Whose excited. I was in agreement with you about trying to compare a modified camaro to a stock wrx. That's not fair.
The suspension upgrades I mentioned are/were available from the factory, so I do consider them stock. There were two levels above the comfort zone. You can go way over the top with aftermarket, but I wasn't talking about that.
Personally, I rate the wrx as thee sport compact car. It's the poster child for a small engine ( turbo ) in a smaller car, awd and all. No one can deny the performance. I stand by my assessment that those two cars are very comparable, except the SS gets a little bit better fuel mileage 19/28mpg, which is due to those really long gears!!! At WOT the 1-2 shift is at 50mph. That's why the first aftermarket upgrade is lower gears.
BTW the 2001 and 2002 SS models have very different performance data. My car (2002) is completely untouched from the factory...for now.
Camaro Z28 did 0-60 in 5.3 seconds. Camaro SS did it in... well, 5.3 second since there is like 10 HP difference.
Not in 2002. Stock Z28=310hp, SS had three options -- 320, 335, and 345hp. 2002 Z28's were under 5s because Chevy put in 3.42 gears in that year. Previous years had less gear. The other problem is that Camaro's and Covettes had identical performance numbers ( like you said, they have the same powertrain ) so Chevy would "rate" the Camaro with lower HP numbers and performance data.
...The SS will completely slaughter the STi in the quarter mile...
Not true, they are almost identical from a standstill. Both run low 13's. Those oddball specs we don't pay much attention to like 30-70 reveal the difference between a turbo 4 and a V8
The WRX STi WR1 will beat the SS -- 0-60 ~4.25 and 1/4 mile 12.80. Of course we'll probably never see this race since those cars aren't sold in the same country ( I think ).
You must be talking about the WRX - the STi goes up to about 145-150. Some of the 2004s are rumoured to have a speed limiter at about 145, but not all
Then they are comparable on that measure as well.
I think my car (MR2) does about that standard. With its suspension upgrade and some tuning, it can hit about 1.4.
First thing, the mr2 is really small, nimble and light, handling is almost a given in that car.
Second, that last time I drive one of those cars ( second gen ) I was pissing blood for a week. Rough ride!!!
Third, we weren't comparing anything to that car.
We talk about numbers a lot and compare small differences sometimes as if they make any real world difference. ie the difference between 4.6 and 4.8 0-60 is really hard to tell without a stopwatch. Now factor in the varying driver skills and those numbers can even out quickly. With a few aftermarket upgrades, my car can see 1.5-1.7g's. But then again if we start talking about aftermarket upgrades, we can make any car really fast, handle like it's on rails, and the most forgotten upgrade--stop on a dime!!!
Get your facts right. The STI is ~4.8 0-60 not 4.3. It just so happens that the 2002 Camaro SS with the 345hp option goes 4.6 0-60 and 13.0 1/4 mile. ( I have one). Older Z28 cars were closer to 5.5 0-60. You'll find that the STI and SS are comparable in performance except top end because the STI stops ~130mph where the SS stops at 160mph. The SS is also geared way to high. I shift into second at 52mph. The SS also had two suspension upgrades (stock), the top upgrade provides a lateral 1g in the skidpad. So the handling is comparable as well. Rice boys need to understand that they don't have the market cornered on handling.
let's talk about a replacement turbocharger for the WRX.. and then let's compare engine reliability and performance of these two
I don't compare modified cars, especially when one has a turbo/blower and one doesn't. You have to compare apples to apples. You'll also be very surprised at how reliable the Chevy small block is. There is a reason it's still around. Oh yeah, the EPA says 19mpg/28mpg for my SS with a 5.7 liter V8.
Just for some insight, a stock bore LS1 engine can easily make 500Bhp with a new cam and some ported heads for less than $3000. Unlike older small blocks, this engine is very tame at 500 horses and VERY streetable.
What's the big deal? So the FBI wants my personal info? Go ahead take it. Study it. Just don't clone me. I don't have anything to hide. I'm no criminal. The FBI can find all the information they want about me in a variety of ways. That is why they call it an investigation. This doesn't violate my civil liberties. If they use the information in a malitious manner, then they violate me and my liberties. So why is this such a problem? Personally I find a sense of patriotism in letting them investigate me to find out that I'm not a terrorist nor a criminal.
I always wonder about those liberals who try to hide things. It makes me nervous...
Just as nervous as conservatives who try to legislate morality and decency.
We need a third party!!!!!
But you have to admit mechanically speaking new cars are much more reliable than old ones...
No I wouldn't. Mechanically there is not much difference between today's engines and engines from 30 years ago. Not much in suspension or brakes either.
It's the electronics that have made the cars more complicated and just as unreliable. When a carb is acting up, it can be very consistently bad. When an ECM acts up, it can be very erratic/intermittent. Works fine mostly except Tuesdays at 4:30 when your dog has to be walked and the Planets are in harmonic convergence.
Complicated doesn't also mean difficult either. For the techies on this site, I would think more electronics on a car would be a welcome addition.
I must be new. I can't figure out from the article who moved to India. Is freshmeat in India or something? Is it that India is not abiding by the C&D filed by Apple?
I remember only a year or two ago window 98 was s still $180. It was sitting next to windows XP on the shelf which was $200. I had hoped that it would have gone down in price since two major releases had come out. I only wanted it so I could run WINE. It's not like Bill and MS really needed my $180 compared to the billions they have in petty cash.
convincing a victim to view an HTML document such as a web page
This sounds bad. I know we've convinced users to not open attachments such as.vbs files and the like. But now we have to somehow tell them not to open.htm(l) files as well?
Didn't MS get into trouble before when disclosing security holes? Now everyone who is interested knows exactly how to get in the door. No?
Whatever the reason really is, this is why I like my linux and Mac computers. I don't have to deal with this problem.
It might be an old system, and it may take a year or two but if you try and cheat them they'll always find you. That system must be doing something right.
Venting compressed air to the atmosphere on the intake side is quite different from exhaust gasses bypassing a turbine.
I didn't think we were debating that. I made the point that blowers and turbos were similar, you disagreed.
A compressor map is a graph that you look at to see relative properties of a compressor wheel and has nothing to do with engine control modules.
The compressor map helps you understand the characteristics of the intake charge. ie helps you tune the car
...because you want to over-simplify things and I don't.
You are the one who jumped all over me when I said I make a mistake. So what if I generalized. The original post was only meant to simplify a technical system to someone who apparently is not very car savvy
And yes C&D sucks... They pick the same damn cars every year for their top 10. Finally something we agree on. I'll leave you alone now.
So... turbo: forces air into the engine blower: forces air into the engine turbo: limits boost via a valve blower: limits boost via a valve
and the major difference i mentioned.. turbo: spun by exhaust gas blower: spun by a pulley
Doesn't sound like much of a difference. air/fuel maps are vastly different between all engines even two different turbo engines. I didn't say anything about tuning them.
I'm I getting through? You're the type of person that if I said gasoline was flammable, you'd probably rant for three paragraphs about how that "was incorrect" and that only the vapors are flammable.
I've seen your species before. BENCH RACER!!! Go read car and driver or something.
I realize it came out wrong. I should have used quotes instead of asterisks.
But as far as the path of incoming air is concerned, the turbo comes before the throttle, no?
Personally I prefer a screw type blower, but a centrifugal blower is nothing more than a belt driven turbo. You don't agree the difference is small? ie. the belt instead of the turbine...
They're all valves. The difference is where the valve is on the intake system. The valve in the turbo *before* the throttle - wastegate. The valve after the throttle ( in the manifold ) bypass. The bypass valve helps alleviate the "parasitic" effect while cruising ( keeps the manifold pressure under control ) not all systems have this valve. The wastegate maintains the turbo's internal pressure and impeller shaft speed I don't know of any turbo that doesn't have this valve. End result: I should have said wastegate to be clear.
All things equal...I'd rather be blown!!!! There I said it, I'm not ashamed.
Newer cars have electronic blow off valves. These valves control how much pressure can build up in the intake manifold. If the valve is controlled by the computer, the MAP ( manifold absolute pressure) sensor can determine just how much pressure is considered within parameters. Aftermarket computers and "chipped" computers change the parameters so that the higher boost pressures are considered normal. Thereby making more power.
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Whose excited. I was in agreement with you about trying to compare a modified camaro to a stock wrx. That's not fair. The suspension upgrades I mentioned are/were available from the factory, so I do consider them stock. There were two levels above the comfort zone. You can go way over the top with aftermarket, but I wasn't talking about that. Personally, I rate the wrx as thee sport compact car. It's the poster child for a small engine ( turbo ) in a smaller car, awd and all. No one can deny the performance. I stand by my assessment that those two cars are very comparable, except the SS gets a little bit better fuel mileage 19/28mpg, which is due to those really long gears!!! At WOT the 1-2 shift is at 50mph. That's why the first aftermarket upgrade is lower gears. BTW the 2001 and 2002 SS models have very different performance data. My car (2002) is completely untouched from the factory...for now.
Camaro Z28 did 0-60 in 5.3 seconds. Camaro SS did it in... well, 5.3 second since there is like 10 HP difference.
Not in 2002. Stock Z28=310hp, SS had three options -- 320, 335, and 345hp. 2002 Z28's were under 5s because Chevy put in 3.42 gears in that year. Previous years had less gear. The other problem is that Camaro's and Covettes had identical performance numbers ( like you said, they have the same powertrain ) so Chevy would "rate" the Camaro with lower HP numbers and performance data.
Not true, they are almost identical from a standstill. Both run low 13's. Those oddball specs we don't pay much attention to like 30-70 reveal the difference between a turbo 4 and a V8
The WRX STi WR1 will beat the SS -- 0-60 ~4.25 and 1/4 mile 12.80. Of course we'll probably never see this race since those cars aren't sold in the same country ( I think ).
You must be talking about the WRX - the STi goes up to about 145-150. Some of the 2004s are rumoured to have a speed limiter at about 145, but not all
Then they are comparable on that measure as well.
I think my car (MR2) does about that standard. With its suspension upgrade and some tuning, it can hit about 1.4.
First thing, the mr2 is really small, nimble and light, handling is almost a given in that car. Second, that last time I drive one of those cars ( second gen ) I was pissing blood for a week. Rough ride!!! Third, we weren't comparing anything to that car.
We talk about numbers a lot and compare small differences sometimes as if they make any real world difference. ie the difference between 4.6 and 4.8 0-60 is really hard to tell without a stopwatch. Now factor in the varying driver skills and those numbers can even out quickly. With a few aftermarket upgrades, my car can see 1.5-1.7g's. But then again if we start talking about aftermarket upgrades, we can make any car really fast, handle like it's on rails, and the most forgotten upgrade--stop on a dime!!!
Get your facts right. The STI is ~4.8 0-60 not 4.3. It just so happens that the 2002 Camaro SS with the 345hp option goes 4.6 0-60 and 13.0 1/4 mile. ( I have one). Older Z28 cars were closer to 5.5 0-60. You'll find that the STI and SS are comparable in performance except top end because the STI stops ~130mph where the SS stops at 160mph. The SS is also geared way to high. I shift into second at 52mph. The SS also had two suspension upgrades (stock), the top upgrade provides a lateral 1g in the skidpad. So the handling is comparable as well. Rice boys need to understand that they don't have the market cornered on handling.
let's talk about a replacement turbocharger for the WRX.. and then let's compare engine reliability and performance of these two
I don't compare modified cars, especially when one has a turbo/blower and one doesn't. You have to compare apples to apples. You'll also be very surprised at how reliable the Chevy small block is. There is a reason it's still around. Oh yeah, the EPA says 19mpg/28mpg for my SS with a 5.7 liter V8.
Just for some insight, a stock bore LS1 engine can easily make 500Bhp with a new cam and some ported heads for less than $3000. Unlike older small blocks, this engine is very tame at 500 horses and VERY streetable.What's the big deal? So the FBI wants my personal info? Go ahead take it. Study it. Just don't clone me. I don't have anything to hide. I'm no criminal. The FBI can find all the information they want about me in a variety of ways. That is why they call it an investigation. This doesn't violate my civil liberties. If they use the information in a malitious manner, then they violate me and my liberties. So why is this such a problem? Personally I find a sense of patriotism in letting them investigate me to find out that I'm not a terrorist nor a criminal.
I always wonder about those liberals who try to hide things. It makes me nervous... Just as nervous as conservatives who try to legislate morality and decency. We need a third party!!!!!
No I wouldn't. Mechanically there is not much difference between today's engines and engines from 30 years ago. Not much in suspension or brakes either.
It's the electronics that have made the cars more complicated and just as unreliable. When a carb is acting up, it can be very consistently bad. When an ECM acts up, it can be very erratic/intermittent. Works fine mostly except Tuesdays at 4:30 when your dog has to be walked and the Planets are in harmonic convergence.
Complicated doesn't also mean difficult either. For the techies on this site, I would think more electronics on a car would be a welcome addition.
errr... why does Ford need such a strong mount for such a weak part?
I know this is off topic, but I don't know where else to ask... What is Karma whoring?
And in case I'm doing it right now, please keep your dogma away from my karma.
I must be new. I can't figure out from the article who moved to India. Is freshmeat in India or something? Is it that India is not abiding by the C&D filed by Apple?
1.21 jigawatts!!!!
I remember only a year or two ago window 98 was s still $180. It was sitting next to windows XP on the shelf which was $200. I had hoped that it would have gone down in price since two major releases had come out. I only wanted it so I could run WINE. It's not like Bill and MS really needed my $180 compared to the billions they have in petty cash.
Needless to say, I left it on the shelf.
This sounds bad. I know we've convinced users to not open attachments such as .vbs files and the like. But now we have to somehow tell them not to open .htm(l) files as well?
Didn't MS get into trouble before when disclosing security holes? Now everyone who is interested knows exactly how to get in the door. No?
Whatever the reason really is, this is why I like my linux and Mac computers. I don't have to deal with this problem.
That makes me think of people running through the streets screaming GODZILLA!!!
It might be an old system, and it may take a year or two but if you try and cheat them they'll always find you. That system must be doing something right.
IBM buying an Indian outsourcing firm hurts my head. So who is outsourcing who? or is it whom?
I didn't think we were debating that. I made the point that blowers and turbos were similar, you disagreed.
A compressor map is a graph that you look at to see relative properties of a compressor wheel and has nothing to do with engine control modules.The compressor map helps you understand the characteristics of the intake charge. ie helps you tune the car
You are the one who jumped all over me when I said I make a mistake. So what if I generalized. The original post was only meant to simplify a technical system to someone who apparently is not very car savvy
And yes C&D sucks... They pick the same damn cars every year for their top 10. Finally something we agree on. I'll leave you alone now.
So...
turbo: forces air into the engine
blower: forces air into the engine
turbo: limits boost via a valve
blower: limits boost via a valve
and the major difference i mentioned..
turbo: spun by exhaust gas
blower: spun by a pulley
Doesn't sound like much of a difference.
air/fuel maps are vastly different between all engines even two different turbo engines. I didn't say anything about tuning them.
I'm I getting through?
You're the type of person that if I said gasoline was flammable, you'd probably rant for three paragraphs about how that "was incorrect" and that only the vapors are flammable.
I've seen your species before. BENCH RACER!!!
Go read car and driver or something.
a-ha I see...Good point.
picky picky...
I realize it came out wrong. I should have used quotes instead of asterisks.
But as far as the path of incoming air is concerned, the turbo comes before the throttle, no?
Personally I prefer a screw type blower, but a centrifugal blower is nothing more than a belt driven turbo. You don't agree the difference is small? ie. the belt instead of the turbine...
Since when do software "testers" look at code?
Please read again. I said the wastegate was in *IN* the turbo. As for shaft speed...Maintains limits...just splittin' hairs.
What you said is correct. I admit I was thinking of a supercharger not a turbo, small difference.
They're all valves. The difference is where the valve is on the intake system. The valve in the turbo *before* the throttle - wastegate. The valve after the throttle ( in the manifold ) bypass. The bypass valve helps alleviate the "parasitic" effect while cruising ( keeps the manifold pressure under control ) not all systems have this valve. The wastegate maintains the turbo's internal pressure and impeller shaft speed I don't know of any turbo that doesn't have this valve.
End result: I should have said wastegate to be clear.
All things equal...I'd rather be blown!!!!
There I said it, I'm not ashamed.
so the vacuum tank is more or less used as a buffer/regulator?
Is this just the Audi/VW setup, or do other manufacturers use this system as well?
then the computer doesn't control them...
Not a stupid question...
Newer cars have electronic blow off valves. These valves control how much pressure can build up in the intake manifold. If the valve is controlled by the computer, the MAP ( manifold absolute pressure) sensor can determine just how much pressure is considered within parameters. Aftermarket computers and "chipped" computers change the parameters so that the higher boost pressures are considered normal. Thereby making more power.