This is a good analysis. Don't listen to the guys below who are just saying YES RAH RAH OPEN SOURCE and who have never worked in IT or had to deal with managers howling at them when a 10 year old document won't open correctly in a new software package.
I love open source too, but let's be realistic here.
I think I am realistic. As is often the case, there is no one answer that will be correct. OOo is a little different from Msoffice. Just as each version of Msoffice is a little different from the one before. We are using OOo 2.4.
We have 20 or so desktops running linux and have been using OOo for the past 6 years. We routinely exchange documents with clients, but in circumstances where we usually run the master. Where it is necessary, for others to edit the digital file we just save to word format and send it off.
The real answer to your question depends upon how you use MS Office. If your people use every formatting and macro that is available, you are more likely to have problems in exchanging documents with others â" even in Msword. If your documents are relatively simple there will be few problems. A key point is that you can get a version of OOo and try it to see how the documents actually in use fare with it.
If most of your documents are for internal use in digital form you will have few issues in changing. If most off your documents are not subject to being reviewed and changed by others your people will fall in love with the save to pdf feature that OOo has. We send out in pdf whenever we can.
We use the spreadsheet, drawing and presentation features, but mainly for internal use, not for exchange with others. They do all that we require, but the bulk of our work is documents.
FWIW many of our documents are large, typically >30 pages; we extensively track changes; we work in two languages â" English and Chinese, and we have relatively few issues. Anyone familiar with using Msword will know that on large documents like ours, it will tend to fail to a corrupted binary file. The most recent versions may be different, but I have used it from the days of Word 5 in dos.
Don't think about changing everyone all at once. Change the easy ones and the key users. Once you get traction the rest will follow.
Re:Take a realistic approach
on
Dealing With Dialup
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· Score: 2, Informative
Go with the flow:-)
Use mobile websites where possible eg http://m.gmail.com./
Many websites still have have text pages - use them.
Ordinary email clients, such as Thunderbird work well at dialup speeds.
I find this thread overstates the problems with OOo to the point of being FUD.
We have 17 PCs running OOo under Linux. We work routinely in Chinese and English and exchange documents with clients all over the world. We do not make complex documents with lots of graphics - just words on paper - but most of our documents exceed 20 pages.
We have never, repeat never, had a crash where we lost the document content. Compare that with MSW, particularly when you get up around a 100 pages.
Speed is an issue at startup, but we only start once per day. None of my staff can use a keyboard faster than OOo can accept the input when it is running (our slowest machines are 1.7g Celerons).
We use the spreadsheet and other functions less intesively, but they do all that we need, inclusing simple financial calculations etc.
There are sometimes problems with documents received from outside, but we now have reasonable experience with dealing with this and, to be fair, there are many problems when working with different versions of MSW.
Our experience suggests that wider acceptnce of OOo just needs more people to learn how useful this program can be in an ordinary commercial setting. Better filters to accept MS documents are important, but that is only part of the story.
The comments about poor stability, simply do not match our experience, particularlty if lost data is taken into account.
This has to be a joke - right?
On your own evidence you had difficulty living and making money in China
Now you have a consultancy helping others?
Give us a break!
I think that you misunderstand China.
If MS were to pull out of China that would not stop MS software being used. Piracy rate would just go from 90% to 100%.
Chinese labour law is very clear on this issue and the comments attributed to Apple are laughable. It is unlawful for employees in China to work 60 hours per week, even if they request it. Chinese law provides for a 40 hour working week with quite limited legal overtime. Apple have chosen to permit these unlawful working hours.
It is very unlikely that Apple is unaware of this and this is just exploitation of workers by Apple's subcontractors.
900 million Chinese earn less than USD 300 per year and yes, that is poverty. You cannot live comfortably on that amount in China. No-one wants to work 60 hours per week, but it is not difficult to persuade someone to do that, contrary to the law, if they are very poor. That is why they do it - it has nothing to do with the Asian work ethic.
Apple should be ashamed of itself for participating in this exploitative conduct, and then trying to gloss over it.
I find it hard to give any credibility to these comments.
We use OOo 1.4 in a 100% commercial operation on Debian. Big documents (Typically > 20 pages). heavily formatted and in English and Chinese. Almost no graphics.
We routinely use tracked changes, version control etc etc. While OOo has its peculiarities, so does MS word.
Try running a heavily formatted 100 page document in Word. When it crashes, it crashes beyond recovery. The use of "when" was considered.
I find that most OOo bugs originate between the chair and the keyboard.
Strange - we are in China and have been using Chinese input, day and day out, for more than two years on linux - first with Red Hat and now with Debian.
To some extent this is delusional thinking that suits the sysadmin - not business.
We, unfortunately, have this situation happen to us from time to time. In the worst cases the email is just dumped (not bounced) and we only find out about it when the client complains.
We are unable to change our ISP because they "own" the building but the real problem is further up line - again it cannot be changed by us or our ISP. Up-line they are presumably too busy running spam for US based spammers to care.
We just explain to our clients that their IT staff are probably not savvy enough to set up a system that detects spam but allows business email through. We refer them to people who are savvy.:-)
Once they realise that their IT person is actually preventing incoming business reaching them, things change.
Universities, of course, remain isolated from commercial pressures.
The article is basically correct. It would be an error to say that the whole of China has these advances, but the developing areas are very large. The combined pupulation of Beijing, Shanghai and Tianjin is over 30 million. Add Chonqing and you have another 30 million. Those figures leave out the whole of the Pearl River Delta so the real numbers are much larger.
China has its black spots, but there are many aspects of its service economy that are astoundingly good. Give credit where credit is due.
Evidence? Contrary to popular belief, working hours in China are regulated and those quoted are in the realm of fantasy.
Re:It ends when they get some tech folks in there
on
More Microsoft Patents
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· Score: 1
Unless there are some significant differences in language usage in the US, this is not an accurate description of arbitration.
Arbitration imposes a legally binding decision.
Mediation OTOH, does require agreement.
RMS may have a particular point of view. Most people who try to bring about change do.
He has had a big impact on FOSS as we know it and is to be respected for that. Any standard, commercial or otherwise, that is incompatible with FOSS is potentially dangerous.
It is possible to make it comply - if it does not it is safe to assume that there is a reason that is not in the best interests of FOSS.
The function of government is to govern. Market forces are only one aspect of that.
Taking a strategic decision now that may may prove of national and economic advantage in the long term is an example of good government.
Japan did not start out building "world best" quality anything. Taiwan's first computers were not to US quality standards.
Govermnents taking strategic decisions helped make Japan and Taiwan the world class suppliers that they are today. Similar things are happening in China.
Malaysia's government is entitled to make whatever decisons it likes in its pursuit of a good future for its citizens. That is exactly the position that the US government takes about its own decisons.
Really? There are two parties to a "pirate" transaction.
Last time I was down at the market it was full of Americans stocking up on cheap software and other goods.
MS has all the government connections it needs in the form of the US government.
WJ
The US government has the power to stop this - it just lacks the political will.
The end benefit of spam goes to sales by US companies.
Draft laws to the effect that the company that gets the end benefit can be held responsible unless they can show that they had no knowledge.
For those that are worried about the civil liberties aspects of this, check out the laws related to pure food, employment of children etc etc, before you post.
Follow the money trail and then make it unprofitable for those that benefit. The spammer is just the scummy link in the chain - they are not providing morgages to anyone.
This is just egocentric crap!
We are frequently blocked because our netblock is a source of spam.
The ultimate provider is controlled by a branch of the Chinese government.
Like most people here, we have no choice, or influence over our ISP.
The logic in the post is therefore fatally flawed.
Be aware, that the fastest growing power in IT and related is China. Do you really want to exclude that potential source of business enquiry? If so, it is not surprising that you are exporting your jobs to India and China.
Ironically, 99% of the spam I receive is for products whose ultimate source is the USA.
I live in China. We can buy almost any MS product (or Adobe, or Symantec) on the street for less tham USD 2. (Not quite, but almost free, as in beer).
Locally written software is also routinely pirated.
The government may have some control over what goes on their own computers, but that is hardly certain.
It is, put at its highest, a statement of policy that should not be ignored, but it is not going to impact on US jobs all that much.
Slashdot Mirror
This is a good analysis. Don't listen to the guys below who are just saying YES RAH RAH OPEN SOURCE and who have never worked in IT or had to deal with managers howling at them when a 10 year old document won't open correctly in a new software package. I love open source too, but let's be realistic here.
I think I am realistic. As is often the case, there is no one answer that will be correct. OOo is a little different from Msoffice. Just as each version of Msoffice is a little different from the one before. We are using OOo 2.4.
We have 20 or so desktops running linux and have been using OOo for the past 6 years. We routinely exchange documents with clients, but in circumstances where we usually run the master. Where it is necessary, for others to edit the digital file we just save to word format and send it off.
The real answer to your question depends upon how you use MS Office. If your people use every formatting and macro that is available, you are more likely to have problems in exchanging documents with others â" even in Msword. If your documents are relatively simple there will be few problems. A key point is that you can get a version of OOo and try it to see how the documents actually in use fare with it.
If most of your documents are for internal use in digital form you will have few issues in changing. If most off your documents are not subject to being reviewed and changed by others your people will fall in love with the save to pdf feature that OOo has. We send out in pdf whenever we can.
We use the spreadsheet, drawing and presentation features, but mainly for internal use, not for exchange with others. They do all that we require, but the bulk of our work is documents.
FWIW many of our documents are large, typically >30 pages; we extensively track changes; we work in two languages â" English and Chinese, and we have relatively few issues. Anyone familiar with using Msword will know that on large documents like ours, it will tend to fail to a corrupted binary file. The most recent versions may be different, but I have used it from the days of Word 5 in dos.
Don't think about changing everyone all at once. Change the easy ones and the key users. Once you get traction the rest will follow.
Go with the flow :-)
Use mobile websites where possible eg http://m.gmail.com./
Many websites still have have text pages - use them.
Ordinary email clients, such as Thunderbird work well at dialup speeds.
I find this thread overstates the problems with OOo to the point of being FUD.
We have 17 PCs running OOo under Linux. We work routinely in Chinese and English and exchange documents with clients all over the world. We do not make complex documents with lots of graphics - just words on paper - but most of our documents exceed 20 pages.
We have never, repeat never, had a crash where we lost the document content. Compare that with MSW, particularly when you get up around a 100 pages.
Speed is an issue at startup, but we only start once per day. None of my staff can use a keyboard faster than OOo can accept the input when it is running (our slowest machines are 1.7g Celerons).
We use the spreadsheet and other functions less intesively, but they do all that we need, inclusing simple financial calculations etc. There are sometimes problems with documents received from outside, but we now have reasonable experience with dealing with this and, to be fair, there are many problems when working with different versions of MSW.
Our experience suggests that wider acceptnce of OOo just needs more people to learn how useful this program can be in an ordinary commercial setting. Better filters to accept MS documents are important, but that is only part of the story.
The comments about poor stability, simply do not match our experience, particularlty if lost data is taken into account.
This has to be a joke - right?
On your own evidence you had difficulty living and making money in China
Now you have a consultancy helping others?
Give us a break!
I think that you misunderstand China. If MS were to pull out of China that would not stop MS software being used. Piracy rate would just go from 90% to 100%.
This is untrue. Chinese law provides for a 5 day 40 hour working week for most employees.
Chinese labour law is very clear on this issue and the comments attributed to Apple are laughable. It is unlawful for employees in China to work 60 hours per week, even if they request it. Chinese law provides for a 40 hour working week with quite limited legal overtime. Apple have chosen to permit these unlawful working hours.
It is very unlikely that Apple is unaware of this and this is just exploitation of workers by Apple's subcontractors.
900 million Chinese earn less than USD 300 per year and yes, that is poverty. You cannot live comfortably on that amount in China. No-one wants to work 60 hours per week, but it is not difficult to persuade someone to do that, contrary to the law, if they are very poor. That is why they do it - it has nothing to do with the Asian work ethic.
Apple should be ashamed of itself for participating in this exploitative conduct, and then trying to gloss over it.
I find it hard to give any credibility to these comments.
We use OOo 1.4 in a 100% commercial operation on Debian. Big documents (Typically > 20 pages). heavily formatted and in English and Chinese. Almost no graphics.
We routinely use tracked changes, version control etc etc. While OOo has its peculiarities, so does MS word.
Try running a heavily formatted 100 page document in Word. When it crashes, it crashes beyond recovery. The use of "when" was considered.
I find that most OOo bugs originate between the chair and the keyboard.
I presume this is a troll. You have never heard of samba or rsync?
Strange - we are in China and have been using Chinese input, day and day out, for more than two years on linux - first with Red Hat and now with Debian.
What was so special about last month?
To some extent this is delusional thinking that suits the sysadmin - not business.
:-)
We, unfortunately, have this situation happen to us from time to time. In the worst cases the email is just dumped (not bounced) and we only find out about it when the client complains.
We are unable to change our ISP because they "own" the building but the real problem is further up line - again it cannot be changed by us or our ISP. Up-line they are presumably too busy running spam for US based spammers to care.
We just explain to our clients that their IT staff are probably not savvy enough to set up a system that detects spam but allows business email through. We refer them to people who are savvy.
Once they realise that their IT person is actually preventing incoming business reaching them, things change.
Universities, of course, remain isolated from commercial pressures.
The article is basically correct.
It would be an error to say that the whole of China has these advances, but the developing areas are very large. The combined pupulation of Beijing, Shanghai and Tianjin is over 30 million. Add Chonqing and you have another 30 million.
Those figures leave out the whole of the Pearl River Delta so the real numbers are much larger.
China has its black spots, but there are many aspects of its service economy that are astoundingly good. Give credit where credit is due.
Evidence? Contrary to popular belief, working hours in China are regulated and those quoted are in the realm of fantasy.
Unless there are some significant differences in language usage in the US, this is not an accurate description of arbitration. Arbitration imposes a legally binding decision. Mediation OTOH, does require agreement.
RMS may have a particular point of view. Most people who try to bring about change do.
He has had a big impact on FOSS as we know it and is to be respected for that. Any standard, commercial or otherwise, that is incompatible with FOSS is potentially dangerous.
It is possible to make it comply - if it does not it is safe to assume that there is a reason that is not in the best interests of FOSS.
The function of government is to govern. Market forces are only one aspect of that.
Taking a strategic decision now that may may prove of national and economic advantage in the long term is an example of good government.
Japan did not start out building "world best" quality anything. Taiwan's first computers were not to US quality standards.
Govermnents taking strategic decisions helped make Japan and Taiwan the world class suppliers that they are today. Similar things are happening in China.
Malaysia's government is entitled to make whatever decisons it likes in its pursuit of a good future for its citizens. That is exactly the position that the US government takes about its own decisons.
Really? There are two parties to a "pirate" transaction. Last time I was down at the market it was full of Americans stocking up on cheap software and other goods. MS has all the government connections it needs in the form of the US government. WJ
The US government has the power to stop this - it just lacks the political will.
The end benefit of spam goes to sales by US companies.
Draft laws to the effect that the company that gets the end benefit can be held responsible unless they can show that they had no knowledge.
For those that are worried about the civil liberties aspects of this, check out the laws related to pure food, employment of children etc etc, before you post.
Follow the money trail and then make it unprofitable for those that benefit. The spammer is just the scummy link in the chain - they are not providing morgages to anyone.
This is just egocentric crap! We are frequently blocked because our netblock is a source of spam. The ultimate provider is controlled by a branch of the Chinese government. Like most people here, we have no choice, or influence over our ISP. The logic in the post is therefore fatally flawed. Be aware, that the fastest growing power in IT and related is China. Do you really want to exclude that potential source of business enquiry? If so, it is not surprising that you are exporting your jobs to India and China. Ironically, 99% of the spam I receive is for products whose ultimate source is the USA.
I live in China. We can buy almost any MS product (or Adobe, or Symantec) on the street for less tham USD 2. (Not quite, but almost free, as in beer). Locally written software is also routinely pirated. The government may have some control over what goes on their own computers, but that is hardly certain. It is, put at its highest, a statement of policy that should not be ignored, but it is not going to impact on US jobs all that much.