I am not a gamer, but reading the reviews it seems that the ATI cards are conservatively clocked to allow their partners to sell at higher clocks, but also give the users a utility which has a simple slider to OC. So we are talking about somewhat "manufacturer-sanctioned" overclocking that is done by simply moving a slider on a software utility. For the specific ASUS card tested, an ASUS utility was also included which can even increase the voltage for higher speeds (the HardOCP unit was stable at 1GHz). It is similar to CPU's, not all people will OC but I personally chose a C2D over an Athlon/Phenom (this was before Phenom II), because even though at my price point AMD was sort of competitive, I simply set the C2D at a 20% OC on stock cooling and it is running along happily crunching data 24/7 for the last year or so... So while not everyone will use OC capabilities, it is certainly an advantage and should be treated so.
Replying to my own post above, I actually quickly went through the ExtremeTech article (ok ok take back my/. badge) and confirmed why it is not one of my "preferred" sites. To call the nVidia better they divide the cost by the FPS over the games they tested. Yes, the raw FPS over different games, doesn't need a PhD in statistics to figure out the problem here. Then, they admit that the ATI overclocks very well (with the included utilities from ATI and ASUS), while the nVidia does not, but instead of stating this as an advantage for the ATI card they complain about the cards not shipping at the higher speeds they can easily attain. And finally, they list the nVidia at "$250 street est." price, while the ATI as "MSRP $259" when the latter is right now selling NOW on NewEgg for $230 after MIR or $250 directly. Great Job ExtremeTech!
Hmm, both articles I read today from my preferred sites (HardOCP and Anandtech) said that it was a close call, but the ATI a bit faster (and the only one actually available for purchase).
Anyway, my gaming days are long gone (except the occasional Wii sports & Civilization), so it is a moot point for me...
Quite predictably, no one complained about my Vista bashing, but a Mac fan promptly showed up to complain:) First of all, my post, according to the spirit of the thread, was about hardware. You conveniently threw in software and your "right to spend more" in the question. Again, the hardware is 2.5x more. Period. Secondly, I did not tell you or anyone how to spend their money, but I repeat that from a hardware standpoint "most people" will not need to spend much more than $500. Lastly, and it was only a postscript as my post was about hardware, I did not call Mac users idiots. I am currently a Mac user myself (at work), which is why I constantly get the feeling that the GUI was not designed with power users in mind (plus ergonomics sacrificed for "dazzle"). So, I can't say Mac users are idiots in general, but judging from your post you yourself would indeed fall into my (own) definition for "idiot". Said definition is not about IQ, but includes irrational fixations with specific corporations and their products, as well as the inability to process logical arguments regarding those products;)
Sorry if it came out as a flaimbait, but... I read on this very site that the argument has been concluded. It is pretty clear from that nice summary that "KDE will thrive".
I just bought my wife (not fictional I swear!) a new laptop. She wanted something up to 14" and not too heavy. I got her a Lenovo Y430, which was listed at $499 on lenovo.com, and there was a $100 off coupon at the time so it actually came down to $399+tax. For that price we got a 2.16GHz Dual Core T3400, 2GB DDR3, 160GB hd, DVDR etc. What more could we possibly want in a laptop. Myself, I have a 1 month old Macbook that my company bought me due to required dev work. The thing has a smaller screen (13.3") but still weighs more! It has almost the same specs (yeah, ok it has an nVidia so I can enjoy all the great Mac games - woohoo - but has smaller HD & DDR2), yet it cost $999 + tax! Two and a half times more for what? There really is no reason why most people would want to spend more than $500 for a regular laptop, or perhaps a *little* more for a 17" one, however at some point you have to realize that it is not a laptop what you really need. Well, ok there is a valid reason to spend more, that is if you want netbook weight but notebook screen & power, but that is a very special market (to which Apple came pretty late as any xkcd reader would realize). PS. Note that I did not go into the OS dilemma. I consider Vista designed by idiots & Mac OS designed for idiots, so whatever you buy you'll have to install a nice KDE based Linux (SuSE for me) or Windows XP if you mostly need Windows software.
How is this like google maps? I expected at least street view (you' ve seen how they did it in Tron) not to mention there is not even basic address search.
Is it at least the kernel map of a beowulf cluster node?
As you said, it is not "a" show, it is better described as a "genre" or "sub-genre". Also, it lacks the "sci" out of "sci-fi". But then again some people like to count count Star Wars or even LOTR as sci-fi;)
For the love of god! I logged on just to post this quote, so I am not surprised it is the top post... What kind of "experienced linux experts" did he talk to? The Geek Squad? Did he give it 20 seconds? I haven't found even windows users not get excited when they are shown apt...
As a member of the North American Marlon Brando Look Alikes, I feel your pain... I would advise you to join our group for some moral support, but I somehow doubt that would help you...
This is very hard for people who come from democratic countries to understand. You see in those countries each person has equal voting rights/power and where they live or how much land they own generally does not matter. So, you are saying that the human population (which is concentrated in the cities) should not decide the president? Let a handful of people decide it instead, they should know better? Or maybe let the trees vote? Interesting thoughts, again, they are only hard to grasp for people coming from a democracy (we are trying...).
Haha, nice troll. What do you expect me to answer? That someone missing the "re" in the middle of their username is in no position to throw stones etc? I found that the geode -> choad association is at most a "Beavis-level" association and I commented on that. If you feel differently, come up with a more insightful answer than lame, grade school attempts at insulting.
Wow. You seriously think it sounds like "choad" (which is a "word" only if we stretch the definition for "words")? I congratulate your grasp of the English vocabulary & pronunciation. Well, at least you know how to pronounce vagina in order to come up with such a clever, CLEVER nickname!
You missed the most obvious explanation! MS went to the labels and told them, hey, we want to sell mp3's to users. The labels responded sure, but you have to use DRM since you are so good at it (wink wink nudge nudge), besides we would otherwise have to charge you more (since users would actually be buying content instead of some limited rent). MS says, we don't think the users will like this DRM, but we will give it a try. So, they come up with the most incredibly stupid DRM business plan in history (after the gnomes' attempt to DRM underpants), to prove to the labels, once and for all, that DRM cannot work!!!! Amazing huh? I am not being funny here, if you look at the IQ bell curve, you will see that this scenario is more likely than the alternate of finding a guy with a 69 IQ to head an MS department! Yes, I know they found one to head an entire nation a few years ago, but that does not improve the chances!
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I am not a gamer, but reading the reviews it seems that the ATI cards are conservatively clocked to allow their partners to sell at higher clocks, but also give the users a utility which has a simple slider to OC. So we are talking about somewhat "manufacturer-sanctioned" overclocking that is done by simply moving a slider on a software utility. For the specific ASUS card tested, an ASUS utility was also included which can even increase the voltage for higher speeds (the HardOCP unit was stable at 1GHz).
It is similar to CPU's, not all people will OC but I personally chose a C2D over an Athlon/Phenom (this was before Phenom II), because even though at my price point AMD was sort of competitive, I simply set the C2D at a 20% OC on stock cooling and it is running along happily crunching data 24/7 for the last year or so... So while not everyone will use OC capabilities, it is certainly an advantage and should be treated so.
Replying to my own post above, I actually quickly went through the ExtremeTech article (ok ok take back my /. badge) and confirmed why it is not one of my "preferred" sites. To call the nVidia better they divide the cost by the FPS over the games they tested. Yes, the raw FPS over different games, doesn't need a PhD in statistics to figure out the problem here. Then, they admit that the ATI overclocks very well (with the included utilities from ATI and ASUS), while the nVidia does not, but instead of stating this as an advantage for the ATI card they complain about the cards not shipping at the higher speeds they can easily attain. And finally, they list the nVidia at "$250 street est." price, while the ATI as "MSRP $259" when the latter is right now selling NOW on NewEgg for $230 after MIR or $250 directly. Great Job ExtremeTech!
Hmm, both articles I read today from my preferred sites (HardOCP and Anandtech) said that it was a close call, but the ATI a bit faster (and the only one actually available for purchase).
Anyway, my gaming days are long gone (except the occasional Wii sports & Civilization), so it is a moot point for me...
Quite predictably, no one complained about my Vista bashing, but a Mac fan promptly showed up to complain :) ;)
First of all, my post, according to the spirit of the thread, was about hardware. You conveniently threw in software and your "right to spend more" in the question. Again, the hardware is 2.5x more. Period.
Secondly, I did not tell you or anyone how to spend their money, but I repeat that from a hardware standpoint "most people" will not need to spend much more than $500.
Lastly, and it was only a postscript as my post was about hardware, I did not call Mac users idiots. I am currently a Mac user myself (at work), which is why I constantly get the feeling that the GUI was not designed with power users in mind (plus ergonomics sacrificed for "dazzle"). So, I can't say Mac users are idiots in general, but judging from your post you yourself would indeed fall into my (own) definition for "idiot". Said definition is not about IQ, but includes irrational fixations with specific corporations and their products, as well as the inability to process logical arguments regarding those products
Sorry if it came out as a flaimbait, but... I read on this very site that the argument has been concluded. It is pretty clear from that nice summary that "KDE will thrive".
I just bought my wife (not fictional I swear!) a new laptop. She wanted something up to 14" and not too heavy. I got her a Lenovo Y430, which was listed at $499 on lenovo.com, and there was a $100 off coupon at the time so it actually came down to $399+tax. For that price we got a 2.16GHz Dual Core T3400, 2GB DDR3, 160GB hd, DVDR etc. What more could we possibly want in a laptop. Myself, I have a 1 month old Macbook that my company bought me due to required dev work. The thing has a smaller screen (13.3") but still weighs more! It has almost the same specs (yeah, ok it has an nVidia so I can enjoy all the great Mac games - woohoo - but has smaller HD & DDR2), yet it cost $999 + tax! Two and a half times more for what?
There really is no reason why most people would want to spend more than $500 for a regular laptop, or perhaps a *little* more for a 17" one, however at some point you have to realize that it is not a laptop what you really need.
Well, ok there is a valid reason to spend more, that is if you want netbook weight but notebook screen & power, but that is a very special market (to which Apple came pretty late as any xkcd reader would realize).
PS. Note that I did not go into the OS dilemma. I consider Vista designed by idiots & Mac OS designed for idiots, so whatever you buy you'll have to install a nice KDE based Linux (SuSE for me) or Windows XP if you mostly need Windows software.
Hate to break it to you, but most of the "f*** you" answers were not bots...
Does this mean we have completed an artificial politician brain?
Yep, we urgently need some kind of killer FS for Linux...
Oh, wait...
How is this like google maps? I expected at least street view (you' ve seen how they did it in Tron) not to mention there is not even basic address search.
Is it at least the kernel map of a beowulf cluster node?
It is not IE that is taking long, it is all the spyware your system has to load every time you hit the IE icon.
As you said, it is not "a" show, it is better described as a "genre" or "sub-genre". Also, it lacks the "sci" out of "sci-fi". But then again some people like to count count Star Wars or even LOTR as sci-fi ;)
I salute your reading comprehension skills.
Aliens who look exactly like us save for bumpy foreheads?
Well, at least they devoted a TNG episode to explaining that. Haven't you seen "The Chase"?
For the love of god!
I logged on just to post this quote, so I am not surprised it is the top post...
What kind of "experienced linux experts" did he talk to? The Geek Squad? Did he give it 20 seconds?
I haven't found even windows users not get excited when they are shown apt...
Well in this case you should ask about TFT, and I guess you could look for it in mininova.
I'm putting together some notes on Watchmen, and providing a place for you all to discuss it.
Where is this place you speak of? I don't see a link or anything...
Oh, wait...
Yep, the rest of us here have only two... STDIN, STDOUT...
I can't see your link, it requires a flash plugin.
As a member of the North American Marlon Brando Look Alikes, I feel your pain...
I would advise you to join our group for some moral support, but I somehow doubt that would help you...
This is very hard for people who come from democratic countries to understand. You see in those countries each person has equal voting rights/power and where they live or how much land they own generally does not matter.
So, you are saying that the human population (which is concentrated in the cities) should not decide the president? Let a handful of people decide it instead, they should know better? Or maybe let the trees vote? Interesting thoughts, again, they are only hard to grasp for people coming from a democracy (we are trying...).
PS. Are you from Wyoming by any chance?
Haha, nice troll. What do you expect me to answer? That someone missing the "re" in the middle of their username is in no position to throw stones etc?
I found that the geode -> choad association is at most a "Beavis-level" association and I commented on that. If you feel differently, come up with a more insightful answer than lame, grade school attempts at insulting.
Wow. You seriously think it sounds like "choad" (which is a "word" only if we stretch the definition for "words")? I congratulate your grasp of the English vocabulary & pronunciation. Well, at least you know how to pronounce vagina in order to come up with such a clever, CLEVER nickname!
You missed the most obvious explanation!
MS went to the labels and told them, hey, we want to sell mp3's to users. The labels responded sure, but you have to use DRM since you are so good at it (wink wink nudge nudge), besides we would otherwise have to charge you more (since users would actually be buying content instead of some limited rent). MS says, we don't think the users will like this DRM, but we will give it a try. So, they come up with the most incredibly stupid DRM business plan in history (after the gnomes' attempt to DRM underpants), to prove to the labels, once and for all, that DRM cannot work!!!!
Amazing huh?
I am not being funny here, if you look at the IQ bell curve, you will see that this scenario is more likely than the alternate of finding a guy with a 69 IQ to head an MS department!
Yes, I know they found one to head an entire nation a few years ago, but that does not improve the chances!
Don't tell me you are also buying Acrobat just for the print to pdf function? :)
Look up the open source PDFCreator instead of asking about it