Slashdot Mirror
Psystar's Rebel EFI Hackintosh Tool Reviewed, Found Wanting
CWmike writes "While the world focused on Microsoft's launch of Windows 7, Florida-based Psystar quietly launched Rebel EFI, a software product that should worry Apple a lot more than Microsoft's latest operating system. Rebel EFI allows users to run Apple's flagship operating system, Mac OS X Snow Leopard, on non-Apple hardware. Computerworld test drove the making of a Hackintosh out of a generic PC with the company's new software package and found a product that has a lot of homework still to do. Reviewer Frank Ohlhorst's final analysis: 'Psystar's Rebel EFI (a free trial is available) is an interesting tool, but it is very limited when it comes to the selection of hardware that you can use. The company really needs to create a compatible hardware list and post that on its Web site — and it also needs to create some usable documentation. As it stands right now, you can use Rebel EFI to build a Mac clone, but unless you stick to relatively generic hardware, you will be disappointed.'"
As it stands right now, you can use Rebel EFI to build a Mac clone, but unless you stick to relatively generic hardware, you will be disappointed
So in other words an OS made to run and tested only on 6 or 7 different major configurations of computers is going to need some tweaking before it can run on other, untested and unsupported hardware? This is hardly a suprise. Next thing is we're going to have a story saying that iPhone OS doesn't run so great on the G1...
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
http://chameleon.osx86.hu/
The same, but FOSS. Some even suggest the same codebase, but I of course would never be cynical enough to suggest that or that running strings on both if someone had a spare moment might be interesting.
"To any truly impartial person, it would be obvious that I am right."
Apple didn't take the time to write drivers and support hardware that it doesn't use? No way.
...is that it turns it into a cat-and-mouse game. Just like the Apple vs Palm USB issue. Apple will find a way to prevent OS X from running on this, and people will have a system where any software update could brick their computer. Then the Psystar team will find a way around that. Rinse, repeat. So I can either ignore upgrades, use a different OS, or actually buy a Mac. Sounds like some great choices.
I am waiting for the ability to run it ala VirtualBox or Vmware Player/Workstation.
I don't have any use for my Mac mini other than checking some web design comparability with Safari under OSX (Win port does not like WINE). I can run XP under VirtualBox no problems but the Win Port of Safari isn't exactly the same anyway.
I don't like having yet another piece of hardware I don't even need sitting around. I already have two desktops, 2 laptop, media center pc and my homebuilt router (ITX board w/ dual Gb lan + gb switch + wifi card running pfSense).
Perhaps this Rebel product will lead the way into running OSX under virtualized hardware?
Although I am all for the proliferation of decent software, Apple should be considerably nervous about these kinds of offerings. Right now the support loop for hardware is fairly closed; the amount of variables they must take into consideration when providing tech-support is fairly small considering they control the hardware side of things so tightly.
On the same token, it seems these days a lot of add-on hardware is Mac compatible, hard drives, memory, video cards, sound cards, the list goes on...so this leads me a conclusion of Apple putting more bullets in its feet as the list of upgrades and add-ons for Apple machines grows; they lose that hardware control variable.
This leads to the next conclusion, at what point does outfitting a machine with tons of non-factory-spec hardware separate it from a ground up build? If it is just the motherboard, then they are facing a conundrum.
Again, IANAMU, does Apple's support coverage encompass machines with things like user-added memory & videocards? If it does, then eventually they might as well just allow individuals to purchase OEM copies for their build, seeing as their support loop must scale to additional interoperability anyways.
'We are trying to prove ourselves wrong as quickly as possible, because only in that way can we find progress.' RPF
I mean really, should I feel badly about pirating something that already breaks the rules?
Reviewer forgot to mention that the main reason for Psystar to release the software at this point in time is because they are a sinking ship due to pending
litigation in 2 separate states.
Groklaw reference ::
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20091024213209193
...is that Psystar is still around.
All the previous predictions were that Apple would sue them into a hole so deep, the Salvation Army would be sending them their beans with a shotgun.
Yet here they are, still going strong, apparently?
Good for them.
[End Of Line]
Sir. You are not supposed to drink the bong water.
Cue Apple suing Computerworld in 3, 2, 1...
Loading Mac OS X into a VM is always a challenge. I haven't looked into it for more than a year and I hope there are improvements, but I'm not holding my breath.
Since when is it "apple hardware" all a mac is, is just a pc parts in a flashy case with the apple logo stamped on it. they use intel processor and intel chipset.
I got Dell Mini 9 last spring but it was almost unusable with WinXP due to the screen resolution and sluggishness of Windows on Atom CPU. Later I installed Mac OS X 10.5.7 and then 10.5.8 with EFI and it completely changed usability problems I had with the netbook. And no, I didn't copy that floppy but rather bought Leopard DVD from Apple.
This is an intermediate solution because I'm still waiting for a netbook or a 4x iPhone-type panel from Apple. Once I put my hands on it I will certainly sell this Dell.
Maybe they put unicorns and fairy dust into it, too, but I doubt it.
A Mac is just a fancy PC with a pre-set hardware spec. If it was really some bizarre, proprietary hardware configuration then Windows and Linux wouldn't run on it. And the fact that you can run virtual OSX on a non-Mac if you don't care about unsupported hardware just reinforces that.
you have made a very strong point, but not the point i think you wanted to make. congratulations, you ignorant moron.
Better the devil you know... I'm unhappy enough about Microsoft's kill switches, and I'm still on Windows 2000. There's no way I'd trust a crack that replaces Apple's copy protection with one containing a kill switch like this:
"Rebel EFI is free to try and download, though it will have limited hardware functionality and a run-time of two hours."
Certainly not one by a company that's already stated they can't keep track of their own paperwork.
I have just tried the Rebel EFI boot CD and so far not luck in booting from a USB DVD Burner on a Core 2 Duo.
My guess and from some reading it seems to require a standard SATA (is IDE supported ?) DVD drive...
OSX uses the xnu kernel (a derivative of Mach). It is not based on BSD, and only provides a BSD userland to make things easier for developers/users. Xnu is open-source.
Having said that, a huge chunk of the user-visible runtime is not open-source, and Apple maintain an actively protective stance over it. I agree with the lawsuits comment...
Simon.
Physicists get Hadrons!
Does that Christian university STILL have that course that gives credit for Christian postings on "difficult" websites ? Do they have an integrated kindergarten ?
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
Psystar quietly launched Rebel EFI, a software product that should worry Apple a lot more than Microsoft's latest operating system. Rebel EFI allows users to run Apple's flagship operating system, Mac OS X Snow Leopard, on non-Apple hardware.
The Hackintosh is a system-builder project for the geek.
The only thing that can hurt Apple is competition from the OEM and retail giants.
and good riddance.
Not soon enough, it's been more than a year since Apple took them to court. People were saying Pystar was dead back in January, here it is 10 months later and they're still kicking. They may, I hope not, end up like SCO, hard if not impossible to kill.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
From what I know about copyright, I only need a license if I intend to copy for some purpose that does not fall under "fair use". If I bought a copy from a licensee, I have a right to sell that copy.
I see no reason why I cannot buy a retail version of photoshop, install it on a machine, and sell the machine to someone else (provided I sell the disk with the fair use copy that resides on the machine).
I don't think anyone would object to me buying a retail copy of Windows, installing it on a machine, and selling the machine (and install disk) to a third party. It happens pretty regularly.
I don't need a license to read a book. I don't need a license to play the contents of a CD. I don't need a license to play the contents of a DVD. I sure as hell should not need a license to run a program on a CD or DVD. "Copy right" is the right to distribute copies. If I'm not doing that, I shouldn't need a license.
I really don't understand why Psystar hasn't emphasized that as the core of their defense. In fact, they don't really seem to be presenting any defense at all. It's suspicious as hell. They seem hell-bent on losing. Which is odd, since they almost seem to have been formed to litigate / prove some kind of point.
I mean, if you're not out to prove something, then why would you buy a machine with an OS from a company that's determined to shut you down? Makes no sense...
No case about violating EULAs has ever been brought to court in the US.
I don't recall exactly what the grounds are but more than a year ago Apple sued Pystar and it's still in court. Like SCO Pystar has been using delaying tactics.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Does apple even sell full version of their OS that don't come bundled with their hardware?
Yes Apple sells the OS X, Snow Leopard now, DVD. You can order it online, in an Apple store, or from retailers. Those who live near a Fry's Electronics can buy Snow Leopard there. If there is no Fry's near you, as much as I wish there were one near me so I could buy electrical and electronic components there isn't, you can also buy it at BestBuy.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
I see no reason why I cannot buy a retail version of photoshop, install it on a machine, and sell the machine to someone else (provided I sell the disk with the fair use copy that resides on the machine).
That's the First sale doctrine, where you legally buy a copyrighted work then sell it to someone else, along with all copies you made including the installed copy. However Autodesk, I don't know if others do it also, has stopped or tried to stop people from selling legal copies of AutoCAD. Autodesk has even filed DMCA takedown notices with eBay to stop the auctioning of AutoDesk products. One eBay seller sued Autodesk for this and won.
I don't think anyone would object to me buying a retail copy of Windows, installing it on a machine, and selling the machine (and install disk) to a third party. It happens pretty regularly.
MS doesn't specify what hardware Windows can be installed on, Apple's EULA though specifically states it can only be installed on Apple branded hardware.
I don't need a license to read a book. I don't need a license to play the contents of a CD. I don't need a license to play the contents of a DVD. I sure as hell should not need a license to run a program on a CD or DVD.
The first part about reading a book is true but hardware makers already paid for a license to allow their hardware to play CDs and DVDs. According to wiki "producers have to pay US$15-$20 per player in license fees, to the patent holders of the DVD technology (Sony, Philips, Toshiba and Time Warner) as well as for MPEG-2 licenses." DVD movies players use Content Scramble System which uses a key licensed by the DVD Copy Control Association. So if I wanted to build my own DVD player so it could play most movies I would have to buy a license, if they'd sell me one. Fat chance without megabucks.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
It's only supposed to be installed if Leopard is already installed. Snow Leopard is more of an update than an upgrade, it doesn't add many new features like the upgrade from Tiger to Leopard did. Instead the code was improved so it was more stable and doesn't require as much in hardware. For instance it does not need as much hard disk space as Leopard does. A tech support person in an Apple store said the upgrade can be installed on an Intel Mac with Tiger though.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
What IS scary:
Replace capitalized ATHIEST with CHRISTIAN and Christian with Atheist and it is much more likely. Most atheists are quite agnostic, but you really don't want to know what happens behind the closed doors of some christian zealot's communities. Might wanr to watch latter days.
BTW I am a Christian, but the double morality of some really scares me.
I am waiting for the ability to run it ala VirtualBox or Vmware Player/Workstation.
That's what I want to do, run Snow Leopard, SN in a VM. I want to setup my Mac I'm typing this on to dual boot SN and Ubuntu. Then I'll use VirtualBox or another VM program to run Ubuntu in a VM. I'd also like to run SN in a VM in Ubuntu, that way I could boot into either OS and still run the other one. In the VirtualBox forums I read it was possible to run OS X as a guess but when I last searched I didn't find out how to.
I don't have any use for my Mac mini other than checking some web design comparability with Safari under OSX
I'll be using my Mac for development. With my Mac I can program and test them in Linux, OS X, and Windows.
I don't like having yet another piece of hardware I don't even need sitting around.
I know what you mean. I have a WinME PC with hardware problems I'm thinking of putting into storage for now and I have two other PCs, one dualboot with NT4.0 and Redhat and the other's a Linux PC. That is I bought it new with Linux preinstalled. Both are under my desk now. The NT4 box being more than 10 years old, and having a DEC Alpha CPU, I'm not sure what to do. That is other than gut the case and rebuild. Now I plan on doing that with the Linux PC, it was a low powered PC anyway, I paid $250 for it versus more than $5000 for the NT4 box. I have other PCs renters in my apartment building left behind as well. For those I was thinking of listing them, and maybe my old ones, on Freecycle for anyone willing to come and pick them up.
Maybe you can do the same, list your hardware on Freecycle.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
What I find funny is, how people are complaining about Apple making it impossible to run MacOS on "normal" PCs...
Apple does not do anything like that! They use EFI in their Macs, not BIOS, never have been, there is no Mac with BIOS, Bootloading, Booting e.g. does work different on a Mac and OS X than it does on PCs...
Who is it that prevents anything? Apple is not going to implement BIOS-Support in OS X, why should they? And the efforts of installing OS X on normal PCs are always to emulate an EFI...
there is nothing prevented, Macs are just no standard PCs. Never have been. Although they are way closer related, now that Apple uses Intel-Chips.
Apple does not have an activation of their software, they don't provide nor need serial numbers, registration is 100% optional. Apple trusts their users much, is giving back much to the open source community (although that has been different in the past...). Who is it that is preventing anything?
Just complainig because your PC does not have EFI? Then get one that does, EFI is the future and is coming to more and more "normal" PCs, too!
Reminds me of that poor company, Bleem, that died when sony sued them to oblivion with their Playstation emulator.
In germany, they are null and void. Why?
Because the "buyer" had no chance to read it BEFORE he bought the software. Thus, the courts ruled, that any addition to the contract that you get to see after the purchase is just a fluffy fantasy and can be ignored.
That seems to be a much saner approach then letting some marketing-guy have his go with anything he can dream up to write.
If you buy your PC's hardware, do you sign a 10-page-document telling you what to do and not to do with it? What about when you buy a cupboard, a knife or anything else? Why is it suddenly acceptable to sign something like that for software?
I imagine Apple aren't too worried, because when you think about it in simple terms, if you want to buy something like an Apple, there is a very good company in Cupertino that makes Apples, happens to be called Apples, and has very nice Apple Stores that you can go into to buy them, talk to other people who like Apples, get advice and technical support, and things are quite simple.
Also, if your Mac plays up in a funny way, you can take it into the Apple store and they will be able to ask around the clever people at Apple who know these things and see if there is a decent solution.
Problem is, if you psystar machine plays up, the best you can do is take it to somebody called Bob down the road who can have a go, but the trouble is that there will always be interesting software/hardware conflicts floating around somewhere that are basically impossible to reproduce on a real Mac, because Apple did a good enough job of software/hardware integration. So you can't even reproduce the spurious problems on a real Mac take it into the Apple store and ask around.
Now, if your time is worth anything, and you value it, and you want something that runs Mac OS X properly, it pays to buy a Mac that Apple make.
Apple, however, can simply watch what psystar do, make interesting modifications that make problems in funny places on the psystar machine, but not on a Mac, because the software guys can go and talk to the hardware guys over a coffee in the Apple cafe. And they can also give there legal team some interesting legal exercise by throwing a few lawyers at psystar and seeing what happens.
I wonder if psystar have thought of this yet???
John_Chalisque
I was going to post a rebuttal but this has to be a troll. I refuse to believe that anyone is this retarded.
Brain surgery - it's not rocket science!
What I find funny is, how people are complaining about Apple making it impossible to run MacOS on "normal" PCs...
Apple does not do anything like that! ...
...Who is it that prevents anything? Apple is not going to implement BIOS-Support in OS X, why should they? And the efforts of installing OS X on normal PCs are always to emulate an EFI...
there is nothing prevented, Macs are just no standard PCs...
read: /System/Library/Extensions/Dont Steal Mac OS X.kext/LICENCE:
Copyright (c) 2006,2009 Apple Inc. All rights reserved.
The purpose of this Apple software is to protect Apple copyrighted materials from unauthorized copying and use. You may not copy, modify, reverse engineer, publicly display, publicly perform, sublicense, transfer or redistribute this software, in whole or in part. If you have obtained a copy of this Apple software and do not have a valid license from Apple to use it, please immediately destroy or delete it from your computer.
To have fully working SnowLeo on Generic PC, one needs only:
1. boot sw (like Chameleon 2 RC3, PC-EFI 10.5 or similar)
2. Custom modified DSDT table to represent hardware properly (because BIOS is usually crap and not following ACPI specification, and Apple have own version implemented)
3. fakesmc.kext
4. custom made smbios.plist
5. (optional) Voodoo*.kext for multi-scroll trackpad, audio (if DSDT HDA patch is not working)
All of above mentioned is FOSS. And looks like PsyStar is borrowing from other people work, without giving them any credit. This is shameful.
IMHO, making proper DSDT.aml file is most important thing for successful Hackintosh build.
Without DSDT, one will need a lot of otherwise unneeded hacked kexts. For most popular motherboards, good and hard working people made DSDT already and they are sharing they work with everyone.
I wasn't so lucky, so i made one for my MSI laptop (running 10.6.1) ;>
P.S. Pls, excuse my bad english.
Getting behind Psystar is Pointless. What's the main argument against Macs? "I can't build whatever custom machine I want." Well if you don't build to the specs the Psystar machines have issues. The other argument is the fossilized argument that Macs are too expensive and probably overpriced. There are arguments for and against them being overpriced so that argument is a wash it's more about them servicing the low end market which they have always avoided. My ex business partner tried to save a buck. I needed a Mac Pro for editing. I was using a desktop Intel Mac but it was maxed out and it couldn't keep up. He insisted he knew some one that said they could build a Mac clone that was faster than "any" Mac. Well I let him order it and I expected the worst but gave it a chance. The thing was buggy and ran half as fast as my Intel iMac. It was half the price of the Mac Pro I needed but it wasn't half as good as an Intel iMac that was around the same price. He returned it and got a Mac Pro which ran like a champ. Moral of the story if you need a Mac then buy a Mac. If you don't and you are offended with the Apple business model buy a PC. There are an ocean of options out there including home built. I've got lots of issues with Apple and I'm hardly a fan but Psystar isn't striking a blow for freedom they are trying to leech off Apple. They built up a solid brand name and now Psystar wants some reflected glory to sell cheap knock offs. Apple tried letting another company clone and it was a royal headache and not profitable so they cut them off. The whole argument does seem pointless. Should Porsche be forced to sell bodies to a competitor who installs cheap under powered engines and poor suspensions and sell them as Porsches? A customer is going to be wildly unimpressed and it'll likely reflect back on Porsche. Apple wants quality control and their OS is not written as a commercial standalone product. Just look at the last upgrades. Microsoft is selling theirs for nearly 10X as much, I just priced out Windows 7 and had my breath taken away. Apple sells the Snow Leopard upgrade for about the price of a tank of gas. Can you see a sizable profit margin in them just selling OSs? Or would you be happier to have them just up their OS upgrade price ten fold? Even their full copy is cheap because even it is considered an upgrade since it's meant to go into a machine that's already licensed.
Does anybody know how to install/use RebelEFI from USB-Stick?
dd if=rebel.iso of=/dev/disk# does not make it bootable for me.
works with vmware. but it does need a tiny bit of h4x0ring :)
nah just joking. any ph00l with google should be able to do it.
I don't get it. Why not just buy a mac?
Seems like a lot of unnecessary effort to achieve something that is less than Windows on a PC or OSX on a Mac.
Indeed, the new Dell M610's in my blade centre have EFI, perhaps I should try installing Snow Leopard and see if it works
"but unless you stick to relatively generic hardware, you will be disappointed"
HELLO.... you're sitting in a chair at 30,000ft traveling 500MPH....
http://vodpod.com/watch/1335606-louis-ck-everythings-amazing-nobodys-happy
I imagine Apple aren't too worried, because when you think about it in simple terms, if you want to buy something like an Apple, there is a very good company in Cupertino that makes Apples, happens to be called Apples, and has very nice Apple Stores that you can go into to buy them, talk to other people who like Apples, get advice and technical support, and things are quite simple.
The thing is apple just do not sell ordinary desktops, the choice of apple desktops is a SFF machine built with laptop parts and no expansion room, an all-in-one again with no expansion room, a very expensive workstation. Worse that very expensive workstation needs workstation ram and special graphics cards (more expense).
The rich and/or those who can convince the boss to pay will just bite the bullet and buy a mac pro.
The not so rich have the choice between buying or building a hackintosh or putting up with a machine that doesn't really meet thier demands.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
Quote from a devote Christian:
The Government, who regard Christianity as the unshakable foundation of the morals and moral code of the nation, attach the greatest value to friendly relations with the Holy See and are endeavouring to develop them.
-Adolf Hitler, in his speech to the Reichstag on 23 March 1933
It's a copy/paste troll, ive seen it pasted here several times a good while back
I know it's hard for the /. community to understand, but Apple isn't worried about hackers. It won't be more than one or two percent of the market, and you are, in any event, unintentional evangelizers for the brand anyway. What the Psystar suit is about is that Apple doesn't want a whole series of small industries making unauthorized, unlicensed clones. They would seem to have lost the first big battle, but they don't care about that. They care about crushing clone-makers. The great, great majority of users couldn't be bothered to worry about where to get wireless drivers and so on.
IANAMU
'We are trying to prove ourselves wrong as quickly as possible, because only in that way can we find progress.' RPF
I downloaded the ISO. Attempted to boot it under Sun
virtualbox.
Alas. All I get is a blinking underscore.
Third Career: Tree Farmer Second Career: Computer Geek First Career: Teacher, Outdoor Instructor, Photographer.
I'm running Leopard on an HP Mini 1010, which is a great pocketnotebook for running OS X.
Psystar does not pirate Mac OS X or "sell it cheap" - they do offer it at retail price.
OS X does not use installation authentication in the form of serial numbers and "phone home" unlocking of functionality.
Like it or not, Psystar's software allows you to install operating system software you paid for on hardware you paid for.
Sherwin Williams doesn't restrict their paint products to one kind of house, do they? You can paint anything you want with it.
If Apple is selling (licensing) the software separately from the computer (they never say you have to OWN a Mac to buy OS X) then they should not be able to restrict where you install it, as long as you pay for a license for each machine.
Apple is the Verizon of hardware manufacturers - their only motive for locking (bundling?) hardware and software is profit. Seems to be working - look at last quarter results.
Bundling was declared illegal when IBM did it, and since Apple sells OS X @ retail, I believe anyone who pays for it should be able to install it anywhere they like, as long as they buy a license for each machine.
Otherwise, Apple should only offer OS X pre-installed on their hardware, and force people to buy new computers to receive a new OS when it is released.
Ask Me About... The 80's!
Why are the atheists wearing ceremonial robes and hoods?
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
I don't share your belief, there are plenty of people in this world who are that retarded, but it is unlikely that any of them would be able to write that well.
all this might get more attention and developers for osx open source alternatives, such as gnustep, Objective C, Darwin, bonjour, etc. More importantly, I think the advance of OSX and Ubuntu provide some important examples for Linux/Open Source. More usability gets more users. When you're programming, it's tempting, and easier, to say "users have to learn more", instead of "the interface is hard to use, true".
Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/