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Sheriff Sues Craiglist For Prostitution Ads
Amerika writes "Craigslist is 'the single largest source of prostitution in the nation,' according to Cook County, Illinois Sheriff Thomas Dart. He has announced that he's filing a lawsuit against the popular classifieds site. Craigslist says it's determined to prevent criminal activity." NewYorkCountryLawyer adds a link to the 28-page complaint (PDF), which "alleges that Craigslist maintains 21 classifications of sex-for-hire, coded as 'w4m,' 'm4m,' 'm4w,' etc." and that it has facilitated child prostitution and kidnapping and human trafficking.
I like this game
Isn't this going to get as far as the studios suing youtube?
Last week I ordered a hit out on a professor through craigslist. Sure the interface was ugly but service was delivered on time so I really shouldn't be complaining.
This is Illinois again I see we are talking about, after all. Maybe the sheriff in question is just upset because he can't get a cut of the local "action" if it's all happens online...
uh oh, this is definitely going to hurt my dating game...
Sheriff Dart has taken a stance against mortgage companies that are evicting renter's from homes that property owners are allowing to go into eviction. Sheriff Dart says, "Too many renters are being evicted for landlords' problems".
FreeBSD bounties
... where I live. So the Cook County Sheriff can lump it if he doesn't like it.
I piss off bigots.
So you mean to say all those fine women I took out on dates from craigslist were hookers! I guess that would explain the black eye and lack of memory the next morning after I refused to let her "borrow" some money.
Another dipshit that doesn't know how infrastructure is supposed to work and what the internet is. Child prostitution ... according to American law that would include 20 y/o with 11 months and three weeks on the clock right?
When did this idea emerge that you can sue a infrastructure for what is happening on it? This concept is new to me and doesn't make any sense. Next they'll be suing the newspapers for ads that enable people to engage in casual sex. About time someone did something about this.
whoah, I thought those pages were just the ugly and the desperate. Man, if they're hookers, they're a whole new underclass of hookers I don't have any desire to experience. :-(
Thanks to this sheriff, those of us seeking prostitutes or running brothels know that Craig's list is the place to be.
"Thank you sheriff for helping improve my business. Keeping all the young ladies on staff as busy as they can physically manage is great for business, especially in these tough economic times.
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
All consentual sexual relationships are a form of prostitution when you get to the basics of it...be it money, food, protection...
What about the wife that won't have sex with her husband until he does some chore?
Isn't that prostitution?
Just because he found his wife in the w4mmmm section doesn't mean he can get all sue-happy:)
The Sheriff sues computer maker based on that they enable people to search Craiglist for prostitutes.
I think they should probably go after the Streets Department first. Prostitutes have been using the streets to solicit prostitution for centuries. And I'm almost certain that there are more prostitutes using streets than using Craigslist.
Software sucks. Open Source sucks less.
Here's a new motivational poster:
Frivolous Lawsuits
[picture of Cook County Sheriff Thomas Dart]
Government approved
With Craigslist being a free service for anyone to post ads, isn't this somewhat like suing the telcos for allowing anybody to staple posters to their poles? (You in the back there, stop giggling!) I've seen those being used to peddle all kinds of stuff, from bicycles to kittens. Clearly they should be forced to moderate their telephone poles, right?
The view was horrible and the smell was even worse; Julie severely regretted becoming a proctologist.
using news print for sex is quite old.
By his logic we should be able to sue his ass for past abuse of prisoners by his own sheriff department right? Oh BTW Cook county has had in its past the worst corruption record of any county Sheriff in the nation
Fred Grott(aka shareme) http://mobilebytes.wordpress.com
I'm going to bring a lawsuit against every city and citizen of those cities that has active prostitutes on the streets. Afterall it's their tax dollars that created and maintain those streets, thus giving a place for prostitutes to congregate and "work".
No sig for you!!
but...
am I the only one who finds this thing a bit amusing and ironic that the name of the Sheriff who's "jumping" to conclusions is "Dart"?
maybe that's what his wife, ex-wife, and/or latest date said also...
After all, it nicely lists all the sex providers for him to go after.
Of course, that would be a lot of work for him. So I can understand his desire to secure society by making the location of sex providers obscure ;)
Thank you Sheriff Thomas J. Dart!
why not the state Department of Education for teaching people how to read those ads?
Prostitutes exist with or without Craigslist; it is not a "source" and it does not create prostitutes. They'd be out walking the street if Craigslist didn't give them somewhere safe to advertise. I'd much rather keep them on the web than on my sidewalk.
hey sheriff, you don't get laid in the champaign room.
w4w
when did singles sites become the target of prostitution crack-downs? just because craigslist has a "personals" section means that it is solely for prostitution? does this mean that _everyone_ on there is soliciting or seeking prostitution?
there is clearly a double standard toward craigslist and every other way to meet new members of the opposite (or same) gender. whether this is a double standard or not is irrelevant, this must be stopped; these pathetic knee-jerk "omg protect teh chrilden!1!!" is making me sick, it's everywhere
Really? I had no idea it was that easy. :)
Thanks sheriff! I'll definitely pull one in your name
As this is a civil case, doesn't one need standing to file a suit? As I understand it, that means that the individual bringing the suit has to ask for a remedy the court can provide, which would be redress of damage. Party A can't sue B for what B did to C because A was not harmed, and therefore has no standing. In what way has craigslist damaged the sherrif, and what damages is he asking the court to redress, exactly?
Oh how droll! Here I was, all ready to cheat on you and instead, I meet you ready to cheat on me! Let's write a song about it.
If he's doing this in his official capacity, then he's way out of line. This is for the states' attorney to handle, not the sheriff's office.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
He didn't sue the mortgage banks, he instead refused to execute eviction notices for renters that were paying rent on time.
SirWired
We've seen this rhetoric before. If I post a solicitation to pay for sex on myspace, is myspace liable? No, because myspace cannot possibly have the resources to police every post made. They're a service provider, not the morality police. Likewise with Craigslist. Now, it's good community service to help the police out when it's discovered there's a higher than usual number of problems here and there, and I'd expect any responsible business owner to try to limit illegal activity... But likewise, I don't expect any reasonable police officer to believe that business owners are superhuman and can prevent crime entirely. It's about managing your risks, not eliminating them.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
and she never paid me a dime! And we've been together 3 years now! I'm gonna sue too...
Wouldn't it be nice if government organizations would stop wasting money when the economy is a mess? Is there really so little real crime for them to deal with? Are all the victims so satisfied that this sheriff's department has completely solved their crimes? Exactly how many people does this sheriff's department have who aren't working on solving actual crimes with actual victims who have actually been harmed?
I've always been under the impression that the cops are constantly understaffed, but it looks like this particular sheriff's department has people with too much time on their hands.
I wish more of the authors of these smug, dismissive comments would read the complaint.
It makes a compelling case that the primary use of the "erotic services" section of Craigslist is prostitution, both the "consenting adults" variety and the quite non-consenting child sex slavery variety. It also cites specific cases where Craigslist was used to facilitate the abuse of child sex slaves. Is anyone here concerned with that, and that Craigslist is profiting from that traffic?
Note that the sheriff isn't trying to shut down Craigslist; his office sent 5 letters to Craigslist asking them to better police the "erotic services" section or shut it down. According to the complaint, Craigslist refused. It would seem that the owners of Craigslist value their profits more than the lives of the children whose exploitation they benefit from.
How often has the phrase "Think of the children" been bandied about on Slashdot with a wink and a sneer? Well, here's a case where there are actual, real, hurting children to think about. How many of you are brave enough to challenge the groupthink around here and do that? Where is the outrage that Craigslist is profiting from human traffic? Some of you need to turn in your liberal credentials at the door.
One of the hardest part of police work is FINDING the guilty people. Catching them and proving guilt is generally pretty easy. So basically, this total idiot of a sheriff discovers a shortcut to doing his job. All he has to do is to answer the ads on Craigslist. But instead of doing his job and arresting all the pros on Craigslist, this moron decides to shut down his BIGGEST WEAPON.
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
For fuck's sake already! First I wind up with an engineering mind I didn't ask for, second the world tells me that women hate guys with that sort of intelligence, then I'm finally given this tiny sliver of hope that there might be geeky girls who post to Craigslist looking for a date, and now you're working to take THAT from me, too?!?
What the hell is your damn PROBLEM, Illinois? We made you your stupid smartphones so you can dick around all day on them, we made you Wikipedia so you can look up information you didn't bother learning when you had the chance, we made you Amazon.com so you can sit on your corn-fed asses and order shit online, the least you people can do is hold up your end of the deal and lay off the geeks, and you can't even do THAT right!
The person that does the asking out to dinner pays.
After all, the other party was gracious enough to accept.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
It is interesting that the Sheriff's department is sueing Craigslist rather than trying to arrest someone. Obviously they're trying to skirt around the problem of it being shut down for content as this could be construed to be silencing people's free speech rights.
Reading of the complaint, there are some interesting assertions, such as (37).
The complaint provides a rather shocking insight into the way "middle America" thinks - that STDs are only transmitted by prostitutes. You're more likely to pickup an STD from a one-night stand from a girl at a club (because you'll take the risk and have unsafe sex) than you are with a hooker (that will most likely insist on a condom.)
But if that section of CL is closed, the girls will just go elsewhere.
www.adultfriendfinder, www.onlinebootycall.com, I'm sure there are other websites where girls put up personal ads and when guys contact them, the cost of a date is more than just dinner.
Then there are other websites, such as sugardaddy.com, where it is quite obvious that the goal is prostitution (those daddies that give girls sugar want and expect more than just a smile).
It's about time America got with the program, legalised prostitution, could therefore tax the revenue that these girls make by forcing them to work in brothels. Additionally there would be rather stringent health requirements/checks which would do a lot for sexual health in general.
The likely side effect of the erotic services section being closed is this: girls going elsewhere - there are other web sites, such as backpage.com, cityvibe.com, etc - that carry personals for girls. They may also end up in the casual encounters section or the more normal dating area. Ads from girls looking for "generous men" or men who can "help with bills" are usually girls willing to trade sex for cash.
The cost in health is entirely avoidable: state/local governments should be providing better (free) sex health services that also educate.
The police are naive if they think shutting this board will make the problem go away... all that they'll be doing is pushing the problem into more corners of the internet than they can easily track. I suspect they're going to find that they're cutting off their nose to spite their faces here in pursuing this.
I knew someone who was trying to use Craigslist to find a new home for her birds, and was following all of the rules posted (small "re-homing fee" - she really just wanted to be paid for the cage, the birds would have been free if she could have found someone who wouldn't put them in an undersized cage). Each time within an hour of posting, she had her posts pulled ("community moderated", or some such) for "inappropriate content". She then found out that there are a number of activists on Craigslist that censor anything having to do with "selling animals".
I guess my friend's birds rate higher on these peoples list of priorities than child sex slaves.
I hope that my friend's case is cited as an example of how "important" censoring happens almost immediately.
DISCLAIMER: This post was not checked for speling and grammar- if you complain- you're a whiner
I think this is how Blagojevich was shopping for senators to replace Obama. Its what got him busted.
-Chris (aka Lenwood)
Sheriff Uses Craiglist For Prostitution Ads
I don't like Craig's List because they always get my hopes up with an ad like:
Hot young model, into S&M, Watersports and Bondage seeks bi guys and girls for total dominance
Only to dash my hopes with the last line... No weirdos!
*sigh*...
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
If craigslist supplies prostitutes, then the socket in my wall is a power station.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Prostitutes generally insist on having sex with a condom. And say what you will about STDs, but I just can't reach orgasm that way. A girlfriend (or even a girl in a club) is far more likely to go bareback.
I'm going to create new acronyms to replace w4m, etc... women now = fish, man now = hook. fish who likes putting hooks in its mouth looking for dinner. Expect to be thrown back in the water after a kiss at the end of the encounter. Where does the stupidity end...is the economy that bad in the US that people need to make up pointless lawsuits?
... adults with imaginary friends are given free psychiatric help.
In the US, we give them political power.
OK, I'll bite.
What are you talking about? This is a story about a lawsuit. A strange lawsuit that seems to be trying to enforce criminal statutes on a tort-like theory of public nuisance. It likely won't go anywhere, since it's hard from the complaint to even make out who the aggrieved party is supposed to be. (Is the Sheriff himself harmed in some way by Craigslist's practices? I think he'll have to show that if he wants an injunction. Otherwise, if he thinks something cognizably criminal is going on he could maybe investigate and prosecute. Which he can't, so this whole thing is largely symbolic.)
Now you come in babbling about political power for imaginary friends. I guess it's OK, though, as there seem to be enough like-minded schizophrenics to get you modded insightful. Perhaps you could move overseas, and avail yourself of some of those marvelous free services...
There goes the best source of free entertainment online. They always are worth at least half an hour of laughs.
I did. and it sounds like there is a very strong legal case. The laws governing the conduct of prostitution are different from those governing copywrite, so what craigslist is doing really is illegal. It is illegal to "facilitate" the commitment of illegal prostitution activities, and craigslist knows that this particular section of the website is unsed widely for just this purpose. After being presented with vast amounts of evidence of this illegal activity, they have made no effors to try to weed out the illegal activity, so the Sherrif's last resort is to sue for injunctive releif. The internet is a great tool, but that doesn't mean that it is perfect or can't be used for illegal activity.
Keep passing the open windows...
I'm waiting for the following amazon shopping menus:
hookers
cocaine
cannabis
please make this America again!
Seriously, if you're going to sell sex, create your own currency that you can later exchange for real currency. Yakuza owned pachinko parlors in Japan have been doing this for a long time. You win "prizes" at the pachinko parlor (stuffed animals, etc...), then leave with the prizes, and go to a building a few blocks down where some friendly folks will "buy" your prizes, where each prize has a set exchange rate. These folks then "sell" the "prizes" back to the parlor.
Everybody wins, no laws are actually "broken", it's simply an exchange of good of perceived equal value.
8==8 Bones 8==8
Always the same false flag cry, kiddy sex. Then the classic load of bullshit, hookers.
Oh noes, somebody is getting some pussy and head and is gonna blow their load! Evildoer!!
Neocons and coward pigs, park your hummer in your garage and close the door and leave it running and take yourself a nice, long, deep nap there. It would raise the average IQ of the species while reducing the broken record cries of wolf to justify destroying freedom and liberty and individual responsibility and choice.
Stupid asshat bastards.
He's going to have to sue all the newspapers as well if that's all it takes... Besides, is that even legal? Aren't law enforcement supposed to arrest lawbreakers, not sue them...
If he has that much time maybe he/she can sue the Yellow Page for having "Escort Services" and "Massage Services".
Maintaining a house of prostitution (in the good old USA) is a nuisance. I don't see why maintaining a website of prostitution cannot be a nuisance also. I think that the Sheriff has a good theory going.
A newspaper could be prosecuted if it knowingly promoted prostitution with prostitution want ads. Why should Craigslist be afforded more protection than a newspaper?
If Craigslist started a listing for murderers for hire, the public would rightfully demand that it stop.
In a free country, the people can regulate the internet. The people have the power.
If our local news stories are to be believed. But I guess like sailors pushed _out_ to sea by dolphins, you don't hear from the satisfied customers.
Your post is the exact reason that trolls exist. They know assholes like you will bite at any random bullshit they type, and they enjoy the fuck out of it.
Then again, you're the one arguing with an Anonymous Coward!
...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
The parent is alluding to the Sheriff in TFO having a deranged mental state by using a common reference, identifying with people who aren't physically present. Indeed, hallucination is a common symptom of many psychological maladies.
User number 970820 also makes a joke using the familiar, and frequently employed motif, whereby individuals in a place of power are ridiculed by making a potentially credible complaint that the opposing party is irreparably stricken with a condition which renders them unfit to hold such power, attempting to display their behavior as evidence beyond reproach.
Happy to help.
Is the Sheriff himself harmed in some way by Craigslist's practices? I think he'll have to show that if he wants an injunction....... Which he can't, so this whole thing is largely symbolic.
I don't know about that.....maybe his wife keeps showing up in the w4m category....
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
After all, the Yellow Pages have an "Escorts" section as well.
My guess, is the AC is referring to religious people when he says "people with imaginary friends", the imaginary friend indicating god.
The AC probably jumped to the conclusion that the sheriff was on a crusade based on religious temperament.
All in all, it was pretty easy to follow to me, if not necessarily well founded. Jumping to bad conclusions isn't really an indicator of schizophrenia, I'd think more along the lines of mania / bipolar disorder.
He's stupid.
Most people in an investigative field would BEG for lists like this.
The posting gives probable cause. They can wire tap the numbers, and get the phone history. The secondary numbers that call common numbers give even more escorts, or escort services/pimps. Third level cross reference would then likely give him a good number of the working girls in the area, and regular clients. All of this would be legal.
Many law enforcement agencies are using these ads to DO the busts. They'll set up a wired hotel room, and have the girls meet them there. They'll also have officers pose as the escorts, and do the same to the Johns.
They're being spoon fed fairly reliable information. The exception would be postings by angry ex-boyfriends/husbands, who post their ex-SO picture and phone numbers. Those would be easily filtered once the phone records were given a good look over.
I don't know what idiot thought about filing a complaint against Craigslist. They should be THANKING them. Spend a couple months gathering intelligence, and then spend a weekend on widespread busts. They'd get a significant number in the process, and the rest would be scared out of business. Any remaining ones that decided to continue marketing this way would be continued easy fish to catch.
Do your job, and you've solved the problem. Cutting out an advertising source just pushes that element that you want to arrest into other fringe areas that you probably don't know about yet. Doing it right would get the vice squad brownie points from all over the place, and an increased budget. Just bitching about the advertising medium gets you nothing but a budget wasted on court costs.
Stupid people.
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
nah, she keeps showing up in w4mm.
I'm no rocket scientist (okay, technically I am, but that's beside the point) but this seems to be an ideal way to create leads on local illegal activity. Would there be the same outcry if there were local Pot or Heroin ads? How long could you sell crack via Craigslist before the cops paid you a visit?
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
My guess, is the AC is referring to religious people when he says "people with imaginary friends", the imaginary friend indicating god.
The AC probably jumped to the conclusion that the sheriff was on a crusade based on religious temperament.
Yeah, that's what I figured as well.
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
Hey, People have to make a living somehow...
He's a sheriff, he/she is a prostitute, both earn money.
Jump ...
To Conclusions!
I think something has triggered that AC's "Hate Christians" reflex. "Imaginary Friend" is a codeword for God or Jesus to people who hate so much that they can't let religious people be.
In a nation such as the US, whose society I regard as civilized, where people are not coerced into prostitution against their will, what exactly is wrong about prostitution; and in turn, why is it illegal?
Speaking of greed and power, i at first was going to insinuate that there are OTHER forces behind this:
microsoft and churches...
Forming an un-wholey (d)alliance. MS can't compete with Craigslist for the hearts and minds of database developers, and the various top-line churches cannot bare to compete with the parts and hinds of offerors and acceptors. So, they join forces and contract a sheriff who acts as cock-blocker and interceptor.
Wait... i hear a deltree and a cruci *(##L&( E# (lost carrier)
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
I have always found it highly questionable that something one can give away for free should be illegal to sell.. (free is relative; everyone pays for it somehow) If they regulated it (and taxed the hell out of it) it would do away with some thugs who want to be big time pimps, and through health regulations it could help reduce the spread of STD's. Just to go ahead and answer the inevitable, no it will not fix everything and there will always be those that operate outside of an established/legal system.
Really your defense for Socialism is "better than Bush"? Wow, I need to be king then because I'm freaking awesome compared to Bush. I hate the economic stuff going on and yes it is a creeping form of Socialism and yes I think that's bad for us unless we want to be a middle of the pack also ran country like the rest of the socialist countries in the west. I also hated the intrusive creeping government surveillance and oppression under Bush and think it was bad unless we want to be a totalitarian moralist police state. Why can't I hate both parties when they do something wackadoo?
Mmmm, bacon. ...or am I just being fat and stupid again?
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
What kind of a nightmarish totaletarian regime has made it illegal to sell kittens? My god, it is 1984 all over again.
Or is "kitten" some kind of slang for some sexual practice that slashdotters just don't know about (granted this includes everything from talking to a girl and up).
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Or more likely, he has ruined her for men so she shows up in wfw. Er, not that I ever view that section. Uh, I think I will take the fifth now.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
Yeah, no one is really being hurt by this.
Heck, if prostitution moves entirely online, it'll be a good thing. The "bad image" caused by streetwalkers and such will go away, since the actual "marketing" of services happens invisibly online, and those involved can meet up in private.
Actually, I was alluding to the Sheriff in TFO pandering to Christian neo-Puritans by attempting to control what consenting adults do with their bodies, but I guess I was a bit too vague.
"Hmm... renter in good standing making monthly payments, owner in bad standing not making monthly payments. Maybe we should offer them the house in exchange for them continuing to pay. The worst that could happen is they say no and move out."
This might work for a single-occupant building. For a multi-unit building it's not practical.
Selling to another landlord with tenants in place might improve the value - or it might drop it. After all, with the current tenants at their current rent and payment rates the previous landlord couldn't keep the payments up. So the bank might have to clear out the existing tenants to give the building a chance to become a profitable income property.
Wouldn't it have been cheaper to cut the original owners the deal, instead of repossessing and reselling at the lower monthly rates?
Unintended consequence of such a policy: Essentially EVERY borrower immediately defaults to get the same deal.
So the banks won't offer the deal to the existing owners.
(I don't like it either: I'm an existing owner of an owner-occupied property who has kept up payments. I wanted to refinance at the crash-related lower rates. But it looks like I may have to refi with another lender to get it to happen just because of such a policy - assuming I haven't missed the window. Fortunately, keeping up the payments, having a house that's still above water, and having both a job and assets combine to give me a dandy credit rating.)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Craigslist is 'the single largest source of prostitution in the nation'
No, whores are the single largest source of prostitution! craigslist.com list is just their most popular advertising medium. Did people stop smoking cigarettes when they stop advertising? Take away online venues for finding customers, and whores will go back to propositioning Johns on the street. Personally, I'd rather they just advertise online, where only the people that are looking for sex-for-hire have to deal with them.
True story: I was in Manhattan on business, walking down the street in broad daylight, when this woman in a business suit approached me and asked "Do you have the time?" I of course immediately looked at my watch, whereupon she remarked "That's not what I meant!" Call me a nerd, but no, I can't tell an office worker from a prostitute... at least not until they ask for money.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
I live in Vancouver. Never mind craigslist, they advertise in one of the local newspapers.
Old school: Go undercover/hit the streets to round up prostitutes.
New school: Login in to www.craiglisst.com from the comfort of the squad room, set up a date, make arrest. Rinse, repeat.
How about New new school:
Make the damn thing legal, it's just sex and money in one happy exchange voluntarily entered into by both parties.
Why is it illegal? Because some puritan has the power to decide what "[You] the people" is allowed to do? Because it's to protect the women (I'm sure there are no male prostitutes) from the dangers of the trade (yeah, PMITA prison is a step up...)? Undressing for money is fine, but undressing and doing the next logical thing is not? :-?
Even if the "woman" you hired off of craigslist.com turned out to have a penis, suing craigslist.com still isn't going to help you get your money back!
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
It has been several decades since I lived in Chicago. One of the duties of the Cook County Sheriff back then was to create an "organized crime" diversion whenever things were getting a little too hot for any of the fair-haired boys of the Democratic political machine in that city and state. This looks very similar.
My guess is that this will go away as the hoo-hoo-rah over Senator Burris' lies about his relationship with the ex-Governor Blagojevich fade into obscurity. (Burris was seated in the US Senate after testifying that he had no contacts with Blagojevich's people and had not been involved in raising money for Blagojevich after he sought be appointed Senator, but he has since recanted on both points when confronted with evidence that he had in fact been doing both.) There was a move to have a special election to replace Burris in the Illinois legislature; I understand that died earlier today.
for the pointer.
Aw, cheer up. The good Sheriff might have sued THE INTERNET.
If selling is legal, and fucking is legal, why isn't selling fucking legal?
Thanks to the Sheriff filing a lawsuit about it, prostitution posts on Craigslist will now receive more attention than ever before.
This signature intentionally left unblank.
Could someone tell me why prostitution is illegal in the first place?
Let me attempt to assist authorities in prosecuting such heinous crime.
I was at a Kinko's store happily surfing when a girl next to me asked for help. I duly assisted her in setting up her Craigslist "erotic services" ad. [She offered me her business too but I pointed out to her her ad: her hourly rate was higher than what I make consulting. That gave me a graceful way to bow out)
Presently, after a few minutes of exposure, her ad generated responses. The entire room was treated to her loudly intoning "Yes! Yes! (Fsck) me! I love it in my (Ascii)..." Half the people in the room came to their feet, red-faced, while the other half...oh, we were stretched back in our seats laughing our heads off.
There you have it. Guilty as charged.
Why have the erotic ads at all. No money is made and they are not serving any well-defined need except enabling prostitution. Certainly there are no free speech issues involved here since nothing of import is actually being said. Seems like CL is doing this to prove some unnamed point. I simply don't get it. "Just Because" is not any kind of justification. I assume anyone arguing for the continuation of this CL "service" is either a regular user of said service to trying to make some extremely weak political argument here. The CL erotic ads simply do society no real positive service.
After reading the Sheriff's complaint I agree with most of its premises - it costs the county hundreds of thousand of dollars per year in enforcement dollars and much of what they run across is child-prostitution and trafficking. Not easy to argue that that is a worthy cause for CL to be aiding.
This just in! People can post stuff on the internet! Angry people want to put you in jail!
Because as a general rule, things ought to be permitted by default and banned only for a damn good reason. Who are you to judge what's worthwhile?
I refer to page 10 in the PDF:
The complete postings, with nude images, are attached as Exhibit E).
Where's "Exhibit E"? I demand that the PDF includes Exhibit E!
OMG, you can find hookers online!
Now I know where to look. Thanks, Sheriff!
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
It's not uncommon for rent payments to be less than the mortgage in high cost areas like San Francisco. The owners are hoping to make their money on rapid property value increases. The renters are just there to keep the place occupied and help qualify for the mortgage.
If a $700K house will be worth $800K next year, you aren't that concerned if the renters are paying $2K/month or $3K/month.
Everything changes when the $800K house will be worth $750K next year. The owner can't sell. They would probably need to get rid of the tenants to put the house on the market, but they can't afford to pay the full mortgage when the house doesn't sell in the slow market. They can't raise the rent much, until all of the other rental properties go up as well.
I am not picking on the Montgomery Alabama or New York City craigslist I am just using them as a example.
/. ?
Montgomery Alabama: the search for w4m in the personals section Found: 825 Displaying.
New York City: the same personals section for w4m got a total Found: 1000 Displaying for New York City.
I noticed that some of the ads leave nothing to the imagination. Wow these people got balls, plus a few other things too. Who knew is was so easy to "ahem" hook up. Any thing you desire is right there on craigslist.
Did I just hear a echo here on
are they clueless or are they purposely ignoring the fact that all those 'codes' w4m m4m w4w, etc... are also used in advertising for anonymous and non-paid meetings, both in newspaper personals and craigslist, also both for actual first dates and for anonymous sex, sans dating. unless they want to ban casual encounters, which they do not have the authority to do, they can't get rid of the prostitutes who hide themselves among the legal activity.
The standard procedure is for man to ask woman.
How conveeeeenient you decide this way!
The AC probably jumped to the conclusion that the sheriff was on a crusade based on religious temperament.
All in all, it was pretty easy to follow to me, if not necessarily well founded.
It's not really an improper conclusion. Show me one non-theist that believes prostitution is improper, and I'll show you a closet theist.
Only those who believe in some imaginary divine morality have an issue with folks selling sexual services.
Causing harm isn't the only moral question in the world! The importance of holding a society together is something you may scoff at but our level of non-violence between people groups is historically unprecedented and not likely to continue if "do no unwanted harm" is our only societal criteria for law.
Look at the flow chart... with an average IQ of 100 exactly how many of these half-apes do you expect to be able to knowledgeably consent?
Who's to say what does and does not cause harm? Not exercising and eating right causes harm. Not waring your seat belt causes harm.
The libertarian mantra sounds wonderful but is so full of holes that a 7th grader would have trouble swallowing it.
I'll bite...
Prostitution is illegal but erotic services are not. As long as sexual acts are not taking place, then it's erotic services.
It's NOT my thing, and I always raise an eyebrow when I hear about it myself. However, that doesn't make it illegal prostitution in spite of my feeling of how easy it could become that in private. It's about as vague as the (somewhat continuing) 80's fiasco with weapons being killing devices and should be banned because killing is illegal.
Of course, on that note a massage/chiropractic work/doctors visit/storage area rental could become prostitution in private, also.
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
I don't know about that.....maybe his wife keeps showing up in the w4m category....
Nah, it's his twin 18yr old daughters showing up in the w(^2)4* category.
Here is some food for thought. Prostitution is illegal but working in the entertainment sex industry is not(mostly). The solution to bypass most countries law is simple. You pay people to have sex and be filmed. One of the people then buys the video from you for a sum larger than the sum you've paid them. Ultimately no videos need be traded or produced. Just a solid paper trail is needed. You are no longer a client but an entertainment worker. Pretty smart hey. ;)
"alleges that Craigslist maintains 21 classifications of sex-for-hire, coded as 'w4m,' 'm4m,' 'm4w,' etc." and that it has facilitated child prostitution and kidnapping and human trafficking.
Man, I knew spam bots were bad, but next they'll be into drugs and gun running.
Set up a sting operation by phoning the numbers... how hard can it be to trick a drugged-out whore?
Dates usually require at least dinner and a movie, often several times. That can run into the hundreds of dollars per lay. Marriage-oriented sites require even more money per lay. Craigslist ads seem to generally dispense with such monetary transfers and cut right to the chase. So, obviously, Craigslist has less prostitution than other personal sites. He should go after relationship oriented sites.
Ban the children
It would work! Think about it: the general reaction of the government whenever there has been social misuse of a commodity has been to ban the commodity and criminalize possession of it.
So, we just need to round up all children everywhere and lock them away in evidence lockers. Then when they reach the age of majority, we can release them for the 3-6 months it would take for the socially maladjusted adults to commit a crime, then lock them back up, this time in for-profit prisons.
Actually, I think this would be a great solution to all social problems, plus provide the government with a productive population that is completely under control
(To those of you who can't recognize a joke in poor taste when you see it, yes, I'm being facetious)
There's a little bit of prostitution in human society, but more might actually be better. Bonobo society, a society built around sex and prostitution, is a lot more peaceful than human society. We're more like chimps, we resolve conflicts through fighting.
Not only that. She is undercutting the prices of the rest.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Where I live, prostitution is a normal, regulated service industry.
So how is life in Washington, DC these days?
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
If the other women were more willing. He should sue every non-prostitute-woman, I guess.
Bert
Contextual ads are a constant source of entertainment! http://www.badluck.it/imgv/cont_ads.png
He has no right to stop me advertising my prostitution services, nor any right to stop my clients reading about them, nor any right to stop Craigslist from listing them.
Let him stop Chicago residents from reading Craigslist, if he's so worried.
For the umpteenth time, it's the WORLD WIDE Web. Local yokels don't get to dictate how it gets used.
I piss off bigots.
Yeah, no one is really being hurt by this.
Heck, if prostitution moves entirely online, it'll be a good thing. The "bad image" caused by streetwalkers and such will go away, since the actual "marketing" of services happens invisibly online, and those involved can meet up in private.
It'll make law enforcement easier. It's far easier to track someone online that in real life, at least in the US it is.
For a nice date: call strftime(3C)
You are forgetting the feminazis..
No shit, Sherlock.
I've got some dihydrogen monoxide here, but I'm struggling to find an adjective to describe it. Perhaps you can help?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I think you might be on to something...
Flappinbooger isn't my real name
Noting also that the Illinois legislature also passed a resolution declaring Pluto a planet, I think we've found the location of Uranus. Will the parade of crooked/stupid/clueless people coming out of Illinois ever end????
Wet?
The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
Well, I would argue that someone does need to step in and point out, at least to those modding 'Insightful', that parent's points are convoluted/offtopic/whathaveyou.
I'm sure that the release of this story will bring a whole heck of a lot more people to Craigslist looking for some company. If they didn't know they could do so before, they do now. The Sheriff has definitely made a significant contribution to their marketing campaign. I'd be interested to see the number of hits the site got before the complaint was filed vs. the number of hits after. They'll probably need to buy some new servers. I know a guy...
Cold and hard?
Hot and gaseous?
Milton didn't invent the mat. You're obviously not very good with people.
You better watch out, there may be dogs about . .
Surprisingly, I couldn't find the URL either.
Cook County, Illinois Sheriff Thomas Dart has announced that he's filing lawsuits along with Johnathan E. Riches against the Chicago Yellow Pages, the Chicago Reader, the Chicago Free Press, Google, Yahoo, citysearch.com, theeroticreview.com, the Russian Mafia, Jesus Christ, The Internet, Pluto, The 1972 starting lineup of the Chicago Cubs, Fermilabs, Nikola Tesla, Cisco, Rev. Al Sharpton, The Yeti, John Dillinger, All Red Ford Mustangs, and the fibonacci number.
Shouldn't he be using craigslist as a honey pot to catch prostitutes and johns?
Think Deeply.
9 replies pointing out that he forgot stderr.
As a landlord I talked to local Police and Sherif Deputy's and they have said the team that sees the most violence in the department is the eviction team. Keep that in mind next time you play GTA or watch Miami Vice reruns.
Think Deeply.
He should be suing the yellow page phone books too. All those "private dancer" ads, "escort service" ads... there's more to those than just dancing or "escorting" people around.
(ewww, the captcha is "excrete" !)
Wikipeida: Naperville is about 35 square miles, which is pretty big, but hardly 'gigantic'. In size it falls behind Joliet, Aurora, Rockford, and of course Chicago itself, which is about 230 square miles of skyscrapers, slums and sprawl.
Also, the mortgage isn't your sole expense. With insurance and property tax, I pay the equivalent of *18* mortgage payments every year, not 12 (yes, tax and insurance are that high, and I bought before the rush).
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Yeah, I'm still mad at my kid for hepping me to that one.
The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
The very reason they HAVE an "erotic services" category is to dissuade people from mis-using/abusing the other categories.
When they didn't have such a category, they started getting numerous complaints of escorts trying to offer their services in covert ways. EG. Posting ads in the real-estate category, offering "short term rental of fine tracts of land", and filling the ad with other "code words" so people seeking such a thing out would know what the ad was really implying. (Inevitably, they'd post a phone number to some voice mailbox, so they could screen the calls and only call back people who they thought really wanted an escort or prostitute.)
You're never going to stop people from using a free service to advertise things of a sexual nature -- so better to provide proper areas for it to go. Then people who don't want to see it can easily bypass it.
Price-to-rent ratio is a housing market statistic that is kept regularly, and that can be used to address your question.
Look at the chart in this blog entry. Basically, over the past few years, we had a real estate bubble that sent house prices very far up, without a proportional increase in rents. So yes, many properties bought over the past few years are being rented below the cost of the mortgage and other expenses.
Are you adequate?
The fact that you can use Craigslist to meet prostitutes is old news. The fact that you can use Craigslist to meet prostitutes and rob them is a little newer.
I've seen several cases about this lately.
I think that like many areas of life, different locations have different local customs.
I have no doubt that your dancer friends and girlfriends have the most rigid moral compasses, but please let me assure you that the situation you described does not apply universally. I've gone to upscale clubs (and I can name them if you care) where sex acts not only occur, they are solicited by the dancers, themselves. I've never had sex with a dancer on-premises, but that assumes a very Bill Clintonesque definition of "sex".
There are very simple and inexpensive techniques to determine which girls follow the rules and which ones offer extras. Don't believe me? Try this:
As I'm sure you know, these girls are experts at implying, suggesting, and taunting you with things they have no intention of delivering. The above technique cuts right through the hustle without wasting unnecessary time or money. It's better for the girl too, because it saves her the aggravation of spending any more time with a creepy guy like me.
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
It's not really an improper conclusion. Show me one non-theist that believes prostitution is improper, and I'll show you a closet theist.
Only those who believe in some imaginary divine morality have an issue with folks selling sexual services.
Who gave this genius a mod point? Having morals doesn't mean you're a theist. You may as well take it as far as "show me one non-theist that believes murder is improper, and I'll show you a closet theist."
You're saying that since the universe is made up of quarks and leptons there is no fundamental rule that makes murder "wrong". While I'm willing to bet that's true, just because I hold the personal belief that murder is wrong doesn't mean I drew that conclusion based on what a bible says.
You can be non theist, and believe that in the current social setup there is a very low probability that a prostitute really choose his or her fate freely.
And therefore accepting to use the service of prostitutes is about the same as having sex with a person that just underwent serial rape and is not is a state to wonder about one more or not.
And it is possible to be non theist and nevertheless think that what makes your life worth while is being free with free people.
And in that case you will not want to visit prostitutes.
Being afraid of ulterior ethernal punishment is not an ethical point of view.
So ethics have nothing to do with religion.
Wether you are theist or non theist only if you do a decision of being a decent human being because you sincerely want to be one can be ethical.
Being afraid of cops, human or divine is not being ethical (only practical).
I'm sure some people use Craigslist legitimately for dating, not for prostitution. Those who solicit sex for money are in fact breaking the law (depending on your state/city).
On the other hand, some people use their computer to pirate music. Should we sue Dell for facilitating this?
Some people use their cars as a vessel for doing drive-by shootings. Should we sue Ford?
What's with the crackpot government in Illinois? Selling senator seats, saying Pluto's a planet, and now a bucktoothed sheriff suing a site for illegal activity they already strive to eliminate?
Chewbacon
The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
Tapping phone lines, cross-referencing numbers, wiring up hotel rooms, clogging up court dockets, etc. Don't get me wrong--it does happen from time to time--but that's an awful use of police resources, and the cops know it. When the do do it, it's just for show.
How satisfying is it for the cop to set up an elaborate and costly sting operation to catch a provider, and have her walk away with probation or a few days of community service? Or catch a client, only to have the DA decline to prosecute, because the clients are hardly ever prosecuted?
In the end, I don't think it would be very effective at all. In my city, the vice squad regularly patrols the streets making arrests. But yet the "commerce" continues.
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
The classified ads of most national and regional newspapers are filled with that stuff. If craiglist intends to have similar service then this goes without say.
So although what he says may be true, what he should say for clarity is: "Craigslist is 'the single largest source of clasified ads in the nation'"
oh and I love the way people throw around 'child porn' to support a wide range of complaints.
It's not uncommon for a high-income family to be dirt poor, so the wife makes ends-meat by prostituting silently while pursuing a high-paying custom seemstress career to cover the real money coming in. In this case, the U$250K/year Shire-reeve is taking the drugs he seized and looking for a free hooker, but wound up at another house with his wife waiting for him. Somthing like that kind of happened in Colorado, where a wife was strip-dancing and escourting men just to pay U$5K/month on mortgage for a regular house with a desert view. And... then she disappeared, for no apparent reason to another country witha client that convinced her to burn her car and toss her purse to the center-divider (ahhem, three good young kids, but your husband sucked--consider the husband).
Oh, BTW, I'm a 180lb 3-foot tall lesbian vietnamese negro midget who thinks she's beautiful and is looking for a serious relationship with only ladies that look as beautiful in a stretched-out mirror as me. Please, no men and show your picture because I know showing a picture never fools me in standing at the bus-stop for you to decide to stay-seated or jump-out in ecstasy.
It got outdated and she packed-up to OpenBSD. I took the relationship to the next level, leaving her behind for BackTrack3 SlackWare and my life has been twattin' the flies ever since.
He could've complained about the obvious Marijuana pipes being concealed as "tobacco bongs", or the fact that someone is *trading* somthing valuable for somthing else of equal but different value. Instead, he complains about hookers. My friend, every man that ever got cheating on his wife or about to be Blackmailed has always tried to cover his tracks. Law Enforcement is the biggest RICO case in history yet to be prosecuted. Of'course he's complaining about the hookers, because after taking some of the Marijuana he stole from a poor guy trying to supplement a living, he bought himself a bong and was looking to celebrate with a hooker over it but she was about to Blackmail him; sure, he'll call in some shill assistants over in FBI to cover his ass by speaking of an unwritten (as of yet) investigation covering the times of internet Craigslist access by this dirtbag Sherriff. In the end, he'll be praised in the concealment of his horny ass while the rest of us in The Covenant get pushed back as far as Ipswich. What you don't see in this story is how it should sound in the truth: man in private capacity (off-duty Sheriff) caught soliciting hooker, turns around to protect his paycheck and official credibility by becoming on-duty Sheriff in his own complaint to dissatisfaction of Service.
When people are in-office or out-of-office, they are all dirtbagsin disguise. It's about time someone made them into an ornament of freedom, hung high in a tree under the rEvolution Angel.
An example of the limits of the power of the courts is the Cherokee "Trail of Tears". The Supreme Court ruled that The State of Georgia did not have jurisdiction over the Cherokee. The state of Georgia evicted the Cherokee from their lands anyway.
Georgia may of been part of evicting the Cherokee but Cherokee also lived in the Carolinas, both North and South, Tennessee, and Kentucky. The Supreme Court rules against President Andrew Jackson with Chief Justice Marshall delivering the ruling. Jackson then basically told Marshall to raise his own army.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Everything changes when the $800K house will be worth $750K next year. The owner can't sell. They would probably need to get rid of the tenants to put the house on the market, but they can't afford to pay the full mortgage when the house doesn't sell in the slow market.
Owners who get rid of tenants who pay on tyme are stupid. Having a building already being rented saves a buyer the money to find a new renter. Currently I live in a house that was converted to a 4 unit apartment building. My sister bought the building years ago and at the tyme all of the apartments were rented. For the tenants the only thing that changed was who they paid the rent to. When I moved in we planned on her selling me the building when I was able to qualify for the mortgage, but with the housing market crash I don't when that will be, then when I took over ownership I'd do the same thing.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
TBH the housing act here in the UK makes it hard enough to evict even if you're not paying a penny, but hey ho.
My sister's an owner who rents apartments in the US and it took her about 6 months to have one of her tenants evicted after they stopped paying rent. During that tyme if she hadn't been able to pay her mortgage she could have lost the building. And it's not as if the tenant tried to pay, she wasn't even looking for work.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
ROFL...you fallen into the trap of believing anything a stripper tells you. I'm sure they said that they love you and think you're cute too haha...
It's all about money. If you show up with the cash you can buy anything you want. Period.
You've fallen for the propaganda yourself. Once upon a long tyme ago I hanged out at a strip club and made friends with the regular workers there. We called the lady who owned and managed it Mother once we hung out there a while. The boyfriend of one dancer worked there as the DJ. I baby sat their children a few tymes. I also baby sat another dancer's, who was married, children. Her sister worked as a dancer while working on a nursing degree in college. For months a couple of tymes a month we'd have a picnic or party at someone's home or in a park. I came to realize eventually strip dancers were no different than people from many other occupations.
As for showing up with cash and being able to buy anything, that applies in a lot of other places too. Rush Limbaugh even went doctor shopping to get his favored prescription drug.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Plain and simple, the erotic services section, at least for las vegas, is 99% blatant prostitution.
As a larger city in Nevada prostitution is illegal in Las Vega but it's legal in other parts of the state.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
I think you really misunderstand the purpose of law enforcement. It's not a business where "the more prostitutes we put in jail the better." It's a service where the less prostitutes which exist the better. If they're arresting whores left and right they don't pat themselves on the back because it means they've failed to keep the crime in check.
I think it's you who don't understand law enforcement, which exist to protect people, ie victims, from involuntary harm. In a voluntary exchange such as between a prostitute and john there is no victim.
Prostitution used to be legal in many places in the US but puritans, moralists, and others who want to control people were able to have laws passed that made it illegal.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
The news said that our local police read Craigslist and bust the guys who hook up in a park down by the river. That's the way law enforcement should deal with these illegal activities: bust them when they happen.
The best way to deal with this, prostitution, is to make it legal again. It was only because of puritans, moralists, and others who want to control people that prostitution was made illegal in much of the US. According to Northwestern University prostitution was never legal in Chicago. However it was legal in other places. The same group that was successful in getting alcohol illegal with Prohibition, the Woman's Christian Temperance Union, was able to exert influence to make prostitution illegal. For instance New Orleans used to have a redlight district where it was legal.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
City/County/State budgets are tight and Obama isn't taxing businesses fast enough so why not just sue business directly.
If it were all about the money then why don't they legalize and tax prostitution?
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Try keeping track of it sometime, how much you spend on a girl before she'll have sex with you.
This reminds me of this creep I knew. He had this black book he carried, all of the tyme, that he'd write his date's name in the first tyme he took her out. By the third date if she wouldn't have sex with him he'd never ask her out again. And he said that right in front of their faces sometimes.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Where do you eat dinner? McDonalds? Is a special night out Taco Bill?
When I go out to dinner, the average bill for a two-up is $100 or so.
Maybe you can afford expensive meals but I've never paid more than about $35 per person, with entertainment such as a movie or play included. Then again I once asked a lady to go on a date to a concert and the tickets were about $70 each.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Prostitutes exist with or without Craigslist; it is not a "source" and it does not create prostitutes. They'd be out walking the street if Craigslist didn't give them somewhere safe to advertise. I'd much rather keep them on the web than on my sidewalk.
Ah but prostitutes would not have to walk the streets if it were legal. They, the cheap ones, walk the streets because they have no legal place to go to practice their trade.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
for escorts
So does Google, Google even has more than one section for escorts.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
I thought you might be. What many people, at least in the US, think of when it comes to "clear channel" is the broadcaster Clear Channel.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Cook County Sheriff--needs to spend more time on Real criminals investigation: Sex is Healthy...p**sy is on sale in difficult time. We guys are helping stimulate our economic in a way.