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E-bike E-xperiences?
Jakedata writes "I am in the process of building my first e-bike. I intend to use it to commute to work a couple times a week, weather permitting. I can only assume that many members of the /. crowd are already riding e-bikes and would be only too happy to share their experiences. I am looking at a very affordable e-bike conversion kit from Golden Island Machinery. They offer a 36 volt lead-acid battery pack for it, but I am concerned that it will be too heavy. Rabbit tool has a selection of components and power options but they are pretty pricy. So, is Golden Motor's kit any good? Is lead acid OK to start off with? Does someone want to donate a direct-conversion methanol fuel cell to the project?"
This thing has a top speed of 36km/h and 50km distance. I'd say it would come in handy to complement your peddling when the wind is not in your favor.
Though I would have liked to have seen it hooked up to the derailleur as the motor specs says it has 'high torque'.
I can usually maintain 35km/h effortlessly, but with this beast 45km/h could be the crusing speed if peddling and motoring can go hand in hand.
Wouldn't go any faster on a pedal bike, leave that to the stunt people.
Candle burns its brightest in the dark
Something like a Trek or Cannondale.
It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
I moderate therefore I rule!
--
when I was employed (oh so long ago...) I biked to work 2-3 times a week, about 12 miles each way. Screw the e-bike, get the real thing. Peddling your ass that distance will get you in great shape. On top of that, I find cycling a lot less stressful than driving, it's relaxing really.
Why methanol? Wouldn't an ethanol fuel cell be better, because then you could share a drink with it?
but jokes aside, does anyone know of advantages of methanol over ethanol fuel cells?
...oh, you mean 'electric' bicycle.
:)
Yeah, that's interesting....not.
Talk about re-inventing the wheel
By the way, there are many of these already manufactured and ready to roll - Asia has several models I'm sure a few of which are available in your area.
Why don't you just pedal instead of riding it? Personally, I spend most of my day in front of a computer now and do even less excerise than I use to after I graduated from college. Needless to say, I put on some weight. Cycling is one of the best aerobic excerises out there. Professional cyclists are among the leanest athletes. Even 30 minutes of pedalling will help burn enough calories to compensate for spending most of your day sitting in front of a screen.
EvilCON - Made Famous by
Have you considered buying an E-Bike? Something like the Sharper Image One... http://store.yahoo.com/sharperimage-best/si791.htm l
$1000
http://seanism.com/
So maybe, just maybe, it's a good idea to actually get some excercise on your bike? You're probably going to work to sit at a desk all day, so you could burn a few calories on the way there and back to make up for your big mac at lunch.
Once I was riding my bike to high-school and some jerk dumped their coke on me as they drove by. True Story. Had I been riding an e-bike, I might have been electrocuted.
TODO: come up with a clever sig
Back in my day, we used our feet to get the wheels turning... we managed to use the different gears to adjust going up hill. If the hill was too steep we got off and pushed.
Back in my day, people seemed skinnier too.
Ha Ha!
When I was a young geek of 9, I got my ham radio license.
I tricked my bike out with an old 2M radio bolted to the handlebars, 6V golf cart battery under the seat, and a whip antenna attached to the frame, down by the rear axle, running up like one of those flags
More than doubled the bike's weight. I was, however, the kid with a real mobile rig.
I only really talked to my parents with it, but it was still cool. And ultra-geeky.
Hehe
Do you really mean 35km/h on average? For how long? That is almost as good as a professional cyclist can get...
Why not just peddle the bike.
This doesn't help the environment. It increases the use of batteries. Add some more acid to the compost heap.
This does not help Fat America for it does not induce exercise. With all these electric vehicles (bikes, power wheels, little motorcycles, etc) think of how FAT our kids will be.
Christ aren't we lazy enough already. Pretty soon there will be machines so we dont have to actually move ourselves during sex. It will be aptly titled the E-Sex machine.
Looks like it is time to replace your Personality Module. You are a bit to clingy, guess I better replace your fuser to
e-bikes are for pussies and 'senior citizen'
I've been riding a GoMotorboard 1500X that I got refurbished for $150 (down from $300 retail). It really does go 15MPH for about 10-15mi on flat, paved streets on a charge. Small hills (30 degrees) slow it to a crawl and eat the battery, but it keeps chugging, though the rises in Manhattan and most of Brooklyn are no problem. And the regenerative braking seems to work, albeit at much less than 100% efficiency. I've had some battery charging problems, but I got a couple replacements that I can now carry charged, extending its roundtrip charge life to up to 45mi or so. Best of all, it snaps down into a 25lb package over my shoulder, so 10 minute walks from subways are now 3-5 minutes. And it's really fun whizzing around nearly silently. But I wish it had inflatable (less efficient) tires, because the ride over any roughness, including sidewalk seams, can be too much. And quits immediately if the drivewheel gets even a little wet. Worth it.
--
make install -not war
I think you might get into trouble for operating a motorized vehicle without the proper license or registration. Since you stated that you want to commute to work, why not get a scooter? You can ride legally on all of the same roads as a car can and not have to worry about cars passing (and nearly hitting) you on busy streets while on a bicycle.
I ride a motorcycle to work and it is the funnest thing! I blow past all of the cars and cut in front of everyone at stop lights.
I was coming down out of the mountains last year and got stuck behind some flatlander doing 35-40 mph around the curves. On that road it's all curves. The funny thing was, there was a bicycle behind him and the guy on the bike was tailgating the flatlander.
Now personally I haven't ridden a bike in about 2 decades. But when I did back in the day, we never wore helmets. The question never came up. Amazing, in retrospect, that we all survived. I went over the handlebars or in other various directions several times back in the day and still managed to survive. I suppose the helmet is to protect your brain while the rest of your body is horribly crushed and mutilated. Or something. Worst case, you might end up like that guy on star trek that has to be pushed around and can only communicate by flashing a light, but at least you survived getting run over by some bozo in an SUV...
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
If it were me, I'd dump the lead-acid cells and use Li-Poly (Lithium Polymer).
Sure they're more expensive but they're much, much lighter due to their greater power density (hence a lot easier to pedal when you're not using the batteries).
Just make sure you use a real Li-Poly charger otherwise they could go bang.
is getting me e-xcited. More girls should ride bikes in short skirts.
goldenmotor.com/e-Bike-DIY/sample-e-bike.jpg
I use a Velomobile to get to work and back (http://www.velomobiel.nl/). It is fast and wether proof. (and there is a lot of nasty wheter over here in the Netherlands.
Nyh
Why don't you help this guy instead of giving him advice he's not asking for?
I can't believe how pessimistic this slashdot crowd can be. Some guy wants to work on a new project to replace his car and all anyone can do is call him a fat ass.
What do you know about the kit that was linked in the article? It seems that this kit powers your front wheel, while you power the back with a stadard pedal arrangement. That's something I haven't seen in an ebike before. Would you be limited to going the fastest that the motor/gearbox in the front wheel can move, or would you be able to add your pedal power and the electric motor to move at a greater pace? I obviously see the potential for greater acceleration and easier to maintain speed while going uphill, etc, but I'd like to be able cruise at a high speed for longish distances. Or, alternatively, add a little extra speed to my cruising for long durations.
The battery, I agree looks pretty hefty, I'll be interested to see what the /. crowd comes up with on that. Does the "power braker" = a regenerative braking system, or is it some sort of power assited brake to help you slow down at higher speeds and with the extra weight?
Two words people: MO-PED. Yah... it's already been invented. You can pick one up from the neighborhood kids for about 50 bucks.
A hungry man will tell you anything if you give him a cookie.
I don't see why won't you just be the ubergeek and build an android with your image and send it to work every day so you won't have to even get out of your bed ? You wouldn't even have to sit on a bike, let alone pedal the darn thing.
Man, if laziness would be a lethal disease, we'd have many more IT jobs open.
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
!
If you can shower at work, it's easier, but it's also very possible to take it a little easy on the way in to work and not show up smelling. Then you get the option of hammering it on the way home or just taking it easy. :)
Good luck with whichever way you decide to get to work -- far better than hauling a 3000lb steel beast to and fro every day!
The best E-bike, IMO.
I commute to work 3-4 days a week, 19 miles one way. Takes about 60-75 minutes. Get a nice late 80's early 90's lightweight road bike and just ride. On a flat once you're in shape, maintaining 20+mph isn't that hard. With the E-Bike, you won't get in shape, and you'll have guys like me passing you uphill and laughing. I've buried E-bikes on my road bike. Usually on a bit of an incline, and who knows, batteries may have been dead on the thing, but they weren't keeping up, that's for sure.
The poor guy asks for advice building an e-bike, and 50% of the +3 comments are "Why don't you just peddle (you lazy f*ck)?" Because I'm sure that thought NEVER CROSSED HIS MIND. Ever.
i dont know how many comments ive see that say something like "why dont you just peddle the bike and forget about the e-bike stuff"
..."
making jokes about being Tubby and this and that..
this is a common (but unfortunate) attitude i often find in the OSS community at large (bad pun, i know)
the question is NOT "what do you think about e-bikes" or "do you like the idea of
the question is about how to build one regardless of your opinion on the matter.
i often encounter this attitude in IRC aswell somebody asks a question about how to use a program and people say things like "what you are trying to do is stupid, you shouldnt be doing that at all, instead you should " rather than helping the person do what it is they are asking about in the first place.
point is: if you dont have something constructive to say that helps the person asking the question they are posing to you, butt out and let people who are actually interested in the specific topic in question to help add productive comments to the thread.
Mod me down, but everybody knows it's true. Only in asia are these fruity moped-ish bikes socially acceptable.
I thought he was talking about making a bike that
distributed WiFi... like this:
http://www.magicbike.net/
I read half the discussions about being a fat ass before
I realized what the hell was going on...
that'll teach me not to follow the links.
just ride it with l-power, lose weight, get fit and stop being such a dick. mmmkay?
Why not add gadgets to a regular bike? Like say a Palm Pilot or a GPS? That would, IMO make it an E-bike. If you are looking for an electric bike, then why not build an electric motorbike or perhaps a scooter?
I mean, having a bike and NOT moving it under your own power (Kinetic or Potential energy here) really defeats the purpose.
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
Tubby? The name "Tubby" is hurtful, as my weight problem is glandular.
Are you going to eat that pretzel?
linky
Check out
http://www.wildernessenergy.com
They have a nice kit. But if you want better quality, for about $160 more you can get the Go Hub kit from:
http://www.largoscooters.com/stealthkits.html
Also here is a great site for reports on EBikes:
http://www.visforvoltage.com
http://www.beauty-fly.com/cpzs.asp
http://www.biliqi.com.cn/cpjs01.htm
http://www.cnqianjiale.com/c-chanpin1.htm
Any ideas where I can get a small electric motor to drive an ebike? I dont want to do the hub centric thing.
I dont do meaning of life questions.
After getting into BattleBots years ago, I decided to reduce my commute to college (before I graduated) by building an electric scooter out of "spare" parts. It's not an e-bike from the standpoint that I didn't want to have to input any energy into the system myself (i.e. the motors had to do all the work). For cost and simplicity reasons, I chose to go with SLA (sealed lead acid) batteries and a couple of overvolted motors. With the proper timing, I achieved a flat speed of 16.5 MPH on two 1HP motors. With 64Ah (@12V) of Pb-acid chemistry onboard (this weighed a whopping 50 pounds), I had a maximum range (tested on all terrain including large hills) of just over 12 miles.
:-)
That's what I did and perhaps you can learn from what I would have done differently. First off, I would have used NiMh batteries. This would have cut the weight in more than half and also would have allowed me to customize the pack more both in shape and capacity (I only needed to go 9 miles in a day). The only downside to this was the charge time. SLA batteries are pretty indestructible and I could charge the full 64Ah in around an hour. With NiMh, you're talking about several hours or less if you don't mind compromising lifespan (with the right charger you could charge the same capacity in NiMh in the same time if you didn't mind getting only ~100 charges out of your packs). If I had the cash, I would probably use the high capacity, high discharge Li-Ion batteries from PowerStream (http://www.powerstream.com/LL.htm) as they would be incredibly light (~10 pounds for the same capacity).
As far as the motors went, I was fairly satisfied with the power output, but would have liked more. If you compare it to a car (~100HP for ~2000 pounds), you should have ~10-15HP available for the same performance. Now with electric motors, due to their differing torque curves (in comparison to internal combustion engines), you can achieve similar results from significantly less overall horsepower, but I still would have preferred having 3-6HP on my project.
Of course, if you go with high output motors, you need a speed controller capable of handling the current. And if you go with the Li-Ion batts, you need a fairly expensive charger.
You can take a look at some basic pics of my scooter at:
http://sloviper.com/hobbies/scooter/index.html
A good place for parts is:
http://www.robotmarketplace.com/
Cheap Ni-Mh batteries can be found at:
http://www.batteryspace.com/
I have used them in BattleBots before and they hold up decently, almost as well as the "expensive" ones from http://www.battlepack.com/
If you have any specific questions, feel free to contact me. I love discussing this sort of thing and have had tons of experience.
In theory, theory always works in practice. In practice, theory rarely works. <><
It really didn't sound practical at first: over 15 lbs. of gear, around 25 min. or 50 kms in range.
Maybe there are a bunch of motivated e-bikers out there but apparently Slashdot is only concerned in the other type of "e".
Good luck!
Heh, look at the yellow road sign on that site and the thing coming out of the back of the bike. Is it just me, or does it look like the bike rider is doing something OTHER than distributing wifi? ;)
but i can undeerstand your frustration. however, try constructively saving this kind of arguement for when you can have a clear head and then review your post, remove the antagonising tone putting it to a postive light and then, only then, posting it.
it'll serve you well. and probably land you that job you wanted.
Why not make an iBike? It would be slightly more expensive, but much sleeker and more stylish.
What we really need is a ten day waiting period and a background check before you can buy a congressman.
I wish these existed when I was younger. So cool!
http://www.hokeyspokes.com/
I can't wait to have kids so i can buy them stuff like this
You could install one of these on a BikeE (Google cache of related pages) and be the first kid on the block to have an EbikeBikeE!
I live in Pittsburgh... hazardous roads with human size potholes, everyone driving an SUV and utter lack of cycle friendly road width...
I was considering the same idea...cycling to work and the local grocery seems utterly rewarding... However, bicycles lack meaningful space to stash the groceries or to put your notebook computer...
To solve those problems, I found this excellent sub-frame bolt on that gives you essentially storage/trunk space. I own and ride one now.. Works very well and give the bike a better stability going over rough road.
See: http://www.xtracycle.com
Since Pittsburgh is part of a chain of mountains, getting anywhere consumes tons of energy regardless of your power source... For instance, the hills around my valley are 200-400ft inclines over say 1/2 - 1 full mile area.. steep stuff... With cargo, these hills would eat even an active cycler...
In comes the motor options... Pennsylvania being the backwards ass place it is treats bicyclists like troublemakers with all sorts of limitations on where you can go (not on highways) and how you can be cited... Anything with a motor other than farm equipment requires you to have a license and deal with the financial exploitation of say insurance...
So the way to go I belive is a pedal-assist that looks like a bicycle.... This way you get your exercise and help the motor pull you while benefiting from aid of the motor... Obviously, most E-bikes look like some weird concept and that is bound to take your local cops about one glance to start bothering you as if you were a 12 year old on one of those mini bikes..
Well, the electric bikes aren't very appealing at current... maybe the power could be used to run lights at night time instead... Batteries weigh a ton and every ounce matters on a bicycle... The alternative is gasoline...
Gasoline while not being ideal, is not really any more or less green than gas as a majority of it still is produced from COAL here in the US.
What really matters is miles per gallon and the ability to really go as far as you want... This is the same thing holding back electric cars for 30 years.. No one can deal with limiting their trip to say 30 mile range... It isn't that folks use more in a trip, but in like that cellphone that you always forget to recharge, a dead car would leave you stranded.
I've been back and forth with a company called Golden Eagle Bike Engines... Nice belt driven kits that seems to go really well (30+ MPH) and really long (250 MPG)... Their kit get's wonderful reviews and is short on my buy list...
See: http://www.bikeengines.com/
It seems most posters and lousy bicycle stuff happens in the US, say except the left coast.... California up to Washington... While across the pond, Europe is buzzing with cycles both motorized and people powered...
-- My hovercraft is full of eels.
wtf is an e-bike?
I tricked my bike out with an old 2M radio bolted to the handlebars, 6V golf cart battery under the seat, and a whip antenna attached to the frame, down by the rear axle, running up like one of those flags
I have worked at three bike shops as a mechanic. One in the country, one in the city, and one in Sweden. At EACH AND EVERYONE, I have had at least one customer who had welded, screwed, or zip-tied a HAM or CB-type radio to their bicycle. I would like an explaination you sick HAM bastards! Why do you have to demand a better word for "weird"???
...there are already dozens of comments saying "Why don't you peddle your bike to work you lazy bastard".
It's PEDAL, not peddle! Peddling is marketing. Pedaling is using your feet on the pedals of a bicycle.
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
...when the same comment was made over and over we modded them Redundant.
That being said... in your day did the people at work like smelling the sweat of someone who has just biked to work?
Someone has already pointed this out, so I'm being redundant, but there are two sides to everything. Maybe the person doesn't want to smell like a wet dog when he gets to work. I'm sure there is some cycling involved, but the point is to keep it to a minimum. Quit judging him. I bet you drive to work, likely an SUV.
Get your Unix fortune now!
buy a GEM car. You can carpool too.
----- Question authority, but not ours. Hate the man, but we're not him.
You lazy fuck!
Unless you can guarantee your e-bike is charged using hydro/nuclear/wind power, but most electricity still comes from good old fashioned dino compost.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
I was seduced by the idEa of an Ebike about 18 months ago.
I bought an Aprilia enjoy ebike.
This was not a Harley, but was certainly a fat and useless hog.
What a dog!!! about 4 (four!!!) km range going up and down hills here in Sydney.
So...I did what some other reader here suggested...bought myself a super duper light mountain bike, stuck some thin style phat boy kevlar tyres...pump'D them to 100 psi.
Man! You don't need a motor.
Float like a butterfly instead of riding the Hog.
Get a real bike. Should fuel cells...or flying cars ever emerge..then pigs too might fly.
Hi, I would avoid trying to deal with Golden Island Motor directly for ordering a single conversion kit, they don't do the english/communicating thing very well and the cost to wire transfer and ship just one hub motor will exceed the listed kit price considerably. You can get very similar value hub motors that are distributed locally through http://www.wildernessenergy.com/ and http://www.evsolutions.net/, a supplier of the http://www.crystalyte.com/. These are all direct drive motors, no gears to wear out and perfectly silent, but also fairly heavy for their power output.
I've also ordered reasonably cheap hub motors from http://www.elebike.com.tw/. They have an interesting selection including some internally geared models, and are quick to respond to queries.
Good Batteries continue to be the biggest hurdle for DIY e-bike experimenters because even though there are tons of asian companies that reportedly make them for cheap, there are simply no local suppliers. If you don't mind trying to import from China, some companies to check out:
1 http://www.peacebay.com/,
2 http://http//www.hyperbattery.com,
3 http://splendidbattery.com/,
4 http://www.gmbattery.com/,
5 http://www.thunder-sky.com/en/index.htm
Personally haven't ordered from 1 or 2 yet, 3 has very reasonably priced lithium polymer ($.82/watt-hour) and NiMH ($.40/w-hr) packs and will sell in individual qunatities. My favorite so far are the prismatic NiMH packs from 4, GMBattery, because you can access each individual cell and restack them easily. Finally there is the infamous thundersky who have lithium-ion batteries for less than most companies' NiMH. Their old 10Ah 36V setup had no protection circuitry and a few problems, but their new 20Ah 36V ebike pack looks a bit more reputable. Note that the 24V 4Ah NiMH packs from batteryspace.com that someone recomended are GARBAGE. Ours turned out to have only 2.6 Ah capacity and couldn't deliver more than about 5 amps. If you buy from batteryspace, be sure to get the 30Amp high rate pack.
Lead acid isn't really that bad if you're generally doing ~20km ish trips so you can get away with lower capacity pack. NiMH has about twice the energy density, and Lithium packs are 2-3 times better than NiMH.
I see a lot of people here have misconceptions about ebikes and exercise. I find I pedal as hard or harder riding an assisted bicycle than a regular bike. The difference is that I move at 42km/hr instead of 26, I don't slow down on the hills, and no matter how hard I work I don't get sweaty because the breeze at those speeds is so strong. This is a much overlooked fact of ebiking, the wind keeps you cool and dry.
Justin Lemire-Elmoreconsider that with an e-bike this guy can "roll" to work, and exercise on his way home ? All that's left is the battery-problem -- but if he resues the one from his car, then he really doesn't hurt the environment, does he ?
i ng.)
(Oh, ok, so he probably can't do that easily, and either the car would have to be left to rust, or he'd have to get a new battery for it -- but what got me was everyone doing the: Exerecise=Smell=fatburning!=drive=lazy=nosmell-th
What combination of I and E would be the collest
for my bike?
and hellava lot cheaper too!
I'm a perfectionist but I'm trying to cut back.
Can you actually imagine *anything* being posted here and these people *not* replying? The articles are just the seed for the bickering. It's what Slashdot is aaaaall about.
And another thing, newbies are the only people who would bother posting an Ask Slashdot question, because they haven't learned yet that their great ideas for questions will always be ignored.
PARENT IS A ****************copied******************* post.
MOD DOWN THE PLAGIARIST.
First of all, find out about local laws before spending money on anything; you may find that paying to hang a motor on a bicycle might not be worth the hassle where you live. Many places consider mopeds and motorized bicycles to be operated the same as bicycles, with no licensing or registration required. Other places require registration, licensing or both.
Secondly, if you do this, skip the electrics: the gas ones have much more power and range than the electrics and are still very cheap to operate, and you can still pedal the bike manually if you want. Plus: no recharging time! Just gas it up and go, anytime. As to buying a "real" moped, new ones are rather more expensive than a motorized bicycle, and old ones can be difficult to find parts for. Mopeds can be pedalled manually of course, but they aren't really meant for it and so aren't really good for it--it's just a legality required of the vehicle classification. If you want the option of exercise, a motorized bicycle is the better way to go.
...Incidentally, there's two main technical requirements of mopeds or motorized bicycles: that they have an engine of less than 2 horse power, and that they have pedals to allow manually propelling the vehicle without using the engine. The second reason is the reason that nearly all these current trendy electric and gas-powered mini-scooters are not street legal.
-fini-
This is a geek site. You're a geek, I'm a geek, we're all...
As a geek you need body activity because sitting behind the screen just doesn't get you any. So get yourself a regular/racing/mountain bike.
Within a couple of weeks you notice a better condition and an increasing average speed. And, if you really need to, you can add a cardio/speedometer to increase the geeky factor.
As a real geek you could also get into the details of bike training. The different body types and their specialties, the different goals in training (muscle building, endurance, agility, fat burning etc...), the food to take etc, etc...
I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
I have been biking to work now for almost a year. I've long since gotten in shape, and I have no problems with hills or smelling at work (just change cloths, it takes 1 minuet).
But there are days I just don't feel upto it. Seriously. Sometimes I just didn't get enough sleep, sometimes I'm sick (though rarely thanx to all that regular exercise), and sometimes I'm bruised from falling off my bike. So some times I'm just not capable of putting out that much effort.
It would be nice to have something that could pick up the slack. "Help" pedal as it were so that I can still ride my bike, even when I don't have the energy. There may be days when I don't have the energy to ride, but there is never a day that I don't want to ride.
That and for longer inter-city trips, some kind help would also be good.
But batteries don't have any where near the power density for longer intercity trips. And the system ways so much that it's more of a burden than a help on daily commutes. (since most days you won't need it)
I know I'll get flaimed for it, but what about a small petrol/gas motor? Easy to refule, there often made light weight, and have the power to make a real difference in both scenarios.
I would rather be ashes than dust!
Whatever you do, don't lock your magicbike up with your Kryptonite U-lock.
A project a friend of mine was involved in a project that designed and built a hybrid pedal-electric bike with regenerative capabilities. Only down side is that it doesn't use a hub motor, so there's more to mount on the bike than just the batteries and control module.
t m
http://www.iit.edu/~ipro315/Fall2003/Calendar.h
They got a sweet frame donated from Santa Cruz because they sponsor my friend in triathalons and bike races. I don't know if the project is currently operating, but if you'd like to know more, I can put you in touch with the people from the project. Just drop me an email.
"I threw up my hands in disgust and wondered if it had been such a good idea to have eaten my hands in the first place."
You know,
/. type of stuff.
when I read the subject and frontpage bit, i thought he was building a bike, that took care of his email needs, and had a build in laptop, and other geeky
It turns out however to be the other kind of E (lectric iso lectronic)
Have you considered a moped type bike ?
Well, you have to admit, its a rarity you can't/don't want to bike to work.
Does it make sense to buy a motorized bicycle for this purpose? Especially when you can take the subway/bus/cab?
I guess if you are in the middle of nowhere, where truly you hae to own your own transportation, this could work. But in the vast majority of places, there ARE other options that are more expensive than biking, and nowhere near as fast (during typical rush hour conditions)... but thats why we bike.
I don't read or respond to AC posts
I have been considering the e-bike idea (when my office moves to the far end of the city next spring). I haven't done alot of shopping yet but one of the best add-on units I've seen so far seems to be the BionX system http://www.eps-system.com/en/ . The one bike shop guy that I talked to said it was a very smooth system (compared to a Giant Lafree that he bought earlier). But it is a little expensive. :(
been updated in quite a while, but http://www.eruditium.org/cmefford/
At a recent Aprilia open house, I saw a power-assisted mountain bike. It only assisted -- when you stopped pedaling, it did nothing to help. But it had some intelligence as to how much effort your were exerting and you could dial it up or down if you needed. Unfortunately, I don't know anyone who owns one that could give a testimonial.
Yahoo has a newsgroup devoted to this type of thing. You might want to check with them.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/power-assist/
A guy in the 1930's lost an eye in an industrial accident and after healing up a bit, went to see a specialist in prosthetics about a replacement. He was shown glass eyes that looked almost like the real thing, but were way out of his price league, this being the Depression.
The salesman heard about the man's financial woes and said "Well, we do have some painted wooden eyes here. They were used back in the Civil War as a replacement. Here, i'll get one.". The man tried it on and was fitted with one. It wasn't perfect, but it was better than walking around looking like a pirate with an eye patch. Moreover, he could afford it. He left relatively happy.
That night, he went to a dance. He got there a bit late and found all the ladies were dancing except for one. She was a little heavyset but otherwise attractive. So, with newfound confidence, he walked over and asked if she would like to dance. Dumbfounded, she answered, "Would I? Would I!". His face turned sour and he taunted her, "Fat ass! Fat ass!".
Hey it was a 1930's joke, gimme a break.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
Does someone want to donate a direct-conversion methanol fuel cell to the project?
If you're interested in throwing a lot of money (yours or someone else's) into the project, you're better off going with an advanced battery chemistry, like lithium ion or nimh. The fuel cell battery charger you pointed to delivers 50 watts. This would not be acceptable for moving a bike down the road, for the same reason that fuel cells are not [yet] acceptable for moving cars -- they require too much mass to generate enough power. At 6kg (without fuel) this fuel cell has a specific power of a little over 4 w/kg. Lithium ion can give over 350-400 w/kg, especially if packaged in large cells. And though specific energy is very high, lithium ion is actually considered fairly crappy in terms of power output, compared with other battery chemistries.
MetricMind's lithium ion batteries are sized for a car, but their specs are useful as an example:
http://metricmind.com/battery.htm
And unless it runs on pure hydrogen, it emits exhaust. It's a little cleaner than a combustion engine, it's quiet, and a little more efficient (compared to burning the methanol and generating the electricity conventionally), but right now, batteries are just a better solution.
I've recently had a chance to try out the WaveCrest TidalForce bike, powered by NiMH batteries. At 750W (approx 1HP), it's a pretty fun ride:
http://tidalforce.com/
I currently live in a large Southern city with roads that are barely suitable for cars... Sidewalks are in bad shape, and you're likely to get killed if you try to share the road.
What cities are going to be more bike-friendly? Is there a portion of the country that encourages this type of transportation?
Try biking for work http://www.souppeddler.com/ best job I've ever had.
Can you be anymore lazy? Next thing you will want to do is attach a motor to you lazyboy recliner chair and drive it to work. You could definitely use the exercise gained by a bike without a motor!
Montreal has more than 300 km of bike paths and bike lanes. A lot of people use bikes for commuting, even in winter.
At the current rate of depletion, the global extraction rate for all petroleum is expected to arrive in 2005-2006. Any conservation of petroleum based fuels will only lessen the burden during the transition phase. For details on how the global oil crunch is unfolding, I suggest you do some research regarding peak oil. What you find will surprise you.
Get your free Dropbox account with 2 GB Free storage!
Zapworld.com sells a do-it-your-self kit to attach a battery pack and motor to your bicycle.
It turns a regular bike into a battery-assisted bike for going faster, going up hills, etc.
I would have gotten one years ago except I'm too short and the frame size of my bike isn't large enough to accommodate the batter pack.
Why use electricity, anyway ? How about a tiny jet turbine burning methanol or butane ?
Finagle, the patron saint of the Second Law, doesn't like low-entropy intermediates. Help stamp out electricity !
I put an am/fm/cassette player radio AND a CB radio on my lawn tractor! I certainly understand the appeal to having a radio on a bicycle. I only have one hand held 2 meter, else I'd probably add one of those too. And I'm seriously contemplating adding a laptop or a 12 volt mini itx rig, for a variety of reasons. I also added an additional heavy truck battery in parallel with the tiny stock 12 volt battery that comes in those things, hung it on a rack off the rear of the thing where the additional weight greatly improves traction going up hill, it lets me tow my little work wagon better without using dumb wheel weights that add little functionality besides their weight. I use this thing almost daily working around the complex where I live.
I think it's because once you get used to having full time communications of some sort, you feel nekkid without it. Or something.
That's why we are geeks and nerds and not "straights". We think straight people are weird because if someone (society, consumer pressure brainwashing, etc) doesn't tell them to do something, they never do anything different, they are ultimate follow the herd mentality which gives us the buckwheats. It is hard coded DNA someplace, we as geeks and nerds have the "gotta do it no matter whut!" gene.
I had the DX kit from ZAP for several years when I was at college in San Francisco. I had a number of interesting experiences.
I opted for the dual battery kit because the claims of distance on a charge were optimistic by about a factor of two. I'm sure if you were on some ultralight bike riding on perfectly flat roads at low speed you could achieve the rated numbers, but in the real world cranking up twin peaks with both you and the motors straining for all you're worth it was alot shorter.
The motor will become less efficient as it heats up. It will heat up as it has to provide more torque, so it will usually quit right on the steepest hill in your journey about the time you've become too tired to pedal the heavy bike without it. Then you'll walk the rest of the way up.
If you have a friction drive like the zap kit did, where the motor drives the wheel via a roller that rides on the tire, it will be useless anytime the tire is wet, dusty, or you're going up a hill where it produces significant resistance. The solution I found to this was to install an extra gear shift on the handlebars, and run a line down the frame to a point opposite the motor. Then ran the cable to a convenient mounting hole in the motor casing so that when I pulled the lever the motor would be pulled into the tire. This let me keep traction in any condition, even snow. I showed this to some people from zap, and they thought it was great. But not great enough to put in their kits apparently. I also designed a roller that worked kind of like a thick spring that could change diameter with pressure so using this you could change gear ratios, but that never went anywhere either. If anyone wants the design to work on building it, let me know.
It won't electrocute you or short out in the rain, even in El Nino, even if you're stupid and go out in El Nino and get drenched. Your brakes however, will fail when they're hydroplaning on your rims as you careen down into the Noe valley at breakneck speeds.
Bike thieves will still steal your bike despite the fact they don't have the charger for it. Either that or someone will steal your battery and headlight and smash them in the street for no good reason. Kryptonite locks will not save you, it'll still be stolen even in broad daylight at a busy mall. I gave up after losing 2 bikes.
If you have to transport it a long distance, like to another state, don't ship it, fly with it. Most airlines have a flat $50 bike fee, just get a bike box from the local bike shop and pack it. Pack your batteries seperately in your luggage on top, so you can show them to the people at the counter in the airport before they check your bag. Lead acid gel cells are safe for commercial airline trainsport, and will likely have this printed on the batteries themselves, as mine did.
If you use the bike every day expect to replace your batteries every year or two, as they'll wear out.
Beware of other cyclists, alot of them will be mad at you for "cheating".
You'll hear lots of interesting things about better technologies, such as improved lithium ion batteries, and small fuel cells which are always "just around the corner". I waited and searched for 5 years to get either one. Even when they actually demonstrated a bike with the same kit as mine running on a li battery with half the weight and 6 times the range, they wouldn't sell it to me. They went on to make $450 laptop batteries instead and refused to license the tech to anyone interested in other applications and refused to build any other size or shape batteries unless you wanted like 100,000 units. As for the fuel cells, saw one on a bike too. But they were always experimental and "Oh we'll have this out in 2 years." It won't happen anytime soon.
You'll also hear about new and improved electric vehicles that are
Introducing the new Occam Fusion! Now with sqrt(-1) fewer blades!
Bloody moped pussies.
censorship is a form of noise, which actively seeks to drown out content with silence - Crash Culligan
(just change cloths, it takes 1 minuet).
One French dance in triple time, of rustic origins but popular in the courts of 18th-century Europe.
Come on, I don't have that kind of time (or talent).
I'ma regular rollerblader. Eight miles roundtrip three days a week to/from work, 10-11 months of the year (In boston, Feburary is a little too cold to blade).
I find the days when I'm exhausted are the days I feel the best after I exercise. Try it, you'll like it.
It is nice to see, in the midst of a bunch of off topic rants, an actual answer to the question. I'm a regular cyclist and used to do road racing, so I'll admit that I don't find the electric component to be compelling. You confirmed my suspicion that the added weight of the batteries becomes an albatross when the juice is low.
-- Solaris Central - http://w
So to summarize, I'm not going to take up a lane until my average speed is closer to a reasonable car speed, definitely not going to do it until my top speed at least reaches the speed limit. *shrug* Until then, I take as much advantage as I can of back roads, bike trails, and pedestrian bridges to avoid the main traffic routes.
This sig has absolutely no significance and serves only to take up screen space and waste the time of the reader.
Hey, before you go drop $1000 on an electric bike, you need to consider this question: who is going to work on your bike when it inevitably breaks? Scanning through the thread and looking at web pages, I can tell you that pretty much every one of these "e-Bikes" has an electric motor mounted on a department store-grade bicycle. The motor drive makes up the lion's share of the bike's cost and you are ending up with a cheap steel (probably not even chro-moly) frame, crappy no-name low-grade derailluers and heavy, poorly-constructed steel wheels.
As a guy who grew up in his family's bicycle stores, let me tell you, I highly doubt that you are going to be able to find anybody to work on your e-bike when it breaks. Bike shops are usually reluctant to work on department store-grade bikes because you often end up breaking them even more when trying to fix them. Even if you have the mechanical skills to repair your own bike, the parts they use are often of non-standard size and replacements are not usually available. Keep in mind, I'm just talking about the bicycle that this e-bike is based on. When your local bike shop sees the motor on the wheel, they are going to cry.
Please, do yourself a huge favor and go to your locally-owned bicycle store and pick yourself up a quality name-brand bicycle. We sell Trek, Klien, and Gary Fisher, but Specialized and Cannondale are also pretty good, too. For the price of your e-bike, you'll get a high quality aluminum frame, durable Shimano components, tough aluminum alloy wheels, and a friendly local dealer who will gladly repair your bike if it breaks. At our store, customers get a free 30-day tune-up and subsequent minor adjustments are generally free for the first couple of years.
If you *really* don't want the life-improving effects of cycling and want power-assist, go get yourself a cheap, used Honda scooter or something.
Good luck,
Chris
There's really no reason not to get a real bike. It's faster, more efficient, better for you, and better for everyone else too. I think I know what the problem is here:
You can't squeeze your ample posterior into those sleek lycra bike shorts. Here's what you do, my friend.
Take the shorts and duct-tape them to the refrigerator. Then the next time you go to get beer/soda/ice cream/etc., you'll see them there and think, "If I keep stuffing my face I'll never fit into these sleek lycra shorts." Then go do 20 situps instead.
You may want to tape another pair of shorts near whereever you keep the chips.
Finally, a (real) bicycle is one of the greatest gadgets ever created. It is THE most efficient mode of transportation. It has been refined for over a century.
It requires you to do some work, but it will pay back your input with improved health, better physique, and increased energy.
Plus, you get to be a bike snob, too. Welcome.
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It comes down to this, in the experience of an e-bike-experienced friend:
Are there big hills on your route?
If the hill is big enough, you need a rig that can put out enough power to bring you up that hill. Because the only thing worse than pedaling a nice light road bike up a hill is pedaling a heavy e-bike with an ineffective motor and a heavy-ass lead acid battery up that same hill.
My friend was fortunate enough to live in Seattle where it was possible to "try before you buy." She wound up with something halfway between an electric motorcycle and a bike. It was a STEEP hill.
Personally I tend to side with the "just pedal" crowd, unless you're talking about serious hills on days when you have a nasty head cold, etc. I can see wanting a little boost then.
Lead-acid is a poor choice because of its low energy density. The amount of extra work you do pedaling the bike when you feel like it or have run out of power needs to be less than the amount of work the motor does for you while it's running!
(No, I'm not saying I have analyzed any of the above variables definitively, but I *am* passing on a real ebike-evaluation story from someone who was ultimately happy with her purchase.)
Check out the Apostrophe open-source CMS: http://www.apostrophenow.com/
Professionals go at about 50km/h for short distances (100km). This is on a road bike on flat terrain. But they usually travel in packs
Even in time trials, riding individually against the clock, professionals can ride faster than that. Average speeds in road races (when riding in a pack) are often only around 40km/h because the pack is not really "racing" a lot of the time; sometimes they are just cruising along, waiting for something to happen or for someone else to do something, particularly early in a race. If the pack is actually racing from the very start, expect the average speed on a flattish, 200km course to be 50km/h+
You take a mountain bike... friction from tires and that drops you to about 30km/h with no wind.
You had better hope you always have maximum friction between your tires and the ground no matter what kind of bike you ride, or else your bike will soon be going sideways.
It is the increased rolling resistance of mountain bike tires, not a difference in friction which will slow you down; imagine rolling an octagon rather than a circle.
RTFM; please, I beg you.
Peddling != Pedalling.
Get it?
I found four or five really useful suggestions in here. Good links too. Thanks for that.
Golden Motor may be tough to deal with, but no horror stories.
Stay away from the Zap! motor (I knew that).
Lead Acid batteries will be OK for now. NiMH is better, Li Polymer is best, but tempermental.
The bike will be a thief magnet (I knew that too).
Where I live, I will probably pick up more chicks with the e-bike than a Harley. They probably won't be as much fun though.
Check on local licensing regs.
To the bike snobs - I have an efficient Cannondale road bike, and I ride it often. I wear Lycra shorts. The motor is going on my police auction mountain bike.
To the "get off your fat ass" trolls - my blood pressure is lower than yours, my cholesterol is lower than yours, I swim laps several times a week, and I know the difference between peddle and pedal.
My commute is 15 miles with some hellish hills. As several people pointed out, I don't want to stink the place up when I get there.
And finally, having modpoints while your story is up really r0x0rz.
I can usually maintain 35km/h effortlessly, but with this beast 45km/h could be the crusing speed if peddling and motoring can go hand in hand.
Wouldn't go any faster on a pedal bike, leave that to the stunt people.
Really?
What kind of bike are you on? You should be plenty stable up to 40mph (~65km/h). I hit that on almost every ride I go on (I live at the bottom of a few rather large hills, every ride I do ends in a steep decent). Hell 3 weeks ago I was on a 70 mile ride, and I went down a long ~10% grade, I hit 54mph (~87km/h) I didn't feel the least bit unstable until about 50mph, and it was still quite managable the whole way. The pro's in europe routinly break 100km/h coming down mountains.
And I ride a rather cheap 2002 Giant OCR2 (~$800), I have been told that high speed handling is one of the places where the expensive bikes actually do much better.
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
I personally own and use a eGo cycle from eGo Vehicles, a small Rhode Island company.
I highly recommend them. Start at $1000. Goes 23 mph for about 23 miles per charge. Charges in about 3 hours. Looks great. Quiet. Mine has turn signals, lights, brake lights, electric horn, etc. Climbs hills amazingly well -- they don't even supply peddles because you don't need them. Acceleration is great. Contact me if you're interesting -- I think I can get you ~$50 off the listed prices. (no promises)
If you want a bicycle for exercise, go for it. But the eGo is an easier, faster (unless you're Mr. Armstrong), and safer way to get to work.
I use a ZAP Electricruiser and it's great. I looked at the in-hub motors but there is no way to disconnect them if you run out of power. The ZAP drive works against the tire and can be lifted off the tire if you don't want to use it. The one I have came with a 20AH 12 volt battery which makes it convenient but not good enough. I made an adapter and bought a 35AH battery that works better.
http://www.zapworld.com/products/dxkit_bike.asp
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~pattle/nacc/arc0 531.htm
http://slashdot.org/~GuyFawkes/journal
That's pretty much all I want to know.
I haven't tried them in working project yet but there are a couple electric car projects that used them with success. Lot of output.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
What was wrong with the Bay Area commute experience? Sounds like it was good to me!
One important thing worth mentioning to anyone that's considering cycling with or without an assisting motor is to learn how to operate the vehicle correctly. And I mean really learn! There are skills and behavior appropriate to bicycling that many people that drive (and unfortunately a sizeable number that cycle occasionally) seem to have no idea about.
The main point to remember is that the bicycle is considered a vehicle with some variant abilities and should be ridden as such. The clearest exponent of this is John Forester (a road-traffic engineer who spent years collecting empiricial data on how experienced club-cyclists ride), who codified his work into a tome called "Effective Cycling". There's a short, amusing and mostly accurate quiz to take here which encapsulates many of these ideas.
Many people's disinclination to cycle is based upon fear due to their lack of understanding of how to ride with traffic.
What is your point? Arriving to work sweaty?
1. Not everyone lives in US SouthEast. So hot mornings are not a problem for everyone
2. Besides, a lot of larger companies have showers, if that's what you meant
3. And yes, you can wash yourself even w/o showers
My bike has a 24 volt power supply. The motor is mounted on the back wheel with its dedicated chain and gear, on the opposite side of the deraileur. The bike is a standard cheap heavy duty mountain bike with front suspension. Currie sells just the kits for around $400 and the complete bikes for around $800. My county offered a generous rebate for electric bikes, without which I would not have bought this one. I used to live about 13 miles from work. The electric bike was good for beating rush hour. It is heavy as fuck. It starts out on a heavy mountain bike, then add 10 pounds for the motor and 40 pounds for the lead acid battery. It is too slow; to be legally ridable in California without a motorcycle license it must be geared for a top speed of 20 mph. I wish I had bought a 36 volt system so I could swap out the drive gear for a little more speed. Now I live about 25 miles from work, which is beyond the battery capacity of my style of riding (full throttle on the motor, pedalling as hard as I can--plus the battery is 3 years old and doesn't hold its full charge anymore). I will occasionally drive the bike in my car to a parking lot halfway to work, and ride the remainder. This is where heavy as fuck, and the small motor jutting out on one side hurt me. I still arrive at work sweaty and disheveled. Only the sweaty part is unusual, though--and nobody cares if geeks are sweaty in my office. The difference is I am not exausted from riding a standard bike as fast as I can for 13 miles. I am rarely passed by another bicyclist or e-bicyclist. I am definitely faster than traffic at rush hour. Your in-hub 36 volt bike looks promising. Expect it to be heavy as fuck. Don't expect to find an alternative to lead-acid any time soon, unless you're prepared to fork over serious dough. Expect to find a million standard bicyclists bitching about how you should buy a road bike and have your work install a shower for every person with practical advice about e-bikes.
Here is a "best of breed" you can dream about. http://www.tidalforce.com/
Check out the Yahoo discussion groups. Also, importing a "one-of" from China has proven very difficult. You might be better off getting one of the zapbikes kits.
If you burn more than you eat you will lose weight.
I burned ~6000 Calories this weekend running and biking. You gonna tell me that doing that all the time is not going to make me lose weight?
Also you left something out of your equation, the number of calories/lean pound/day you burn can be increased by doing cardio. Doing both cardio and weight training is the best way to lose weight. I lift for 1.5 hours twice a week, bike 1-2 times a week for 2-6 hours, and run 3-5 times a week for 1-3 hours. I am losing weight on a 5000 calorie a day diet, mostly comprised of complex carbs. You think I could lose wieght eating that much on just lifting 3 hours a week?
Cardio is good for working your heart but it won't make you lose weight.
The stupidity of this statment is obvious to anyone who has ever attended a post race party. Most runners are freakishly skinny, and eat like horses.
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
I keep a towel under my desk @ work. (do you know where your towel is?) And shower EVERY day. But a good strong deoderant helps. BTW: Anti-persperant makes it worse; since if you apply it before the ride you'll just sweat elsewhere.
In all honestly, I've never had a complaint from coworkers. But a shower (& Gym) at work would be awsome beyond compare.
Now here's a discussion I never thought I'd have at slashdot.
I would rather be ashes than dust!
I get to work on a go-kart powered by my own sense of self satisfaction.
I've been bike commuting for about 14 years now (yikes!) in three different cities, and the e-bike just seems like more hassle than a real bike. I see people using things like that to commute from the parking lot to their office, but it seems like more hassle than it's worth.
advantages of the e-bike:
- extra boost when you're tired
- slight improvement in cruising speed (at least until you get in shape)
- high geek-factor
disadvantages:
- more parts to maintain
- heavy batteries (even light batteries weigh more than none) that you have to haul around with your legs when you get too far from home and the juice runs out.
- if it drives the tire rather than the hub you'll go through tires a lot faster
I actually looked at electric vs. gasoline cars when I replaced my car several years ago. I decided that the electric car couldn't do anything for me that a regular bike didn't already do (shorter range, similar carrying capacity, it doesn't rain here so that doesn't matter). Hybrids made more sense, but for a reasonable fraction of my driving (hauling bikes up mountain roads) were way underpowered.
These days I actually find it much more hassle to drive a car to work (about 5 miles each way, total elevation gain on the asymmetric round trip about 900-1000 ft) than to pedal. I rode about 8 miles each way, with less elevation change, for about 5 years.
Whether you smell at work or not depends on a lot of variables. If it's dry out and your sweat evaporates fast, you generally won't smell bad if you shower before you leave home. If it's humid, a shower or even quick wash in the sink combined with anti-perspirant can keep you smelling fresh as springtime. And changing clothes is generally a good idea either way.
i've rode a regular bicycle to and from work for four years now,
and its incredibly reliable -- i live in toronto where there's snow and
slush for three months of the year, and i just can't see how one of
these eBikes would make it through similair conditions.
there's ice and snow and slush, and you just got to be able to go through it
as a matter of course -- with the bicycle, its never been a problem.
also, you don't have to go looking places to charge the thing. just put
some oil on the chain to keep it from rusting through the winter,
dress warm, and you're all set.
also when its cold -- if you're pedaling your own bike, you're making your
own warmth, and you end up feeling warmer than on something that is
providing the power for you.
the exercise of pedaling a bike keeps you warmer, more fit, and is
an order of magnitude more reliable than a complicated electrical assembly.
for RELIABLE transport to work, an ebike makes a nice toy for the fair weather,
but it just can't match the reliability and low cost of a real bike.
2cents
j
electric bikes don't make much, if any sense. You add a bunch of weight for a little added torque.
Take your money and buy a recumbent - get a more efficient drive train and a more comfortable seat and a better view. Plus people will shout out "Cool!" instead of muttering "Man, what a sissy, can't even pedal for himself!"
If you're cheap you can get a Cycle Genius CGX or a Sun EZ-1 or one of the China Mascot imports (google for 'actionbent' or 'tsunami t-2') for about $500-600.
On a wedgie the maximum force you can apply to the pedals is roughly what gravity can give you. On a 'bent you're pushing between the seat and the pedals. All the bicycle speed records were set with recumbents.
I started riding a short wheel base recumbent about a week ago, and I'm never going back to a wedgie. Haven't mounted my cyclocomputer yet, so I dunno what to say about my average speed.
This is just like television, only you can see much further.
I think you'll find the number of lead acid batteries making it to the landfill (in the US, at least) to be less than 5%; last time I checked the recycling rate was over 95%.
... first thing that happens is the acid/water electrolyte is removed. The acid is neutralized with Caustic Soda. The resulting salt, Sodium Sulfate, is sold as a food-grade preservative. That's right ... food grade (there are other purification processes involved).
... and most of it heads right back to the battery manufacturing cycle.
... you can't landfill lead acid batteries. Most trash haulers keep a very close eye on what they put into their bins and trucks (believe me, if you lift a trash can with a battery in it, you'll know pretty quick. I have to add that it's not fool-proof (fools, after all, are known to be very creative in their foolishness), but based on the battery weight returned to smelters every year, it's pretty close.
Now a word about lead-acid battery recycling
The battery cases are plastic (polypropylene, pvc, or polycarbonate). The plastic is removed from the mix and is reground and used to make more battery cases.
The lead, lead oxide, lead sulfate, and any other lead compounds are melted in the smelter furnace. The alloy mixture is corrected (removing unwanted impurities) and the lead is cast into pigs (bar shape) and hogs (about 1 ton block). This lead is then resold
***
Besides the common sense values of not landfilling a used battery, there are economic and legal speed bumps toward unwanton dumping. The economic model is where you're required to return your old battery and receive a refund on your "core charge", usually $5-10 USD. With the typical auto SLI battery costing $35-45 USD, this is a pretty good incentive. There's also the legal requirement that the USEPA has mandated
I'm sure you're sick of the "why don't you just bike, fattie?" responses, so for a change of pace I thought I'd give you some useful info.H ub%20Motor%20Kit -- some of the links are broken, but mostly it's got good info.
A good FAQ is here: http://www.peltzer.net/ebike/PA_FAQ.htm
I've been researching electric bikes myself, as I live in Oakland -- and yes, I'm a fattie too. I can manage the flat bits pretty well, but the hills out here are killer.
One really useful page with lots of links to various manufacturers and honest opinions by actual users is http://electric-bikes.com/others-b.htm#Elebike%20
As I have a recumbent, a front-wheel system won't work for me. And as I have a drum brake, I need a friction drive. I ended up deciding on Palmer Industries (http://www.palmerind.com/pwrkit.htm). Their product line kinda resembles the Zap system, only they have more mounting options. Plus they're small and friendly. I talked for about a half hour with the engineer, who I think is the husband of the saleswoman -- it feels like a real "mom & pop" organization. They also have several bikes and trikes available.
As for being sweaty, I agree that you should bring a change of clothes, and I find that baby-wipes are great for a quick cleanup when there's no shower available.
Ignore the nimrods who just want to tear you down. It's great that you're looking into the e-bike thing. You don't have to be a triathlete, and doing some of the peddling will definitely help you get in shape, and the motor will help you with the bits that push your limits. An e-bike is far more ecofriendly than a car, and maybe a good stepping stone to "pure" biking. Or maybe not, and that's fine too.
My take? The motor+batteries+drivetrain provides enough power to overcome the extra weight of the motor+batteries+drivetrain. And when/if you're out and about, with a low battery....you have a 75lb bike to try to pedal around.
If you live in an apartment, you're in trouble. You can toos a regular bike over your shoulder no problem. A 75lb eBike is something else.
Be sure to beef up the kickstand, and watch the CoG. The Huffy model I tried would not stay upright on the stock kickstand (too much weight in the back).
eBikes aren't bicycles anymore, they're baby motorcycles/mopeds.
http://www.electricvehiclesnw.com/
Electic Bikes Northwest has some good information as well as a movie of one of the bikes climbing a serious hill. They seem to favor the kind of e-bikes that are activated by peddling. Something about the drive being about to provide power through the gears as opposed to a fixed gear ratio.
Every wrong attempt discarded is a step forward - T. Edison
At ZVO, we tackled that series of problems and created an e-bike that's light (39 lb.), easy to pedal and uses whatever gearing is currently on the bike -- from derailleurs to hub transmissions. As a result, we have a bike that will do over 35 MPH and climb hills, as well, without pedaling, but encourages dual drive modality -- pedal with motor assist -- for the most daunting hills while you're training.
http://www.zvoinc.com/
We don't think powering a bike is sacrilegeous. Anything that gets more people out among other folks and encourages a sense of community is a good thing. Anything that relieves road congestion is a good thing. Anything that encourages excercising more than the right foot is a good thing.
and a better riding position, fatter tyres soak up more of the bumps than skinny high pressure road tyres.
I rarely go offroad, but I bought a cheap aluminium mountain bike because of the riding position, lighter weight than a commuter style bike, and lower gearing. If I do occasionally want to take it offroad I can. I do agree about the shocks but I couldn't get an aluminium framed bike at the same price without the shocks.
Deleted
I've been biking about an hour a day during my lunch break for the last few months. I've managed to lose over 20 pounds as a result - even on a steady diet of pizza, steak & cheese subs, and Mountain Dew. I feel better, look better (according to my wife), and have more energy than before I started biking. Get an e-bike if you must, but do yourself a favor and ride under your own power as much as possible.
I love google.
. grubeeinc.com/grubeeinc%20product%20lin e.htm0 QQsofoc usZbsQQsbrftogZ1QQfromZR10QQsotrZ2QQcoactionZcompa reQQcopagenumZ1QQcoentrypageZsearch
This is ALMOST exactly what I'm looking for. Too bad he isn't selling yet.
http://revopower.com/main.php
However these guys ARE selling. It requires perminant mod's to the bike, so you'd have to get a second one, if you didn't want to always shlep the extra weight. The Eagle in particular looks exclenent (if expensive) since it is designed to allow you to pedal along with it. I'm not sure about the other types.
http://www.bikeengines.com/info.htm
http://www
http://search.ebay.com/Motorized-Bicycle_W
The only thing that could make these designes better is if you could quickly detatch the motors when not needed. something I've not seen in any "assist" design. And with a 250mi to a gallon range (105.7 kilometers per Liter) it's not so un-green after all. You can get extended tanks, which is a good idea since they all require mixed fuels.
I would rather be ashes than dust!
It's a long straight road, so some guy in a sporty little thing was speeding right by me and didn't even notice me. His side-view mirror slapped the back of my calf (it was a pretty low car, and my left leg must have been near the top of a pedal arc or something), but I was more shocked than hurt -- I got wobbly for a minute, but never quite fell over.
He realized after the fact that he hit something, so he stopped, and was apologizing up a storm. I think he was afraid I'd try to sue him, but I just told him to forget about it.
And then I bought a tail-light the next day. :-)
philcrissman.com.
I wear a blaze-orange vest and a white helmet with five blinking super-bright red LED's on the back. Doesn't prevent the occasional caddy-driver from locking up their brakes behind me when they suddenly "notice" that the thing in front of their car is suddenly getting closer.
The Web is like Usenet, but
the elephants are untrained.
I used two EV Warrior surplus motors at 24 volts and managed to go about 30 km/h. The shafts both connected to a friction roller with a one way clutch built in. The idea was that you could still peddal the bike without driving the motors.
I mounted the motors to an unused set of brake mounts (my bike has two, presumable to support different types of brakes). I used rope and turnbuckles to get some tension between the roller and the wheel.
What I discovered is friction drives aren't that great. I peeled more rubber off the wheel onto the roller than anything else. Even though it had a one way clutch it was still difficult to peddal. I also didn't have a controller which meant full power when you turned it on. This worked well when you're already going 20 km/h, but from a dead stop was a little rough.
The bike is a lot heavier with the batteries. But it was still a fun project.
I have also been looking for awhile. I'd like to compare notes with what you have found privately to aid both of us in a decision w/o all the flames and tangents. -K
I am sorry, but I would say that from working nearly 10 years the bike industry that the E Bike is junk. Just a step up from the bikes at Wal Marts.
Don't get suckered into their marketing, these bikes are a waste of money.
Buy a bike from a Bike shop. Shop around and find a shop that cares. If you buy a bike from a shop, you know its built right. IF you have never built a bike before, then don't try now, I doubt you can do it with out hands on instruction.
Also if you buy a bike from a shop you should have a service plan that lasts a year and includes a free tune up.
DONT BUY THE E BIKE!
Depends on your commute. I have both a mountain bike and a road bike, and have used both for commuting depending on the distance and road conditions.
;-(
Mountain bike tires deal much better with road debris, sand, gravel, unavoidable potholes, and have a much lower rate of flats than road bike tires. I like slicks for MTB commuting, which I have mounted on different, lighter wheels I custom built for commuting. When I want to go offroad, I swap wheels. I also have bars that give me a choice of an upright or more horizontal body position. I switch quite a bit between them on a commute depending on whether I have a clear stetch or not; I prefer a more upright position in heavy traffic due to better visibility and vision.
On the other hand, not only is a road bike much faster, I find a road bike much more comfortable over long distances (I think most experienced cyclists would). High quality tires and inner tubes make a huge difference to durability and ride as well. I'm a big fan of latex inner tubes, although you have to inflate them daily, the greater comfort, speed and lower puncture rate is well worth the effort. Going to latex and a tire with high tpi casing reduced my flat rate dramatically.
Overall, for short hop city commuting, with heavy traffic and poor roads, an ATB is a bit better in my experience. For commutes over good roads and with distnces of ten or so miles, I'd tend to road. Over fifteen miles I'd definitely go road bike no matter what. Personally, if I were living out in the country I'd be a lot more likely to use a road bike. If I were living in the city, I'd be much more likel to go ATB.
Unfortunately, this is all academic for me these days because my commute is 50 miles each way
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
I'm not sure I get the point of this. Why not just get yourself in good physical condition and just peddle the bike to and from work???
My favorite city bike is a mountain bike with rigid forks and fairly skinny tires (maybe twice the diameter of the average road tire). My tires are mostly slick and the hubs have low rolling resistance. Even though I have no shocks, it's very nice to hop a curb without damaging your wheelset. That's not even considering deep potholes that can ruin a road bike.
Mountain bikes are easier to maneuver, too, because of their smaller wheels. And although I did get a road bike, I got straight handle bars on it because drop bars suck, honestly. I think the drop bars are the number one reason people here in the US avoid road bikes.
On a semi-related subject, I've been thinking about converting an old Trek hybrid into a fixed-gear for commuting. Anyone have experiences to share with their fixed-gear bikes?
Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a soportar Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a espabilar
Has there been much research into ethenol fuel cells? Ethenol seems like it would be easer to produce then methenol, with all the corn out there, and it has so many other uses... :)
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Small gas engines are horrible for the planet, you are better off driving a car. E-bikes are heavy and slow making them a danger on the road. f*cking moped...
if you have too much $ and need some way to get rid of it, or if you're looking for an inventive manner to create some future (potentially toxic) landfill ... then this is a idea.
... get some exercise, commute to work, reduce vehicle costs, cut down on traffic, reduce global warming ... all at the same time!
bikes do not need to be high tech. use your muscles. kill two birds
It's not just for software anymore.
Nah, aerodynamics of the bike has little to do with performance. But then, maybe you mean of "bike + rider". That really does help a bit. The rider can produce a large amound of areo drag at airspeeds > 14mph or so.
One of the most important factors determining how aerodynamic a bike/rider combo is, is the position of the rider on the bike, which is largly determined by the bike.
When someone talks about a bike being aerodynamic, they mean that the rider is in a very forward leaning position when riding...
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
'a few times a week, weather permitting'
consider if regenerative braking is beneficial to your commute. flat, steady speed, probably not. hills, lots of stop and go, probably is. also, longer distance commute with start/stop and hills can benefit from reduced weight afforded by energy recovery through regenerative braking.
consider this is an experiment to see if you will
like e-bike. for that, you may not want the extra expense of exotic batteries. if it's a fairly short commute, the inexpensive motor and lead acid batteies will get you started and you can upgrade later. for lead acid batteries, choose something that is designed for deep discharge and you can size them to your commute. golf cart batteries may be a good option.
consider speed desired and efficiency (electrical to mechanical) in sizing your motor. there should be a good bit of data on human power output levels on www that you can scale according to the parameters of your machine/passenger. the spreadsheet is your friend here (open office)
don't forget to consider accessories and amenities
lights, big sub woofers, ogg-voorbis music player, flame thrower
maybe a classic moped or scooter would be a better choice. 100+ mpg, impress the non-vegan chicks who bath regularly
see http://www.mopedarmy.com for starters and banch out from there. for new moped you can get a nice chinese made with clone of honda motor that looks like a classic honda scooter for under $1000 in both 50cc or 90cc version
safer than a bicycle too if you're riding on the road.
if you go with a bicycle, PLEASE BUY AND USE A BELL. I walk to work and have developed a strong urge to shred cyclists who swoosh by my shoulder without sounding a bell first. 'on your left' is great until you have a run in with the cyclist who doesn't know right from left (estimate 20%+ of them)
You just need to pedal your fat ass where you go....lazy bum.
Actually, an e-bike can make alot of sense in the right circumstances. I would consider biking to work, except having survived several heart attacks at age 50, it is not prudent for me to push any cardio exercise too far. It doesn't help that my dad dropped dead on an exercise bike at age 58.
Still, I'd like to do my part for the environment and get a safe amount of exercise in the bargain, but the 500 foot hill between me and work is a real obstacle. This e-bike thingy could be just the thing for me.
Sadly, while I'd like to hear a real discussion of the pros and cons of the available technologies, I instead have to wade through post-after-post made by arrogant idiots who cannot imagine that there might actually be people out here that could derive some benefits from e-bikes.
Life is bigger than you, and you are not me...
Tard is not a word.
Get it?
Read my lips you anonymous green twit:
250mi per gallon!
Electric don't come from nowhere, it has to be generated. And since we shut down all the nuclear powerplants because of reactionist nutballs, and hammer toting physisits (who didn't listen to Teller), we generate most of that from coal and natural gass. Neither of which is great for the environment either.
(then again if we listened to Teller we'd be using A-Bombs to clear mountain ranges... they can't all be gems)
The name of the game isn't perpetual motion machines, and fancies about renewable energies that are still 50 years off (and even then wofully inadequate). It's about efficiency. And at 250mpg I'm not too worried about the environmental impact.
If your still worried about renewables and CO2 (and cowfarting etc.) there are plenty of synthetic methods of power such engines, such as biomass fules. It couldn't be too hard to swap out some of these motors for diesel biofule motors. Since most of these motors already require mixed fules, you might as well go the rest of the way an make your own fule.
I would rather be ashes than dust!
Check it out at my website, though I haven't done much on it in a while (maybe more will get done this winter). Basically, I took two bike frames (a women's 26" and a girl's 20"), cut them apart, and rewelded them into a recumbent frame. I plan on using a 90VDC motor likely running 12 or 24 VDC, coupled to the rear wheel via the chain. For the first run, it will be a direct switched system - maybe later I will add a controller. So far, it has been a fun "off-and-on" again project. Nothing too difficult to do - though I wonder how well it will work in the end. Something else to consider: I plan on using Amerityre's bicycle road-tread tires to cut down on friction, etc...
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
I built an ebike about three years ago. These links were very helpful to me to get ideas:
i st/ - yahoo group for motor assisted bicycles.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/ - photo album of electric car, bike, etc. designs.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/power-ass
I used a mountain bike, EV warrior motors (dual dc motors with friction drive with the back wheel), a pulse modulated speed control, and deep cycle AGM batteries. The original design is on this page.
http://webpages.charter.net/schiavoneaj/ebike/
I have made a few modifications to the design: 1) I moved the motors further back because they got too hot being so close to my legs, 2) I moved the batteries to each side of the back tire because it was too top heavy, and I made a better speed controller housing.
I can get around 16 mph and a range of 8 - 10 miles with two 12V 17 amp hour batteries (total of 24 V driving the motors).
And contrary to all the fat ass comments, it was fun to build, is fun to ride, and I do get exercise because I pedal in addition to using the motor.
slower but healthier
Why no shocks that use the resistance from a copper/magnet drag to recharge?
>> ... if you drink it, it will pickle your liver.
Not only that, if you're lucky, you'll get blind.
More frequently, though, you die quickly (I mean in a matter of hours, after going into a coma). Such symptoms are already quite known, I am not making this up.
Do not toy with this thing.
For a while they stocked cheaper units, but started getting them back really quickly. Ben showed me the drive gears from these Chinese motors; they were soft metal, and had worn out in a couple of hundred miles.
Heinzmann make a range of motors, from low power, long range to high performance short duration units. Check which of these (if any) are road legal in your area.
...or get out of the way.
Seriously, riding a bike on roadways is dangerous - you are going slower than the flow of traffic and possibly illegally so. You're annoying the other drivers - drivers who have PAID for the roads with fuel taxes. Yes, people who buy fuel really do have more of a right to use the roads.
While you probably don't care, you'll eventually encounter some asshole who does something careless to pass you and ends up getting you seriously injured. Put yourself in the position of the driver - when you're making car payments, buying fuel, and to top it off you're already late from traffic, ending up behind someone on a bicycle can be a very frustrating situation. Some people actually have deadlines and don't have the luxury of taking their time getting to their destination at a leasurely pace.
I'm not trying to flame, I'm just saying that you DO have a right to use the road like any other public utility provided you contribute your fair share (taxes) and don't disrupt the normal flow of traffic. No one likes someone who pisses in the pool.
---
DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
Did you say you've lost weight?
Being alive is dangerous, believe it or not, it will end in death.
Having said that: I paid for the roads with my taxes too AND I even own a car I have ANY right to be on the road as you do, like it or not. If you have temper issues, maybe you need to get some professional help.
How sad, he has a bad day, so I better don't be where he might get (needlessly) aggrevated over it? If it aggrevates him so much that he blows all the money on fuel, car payments, insurance (which will go up quite a bit if he hits me, not to meanson he might make the car payments from jail)... Well, maybe he should sell the car and get on a bike. Or: Get professionell help.
Then I suggest to some people that they plan their day better and only do as much as they can safely do instead of thinking the world has to bend to their wishes.
I am not "impeding the flow of traffic" I am not on a highway, I am on a normal road way and the law gives me the right to be there, if you can't get that in your head I suggest you walk (not drive) to the next police station and hand in the keys before you kill someone and find yourself in jail where you can't even walk anywhere.
Not that I am trying to flame, just pointing things out for you.
If you want to e-mail me, use my PGP Key.
Peddling
Pedaling / Pedalling
Amen
What a dick!
Bicycles are recognized as vehicles in many state's vehicle code. Bicycles put much less wear and tear on the road surface than a car, so why should they need to pay taxes to support a road surface made for heavier vehicles. He is contributing his fair share, since a bicycle on a road provides negligible wear and tear on the road surface. The weather and the cooling and heating cycles of a normal day put more wear and tear on the road than a small lightweight bicycle. Pay attention before you spout your uneducated libertarian rant.
In the USA, roads were placed before fuel taxes existed. Fuel taxes only pay for a portion of road maintenance.
I built my own electric bike as a mobility aid to get to the local shops. I wear two separate leg braces and pedaling was not an option, I also have a very large steep hill between me and the shops. I bought the Slipstream Electric Bicycle plans and modified them a bit. I've had the bike now for over 4 years and I figure around 3,000 miles, very nice ride.
Max speed 29 mph in about 4 seconds (beat a few motorcycles from the stop, but only if they did not know we were racing)
Range 30 miles with new batteries.
Parts cost $2,000.
Since the photos, I've upgraded to downhill wheels and hubs w/disk brakes.
make sure you get a bike which has, at some point in the drive train, a torque measuring device that will match your own efforts with assisted power.
the last thing that you want is a speed controller.
it's pretty straightforward to replace one or both of the pedal cranks with cranks that have torque measuring devices: any [really] serious cyclist will have a heart-rate monitor, speedometer _and_ torque measuring to determine how much pressure they're exerting on the pedals.
then you turn that into amps...