Because in several of the non-profits I do IT related stuff for, they've asked me for light weight wp, for their _really_ old machines, and Abi fitted the bill...
And by _old hardware_ I mean 200Mhz range stuff...
Only problem: not everyone is like you, I know of loads of people who would really appreciate things like this, since it solves _their_ wp needs, without having a machine capable of playing Doom 3...
Would you mind justifying your post, all I can see here is that you think this/that or the other.
From what I read, the GP post was in the creative industry, and I can't see how you justify a lot of your examples:
'For anyone in the creative industry. No.'
The GP seems to prove you wrong there. (If I(m mistaken, please flame away)
'For anyone that needs Office. No. (and please don't say OpenOffice is the same)'
OpenOffice, no but a lot of non profits and governmant agencies where I live seem to think StarOffice on Linux is just fine for their needs.
'For Grandma. No.'
Mabey, never tried, but my non-geek gf (a literature student) gets on with Mandrake 9.2 just fine, and no I'm not there 9-5 everyday fixing things.
'For elementary school kids. No.'
Because it hasn't got word? I can't see what's missing here, or mabey I'm just completely out of touch with the kids around here...
'For plug and play wireless networking. No.'
Can't comment, never used wifi at home or at work, never needed to.
'For people that don't want to rebuild kernels with new revs of linux. No.'
Have you used Linux in the last 4 years (and no, typing ls in Debian doesn't count). None of the End user orientated distros require this any more.
'For people that want features like expose and searchlite months or years before the competition. No.'
Don't know what it is so I can't comment.
'For people that don't want to use Wine to run commercial apps. No.'
Depends on what commercial apps you want to use, and I can't say that I'd pack pure wine in the same categorize as CXOffice or (purchased) cedega here.
See my post with my source, just because the change isn't enormous in it's self doesn't mean that the environmental change incurred can't be much greater
A nice example of this is Germany, where they're setting up wind generators off shore, all in a nice line.
The problem is that after thewind has past through that, it's no longer strong enough to push clouds, so that the area just behind is drying out (IIRC the figure was 7% pa, but don't quote me on that).
It's one example I use every time Greenpeace asks me to join.
Anyhow, the real issue is (or should be) reducing our energy consummation in general, and not just throughing the problem else where until a study shows that we've screwed up yet again, and this is what Canada is doing, finding a novel way to cool the city without increasing their water useage.
First of all, it isn't made _by_ slackers, but _for_ slackers, and second the 'programmers and designers' are actually one man.
On a more serious note, I've had slackware on application servers (serving thin clients) and have never had any hassle. The 'lack of automation' is basically sticking to the KISS philosophy, and to be perfectly honest, personally I find that it's the other distro's who's toolsets are bloated, not slackware's limited. Then again, it's probably a matter of taste...
Ever tried a Mandrake install on a P133? Desktop I mean, not server. That's one of the greatest advantages of Slack.
Another is speed, gentoo may be optimised, but Slackware is so streamlined it makes up the difference.
Also, Slackware 'just works', no hassle. All my kit (tv card, sound card, network) worked straight out of the box.
Add to that the fact that Slackware is notoriously resistant to security flaws (the pam stuff didn't even touch it, since pam wasn't compiled in...) and you have a few reasons why people use Slack.
Oh, and one last thing, with Slack, you don't get lost in distro specific config files, everything's where you'd expect.
You may be joking, but database applications (and, by extension, file servers, since a fs is a kind of database) could, in theory, really benefit from this.
Imaging a server where all the data is stored on qbits, and you just read the file you need off it. The throughput would be incredible. Or mabey use this to perform an SQL query on terabytes of data in an instant (more probable I think).
Of course IANAP and this wouldn't solve bandwith problems, but hay, I can dream.
the idea i like about teleportation is where you incinerate the person. read the pattern of where their atoms are from the burn and transmit the data over optics, then use nano bots to reconstruct in some cool inside out building process. but then again i don't base my ideas in actual science, i just like the idea, let someone else figure out if it is possible
Burn? that sounds painful, but also impracticle, imaging being reconstructed with a perfect replica of 3rd degree burns on 100% of you. Also, the nano bots can't just work with thin air (or at least I think not), and even if they could, they'd be just to large and combersome to do the job right, since in order to recreate your brain in a way that you still know who you are, they'd need to recreate every single neuron simultaneously.
On another (more trekkie optimistic) note, quantum teleportation could be used for sending the information along, but it would be hellish expensive, since the twin particles will have to be transported the old way. Also this would only give teleportation between large base stations, a far cry from 'beam me up Scotty'.
This is something I posted on an earlier discussion. The fact of the matter is that once you've got to a certain level in a subject, you forget what it's like to be starting out, or even that you 'started out', and hence loose all consideration for people new to your field.
No, but automobile users, like sysadmins, are trained and tested to make sure that they know how to use their machine, the same isn't true of home users
And anyways, why are you messing with the smb.conf file or SWAT?? use the mandrake config tools and call it done. Too many newbies are being directed at advanced distros like gentoo and Debian and Slackware.... Give them the easiest for anyone to use, Mandrake 10.0 and soon to be even easier SuSE.
That's exactly my point (sorry for the SWAT reference, being predominantly Slackware myself, I don't really know what's out there).
But what's really needed is for people to be sent to the right tool for the job for them, as in, not the right tool for the job for joe h4x0r.
If home users can use linux without having to become a sysadmin, or have one tell them how useless they are, then the biggest problem with Linux on the desktop is dealt with.
It isn't even a technical problem any more, the solutions exist, we just need to point them to them.
P.S: Too all those who are complaining about an easy to use distro being just another Windows, may I remind you that what runs on one distro will run on another, and the bigger the market share, the more lickley we are to get the hardware support/games/Tax applications that everyone here is calling for.
The car analogy doesn't really work hear, since we're talking about home users (commercial users have their own sysadmins). The question is: do we want new users to have to spend time reading books in order to be able to use a Linux system effectively, or are we prepared to 'hold their hand' by providing some simple steps to allow a new user to get something running on a gentler learning curve.
While I agree with your motivation: newbie is after all a geek term for 'non geek' and hence a little pejorative, the problem is that 'user' is far too generic for these people and the other names coined for them 'Joe/Jane sixpack' and 'Grandma' are even worse.
Mabey just referring to 'new users' might be a good compromise. OTOH it's 'new user' that gave the current 'newbie'.
When a so called 'newbie' starts out he shouldn't (need to) read documentation telling him how to use vi to edit/etc/samba/smb.conf.
Instead he should be directed to a convenient administration tool (swat/webmin) which would allow him to set up his home server without 3 hours spent trying to make head or tail of his new (GNU/)Linux system.
Later, if he wants to become more proficient, or fine tune his installation (in general), then by all means show him the CLI and point him in the direction of a M for him to RT, just not straight away.
What a lot of us seem to forget all to easily is that there is something called information overload, and learning the command prompt/SysVinit runlevels/Samba configuration/hosts.Allow/Deny.... all at once is an easy way to get there. We didn't learn all of this in one weekend, so we shouldn't expect others to.
>Have you ever tried running Fedora Core 1 on a 800MHz/256MB machine?
Nop, but I have put Mandrake 9.2 on a 900Mhz, 128MB Ram, runns fine (used as a desktop + terminal server, so their are 2 people useing it at the same time).
As far as 500Mhz machines are concerned, KDE 3.1.5 on my laptop (500MHz, 182MB) beats win Me on the same config hands down, which is why it's what I run on it now.
Slashdot Mirror
ref to sig:
:-P.
Kevin Smith wouldn't agree
Burn karma burn...
Because in several of the non-profits I do IT related stuff for, they've asked me for light weight wp, for their _really_ old machines, and Abi fitted the bill...
And by _old hardware_ I mean 200Mhz range stuff...
Only problem: not everyone is like you, I know of loads of people who would really appreciate things like this, since it solves _their_ wp needs, without having a machine capable of playing Doom 3...
Oranges and Apples really.
Do you realize what you've just typed?
Would you mind justifying your post, all I can see here is that you think this/that or the other.
From what I read, the GP post was in the creative industry, and I can't see how you justify a lot of your examples:
'For anyone in the creative industry. No.'
The GP seems to prove you wrong there. (If I(m mistaken, please flame away)
'For anyone that needs Office. No. (and please don't say OpenOffice is the same)'
OpenOffice, no but a lot of non profits and governmant agencies where I live seem to think StarOffice on Linux is just fine for their needs.
'For Grandma. No.'
Mabey, never tried, but my non-geek gf (a literature student) gets on with Mandrake 9.2 just fine, and no I'm not there 9-5 everyday fixing things.
'For elementary school kids. No.'
Because it hasn't got word? I can't see what's missing here, or mabey I'm just completely out of touch with the kids around here...
'For plug and play wireless networking. No.'
Can't comment, never used wifi at home or at work, never needed to.
'For people that don't want to rebuild kernels with new revs of linux. No.'
Have you used Linux in the last 4 years (and no, typing ls in Debian doesn't count). None of the End user orientated distros require this any more.
'For people that want features like expose and searchlite months or years before the competition. No.'
Don't know what it is so I can't comment.
'For people that don't want to use Wine to run commercial apps. No.'
Depends on what commercial apps you want to use, and I can't say that I'd pack pure wine in the same categorize as CXOffice or (purchased) cedega here.
Please tell me what I've missed.
See my post with my source, just because the change isn't enormous in it's self doesn't mean that the environmental change incurred can't be much greater
No example, why should I need excuses _not_ to do something that I don't have to?
Science & Vie from last June IIRC, in the Actualités section.
A nice example of this is Germany, where they're setting up wind generators off shore, all in a nice line.
.
The problem is that after thewind has past through that, it's no longer strong enough to push clouds, so that the area just behind is drying out (IIRC the figure was 7% pa, but don't quote me on that).
It's one example I use every time Greenpeace asks me to join.
Anyhow, the real issue is (or should be) reducing our energy consummation in general, and not just throughing the problem else where until a study shows that we've screwed up yet again, and this is what Canada is doing, finding a novel way to cool the city without increasing their water useage
Congrats.
First of all, it isn't made _by_ slackers, but _for_ slackers, and second the 'programmers and designers' are actually one man.
On a more serious note, I've had slackware on application servers (serving thin clients) and have never had any hassle. The 'lack of automation' is basically sticking to the KISS philosophy, and to be perfectly honest, personally I find that it's the other distro's who's toolsets are bloated, not slackware's limited. Then again, it's probably a matter of taste...
Ever tried a Mandrake install on a P133? Desktop I mean, not server. That's one of the greatest advantages of Slack.
Another is speed, gentoo may be optimised, but Slackware is so streamlined it makes up the difference.
Also, Slackware 'just works', no hassle. All my kit (tv card, sound card, network) worked straight out of the box.
Add to that the fact that Slackware is notoriously resistant to security flaws (the pam stuff didn't even touch it, since pam wasn't compiled in...) and you have a few reasons why people use Slack.
Oh, and one last thing, with Slack, you don't get lost in distro specific config files, everything's where you'd expect.
HTH
David
Well I did that last summer (slack 8.1, 386 4MB), Had loads of fun :-)
You may be joking, but database applications (and, by extension, file servers, since a fs is a kind of database) could, in theory, really benefit from this.
Imaging a server where all the data is stored on qbits, and you just read the file you need off it. The throughput would be incredible. Or mabey use this to perform an SQL query on terabytes of data in an instant (more probable I think).
Of course IANAP and this wouldn't solve bandwith problems, but hay, I can dream.
the idea i like about teleportation is where you incinerate the person. read the pattern of where their atoms are from the burn and transmit the data over optics, then use nano bots to reconstruct in some cool inside out building process. but then again i don't base my ideas in actual science, i just like the idea, let someone else figure out if it is possible
Burn? that sounds painful, but also impracticle, imaging being reconstructed with a perfect replica of 3rd degree burns on 100% of you. Also, the nano bots can't just work with thin air (or at least I think not), and even if they could, they'd be just to large and combersome to do the job right, since in order to recreate your brain in a way that you still know who you are, they'd need to recreate every single neuron simultaneously.
On another (more trekkie optimistic) note, quantum teleportation could be used for sending the information along, but it would be hellish expensive, since the twin particles will have to be transported the old way. Also this would only give teleportation between large base stations, a far cry from 'beam me up Scotty'.
This is something I posted on an earlier discussion. The fact of the matter is that once you've got to a certain level in a subject, you forget what it's like to be starting out, or even that you 'started out', and hence loose all consideration for people new to your field.
Not a dig, just a remark on human nature
No, but automobile users, like sysadmins, are trained and tested to make sure that they know how to use their machine, the same isn't true of home users
Seriously, does anyone have experience with trying to use MPlayer on the site with the windows codecs installed?
And anyways, why are you messing with the smb.conf file or SWAT?? use the mandrake config tools and call it done. Too many newbies are being directed at advanced distros like gentoo and Debian and Slackware.... Give them the easiest for anyone to use, Mandrake 10.0 and soon to be even easier SuSE.
That's exactly my point (sorry for the SWAT reference, being predominantly Slackware myself, I don't really know what's out there).
But what's really needed is for people to be sent to the right tool for the job for them, as in, not the right tool for the job for joe h4x0r.
If home users can use linux without having to become a sysadmin, or have one tell them how useless they are, then the biggest problem with Linux on the desktop is dealt with.
It isn't even a technical problem any more, the solutions exist, we just need to point them to them.
P.S: Too all those who are complaining about an easy to use distro being just another Windows, may I remind you that what runs on one distro will run on another, and the bigger the market share, the more lickley we are to get the hardware support/games/Tax applications that everyone here is calling for.
The car analogy doesn't really work hear, since we're talking about home users (commercial users have their own sysadmins). The question is: do we want new users to have to spend time reading books in order to be able to use a Linux system effectively, or are we prepared to 'hold their hand' by providing some simple steps to allow a new user to get something running on a gentler learning curve.
While I agree with your motivation: newbie is after all a geek term for 'non geek' and hence a little pejorative, the problem is that 'user' is far too generic for these people and the other names coined for them 'Joe/Jane sixpack' and 'Grandma' are even worse.
Mabey just referring to 'new users' might be a good compromise. OTOH it's 'new user' that gave the current 'newbie'.
When a so called 'newbie' starts out he shouldn't (need to) read documentation telling him how to use vi to edit /etc/samba/smb.conf.
Instead he should be directed to a convenient administration tool (swat/webmin) which would allow him to set up his home server without 3 hours spent trying to make head or tail of his new (GNU/)Linux system.
Later, if he wants to become more proficient, or fine tune his installation (in general), then by all means show him the CLI and point him in the direction of a M for him to RT, just not straight away.
What a lot of us seem to forget all to easily is that there is something called information overload, and learning the command prompt/SysVinit runlevels/Samba configuration/hosts.Allow/Deny.... all at once is an easy way to get there. We didn't learn all of this in one weekend, so we shouldn't expect others to.
Sourceforge?
>Have you ever tried running Fedora Core 1 on a 800MHz/256MB machine?
Nop, but I have put Mandrake 9.2 on a 900Mhz, 128MB Ram, runns fine (used as a desktop + terminal server, so their are 2 people useing it at the same time).
As far as 500Mhz machines are concerned, KDE 3.1.5 on my laptop (500MHz, 182MB) beats win Me on the same config hands down, which is why it's what I run on it now.
4 letters OSDL, if MS goes after RedHat, IBM will jump in since it's their investment that's on the line.
Depends where you are, free health care here is brilliant, you can hardly find better.