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PlayStation 2 Timeline, From Launch to Present

Posted by simoniker on from the riding-the-sony-pony dept.

Decaffeinated Jedi writes "GameSpy has posted a timeline charting the history Sony's PlayStation 2, the third part in a series previously covered on Slashdot that includes similar retrospectives for the Xbox and for GameCube. The timeline traces the PlayStation 2's history from its initial boom, through its period as 'a repository for bad sports games, giant robot games, and other disappointing releases,' and up to the console's revitalization by such games as Gran Turismo 3, Metal Gear Solid 2, Devil May Cry, and Grand Theft Auto III." How has the PlayStation 2 measured up to your expectations?

83 comments

  1. Timeline? I saw no timeline. by DaZedAdAm · · Score: 5, Funny

    So where exactly was this timeline? It looked to me much more like a 5 page list of dated events. They seemed to have missed out on a very important part of the timeline....the LINE.

  2. Incorrect number? by Slashdot+Insider · · Score: 4, Informative
    Sony's weekly 100,000-unit shipments only further agitated the market. Though PlayStation 2 units were readily available in Japan, the console remained virtually sold out in the United States through March, 2001.
    IIRC that number was eventually cut down to 50K/week before getting cut down even further to 25K/week. The massive 0.25um 300mm^2 chip in the blasted thing probably didn't help Sony meet shipment targets.
  3. Not that great. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How has the PlayStation 2 measured up to your expectations?

    Poorly.

    The hardware is better than the Playstation 1, sure, but because it was so difficult to make games for, the first generation of titles barely looked any better than Playstation 1 titles. They had higher resolution, slightly better textures - but that's about it.

    And even the games that make the best use of the hardware today still aren't very good from a technical standpoint. The Playstation 2 can't even do anti-aliasing and trilinear filtering. Something that a bottom-of-the-range 3Dfx graphics accelerator could easily do in 1998. I mean, look closely at Soul Calibur on the Dreamcast. Nothing on the Playstation 2 has ever come close to looking that clear, crisp and vibrant - including the native PS2 Soul Calibur 2 release.

    And the best Playstation 2 titles just look kind of average in comparison to the best on Xbox and Gamecube. Splinter Cell and Crimson Skies on Xbox both look amazing. The best PS2 titles look.. well.. merely okay underneath all the rendering artifacts and lack of high-quality models and textures.

    The PS2 has the best controller, best memory cards, best sleek case design. But it also has the worst technology - worst video hardware, worst processor, worst CD-drive (that is really noisy!) and worst load times.

    A textbook triumph of marketing over technology.

    1. Re:Not that great. by TechnoPops · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A textbook triumph of marketing over technology.

      The thing you seem to forget is that Sony was first. Yes, compared to Xbox and the cube, the PS2 hardware seems kind of lame, but the PS2 was also the first out the gate... with over a year of lead time. Sony set the bar, and MS and the Big N naturally aimed over it.

      --
      "Each time you smile, it'll only last awhile. Life may be scary, but it's only temporary."
    2. Re:Not that great. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The thing you seem to forget is that Sony was first.

      Um... you're forgetting about Sega's Dreamcast? It was the first console with "real" 3D hardware (after the Nintendo 64) and even had a built-in modem.

      It had specs similar to the Gamecube - even though it reached the market way before the PS2 did, Sony's marketing destroyed it. This was part of the problem though - the Dreamcast was perceived by the public as a late-comer to the previous generation - not as a machine way ahead of it's time. I almost think that if they'd delayed and released it later (just before the PS2) Sega probably would have had some form of long-term success with the Dreamcast.

    3. Re:Not that great. by Oddly_Drac · · Score: 1

      "The Playstation 2 can't even do anti-aliasing and trilinear filtering. Something that a bottom-of-the-range 3Dfx graphics accelerator could easily do in 1998."

      In 4mb of Rambus? I don't think so.

      --
      Oddly Draconis
      Too cynical to live, too stubborn to die.
    4. Re:Not that great. by LeoDV · · Score: 1

      Troll.

      It has the worst hardware because it came out first, and what matters in a console isn't the hardware, it's the software. Somebody mod this down. 'Insightful' my ass.

    5. Re:Not that great. by k_187 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Good point, but saying that the dreamcast and gamecube's specs were similar is just silly. The Dreamcast has a 200 mHz SH4 + PowerVR II graphics. The Gamecube has a 485 mHz PowerPC derivative (I believe its real similar to the 750 G3s that used to be in ibooks) + a custom designed Art-X (now Ati) chip. There's other differences in there, how sound is done, system ram make up etc. The gamecube is much more powerful than the dreamcast was. Although the Dreamcast did compete very well on graphics compared to the PS2. Its just that like you said, Sony's hype machine killed the non-hardcore gamer enthusiasm for the dreamcast, which happened to have the best launch ever at the time.

      --
      11 was a racehorse
      12 was 12
      1111 Race
      12112
    6. Re:Not that great. by kisrael · · Score: 4, Interesting

      and what matters in a console isn't the hardware, it's the software.
      For my money, the software isn't that hot either.

      I have all 3 systems, started with the GC. Now that Xbox has GTA3 and GTA:VC for it, I have fewer reasons than ever to want to keep the PS2. There are some genres were the PS2 is the best, but it's notably so-so at some stuff I like, for instance splitscreen multiplayer. (Stupid multitap) I know some people really think it has a super terrific library, but I think in the end, all 3 systems end up having about the same # of "really great" games, and the "really great" gams on PS2 don't interest me as a gamer as much as the other 2 systems.

      --
      SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
    7. Re:Not that great. by Pike65 · · Score: 1

      What sold me on the PS2 was the backwards compatability and the near garantee of a decent software catalog. Means I finally get to play FFVII, Syndicate Wars and Bushido Blade again after my PS1 went to the big second-hand hardware store in the sky. Sure, compared to the other consoles some of the games look like arse, but then compared to a PC this will always be the case too.

      Besides, I tend to play the PS2 when I get home after a night out anyway, so someone could probably replace it with a SNES and I doubt I'd notice . . .

      --
      "If being a geek means being passionate about something, then I pity those who aren't geeks." - Pike65
    8. Re:Not that great. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You'd probably notice an increase of fun if they replaced it with a SNES.

    9. Re:Not that great. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I cannot believe that you would call those oddly shaped triangles on a stick the best controller. They don't even fit into your hand properly.

      Even the Xbox's humongous controller feels better in my hands than that piece.

    10. Re:Not that great. by default+luser · · Score: 1

      You don't think so, eh?

      The N64 certainly didn't have a problem doing anti-aliasing on 4MB of ram. While I have to agree it was kinda stupid to put so little memory in for video, you can always just stream textures.

      As for trilinear, I don't think it has much of a memory cost. You're doing blending of interleaving MIPMAP levels in real-time, so it mostly cuts into your pixel thoroughput.

      --

      Man is the animal that laughs.
      And occasionally whores for Karma.

    11. Re:Not that great. by Singletoned · · Score: 1

      I've got all three systems too (though I got them in the order of release).

      I've ended up giving the PS2 to my gf, there's just nothing left to play on it (though I am in Europe where I'm not going to get hold of Disagea).

      It was good while it lasted, but it didn't last as long as it should. The only thing going for it now is the fact that you can get the software very cheap.

    12. Re:Not that great. by Oddly_Drac · · Score: 1

      "The N64 certainly didn't have a problem doing anti-aliasing on 4MB of ram. While I have to agree it was kinda stupid to put so little memory in for video, you can always just stream textures."

      Hmm. What's the main implication for streaming the textures from a cartridge rather than a CD/DVD? Throughput, etc?

      "You're doing blending of interleaving MIPMAP levels in real-time, so it mostly cuts into your pixel thoroughput."

      Which in turn impacts the framerate and upper polygon count of the scenes you're showing; personally I prefer both of those to 'making sh*t fuzzy' method of antialiasing.

      And BTW, my point was that you'd be hard pressed to find a card in 1998 that could handle trilinear/bilinear antialiasing in 4Mb, I'll concede that maybe the N64 could (I can't be bothered checking at the mo), but I suspect that PS2 was dumped in favour of getting the platform out somewhere close to delivery dates or possibly even the cultural influence.

      --
      Oddly Draconis
      Too cynical to live, too stubborn to die.
    13. Re:Not that great. by default+luser · · Score: 1

      Hmm. What's the main implication for streaming the textures from a cartridge rather than a CD/DVD? Throughput, etc?

      Developers already learned to do this properly on the original Playstation. Did you not notice how much better quality textures games began to use toward the latter days of the PSX? Do keep in mind that this was a 2x CD-ROM drive (300K/s)...the 4x DVD-ROM drive on the PS2 has a minimum of 10x more thoroughput. How the hell do you think the Gamecube gets by with only 3MB framebuffer?

      And BTW, my point was that you'd be hard pressed to find a card in 1998 that could handle trilinear/bilinear antialiasing in 4Mb

      You'd be wrong. The Rendition Verite 1000 could do trilinear filtering and edge anti-aliasing on 4MB ram...in 1996, at the same resolution as your PS2 and at playable framerates no less. Just look up VQuake if you want more information.

      So could the original Voodoo Graphics, according to 3dfx docs, although I never witnessed a Glide-native game that utilized AA. Even the Riva 128 and Rage Pro advertised similar capabilities, and of the 3 of them only the Rage Pro had support for more than 4MB framebuffer.

      Funny thing, the v1000 had ~500MB/s video bandwidth. Sony's eDRAM can give you 9.6GB/s of texture bandwidth, but it cannot give you anti-aliasing.

      Face it, FSAA an is incredibly costly method for smoothing jaggies - the only reason it became popular and Edge AA lost mindshare is because game developers were too lazy to continue making native ports of their games after the release of D3D and the rise to popularity of OpenGL. But then again, on a console, EVERY port is a native port. If Sony really wanted to bring you AA in 4MB of ram, they most certainly could; this is why people never let up on their decision to exclude this important feature.

      --

      Man is the animal that laughs.
      And occasionally whores for Karma.

  4. Never had Any Expectations ... by Mad_Fred · · Score: 4, Interesting

    For some reason, I've never felt any draw to the PS2 itself as a console. The Gamecube is cool (and these days ridiculously cheap too) and the Xbox ... well, the fact that I bought one says it all I think ... Guess the specs appealed to the geek in me and the games I wanted were available.

    But the PS2, nope. Never any attraction. And that's despite the fact that I've played several great games on a friend's unit over the years. It's just never felt purchase-worthy. And I don't think it will even if it drops to 'Cube prices, but I'm always toying with the idea of picking up a 'Cube just to play Zelda and Metroid.

    Perhaps it's simply that the PS2 has a lot of good and great games, just nothing that's a total drool-causer for me. Especially not drool-causers that don't show up on the other consoles if you're just a little patient ...

  5. Stop hatin' on my big 'bots. by Rallion · · Score: 3, Funny

    I take offense to the terrible treatment that giant robot games recieve.

    In all seriousness, Zone of Enders II: The Second Runner is my favorite PS2 game. And that's all about the robots.

    Also, I found it interesting that they could talk about games that looked cool but aren't really as fun as they look, and yet mention Devil May Cry as one of the console's great titles.

    But come on. More love for the giant robots, please.

  6. More powerful? Ahem... by bishiraver · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Both systems were more powerful than PlayStation 2.
    This statement amuses me. The Xbox is built on an 800mhz celeron processor. The Gamecube utilizes a powerpc based processor. The only reason graphics on the playstation 2 look sub-par, is because it only has 4mb of video memory. The actual cpu, video processing units, and sound processing units are much more powerful than either the Gamecube or xbox. One vector unit of the PS2's emotion engine, for example, can perform Just over a GFLOP. This is immensely better than the X-box (my dual pentium3 800mhz machine cannot even perform a GFLOP), though I'm not sure about the gamecube - I assume it probably doesn't do as well, either. Of course, this performance is only utilizing one of the vector units - there are two. 2GFLOPS (even though they proportedly are capable of 6.2) is nothing to be ashamed of.

    As was said before, the actual logic units of the playstation2 are well beyond both the xbox and the gamecube - the simple fact is, that the video memory does not hold nearly as many pretty textures, and cannot do anti-aliasing very well (mainly because of the lack of memory). If they had utilized something like 64mb or 128mb of memory, the system would have smoked either one of the other systems. The major problem with the emotion engine in floating point calculations, is that it only performs at 32-bit precision, not 64-bit. Of course, neither do the numerous pentium3 (And 4) based beowulf clusters out there.
    1. Re:More powerful? Ahem... by NanoGator · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "The actual cpu, video processing units, and sound processing units are much more powerful than either the Gamecube or xbox."

      No, they're not. You're comparing the main processors of the GC and XBOX to the PS2's graphic chip. The GC and XBOX both have seperate graphics chips, and the results wipe the floor with the PS2. The RAM bottleneck for that system is a good chunk of the reason why the graphics are blurry, no doubt about that. However, the GC and XBOX both have nifty little hardware graphic features (anti-aliasing, texture compression, etc) that the PS2 has to do in software.

      The XBOX and GC are both decidedly more powerful than the PS2, they also have technology that's a year newer.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    2. Re:More powerful? Ahem... by bishiraver · · Score: 5, Informative

      No, the emotion engine (made up of vector units and central processing unit) is seperate from the graphics synthesizer, which has a memory bandwidth of 48 gigabytes/sec. The Geforce3 (similar to the graphics chip in the xbox) has approximately 7.36 GB/s of memory bandwidth.

      Unlike what was said in another post, the PS2 -does- do trilinear filtering - Along with "Texture Mapping, Bump Mapping, Fogging, Alpha Blending, Bi-...Linear Filtering, MIPMAP, Anti-aliasing, and Multi-pass Rendering".

      The problems, of course, are that the emotion engine and graphics synthesizer require a PhD in mathematics and computer science to be able to code for them, so their potential has barely been reached - even by Sony's own programmers.

    3. Re:More powerful? Ahem... by mzs · · Score: 1
      Of course, neither do the numerous pentium3 (And 4) based beowulf clusters out there.

      Interesting, I thought that ever since the i80x87 line of chips you had 80-bit floating point. It even has support for many rounding modes. This is superior precision to the IEEE 64-bit spec.

      Please also understand that the 6.2 GFlops you cite is a theoretical peak, while you state that your dual P3 does not even get 1 GFlop this was surely with some lame test you ran. The P3 using SSE can do much better than what you claim.

      Are you a Sony fanboy by any chance :)

    4. Re:More powerful? Ahem... by xero314 · · Score: 4, Informative

      This is where any programer or person with any technical knowledge begins to laugh. The Vector Units of the PS2 are not it's graphics engine. These units are general purpose vector units. Yes it is true that in typical game design one of the two VUs is dedicated for Graphics processing, this is not only not required nor is it always done.

      There is a reason that more than one major US university has a project to use a PS2, or PS2 cluster, for scientific computing, and none have atempted this with an xbox (not sure about the game cube, which also has decent vector procssing) . The power and flexibility of the VUs is the reason why PS2 games have better AI and Physics (when comparing the best of console games, all systems have their crappy games). The fact that the VUs are not dedicated to graphics processing is why PS2 graphics are not what they could be, because most developers, especialy american developers, have never programed on such a system. But as I have said before Lazyness is no reason knock a system.

      The real ignorance is shown with statements about the PS2s RAM bottle neck. If you ever looked at the arcitecture of the PS2 you will see it was built for high process Multimedia. It is capable of moving it's entire main memory store in a single cycle to any one of it's processing units. The key is keeping the pipeline full. Typical programing has been done by filling large memory stores, cache, and letting it tricle out to the processing units. Do your self a favor and research the technology before you try and talk about it.

    5. Re:More powerful? Ahem... by edwdig · · Score: 1

      You're forgetting that the GameCube and Xbox use ATI and NVidia chips for the graphics, respectively. Compare the Flipper chip or the GeForce derivative to the emotion engine if you want a fair comparison - the emotion engine looks pretty bad when you do that.

      Before you complain the PS2 only has 4 megs of video memory, keep in mind that the GameCube only has 3 megs of video memory. The GameCube has 24 megs of main RAM, 16 megs of auxillary RAM (not directly CPU addressable - you need to use DMA to transfer data in/out of it), and 3 megs of video memory. In comparision, the PS2 has 32 megs of main memory and 4 megs of video memory. The Xbox has a unified memory architecture, with 64 megs of total RAM.

      Also, Pentium chips perform floating point math at 80 bit precision.

    6. Re:More powerful? Ahem... by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      "Do your self a favor and research the technology before you try and talk about it. "

      I did, the graphics on it suck.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    7. Re:More powerful? Ahem... by bishiraver · · Score: 1

      Actually, no, I don't even own a playstation 2 (I sometimes use my kid brother's, though). I prefer gaming on the computer.

      However, I have special interest in the Playstation 2, seeing as I'm in the High Performance Computing department of my school - I've been doing specific research on playstation 2s, their floating point performance, and scalability of clusters. From what I've found, though, the playstation2-linux project hasn't really gotten a lot of utilities completely ported over to take advantage of the vector units. Everything able to be compiled as MIPS, works on it.. but won't use the special hardware.

    8. Re:More powerful? Ahem... by bishiraver · · Score: 1

      The emotion engine isn't the graphics engine of the PS2 - though it can be used to augment the graphics engine of the PS2. It's a major overlook that a lot of people make, and is outlined better here.

    9. Re:More powerful? Ahem... by skyknytnowhere · · Score: 1

      Critical failure of logic, core dump.

      GURU MEDITATION #522640,8327468

    10. Re:More powerful? Ahem... by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 1

      That's not a failure of logic. It's a wad of insight rolled up into a package that Mr. "I'm smarter than you" isn't witty enough to realize. He was pointing out that the results don't match up to what he was describing.

    11. Re:More powerful? Ahem... by cbirdsong64 · · Score: 1

      Good point. You can talk all the technical shit you want, but the fact remains that most PS2 games look like complete shit compared to GC and Xbox games, and even some Dreamcast games.

  7. It surprises me. . . by M3wThr33 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    For as many failed units that Sony throws out, it still amazes me when people associate the word Sony with Quality.

    1. Re:It surprises me. . . by NanoGator · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "For as many failed units that Sony throws out, it still amazes me when people associate the word Sony with Quality. "

      I worked at a video game retailer when the original Playstation was launched. From that Sept to just after XMAS, for every 100 PS's we sold, we got roughly 20-25 back defective. This was in the whole district, not just the store I was in. I can't imagine this was limited to just Kansas City.

      Funny thing is, people actually deny that the original PS had this many problems. Even our competitors bitched about it.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    2. Re:It surprises me. . . by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      I should have mentioned this in my previous post. Sometime after that Christmas, the defect rate went way down. It happened right about the time that the "boot with the door open" trick to play imports stopped working on newer units. I think Sony did something to improve the manufacturing.

      I'm sorry if my original post read like "All the PS's broke all the time.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    3. Re:It surprises me. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I worked in a videogame store in 98-99 and we hat a shit load of defective Playstaions too. Our defect rate only went up. Maybe all the bad Playstations just got shipped to Indiana...

  8. My personal PS2 timeline... by oprahwinfree · · Score: 0, Redundant

    ...began with me standing in line at Compusa around Christmas, in the cold, just to get be one of the lucky few allowed to make a purchase.

    Major market hype along with supply shortages created a lot of long lines that Christmas.

    1. Re:My personal PS2 timeline... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Lucky few?" To play what, Fantavision?

  9. What's more fun to hack with? by torpor · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If you were going to buy a console for the primary purpose of mucking about with it, programmatically, which one would you get?

    Does the Linux/PS2 port have a more 'fun' realm than the Linux/XBOX realm?

    I've considered getting a couple of gaming platforms, mostly for the hack value - I'd love to make an XBOX or PS2 a workable terminal in my house for various net-related things.

    Which system give best bang for the hacker buck, in your opinion?

    --
    ; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
    1. Re:What's more fun to hack with? by kisrael · · Score: 1

      If you were going to buy a console for the primary purpose of mucking about with it, programmatically, which one would you get?

      I think Dreamcast might be your best bet. Cheap, reasonably powerful 3D, 4 controllers, homebrew community, and you can (not 100% reliabely?) burn CDs for it.

      --
      SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
    2. Re:What's more fun to hack with? by kisrael · · Score: 1

      *shrug* It was kind of an after thought as he mentioned it, and the DC has a built-in modem. "net-related-things" != broadband required.

      --
      SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
    3. Re:What's more fun to hack with? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I e-mailed him privately and asked him about the requirements for his "net-related" activities and a modem will not suffice, son.

      Have you even done any research here? Do you know how well the DC modem is supported under DC-Linux? DO YOU???

      http://www.dc-linux.org might be a nice place for you to start, wise guy.

    4. Re:What's more fun to hack with? by kisrael · · Score: 1

      I e-mailed him privately and asked him about the requirements for his "net-related" activities and a modem will not suffice, son.
      Have you even done any research here? Do you know how well the DC modem is supported under DC-Linux? DO YOU???

      Like I said, coward, he mentioned it as more of an afterthought.

      Bully for you for taking such a proactive interest. I bow to your superior giving of a damn.

      --
      SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
  10. The worst grade imaginable: A minus, MINUS! by August_zero · · Score: 1

    PS2 is the Vanilla of the consoles; nothing all that special really, definitely weaker hardware-wise than its two main competitors. With great titles like "Fantavision" (that was sarcasm for you people having trouble keeping up) at launch, rumors of DVD driver corruption in Japan, and PS2 scarcity for the first six months after launch (less then half of the promised units shipped) it had a shaky launch, but that doesn't seem to have slowed it down.

    I think that Sony has really hit their stride this time; they have a huge library, some actually really good exclusive titles (Dark Cloud 2, Ratchet and Clank, et cetera) a few decent online games (SOCOM, Champions of Norath) and a solid representation of virtually every game genre. They have gone through this round seemingly never breaking a sweat while Nintendo and Microsoft have wrestled each other for a distant number 2 position. How bad can things be when people are fighting over #2 behind your #1?

    --
    On Wall Street they say "buy low, sell high" On the pad we say, "buy high, sell high" Isn't that somehow better?
  11. Agreed by August_zero · · Score: 3, Funny

    The PS2, and the forthcoming PS3 are the only Sony products I would ever buy for this reason exactly. For every Sony product I have bought over the years, only one of them still worked normally after about year and a half of purchase. I had to replace my Ps1, and I have already had to replace my PS2. Now one could write this off to bad luck, but of my half dozen gamer geek friends, 4 of them have had to replace their PS2s since launch.

    I have owned every Nintendo system (except the virtual boy) and have never had a single problem. My NES, purchased in 1989 still works (albeit with a little bit of fighting with the cartridge loading mechanism) And while My X-box did need to be replaced a few weeks ago, I am the only person I know that suffered such ill-fortune with it.

    Why do I still by Playstations? Um well I have this gaming problem and I can't help it. He doesn't hit me all the time...

    --
    On Wall Street they say "buy low, sell high" On the pad we say, "buy high, sell high" Isn't that somehow better?
  12. One word: Square by Lovebug2000 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One major gripe I have about both GC and Xbox is the definitive lack of RPG's. Sure GC has it's tried and true Zelda, but that was a late comer game, and Xbox titles concentrate far more on Sports/Action/Fighing genres than RPG. The most definitive company representing this is Squaresoft, who only of late are coming back to Nintendo with FFCC. Not only that, but through Sony, I can play not only FFX, but virtually every final fantasy game every created, as well as numerous other great classics that on lazy afternoons I feel like revisiting, and I only need one console to do this with. If you go nintendo, I need 4 different consoles to play games from wayback, or I need to go search for roms (which is a pain for N64).
    Now with the advent of Monolithsoft (breakoffs from Square) creating the Xenosaga series and furthering the Chrono line only for PS2, it seems that things are going to stay this way.
    XBox does great with American companies, and Nintendo does great with First party games, but the only console I've seen that mature 3rd party japanese game companies develope for is Sony's.
    It's the games that make the console, and in the RPG genre, Sony is the only real option. Until that changes, or my budget does, Sony is where I stay.

  13. The PS2 was a bit disappointing by JWhiton · · Score: 1

    When I got the PS2, I was looking forward to a lot more good games than what finally ended up happening. I had a lot of fun with FFX, MGS2, and Virtua Fighter 4 (bit of a surprise, that one) but those are the only games I really enjoyed. I thought Xenosaga would be awesome but it wasn't anywhere near as good as Xenogears. I was also looking forward to The Lost because it's developed by the same company that did System Shock 2, but it seems to have fallen off the face of the earth.

    I'm considering picking up a Cube now because I really wanna play Metroid Prime and Wind Waker. Say what you will about Nintendo's hardware policies, they definitely focus on having good games available.

  14. Expectations? by MMaestro · · Score: 0, Troll
    The PS2 lived up to my expectations. That is poorly.

    The hardware is a shoddy piece of crap which was sacrificed to make it backward compatable, which most likely saved it from totally crashing in the first year. Its line of third party developers put out crappy game after crappy game in the beginning since so much time and money was necessary to making a game that could run the PS2. The PS2 was supposed to cut down on load times (which everyone has been bitching about since the PS1 came out) but didn't. The heavy use and reliance on FMVs in games was also beginning to piss off gamers (*cough*MGS2*cough*) since the novelty wore off.

    All in all, a complete failure compared to the PS1. Sony can't/couldn't get away from the things that plagued the PS1 this time. Long load times, weak hardware, defective hardware, and poor graphics (FFX and FFX-2 don't count considering the amount of FMVs and time it took to make) were issues never solved. In fact, the PS2 is most like a update rather than an upgrade.

  15. I just bought a PS2 last week by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've had a gamecube since launch, but got a used PS2 when dark alliance ii was cancelled for it. I almost bought "Crystal Chronicles" instead... but the 2 GBA+2 link requirement for co-op in that game made that just as expensive as getting the new system. (Also I wasn't enamored with having to drain batteries to play gamecube.)

    It's nice to be able to play old Playstation games on the PS2.

    1. Re:I just bought a PS2 last week by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get GBA SPs, they are rechargable and the battery in those fuckers lasts at least 10 hours.

      You're not going to play FF:CC for more than 10 hours in a row are you?

    2. Re:I just bought a PS2 last week by M3wThr33 · · Score: 1

      Wow. I wish someone would buy me GBAs to play on their console.

      Did it ever occur to you to get people who ALREADY OWN GBAs to play with you?

  16. MOD PARENT DOWN by Acidic_Diarrhea · · Score: 0, Funny
    "It was the first console with "real" 3D hardware (after the Nintendo 64)"
    So it was the first after the first? Wouldn't that be the second?

    And I don't quite understand how you define real 3D hardware. I would consider the PSX to have real 3D hardware but I guess to you, it had imaginary 3D hardware. That 3D hardware, the imaginary stuff, was pretty decent at the time. Even the first generation games like Jumping Flash had some pretty decent 3D aspects to it. But the thing with imaginary 3D hardware is that you're not limited by any constraints so the sky is really the limit. I don't know why every company doesn't go with imaginary 3D hardware.

    Yeah, I'm joking here. But come on, what is real 3D hardware? I assume the AC is referring to real 3D hardware as being able to handle some X number of polygons per second or some such nonsense but making arbitrary high water marks like that where you distinguish between real 3D hardware and toy 3D hardware is silly. I can understand a phrase like "dedicated 3D hardware" but not "real 3D hardware."

    --
    I hate liberals. If you are a liberal, do not reply.
  17. Grand Theft Auto? by metroid+composite · · Score: 1
    Funny, I got the impression that there was a lot more interest in Final Fantasy, and when it comes right down to it, more interest in games from "lesser systems" even.

    Don't get me wrong, I know a few people who were enraptured by GTA, but I honestly think this article is overplaying its importance. I know several PS2 owners, and not many who actually own GTA3 or GTA:VC.

    1. Re:Grand Theft Auto? by ShadowzCGY · · Score: 1

      i own a ps2 and vice city what u mean by that people dont own gta or gta vice city i know many of my other firends that play that still its a fun game such as u can stealt hings u could not ever do and go into buildings its moreof a game u can explore and stuff i love it. i jsut cant wait till they come out with gta 5 or gta: sin city it is called.

    2. Re:Grand Theft Auto? by dhamsaic · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think it's difficult to overstate the importance GTA3 had for the PS2. It came totally out of left field to take the world by storm. It reportedly sold over four million copies on pre-order alone and by the time Vice Ciy was announced in May 2002, GTA3 had sold over six million copies. That was about six months after the game launched, for an average of a million units a month.

      I'm at work and can't look up all the numbers, but now that it's on the Greatest Hits line and thus has enjoyed the $30 price cut, I'm sure it's enjoying strong sales to this day.

      I know at least half a dozen people that bought a PS2 just to play GTA3 - myself included. Sure, I bought other games later, but GTA3 is definitely a system mover.

      Why do you think Sony was paying Rockstar/Take Two the big bucks to keep it off the Xbox? GTA is a great exclusive to have because it sells systems.

      Again, it's extremely difficult to overstate the importance of GTA3 to the PS2.

      --
      Every once in a while I like to masturbate a new word into my vocabulary, even if I don't know what it means.
    3. Re:Grand Theft Auto? by cbirdsong64 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, until I saw GTA3, I really didn't want a PS2. I had seen a few games I wanted to play, like Devil May Cry or MGS2, but GTA3 is what sold me.

    4. Re:Grand Theft Auto? by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      ummmm.

      You are using a site for harder core gamers (hard enough core to use the internet to find out about games), that own computers, have internet access.

      I know a lot of PS2 owners with no computer, and a lot of people that play games on PS2's and only use computers for researching and typing papers.

      I bet a general population vote would see strong representation from sports games that is not shown there.

      I bet less then 30% of console owners are even familier with the WindWaker.

      GTAIII was incredibly iportant for the PS2. It came out as system prices dropped enough that more people were looking at getting them. GTA was a cultural phenomanen and people got PS2s because they didn't want to get left out. Even if they ended up not playing or getting the game.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
  18. New System RPG's by Plasm69 · · Score: 1

    I am very disappointed in all of the newest RPG's...they are all graphics and no story. This is very very sad. I am more likely to play any Final Fantasy on NES and SNES then the new ones...i do not care what new system it is...the last good one that was produced was FF7...that is the newest one i would play as eversince that it has been a complete focus on graphics...however an RPG needs what many new ones are missing...A STORY LINE

    1. Re:New System RPG's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you said it dude.

    2. Re:New System RPG's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok....

      I fail to see how FF7's storyline is any better than FFX's, I do however see how your post could benefit from proper punctuation and spacing. The last FF that had a really deep in depth story line was 9 and prior to that 6(and 6 still has the deepest storyline).

      7? 7 has got to be the most overrated RPG of all time. We liked it because it was such a drastic graphical improvement over the previous ones, not because it had incredibly system/storyline improvements.

    3. Re:New System RPG's by Mitleid · · Score: 1

      Not to be antagonistic or anything, but FFI had horrible cookie cutter story line. It's fun to play for it's merit as a groundbreaking RPG for its time, but to compare its story to the complexity of even some of the weaker storylines of modern RPGs just sounds sort of foolish. Even the recent FF Origins collection did little to improve the story structure of the first NES FF games.

      I think I understand what you are saying about modern RPG storylines, and I agree entirely. Too much is concentrated on feature-set and graphics, with very little substance in regards to story to carry the snazzy technical aspects.

      --

      --
      Is it me, or did it just get fatter in here?
    4. Re:New System RPG's by Plasm69 · · Score: 1

      First and foremost, FF7 was the last one worth playing...second...9 sucked cock...third...we are on the bloody internet...PUNCTUATION DOES NOT F***ING MATTER!!!!!!!!! ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH

  19. Expectations? How about not self destructing. by BruceTheBruce · · Score: 1

    Mine did very poorly at meeting my expectations for surviving until the next generation. It started dying a slow death a few weeks back (freezing up after playing for a while), which is apparently not uncommon. I took it to a game shop that buys back consoles and will use what I got back to subsidize my purchase of...another PS2. *hangs head in shame* While I despise the lack of quality of Sony's products I still have to play those exclusive titles. My PS1 died an early death too, but wasn't expensive to replace since they'd been out for years. I guess Sony's counting on this built in self destruction mechanism to sell more consoles for the foreseeable future. From what friends in the same boat have told me, the drives go out. I can actually understand mechanisms with moving parts failing after n hours of use, and my PS2 was a model 30001, from the first batch sold in North America. I just feel like as long as CD drives have been around they should know how to make them last longer than three years.

  20. Gran Turismo S-Spec? by stephenisu · · Score: 1

    according to article there is some kind of Gran Turismo S-Spec...

    IT'S A-SPEC!!!!

    --
    Sigs? We don't need no stinking sigs!
  21. I have a PS2 and an XBox by jbellis · · Score: 1

    I play almost exclusively RPG and adventure games and if I were to buy just one console now, in 2004, I would go with the xbox. KotOR is just soooo amazingly good. Then you have Shenmue 2 and Syberia at bargain prices, plus some others (Beyond Good and Evil) that are available for both platforms. And maybe Fable really will be the "best rpg ever" if it's ever actually released. :)

    I do intend to get Xenosaga for PS2 when I get bored of KotOR but that won't be for quite some time. :)

  22. Re:XBox rules!! by M3wThr33 · · Score: 0, Troll

    They're made in Mexico.

  23. I dont own one.. by Lemental · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Never had. So, my expectations herein are solely based on where I work, a game store.

    Sony, by far is the poor mans system. There are more poor people who buy this thing and its games. Why do I know they are poor? They never buy the new games, always the cheap 2 year old useed ones, or once in a while a greatest hits.

    This leads me to beleive that it was marketing, not games and a quality system that drive the system today. Studies have shown that the lower economic class watch more TV. Sony has lots of TV ads and thus, marketing blitzes the poor to death.

    It may have started out as a Rich system, primarily because of its huge price tag, but, I see more of the poor buying it now.

    Also, I would never buy an old used PS/2 I would buy the new + version, we simply get too many used PS2's back after selling them in trade. We also get 5-10 people a month asking if we repair the things. We have only had 6 broken XBox and 3 Broken Gamecube the 6 Months I have worked at the store I work at. I stopeed counting the broken PS2's at 50.

    So, in short, no, I dont think they lived up to expectations. I dont own one, but from a retail standpoint, they are hell to deal with.

  24. no mention of gameplay here.... by kilauea · · Score: 1

    Well I own an Xbox, DC (JAP), Saturn(JAP) and had a GC till recently. And what do I play most? PS2 by a mile. Yes the graphics aren't that hot next to the Xbox and GC, but neither are the saturns and there are some great games on that system.
    Fact is, it has the best controllers, gives the widest choice of games, has some great exclusive titles and by far the biggest back catalogue of games available anywhere (as they had the good sense to make it backward compatible - something all Nintendo consoles and the new xbox are not).

    1. Re:no mention of gameplay here.... by kilauea · · Score: 1

      Gameboy is not a competitor to the ps2 so I would guess out of scope of this thread.

      Yes the GC is the first optical disc based system but that didn't stop them making 3 non-compatible cartidge based systems before it.

      The xbox I was referring to is the Xbox 2 to be released next year using a completely different architecture to the current xbox.

      can I clear anything else up?

  25. Almost perfect by superpulpsicle · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The article was outstanding, except it labeled PS2 as the best system of all time.

    PS2 is the best system today but it hasn't destroyed its competitor the way NES did. Xbox and GC are still standing.

    IMHO NES 8-bit is forever the most dominant monopoly the video game industry will ever see.

  26. POS 2 by ZephyrXero · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Ok, I'm sure I'm the 800th person to say this, but the PS2 has been a huge dissapointment ever since it's initial release. I worked at an EB from Jan 2000 - May 2002, so I saw the launch of all 3 systems and can vouch for alot of stuff that happened. Out of the few PS2's we got (although our store got the most in our district) at least 1 in 10 came back defective within a month. Then when they released the 2nd version about 6 months later it slowed to about 1 in 20. I'm sure it's much better now, but what were they thinking!? 1 in 10 consoles not working but maybe a month? How could they release such a faulty piece of hardware? Not only that, but I was a big Dreamcast supporter at the time and saw many people come in and want a PS2 purely for namesake, not actually for quality. Any of the real gamers that would come in the store and owned both said they never used their ps2 except to watch DVDs and then some of them wouldn't even work on it. Not only that but with it's weird architecture it's the hardest of the 3 consoles to develop for...that's the same reason the Saturn failed, but obviously Sony had enough financial pull to convince developers to work on it anyway. Then when the Xbox and GC came out people kept buying PS2s like they were selling 'em for $20 or something. I would point out to my customers that the PS2 was a flawed machine and severely outmatched by both the GC and the Xbox and they would still buy it simply b/c of the Playstation name. I can not believe how stupid so many people are. Well, now PS2 has some good games finally, but 99.9% of them are out on Xbox and GC too. The ONLY game PS2 has that I need is FFX...so I guess I may break down and buy one after they go to $99. As for now, my Xbox and GC are kicking ass in it's place.

    --
    "A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."
    1. Re:POS 2 by ZephyrXero · · Score: 1

      sorry for it not spacing correctly....this was my first /. comment.

      --
      "A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."
  27. Nice try, troll boy by skyknytnowhere · · Score: 1

    Except he misses the point entirely, as do you, apparently. When X states "hardware is better" and you say "Graphics are worse" you've got a classic Apples vs. Oranges situation. Saying "WELL I REALLY LIKE ORANGES!" doesn't help prove "These apples are better than those apples" argument.

    skye

    1. Re:Nice try, troll boy by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 1

      "When X states "hardware is better" and you say "Graphics are worse" you've got a classic Apples vs. Oranges situation. "

      No, I don't think so. It's not as simple as that by a long shot. This isn't a Mac vs. PC style thing where one does some things better than the other. (And vice versa.) The conversation was about the graphic power of all three machines and how it relates to playing the same games. The Playstation 2 is underpowered in comparison to the GameCube and the XBOX. If it has advantages in particular areas, fine, but the end result has not improved.

      If we were talking about the various controllers of each system, well then, you'd be absolutely right.

  28. I generally like my Ps2 by PotatoHead · · Score: 1

    ...once I got a good one.

    I was one of those that just *had* to have one at launch time. Big mistake. It was a flaky unit.

    The first machine lasted about a year or so. I did not replace it right away because I was busy at the time.

    The second one has been flawless for quite a while now.

    The graphics shortcomings really do not matter much to me because the display is easily good enough to enjoy the game. I know the hardware is capable, but it is a bear to program.

    In this way, the PS2 is a lot like the old Atari 2600. For this reason, I expect a nice long life on the machine. --The smarter you are, the better the display can be. Is this better than systems with less flexible hardware, but easier programming interfaces? Early on, its a clear disadvantage, but later in the lifecycle, its a bonus, provided the developers actually *do* get more out of the machine. In the case of the PS2, the number of units out there is incentive enough to make this the case.

    The Sony hardware is better than the Microsoft hardware. Better controllers, smaller design, nice video output. DVD playback through the component cables is very good. You can use a keyboard and mouse with PS2, and you can run Linux. (An older Linux, with limitations, but Linux!) Being able to program the machine means an even more extended life because the home-brew people *will* eventually manage to produce their own games. This does not matter today, but it will some time from now.

    Load times are not quite what I would like to see, but reasonable. The dynamic nature of the hardware means heavy load on the drive. This bothers me a bit becuase I know it will wear. Memory cards are great, but a bit expensive. I like card saves because they are portable, where a hard drive save is not.

    PS2 has enough games that appeal to me, so that area is covered. Being able to run older PS1 games is a nice bonus as well. I find the younger kids do better with the older games, because they are less complex. (Nester DC, running on Dreamcast gets a lot of playtime in my house.)

    Online play is not quite what it could be, but being able to use either broadband, or modem is nice. Lots of people still use modems.

    Brother in law has an Xbox. It is clearly the more powerful machine, but suffers in a couple of areas; namely, extra cost for DVD playback, controllers, no mouse support, size, game library (though this is slowly changing).

    Did the PS2 meet my expectations. Yes, and there is more to see yet.

    Sony has gotten enough right for two consoles in a row now to make me have little reason not to purchase a PS3. I will wait until a bit after launch though.

    --
    Blogging because I can...
  29. Re:I'm calling BS. by sw33tjimmy · · Score: 0

    You're trying to tell us that the same engineers that designed the chip don't know how to use it? I'll admit that I know pretty much nothing about IC engineering, but this excuse has always made me scratch my head.

    It sounds like typical Sony PR crap. "Eh... our chip is infinately faster than the competition... in fact it's so advanced nobody knows how to utilize it!!!"

    --
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