It seems to me that assumptions will need to be broken down in order for religion to make more sense anyway. For example, how many wise men were there? If you automatically said three, then you need to do some critical analysis. There were three gifts, but one person could have brought two of them. Likewise, two people could have brought gold. Make a list of all the things you think you know about Christ's birth, and then try to prove them in the Bible. You'll find a lot of speculation and tradition.
Religion can make a lot of sense. I cannot find any valid reason at the moment why life could not have been created (or even evolved) on other planets.
(note to Christians: read the Bible. For most of you, all your pastor knows is what he/she was taught about other people's opinions on the Bible. You CAN make your own decisions with sufficient study and wisdom.)
(assuming you're talking about evolution vs. creation)
Creationists who think rationally would understand that human life DID come from one place (Garden of Eden, or more recently Noah's Ark). It's just a matter of how people came into existence in the first place that's disputed. (I'm not trying to create a flamefest thread, so please don't)
Better than yours. I'll take that quote into consideration though. But I think you know what I'm talking about when it comes to "Anti-Mormon" literature. Most of it really is pure troll, though some valid concerns exist. I'm not talking Sunday school manual comparison, either, but what I've learned studying the Standard Works ('Mormon' scriptures including the Bible).
Apparently you do. But in that case you are willfully ignoring some of the most basic teachings of the church. God is just, and doesn't expect temple ordinances to be performed by those who he doesn't give that ability. Most churches teach that those who die without accepting Christ are damned, even those who never hear the name. Others teach that unbaptized infants are damned because their parents made a mistake.
You know, as do I, that it is church doctrine, and always has been, that those denied the blessings of the Temple and who are as righteous and worthy as anyone else WILL receive exaltation (Celestial kingdom, highest degree). That includes those who were not allowed to enter the temple of no fault of their own. Yes, they need those ordinances. But they have a right to them that will be honored postmortem (This is also fair, but another discussion, not racial). You knew that too. Or at least you really should have at some point.
An objective view sounds like a good idea. That was actually what he was suggesting, though it didn't exactly sound like it. There is so much junk literature written on the Church that he (I'm guessing) and I would suggest that people look at both sides of the story. It sounds like you've at least heard some details, which is more than almost anyone who mocks Utah because of polygamy.
(Comment to parent )By the way, which comments are you referring to. I have heard at least one comment that Brigham made when young that he later retracted (shortly after becoming church president). Many in the church who delight in actually learning what the church teaches take some of McConkie's comments with a grain of salt (I don't think that book is still in print either, but I could be wrong). I would still like to know what your referring to though (unless you just dug it out of some one sided bashing book, but you sound more intelligent than that).
Yes, you've done some research, or more likely read some one sided material.
The church was actually very kind to blacks, and has always been against slavery (One of the reason the church was kicked out of Missouri, look that up if you want to read about discrimination). If you want to look at if from an ethnocentric point of view, it just took the Church longer than other less tolerant churches.
Yes, the "Book of Mormon" does teach that the darker skin was a marking given to their ancestors for wickedness, but also holds many wonderful promises for them. They are doctrinally unresponsible for that SPECIFIC wickedness. They haven't been discriminated against. In fact, the Church took a LOT of flak for trying to proselytize them. They have always been a valuable part of doctrine and culture.
You may have your opinion, but please try to understand all angles first. And voice it as an opinion, not as absolute truth.
"Mormon" is a nick name for members of "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints." Those found to be practiceing plural marrige are excommunicated. I've heard them called mormon fundamentalist, but I don't see anything fundamental about how they practice. This is true, not only in spite of history, but particularly in veiw of it.
While he doesn't say it outright, this response gives the impression that the "14 to 25 . . . guys might not be the most-qualified people to do code review"
While development goes on in other places as well, it is centered in the OSDL, paid for by small companies that no one in the business world would recognize (such as IBM, Intel, and HP, to name a few). Do you think their money is going to anyone but the most qualified.
Again, he didn't actually say it, but it's still a lie.
Isaac Asimov is certainly best known for his work as a science fiction writer. What most people don't know is that he also knew and enjoyed science. I don't have the understanding to discuss many of the theories that I have read here being debated, but I think something Isaac said once bears repeating. From his scientific work "The Neutrino", let me paraphrase:
If you take a red ball, and throw it up in the air, you will observe it come back down. You can repeat the experiment with the same results. You can use a different red ball. Eventually you may adopt the theory that red balls when thrown up must come back down. You may eventually expand that theory to include blue balls, and then green balls, and then any ball. That would lead to further experimentation and the conclusion that "what goes up, must come down."
Later on though, you may let go of the helium balloon that you were holding. Helium balloons do come back down once they've gone flat, but you may need to modify your theory to say "what goes up, must come down, but not necessarily right away." Airplanes do this too. But what if something reaches escape velocity.
"What goes up, must come down, but not necessarily right away, and only if it doesn't reach escape velocity."
As our knowledge and data base grows, our theories expand or get thrown out in favor of something that better fits our observations. But they are just that: our observations. If a model doesn't fit an observation, don't blame the model, or the observation, or the scientist. Such will only be modified again as our understanding grows.
What is DRM all about? It's not about charging a fee for a copy of a song. We've had that in the form of CD's for a while now. It is about the Right to use the copyrighted material. They could well let you buy these blocks of ones and zeros at cost, but not let you listen to them until you had paid your DRM license.
While were on the subject, does anyone know how much SCO charges for a Unixware license? That could be interesting, for example:
Suppose they charged $699 for both the Linux license and Unixware, but only claimed 20% of a given distribution (I don't know what the percent would be, probably much lower). That would constitute putting a price on their IP. Meaning that they were charging.2 * 699 for their IP and.8 * 699 for someone else's code.
What's the difference between international and interstate. One is between nations and the other is between states. The confusion here probably started because people think the internet and world wide web are the same thing.
The process has not only started, but is in full swing. What percentage of major sites have you been to lately that haven't used either pop-ups, flash, moving pictures, etc. to catch your eye. Good advertising banners and methods exist, but are having trouble competing.
I'm sorry if my answer was a little cryptic, but I didn't feel like getting into the details at the time. I was also a little timid at being rebuked for giving an answer that _requires_ faith in order to accept. I would point out again that all serious Christians have a particular amount of faith in certain ancient and holy artifacts. If they did not exist, then the Bible is false. Yet, we have no way to prove that they existed either.
Here in America, in a country founded upon religious freedom, things have not always been free. Once Joseph had received a vision of God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ he proceeded to share this marvelous account with others. He was only fourteen at the time, and was understandably shocked at the level of religious bigotry surrounding him at the time. It was only several years later that he was allowed to take the plates and begin a miraculous translation.
"I soon found, however, that my telling the story had excited a great deal of prejudice against me among professors of religion, and was the cause of great persecution, which continued to increase; and though I was an obscure boy, only between fourteen and fifteen years of age, and my circumstances in life such as to make a boy of no consequence in the world, yet men of high standing would take notice sufficient to excite the public mind against me, and create a bitter persecution; and this was common among all the sects--all united to persecute me."...
"However, it was nevertheless a fact that I had beheld a vision. I have thought since, that I felt much like Paul, when he made his defense before King Agrippa, and related the account of the vision he had when he saw a light, and heard a voice; but still there were but few who believed him; some said he was dishonest, others said he was mad; and he was ridiculed and reviled. But all this did not destroy the reality of his vision. He had seen a vision, he knew he had, and all the persecution under heaven could not make it otherwise; and though they should persecute him unto death, yet he knew, and would know to his latest breath, that he had both seen a light and heard a voice speaking unto him, and all the world could not make him think or believe otherwise."
During that time, very few people believed that he could have seen the Lord; not because it wasn't possible, but because it went against what they had always been taught. At the same time, though, he and his family were subject to not only violence, but individuals trying to steal the plates. After translation of the portion that we have was completed, the plates were given into the care of an angel (Moroni). We look forward to the day when the remainder of the plates will be translated and published.
If Joseph had kept the plates, he would have been unable in the long run to protect them. As an example, there were some other papyri partially translated by the prophet which are now included in the "Pearl of Great Price". These were lost when he was martyred, and were taken by some of his family members who apostatized. They were presumed to have been lost in a fire in Chicago not long after, though a few fragments have been found.
More information can be found in the "Book of Mormon" itself at:
http://scriptures.lds.org/bm/contents
The Introduction and Testimonies would be a good place to look.
A longer account can be found at:
http://scriptures.lds.org/js_h/1
This is Josephs account the way he told it himself.
Where is the ark of the covenant or a miriad of other biblical artifacts. Where are ANY original writeings of the biblical authors (yes, there are early copies, but no originals). These are either destroyed, missing, or protected by the Lord.
The plates fall into that last catigory. They would have been destroyed by angry and corrupt men otherwise.
I don't know enough about imbedded systems to know exactly what's going on in there, but the Cassiopeia (pocket pc 2000) that my brother gave me for Christmas froze on me twice. After pokeing the "reset" button on the back it "rebooted" or something equivalent. All my files in RAM were still there, but my programs were shut down. If this is the hardware below the kernal, I don't think there's much of a problem.
Slashdot Mirror
Not everyone hold much faith in the post-apostolic era.
It seems to me that assumptions will need to be broken down in order for religion to make more sense anyway. For example, how many wise men were there? If you automatically said three, then you need to do some critical analysis. There were three gifts, but one person could have brought two of them. Likewise, two people could have brought gold. Make a list of all the things you think you know about Christ's birth, and then try to prove them in the Bible. You'll find a lot of speculation and tradition.
Religion can make a lot of sense. I cannot find any valid reason at the moment why life could not have been created (or even evolved) on other planets.
(note to Christians: read the Bible. For most of you, all your pastor knows is what he/she was taught about other people's opinions on the Bible. You CAN make your own decisions with sufficient study and wisdom.)
(assuming you're talking about evolution vs. creation)
Creationists who think rationally would understand that human life DID come from one place (Garden of Eden, or more recently Noah's Ark). It's just a matter of how people came into existence in the first place that's disputed. (I'm not trying to create a flamefest thread, so please don't)
correction to the end of that:
It is going too far to assume that a sin is involved.
I am not willfully spinning the issues and you know it. Please get through your bitterness and be civil.
Better than yours. I'll take that quote into consideration though. But I think you know what I'm talking about when it comes to "Anti-Mormon" literature. Most of it really is pure troll, though some valid concerns exist. I'm not talking Sunday school manual comparison, either, but what I've learned studying the Standard Works ('Mormon' scriptures including the Bible).
Apparently you do. But in that case you are willfully ignoring some of the most basic teachings of the church. God is just, and doesn't expect temple ordinances to be performed by those who he doesn't give that ability. Most churches teach that those who die without accepting Christ are damned, even those who never hear the name. Others teach that unbaptized infants are damned because their parents made a mistake.
You know, as do I, that it is church doctrine, and always has been, that those denied the blessings of the Temple and who are as righteous and worthy as anyone else WILL receive exaltation (Celestial kingdom, highest degree). That includes those who were not allowed to enter the temple of no fault of their own. Yes, they need those ordinances. But they have a right to them that will be honored postmortem (This is also fair, but another discussion, not racial). You knew that too. Or at least you really should have at some point.
An objective view sounds like a good idea. That was actually what he was suggesting, though it didn't exactly sound like it. There is so much junk literature written on the Church that he (I'm guessing) and I would suggest that people look at both sides of the story. It sounds like you've at least heard some details, which is more than almost anyone who mocks Utah because of polygamy. (Comment to parent )By the way, which comments are you referring to. I have heard at least one comment that Brigham made when young that he later retracted (shortly after becoming church president). Many in the church who delight in actually learning what the church teaches take some of McConkie's comments with a grain of salt (I don't think that book is still in print either, but I could be wrong). I would still like to know what your referring to though (unless you just dug it out of some one sided bashing book, but you sound more intelligent than that).
I meant to change my header before I submitted. I hope that didn't offend you.
Yes, you've done some research, or more likely read some one sided material.
The church was actually very kind to blacks, and has always been against slavery (One of the reason the church was kicked out of Missouri, look that up if you want to read about discrimination). If you want to look at if from an ethnocentric point of view, it just took the Church longer than other less tolerant churches.
Yes, the "Book of Mormon" does teach that the darker skin was a marking given to their ancestors for wickedness, but also holds many wonderful promises for them. They are doctrinally unresponsible for that SPECIFIC wickedness. They haven't been discriminated against. In fact, the Church took a LOT of flak for trying to proselytize them. They have always been a valuable part of doctrine and culture.
You may have your opinion, but please try to understand all angles first. And voice it as an opinion, not as absolute truth.
For your information.
"Mormon" is a nick name for members of "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints." Those found to be practiceing plural marrige are excommunicated. I've heard them called mormon fundamentalist, but I don't see anything fundamental about how they practice. This is true, not only in spite of history, but particularly in veiw of it.
And yes, such do exist in Utah.
While he doesn't say it outright, this response gives the impression that the "14 to 25 . . . guys might not be the most-qualified people to do code review"
While development goes on in other places as well, it is centered in the OSDL, paid for by small companies that no one in the business world would recognize (such as IBM, Intel, and HP, to name a few). Do you think their money is going to anyone but the most qualified.
Again, he didn't actually say it, but it's still a lie.
Isaac Asimov is certainly best known for his work as a science fiction writer. What most people don't know is that he also knew and enjoyed science. I don't have the understanding to discuss many of the theories that I have read here being debated, but I think something Isaac said once bears repeating. From his scientific work "The Neutrino", let me paraphrase:
If you take a red ball, and throw it up in the air, you will observe it come back down. You can repeat the experiment with the same results. You can use a different red ball. Eventually you may adopt the theory that red balls when thrown up must come back down. You may eventually expand that theory to include blue balls, and then green balls, and then any ball. That would lead to further experimentation and the conclusion that "what goes up, must come down."
Later on though, you may let go of the helium balloon that you were holding. Helium balloons do come back down once they've gone flat, but you may need to modify your theory to say "what goes up, must come down, but not necessarily right away." Airplanes do this too. But what if something reaches escape velocity.
"What goes up, must come down, but not necessarily right away, and only if it doesn't reach escape velocity."
As our knowledge and data base grows, our theories expand or get thrown out in favor of something that better fits our observations. But they are just that: our observations. If a model doesn't fit an observation, don't blame the model, or the observation, or the scientist. Such will only be modified again as our understanding grows.
Mod parent insightful. Funny no longer provides karma.
Definitly applies in part to MS's operations.
What is DRM all about? It's not about charging a fee for a copy of a song. We've had that in the form of CD's for a while now. It is about the Right to use the copyrighted material. They could well let you buy these blocks of ones and zeros at cost, but not let you listen to them until you had paid your DRM license.
While were on the subject, does anyone know how much SCO charges for a Unixware license? That could be interesting, for example:
.2 * 699 for their IP and .8 * 699 for someone else's code.
Suppose they charged $699 for both the Linux license and Unixware, but only claimed 20% of a given distribution (I don't know what the percent would be, probably much lower). That would constitute putting a price on their IP. Meaning that they were charging
Any other thoughts?
What's the difference between international and interstate. One is between nations and the other is between states. The confusion here probably started because people think the internet and world wide web are the same thing.
The process has not only started, but is in full swing. What percentage of major sites have you been to lately that haven't used either pop-ups, flash, moving pictures, etc. to catch your eye. Good advertising banners and methods exist, but are having trouble competing.
"Wallin added that his company has had settlement talks with all five of the vendors it has sued, but he wouldn't comment on specifics."
I like this quote too, let me paraphrase: [We went and harassed them, but they wouldn't pay up, so now we'll try to bully them in court!]
I'm sorry if my answer was a little cryptic, but I didn't feel like getting into the details at the time. I was also a little timid at being rebuked for giving an answer that _requires_ faith in order to accept. I would point out again that all serious Christians have a particular amount of faith in certain ancient and holy artifacts. If they did not exist, then the Bible is false. Yet, we have no way to prove that they existed either.
Here in America, in a country founded upon religious freedom, things have not always been free. Once Joseph had received a vision of God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ he proceeded to share this marvelous account with others. He was only fourteen at the time, and was understandably shocked at the level of religious bigotry surrounding him at the time. It was only several years later that he was allowed to take the plates and begin a miraculous translation.
"I soon found, however, that my telling the story had excited a great deal of prejudice against me among professors of religion, and was the cause of great persecution, which continued to increase; and though I was an obscure boy, only between fourteen and fifteen years of age, and my circumstances in life such as to make a boy of no consequence in the world, yet men of high standing would take notice sufficient to excite the public mind against me, and create a bitter persecution; and this was common among all the sects--all united to persecute me."...
"However, it was nevertheless a fact that I had beheld a vision. I have thought since, that I felt much like Paul, when he made his defense before King Agrippa, and related the account of the vision he had when he saw a light, and heard a voice; but still there were but few who believed him; some said he was dishonest, others said he was mad; and he was ridiculed and reviled. But all this did not destroy the reality of his vision. He had seen a vision, he knew he had, and all the persecution under heaven could not make it otherwise; and though they should persecute him unto death, yet he knew, and would know to his latest breath, that he had both seen a light and heard a voice speaking unto him, and all the world could not make him think or believe otherwise."
During that time, very few people believed that he could have seen the Lord; not because it wasn't possible, but because it went against what they had always been taught. At the same time, though, he and his family were subject to not only violence, but individuals trying to steal the plates. After translation of the portion that we have was completed, the plates were given into the care of an angel (Moroni). We look forward to the day when the remainder of the plates will be translated and published.
If Joseph had kept the plates, he would have been unable in the long run to protect them. As an example, there were some other papyri partially translated by the prophet which are now included in the "Pearl of Great Price". These were lost when he was martyred, and were taken by some of his family members who apostatized. They were presumed to have been lost in a fire in Chicago not long after, though a few fragments have been found.
More information can be found in the "Book of Mormon" itself at:
http://scriptures.lds.org/bm/contents
The Introduction and Testimonies would be a good place to look.
A longer account can be found at:
http://scriptures.lds.org/js_h/1
This is Josephs account the way he told it himself.
Where is the ark of the covenant or a miriad of other biblical artifacts. Where are ANY original writeings of the biblical authors (yes, there are early copies, but no originals). These are either destroyed, missing, or protected by the Lord. The plates fall into that last catigory. They would have been destroyed by angry and corrupt men otherwise.
I wonder if we will slashdot their mail server...
Not a cure all, but every little bit helps.
I don't know enough about imbedded systems to know exactly what's going on in there, but the Cassiopeia (pocket pc 2000) that my brother gave me for Christmas froze on me twice. After pokeing the "reset" button on the back it "rebooted" or something equivalent. All my files in RAM were still there, but my programs were shut down. If this is the hardware below the kernal, I don't think there's much of a problem.
The FAQ now says that hummor doesn't give you karma. (as though to prove his point.)