maybe the obvious solution to a convicted pol that still serves is that he loses seniority? Even if 2/3'rds cant be mustered to get them out, at least they'll be neutered:)
It's probably splitting hairs, but though BOTH parties are corruptible, it's more the case of individuals in each who have become corrupted.
In mega's note, GHWB continued the reagan legacy of fighting in central america using the spoils of cocaine shipped to the US using military/cia assets. The fact that those payloads happened to be dropped in AK cornfields, complete w/payoffs to locals, while clinton was gov was a serendipitous mixing of one's chocolate with another's peanut butter!
Bad as it is, the current financial crisis is just the tip of the iceberg. Wait until the debt crows come home to roost.
We taxpayers are carrying trillions of dollars in debt. Because of this administration we owe, we owe, we owe and when hyperinflation sets in, its off to hell we go...
Sad thing is, like the banking fiasco, this was not because of stupidity or carelessness, but willful intention. We in America and our generations to come have been reduced to a 3rd world country not unlike those we've (proxy for elite multi-nationals) exploited.
I've read most all the posts to this thread and have yet to find anyone positing that this entire fiasco was allowed to happen because, in the end, those in the know were fully aware of what would happen and either didn't care, or worse, wanted it to happen knowing they would side-step the fallout.
Like the S-n-L crimes, there will be some scape-goats, but most of those who plundered will emerge unscathed. We're talking about the 1%'ers here. Hell, even the 5%'ers won't be leaping from their offices any time soon. They and their wealth are safely ensconced.
Considering that the contributions to both political parties from financial sector account for 30% (roughly 100 million to obama and mccain each) can we really expect anything more than a dog-n-pony show instead of putting these criminals in the dock?
And how is what's happening to us 'joe the plumber'(s) any different from what was foisted on S. American countries or worse, S. Asian countries in the 80s and 90s?
As cited repeatedly in Naiomi Klein's book, this is just another instance of "Disaster Capitalism" that the elites will profit from while the pundits scratch their heads and the likes of Jeffery Sachs back-steps over.
It may be stating the obviously known, but the loans were not made for the benefit of low-income families to own their own homes. It was made to keep the economy propped up through the construction and real-estate trades. The financiers didn't care whether a home owner defaulted as they were safe from risk. They just wanted to make sure that their stocks in Home Depot, Lowe's, etc.. and the trade in products from China continued to rise.
Trade imbalances had more to do with the fall than defaulting ever did.
Oh, you and yours can just stuff it (your tax opinion) where the sun dont shine. You cannot discuss taxation (as truth, opinion or fact) w/out addressing the revenues that are taxed. The FACTS there are that the rich have been given hand-outs and a meal-ticket at the expense of everyone else. This increasing disparity is a FACT. It is the cause of all the resentment, not taxation, but earnings.
As for taxes, federal taxation should be abolished and re-applied solely to capital gains. (my.02)
I guess that's why they're called conservatives:) But the real question is whether they are a product of their upbringing. (1st response: say NO! you can always change you mind; though you probably wont)
Conservatives are the spear of business, which seeks stability.
It may be bundled in with tradition and history, high-minded ideals; but is nonetheless focused on preservation of status-quo.
Liberals, progressives, et.al. I find to be less change-averse. They are willing to believe that today's ideals are tommorrows' pragmatic solutions. It gives their minds an elasticity that conservative will never have because they are better equipped in dealing w/the chaos that ensues.
Our government is using the *AA's in a blatant power-grab. The past 10 years have seen the State overpowering it's citizens in unprecedented levels. (despite everything these days seeming to be at unprecedented levels).
Having IP laws does nothing more than give the State more power to snoop and build more lists. They have already given themselves the ability to invade one's home without warrant, to detain citizens w/disregard for constitutional rights, to take property from citizens w/out due cause.
These laws are just setting the stage, it's going to get a lot worse.
Well, it looks awfully similar to the examples cited in 'disaster capitalism' by Naomi Klein, combined with the cited examples of "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" (Perkins).
what the 'masters of disasters' (MODs) have done world-wide they are now doing domestically here at home.
I suspect it will take all of one week to effect, beginning with a massive devaluation of our currency. The 5%'ers are taking to their lifeboats.
I also suspect that it's been in the works now for 8 (or more) years; what with privatization of prisons, of the military, the build-up of State Police facilities and integration into DHS, the compiling of enemies' lists and the transference of real wealth.
The MODs have seen the writing on the wall for some time and their goal has all along been to keep us blind and ignorant to their machinations.
We are heading for a major collapse, by which time they will be long gone...
I'm not explaining myself nearly as well as from where I heard it, but I'd say it depends on how society cares to define profit. Under a capitalistic system, profit (primarily) arises from scarcity: the less there is of something the more yours is worth. Is that the best measure of a nations' health? I doubt it. I don't believe everyone would like to see your definition of profit because it places money over people, and FWIW, nations that are more equitable, e.g. socialist, are not all failures; only by your, narrow, definition and those of the 'haves' who are called upon to relinquish some (of their) wealth:)
And for those who dont want to court the full wrath of the IRS, they could simply withhold their taxes for as long as they can (paying only the monthly interest penalty) soas to bankrupt the treasury.
It would only take about 6 months of holding back payments and the interest charges would be extremely minimal.
Me, I'm a right-wing anarcho, left-wing enviro-proggy who, like you, will be giving McCain my vote as well. Things just aren't bad enough in this country to get the pitchforks out into the streets.
Even w/the collapse of Wall Street, 8 years of scandals, pork-laden Defense budgets to make shit that never sees the light of day, laws that create more and more criminals to take away their power to vote; well, the public@large still prefers Sports and American Idol!
Maybe after 4 more years of this shit rolling downhill the people will finally say "enough" and throw em all out. Literally!
Can't much speak to religious zealotry, except to say that the Evangelists are little different, historically or in modern times (e.g.400 years of terror in western europe)
Your personal experiences notwithstanding, is the Tunis experience any worse than the U.S carpet bombing Vietnam or Cambodia, littering bombies that rend limbs to this day?
Modern day Iran has a secular bent, as does Pakistan, as did Iraq before we screwed things up, as is our bent. U.S foreign policy has never been intended to stabilize those countries (territories). In fact, it has been just the opposite, to keep our own economic interests stabilized. This is "democracy" at the point of a gun. How would you react if it was in your backyard?
If we could somehow mind our own business, those countries citizens would stand a much better chance in fending off the religious wing-nuts on their own. The same could probably be said historically: that the crusades and western pressure threw gas on the Islamic fire in arabia.
Unfortunately, elites and western corporatism either corrupts or destroys and the blow-back has made the world a sorry place for the rest of use
OK - i take back calling you an asshat. Your earlier point about ppl being agast that the police acted the way they did is somewhat on point. Whether the react or over-react is a matter of opinion. Protesting is all about making a statement and that does infringe on others.
That said, your view of anarchists is somewhat skewed. They/we are not all advocates of violence and/or against free speech. One can disrupt non-violently, like a crowd that sits in the road and blocks traffic. Also, anarchists should not be the label casually applied to anyone who protests. Anarchy (US style) has its roots (deep roots) in libertarianism and ones' basic right to survive. Barry Goldwaters' speech writer is a famous anarchist.
Anarchists are not what the media portrays them to be and not all protesters are anarchists; though I applaud what they are doing.
First, people shouldn't bother protesting unless they're prepared to get arrested; otherwise, they are wasting their time. The whole point of protesting is to stop the machine, shut down the city, etc. Not because of the effect it has on traffic but to clog up the jails and courts. So, it makes no sense for someone to attend a rally as a protester and complain that they got detained. That's supposed to be the point!
That said, you're a jerk. The core basis of the USA is protest! All the best things this country represents has come about as a result of protest; against slavery, sufferage, labor, the list goes on and on; even to the point of Kentucky coalminers and their wives blocking roads with their pickup truck and shotguns.
And since when was our country (our government ) civilized? FWIW, it was the arrest and detention of 6,000 ppl in D.C. in 1971 that stopped U.S. involvement in Vietnam and prevented Nixon/Kissinger from going with the nuclear option.
Get your head screwed on right with an attitude adjustment!
Initial comment: "... the current tax system FAVORS the rich. Tell me, how the fuck is THAT fair? Giving even more money to the rich just because they're rich?" Which, on its face, is accurate. The IRS allows it to be gamed, on offshores and other loopholes for ppl with considerable investments.
You chose to construe or otherwise assert that the act of taxation cannot, in fact, give "even more money to the rich", or to anyone at all, because the act of "paying" is contradictory to receiving. But your initial sentence asks: "How is the government "giving even more money to the rich?""
My response is that not having to pay, being afforded or otherwise given a way to avoid payments,
equates to the same thing as any rebate, prebate, or other refunding mechanism. You dont have to fixate on the literal, the actual exchange of payments or the semantics of the parent's thread, its effectively has the same results.
AND, despite your noting that its "Not tariffs, not government contracts, not immigration, not government regulation, not bailouts, not legislation", all of the above (and more) are the central actors in determining who pays, for what, who gets greased, who gets the shaft.
Besides, taxes were intended to be only on capital gains. Considering all the sacrifice in the face of the inequity this un-level playing field has wrought; I'd posit that all the trillions invested in government by the people during the last century has been largely squandered, if not stolen.
P.S. I know it's much worse in other corners of the world, that life is not fair, that we have to play the hand we're dealt and do our best to leave things better off than not.
I'm just really tired of people shitting in other's backyards instead of owning (and being good stewards of) their own crap.
I"m not an obama fan and dont believe in income taxes at all, but my understanding is that BOBama plan affects those making over 200K/yr. For the rest of the details you provide, if correct, only reinforces my distaste for the political system in its entirety, dems notwithstanding.
"You simply don't fix anything by tearing down the successful people. You elevate the unsuccessful people. " I would agree that a rising lake raises all boats, but ask yourself first how those successful people got that way. On merit alone? Fine. As part of the old-boy network? Not-so-fine; because their gameplan is zero-sum; they actively keep the outsiders 'unsuccessful'. I believe strongly in opportunity for success and those who have succeeded honestly have my undying respect. Unfortunately, at the top of the corporate pyramid, i suspect that they are the exception more than the rule.
"All you have done is stopped letting the rich get rich. It is the essence of greed and envy." If the rich get rich at your expense its analogous to the them exercising their freedoms at the cost of yours. Envy and green are not symbiotic. Their actions reflect their greed, not mine. I dont what what they have and I dont envy them. I just want to be able to eke out my 'small footprint', low-impact life, w/out having to support their egregious needs.
"The real fix is to ignore the happy people and undo whatever the problem is making you or your friend unhappy." Said another way: the real fix is to address the problems that face the majority of society; and, FWIW, i agree completely with the rest of your para. But employment opportunities (job security ), better services, better education, greater wages and efficiencies, that's often what those in power are trying to prevent from happening. As i stated in an earlier post, they see it as zero-sum; more for the masses equates to less for them. And it's probably true, and its been a long time in comming. Just like the re-distribution of taking place in S.America; it took decades for the corruption to peak and become so bad that the masses (meaning the rest of us) got up off their asses.
"As for CEO's getting large salaries,..." What they make relative to product price is irrelevant, as remarked by
by micheas (231635) Alter Relationship on Monday August 25, @05:43AM (#24734471)
What is relevant is the lavishness slavered over them, even when they suck at their job. Golden parachutes, outrageous options that guarantee short-term profit and long-term failure. It contributes to the appearance of worth, not worth itself.
You know, i hate generalizing. There are plenty of managers who are worth every penny of what they get paid. Not because they work harder than some poor soul, but because they have the skills and knowledge to lead. I don't underestimate that one bit. Do a google search on "Ray Anderson", now there is someone I have come to admire.
But many/most managers in the corridors of power just live a charade; A-type cheerleaders who'll do anything to hide their incompetences w/in the folds of the good-ol-boy team, suborning doing the 'right thing' to loyalties.
"How about the taxes these CEOs already pay on their income?" Clue: they pay a whole lot less, percentage-wise, than the rest of us. Why? Are my hard-earned dollars less meaningfull than theirs? And, FWIW (again), they get theirs for what or who they know. they dont work harder
than anyone else. Shit, look at our commander-in-chief: more vacation-time and more time away from the white-house than any other president in history. Failed at one business after another, a spoiled cheer-leading bully of the priv class who's going to continue to 'succeed' in the corporate world upon leaving office. Besides birthright, what entitles dubya to such a life? It happens to be the same for a lot of the elites. The right schools, the right frats and clubs, the right con
are you ignorant or just trying to start a flame? "How is the government "giving even more money to the rich?"" What hole have you been living in? Even more money means that, through sweetheart deals, they get even MORE than they were getting (stealing) under current circumstances. How about the new FCC laws deregulating news organizations - made clearchannel a bundle How about the lack of oversight (through intentional lobbying efforts) of the FDA so that some big Pharma wont have to recall that heparin mess? - bet that got the CEO a bonus! How about the bear/sterns bailout - 30billion of our dollars to prop up wall street - nice How about the ramming of NAFTA down everyone's throats - made fortunes for the machiladora slave-trade How about ------ you know what --- fuck it! Its all about the revolving door that has made government indistinguishable from big business. Laws passed that enrich a few at the expense of the many. If you havent gotten that by now, after 8 years of excesses that's embarrassed even the most staunch conservatives, you never will.
WTF world do you live in? Real wages for me and most people i know
have not gone up in over a decade.
So, how do you define poor? Do you mean welfare poor, as in no income at all? Or working poor, living from paycheck to paycheck?
In 2008, i made 50K. In 1998 i made the same thing. My wife is an "administrative assistant" who earns 1/2 what i make. Secretaries' wages, like most 'workers' are stagnant.
My wife and I live mostly hand to mouth, paycheck to paycheck.
Are we poor? assuredly not, compared to people forced to use payday loans; but we sure feel poor! We don't jet to aspen in the winter to hit the slopes, nor can we drop a few grand to replace our 10yr old car because our prop taxes are due.
"There is no one paying taxes that is choosing between eating and heat or shelter or anything unless they blew their money on something else." Go Fuck yourself! The taxes i paid out this year, withheld from my paychecks each week, could have offset the $800 i just spend on cordwood, or could have been spent
fixing teeth, a car, or anything else on my repair list.
Sad to say, we're one serious emergency away from calamity.
Sure, the rich pay more proportionally to the rest of us. Its also a FACT that they know how to game the system, shelter their income from the IRS in order to pay less,
if anything at all. Its also a FACT that the richest 10% have benefited from the greatest x-fer of wealth during this last decade; the elites have gotten phenomenomally richer while the rest of us have pretty much stagnated.
The CEO's, board directors, institutional investors, lobbyists, have made a killing during the republican reign; even when the organizations they lead have failed miserably. Worse than their failure is their success! The success of mercenary biz like blackwater, triple canopy, etc.. is at the detriment of our armed forces; the successes of privatizing corrections (CCA) is the societal cost of their lobbying influence in creating more criminals to profit off of.
Where is our (the 90% rest of us) money? The Fed is a private institution, run by the elites of the banking industry. Its' chairs seem to be perpetually reminding us how sound the economy looks; until the music stops.
"...the consumers do when they buy the products." Do you mean the 1 trillon in cc debt that 'push-consumerism', GWB's feel-good and go
shop-till-you-drop message, propping up of the economy, that's largely responsible for having to bail out bearsterns, freddymac, and all the other financial institutions who've yet to announce their failures, on the taxpayers' dime; w/out holding anyone accountable.? Oh yea, now we propose tax-free holidays to stimulate sales.
So, sumdumass, if this is how life looks for a couple of (decently educated) middle-class folks, I can't imagine how life feels for the chump working two, or three, minimum-wage jobs.
"The Poor people don't pay taxes. In fact, they often get more back then they ever thought of paying in."
Your are not only sumdumass, but an asshat if you really believe that. The Poor pay just like the rest of us! The wage-slave pays, the illegal migrants pay, Everyone who works pays, or the IRS comes a-knocking.
Do you think that some CEO who makes a few million (despite trashing his company) works harder than some single parent holding down more than one (often sweaty, lowly) job? What is it that should make the very rich exempt from paying, from getting a pass?
Theft is theft by any other name. And greed factors larger for those who have more. The FACT that the system caters to and coddles them is only a sign of how borked it is. The costs associated with common criminality pales in comparison to the damages created by White-collar crime. If white-collar criminals were put in the dock and held accountable we wouldn't even be having this discussion because there would be plenty of $ to go around and taxes would not be as much of a burden on the rest of us.
Unless you are one of those usual suspects, stop being their apologist and lackey.
Everyone's put the emphasis on hands-on experience as the determinator of a successful office-holder w/out addressing the derivative of that experience, which is knowing where the skeletons are and how to maximize them.
This is what tenure can deliver. For BClinton, as AK gov, it was exercising control over an extremely corrupt State government (including Rose et.al.) which, in time, lead to the origins of his relations w/ GHWB (while GHWB was CIA director, then VP, and using Mena, AK as a support base for the Contras).
The laundering that resulted from Mena, the roles played by the Gov's office in spreading the wealth: OTJ!
That is what BObama (thankfully) lacks (on can only hope) and what Biden may have to offer.
Sorry, but you and anyone who continually asserts that driving is a priv is incorrect.
Driving anything: a motor vehicle, a horse-drawn cart, or in the case of my 80YO neighbor, a lawn tractor w/his wife riding behind in the leaf trailer, is a RIGHT. Just because our society is 'modern', it should have no bearing on one's right of conveyance on a public thoroughfare, paid for with their tax dollars.
It is a right because, even moreso than in the past, nearly everyone depends on their ability
to get from point A to point B in order to eke out a living and survive.
If it was not a right, but in fact just a priv, then there would not be so many drivers who are still on the road after (or while) having their license suspended; not just once or twice, but a dozen of times or more. Even the courts recognize that they cannot prevent people from getting to/from a job, or the grocery store, or where-ever necessary to survive.
If the courts actually upheld their laws rigorously, then the backlash would lead to the inevitable proof that Motor Vehicle Laws are in fact unconstitutional; not 'fact' based, are non-uniform, are not safety-based, are arbitrary and predjudicial, and are not equally applied.
Its a well-known fact that the State gets away with their shenanigans because so few people contest their citations. Those who do, know that they have >50% of beating the ticket. Hell, a $100 ticket can have great entertainment value. Plead not-guilty, stall for continuances as long as possible, harangue the courts w/every right you have remaining, have fun cross-examining the citing officer; challenge the law, the cops, the courts. Then appeal after you've been found guilty. Rinse and repeat. Invite your friends to the courthouse. After awhile you get a rep for costing the court way more than the price of the ticket.
Most cops dont like having to stop people for bullshit laws. Speeding, generally, is one of them. Specially if you are not a clear and present danger to anyone on the road. Specially if after the routing check they find nothing outstanding.
When you get stopped, before being cited (and being excessively polite) inform the cop that you'll fight the citation and if you beat the speeding ticket, that you'll be calling him as a witness for your defense in every subsequent court case you get. After awhile, the cops stop showing up for your court date.
Driving is a RIGHT. Driving safe is your RESPONSIBILITY. If you dont cause accidents then what you do (and how you do it) should be your business. If you do cause an accident then you should fully PAY the damages (screw no-fault) and if it means you risk losing everything to your bad judgement then so be it. You become the example for others to act more responsibly.
Current motor vehicle laws, defined under the priv meme, actually minimizes personal ACCOUNTABILITY rather than increasing it, by spreading 'percieved' risks among everyone it lessens the actual risk for those who cause damages (at any speed, in any vehicle) Bad drivers are now the law-breakers not the damage-causers, even though their breaking the law may have had no consequences for anyone, including themselves.
what this will do is provide probable cause, giving the cops authority to stop and detain. I'm sure that it will fail some arrests as being pre-textual if the stop results in something other than a motor vehicle citation. But its a way for the LEA camel to insert its nose into the tents of our lives another inch or two.
Speeding does not kill, loss of control kills; at any speed. Going fast(er) can just make it worse; but a motor vehicle can kill at 15MPH as easily as at 65MPH.
Most people ignore speed limits. Cops ignore speed limits. Speed and safety are relative terms and ambigous (sp) at best. Most posted speed limits are generally lower to account for winter conditions.
Most people who get cited for speeding are not the ones who have accidents;
ergo, its a racket that taxes those who drive the most, commuters who know the roads they drive
like the back of their hands. Its a scam that directly ties the points system into a money-maker for the insurance companies (dont get me started).
>people that do this stuff are breaking rules. People who choose to speed are exercising their own judgement over that of the State. Whether they are correct in their assessment remains to be seen as to whether it results in injury or damages. You don't break any rules? How about the broken stop light at 2AM? when you're the only car in sight? Or the pedestrian sign saying 'do not cross' when there's nobody on the road but yourself and you could probably cross the street blindfolded and be safe? I would posit that if you never break any (of the ever-growing list of) rules, then you are letting the State do your thinking for you and you have joined the sheeple.
Slashdot Mirror
maybe the obvious solution to a convicted pol that still serves is
that he loses seniority? Even if 2/3'rds cant be mustered to
get them out, at least they'll be neutered:)
It's probably splitting hairs, but though BOTH parties are
corruptible, it's more the case of individuals in each
who have become corrupted.
In mega's note, GHWB continued the reagan legacy of fighting
in central america using the spoils of cocaine shipped to the US
using military/cia assets.
The fact that those payloads happened to be dropped in
AK cornfields, complete w/payoffs to locals, while clinton
was gov was a serendipitous mixing of one's chocolate with
another's peanut butter!
Talk about strange bedfellows:)
Bad as it is, the current financial crisis is just the
tip of the iceberg. Wait until the debt crows come
home to roost.
We taxpayers are carrying trillions of dollars in debt.
Because of this administration we owe, we owe, we owe
and when hyperinflation sets in, its off to hell we go...
Sad thing is, like the banking fiasco, this was not because
of stupidity or carelessness, but willful intention.
We in America and our generations to come have been
reduced to a 3rd world country not unlike those we've
(proxy for elite multi-nationals) exploited.
I've read most all the posts to this thread and have yet to find anyone positing that this entire fiasco was
allowed to happen because, in the end, those in the know were fully aware of what would happen and either
didn't care, or worse, wanted it to happen knowing they would side-step the fallout.
Like the S-n-L crimes, there will be some scape-goats, but most of those who plundered will emerge
unscathed. We're talking about the 1%'ers here. Hell, even the 5%'ers won't be leaping from their offices
any time soon. They and their wealth are safely ensconced.
Considering that the contributions to both political parties from financial sector account for 30% (roughly
100 million to obama and mccain each) can we really expect anything more than a dog-n-pony show instead of putting
these criminals in the dock?
And how is what's happening to us 'joe the plumber'(s) any different from what was foisted on S. American countries
or worse, S. Asian countries in the 80s and 90s?
As cited repeatedly in Naiomi Klein's book, this is just another instance of "Disaster Capitalism" that
the elites will profit from while the pundits scratch their heads and the likes of Jeffery Sachs back-steps over.
(Tip of the hat to Chalmers Johnson)
"As soon as the elections are complete, there will be criminal investigations into the fraud and illegal practices that lead to the financial crisis."
Not when both parties and the president elect are getting more than 30% of contributions from the financial sector. Expect a Dog-n-Pony show at best.
It may be stating the obviously known, but the loans were not made
for the benefit of low-income families to own their own homes.
It was made to keep the economy propped up through the construction
and real-estate trades.
The financiers didn't care whether a home owner defaulted as they
were safe from risk. They just wanted to make sure that
their stocks in Home Depot, Lowe's, etc.. and the trade in products
from China continued to rise.
Trade imbalances had more to do with the fall than defaulting
ever did.
Oh, you and yours can just stuff it (your tax opinion) where the sun dont shine.
You cannot discuss taxation (as truth, opinion or fact) w/out addressing the revenues
that are taxed.
The FACTS there are that the rich have been given hand-outs and a meal-ticket at the
expense of everyone else. This increasing disparity is a FACT. It is the cause
of all the resentment, not taxation, but earnings.
As for taxes, federal taxation should be abolished and re-applied solely to capital .02)
gains. (my
You, sir, can take a flying leap
I guess that's why they're called conservatives:)
But the real question is whether they are a product of their upbringing.
(1st response: say NO! you can always change you mind; though you
probably wont)
Conservatives are the spear of business, which seeks stability.
It may be bundled in with tradition and history, high-minded
ideals; but is nonetheless focused on preservation of status-quo.
Liberals, progressives, et.al. I find to be less change-averse.
They are willing to believe that today's ideals are tommorrows'
pragmatic solutions. It gives their minds an elasticity that
conservative will never have because they are better equipped in
dealing w/the chaos that ensues.
Our government is using the *AA's in a blatant power-grab. The past 10 years have
seen the State overpowering it's citizens in unprecedented levels.
(despite everything these days seeming to be at unprecedented levels).
Having IP laws does nothing more than give the State more power to snoop and build
more lists. They have already given themselves the ability to invade one's home
without warrant, to detain citizens w/disregard for constitutional rights,
to take property from citizens w/out due cause.
These laws are just setting the stage, it's going to get a lot worse.
Well, it looks awfully similar to the examples cited in 'disaster capitalism' by Naomi Klein, combined with the cited examples of "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" (Perkins).
what the 'masters of disasters' (MODs) have done world-wide they are now doing domestically here at home.
I suspect it will take all of one week to effect, beginning with a massive
devaluation of our currency. The 5%'ers are taking to their lifeboats.
I also suspect that it's been in the works now for 8 (or more) years; what with privatization of prisons, of the military, the build-up of State Police facilities and
integration into DHS, the compiling of enemies' lists and the transference of real
wealth.
The MODs have seen the writing on the wall for some time and their goal has all
along been to keep us blind and ignorant to their machinations.
We are heading for a major collapse, by which time they will be long gone...
I'm not explaining myself nearly as well as from where I heard it, but
I'd say it depends on how society cares to define profit. Under a
capitalistic system, profit (primarily) arises from scarcity: the less there
is of something the more yours is worth.
Is that the best measure of a nations' health? I doubt it.
I don't believe everyone would like to see your definition of profit because
it places money over people, and FWIW, nations that are more equitable,
e.g. socialist, are not all failures; only by your, narrow, definition
and those of the 'haves' who are called upon to relinquish some (of their)
wealth:)
Hear, hear!
And for those who dont want to court the full wrath of the IRS, they could simply
withhold their taxes for as long as they can (paying only the monthly interest penalty)
soas to bankrupt the treasury.
It would only take about 6 months of holding back payments and the interest
charges would be extremely minimal.
Me, I'm a right-wing anarcho, left-wing enviro-proggy who, like you, will be giving McCain my vote as well. Things just aren't bad enough in this
country to get the pitchforks out into the streets.
Even w/the collapse of Wall Street, 8 years of scandals, pork-laden Defense budgets to make shit that never sees the light of day,
laws that create more and more criminals to take away their power to vote;
well, the public@large still prefers Sports and American Idol!
Maybe after 4 more years of this shit rolling downhill the people will
finally say "enough" and throw em all out. Literally!
God Bless Amerika
Can't much speak to religious zealotry, except to say that the Evangelists are little different, historically or in modern times (e.g.400 years of terror in western europe)
Your personal experiences notwithstanding, is the Tunis experience any worse than the U.S carpet bombing Vietnam or Cambodia, littering bombies
that rend limbs to this day?
Modern day Iran has a secular bent, as does Pakistan, as did Iraq before
we screwed things up, as is our bent. U.S foreign policy has never
been intended to stabilize those countries (territories). In fact,
it has been just the opposite, to keep our own economic interests stabilized.
This is "democracy" at the point of a gun. How would you react if it
was in your backyard?
If we could somehow mind our own business, those countries citizens
would stand a much better chance in fending off the religious wing-nuts
on their own. The same could probably be said historically: that
the crusades and western pressure threw gas on the Islamic fire in
arabia.
Unfortunately, elites and western corporatism either corrupts or destroys and the blow-back has made the world a sorry place for the rest of use
my .02
OK - i take back calling you an asshat. Your earlier point about ppl being agast that the police acted the way they did is somewhat
on point. Whether the react or over-react is a matter of opinion. Protesting is all about making a statement and that
does infringe on others.
That said, your view of anarchists is somewhat skewed. They/we are not all advocates of violence and/or against free speech.
One can disrupt non-violently, like a crowd that sits in the road and blocks traffic. Also, anarchists should not be the
label casually applied to anyone who protests. Anarchy (US style) has its roots (deep roots) in libertarianism and ones' basic
right to survive. Barry Goldwaters' speech writer is a famous anarchist.
Anarchists are not what the media portrays them to be and not all protesters are anarchists; though I applaud what they are
doing.
First, people shouldn't bother protesting unless they're prepared to get arrested; otherwise, they are wasting their time.
The whole point of protesting is to stop the machine, shut down the city, etc. Not because of the effect it has on traffic
but to clog up the jails and courts. So, it makes no sense for someone to attend a rally as a protester and complain
that they got detained. That's supposed to be the point!
That said, you're a jerk. The core basis of the USA is protest! All the best things this country represents has
come about as a result of protest; against slavery, sufferage, labor, the list goes on and on; even to the point
of Kentucky coalminers and their wives blocking roads with their pickup truck and shotguns.
And since when was our country (our government ) civilized?
FWIW, it was the arrest and detention of 6,000 ppl in D.C. in 1971 that stopped U.S. involvement in Vietnam and prevented
Nixon/Kissinger from going with the nuclear option.
Get your head screwed on right with an attitude adjustment!
Obama is not my man and wont get my vote, but McCain will lose this election by the greatest landslide since
Barry Goldwater.
Initial comment:
"... the current tax system FAVORS the rich. Tell me, how the fuck is THAT fair? Giving even more money to the rich just because they're rich?"
Which, on its face, is accurate. The IRS allows it to be gamed, on offshores and other loopholes
for ppl with considerable investments.
You chose to construe or otherwise assert that the act of taxation cannot, in fact, give "even more money
to the rich", or to anyone at all, because the act of "paying" is contradictory to receiving.
But your initial sentence asks:
"How is the government "giving even more money to the rich?""
My response is that not having to pay, being afforded or otherwise given a way to avoid payments,
equates to the same thing as any rebate, prebate, or other refunding mechanism.
You dont have to fixate on the literal, the actual exchange of payments or the semantics of
the parent's thread, its effectively has the same results.
AND, despite your noting that its "Not tariffs, not government contracts, not immigration, not government regulation, not bailouts, not legislation", all of the above (and more) are the central actors in
determining who pays, for what, who gets greased, who gets the shaft.
Besides, taxes were intended to be only on capital gains. Considering all the sacrifice in the face
of the inequity this un-level playing field has wrought; I'd posit that all the trillions invested in
government by the people during the last century has been largely squandered, if not stolen.
P.S. I know it's much worse in other corners of the world, that life is not fair, that we have to
play the hand we're dealt and do our best to leave things better off than not.
I'm just really tired of people shitting in other's backyards instead of owning (and being
good stewards of) their own crap.
being given
I"m not an obama fan and dont believe in income taxes at all, but my understanding is that BOBama
plan affects those making over 200K/yr. For the rest of the details you provide, if correct, only
reinforces my distaste for the political system in its entirety, dems notwithstanding.
"You simply don't fix anything by tearing down the successful people. You elevate the unsuccessful people. "
I would agree that a rising lake raises all boats, but ask yourself first how those successful
people got that way. On merit alone? Fine. As part of the old-boy network? Not-so-fine; because
their gameplan is zero-sum; they actively keep the outsiders 'unsuccessful'.
I believe strongly in opportunity for success and those who have succeeded honestly have my
undying respect. Unfortunately, at the top of the corporate pyramid, i suspect that they are
the exception more than the rule.
"All you have done is stopped letting the rich get rich. It is the essence of greed and envy."
If the rich get rich at your expense its analogous to the them exercising their freedoms at
the cost of yours. Envy and green are not symbiotic. Their actions reflect their greed, not mine.
I dont what what they have and I dont envy them. I just want to be able to eke out my
'small footprint', low-impact life, w/out having to support their egregious needs.
"The real fix is to ignore the happy people and undo whatever the problem is making you or your friend unhappy." Said another way: the real fix is to address the problems that face the
majority of society; and, FWIW, i agree completely with the rest of your para.
But employment opportunities (job security ), better services, better education,
greater wages and efficiencies, that's often what those in power are trying to prevent from
happening. As i stated in an earlier post, they see it as zero-sum; more for the masses
equates to less for them. And it's probably true, and its been a long time in comming.
Just like the re-distribution of taking place in S.America; it took decades for the
corruption to peak and become so bad that the masses (meaning the rest of us) got up
off their asses.
"As for CEO's getting large salaries, ..."
What they make relative to product price is irrelevant, as remarked by
by micheas (231635) Alter Relationship on Monday August 25, @05:43AM (#24734471)
What is relevant is the lavishness slavered over them, even when they suck at their job.
Golden parachutes, outrageous options that guarantee short-term profit and long-term
failure. It contributes to the appearance of worth, not worth itself.
You know, i hate generalizing. There are plenty of managers who are worth every penny of
what they get paid. Not because they work harder than some poor soul, but because they
have the skills and knowledge to lead. I don't underestimate that one bit.
Do a google search on "Ray Anderson", now there is someone I have come to admire.
But many/most managers in the corridors of power just live a charade; A-type cheerleaders
who'll do anything to hide their incompetences w/in the folds of the good-ol-boy team,
suborning doing the 'right thing' to loyalties.
"How about the taxes these CEOs already pay on their income?"
Clue: they pay a whole lot less, percentage-wise, than the rest of us.
Why? Are my hard-earned dollars less meaningfull than theirs?
And, FWIW (again), they get theirs for what or who they know. they dont work harder
than anyone else. Shit, look at our commander-in-chief: more vacation-time and
more time away from the white-house than any other president in history.
Failed at one business after another, a spoiled cheer-leading bully of the priv class
who's going to continue to 'succeed' in the corporate world upon leaving office.
Besides birthright, what entitles dubya to such a life? It happens to be the same for
a lot of the elites. The right schools, the right frats and clubs, the right con
are you ignorant or just trying to start a flame?
"How is the government "giving even more money to the rich?""
What hole have you been living in?
Even more money means that, through sweetheart deals, they get even MORE than
they were getting (stealing) under current circumstances.
How about the new FCC laws deregulating news organizations - made clearchannel a bundle
How about the lack of oversight (through intentional lobbying efforts) of the FDA
so that some big Pharma wont have to recall that heparin mess? - bet that got the CEO a bonus!
How about the bear/sterns bailout - 30billion of our dollars to prop up wall street - nice
How about the ramming of NAFTA down everyone's throats - made fortunes for the
machiladora slave-trade
How about ------ you know what --- fuck it!
Its all about the revolving door that has made government indistinguishable from
big business. Laws passed that enrich a few at the expense of the many.
If you havent gotten that by now, after 8 years of excesses that's embarrassed
even the most staunch conservatives, you never will.
WTF world do you live in? Real wages for me and most people i know
have not gone up in over a decade.
So, how do you define poor? Do you mean welfare poor, as in no income at all?
Or working poor, living from paycheck to paycheck?
In 2008, i made 50K. In 1998 i made the same thing. My wife is an
"administrative assistant" who earns 1/2 what i make. Secretaries' wages,
like most 'workers' are stagnant.
My wife and I live mostly hand to mouth, paycheck to paycheck.
Are we poor? assuredly not, compared to people forced to use payday loans; but we
sure feel poor! We don't jet to aspen in the winter to hit the slopes, nor can
we drop a few grand to replace our 10yr old car because our prop taxes are due.
"There is no one paying taxes that is choosing between eating and heat or shelter or anything unless they blew their money on something else."
Go Fuck yourself! The taxes i paid out this year, withheld from my paychecks each
week, could have offset the $800 i just spend on cordwood, or could have been spent
fixing teeth, a car, or anything else on my repair list.
Sad to say, we're one serious emergency away from calamity.
Sure, the rich pay more proportionally to the rest of us. Its also a FACT that they
know how to game the system, shelter their income from the IRS in order to pay less,
if anything at all. Its also a FACT that the richest 10% have benefited from the
greatest x-fer of wealth during this last decade; the elites have gotten phenomenomally
richer while the rest of us have pretty much stagnated.
The CEO's, board directors, institutional investors, lobbyists, have made a killing
during the republican reign; even when the organizations they lead have failed
miserably. Worse than their failure is their success! The success of mercenary
biz like blackwater, triple canopy, etc.. is at the detriment of our armed forces;
the successes of privatizing corrections (CCA) is the societal cost of their
lobbying influence in creating more criminals to profit off of.
Where is our (the 90% rest of us) money? The Fed is a private institution, run
by the elites of the banking industry. Its' chairs seem to be perpetually
reminding us how sound the economy looks; until the music stops.
"...the consumers do when they buy the products."
Do you mean the 1 trillon in cc debt that 'push-consumerism', GWB's feel-good and go
shop-till-you-drop message, propping up of the economy, that's largely responsible for having to bail out bearsterns, freddymac, and all the other financial institutions
who've yet to announce their failures, on the taxpayers' dime; w/out holding anyone
accountable.? Oh yea, now we propose tax-free holidays to stimulate sales.
So, sumdumass, if this is how life looks for a couple of (decently educated)
middle-class folks, I can't imagine how life feels for the chump working two, or
three, minimum-wage jobs.
"The Poor people don't pay taxes. In fact, they often get more back then they ever thought of paying in."
Your are not only sumdumass, but an asshat if you really believe that. The Poor
pay just like the rest of us! The wage-slave pays, the illegal migrants pay,
Everyone who works pays, or the IRS comes a-knocking.
Do you think that some CEO who makes a few million
(despite trashing his company) works harder than some single parent holding down
more than one (often sweaty, lowly) job? What is it that should make the very rich
exempt from paying, from getting a pass?
Theft is theft by any other name. And greed factors larger for those who have more.
The FACT that the system caters to and coddles them is only a sign of how borked it
is. The costs associated with common criminality pales in comparison to the damages
created by White-collar crime. If white-collar criminals were put in the dock and
held accountable we wouldn't even be having this discussion because there would
be plenty of $ to go around and taxes would not be as much of a burden on the rest of us.
Unless you are one of those usual suspects, stop being their apologist and lackey.
Everyone's put the emphasis on hands-on experience as the determinator of
a successful office-holder w/out addressing the derivative of that experience,
which is knowing where the skeletons are and how to maximize them.
This is what tenure can deliver. For BClinton, as AK gov, it was exercising
control over an extremely corrupt State government (including Rose et.al.)
which, in time, lead to the origins of his relations w/ GHWB
(while GHWB was CIA director, then VP, and using Mena, AK as a support
base for the Contras).
The laundering that resulted from Mena, the roles played by the Gov's office
in spreading the wealth: OTJ!
That is what BObama (thankfully) lacks (on can only hope) and what Biden
may have to offer.
Sorry, but you and anyone who continually asserts that driving is a priv is incorrect.
Driving anything: a motor vehicle, a horse-drawn cart, or in the case of my 80YO neighbor, a
lawn tractor w/his wife riding behind in the leaf trailer, is a RIGHT.
Just because our society is 'modern', it should have no bearing on
one's right of conveyance on a public thoroughfare, paid for with their tax dollars.
It is a right because, even moreso than in the past, nearly everyone depends on their ability
to get from point A to point B in order to eke out a living and survive.
If it was not a right, but in fact just a priv, then there would not be so many drivers who
are still on the road after (or while) having their license suspended; not just once or twice,
but a dozen of times or more. Even the courts recognize that they cannot prevent people from
getting to/from a job, or the grocery store, or where-ever necessary to survive.
If the courts actually upheld their laws rigorously, then the backlash would lead to
the inevitable proof that Motor Vehicle Laws are in fact unconstitutional; not 'fact'
based, are non-uniform, are not safety-based, are arbitrary and predjudicial, and are not equally applied.
Its a well-known fact that the State gets away with their shenanigans because so few people contest
their citations. Those who do, know that they have >50% of beating the ticket.
Hell, a $100 ticket can have great entertainment value. Plead not-guilty, stall for continuances
as long as possible, harangue the courts w/every right you have remaining, have fun cross-examining the citing officer; challenge the law, the cops, the courts. Then appeal after you've been found
guilty. Rinse and repeat. Invite your friends to the courthouse.
After awhile you get a rep for costing the court way more than the price of the ticket.
Most cops dont like having to stop people for bullshit laws. Speeding, generally, is one of them.
Specially if you are not a clear and present danger to anyone on the road. Specially if after
the routing check they find nothing outstanding.
When you get stopped, before being cited (and being excessively polite) inform the cop that
you'll fight the citation and if you beat the speeding ticket, that you'll be calling him as a witness for your defense in every subsequent court case you get.
After awhile, the cops stop showing up for your court date.
Driving is a RIGHT. Driving safe is your RESPONSIBILITY. If you dont cause accidents then
what you do (and how you do it) should be your business. If you do cause an accident then you should fully PAY the damages (screw no-fault) and if it means you risk losing everything to your
bad judgement then so be it. You become the example for others to act more responsibly.
Current motor vehicle laws, defined under the priv meme, actually minimizes
personal ACCOUNTABILITY rather than increasing it, by spreading 'percieved' risks among
everyone it lessens the actual risk for those who cause damages (at any speed, in any vehicle)
Bad drivers are now the law-breakers not the damage-causers, even though their breaking the
law may have had no consequences for anyone, including themselves.
Sorry if i expressed my thoughts poorly.
what this will do is provide probable cause, giving the cops authority to stop and detain.
I'm sure that it will fail some arrests as being pre-textual if the stop results in something other
than a motor vehicle citation. But its a way for the LEA camel to insert its nose into the tents
of our lives another inch or two.
Speeding does not kill, loss of control kills; at any speed. Going fast(er) can just make it worse;
but a motor vehicle can kill at 15MPH as easily as at 65MPH.
Most people ignore speed limits. Cops ignore speed limits. Speed and safety are relative terms and
ambigous (sp) at best. Most posted speed limits are generally lower to account for winter conditions.
Most people who get cited for speeding are not the ones who have accidents;
ergo, its a racket that taxes those who drive the most, commuters who know the roads they drive
like the back of their hands. Its a scam that directly ties the points system into a money-maker for
the insurance companies (dont get me started).
>people that do this stuff are breaking rules.
People who choose to speed are exercising their own judgement over that of the State. Whether they are
correct in their assessment remains to be seen as to whether it results in injury or damages.
You don't break any rules? How about the broken stop light at 2AM? when you're the only car in sight?
Or the pedestrian sign saying 'do not cross' when there's nobody on the road but yourself and you
could probably cross the street blindfolded and be safe?
I would posit that if you never break any (of the ever-growing list of) rules, then you are letting
the State do your thinking for you and you have joined the sheeple.