A men... I agree with you on so many levels - I'm glad someone speaking out about the community interest in this message comes from someone else who isn't judging this based on the content of the interesting post. I invite you to post to my journal - in a reply to the post I listed a few questions I'm interested to see people's responces to.
Ok, here's an ontopic (ie, to the/. article) post that just happens to be attached to the infamous OT post. If this comment get's mod'd offtopic by editors and not users then we can postulate that assuming a responce to something deemed OT does not imply it (the responce) is also OT and there is a flaw in the script that is hitting all comments here.
Anyway, I found this article late, and that's why I'm posting here. I was thinking about the implications of the recent US ruling about liability of software makers for security vulerabilities. I am to a degree in favor of this type of thing as I think we need a little better accountability, however I fear what it may mean, and this Oracle issue is sort of in the spot light now with it. One can use pre/post conditions to their functions and one can then create a formal proof by dragging their post conditions across the code and see how this relates to the pre conditions. Similarly, methods exist to prove that a loop will end given certain conditions (ie the pre conditions). But, there is a fundamental concept of computer science, the halting problem, that says you can not use a computer to see if a program will run forever. Similarly I fear issues exist in proving that one piece of source both runs properly and is secure. Plus, a major issue of computer security is how computer software is used. This anticipation is discussed in this paper which I read recently and seems to have more interest given the recent changes in attitude towards security.
Oh, what the heck, I'd sure like to see if a script goes through to mod all replies down again. I'm sure I'll get a message if/when it does - but I just don't have the time to keep reloading the thread to see.
While on tour of the Strasburg Railroad's locomotive repair area the tour guide mentioned how they work hard for great accuracy. On cue, the one machinist yelled to the other "How big do you want that rod?" to which the other replied "Two hammer handles and a fist."
I just went through their builder and it didn't spit out a resume in the end. It just seemed to make a thing for their interal job connection objectives. There was however an Ultimate Resume Guide that listed some tips and things.
Especially the ones with phone jacks (if you're stuck with dialup).
It's not just for dialup, DSL comes over phone lines thus surge protecting that stuff is also a good idea. If you have cable modem, then you can also surge protect that (probably a good idea to surge protect your cable TV line even if you don't have a cable modem). Plus, you should surge protect ethernet (BP280s as well as others have this) around servers and if you're sharing a LAN maybe with a neighbor or something like that.
altered the "reason modifier" in my user preferences such that Funny comments got rated -1.
Do you know that setting it as -1 means it just gets 1 point taken away, if you really don't want to see them, push them down to -5, even if they reach +5 then they'll go to -1. You probably already knew this but I wasn't sure you did based on the context* of your post.
seems as though the professor should be the party suing HP, not the university
Eventhough the work was done by a person of whom you know the name, that does not mean that that person holds the rights to the patent/development/idea. In this case the person's employeer owns the rights and it is the responsibility of the owner (ie the one who stands to benefit monitarily) to defend what they own.
I just crawled around the site a bit, and the only search I could find was for classifieds or to get a new house. Why does a news paper site not have a search feature? What if I wanted to see what else may have been covered by this paper on this subject? I see the link on the site's main page to the article referenced, and I even tried things like http://www.theithacajournal.com/search/ or http://www.theithacajournal.com/search.html and I got their "We're Sorry The page you are looking for could not be found. It may have been removed, or is otherwise unavailable." message and it even has such nice searches for careers, cars, and classifieds, but not what I'm looking for.
But why does everyone think media hyped robot vs. robot competitions were the start of things? MIT for years put students against students building robots from the same set of materials for the battle arena of who can collect the most ping-pong balls. This competition was great, it was not only interesting, but the behind the scences views of the creators working on their robot setups, and the insight into strategy* was also interesting. The modern day over hyped, cartoonized naming, and street fighter-esq "battles" are so crappy compared to the good MIT battles. Anyone remember when the top builders from MIT went to China to work in teams of two (one MIT'er one Chinese) to get around a language barrior to develop robots?
* - there seemed to be two prevailing strategies: one was to put as many ping-pong balls into your base/hole/area/whatever the other was to put just a few (sometimes just one) and then block your opponents ability to put any (or few) into their base/hold/area/whatever.
Unless your uncle can provide something other than software engineering...
The person who asked/. said his uncle has done some coding for his business. To me that implies that the uncle has some knowledge about the programming languages he used for his business and may have the ability to fit into a coding team, but not necessarily into a design team. There are few places that are looking to a hire an in-house software developer who handles the entire design and development process in-house. To me, someone who may interview said uncle, developing software for your business does not mean you understand things like the waterfall model. To me a good design almost codes itself and I'd prefer to place experienced persons (not just expeirenced in running a business, I mean experienced in the software development process as a whole) at the design phase and new hires or those with less experience in the coding positions - at least until they begin to understand my company's hirarchy and the product line we develop.
I have the Docuprint P8 (not the P8e since as you said the p8e is post script and we all know that's easy to get working). I shall try the HP4 driver for it and interestingly enough I've had that tip suggest for my other laser printer that seems less than supported - the Sharp UX-3600M - that thing I less than 3 years old and Sharp doesn't even list it as ever having existed on their website and they have no intentions themselves of making XP drivers... Sigh... I have the worst luck at picking printers.
but my fakeemail@theirdomain is a legitimate email address that I keep since it's funny and your code prevents me from signing up. Does your use of preveting root prevent me from signing up with root@myowndomain?
I guess the real question is how well it can handle some of the cheap Windows-only printers that are given away for $99 that don't have Linux drivers available anywhere.
It's not just the cheap printers that are sometimes windows only... I have a xerox laser printer without linux driver support and it's a few years old. So, yes, a test of those almost-throw-away-printers-as-their-cost-is-almost -that-of-the-cartidges-themselves printers is interesting, what about just general SOHO or regular home printer support?
Choose your fake e-mail id wisely. When one of those places opened up with free emails I got the account "fakeemail@yahoohotmailetc.com" and interestingly enough some decent perl coders out there have started to filter out people who use words like fake and email and I've also noticed some that prevent you from using their own domain name (as suggested in an above post).
So now I can't use that account even for legit email that maybe I wanted to get...
Sorry, but I just took a shower and thought up something else. Perhaps my original explaination of defining a session was a tad obtuse (I didn't expect such good questions about a simple toss out of an idea). I also look at OS and browser information. If there is an IP and a "current" session going on from that IP, but the new entry has a different OS I deem that to be a different session. Since sessions are never really locked in the dbase, if there is another entry from that IP with the original OS within the time limit for that session, then that session is updated. This would handle people like me with a NAT who have a win box, a linux box, and a few sun boxen. Will this solve the problem? Well, consider a corporation with a proxy and 200 drone clients all running standardized OS and browser and they are all unrythmically surfing my site, then the answer is no, they would all be lumped into one session as they are indistinguishable from the log based sense. However, extend this worse case senario to them all also (since it's standard) not accepting any cookies from anyone, and they all got their login to the nytimes site from a/. post. Now, how in the world do you expect to do any better? You can't rely on some sort of "well, this page is linked to that one so users must follow some sort of linear progression" since we all see how that is flawed.
Is my way an end all - no. Is it better than cookies - oh the fun on a/. debate, but I don't think so in an amortized sense. Is relying on one and only one way to get your data ever a good idea - well, that's up to you.
I see cookies as pass/fail type things. Either you get good data or you don't. My way I think has a little grey area where there are the obvious few clicks here and there from someone with a dedicated IP and there are those that are more tricky, but with some good coding I feel there are means to clean up the data and make some better judgements over the first impression of "he's stupid to be just relying on IPs, there's nothing one can get form that nonsense." I think a more appropriate statement covering many means of web traffic analysis would be "He's silly to be relying on a single means of data interpretation and even sillier if he thinks there exists a solution that does not have a senerio circumventing it."
Oh, I also forgot to add, you mentioned the AOL proxy - yup, we know all about that, when we do a host look up we don't just look at the.com.uk.whatever part, we also look for key words, like having both "aol" and "proxy" in the name usually implies that it's from an aol proxy and should be judged accordingly. As I said, one must know the shortcomings, and we do realize you sir can go get hab136.com and name your computer proxy.aol.hab136.com and it would fool that lookup (ok, it would do it since I didn't code it to make sure the aol part was right before the.com part) but how many people aer going to go to those lengths in an attempt to skew web statistical data?
Another job of the data miner is to look for these types of anomolus trends and account for them. As you see odd jumps around from things that look like proxies, add a rule that you feel it's from a proxy. Will this catch them all? Heck no. Even if you miss some, you can still get some bearings on the popularity of some pages with respect to others on your site.
Underestimating the session information I think is a good thing. The goal of session identification (atleast for me) was to reduce the reliance on these big "hit count" numbers. But to each his own...
Yes, proxies are common. Yes, NATs are common, too (don't forget them). But I think you may have a different goal or at the least a misnotion. There is no means that will guarantee that you can distinguish every single web user from every other web user. Proxies are one obvious impediment to IP monitoring only. People disabling cookies sure shoots down a heavy reliance on cookies. But even if you had a magic way of telling every computer client, you still wouldn't be able to tell when dad surfs the web and turns it over to his daughter. Even logins to a site are meaningless since I can log in to a page and someone else using my workstation can surf. Expecting there to be a means to get everything and debating about the known shortcomings of certain solutions is fruitless. Yes, my approach does not account for proxies in a means that may satisfy you (and me), cookies can be turned off (a means that doesn't completely satisfy me), people can publish on/. their login (think NY Times) to a site. There is no magic bullet, but I hope to offer another solution to the mix to use in conjunction with other solutions. The key is to understand the shortcomings and be able to not be an idiot and say "well, my dbase shows that this one person did this, and did that, and did this." One should not look that fine in granularity. Yes, some people behind some proxies will be able to skew certain things in certain ways, but won't others behind other proxies skew it in the opposite way? That is why we need to look at overall trends. Relying on one weeks worth of data, or even a single month is meaningless. Relying on one means to judge pages used in a session is just as naive. If your site has a means of cookie'ing I'm sure you realize the shortcomings, maybe running something that does not rely at all on cookies (IP based) along with it and comparing the data will help you to better understand things. But realize this: if you run an IP based program, a cookie based program, and have authentication of your user sessions - you will still miss some things, the key is to be aware of this and judge accordingly.
Slashdot Mirror
A men... I agree with you on so many levels - I'm glad someone speaking out about the community interest in this message comes from someone else who isn't judging this based on the content of the interesting post. I invite you to post to my journal - in a reply to the post I listed a few questions I'm interested to see people's responces to.
Ok, here's an ontopic (ie, to the /. article) post that just happens to be attached to the infamous OT post. If this comment get's mod'd offtopic by editors and not users then we can postulate that assuming a responce to something deemed OT does not imply it (the responce) is also OT and there is a flaw in the script that is hitting all comments here.
Anyway, I found this article late, and that's why I'm posting here. I was thinking about the implications of the recent US ruling about liability of software makers for security vulerabilities. I am to a degree in favor of this type of thing as I think we need a little better accountability, however I fear what it may mean, and this Oracle issue is sort of in the spot light now with it. One can use pre/post conditions to their functions and one can then create a formal proof by dragging their post conditions across the code and see how this relates to the pre conditions. Similarly, methods exist to prove that a loop will end given certain conditions (ie the pre conditions). But, there is a fundamental concept of computer science, the halting problem, that says you can not use a computer to see if a program will run forever. Similarly I fear issues exist in proving that one piece of source both runs properly and is secure. Plus, a major issue of computer security is how computer software is used. This anticipation is discussed in this paper which I read recently and seems to have more interest given the recent changes in attitude towards security.
Oh, what the heck, I'd sure like to see if a script goes through to mod all replies down again. I'm sure I'll get a message if/when it does - but I just don't have the time to keep reloading the thread to see.
While on tour of the Strasburg Railroad's locomotive repair area the tour guide mentioned how they work hard for great accuracy. On cue, the one machinist yelled to the other "How big do you want that rod?" to which the other replied "Two hammer handles and a fist."
My old encylopedia says it's precisely 300,000 km and it also says that "someday we hope to go there."
All that and the Kaiser Wilhelm still doesn't know what to do with his country.
I just went through their builder and it didn't spit out a resume in the end. It just seemed to make a thing for their interal job connection objectives. There was however an Ultimate Resume Guide that listed some tips and things.
It would make a very cool anti-theft device...
Check out this device.
Especially the ones with phone jacks (if you're stuck with dialup).
It's not just for dialup, DSL comes over phone lines thus surge protecting that stuff is also a good idea. If you have cable modem, then you can also surge protect that (probably a good idea to surge protect your cable TV line even if you don't have a cable modem). Plus, you should surge protect ethernet (BP280s as well as others have this) around servers and if you're sharing a LAN maybe with a neighbor or something like that.
altered the "reason modifier" in my user preferences such that Funny comments got rated -1.
Do you know that setting it as -1 means it just gets 1 point taken away, if you really don't want to see them, push them down to -5, even if they reach +5 then they'll go to -1. You probably already knew this but I wasn't sure you did based on the context* of your post.
* - a german word meaning "You're screwed"
What I want to know is how do I find out who has me on there friend/foe list?
/.
/. I've found (yet) but they call these people your "freaks.
Look up your "fans" to see who has you on their friends list... that part is explained in
The trick I've found is to see who hate you... it's not listed anywhere on
You'll notice my links use the "my" name... just change it to ~username for someone and look 'em up, too.
Geez, who cares if the picture is a little early?
Well, this company in question has had hissy-fits in the past about possible early leaked pictures.
seems as though the professor should be the party suing HP, not the university
Eventhough the work was done by a person of whom you know the name, that does not mean that that person holds the rights to the patent/development/idea. In this case the person's employeer owns the rights and it is the responsibility of the owner (ie the one who stands to benefit monitarily) to defend what they own.
I just crawled around the site a bit, and the only search I could find was for classifieds or to get a new house. Why does a news paper site not have a search feature? What if I wanted to see what else may have been covered by this paper on this subject? I see the link on the site's main page to the article referenced, and I even tried things like http://www.theithacajournal.com/search/ or http://www.theithacajournal.com/search.html and I got their "We're Sorry The page you are looking for could not be found. It may have been removed, or is otherwise unavailable." message and it even has such nice searches for careers, cars, and classifieds, but not what I'm looking for.
But why does everyone think media hyped robot vs. robot competitions were the start of things? MIT for years put students against students building robots from the same set of materials for the battle arena of who can collect the most ping-pong balls. This competition was great, it was not only interesting, but the behind the scences views of the creators working on their robot setups, and the insight into strategy* was also interesting. The modern day over hyped, cartoonized naming, and street fighter-esq "battles" are so crappy compared to the good MIT battles. Anyone remember when the top builders from MIT went to China to work in teams of two (one MIT'er one Chinese) to get around a language barrior to develop robots?
* - there seemed to be two prevailing strategies: one was to put as many ping-pong balls into your base/hole/area/whatever the other was to put just a few (sometimes just one) and then block your opponents ability to put any (or few) into their base/hold/area/whatever.
Unless your uncle can provide something other than software engineering...
/. said his uncle has done some coding for his business. To me that implies that the uncle has some knowledge about the programming languages he used for his business and may have the ability to fit into a coding team, but not necessarily into a design team. There are few places that are looking to a hire an in-house software developer who handles the entire design and development process in-house. To me, someone who may interview said uncle, developing software for your business does not mean you understand things like the waterfall model. To me a good design almost codes itself and I'd prefer to place experienced persons (not just expeirenced in running a business, I mean experienced in the software development process as a whole) at the design phase and new hires or those with less experience in the coding positions - at least until they begin to understand my company's hirarchy and the product line we develop.
The person who asked
I have the Docuprint P8 (not the P8e since as you said the p8e is post script and we all know that's easy to get working). I shall try the HP4 driver for it and interestingly enough I've had that tip suggest for my other laser printer that seems less than supported - the Sharp UX-3600M - that thing I less than 3 years old and Sharp doesn't even list it as ever having existed on their website and they have no intentions themselves of making XP drivers... Sigh... I have the worst luck at picking printers.
It's the first weekday after Christmas. Think about the "traditional" Christmas exchanging of gifts often in boxes...
but my fakeemail@theirdomain is a legitimate email address that I keep since it's funny and your code prevents me from signing up. Does your use of preveting root prevent me from signing up with root@myowndomain?
I guess the real question is how well it can handle some of the cheap Windows-only printers that are given away for $99 that don't have Linux drivers available anywhere.
t -that-of-the-cartidges-themselves printers is interesting, what about just general SOHO or regular home printer support?
It's not just the cheap printers that are sometimes windows only... I have a xerox laser printer without linux driver support and it's a few years old. So, yes, a test of those almost-throw-away-printers-as-their-cost-is-almos
Choose your fake e-mail id wisely. When one of those places opened up with free emails I got the account "fakeemail@yahoohotmailetc.com" and interestingly enough some decent perl coders out there have started to filter out people who use words like fake and email and I've also noticed some that prevent you from using their own domain name (as suggested in an above post).
So now I can't use that account even for legit email that maybe I wanted to get...
Learn to hit the parent links of the main thread postings so you see all the comments and no top garbage. Like this.
So you mean a hacker is not one who makes things with an axe? Great, I'll have to go get a new one of these dictionary things...
Sorry, but I just took a shower and thought up something else. Perhaps my original explaination of defining a session was a tad obtuse (I didn't expect such good questions about a simple toss out of an idea). I also look at OS and browser information. If there is an IP and a "current" session going on from that IP, but the new entry has a different OS I deem that to be a different session. Since sessions are never really locked in the dbase, if there is another entry from that IP with the original OS within the time limit for that session, then that session is updated. This would handle people like me with a NAT who have a win box, a linux box, and a few sun boxen. Will this solve the problem? Well, consider a corporation with a proxy and 200 drone clients all running standardized OS and browser and they are all unrythmically surfing my site, then the answer is no, they would all be lumped into one session as they are indistinguishable from the log based sense. However, extend this worse case senario to them all also (since it's standard) not accepting any cookies from anyone, and they all got their login to the nytimes site from a /. post. Now, how in the world do you expect to do any better? You can't rely on some sort of "well, this page is linked to that one so users must follow some sort of linear progression" since we all see how that is flawed.
/. debate, but I don't think so in an amortized sense. Is relying on one and only one way to get your data ever a good idea - well, that's up to you.
Is my way an end all - no. Is it better than cookies - oh the fun on a
I see cookies as pass/fail type things. Either you get good data or you don't. My way I think has a little grey area where there are the obvious few clicks here and there from someone with a dedicated IP and there are those that are more tricky, but with some good coding I feel there are means to clean up the data and make some better judgements over the first impression of "he's stupid to be just relying on IPs, there's nothing one can get form that nonsense." I think a more appropriate statement covering many means of web traffic analysis would be "He's silly to be relying on a single means of data interpretation and even sillier if he thinks there exists a solution that does not have a senerio circumventing it."
Oh, I also forgot to add, you mentioned the AOL proxy - yup, we know all about that, when we do a host look up we don't just look at the .com .uk .whatever part, we also look for key words, like having both "aol" and "proxy" in the name usually implies that it's from an aol proxy and should be judged accordingly. As I said, one must know the shortcomings, and we do realize you sir can go get hab136.com and name your computer proxy.aol.hab136.com and it would fool that lookup (ok, it would do it since I didn't code it to make sure the aol part was right before the .com part) but how many people aer going to go to those lengths in an attempt to skew web statistical data?
Another job of the data miner is to look for these types of anomolus trends and account for them. As you see odd jumps around from things that look like proxies, add a rule that you feel it's from a proxy. Will this catch them all? Heck no. Even if you miss some, you can still get some bearings on the popularity of some pages with respect to others on your site.
Underestimating the session information I think is a good thing. The goal of session identification (atleast for me) was to reduce the reliance on these big "hit count" numbers. But to each his own...
Yes, proxies are common. Yes, NATs are common, too (don't forget them). But I think you may have a different goal or at the least a misnotion. There is no means that will guarantee that you can distinguish every single web user from every other web user. Proxies are one obvious impediment to IP monitoring only. People disabling cookies sure shoots down a heavy reliance on cookies. But even if you had a magic way of telling every computer client, you still wouldn't be able to tell when dad surfs the web and turns it over to his daughter. Even logins to a site are meaningless since I can log in to a page and someone else using my workstation can surf. Expecting there to be a means to get everything and debating about the known shortcomings of certain solutions is fruitless. Yes, my approach does not account for proxies in a means that may satisfy you (and me), cookies can be turned off (a means that doesn't completely satisfy me), people can publish on /. their login (think NY Times) to a site. There is no magic bullet, but I hope to offer another solution to the mix to use in conjunction with other solutions. The key is to understand the shortcomings and be able to not be an idiot and say "well, my dbase shows that this one person did this, and did that, and did this." One should not look that fine in granularity. Yes, some people behind some proxies will be able to skew certain things in certain ways, but won't others behind other proxies skew it in the opposite way? That is why we need to look at overall trends. Relying on one weeks worth of data, or even a single month is meaningless. Relying on one means to judge pages used in a session is just as naive. If your site has a means of cookie'ing I'm sure you realize the shortcomings, maybe running something that does not rely at all on cookies (IP based) along with it and comparing the data will help you to better understand things. But realize this: if you run an IP based program, a cookie based program, and have authentication of your user sessions - you will still miss some things, the key is to be aware of this and judge accordingly.