Okay, but what if a random company took your code, added it to their own, and released the whole lot as a commercial product under a proprietary license, without giving you any more credit than the BSD license specifically requires?
You bring up a valid point, of course.
Let me try to clarify what I mean:
Yes, I am very much aware programmers need to get paid.
No, I am not a rich guy.
No, I am not a communist.;)
Yes, I realize proprietary software is not "evil." I run some proprietary software myself. I believe in the open source model, and I believe in the commercial successes that have been built around that model.
However, what I don't like is this:
A linux distro is created, full of software contributed to the community, free and libre.
A few lines of proprietary code are added to this distro, and suddenly redistribution of the distribution itself is illegal as it will violate the license of the proprietary code.
I see very much the value of having this software bundled with linux. Aunt Tillie isn't going to go and look for a CSS decryption library when she learns it is of dubious legality. And she'll want to view all the multimedia stuff a windows user can, without stress.
Perhaps a better solution would be to have a "GPL-only" version available, and then a "+proprietary" version as well.
I certainly don't _expect_ a business venture to give away a ton of code without the expectation that they will receive a monetary return.
~psi42
----------- ""Turbolinux 10 F..." will be available for purchase in Japan on May 28, 2004 and is priced at $149 per copy. Customers upgrading from the previous version of Turbolinux Desktop can purchase 10F for $64. Customers outside Japan can purchase "Turbolinux 10 F..." starting June 30, 2004." -----------
So, for $149, one gets:
* Legal DVD Playback So... the extra price in this case is to maintain legality with a piece of legislation (the DMCA), which, in the context of libdvdcss, does not make a significant appeal to the common sense politicians are so well known to lack. For an extra price, you can comply with the DMCA. Linux already has everything you need to play DVDs, except this one piece of legality, which is bound to cost more than all the rest combined.
* Legal WMA Playback First of all, who uses WMA anyway? We all know ogg is THE format for audio, and if not that, mp3. As for video, there are far better (cheaper) routes to go.
* Realplayer Hmm... realplayer for linux is a free (not libre) download...
Flash support Oh yeah, this is worth a piece of the price all right..... Unless they got the code from Macromedia and fixed all the problems, this is worth nothing.
And for this little insertion of proprietary code, I suppose redistribution is going to be illegal, despite the 99.9% prevalence of (superior) GPL'd code this distro is sure to have.
This makes our TCO look _really_ bad.....
Don't get me wrong here, I don't have anything against selling Linux, or support for Linux, for money. But this kind of thing is something that should be marketed as an add-on for any linux distro, not as part of a distro that will be rendered illegal for distribution due to this proprietary code.:)
Maybe if MS manages to generate enough panic with its exponentially growing number of remote security exploits, it can get some support for mad Palladium.
Let's say you have downloaded and installed some 20 programs packaged as Appdirs. If each package is supposed to be virtually self-contained across all distros, you're going to have to include _all_ dependencies. And therefore you lose all advantages of having shared libraries. You've got 20 copies of libc, 10 copies of gtk, 15 copies of X runtimes, and so on?
So MS is flooding government and defense agencies with thousands of Office CDS, in the hope that someone will pick up their spam, install it, and pay for upgrades in the next two years.
Looks like desperation is starting to take hold. They feel they need to stem the flow of Free linux to the world by replanting the seeds of subtle vendor lock-in.
Wonder if anyone will fall for it?
They are not trying to "give customers a taste of the software and allow them to learn how it might be of use to their organizations in a positive way." They are trying to flood the government AOL-style with as many discs as possible.
It's the old spammer profit rule--if one in a hundred use the disc, then you've just made money...
And once MS Office is in, it will take a long time to weed it out.
For the REAL space station experience, the thing has to be inside a sealed airless low-pressure vacuum chamber, and have holes poked in it. Then we can simulate the composure necessary to become an astronaut
Well, what can you expect. EB games has the money, EB games has the lawyers. If someone wants their $400 worth of games back, they can go pay a lot more in legal fees to get the lawyers with they money they don't have.
It's this "and what are you going to do about it" attitude that has put big business above ethics. Go figure.
When I was in Radio Shack a few months ago, I saw a sign posted that looked somewhat like this:
WARNING
Certain components sold
in this store, such as portable
CD players, contain lead, which can cause
cancer. You should wash your hands thorougly after
touching these materials.
Of course, it was a lot more formal than that (I don't exactly possess a degree in Lawyer Talk), but that was basically the gist of it.
Now, it's kind of hard to take an article like this seriously when stuff like this is being posted. How much risk, exactly, is there in getting lead poisoning from a portable CD player?
With a Linux distro bundled with hardware, buyers of said hardware do not need to go on their own initiative to download and install linux. It is right at their fingertips, bundled with their new barebone. They've just bought a Penguin Powered system, and chances are they will try linux out and not just delete it...... And then they will see the light.....
And this is where Linux on the Desktop really starts to expand......
Some might believe MS has incorporated GPL'd code into windows.
However, in order to ascertain whether or not this is the case, and to provide proof, one would have to grep through the windows source. However, one cannot do that without violating MS's proprietary license. One cannot learn if MS is using GPL'd code without first subjecting oneself to a flurry of lawsuits...
But of course MS/SCO can look at GPL'd code whenever they want, and scream "They Stoled Our Source Codes" at the top of their lungs.....................
Maybe it will be ad powered? You know, ads in little bubble from the taskbar, ads on the desktop, ads in IE, ads on the BSOD, little button "reboot for more ads," "My Ads," C:\Ads, "Special Offers" desktop shortcut, Start-->Ads, "My Recent Ads," 100 page privacy policy (with ads). Nice bright flashy ads that move with the mouse pointer.
I find a lot of potential new users choke on the "absolutely no warranty" thing, as if that means the knoppix disc is going to make their computer burst into flames without warning(you need a propane disc for that).
Apparently they think the microsoft "we will give you an identical copy of windows should your windows fail in 90 days" statement is just so much more reassuring.
"They're just gonna kill that poor little comet. For nothing. Just like that."
They're not just going to kill it! They're going to study it, torture it, bombard it with microwaves, dig holes in it, and "make an on-the-spot analysis of the composition and structure of the comet's surface and subsurface material" while it's still alive!
Now the question is, who do we call about this?
All this hinges on the testers having an _original_ copy of the image in addition to the supposedly modified version.
Let's say someone tries to use a doctored digital photo as evidence. They eliminate the original md5 with the aforementioned screenshot trick, and then recreate it. The photo is contested on the grounds it is a fake. To prove it, they go off and get their wonderous DVK-E2 kit, and then they get their md5. The test works just fine, so they know the md5 has been altered, so they go and ask for the original image. And so where is the original image? Do they have it? No, of course not, because it went on a little stroll down memory lane and landed without a sound in the fastness of/dev/null
Slashdot Mirror
Okay, but what if a random company took your code, added it to their own, and released the whole lot as a commercial product under a proprietary license, without giving you any more credit than the BSD license specifically requires?
You bring up a valid point, of course. Let me try to clarify what I mean: Yes, I am very much aware programmers need to get paid. No, I am not a rich guy. No, I am not a communist. ;)
Yes, I realize proprietary software is not "evil." I run some proprietary software myself. I believe in the open source model, and I believe in the commercial successes that have been built around that model.
However, what I don't like is this:
A linux distro is created, full of software contributed to the community, free and libre.
A few lines of proprietary code are added to this distro, and suddenly redistribution of the distribution itself is illegal as it will violate the license of the proprietary code.
I see very much the value of having this software bundled with linux. Aunt Tillie isn't going to go and look for a CSS decryption library when she learns it is of dubious legality. And she'll want to view all the multimedia stuff a windows user can, without stress.
Perhaps a better solution would be to have a "GPL-only" version available, and then a "+proprietary" version as well.
I certainly don't _expect_ a business venture to give away a ton of code without the expectation that they will receive a monetary return.
~psi42
-----------
:)
""Turbolinux 10 F..." will be available for purchase in Japan on May 28, 2004 and is priced at $149 per copy. Customers upgrading from the previous version of Turbolinux Desktop can purchase 10F for $64. Customers outside Japan can purchase "Turbolinux 10 F..." starting June 30, 2004."
-----------
So, for $149, one gets:
* Legal DVD Playback
So... the extra price in this case is to maintain legality with a piece of legislation (the DMCA), which, in the context of libdvdcss, does not make a significant appeal to the common sense politicians are so well known to lack. For an extra price, you can comply with the DMCA. Linux already has everything you need to play DVDs, except this one piece of legality, which is bound to cost more than all the rest combined.
* Legal WMA Playback
First of all, who uses WMA anyway? We all know ogg is THE format for audio, and if not that, mp3. As for video, there are far better (cheaper) routes to go.
* Realplayer
Hmm... realplayer for linux is a free (not libre) download...
Flash support
Oh yeah, this is worth a piece of the price all right.....
Unless they got the code from Macromedia and fixed all the problems, this is worth nothing.
And for this little insertion of proprietary code, I suppose redistribution is going to be illegal, despite the 99.9% prevalence of (superior) GPL'd code this distro is sure to have.
This makes our TCO look _really_ bad.....
Don't get me wrong here, I don't have anything against selling Linux, or support for Linux, for money. But this kind of thing is something that should be marketed as an add-on for any linux distro, not as part of a distro that will be rendered illegal for distribution due to this proprietary code.
*MPAA, not RIAA Good lord they are so easy to mix up, aren't they? Have you ever seen them both in the same room? Wait a minute..........
Someone go get a few of those middle schoolers to bring up DeCSS.
That will "encourage student debate" for sure.
How many people will even listen to the RIAA when they learn the simply illogical arguments behind the DMCA?
Come on. Everyone knows the hat's gotta be plated with lead and ceramite for it to be of any use... :)
Maybe if MS manages to generate enough panic with its exponentially growing number of remote security exploits, it can get some support for mad Palladium.
I wouldn't be at all suprised.
Let's say you have downloaded and installed some 20 programs packaged as Appdirs. If each package is supposed to be virtually self-contained across all distros, you're going to have to include _all_ dependencies. And therefore you lose all advantages of having shared libraries. You've got 20 copies of libc, 10 copies of gtk, 15 copies of X runtimes, and so on?
How big is each appdir?
So MS is flooding government and defense agencies with thousands of Office CDS, in the hope that someone will pick up their spam, install it, and pay for upgrades in the next two years.
Looks like desperation is starting to take hold. They feel they need to stem the flow of Free linux to the world by replanting the seeds of subtle vendor lock-in.
Wonder if anyone will fall for it?
They are not trying to "give customers a taste of the software and allow them to learn how it might be of use to their organizations in a positive way." They are trying to flood the government AOL-style with as many discs as possible.
It's the old spammer profit rule--if one in a hundred use the disc, then you've just made money...
And once MS Office is in, it will take a long time to weed it out.
~psi42
"And why does domain registration information for S2.com give the obviously false phone number 123-456-7890"
:)
:)
Indeed, why? I would think even SCO would be smart enough not to make an under-the-counter relationship with MS so blisteringly obvious.
IMHO, this means either of two things:
a) There is no under-the-counter conspiracy
b) SCO is smoking even more crack than we previously thought
I hate SCO as much as the next guy, but I would think that multi-billion dollar corporations would do a little better job covering their tracks.
Or perhaps not.
~psi42
For the REAL space station experience, the thing has to be inside a sealed airless low-pressure vacuum chamber, and have holes poked in it. Then we can simulate the composure necessary to become an astronaut
Well, what can you expect. EB games has the money, EB games has the lawyers. If someone wants their $400 worth of games back, they can go pay a lot more in legal fees to get the lawyers with they money they don't have.
It's this "and what are you going to do about it" attitude that has put big business above ethics. Go figure.
When I was in Radio Shack a few months ago, I saw a sign posted that looked somewhat like this:
WARNING
Certain components sold
in this store, such as portable
CD players, contain lead, which can cause
cancer. You should wash your hands thorougly after
touching these materials.
Of course, it was a lot more formal than that (I don't exactly possess a degree in Lawyer Talk), but that was basically the gist of it.
Now, it's kind of hard to take an article like this seriously when stuff like this is being posted. How much risk, exactly, is there in getting lead poisoning from a portable CD player?
This is where things start to pick up...
With a Linux distro bundled with hardware, buyers of said hardware do not need to go on their own initiative to download and install linux. It is right at their fingertips, bundled with their new barebone. They've just bought a Penguin Powered system, and chances are they will try linux out and not just delete it...... And then they will see the light.....
And this is where Linux on the Desktop really starts to expand......
Let it begin.
Looks like now we've got a little issue here:
Some might believe MS has incorporated GPL'd code into windows.
However, in order to ascertain whether or not this is the case, and to provide proof, one would have to grep through the windows source. However, one cannot do that without violating MS's proprietary license. One cannot learn if MS is using GPL'd code without first subjecting oneself to a flurry of lawsuits...
But of course MS/SCO can look at GPL'd code whenever they want, and scream "They Stoled Our Source Codes" at the top of their lungs.....................
Maybe it will be ad powered? You know, ads in little bubble from the taskbar, ads on the desktop, ads in IE, ads on the BSOD, little button "reboot for more ads," "My Ads," C:\Ads, "Special Offers" desktop shortcut, Start-->Ads, "My Recent Ads," 100 page privacy policy (with ads). Nice bright flashy ads that move with the mouse pointer.
I need a pentium IV to run Commander Keen in dosbox.
Absolutely amazing.
I find a lot of potential new users choke on the "absolutely no warranty" thing, as if that means the knoppix disc is going to make their computer burst into flames without warning(you need a propane disc for that).
Apparently they think the microsoft "we will give you an identical copy of windows should your windows fail in 90 days" statement is just so much more reassuring.
"They're just gonna kill that poor little comet. For nothing. Just like that."
They're not just going to kill it! They're going to study it, torture it, bombard it with microwaves, dig holes in it, and "make an on-the-spot analysis of the composition and structure of the comet's surface and subsurface material" while it's still alive! Now the question is, who do we call about this?
All this hinges on the testers having an _original_ copy of the image in addition to the supposedly modified version.
/dev/null
Let's say someone tries to use a doctored digital photo as evidence. They eliminate the original md5 with the aforementioned screenshot trick, and then recreate it. The photo is contested on the grounds it is a fake. To prove it, they go off and get their wonderous DVK-E2 kit, and then they get their md5. The test works just fine, so they know the md5 has been altered, so they go and ask for the original image. And so where is the original image? Do they have it? No, of course not, because it went on a little stroll down memory lane and landed without a sound in the fastness of
Have we accomplished anything here?
"Half of the real question about the quality of a desktop environment is how well it works for someone who has never used a computer before."
Then all of them would score at best 50%