"light-duty image programs like Paint Shop Pro"...
What the hell are they talking about!? PSP can do everything Photoshop can! I think it's a far superior program b/c of it's ease of use. I do tons of graphics and I never touch that Adobe filth...
Thank God that someone is trying to make a better art program for Linux, Gimp tries to be Photoshop way too much, so I have to boot into Windows when I want to do graphics....
Wow, the scribus site has already crashed from it's slashdot article. Maybe slashdot should have a caching service for any articles posted on the main page, kind of like google's cache(but with graphics).
As many have already said the main purpose of these shows has always been about the developers and publishers selling thier product to the retailers and press. However, it was always a major secondary factor that the consumers (read gamers) would get alot of exciting info from them too. In the past a CES show or E3 or whatever would show off exciting new gadgets and games, but now if you've watched for the last 10 years of E3, that secondary part is almost obsolete. There are hardly any suprises anymore. 99% of the games are already shown prior to the show, even if that's just a week in advance. The only real value in E3 is getting to play/use the stuff hands on. So now that the consumer aspect is worthless, these shows are going to get alot smaller and have less money thrown into them.
I went to E3 in 2001 and got to try out the Xbox and Gamecube before they were out, and that was amazing, but still I really didn't see or learn anything I didn't already know before I got there. I think these shows will go back to just focusing on the trade/bussiness aspects and not have as much flash for the press in the future. The E3 surprise factor is gone.
Ok, I've seen posts for both sides and I want to say, that I can see how someone would want to not look at games as an art. But I disagree...
I'm in college right now, and have already began production on a small independant game. For almost 10 years now I have dreamt of being a game designer and have studied into what makes one great in this area. (hopefully it will pay off...) I believe to do well, you must be well versed in both art and science, and I've always felt like the bastard child of both areas.
First off, you have to ask the question what is art? For anyone who is into philosophy, this is always a fun question to try and answer. Unfortunately, many common people define "graphic art" as the only art. Art is relative. To me, art is simply creating something from your imagination that communicates that piece of you to others. Art is a form of communication, yet it conveys something on a much deeper level than any language ever could.
Now, by this definition, even the progammers' code can be seen as a work of art, I know I think of it that way.
But to not take up too much of your time... Saying games are not art, is like saying movies are not art. Now, some games are very simple, and have little to no story, but can still be considered works of art. But even Ms. Pac Man had a story... And the story of a game can provoke many emotions in the player, but even just the gameplay itself can make you feel something more than just fun. That's why so many RPGs are so popular, the good ones touch you in some way that most games cannot. For a game to make you feel, that makes it truely a work of art.
But that's not all of art, to promote ideals and morals into the player is also possible. Take Jet Set Radio Future for example. Even though your character is breaking the law, you are fighting for something much more important in the end, freedom. Now, this may have been a bad example since it has piss-poor gameplay and a mediocre story, but it was the first thing that came to mind for a slightly political-ish game not an RPG.
If something is art or not, will always be in the eye of the beholder, but video games can rise to be the greatest art form of all if done correctly. They can include almost all other artforms within them and make it interactive.
Ok, I'm sure I'm the 800th person to say this, but the PS2 has been a huge dissapointment ever since it's initial release. I worked at an EB from Jan 2000 - May 2002, so I saw the launch of all 3 systems and can vouch for alot of stuff that happened. Out of the few PS2's we got (although our store got the most in our district) at least 1 in 10 came back defective within a month. Then when they released the 2nd version about 6 months later it slowed to about 1 in 20. I'm sure it's much better now, but what were they thinking!? 1 in 10 consoles not working but maybe a month? How could they release such a faulty piece of hardware?
Not only that, but I was a big Dreamcast supporter at the time and saw many people come in and want a PS2 purely for namesake, not actually for quality. Any of the real gamers that would come in the store and owned both said they never used their ps2 except to watch DVDs and then some of them wouldn't even work on it.
Not only that but with it's weird architecture it's the hardest of the 3 consoles to develop for...that's the same reason the Saturn failed, but obviously Sony had enough financial pull to convince developers to work on it anyway.
Then when the Xbox and GC came out people kept buying PS2s like they were selling 'em for $20 or something. I would point out to my customers that the PS2 was a flawed machine and severely outmatched by both the GC and the Xbox and they would still buy it simply b/c of the Playstation name. I can not believe how stupid so many people are.
Well, now PS2 has some good games finally, but 99.9% of them are out on Xbox and GC too. The ONLY game PS2 has that I need is FFX...so I guess I may break down and buy one after they go to $99. As for now, my Xbox and GC are kicking ass in it's place.
That's what's wrong with the business world these days. Everyone is too afraid to stand up for what they believe in. People will talk about what they wish they could change all day and then not do a damn thing about it. The only way we are ever going to get treated fairly is if we stand up for ourselves and each other.
The only reason companies get away with such clauses is because we let them.
Slashdot Mirror
"light-duty image programs like Paint Shop Pro"... What the hell are they talking about!? PSP can do everything Photoshop can! I think it's a far superior program b/c of it's ease of use. I do tons of graphics and I never touch that Adobe filth... Thank God that someone is trying to make a better art program for Linux, Gimp tries to be Photoshop way too much, so I have to boot into Windows when I want to do graphics....
I wonder if there's any chance they'll support ogg vorbis? I mean, it's not like it'll cost them anything...
Wow, the scribus site has already crashed from it's slashdot article. Maybe slashdot should have a caching service for any articles posted on the main page, kind of like google's cache(but with graphics).
The more important question is, will they be friendly?
As many have already said the main purpose of these shows has always been about the developers and publishers selling thier product to the retailers and press. However, it was always a major secondary factor that the consumers (read gamers) would get alot of exciting info from them too. In the past a CES show or E3 or whatever would show off exciting new gadgets and games, but now if you've watched for the last 10 years of E3, that secondary part is almost obsolete. There are hardly any suprises anymore. 99% of the games are already shown prior to the show, even if that's just a week in advance. The only real value in E3 is getting to play/use the stuff hands on. So now that the consumer aspect is worthless, these shows are going to get alot smaller and have less money thrown into them.
I went to E3 in 2001 and got to try out the Xbox and Gamecube before they were out, and that was amazing, but still I really didn't see or learn anything I didn't already know before I got there. I think these shows will go back to just focusing on the trade/bussiness aspects and not have as much flash for the press in the future. The E3 surprise factor is gone.
Ok, I've seen posts for both sides and I want to say, that I can see how someone would want to not look at games as an art. But I disagree...
...thank you for your time...
I'm in college right now, and have already began production on a small independant game. For almost 10 years now I have dreamt of being a game designer and have studied into what makes one great in this area. (hopefully it will pay off...) I believe to do well, you must be well versed in both art and science, and I've always felt like the bastard child of both areas.
First off, you have to ask the question what is art? For anyone who is into philosophy, this is always a fun question to try and answer. Unfortunately, many common people define "graphic art" as the only art. Art is relative. To me, art is simply creating something from your imagination that communicates that piece of you to others. Art is a form of communication, yet it conveys something on a much deeper level than any language ever could.
Now, by this definition, even the progammers' code can be seen as a work of art, I know I think of it that way.
But to not take up too much of your time... Saying games are not art, is like saying movies are not art. Now, some games are very simple, and have little to no story, but can still be considered works of art. But even Ms. Pac Man had a story... And the story of a game can provoke many emotions in the player, but even just the gameplay itself can make you feel something more than just fun. That's why so many RPGs are so popular, the good ones touch you in some way that most games cannot. For a game to make you feel, that makes it truely a work of art.
But that's not all of art, to promote ideals and morals into the player is also possible. Take Jet Set Radio Future for example. Even though your character is breaking the law, you are fighting for something much more important in the end, freedom. Now, this may have been a bad example since it has piss-poor gameplay and a mediocre story, but it was the first thing that came to mind for a slightly political-ish game not an RPG.
If something is art or not, will always be in the eye of the beholder, but video games can rise to be the greatest art form of all if done correctly. They can include almost all other artforms within them and make it interactive.
sorry for it not spacing correctly....this was my first /. comment.
Ok, I'm sure I'm the 800th person to say this, but the PS2 has been a huge dissapointment ever since it's initial release. I worked at an EB from Jan 2000 - May 2002, so I saw the launch of all 3 systems and can vouch for alot of stuff that happened. Out of the few PS2's we got (although our store got the most in our district) at least 1 in 10 came back defective within a month. Then when they released the 2nd version about 6 months later it slowed to about 1 in 20. I'm sure it's much better now, but what were they thinking!? 1 in 10 consoles not working but maybe a month? How could they release such a faulty piece of hardware? Not only that, but I was a big Dreamcast supporter at the time and saw many people come in and want a PS2 purely for namesake, not actually for quality. Any of the real gamers that would come in the store and owned both said they never used their ps2 except to watch DVDs and then some of them wouldn't even work on it. Not only that but with it's weird architecture it's the hardest of the 3 consoles to develop for...that's the same reason the Saturn failed, but obviously Sony had enough financial pull to convince developers to work on it anyway. Then when the Xbox and GC came out people kept buying PS2s like they were selling 'em for $20 or something. I would point out to my customers that the PS2 was a flawed machine and severely outmatched by both the GC and the Xbox and they would still buy it simply b/c of the Playstation name. I can not believe how stupid so many people are. Well, now PS2 has some good games finally, but 99.9% of them are out on Xbox and GC too. The ONLY game PS2 has that I need is FFX...so I guess I may break down and buy one after they go to $99. As for now, my Xbox and GC are kicking ass in it's place.
That's what's wrong with the business world these days. Everyone is too afraid to stand up for what they believe in. People will talk about what they wish they could change all day and then not do a damn thing about it. The only way we are ever going to get treated fairly is if we stand up for ourselves and each other. The only reason companies get away with such clauses is because we let them.