebuild. Now I plan on doing that with the Linux PC, it was a low powered PC anyway, I paid $250 for it versus more than $5000 for the NT4 box. I have other PCs renters in my apartment building left behind as well. For those I was thinking of listing them, and maybe my old ones, on Freecycle for anyone willing to come and pick them up.
Maybe you can do the same, list your hardware on Freecycle.
I don't really care about this particular court battle, however, the ramifications for what an EULA can restrict are important to pay attention to. What if MS decides you can only install Windows on a list of approved brands?
Why should they? MS makes money from allowing anyone to install Windows on PCs, every Windows license sold means money in MS's pockets. MS does not develop and sell PCs. Apple on the other hand does sell hardware. Apple previously allowed, heck licensed Mac OS for Mac clones. But they lost money on it. Now let me ask, is it better for Apple to stay in business or go bankrupt?
It's only supposed to be installed if Leopard is already installed. Snow Leopard is more of an update than an upgrade, it doesn't add many new features like the upgrade from Tiger to Leopard did. Instead the code was improved so it was more stable and doesn't require as much in hardware. For instance it does not need as much hard disk space as Leopard does. A tech support person in an Apple store said the upgrade can be installed on an Intel Mac with Tiger though.
I see no reason why I cannot buy a retail version of photoshop, install it on a machine, and sell the machine to someone else (provided I sell the disk with the fair use copy that resides on the machine).
That's the First sale doctrine, where you legally buy a copyrighted work then sell it to someone else, along with all copies you made including the installed copy. However Autodesk, I don't know if others do it also, has stopped or tried to stop people from selling legal copies of AutoCAD. Autodesk has even filed DMCA takedown notices with eBay to stop the auctioning of AutoDesk products. One eBay seller sued Autodesk for this and won.
I don't think anyone would object to me buying a retail copy of Windows, installing it on a machine, and selling the machine (and install disk) to a third party. It happens pretty regularly.
MS doesn't specify what hardware Windows can be installed on, Apple's EULA though specifically states it can only be installed on Apple branded hardware.
I don't need a license to read a book. I don't need a license to play the contents of a CD. I don't need a license to play the contents of a DVD. I sure as hell should not need a license to run a program on a CD or DVD.
The first part about reading a book is true but hardware makers already paid for a license to allow their hardware to play CDs and DVDs. According to wiki "producers have to pay US$15-$20 per player in license fees, to the patent holders of the DVD technology (Sony, Philips, Toshiba and Time Warner) as well as for MPEG-2 licenses." DVD movies players use Content Scramble System which uses a key licensed by the DVD Copy Control Association. So if I wanted to build my own DVD player so it could play most movies I would have to buy a license, if they'd sell me one. Fat chance without megabucks.
Does apple even sell full version of their OS that don't come bundled with their hardware?
Yes Apple sells the OS X, Snow Leopard now, DVD. You can order it online, in an Apple store, or from retailers. Those who live near a Fry's Electronics can buy Snow Leopard there. If there is no Fry's near you, as much as I wish there were one near me so I could buy electrical and electronic components there isn't, you can also buy it at BestBuy.
No case about violating EULAs has ever been brought to court in the US.
I don't recall exactly what the grounds are but more than a year ago Apple sued Pystar and it's still in court. Like SCO Pystar has been using delaying tactics.
Because Apple uses dubious means to prevent people from running OSX on computers they don't bless. There's always going to be a market for it as long as Apple refuses to allow for people to just install on whatever hardware they want.
Apple tried that before. While Steve Jobs was gone Apple licensed Mac clones but when Apple brought Jobs back he looked at the licensing and saw that Apple was losing money because of it. So he killed the clones. When he did Jobs said Apple was a hardware company and licensing the Mac OS would reduce hardware sales.
Not soon enough, it's been more than a year since Apple took them to court. People were saying Pystar was dead back in January, here it is 10 months later and they're still kicking. They may, I hope not, end up like SCO, hard if not impossible to kill.
http://chameleon.osx86.hu/
The same, but FOSS. Some even suggest the same codebase, but I of course would never be cynical enough to suggest that or that running strings on both if someone had a spare moment might be interesting.
Pystar itself uses an open source boot loader, Darwin Universal Boot Loader or DUBL. This leads me to question exactly what value Pystar adds. It can't be hardware compatibility and drivers, the CNet tester even says "It seems like Psystar still has a lot of homework to do when it comes to drivers and hardware compatibility." Hackers, open source, and other programmers provide a list of hardware compatible on the OSX86 Project website.
Falcon
Oh, btw I hope Apple comes down on Pystar like a sludge hammer. I don't mind if individuals, such as those with the OSX86 project work to get hackntoches running, but not for profit businesses. While I believe Apple should either license OSX to OEMs or release mid range expandable Macs I also believe they should be able to set hardware requirements. The simple fact is though is that Apple is a system integrator, they make hardware and software run well together for the most part. By specifying hardware Apple can make sure the software runs well on it.
Did Word push compeating product out because it was better or because it came bundled with PCs? I bet it's the later.
Not really. Microsoft bundled MS DOS and Windows 3.x with PCs, but never, to my knowledge and memory, bundled Word 6.0 or Excel. It started happening, I think, only after Office 97 was built and MS's OEM sales machine spun up.
After spending about 1/2 hour searching I didn't find a reference to when MS started offering application bundles with hardware and I don't know when they did.
Until then PC manufacturers didn't care about the software; I don't even remember if they installed any OS on the HDD or not.
DOS did come installed on new PCs. Compaq, IBM, and Zenith (yes Zenith used to make PCs. Apparently they still do in India, they're sold all over the world except Canada and the US), along with other OEMs sold PCs with the OS already installed.
Wikipedia says that Word won because it was better. I used WordPerfect myself at that time, and I must say that WP was not as slick as Word.
Back then I don't recall what I was using, but I started with MacWrite. DOS didn't have anything like it.
Word is still with us; WordPerfect, on the other hand, not so much
It only has a small market but WordPerfect is still with us, In April 2008 Corel released their "WordPerfect Office X4 office suite containing the new X4 version of WordPerfect which includes support for PDF, OpenDocument and Office Open XML."
Actually I bet if I look the only suite the major OEMs will bundle with Windows PCs is MS Office.
No, actually there is another office suite called Microsoft Works
Okay, I phrased it wrong. Perhaps I would of been closer if I said OEMs would only bundle MS office suits, I hadn't thought of MS Works.
most people that buy computers at Fry's don't need MS Office anyway
There is no Fry's near me, that I know of, but stores around here that sell PCs sell they with bundles. Fry's has general electronics too doesn't it? The place I loved going to, when I lived near there, was Skycraft Parts and Surplus. If you're a hobbyist and want to build something electrical or electronic if they didn't have the part you'd have to order it. And it wasn't just electrical and electronic parts but military surplus as well, even backpacks, empty ammo boxes, and tents as well as marine equipment.
It is common, though, to find trial versions of Office
Yea, my Mac came with a trial-ware version of MS Office, 2007 I think.
Slashdot Mirror
it's if they could use them cheaper than humans. They can't, yet.
Using humans coyotes can smuggle drugs and humans. So they get money from drugs and from those being smuggled. Or their buyers.
Falcon
This is why it's so important for Taiwan/ROC to continue programs like the Indigenous Defense Fighter, but the KMT is too busy irrumating the PRC to pay any attention to real interests of their own constituency.
Of course the KTM doesn't care about something Indigenous. Afterall 2 million mainland KMT Chinese invaded Formosa and subjugated 20 million Formosans. There is a reason Formosans want to remember 28 February 1947, "Taiwan's Holocaust".
Falcon
1) Most of the people involved in drug cartels are brainless thugs or stupid patsies. Not the type of people likely to use a high-tech solution to a problem.
Drug cartels don't use high tech tools? I recall people asking who would have a need for a cellphone unless they deal in drugs. And before cellphones it was pagers. "Paging her dealer?" I bet organized crime syndicates, even Mexicans, use computers.
4) The US Air Force. Do you REALLY think that they will allow foreign UAVs to fly for long in US Airspace?
Yeap, they certainly will. The Air Force certainly shot down that Northwest flight to Minneapolis. And that was high altitude. A UAV can fly at low altitudes evading radar long enough to hop over the border. Smugglers even use submarines, which can carry more drugs and other contraband.
Falcon
The best proof of this is that small countries buy military technology from larger countries.
I didn't know Belgium was a large country. Switzerland is also big? As is Israel?
Falcon
Being secretive is any person's right - unless said person is working for the government. ONOZ PUBLIC CAMERAS, but at the same time, ONOZ GOVERNMENT HIDING TANK PLANS!!1.
Government is the servant of the people, people aren't servants of the government. People have the right to know what government is doing in their name but governments have no right to know what the people do.
Falcon
Going for the guilt by association card so early in the morning? ;)
And where did I use guilt by association? I don't recall ever associating Pystar with SCO, all I said was that they are using the same tactics. Both Hitler and Stalin massacred many people, but saying that does not mean I am associating them, they hated each other.
Falcon
I could find nothing on the DVD, packaging or invoice to indicate that I only had an "upgrade" version, nor was there any indication at the (not Apple, but reputable) store where I bought it.
It's not on my package either but it does say "Use of this product is subject to acceptance of the software license agreement included in this package." I haven't installed it, or opened the package, yet so I don't know what's in it. For all I know there is no agreement. As for any indications as to it being an upgrade at the store, the disks were behind a locked case and there was a sign on the case saying it was an upgrade for Leopard.
My impression was that Apple are not particularly worried about the "upgrade" issue, but just want to encourage pre-10.5 users to upgrade iLife/iWork at the same time.
The Mac Box Set with Snow Leopard, iLife, and iWork all sell for $170, just $40 more than a regular OS X upgrade. If I wanted either or both iLife and iWork I wouldn't mind paying that, however I have never used iLife and I use NeoOffice as my office suite.
Falcon
What you just said doesn't disagree with what the parent said - the CD is a full install DVD... That doesn't change the fact that it's licensed as an upgrade from leopard.
I said the same myself elsewhere. The Snow Leopard may be sold as an upgrade but it in fact a full installation disk. I said it more than 2 months ago after I bought my own disk.
Falcon
I do mind being locked into a small/closed hardware device with no upgrade path, or paying many thousands for workstation class hardware that exceeds my needs.
I did say I wish Apple offered a mid range expandable Mac. I'd like to be able to buy a workstation Mac for about $1500 instead of the $2500 for the Mac Pro. Then again I wish I could be here typing this while smoking a joint. Legally that is.
Piracy/hacking is part of a free market. Questionable restrictions and EULAs are not.
Like MS's EULAs and restrictions? And while hacking is part of a free market piracy is not. Hacking is about creation piracy is about infringement or theft. Hackers put their own effort into creating something whereas pirates take others hard work and seek to benefit from it without paying the owner for it.
Falcon
False dichotomy. If people want OS X but don't want to run it on Apple's hardware, then it's better for Apple to stay in the software business and pull out of the hardware business.
And what of the false dichotomy of giving up hardware for software? That would be an even faster road to bankruptcy, look at BeOS. Microsoft has been pretty successful at killing compeating OSes with the exception of OS X and Linux. I seriously doubt MS would hesitate if Apple were to start selling licenses to OS X to OEMs. Apple would be compeating right on MS's turf. Right now though Apple makes it easy to install and use MS Windows, Apple even sells Windows as well as VMWare. Microsoft even threatened Apple with discontinuing MS Office for Macs, and as much as geeks, hackers, and slashdotters may not like to admit it most people only think of MS Office when it comes to office suites. I know there are alternatives, I use NeoOffice the native Mac port of Open Office. Apple has released it's own office suite, I would be surprised if wasn't because of the threat. IBM still sells Lotus. But how many people know of these?
Falcon
That is an upgrade DVD.
That's what it's supposed to be but it's a full install DVD. What I noticed is that neither the Apple website, their retail stores, nor other stores have DVD labeled as other than an upgrade. All the disks I seen so far are $29.
It does work fine on a blank hard drive, when I upgraded, I put a new 500GB hard drive in my MacBook and did a clean install on that, but you are supposed to have an earlier copy of MaxOSX somewhere.
A tech at an Apple store told me Snow Leopard would install on an Intel Mac with only Tiger or a blank disk. If I could afford it I'd go ahead and swap my HDD for a bigger one, but I already swapped the HDD that my MBP came with with a bigger one last January. I swapped the 160GB it came with with a 320GB drive. However a couple of weeks ago I came across larger disks.
Falcon
Loading Mac OS X into a VM is always a challenge.
I'll be trying that myself RSN, after I upgrade to Snow Leopard and install Ubuntu. Apple allows it but only OS X Server and only on Apple branded hardware. Up above some people have posted links to OS X being virtualized, as have I. Here's Mac OS X Tiger on VMware Server. And my link on an Mac OS X guest.
Falcon
it is likely that Psystar customers will cause noise with apple, resulting in some sort of crackdown. Most of us just hope things stay quiet and under the radar.
Not me, I'd like to see Apple bring a sludge hammer down on Pystar's head, and leave individual hackintochers alone.
Falcon
On the same token, it seems these days a lot of add-on hardware is Mac compatible, hard drives, memory, video cards, sound cards, the list goes on.
Are you saying Apple uses parts from a bunch of component manufacturers? I can get a Mac with the disk drive I want? That's funny because when I ordered my Mac I had little choice as to what the HDD was. Then when I wanted to upgrade the disk after 1 1/2 years, Apple sent me to an Apple authorized service center to swap the hdd because they don't do that stuff. Or take the video card, only the Mac Pro gives a choice as to graphics card. Currently the Mac Pro comes standard with the NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 with 512MB of GDDR3. It can be upgraded to an ATI Radeon HD 4870 with 512MB of GDDR5 memory or an NVIDIA GeForce GT 120. That's only 3 graphics cards. The list goes on.
Again, IANAMU, does Apple's support coverage encompass machines with things like user-added memory & videocards?
No, when I had my HDD swapped Apple told me that if I have any problem and they determine it's the HDD they will not support it. They told me the installer would have to service it.
That is actually one of the biggest problems I've heard from people, that Macs are not highly customizable. Another is a mid range expandable tower.
Falcon
For instance it does not need as much hard disk space as Leopard does.
Nor should it, given all the PPC code was removed.
And why would there be PPC code on an Intel Mac? It should be easy to write the installer to test for the processor then only install the correct code. I know universal binaries, like what XCode produces, may not test but I can't see OX S being programmed in XCode. Even then though utilities like Spring Cleaning can remove unneeded code so I see no reason there should be PPC code in an Intel installation of OS X.
Falcon
I am waiting for the ability to run it ala VirtualBox or Vmware Player/Workstation.
That's what I want to do, run Snow Leopard, SN in a VM. I want to setup my Mac I'm typing this on to dual boot SN and Ubuntu. Then I'll use VirtualBox or another VM program to run Ubuntu in a VM. I'd also like to run SN in a VM in Ubuntu, that way I could boot into either OS and still run the other one. In the VirtualBox forums I read it was possible to run OS X as a guess but when I last searched I didn't find out how to.
I don't have any use for my Mac mini other than checking some web design comparability with Safari under OSX
I'll be using my Mac for development. With my Mac I can program and test them in Linux, OS X, and Windows.
I don't like having yet another piece of hardware I don't even need sitting around.
I know what you mean. I have a WinME PC with hardware problems I'm thinking of putting into storage for now and I have two other PCs, one dualboot with NT4.0 and Redhat and the other's a Linux PC. That is I bought it new with Linux preinstalled. Both are under my desk now. The NT4 box being more than 10 years old, and having a DEC Alpha CPU, I'm not sure what to do. That is other than gut the case and rebuild. Now I plan on doing that with the Linux PC, it was a low powered PC anyway, I paid $250 for it versus more than $5000 for the NT4 box. I have other PCs renters in my apartment building left behind as well. For those I was thinking of listing them, and maybe my old ones, on Freecycle for anyone willing to come and pick them up.
Maybe you can do the same, list your hardware on Freecycle.
Falcon
I don't really care about this particular court battle, however, the ramifications for what an EULA can restrict are important to pay attention to. What if MS decides you can only install Windows on a list of approved brands?
Why should they? MS makes money from allowing anyone to install Windows on PCs, every Windows license sold means money in MS's pockets. MS does not develop and sell PCs. Apple on the other hand does sell hardware. Apple previously allowed, heck licensed Mac OS for Mac clones. But they lost money on it. Now let me ask, is it better for Apple to stay in business or go bankrupt?
Falcon
It's only supposed to be installed if Leopard is already installed. Snow Leopard is more of an update than an upgrade, it doesn't add many new features like the upgrade from Tiger to Leopard did. Instead the code was improved so it was more stable and doesn't require as much in hardware. For instance it does not need as much hard disk space as Leopard does. A tech support person in an Apple store said the upgrade can be installed on an Intel Mac with Tiger though.
Falcon
I see no reason why I cannot buy a retail version of photoshop, install it on a machine, and sell the machine to someone else (provided I sell the disk with the fair use copy that resides on the machine).
That's the First sale doctrine, where you legally buy a copyrighted work then sell it to someone else, along with all copies you made including the installed copy. However Autodesk, I don't know if others do it also, has stopped or tried to stop people from selling legal copies of AutoCAD. Autodesk has even filed DMCA takedown notices with eBay to stop the auctioning of AutoDesk products. One eBay seller sued Autodesk for this and won.
I don't think anyone would object to me buying a retail copy of Windows, installing it on a machine, and selling the machine (and install disk) to a third party. It happens pretty regularly.
MS doesn't specify what hardware Windows can be installed on, Apple's EULA though specifically states it can only be installed on Apple branded hardware.
I don't need a license to read a book. I don't need a license to play the contents of a CD. I don't need a license to play the contents of a DVD. I sure as hell should not need a license to run a program on a CD or DVD.
The first part about reading a book is true but hardware makers already paid for a license to allow their hardware to play CDs and DVDs. According to wiki "producers have to pay US$15-$20 per player in license fees, to the patent holders of the DVD technology (Sony, Philips, Toshiba and Time Warner) as well as for MPEG-2 licenses." DVD movies players use Content Scramble System which uses a key licensed by the DVD Copy Control Association. So if I wanted to build my own DVD player so it could play most movies I would have to buy a license, if they'd sell me one. Fat chance without megabucks.
Falcon
Does apple even sell full version of their OS that don't come bundled with their hardware?
Yes Apple sells the OS X, Snow Leopard now, DVD. You can order it online, in an Apple store, or from retailers. Those who live near a Fry's Electronics can buy Snow Leopard there. If there is no Fry's near you, as much as I wish there were one near me so I could buy electrical and electronic components there isn't, you can also buy it at BestBuy.
Falcon
No case about violating EULAs has ever been brought to court in the US.
I don't recall exactly what the grounds are but more than a year ago Apple sued Pystar and it's still in court. Like SCO Pystar has been using delaying tactics.
Falcon
Because Apple uses dubious means to prevent people from running OSX on computers they don't bless. There's always going to be a market for it as long as Apple refuses to allow for people to just install on whatever hardware they want.
Apple tried that before. While Steve Jobs was gone Apple licensed Mac clones but when Apple brought Jobs back he looked at the licensing and saw that Apple was losing money because of it. So he killed the clones. When he did Jobs said Apple was a hardware company and licensing the Mac OS would reduce hardware sales.
Falcon
and good riddance.
Not soon enough, it's been more than a year since Apple took them to court. People were saying Pystar was dead back in January, here it is 10 months later and they're still kicking. They may, I hope not, end up like SCO, hard if not impossible to kill.
Falcon
http://chameleon.osx86.hu/
The same, but FOSS. Some even suggest the same codebase, but I of course would never be cynical enough to suggest that or that running strings on both if someone had a spare moment might be interesting.
Pystar itself uses an open source boot loader, Darwin Universal Boot Loader or DUBL. This leads me to question exactly what value Pystar adds. It can't be hardware compatibility and drivers, the CNet tester even says "It seems like Psystar still has a lot of homework to do when it comes to drivers and hardware compatibility." Hackers, open source, and other programmers provide a list of hardware compatible on the OSX86 Project website.
Falcon
Oh, btw I hope Apple comes down on Pystar like a sludge hammer. I don't mind if individuals, such as those with the OSX86 project work to get hackntoches running, but not for profit businesses. While I believe Apple should either license OSX to OEMs or release mid range expandable Macs I also believe they should be able to set hardware requirements. The simple fact is though is that Apple is a system integrator, they make hardware and software run well together for the most part. By specifying hardware Apple can make sure the software runs well on it.
Did Word push compeating product out because it was better or because it came bundled with PCs? I bet it's the later.
Not really. Microsoft bundled MS DOS and Windows 3.x with PCs, but never, to my knowledge and memory, bundled Word 6.0 or Excel. It started happening, I think, only after Office 97 was built and MS's OEM sales machine spun up.
After spending about 1/2 hour searching I didn't find a reference to when MS started offering application bundles with hardware and I don't know when they did.
Until then PC manufacturers didn't care about the software; I don't even remember if they installed any OS on the HDD or not.
DOS did come installed on new PCs. Compaq, IBM, and Zenith (yes Zenith used to make PCs. Apparently they still do in India, they're sold all over the world except Canada and the US), along with other OEMs sold PCs with the OS already installed.
Wikipedia says that Word won because it was better. I used WordPerfect myself at that time, and I must say that WP was not as slick as Word.
Back then I don't recall what I was using, but I started with MacWrite. DOS didn't have anything like it.
Word is still with us; WordPerfect, on the other hand, not so much
It only has a small market but WordPerfect is still with us, In April 2008 Corel released their "WordPerfect Office X4 office suite containing the new X4 version of WordPerfect which includes support for PDF, OpenDocument and Office Open XML."
Actually I bet if I look the only suite the major OEMs will bundle with Windows PCs is MS Office.
No, actually there is another office suite called Microsoft Works
Okay, I phrased it wrong. Perhaps I would of been closer if I said OEMs would only bundle MS office suits, I hadn't thought of MS Works.
most people that buy computers at Fry's don't need MS Office anyway
There is no Fry's near me, that I know of, but stores around here that sell PCs sell they with bundles. Fry's has general electronics too doesn't it? The place I loved going to, when I lived near there, was Skycraft Parts and Surplus. If you're a hobbyist and want to build something electrical or electronic if they didn't have the part you'd have to order it. And it wasn't just electrical and electronic parts but military surplus as well, even backpacks, empty ammo boxes, and tents as well as marine equipment.
It is common, though, to find trial versions of Office
Yea, my Mac came with a trial-ware version of MS Office, 2007 I think.
Falcon