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FIRST Robotics Competition Starts Today
cscx writes: "Today is the kickoff day of the 2002 FIRST Robotics Competition. For those of you that don't know what FIRST (Dean Kamen, Segway, IT) is, it's an organization meant to interest high-school students in science and engineering by giving them 6 weeks to build a complete functioning robot. (By the way, FIRST is what most likely inspired BattleBots) Teams, although they require funding to pay for the kits, receive many different mechanical and electrical (the programmable control system kicks ass! :) parts in the kits, along with full copies (donated by the companies) of Autodesk Inventor, Character Studio, 3D Studio Max, and Reactor, as well as Microsoft Office XP, Frontpage, and Project. There is a live webcast of the kickoff, with an unveiling of the game at 11:00 EST." Update: 01/05 16:15 GMT by T : Here's a link to the webcast information page; the webcast is available in WMF and RealMedia formats, and will be archived as RealMedia.
FIRST is what most likely inspired BattleBots
Actually Battlebots is a rip off of the British Robot Wars.
FIRST is a great program. There is a similar program in Canada called Canada FIRST inspired by FIRST and when I was in High School I had a blast. As an older person, we can mentor the students, though I have not been close to my school and have not asked to mentor.
What I want to know is why Battlebots is being carried by the Comedy Network here in Canada. What the hell does Battlebots have to do with comedic television programming? The only thing I could come up with is the fact that it still meets with the Comedy Network's slogan: "Time Well Wasted."
I know the question sounds pretty anal retentive, but I can remember back to when Ren and Stimpy was being broadcast by Muchmusic, and it got yanked off the air when people complained to the CRTC (Canadian Radio and Telecommunications Commission... kinda like the FCC for you south-of-the-border types) that it didn't belong on Much because it wasn't "music related programming."
Um. How far offtopic am I now?
-DrPsycho - Coping with reality since 1975
- The kickoff is taking place in a hockey rink
- Playground balls have been 'thrown' across the stage
- Basketball-lookalike balls have been thrown onto the stage as well
- Some sort of octagonal movable cart with PVC pipe extending into the air (looks like a type of goal) was mysteriously wheeled onto the stage...
They have said that there will be more room for 'roughing' in this year's game... roughing, one of the most fun part of the competitions, had been seriously downplayed in last year's competition.Dean also said that Disney is in some super-secret marketing scheme with the Segways to "make them available more quickly..." with something to do with the Regional and National competions. It will be unveiled in a few weeks.
There is an interesting Nasa Pnuematics Workshop video that might be useful for people interested...
I (jaren havell) was supposed to be joining the Cheshire,Ct shcool in this, but since im not part of their school district (Homeschooler in southinghton) i cant participate, and i couldent do southinghton either
this totaly sucks
The FIRST program sounds like a great way to introduce high school students to undergraduate degrees in the engineering fields. I entered my engineering college as a CS major, but quickly found myself branching out into the mechanical engineering field to fufill my general science credits.
Not only does this allow males to explore engineering fields, but this introduces engineering to females at a lower level than college courses. I feel early introduction to technical fields is fundamental in opening the door for more females to enter, and be accepted, in to these "male-dominated" fields.
It's good to see that companies are donating software and kits, but I'll be impressed if they burn their own ROMs and use erector sets.
I saw something similar to this at Syracuse University a few (3-4?) years ago. Students created robots with the ability to find their way through a plywood maze, locate a burning candle, and put out the flame. There were some interesting designs, and the task made each student put a variety of features onto the Robot. Sensors and logic to find their way through the maze without a) bumping into walls, b) going down the same hallway twice. Sensors of various type to locate a candle in each room of the maze, and some type of system to put out a candle (light sensors or heat sensors, attached to a fan, etc.) Most of the login boards were available for about $100, and programmed in C. Cool toy to play with if you have a reason.
I almost wish I had a reason to make something like this myself.
-Pete
Soccer Goal Plans
Battlebots came out of Lucas Films. The FX Guys wanted to have fun and started with dog fighting model planes. It grew from there.
Coming out of the MIT Lego competitions, Botball robots are autonomous. To build one you have to understand not only mechanical engineering but basic control systems, autonomy, sensors and sensor fusion, and also how all these things work together. Botball teams also compete directly against each other, so you have to consider how your robot will find solutions despite the other robot's actions. Lastly, Botball is inexpensive: you don't have to be a private school :-) in order to compete.
Given the huge prominence given on TV to those misnamed radio-controlled go-karts, I'm relieved to see that there is still a lot of grassroots interest in building true autonomous machines of this kind.
FIRST robots aren't autonomous. Think Battlebots.
Survival Research Labs is what inspired Battlebots.
Starman97@Gmail.com (bring it on spammers)
I helped First test this out, but now it seems to have gone international. First Lego League International . It's pretty cool - here though the challanges are known before when building your robot, and you are giving a Lego Mindstorms kit and can use your own components. It's mainly for late elementry or jr.high school - but it can be mentered by anyone. It was a LOT of fun when I did it except the other team destroeyd our robot...
There's another competition meant for older (post HS) participants. It's called FIST and the project's goals are to build a robot with the biggest gaping asshole possible.
My company does this every year. And of course it's supposed to be a few of our employees overseeing the High School students while they build the robot. What actually happens is the Engineers from my company argue over the design and concept until the last minute. Then they work long hours near the end of the deadline to finish it. The kids get bored, the Non-Engineers from my company to most the work and we get our butts whipped at the competition. Although they may not learn much about robotics, they are getting a first rate education in office politics, theory over implementation and other great office battles not taught in any college. Of course they do get a free trip to Disney World.
http://www.kubuntu.org/
In my opinion, the kids would learn more if corporations got out of it. It's always apparent when some kid brings a project to school that you know his parents put together for him, and that's what this looks like. What's the point? Sit the kid down in front of a couple hours of junkyard wars, give them a Lego mindstorm set (at the most) and then let them do the work.
And all the cheering just makes it a little too much like those friday night high school football games. uh, thanks, but no.
Last year I visited JPL while they were having their Open House. It was a very cool day that included some great behind-the-scenes stuff, and many of the 2001 FIRST competitors robots were on display as well. I shot some video and posted it to Reality Feed, check it out.
...but you're totally right. at my high school, kids were picked by teachers [read: if the teachers like you, you go, otherwise you're screwed]. "building" the robot was done pretty much totally by the corporate sponsor. the kids just kind of got to play with the remote control.
wissahickon school district in ambler, pennsylvania - i'm looking at you.
FIRST robotics sucks, it's a complete joke. All hail KA-MEN. Ahhh Ooohhm. Ahhh Ooohhm. Ahhh Ooohhm.
that Java is slow and unsuitable for robotic research.
Man, the poor little buggers have to learn Inventor? Man, it would take a couple of months to be able do draw something, let alone design a robot.
Give them a basic package so at least they could get something done. Giving a package like inventor to high school kids is like giving tanks to the high school fencing team.
FIRST is a wonderful thing. I am currently a high school Junior, and am active in my school's robotics club. Our club is new, and we have competed in TCEA and BEST for the first time this year. Unfortuinantly, my school's robotics club isn't doing FIRST this year, because of the massive time needed to participate in it. My school is very competitive, so most robotics members cannot afford the grade drop FIRST would produce right before college apps. We will participate in Houston's FIRST next year, when our members will mostly be seniors, and have already applied to colleges.
What the crap is that all about? It makes me think that Real is trying to simply irritate you into paying 10 bucks for the player...what a scam.
This is an event every year at Drexel University. It's pretty friggin' cool. You can walk around the displays and watch the teams work on the robots... some of the 'bots are pretty damn impressive too. The next generation of geeks! :-D
Humorless sig goes here.
Watching the kickoff event right now-- you know it's screwed up when it takes three hours to explain the competition, and for the adults to get an idea of the rules and how it's scored.
For anyone interested in a very basic overview of the parts (possibly below the level of slashdot geeks...), Olin College created a tutorial for new teams at http://first.robotics.olin.edu. Right now, the college's connection seems to be overwhelemed; a mirror is at http://www.logicalrealism.org/first/. It also includes some of the systems discussed in the kickoff, namely the light-sensor tracker and a thrower.
uhh, Sorry jim, but that's not correct.
-=Eric
www.geoskd.com
I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
On the topic of high school robotics...
I was involved in a high school robotics competition called Botball, organized by the KISS Institute for Practical Robotics. This program involved constructing autonomous robots out of Lego Technic parts, using Interactive C to write programs to control them.
The controller used was MIT's Handyboard, and the Botball game involved collecting ping pong balls and other such items to be depostited in a goal to score points (with various complexities coming into play). One part of the competition was head-to-head; two teams' robots then battled it out to see who could score more points.
The Botball program offers high school students exposure to engineering and software development concepts, as well as problem solving with specific goals and deadlines, all in a team setting. With competition at the regional and national levels, the program is challenging and rewarding for students. And it's a lot of fun too.
I was looking at Drexel for college either next year or the year after (depends on if I can graduate early). I was wondering what the different tracks (IT/Software Engineering/CS/CE) are like. If you have time I'd be interested in your oppinions of them. Thanks.
Shine on, you crazy diamond.
I live just down the road from Dean Kamen--why wasn't I informed about this competition?? I would love to have seen it live!
324006
All that I knew is that NASA(?) was giving our school 10,000$ to compete in some competition.
The fun thing is that I am in North Dakota, but our regionals are in St. Louis!(Any LUG meetings there?)
Maybe my teacher will keep her site for us updated.
(No Comment on the logo or motto...I was working that day and missed all of it, so much for tux being on our logo)
forget it.
My school was watching the webcast, and wondering how it got so /.ed.
MIT's 2.70 (Now called 2.007) is much older than any of the television shows or competitions. It is a contest held by the Mechanical Engineering department.
Get busy living or get busy dying. Carpe diem.
Well rats! It's over before I even heard about it. How about an advance notice next time? And how about holding it at some decent hour? 6:00 a.m. pst is just a little early for some of us.
Not only am I able to participate in FIRST as I'm a highschool student in the program but I get to program the sucker. Working with some wierd assembler parsed language on very limited is going to be fun. Plus, I get to learn a little bit more on the hardware side. Yes, the electronics are given to the team as a kit like structure but the actuall workings are not. Such elements as a zero degree turning radius feature are fun to make and watch. Not to mention moving the cool arms and hydrolics. I'm just hoping that we go to the finals in Florida again like we did the previous two years.
As a former FIRST team member, (Go Team 85! Go BOB!) I can say without reservation that this program is excellent. It does just what it was created to do: it inspires students to pursue careers in science and technology.
As many of you probably realize, there's much, much more that goes into a team's season that simply building the robot. Here's a rough breakdown of the 'season':
-Kickoff: The game, the rules, and the items supplied to the teams are described and distributed.
-Design: Students and corporate engineers work together to design a robot that performs the necessary tasks to play the game with the materials they are allowed to use. Concepts become sketches, sketches become designs, designs become blueprints.
Construction: The robot is put together. Students and engineers fabricate the frame and construct the robot. Control, drive, pneumatic, and sensory systems are installed.
Programming: The electronic control system (based on Parallax's BASIC Stamp) is programmed.
Testing and Practice: The robot is tested, and bugs are worked out. Drivers are selected, and practice playing the game.
The ideal final product is a high-performance robotic athlete. This all happens within 6 weeks. The robot is then shipped to be approved for competition.
There's even more that goes on during the pre-competition season. Funds are raised (this isn't cheap, by any means), and community awareness is promoted. On several occasions, my team has taken robots from previous years and visited local elementary and junior-high schools. There are also several non-game awards, such as the Chairman's Award, awards presented by Autodesk, Judge's award, and awards for sportsmanship and community involvement.
The regional and national competitions are some of the most intense and exciting times any engineering or computer science student will ever experience. Besides controlling the robot for the few brief minutes of actual gameplay, students and engineers repair their robot in the Pit, scope out their competition and potential allies, and support the team from the stands. No two robots are the same; some do one part of the game better, others are good all-around. Each team's robot has a different way of getting the job done, despite the fact that each team received the same materials from the Kickoff.
The competition is fierce. There are stellar victories and crushing defeats. However, the fun and friendliness between opponents is (in most cases) preserved.
This is only a short and rather poor description of FIRST. To get a more whole picture, talk with students and engineers who have participated/are participating in FIRST. There's a very good chance that there's a team at a high school near you!
Now, addressing some of those whose experiences and opinions are not similar to mine (the arguments):
Concerning DeadBugs' "What They Really Learn"
I am sorry to learn that this is how your team works. Your team is missing the point of FIRST by miles. The idea behind FIRST is that the students do most of the designing and creation, and the engineers help and guide them. Some robots in the competition are 75% or more student-built. And yes, these robots can do very well (3rd place nationals). IMHO, your team needs evaluate itself in light of the ideas and purposes of FIRST, and get on the right track.
Concerning cwhittenburg's "Learn more from Junkyard Wars"
First, the teams are most definitely not provided with all the parts they need. Far from it. Teams must purchase much of the items and supplies that are used to construct the robot. The team can also pick and choose which items from the supplied kit they will use on their robot. One of the kit's major purposes is to ensure that robots are not too dissimilar. With the items that are supplied to the teams, the team has several different types of each basic item from which to choose. Continuing with your analogy, this is similar to being provided with several different engines, several different transmissions, several different wheels, etc. It's up to the team to get all these to work together. Also, some items can be significantly modified and customized.
Second, some robots are, very unfortunately, designed, constructed, and programmed mostly by the professional engineers on a team instead of the students. This is contrary to the ideas and purposes behind FIRST. (See above response to "What They Really Learn")
That's my perspective, as a former FIRST Team member and a current senior in high school. The only reason I'm not involved now is the fact that I don't have enough free time to devote myself to extracurricular activities. I'd jump without hesitation at the chance to become involved again.
--LightForce3
Comments/Replies appreciated
But why does everyone think media hyped robot vs. robot competitions were the start of things? MIT for years put students against students building robots from the same set of materials for the battle arena of who can collect the most ping-pong balls. This competition was great, it was not only interesting, but the behind the scences views of the creators working on their robot setups, and the insight into strategy* was also interesting. The modern day over hyped, cartoonized naming, and street fighter-esq "battles" are so crappy compared to the good MIT battles. Anyone remember when the top builders from MIT went to China to work in teams of two (one MIT'er one Chinese) to get around a language barrior to develop robots?
* - there seemed to be two prevailing strategies: one was to put as many ping-pong balls into your base/hole/area/whatever the other was to put just a few (sometimes just one) and then block your opponents ability to put any (or few) into their base/hold/area/whatever.
Wheeeee
I just got back from my team's (365) kickoff at the Dupont explorer post in Wilmington, DE. This game looks like a combination of the 2000 and the 2001 game. GO MOE!!
I'm not sure yet what i think about this year's game. I'm glad it's not happy-friendly coop again, but the game seems uninspired and aimed more towards simple mass entertainment. I guess Disney is going to be putting together a movie about it for broadcast, so maybe it will be better publiced.
Speaking as a member of last years co-champions (team 125 w00t!), I've found the program very inviting scalable according to interest. It gets a little boged down by all the philosophy Dean and Woodie spiel out in thier speaches/lectures, but then again he might have a point. I love the retro dance music at competitions too.
You can't realy get an idea about what the competitions are like without being there, and i'd advise all you hardware geeks out there to drop by at any local competitions and check it out.
I am the captain of FIRST Team 98, Dallas, TX.
We will not be able to compete this year.
You see, we are one of the few teams without any form of engineering support from a large corporation. All we have is some donated framing. We have been able to survive until this year, because the requirements for registration were just to sign up. Now there is a 'point' system to even get on a waiting list. It is almost impossible to get in if you don't WIN a regional match. That means you must enter many, many regionals to have a good shot at nationals.
These registrations cost a very large amount of money. In the past, registration for nationals was $6,000, and regionals were about the same. To have a fair shot of getting in, I have calculated that my team must spend at least $15-20k in registrations alone. The robot would cost another $4,000, far exceeding my school's $12,000 budget for the team.
I'm sure we could find a NASA, United Tech, or Delphi sponsor for engineering, but then we would no longer do most of the work. We decided that the best way to go was sponsor-less, in the hopes that we would recieve experience in building the thing, as we did last year. It was a great learning experience, and great fun too.
We now must decide what to do. Sell out, or close shop. Rest in peace, US FIRST.
-twb
Professor Alexander Slocum currently teaches it, Prof. Woody Flowers taught it previously.
The finals are generally carried on PBS.
Prof. Woodie Flowers is also the co-founder of FIRST. Think there's a connection? :)
My three years of experience have been in the comp. anim. team, experimenting with modeling, animation, and texturing & lighting. The competition gives students a chance to get their hands on top quality modeling/animation software ("educational" version, and full if you win; I dunno what the difference is) legitamitely. That is, of course, in addition to team ethic, a trip to Orlando with a Disney inter-park pass, and so on, which I picked up from my time in it as well.
i thought the dude was going to say where i could get a free realone with giving them my credit car #
A similar program that my high school participated in can be found here: http://www.bestinc.org/
Similar rules seem to apply.
I was in FIRST a couple of years ago. My school wound up in about the middle of the pack in the Michigan state finals in Pontiac. The winning team had a brilliant design for manipulating the playground balls that are central to the game.
If anyone out there is planning on competing, DON'T USE A CLAW DESIGN. It's not reliable, and it's quite slow, as well. Instead, go with the simpler and much more effective "loop" design. Build two metal circles just a bit wider than the ball's diameter and cover them with the red, grippy textured rubber that comes in the construction kits. Then, mount the two circles an inch or two apart at the end of your manipulation arm, and put a pneumatic pump inside the arm with some more of the grip material at the end of the piston. To move balls, just get the loops over the ball, then activate the pump to lock it in place. This will work much better than a claw which, despite looking really cool, will very frequently drop the ball when jarred.
Anonymous Luddite: "What do you think of the dehumanizing effects of the Internet?"
Andy Grove: "Not Much."
While you're mostly correct that 2.70/2.007 started it all, theres an important step you left out.
2.70 is from the Mechanical Engineering Dept,
with the emphasis on Mechanical Design.
The Comp.Sci/Electrical Eng. department picked up on the idea and created a class called "6.270".
They also created the Handyboard and Interactive C. The emphasis is a balance between mechanical systems, electrical sensors, and programming autonomous interactive systesm.
The 6.270 equipment later formed the foundation of Lego Mindstorms.
(P.S. When I write that a "department" created something, it should be noted that it was really the outstanding contributions of several truly dedicated and talented individuals. Unfortunately, I don't remember all their names anymore... but I'm thankful for their effort anyway. I still have my hand-assembled Handyboard, and work with it regularly)
The US Postal Service will do a much better job of destroying your equipment, at a lower cost.