While I can not speak to your specific incident where the officer states that the vehicle was committing the offense of dangerous driving, were an accident to have occurred (and were you to survive) any good lawyer would be able to have the charges dismissed as you both were committing offenses under the HTA at the time so no fault can reasonably be ascertained.
Interesting point, Though I am not "blocking".
If you look at the roads in Toronto you come to realize that on a lot of streets car park on the side. "Door Prices" (including fatalities for the few "lucky" ones) are quite common, so riding at least 2m in the lane falls in the "safe" distance as I am by far not interested in slamming into someone's door. My last crash was exactly because of something like this where I swerved to the right trying to avoid the woman who didn't look and just opened the door, I then ended up in the street car tracks and went flying.
Point is, "Riding in the lane" for me means leaving enough space to my right side to not be hit by suddenly opening doors, cars can pass just fine as long as they move into the other lane, if they can't do that safely then they clearly shouldn't try to pass to begin with. Ever seen two cars trying to pass at the same time when closing onto each other? Guess who's the odd one out if I happen to be there at the same time?
Bicycles overtaken &/or traveling slower than normal traffic: Any vehicle moving slower than the normal traffic speed shall drive in the right-hand lane, or "as close as practicable to the right" edge of the road, except when preparing to turn left or when passing another vehicle according to Section 147. Furthermore, section 148(6) states: every person on a bicycle or motor assisted bicycle who is overtaken by a vehicle traveling at a greater speed shall turn out to the right and allow the vehicle to pass and the vehicle overtaking shall turn out to the left so far as may be necessary to avoid a collision. Passing motorist should also be aware that every person in charge of a vehicle on a highway meeting a person travelling on a bicycle shall allow the cyclist sufficient room on the roadway to pass as per section 148(4).
Agreed, where is there a miscommunication?
Cycling on Shoulders: Although Section 150 prohibits motorists in most circumstances from driving on shoulders, cyclists are subject to no such restriction. However, by using the shoulder cyclists are deemed to have left the roadway, and must yield right of way to vehicles on the roadway before returning to it.
So, staying on the road makes a lot more sense.
Brakes: Section 64 (3) specifies that no person shall ride a bicycle on a highway unless it is equipped with a rear-wheel braking system on which will enable the rider to make the braked wheel skid on dry level pavement. Try this at home kids, but I believe you will find that under this test most of your mountain bike prove to be illegal to operate on the roads of Ontario. Any good lawyer would use this point to find you at fault for any accidents that you are involved in!
Interesting point, wasn't aware of that. Both of my Roadbikes can "lock" the rearwheel, more than once I "skidded" thanks to being cut off by a car.
Bicyclists to wear helmet: Section 104 (2.1) No person shall ride on or operate a bicycle on a highway unless the person is wearing a bicycle helmet that complies with the regulations and the chinstrap of the helmet is securely fastened under the chin.
I wasn't aware that this was already signed into law, I knew they were debating it, or is it different within city limits?
If you are going to ride your bike on the road try obeying the traffic laws before you start some rant blaming motorists.
My run ins with cars / motorist came from being cut off, passed too closely and other "nice" things. Not from taking a car "head on" by riding down a one way (and yes, many many people on bikes do this, they even ride on the wrong side of the bike lane for whatever odd reason they are having).
There are idiots everywhere, but if you do it on a bike vs. car chances are Darwin will take care of you, if you do it in a car, chances are you'll still be around for a second try.
The only difference is that they really ARE beers, and rather dark at that.
I like the taste of a good Coffee Porter now and then, though it wouldn't be something I drink every day. There are way more interestingbeers to be had.
Personally things like Smirnoff Ice and their ilk I find just revolting. WAAAAY too sweet and it is just not fun to drink. A Whiksy Cola is okay now and then, but if you look around and see how / what kids (29) guzzle down these days it's just bad.
Reminded me more of water with some nasty after taste.
But then what do I know, I grew up in Germany.
Re:Use bike trails or ride during off-peak hours..
on
E-bike E-xperiences?
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· Score: 1
Seriously, riding a bike on roadways is dangerous - you are going slower than the flow of traffic and possibly illegally so. You're annoying the other drivers - drivers who have PAID for the roads with fuel taxes. Yes, people who buy fuel really do have more of a right to use the roads.
Being alive is dangerous, believe it or not, it will end in death.
Having said that: I paid for the roads with my taxes too AND I even own a car I have ANY right to be on the road as you do, like it or not. If you have temper issues, maybe you need to get some professional help.
While you probably don't care, you'll eventually encounter some asshole who does something careless to pass you and ends up getting you seriously injured. Put yourself in the position of the driver - when you're making car payments, buying fuel, and to top it off you're already late from traffic, ending up behind someone on a bicycle can be a very frustrating situation.
How sad, he has a bad day, so I better don't be where he might get (needlessly) aggrevated over it? If it aggrevates him so much that he blows all the money on fuel, car payments, insurance (which will go up quite a bit if he hits me, not to meanson he might make the car payments from jail)... Well, maybe he should sell the car and get on a bike. Or: Get professionell help.
Some people actually have deadlines and don't have the luxury of taking their time getting to their destination at a leasurely pace.
Then I suggest to some people that they plan their day better and only do as much as they can safely do instead of thinking the world has to bend to their wishes.
I'm not trying to flame, I'm just saying that you DO have a right to use the road like any other public utility provided you contribute your fair share (taxes) and don't disrupt the normal flow of traffic. No one likes someone who pisses in the pool.
I am not "impeding the flow of traffic" I am not on a highway, I am on a normal road way and the law gives me the right to be there, if you can't get that in your head I suggest you walk (not drive) to the next police station and hand in the keys before you kill someone and find yourself in jail where you can't even walk anywhere.
Not that I am trying to flame, just pointing things out for you.
Actually when it comes to cardio exercises you won't get more by "working harder" if anything you'll be getting slower, but you shouldn't be working harder than 80% of your MaxHR anyways.
So, by having a decent Roadbike (road conditions permitting) you most likely will get a better workout than with a MTB where the lower gearing forces you to spin a lot faster for the same result.
have a look at a bike helmet. They are rather thin from the shell standpoint and they are also covered with a lot of vents which makes them (by default) less sturdy.
Now compare them with a motorcycle helmet and you'll come to realize that they are just glorified things. Can they help? Sure, anything is probably better between your head and pavement, but it is even better not to hit the pavement in the first place.
I do NOT rely on a helmet to keep me safe, I rather try to adapt my riding to not having to test the helmets abilities, and I DO have an expensive Pneumo.
I still think people overestimate the safety a helmet brings, just because it has cracked doesn't necessarily mean the same would have happened to your head (in fact, you might not have hit your head at all without the helmet, afterall it adds a couple of inches to your head).
I seperated a couple of times from my bike and I have never hit my head, I also did a nice high speed wipeout in a curve, caused a lot of road rash but nothing hit the head.
I know that helmet advocats like to point out the dead that occasionally happen at le tour, but if you look at those accidents not even a helmet would have those guys, ramming head first into a stone road marker at well over 50kph.... No helmet would have saved him.
Depends on the road, if it is narrow and there would be no way that they could pass me safely: No, if the road would allow for it (and I know they would do it in a safe manner) yes of course.
I drive a car myself, but when I pass someoneon the bike I only do it if I could also overtake a car in it's spot.
Yeah, it is really easy getting lost in there, though they made it rather easy as they did not open up the ENTIRE level which sort of helped (I shudder thinking that all the doors would have worked).
But still, playing the game on Elite is fun, maybe I should play it once more before the second one comes out.
I own an MTB. I commute to work with it. It's not SUV mentality -- rather, it's practical concern. While I do live in the city, the city I live in provides a goodly number of bike trails, so I needn't ride city streets to commute. Taking the trails is not only less stressful (no real traffic), but faster as well (fewer intersections, etc.). Unfortunately, there are sections of trail that are gravel, dirt, or badly-damaged asphault. Road bikes are an utter waste on those sections of trail.
That's what Cyclocross bikes are for;)
So, I have a y-frame MTB with a suspension - I'd rather waste some of my output (about 12%, BTW, not 20-30%) in absorbing the back-trail type of terrain and saving my back (rear shock). The front shocks are worth it because I can maintain a higher average speed over rough terrain, as the shocks help keep the tire on the trail.
I think it depends on your fork. The "beater MTB" I had had a VERY soft front fork and on more than once (sprinting for a green light) I managed to actually "ram" the fork to the bottom.
While I agree that a lot of people buy MTB-style bikes for how they look (or because they don't know any better), one can't automatically assume that every city-rider who has an MTB is clueless. Especially when not everyone can afford multiple bikes -- I know people who commute on city streets, but buy the MTB because they off-road on weekends and don't want to own two bikes.
Yes I agree, not everybody, but the majority of people who ride around downtown Toronto who have MTBs didn't buy them because they needed them. Studded tires and full shocks? Granted, the road conditions in Toronto at times are bad, but not THAT bad:)
I did ride on the side initially unti I realized that suddenly people thought they could pass me without even going a bit to the left. Since then I am smack in the middle.
The chances of being overlooked or hit are decreasing amazingly. What I also noticed is that people started going WIDER around me than before.
I tell you, it makes one feel special when you feel the right mirror of a Monster SUV whistle right next to your ear because the punk kid at the wheel has no clue how wide his fucking SUV is.
"Safe speed"? Safe speed is in the city at most 50kph, granted I can't keep that up for a very long time but the majority of the time you only race from traffic light to traffic light.
If I am out of town in the open country road then there is enough space for you to get around me.
I am not talking about riding on the highway where you go 100+kph, and in the city you ALWAYS need to drive in a way that allows you to stop if a kid runs out on the street, speed limit or not. So your argument really doesn't apply.
I initially thought I am a "good" citizen and ride on the side, as to not "impede the guy in the SUV who tries to drink his coffee and eat a donught on his stressful way to work."
That lasted until I got almost hit a couple of times with their mirrors because they "drifted" to the right as some jelly of their donught had dropped on their suit.
Or this one time where a woman dreamingly first seem to take the other lane to overtake me only to all of the sudden run me into the ditch without even noticing, as I caught her at the next traffic light and asked what that was all about she claimed she didn't see me (I am 6'2" for crying out loud and by far not hard to see).
Point is: I really don't care if you are two minutes later at work, if you're running late then get up earlier, but the "stunts" I am playing make it safer for ME and as I don't have a couple of thousand pounds of metal around my ass to "protect" (or trap) me I have to make sure you are aware that *I* am there. I don't have any passive safety, only active one, and the best for me is to be clearly seen, even by the donught and coffee drinking SUV driver.
A Tri bike is in essence a road bike with a steeper configuration.
Aero bars also help (though when I see some MTBs with them I have to wonder how they help at all considering that the people are sitting so high up).
The reality is: If you commute to work and you're not living out in the country, why use a MTB? Get a decent commuter, I have one two which I use to get around downtown with a heavy lock so that it doesn't get stolen.
I must be the only person in NA who does not own a MTB, it seems that is the only type of bike that people know here.... Almost like the SUV craze (suspension while riding on the road? Sure, if I want to hammer 20 - 30% of my output in the shocks).
I hate a MTB here too, I got rid of it, as I hardly go off road, though I am moving out west soon, so I might buy one again.
Is it the car commercials that creates the race-car mentality in most people? Is it the long commutes to work? What? Its amazing how irate people can become when you do "only" 5 mph over the speed limit.
Okay, personally speaking I like the feeling of getting into a curve, especially if I know the area very well.
Maybe 10 years or so ago there was a stretch of road where I grew up that was very very winding. THe cool thing was that there was a long straight away (~2km long) where you could see who entered the "track", if you drove slowly there the guy in front of you made it wonderfully up the side of the hill before you entered the "maze". So we had those little "races" where we timed ourselves on how long it took to get from the bottom to the top, I think I topped it out at ~70km/h average on a really twisty and windy course.
Reality is: Most speed limits are set at a pace that allows even the worst drivers to navigate carefully, and knowing the limits of your car does not only come in handy when you try to "race" but also when you have to swerve around obstacles or get into an emergency situation.
EVERY new car I owned I ended up going to a parking lot within the first week and litterally drove the car to a point where I lost control and skitted / spun out.
Why? Because I wanted to know how far I can push it without losing control, this came handy more than once when I had all of the sudden an obstacle on the road that I had to swerve around or break (breaking is not always the safest option, depending on road condition and what's going on behind you).
It's absolutly retared, I learned how to ride a bike when I was six, taught it myself on a parking lot.
I never had a helmet until I came to Canada and started Triathlons because now they are mandated.
I can't count how often I fell off the bike, went over the handlebars and all, but that's it.
I know people who "swear" by them and say they safe lives.... Maybe, but if you look at the average crash that is fatal (e.g. hitting the curb head first) I doubt that a flimsy bike helmet will do anything to protect you.
You're best protection is still to be aware of your surroundings and assume that everybody is out to kill you.
A lot of people with helmets get this "I wear a helmet, I am safe" attitude that you can also observe in SUVs.
A real biker does never, ever get off the bike and push, if you have to mash it up the freaking hill you'll do it, but getting off and pushing it means you admit defeat.
My solution to the passing problem is to be bold and ride in the middle of the lane, especially if there are two lanes.
According to the highway traffic act here in Ontario (and I think all of Canada) a bike is "vehicle" and thus the lane is mine.
I got into shouting matches about this with drivers, to a point where a cop was interested and told the guy if he doesn't shut up and move on he'll gonna ticket him for dangerous driving (he saw how the guy almost ran me off the road).
Why do I take a whole lane? Because that way I have at least some "escape" room if need be.
Interestingly enough, a lot of guys I know down in the states always tell me that they "ride on the shoulder" wherever they can or "squeese to the right" as to not be "hindering" the car traffic.
Personally I give a shit about this, If I am already squeezing on the side they sure as hell won't respect me when passing, and most of the time people go the wide way around me, if they can't do it safely, then I guess they shouldn't pass at all.
Slashdot Mirror
Interesting point, Though I am not "blocking".
If you look at the roads in Toronto you come to realize that on a lot of streets car park on the side. "Door Prices" (including fatalities for the few "lucky" ones) are quite common, so riding at least 2m in the lane falls in the "safe" distance as I am by far not interested in slamming into someone's door. My last crash was exactly because of something like this where I swerved to the right trying to avoid the woman who didn't look and just opened the door, I then ended up in the street car tracks and went flying.
Point is, "Riding in the lane" for me means leaving enough space to my right side to not be hit by suddenly opening doors, cars can pass just fine as long as they move into the other lane, if they can't do that safely then they clearly shouldn't try to pass to begin with. Ever seen two cars trying to pass at the same time when closing onto each other? Guess who's the odd one out if I happen to be there at the same time?
Agreed, where is there a miscommunication?
So, staying on the road makes a lot more sense.
Interesting point, wasn't aware of that. Both of my Roadbikes can "lock" the rearwheel, more than once I "skidded" thanks to being cut off by a car.
I wasn't aware that this was already signed into law, I knew they were debating it, or is it different within city limits?
My run ins with cars / motorist came from being cut off, passed too closely and other "nice" things. Not from taking a car "head on" by riding down a one way (and yes, many many people on bikes do this, they even ride on the wrong side of the bike lane for whatever odd reason they are having).
There are idiots everywhere, but if you do it on a bike vs. car chances are Darwin will take care of you, if you do it in a car, chances are you'll still be around for a second try.
Yeah, but this isn't really new.
coffee porter's are around for quite some time.
The only difference is that they really ARE beers, and rather dark at that.
I like the taste of a good Coffee Porter now and then, though it wouldn't be something I drink every day. There are way more interesting beers to be had.
Personally things like Smirnoff Ice and their ilk I find just revolting. WAAAAY too sweet and it is just not fun to drink. A Whiksy Cola is okay now and then, but if you look around and see how / what kids (29) guzzle down these days it's just bad.
Really?
Reminded me more of water with some nasty after taste.
But then what do I know, I grew up in Germany.
Being alive is dangerous, believe it or not, it will end in death.
Having said that: I paid for the roads with my taxes too AND I even own a car I have ANY right to be on the road as you do, like it or not. If you have temper issues, maybe you need to get some professional help.
How sad, he has a bad day, so I better don't be where he might get (needlessly) aggrevated over it? If it aggrevates him so much that he blows all the money on fuel, car payments, insurance (which will go up quite a bit if he hits me, not to meanson he might make the car payments from jail)... Well, maybe he should sell the car and get on a bike. Or: Get professionell help.
Then I suggest to some people that they plan their day better and only do as much as they can safely do instead of thinking the world has to bend to their wishes.
I am not "impeding the flow of traffic" I am not on a highway, I am on a normal road way and the law gives me the right to be there, if you can't get that in your head I suggest you walk (not drive) to the next police station and hand in the keys before you kill someone and find yourself in jail where you can't even walk anywhere.
Not that I am trying to flame, just pointing things out for you.
It seems we have different ideas about what we're trying to achive, I talk about the Cardio Benefits, not about the calorie burn ;)
I am not so sure about this.
Running vs. Walking --> It's distance that counts.
And again: The effect on your overall cardio is probably the same without having any data right now to back it up.
The only difference I see is in building muscle, but there your bigger gear probably does more for you on a road bike than the smaller gear on a MTB.
And let's face it: ANY exercise we get is good, most of us sit way to much around and don't do anything at all.
I haven't tried myself, but what I have heard the New York Line was not affected So far nobody broke it.
Actually when it comes to cardio exercises you won't get more by "working harder" if anything you'll be getting slower, but you shouldn't be working harder than 80% of your MaxHR anyways.
So, by having a decent Roadbike (road conditions permitting) you most likely will get a better workout than with a MTB where the lower gearing forces you to spin a lot faster for the same result.
No, it's from the New York Series which as a disc lock.
Yeah ironic, isn't it?
These days it is cheaper to get "shocks" than getting a bike that has a normal fork.
As for the lower gearing... I already think my commuter is geared too low, I am pretty much in the big gear all the time.
Oh, the picking up girls works on a nice road bike too ;)
:)
And personally I like both, but bikes are more fun, once you're home again you realize just how much fun it is
I can relax when I am dead
Okay,
have a look at a bike helmet. They are rather thin from the shell standpoint and they are also covered with a lot of vents which makes them (by default) less sturdy.
Now compare them with a motorcycle helmet and you'll come to realize that they are just glorified things. Can they help? Sure, anything is probably better between your head and pavement, but it is even better not to hit the pavement in the first place.
I do NOT rely on a helmet to keep me safe, I rather try to adapt my riding to not having to test the helmets abilities, and I DO have an expensive Pneumo.
I still think people overestimate the safety a helmet brings, just because it has cracked doesn't necessarily mean the same would have happened to your head (in fact, you might not have hit your head at all without the helmet, afterall it adds a couple of inches to your head).
I seperated a couple of times from my bike and I have never hit my head, I also did a nice high speed wipeout in a curve, caused a lot of road rash but nothing hit the head.
I know that helmet advocats like to point out the dead that occasionally happen at le tour, but if you look at those accidents not even a helmet would have those guys, ramming head first into a stone road marker at well over 50kph.... No helmet would have saved him.
Depends on the road, if it is narrow and there would be no way that they could pass me safely: No, if the road would allow for it (and I know they would do it in a safe manner) yes of course.
I drive a car myself, but when I pass someoneon the bike I only do it if I could also overtake a car in it's spot.
Yeah, it is really easy getting lost in there, though they made it rather easy as they did not open up the ENTIRE level which sort of helped (I shudder thinking that all the doors would have worked).
But still, playing the game on Elite is fun, maybe I should play it once more before the second one comes out.
That's what Cyclocross bikes are for
I think it depends on your fork. The "beater MTB" I had had a VERY soft front fork and on more than once (sprinting for a green light) I managed to actually "ram" the fork to the bottom.
Yes I agree, not everybody, but the majority of people who ride around downtown Toronto who have MTBs didn't buy them because they needed them. Studded tires and full shocks? Granted, the road conditions in Toronto at times are bad, but not THAT bad
Thanks for the concern.
I did ride on the side initially unti I realized that suddenly people thought they could pass me without even going a bit to the left. Since then I am smack in the middle.
The chances of being overlooked or hit are decreasing amazingly. What I also noticed is that people started going WIDER around me than before.
I tell you, it makes one feel special when you feel the right mirror of a Monster SUV whistle right next to your ear because the punk kid at the wheel has no clue how wide his fucking SUV is.
"Safe speed"? Safe speed is in the city at most 50kph, granted I can't keep that up for a very long time but the majority of the time you only race from traffic light to traffic light.
If I am out of town in the open country road then there is enough space for you to get around me.
I am not talking about riding on the highway where you go 100+kph, and in the city you ALWAYS need to drive in a way that allows you to stop if a kid runs out on the street, speed limit or not. So your argument really doesn't apply.
You know,
I initially thought I am a "good" citizen and ride on the side, as to not "impede the guy in the SUV who tries to drink his coffee and eat a donught on his stressful way to work."
That lasted until I got almost hit a couple of times with their mirrors because they "drifted" to the right as some jelly of their donught had dropped on their suit.
Or this one time where a woman dreamingly first seem to take the other lane to overtake me only to all of the sudden run me into the ditch without even noticing, as I caught her at the next traffic light and asked what that was all about she claimed she didn't see me (I am 6'2" for crying out loud and by far not hard to see).
Point is: I really don't care if you are two minutes later at work, if you're running late then get up earlier, but the "stunts" I am playing make it safer for ME and as I don't have a couple of thousand pounds of metal around my ass to "protect" (or trap) me I have to make sure you are aware that *I* am there. I don't have any passive safety, only active one, and the best for me is to be clearly seen, even by the donught and coffee drinking SUV driver.
A Tri bike is in essence a road bike with a steeper configuration.
:)
Aero bars also help (though when I see some MTBs with them I have to wonder how they help at all considering that the people are sitting so high up).
The reality is: If you commute to work and you're not living out in the country, why use a MTB? Get a decent commuter, I have one two which I use to get around downtown with a heavy lock so that it doesn't get stolen.
I must be the only person in NA who does not own a MTB, it seems that is the only type of bike that people know here.... Almost like the SUV craze (suspension while riding on the road? Sure, if I want to hammer 20 - 30% of my output in the shocks).
I hate a MTB here too, I got rid of it, as I hardly go off road, though I am moving out west soon, so I might buy one again.
One can never have enough bikes
Okay, personally speaking I like the feeling of getting into a curve, especially if I know the area very well.
Maybe 10 years or so ago there was a stretch of road where I grew up that was very very winding. THe cool thing was that there was a long straight away (~2km long) where you could see who entered the "track", if you drove slowly there the guy in front of you made it wonderfully up the side of the hill before you entered the "maze". So we had those little "races" where we timed ourselves on how long it took to get from the bottom to the top, I think I topped it out at ~70km/h average on a really twisty and windy course.
Reality is: Most speed limits are set at a pace that allows even the worst drivers to navigate carefully, and knowing the limits of your car does not only come in handy when you try to "race" but also when you have to swerve around obstacles or get into an emergency situation.
EVERY new car I owned I ended up going to a parking lot within the first week and litterally drove the car to a point where I lost control and skitted / spun out.
Why? Because I wanted to know how far I can push it without losing control, this came handy more than once when I had all of the sudden an obstacle on the road that I had to swerve around or break (breaking is not always the safest option, depending on road condition and what's going on behind you).
Don't get me started on that helmet craze.
It's absolutly retared, I learned how to ride a bike when I was six, taught it myself on a parking lot.
I never had a helmet until I came to Canada and started Triathlons because now they are mandated.
I can't count how often I fell off the bike, went over the handlebars and all, but that's it.
I know people who "swear" by them and say they safe lives.... Maybe, but if you look at the average crash that is fatal (e.g. hitting the curb head first) I doubt that a flimsy bike helmet will do anything to protect you.
You're best protection is still to be aware of your surroundings and assume that everybody is out to kill you.
A lot of people with helmets get this "I wear a helmet, I am safe" attitude that you can also observe in SUVs.
A real biker does never, ever get off the bike and push, if you have to mash it up the freaking hill you'll do it, but getting off and pushing it means you admit defeat.
NEVER!
My solution to the passing problem is to be bold and ride in the middle of the lane, especially if there are two lanes.
According to the highway traffic act here in Ontario (and I think all of Canada) a bike is "vehicle" and thus the lane is mine.
I got into shouting matches about this with drivers, to a point where a cop was interested and told the guy if he doesn't shut up and move on he'll gonna ticket him for dangerous driving (he saw how the guy almost ran me off the road).
Why do I take a whole lane? Because that way I have at least some "escape" room if need be.
Interestingly enough, a lot of guys I know down in the states always tell me that they "ride on the shoulder" wherever they can or "squeese to the right" as to not be "hindering" the car traffic.
Personally I give a shit about this, If I am already squeezing on the side they sure as hell won't respect me when passing, and most of the time people go the wide way around me, if they can't do it safely, then I guess they shouldn't pass at all.
[rant off]