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Hack Your Ride
LukePieStalker writes "Monday's Boston Globe has a story on the global market for car chippers. The article describes a global subculture of "drivers who reprogram their vehicles and the companies that keep them supplied with high-performance software and silicon chips".
One nice hack: a car chipped-up for the race track can be set back to factory specs for the street simply by pushing the cruise control button."
And the coming of warmer weather is bringing in a new wave of customers to KTR, which was originally owned by Boston rocker J. Geils.
For some reason, I find that incredibly cool.
Maybe the whole purpose of these new mod chips is so drivers can make back-up copies of their cars in case they crash.
Sorry, I'll leave now.
He took a duck to the face at 250 knots.
Um, so can we get the cars to play "freeze frame" now?
And what do you do when you want "normal" cruise control?
... doesn't use chips you insensitive clod! (actually, it can run without any fuses installed as well...)
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
They aren't really chips anymore. The "firmware" can be revised but this is getting more and more complex. Short of reverse engineering the electrical system and creating a replacement ECU, it may not be possible to do this in the near future.
There's actually a large market for programmable PnP ECUs out there.
Life is the leading cause of death in America.
We've been doing this for years. What's so special about custom chips? They've existed since cars come with electronic engine control systems.
cruise control, eh
Having owned a car with this capability in the past, I can provide some insight. The chip supplier installs 2 or more "programs" that you can switch between (stock, chipped, valet, and race gas are some of the more common programs). To switch between programs you hold down your cruise control and after a few second a light will flash on your dash X number of times letting you know which program you're switching to.
In short, your cruise control works just fine with the switchable programs.
If the RIAA gets its way, it may actually become necessary to get your car mod chipped to play bootleg CDs :D
That "nice hack" is more than just a cute little feature, it is required to pass your emissions inspection if you happen to live in places like the NE and the west coast. This is not to be confused with the saftey inspection that most states do, wlthough the emissions inspection almost always occurs at the same time.
Who are you? The new #2 Who is #1? You are #617565. I am not a number, I am a free man! Muhahaha.
How long before we can wi-fi-cluster cars, and let the network arrange speed and routing through congested urban areas?
I want the future now!
Han: That chip goes there and that chip goes there!
Chewie: *Bwaaaaarrraaugh* (translation: Stuff it, honky.)
I also reply below your current threshold.
According to the article, mod chip have two categories:
:) demand 91 octane anyway, but that's due to engine compression issues. You don't need a chip to take advantage of premium fuel, just a good OEM computer.
Normally aspirated: Add a small bit of horsepower (normally less than you can feel in a double blind test) and lose significant mielage.
Turbocharged: turn up the boost, wear out the engine in a hurry.
What the article doesn't point out is that over-boosting your engine will cause it to wear out in a hurry. The engines in today's cars are built to handle a specific amount of power, and when the power is increased the wear on components is exponentially increased.
For those curious, our head engineer tells me that there is a cubic relation between engine RPM's and stress. Stress causes wear, and that's not a linear only relationship either.
When stress exceeds a certain value, BANG + expensive crunching noises happen.
----
Back in the good old days, re-chipping your ride could actually help (though not always). However, as the engineers learned more and more, the cars got better and better. Also bear in mind, performance is very important nowadays. The factory is getting all the performance it can out of tuning cars, while keeping mielage and wear in check. Also remember that these engines were designed for performance from word one.
The only reason to start reprogramming the engine controls is when significant hardware changes have been made.
As to the "Premium Fuel" thing, I'm doubtful, since all engines i've ever worked with use knock sensors, and are always running at the ragged edge of detonation anyway. There's quite a bit more involved than just fuel octane. Different formulations of fuel from different gas companies burn differently (gas is actually about ~40 or so chemicals in a cocktail). Altitude, engine temperature, air temperature, humidity, air filter cleanliness, RPM, engine load, and spark plugs all play important roles in detonation.
Consequently, the chips are continually adjusting for all that. Supposed octane levels are just one more factor. Granted, some cars, like the Acrua NSX
Like our head engineers always says: It takes a lot of work to outsmart factory engineers. And several million dollars.
********* sig: If you don't like the law, get filthy stinking rich, and buy a better one.
Suping up cars is old news. Even doing it with chips. But there are some cool things...
You can get an add on kit for a truck that connects up to the sensor inputs to the engine and has a console in the car. It allows you to adjust settings on the fly but telling the sensors certain things. You can run a 12 second quarter or double your torque with the push of a button.
There is a device you can by for any modern car that connects up to the adapter onder the drivers side. It allows you to reprogram the on board computer based on what you want the car to do. It also stors the default program if you ever want to revert back.
Evolution or ID?
I'm waiting for one that puts a usb port on it so I can connect the laptop and make alterations on the fly. How about having a bunch of different settings saved so that I can switch between them easily?
;-)
If you're a hardcore racer, you could have optimised settings for different humidity/temperature conditions, switchable at the touch of a key. Maybe save a set of baseline settings for each race locale and modify for the conditions on race day.
We could be about to regain the tuning freedom that went away when cars switched from carburetors to fuel injection. Everyone can benefit from this, even if you don't race. Most cars today are comprimised for green emissions, even if you live somewhere without smog tests. With a little retuning, you can have more power AND better fuel economy. (Ohh, look out for flames from the green set
Seriously. It's flashing "Overspeed warning off" at me. But some days it says "Warning engine overheating" just as the car starts on a cold day. Or, "Immobilizer!!" when I try to start it. Then it occasionally acts normal, but switches the display from km/l to km-left-to-pump to average driving speed, randomly.
Perhaps it's because it's a French car and takes itself too seriously.
Anyhow, I'm now going to look for someone who can rechip it and give it a new personality, something a little less brie and baguette, more Yvette Lopez, "where d'ya wanna go today?"
Ceci n'est pas une signature
... so, it's not long before I have a taxi cab that turns into a giant robot with the voice of Casey Kasem at the touch of a button? I have been waiting for this day for so long.
*AppleTRON*
I'll hack something right up until the point where my personal body is in jeopardy.
Medical instruments? Factory spec is good enough for me. Microwave? I like to keep the RADs down. Cars? I like arriving in one piece.
I can understand this as a hobby, but why mod your day-to-day car so heavily? You probably break several laws in doing so, you definitely invalidate your car lease or warranty, and you probably invalidate your insurance as well. Besides, how confident are you that you'd never screw up?
I'll take the bus thank you.
John Maynard Keynes: "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?"
Gotta love Michigan where we don't have those pesky inspections. Modup your cars Michiganders.
Evolution or ID?
I thought a 'car chipper' would be something like a wood chipper, only *much* more ferocious.
Ah well.
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
My mechanic hacked my car so the left blinker blinks faster than the right. He also put in that hanging wire below the dashboard hack.
Take Andy Robinson's doorslammer Stude for example.
___FutureShoks___
Marketing, false claims, hype...
Some cars react very well to them. Many cars don't.
And if you get the wrong programming, you can ruin your car.
When they claim 50hp you might only get 15. YMMV. Literally.
I'm currently involved in writing assembly for my car's ECU. It's a 92 DSM Turbo AWD. The difficult thing is it's a proprietary OEM variant of a Motorola HC11, with lots of unknown opcodes, but there's a good movement to try and figure them all out. Right now, I've written a stutterbox, and other people have figured out where all of the timing, and fuel maps are, and where the variables for injector sizes are. It's pretty great. Writing assembly is fun, and ha>0ring my car is even more fun :)
-Jesse
Nothing says "unprofessional job" like wrinkles in your duct tape.
Just bring me a car load of "Centerfold"s
Now this is a challenge! But you can get amazing results. Whistle and she runs to you from behind the corner or stable,teach her to jump over obstacles, help developing the NI (as opposed to AI) to pick the right route when you are too drunk to drive and many more!
www.obd-2.com
The best 120$ I ever spent.
I can now see everything happening in my car in real time, and if I get the right program and know what the hell I'm doing, I can reprogram it aswell.
We have several people on slashdot who are professional coders and engineers who work for companies making automotive mod chips. Hopefully some of them will weigh in here....
"Weapons should be hardy rather than decorative" - Miyamoto Musashi
I think that goes for OS's too
And the coming of warmer weather is bringing in a new wave of customers to KTR, which was originally owned by Boston rocker J. Geils.
"First I look at the chip?" nah, doesn't fit.
"Because of this article, I can't do my homework....anymore...?" hmm, too obscure
"Freeze Framedump?"
"My blood runs cold, that Memory has just been sold..."
I don't have any of my albums handy, i'll have to see which songs Giles actually wrote.
GM offers a chip upgrade as part of a supercharger kit it sells for the Pontiac Vibe, a small car that's popular with street racers. Films like "2 Fast 2 Furious" have inspired young auto enthusiasts to buy cheap "tuner cars" like the Vibe, and muscle them up.
The vibe is many things (chief among them is ugly), but it is definatly not cheap. There are a lot of other cars that better fit that class of vehicle. The Vibe is just a Toyota Matrix with a Pontiac nameplate. It looks "young and hip" but few of those who fit the "young and hip" catagory can afford them outside of a lease.
There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
chocolate chips?
:)
Potatoe chips???
God, im hungry
/syle
Window$ based - it'll be crashing all the time. Linux based - you'll have SCOLawyerMobiles chasing you instead of the cops.
'Don't worry' said the trees when they saw the axe coming, 'The handle is one of us.'
Don't those Japanese letter stickers work better and cost much less? Then there is always the 5 cent 'resistor mod' that everyone and their brother sells on eBay for 20 bucks......
Repant. Thy end is sheer.
Windows Mobile has detected unidentified hardware, and is unable to find a driver for it.
Restarting...
And yes, they're much more ferocious than wood chippers...
"Obviously, I'm not an IBM computer any more than I'm an ashtray" (Bob Dylan)
Then there's the warranty issue. Reprogramming a car doesn't void the warranty -- unless it can be shown that a later breakdown was caused by the new software. Ford Motor Co. spokesman Glenn Ray says one buyer of a new 2003 Ford Cobra learned this the hard way. The Cobra is about as powerful a car as Ford makes, but not powerful enough for this customer. "He put a chip in it," said Ray, "and blew up the motor." The owner had over-revved the engine--something the original software would have prevented.
Somewhere right now, a Slashdot reader is saying to himself "What a dumbass."
And somewhere a Cobra owner is reading about an overclocker who cooked his Athlon and is saying to himself "What a dumbass."
There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
So how many chicks would a wood chipper chip if a wood chipper could chip chicks?
www.6502asm.com - Code 6502 assembly or.. DIE!!
give better head than squirrels.
Very cool i bought a device from cobbtuning that gave me a an additional 30+ HP and gobs more torque. Best $555 i think that can be spent on a vehicle. It can also ge selected to even have ecomny for those long trips i think it's jsut a great idea!
Link to the ddevice http://cobbtuning.com/wrx/accessport.html
Not necessarily. I am posting as AC b/c I used all my mods pts trying to dispell some really bad myhs that are being posted to this thread.
I have an 2001 Audi A4 1.8T with a GIAC ECU chip. The car passes emissions just fine, even with an aftermarket cat-back exhaust on it. The dealership just did warranty work on my car and replaced my camshaft tension adjuster. I have *NEVER* removed the chip from my car. The dealership has mentioned that they noticed it was in there and never gave me any problems (I have taken it to 2 different dealerships w/o issue).
They have to prove that the damage is done directly from your modification, as the Magnuson-Moss Act states.
What the article doesn't point out is that over-boosting your cpu engine will cause it to wear out in a hurry.
As to the "Premium Fuel" thing, I'm doubtful, since all pussies i've ever worked with use knock sensors, and are always running at the ragged edge of detonation anyway.
To the tune of "Centerfold"
The seals won't hold,
My oil gauge is stuck on cold,
This chip has cracked my manifold,
This chip has cracked my manifold...
'Don't worry' said the trees when they saw the axe coming, 'The handle is one of us.'
Is it possible to retune for maximum durability? I could give a shit how fast my car can go, but I really want it to last to 200,000 miles with minimal problems.
It's a Honda Accord V6, so I'm guessing it already is tuned that way, and that manufacturers probably favor durability over high performance anyway.
So how about that Flamebait? Come on asshole, I'm flaming you!
... of course it's in my PS2. Works GREAT! Of cuorse, I have to hold down a button on the controller to get a DVD to boot, but hey, it runs my games... uh... faster?
A chip-modded turbo Civic on nitrous might hold up against 350 hp @ 5200 rpm for one pass at the dragstrip. (Sorry for the Flash animation, but it's pretty inspiring.)
Of course, if money is unlimited, I saw one of these auctioned for around $150K on the "Speed" channel a couple weeks ago...
The worst thing about hot-rodding front wheel drive cars is that no matter how hard you try, they simply won't pop a wheelstand. But those old 'Cudas would, right off the dealer's lot.
"Obviously, I'm not an IBM computer any more than I'm an ashtray" (Bob Dylan)
that was a crap article that was poorly researched. the pros use ls1edit and efilive for tuning corvettes. hptuners just came out with similar products too. and if you are building a high HP race corvette, you piggyback the whole system with a FAST or DFI system for engine management.
t p://www.kcpimp.com/gallery/c5c om/gallery/dyno
i'm using ls1edit and efilive to tune my 580 HP blown c5 corvette.
http://www.kcpimp.com/cars/c5.html
ht
http://www.kcpimp.
links:
ls1edit: http://www.carputing.com/
EFILive: http://www.efilive.com/
FAST: http://www.fuelairspark.com/
DFI: http://go.mrgasket.com/
hptuners: www.hptuners.com
Regards,
kw
p.s. and only an idiot would pay $17k to replace a blown 03 cobra motor. you can get short blocks all day for well under $5k.
-- ken williams
chipping a car is really not that crazy or extreme. Most cars come from the factory with "stupid-proof" setups, i.e., they run very very rich so you can't induce detonation and blow your engine easily, and they engineer in lots of understeer for safety reasons since 90% of the people on the road aren't what you'd exactly call performance oriented drivers.
chipping a car mostly involves re-doing the fuel injector maps and spark timing control for certain rpm ranges to increase torque and horsepower. This has the added benefit of also increasing fuel mileage in many cases, since it's set to be very rich from the factory. When you lean it out a little, you use less fuel, get more power, and have fun in the process.
Most factory turbo cars that I know of don't really use electronic boost control mechanisms, they actually use wastegates and compressor bypass valves to maintain boost in a mechanical/pneumatic fashion. Electronic boost controllers are pretty expensive, anyway.
but just reprogramming the existing chip in a car is nowhere near as good as installing a complete standalone Engine Management System. With an EMS like a Haltech (produced in AU, btw), for example, you can actually adjust fuel, timing, boost, etc literally on the fly, unlike a reprogrammed ODBII type computer found in most cars. This allows you to fine-tune your car for maximum efficiency or power, or whatever you're looking for. (power, of course, duh!)
You'd be really suprised how over-engineered a lot of cars are, and what they can take. Hmm.. sorta like overclocking a processor, really. If you take the proper precautions with each (better cooling, faster ram, good power supply, for the computer, or higher-octane fuel, good lubricants, and regular maintenance for the car)
So before we get our panties in a bundle and start completely ranting on the car tuner demographic (but it wouldn't really be slashdot without it) just keep in mind that it's the same sort of compulsion for car tuners as it is for overclockers, or mod-chippers, or kernel-hackers...
If you can read this, you are most likely close enough.
It's increasing complex business - I know someone that works in it - simply "rechipping" doesn't work in modern and complex engines.
...) on the principle that the makers of these devices don't want people to buy the device then try to home tune it and blow their engine up. The tuning is done inside a workshop with appropriate monitoring tools (e.g. analysers), so they can trim the tables in the software, and observe the outputs on the tools to ensure that the best results are obtained without going too far as to break the engine. Naturally, there are some people who do have their own tools and workshops and are competent do this themselves, but a lot of these modders don't.
The new devices effectively clamp around your Engine Control Unit (ECU) by intercepting it's inputs and outputs: the box modulates the signals coming to and from the real ECU: for example, the ECU will usually consider it an engine fault if (say) emission is too high, so the purpose of the device is to (a) alter the fuel mix ratio output on the one hand, but (b) fool the input back into the ECU that the emissions aren't as high as they really are. There are many variables, the ones I've seen take up to (say) 16 different variables that can be manipulated.
I'm told that the devices need to be tuned for the specific model of car, and preferably, the specific car itself: as individual cars each have different variances and tolerances within the scope of the model itself; and the tuning software isn't released to the public (even though it may escape
This definitely voids your warranty, not to mention probably breaking environmental and other regulations, if you do it to street machines. That doesn't stop some people though. (there's a good analogy here to the issue over releasing drivers for 802.11g chips: because the software in the driver is part of the overall FCC emissions approval, so altering the software potentially voids the approval of the device -- similar concept here in that manipulating your ECU voids the grounds upon which various approvals were made)
However, it also has more legitimate applicability to track machines (based on stock cars) where it's not an infringement of the regulations because these are on private raceways and with specific exclusions and so on (and, these cars are usually modded beyond the limits of the warranty in the first place).
The manufacturers are getting wiser and building in measures to defeat the devices, but it seems to make these guys money, and in the same way that you can often safely overclock your CPU, you can often do it to your engine: just need to be aware that (a) it depends on the specific car itself, (b) it doesn't always work, (c) when you do it, you're taking a lot of risk as by definition you may be working outside of the engineering tolerances/limits of the engine [unless the engineering is there, but commerical and marketing considerations limited its scope].
I am a current owner of this "switchable" software and can verify that the cruise control works just fine with it. As for the horsepower gains, with a turbocharged car it is very significant. I go from 12psi to 20psi of boost when I switch from stock mode to the 93 octane mode. To comment on the engine wear babble, there are plenty of cars with my motor, running with my exact software that are lasting longer than their stock counterparts. It all depends on how well the motor is built to begin with.
?SYNTAX ERROR IN LINE 42
This is at least the 3rd posting in 6 months about changing the programming of a car's ECU. It's not new, it won't go away soon, and it won't let you network your car.
Not only does this chip give you more power, it turns off your a/c for you when you get on the gas, it changes one of your gauges to have 5 other functions and lets you secure your car so you have to press your pedals in a certain order before you can start it! http://www.tmo.com/prod/eprom/conv.shtml
By default, cars are driven differently when they are raced than when they are driven every day. During racing conditions, cars are put under an entirely different type of stress than when they are driven back and forth to the office or on the interstate at rush hour. What works for one will NOT work for the other.
I drive a stock 6-speed C5 Vette, and it's got plenty of power to get off the line just about as fast as you want to, unless you are running competition 1/4 miles or something. It is my daily driver and absolutely wonderful to take extended road trips in. (It also gets 28+ MPG on the highway, in case you were wondering -- outstanding for a car with its level of performance).
If you really must go faster, get one of these superchargers. Both come with a unit to flash your chip and reprogram the car's behavior for the supercharger. They both also have optional three year powertrain warranties available in case you are freaked out about destroying your engine etc.
BTW, chipping is obviously just one of the many methods tuners use to make their cars faster and generally increase performance. Air intake, exhaust, braking, etc. are all also very important considerations which may or may not be affected by reprogramming as well as other mechanical mods.
This topic was covered in a story with ALMOST the same title not 2 months ago on slashdot. Hack Your Car
I'm lucky enough to drive a BMW M3. My local dealership is also the only regional Dinan (aftermarket mods) authorized dealer/installer.
I've had them add some choice goodies, with no effect on my warranty. Dinan also warrantees their mods specifically. No problems yet. The "Ludicrous Speed" button is my favorite. For some reason, my wife still calls it the "accelerator".
I've "hacked" my 2004 Prius so to speak to include the EV Button which comes stock on the Japaneese and some European versions of the car. The American version not only doesn't have the button, but doesn't even have the wiring harness present to do this. Someone was able to figure out which pin on the engine computer triggers this function, and we took it from there. While some of us used the factory button imported from Japan, others have wired it using Radio Shack parts, or into the headlight flasher or the cruise control button as well for a more stealthy appearance.
This purpose of this buttion button is to allow the driver to force the car into electric-only mode for short distances at speeds under 55km/hr (34mph). This is great for sneaking home at night in close quarters, saving gas till you back out of the driveway, or for sneaking up on the old ladies in mall parking lots before laying on the horn.
If you could plug the car in, you'd even have a short range EV car. Now if only they had a button to improve gas mileage while making it do 0-60 in 4 seconds.
$ man woman *
-bash:
I tinker with my car all the time. Back when I had an ECU I even understood (had the firmware source, complete with symbols and comments, don't ask how...), I actually tinkered quite a bit more. Blow up the motor? Oops. Not like I haven't done that before, and there goes a Saturday down the drain changing it out. I usually have a spare engine or two sitting around, or if not I know where the junk yards are or I know how to rebuild or repair them (if possible, depends on the failure mode).
Car Lease? Warranty? What are these? I buy cars for cash (usually used, or occasionally built from 2-3 salvages) and drive the suckers into the ground, then repeat. My Blazer died at 190,000 miles (original engine, third tranny), my del Sol is still good at 160k and should live to well over 200k, and my Yukon is at 110k and is only three years old (only vehicle I've ever bought new). Yes, I drive a lot. Greatest feeling in the world to me - open road, open windows (or open top), radio cranked up, going places just to see what's over the next hill.
Also, how exactly do I invalidate my insurance? I don't carry coverage for repair on any of these, except the Yukon, and that's only because it's new enough to be worth fixing. The rest, after any wreck my insurance would have to pay to fix, I'd either cut up for scrap or fix them myself anyway. If it's the other guy's insurance, obviously I'm going to make them fix it (or just take the money and scrap the car). It's not like I'm stupid enough to ask the insurance people to fix something mechanically that's my fault through stupidity.
Chips are just a new piece of everything that's been done for years - overboring cylinders, performance cams, high flow exhausts, aftermarket blowers, etc. That said, though, chips on normally aspirated cars are usually a waste of time these days. Don't bother - work on the other upgrades instead.
Guess it all comes down to if you know what the hell you're doing, go for it. If you don't, don't be a wannabe wanker that complains when it doesn't go right.
...and it's chipped, and I live in Pennsylvania.
Do you have personal experience to the contrary?
Ha, ha, ha, ha!!!
A bit off topic, but my wife and I rented a car on our honeymoon around Ireland a few years ago. We arrived on a Saturday, and that "Overspeed Warning Off!" warning started flashing on our rental (goofy looking French Minivan thingy) on Sunday morning. Driving in Ireland is...well...a little different for US drivers. The wrong side of the road, hedges and walls within inches of you every mile, and hairpin turns every few feet with tour buses barelling down at you going 65mph!
So, we saw this warning flashing at us, and had no idea how to deal with it. We were nervous about driving as it was, so we pulled over in several towns, trying to find someone on Sunday who knew what to do about it.
We found several auto shops, a couple that were open, but no one had ever seen anything like it before. We even saw a couple of the same vans and tried to track down the owners, to no avail.
Finally, after about 3 hours at a phone booth calling the rental company, the manufacturer, and one international call to a friend who knows something about European cars, we were ready to give up. We stopped to get fuel and decided to just keep driving. How bad could it be?
My wife was talking to one of the locals about our adventure, and the lady's little girl was standing there, listening and eating an ice cream cone. The little girl looked at our van, walked around, opened the driver's door, leaned in, and released a tiny recessed button in the turn signal wand.
Doh!
Stupid American tourists.
Any sufficiently well-organized Government is indistinguishable from bullshit.
I'm a MINI Dealer, and chipping a MINI will lift the little 1.6 litre petrol engine from 90Bhp to 130Bhp for about 500. We honour the warranty for it. It's quite safe indeed, and it's only downgraded at the factory so they can sell the more expensive model/meet emissions laws.
Owen.
Quite simply, a while back I had an older car. It developed an electrical problem, and when I went in to get it fixed, they told me they'd have to start working through the whole electrical harness to find it. In the end, I decided to live with the problem.
Now, these guys weren't great, I'm sure, but there is something fundamentally flawed with the current system of electrical harness. Ideally, the harness should be easy to maintain, not requiring you to rip out molding everywhere.
So let's try some standards: First, let's have color coded wires. We need black for ground, pink for 5 V, red for 12 V, and Orange for anything higher. Negative voltages have a single black stripe along them. Positive are unstriped.
Periodically, on the insulation wires, are resistor type markings that name the voltage.
So that handles all the power. Next, there's data. Data doesn't travel in wires per se, so much as in shielded ribbon cable.
Now, there's the switching. Get a simple chip like the 8051XA, program it to handle simple switching, pop on some Power Mosfets, and remanufacture the whole thing into a single thin, strong, electrically shielded box with a number of jacks for power and data. At about $20 per box, you could have 20 of them in and around the car.
Now, data and power can route from any of them to any other, along the existing lines. Want to buy more? Fine. Hook it up to a few others, program your onboard computer to tell the others to recognize it, and you're in.
Make it all easily user-programmable. You want to tie in some mega speakers into the back of your car? Fine. Hook them into the nearest switchbox, inform your car that they're there, and instantly you have Dolby BLAST(TM) Surround Sound. Or whatever.
Suppose two wires short out? The nearest boxes figure it out, isolate the short, and inform you of the short, the location, and what needs to be replaced. You can then go in and fix it yourself, replacing either the wires, or the box.
Anyhow, that's my basic idea.
There'd be a wonderful market for these things as aftermarket items, too. If your current electrical system goes bad, it might be cheaper just to replace the whole harness, replace your radio with a onboard computer, insert a CD to program it to your used car, and go digital.
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
Not everyone can deal with compilation issues. RPMs make the average user's life much easier so if this "Chipping" thing makes more RPMs for everyone, I think the world will be a better place.
When I tell an object to delete this, am I killing it or telling it to kill me?
Burning rubber off the front tires is soooooo wimpy... And putting a line lock on the rear brakes just doesn't work the same for a burn out...
"Obviously, I'm not an IBM computer any more than I'm an ashtray" (Bob Dylan)
I thought all you had to do, was put one of those idiotic HUGE spoilers, a bunch of stickers, and one of those stupid coffee can mufflers on your car to make it go fast? LOL, some of the cars I see around here sound like a motorcycle under water. Kids today....they don't have a clue what a GOOD motor sounds like........Heck, my stock mustang can out run them. Here's what I do.....I get to a stop light when one of those rice-a-roni cars pulls up next to me...he guns his engine, I gun and brake torque my engine.....Light turns green, he floors it, I quietly make a right turn....lol....Like I'm going to race down a BUSY street anyway.....
People have been chipping cars for years...might as well have posted a story about microsoft's "new" monopoly. recockulous!!!
perl -e '$_="\007/4`\cp%2,".chr(127);s/./"\"\\c$&\""/gees
I did this on my audi S4 last winter: went from 250hp to 307 hp. :)
I can use the cruise control to set it back to factory default before the state inspection or bringing it back to the dealer.
Having a lot of fun with my car now
A high-end car mechanic with a right-sized client list and his own garage can make a great living.... $100k is achievable, more in areas where the service is more in demand. (California, warm weather states, etc...) People that buy these cars will pay a premium to have an expert who knows the car inside and out work on it. For them, it is a no-brainer--make a large cash investment last longer by maintaining it with an expert--Well worth the money when needed. I mean, what, are you going to take your Testarossa to Pep Boys? Those little pimple-pusses would probably crack it up trying to take off in 1st gear...
Who did what now?
Hmm, I don't know about that. While it does take a lot of work, I doubt the million dollar argument.
Case in point, one Jim Conforti. If you are a BMW enthusiast, you probably know who he is. He is a motronics expert, and has been programming chips (when they still used to use chips) for a long time. I have one of his in my '88 M3, and I appreciate his genius. He is generally accepted as one of the authorities on BMW reprogramming. And the BMW factory engineers are certainly no dummies.
Normally aspirated: Add a small bit of horsepower (normally less than you can feel in a double blind test) and lose significant mielage
Sometimes the gains aren't so small, and can definitely be felt on a "butt-dyno". Check out some of these numbers on his chips. Now these are on his chips, for pre-OBDII computers. But they are quite impressive.
His software isn't as easy as plugging in a laptop and fiddling with some numbers, but I wouldn't want to do that on MY car anyway.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
With gas prices coming to an all-time high, the improvement in mileage sounds a helluva lot more attractive than the improvement in horsepower.
Of course, I'm a commie pinko hippie tree-hugger who wants a TDI to burn fry oil in. Mmmm... french fries.
I'm in the hole of the broadband donut.
Chipping your car is one way to get the job done, but another way is to entirely replace the ECU with an aftermarket unit. Then, you can change variables on the fly, which has applications in aftermarket turbo and supercharging of cars. Some ECUs are total replacements (AEM, TEC), and some are piggyback units, which work in concert with the factory ECU (Link for '99+ model year Miatas). I've got a Link in my car, and it's part of an aftermarket turbo setup. A big part of setting everything up is tuning the car, which basically means either using a dyno while you make dynamic changes to fuel supply, wastegate settings, timing, etc. or having one person drive while another checks readings and makes changes. It's a lot of work, but you learn more about how a modern engine works than you'd ever have thought possible. It seems to me that this gives you more control and insight than you'd get just changing the relatively few things that chippers end up doing; mostly they end up altering timing, and not much else. By advancing timing, they get a bit more power, and you need to user higher octane gas to compensate for the increased risk of detonation.
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
I own and use LS1Edit, LT1Edit, Tunercat, EFILive, AutoTap, CarCode, TTS Datamaster, and several other programs (freeware such as WinALDL, Freescan, and Craig's TPI software). Also played around with MasterTune, but that got bypassed by Tunercat & LT1Edit. And Diacom is OK, but its technology is outdated.
A pro will have a whole bag 'o tricks up his sleeve. ;)
Programming a GM vehicle depends on the the technology of the vehicle. For example, the 86-89 MAF TPI cars used a 128kbit EPROM (27c128) - which was easily hacked. The later LS1's use a 4MBit flash chip - which when you're faced with that much code, and it's not removable, makes for a much more significant challenge. Heck, Grand Nationals used a 32kbit EPROM. Talk about simple! ;)
All a "hack" is - is tweaking the lookup tables. Lookup tables are FAST. A CPU doesn't have to crunch through an algorithm - just look at (X,Y) and grab the value there. MAP vs RPM for spark advance. No problem.
In the future, CPU power is going to pass the lookup table, and we're going to be dealing with DSP algorithms. That will be truly challenging to the guys hacking the ECMs. No more tables - just formulas.
Sorry, haven't we seen this before?
Keep in mind HP numbers are wishy-washy... Is it HP at the crank or wheels? There's a loss of power as it travels through the transmission and to the wheels. Is factory HP numbers? Sometimes the factory fudges the HP for various insurance/financial reasons. Is it dynometer HP numbers? The baseline HP should acquired on the same exact dyno the mods were tested on. There's crank and chassis dynometers of various types. You also don't get any "ram air effect" on a dyno. So the motor has to do all the work of pulling air into itself. I can claim a 20% HP gain by just quoting the wheel HP versus the crank HP. To get the whole story, you need torque and power/weight numbers as well.
...I'm going to trust that some guy with an EPROM burner in the back of some garage knows more about my cars systems interactions than the engineers that designed the car? Oh wait...that's generally describing the hacker movement. Never mind...
Would you really trust someone named "Diebold" to hack your car?
Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
something similar to this is in the works now. Cars w/ satellite navigation consoles are being tied into the traffic data so the route that is suggested is suggested to route around congested areas. This is similar to network routing in that capacity is maximized as you send traffic on all available roadways. Anybody who doesn't have the system will still be helped out b/c of the lesser use of the "normal" roadways.
I read about tests of this, i don't think it is wide use, or indeed, i doubt if there is enough penetration of satellite navs to make much of a difference
So all the drivers stuck in traffic can swear at each other.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
Chipping a turbo car (most of the time) involves re-timing when the wastegate kicks in. A turbo will produce boost just about forever (so long as you can spin the blades faster and faster), so at some point, you dump so much pressure in the cylinder that you start to blow head gaskets and all sorts of other nasty stuff like that. The wastegate kicks in at some point, dumping off the extra pressure at a preset psi. By modding the gate's setpoint, you make more pressure, and therefore more power.
True, some engines can take the extra boost just fine (cast iron blocks are very good for abuse. Aluminum....eeeh), some will blow sky-high the first time you try it. It's a calculated risk, just like OC'ing your processor. It IS harder on your engine, no doubt. So while it make take it, the damn thing might go 20 or 30k miles before it should have otherwise. Of course, if you are doing mods like this, you likely don't care about the 20 or 30k. As for naturally aspirated engines, you don't have wastegates to play with. Sure, you can fuck with throttle response curves and the like, but it's not nearly as effective.
You want real power? Go get a bike. Figure this:
An Aprilia Mille weighs about 400 pounds. Puts out 140 horses. That gives me a hp/weight ratio of about 2.8. Cost: about 18 grand.
A Pontiac Vibe weights about 2800 pounds. Puts out 127 horses. That gives me a hp/weight ratio of about 22. Cost: about 18 grand.
A Dodge Viper weights about 3400 pounds. Puts out 500 horses. That gives me a hp/weight ratio of about 6.8. Cost: about 80 grand.
And you get more chicks with the bike, too.
Chris Knight is my hero.
(second topic from top)
Okay, it's not vehicles talking to each other, it's about vehicles using wifi to talk to stoplights, stopsigns and other infrastructure. But it's just a small step from that to vehicles communicating among themselves and trying to coordinate.
Some highlights:
"The in vehicle system would utilize Dedicated Short Range Communications (DSRC), High Accuracy Nationwide Differential GPS (HANDGPS), and a handheld Linux based computer to acquire and analyze the infrastructure warnings to alert drivers."
"The interface and data analysis programs would be copyrighted with the Free Software Foundation copyleft statement"
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
We must start the Open Source Car (OSCar) movement before it's too late. Vehicles must be built with all code stored in NVRAM and source code in a CVS tree at SourceForge.
The only problem is that Windows XPe installed in gasoline pumps may either refuse to deliver fuel to or reformulate the fuel to work less efficiently for an OSCar than for a vehicle that's running Windows. *snicker*
Here's a few urls for those interested (this is slashdot so I'll probably be flamed for being on topic):
http://www.apten-us.com/ - Ford performance chips
http://www.hypertech-inc.com/ - Dodge, Ford, GMC performance chips
http://www.jetchip.com/ - Domestic and Import performance chips
http://www.diablosport.com/main.php - Dodge, Ford, GMC performance chips
I've heard that the Apten chips are really good and they're custom programmed for the the stuff that you have already done to your vehicle (Intake, heads, headers, exhaust, etc). I've heard that the Jet chips suck. Hypertech is a well known brand though.
Is anyone else waiting for the first Car Virus? "I didn't think I was driving 95 miles/hr, my digital readout said I was doing 55!" or worse,
NEWS FLASH:
The HondaVirus/B will be striking at Midnight, June 4th, causing infected brake systems to lock up (or fail).
How about when they start adding WiFi systems in the car systems? Then you drive-by-infect.
Ok fine, I'm a few years early, but does anyone **really** trust car company software any more than Windows?
Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. --Nietzsche
So is there a list somewhere that tells you what micros are used in which cars? Like which cars use 68332's, HC11's or MPC555's?
...who has a problem with people modifying their cars to get worse gas mileage and to produce more pollution? How many folks who've responded here go around bitching about global warming and the government's energy and environmental policies?
Seriously, you have to be a pretty bad driver to over-rev your engine and blow it up. Usually this does not even occur during normal driving. You have to downshift into the wrong gear with most cars to do $17,000 worth of damage. My car requires premium gas and has no rev limiter - it is a '93 Maxima SE. Not too unusual right? Many cars have require premium. My '94 STS was the same way - same thing with any LS1. Nothing changes there!
Your "head engineer" doesn't know what the hell he's talking about, and neither do you. Read on.
The extent to which an turbocharged engine varies greatly with the engine, and generally after 2-3 years, everyone has figured out what the limits are. If you want to play it safe, simply wait until the warranty has expired, and THEN chip the car.
The engines in today's cars are built to handle a specific amount of power, and when the power is increased the wear on components is exponentially increased.
Bullshit. Engine blocks and main components are designed in with quite a bit of extra margin. Not for safety/reliability, but to keep the block from being obsolete within 2-3 years. Audi's 1.8 turbo engine block for example, hasn't changed much over the last near-decade...it has, however, gone from 150hp to as much as 220hp in factory trim. There were certainly changes, but the basic block stayed the same.
Audi's old inline-5 block never really changed over almost 10 years, but was used in cars from 90hp to 220hp. It was the same block that was used in the Sport Quattro, which produced 330hp in factory trim, and 1200(yes, 1200) in full, Group B Rally form. I know people who have been running an extra 65+ hp in their 13 year old Audis, and have been doing so for 6 or more years, some since virtually the day they bought them. Intake hoses burst and you've got to keep things in good shape, but the engines will be in fantastic shape despite 200,000-300,000 miles on them.
As to the "Premium Fuel" thing, I'm doubtful, since all engines i've ever worked with use knock sensors, and are always running at the ragged edge of detonation anyway.
BullSHIT. The knock sensors are to prevent engine DAMAGE, not to let you run the cheapest gas possible. When the ECU detects knocking, it adjusts timing(and boost if turbocharged) until it stops. Adaptive ECUs(anything made in the last 10 years) will remember this and 'set the bar' lower, so to speak. HOWEVER, there's a timeout- with each start of the engine or over a certain period of time, the ECU goes back to what it considers normal. So you will be perpetually bouncing against the limit if running too low an octane.
You don't need a chip to take advantage of premium fuel, just a good OEM computer.
BullSHIT! If the car wasn't designed for anything over a certain octane, running anything higher will be a complete and utter waste of money unless you're running a modified engine(with raised compression or altered timing). Further proof you have NO clue what you're talking about...
Please help metamoderate.
I love seeing people talk about their car mods, gaining a few horses here and there. My bike was $5000 'like-new' and it can do 10sec 1/4ths completely stock. If you want real cheap speed, find a used Suzuki Hayabusa. I think it puts out 150rwhp stock, weighs 450lbs and costs $11k new.
I have a beater car for getting groceries.
Engine control isn't the only interesting area where cars are being chipped. Top Down Tech adds a bunch of features to the car by watching signals on the OBD-II bus. For example, triple-clicking the unlock button on the remote key fob lowers both windows.
Change the fan turn on temperatures for a 160 thermostat
Program the transmission to perform similar to a shift kit (1994 and newer)
Power program the car for use with premium octane gasoline
Remove the top speed limiter
Correct the speedometer and transmission for gear and tire changes
Correct for the use of a larger throttle body.
Change idle settings and restore drivability with cam installs
Correct for larger injectors
Correct for larger displacement (383, 396, etc....).
:)
Unfortunately, he only does GM cars and I own a Ford. Oh well... If you do own a GM car, check out his site... He may be able to help you and and you may be able to help him pay for college!
I got a 03 Cobra short block with better forged pistons from Modular Madness for $3600 drop shipped to my door.
Anyone who pays over 10k for a keyturn cobra motor needs to go do some homework.
My 1986 Saab turbo has a 'tweaked' boost controller in it to alter the boost profile. You simply twist a couple of pots in the APC (Automatic Pressure Control) computer to adjust base boost, peak allowed boost, and knock sensitivity (the APC system listens for knock, and retards boost in small increments until the knocking subsides), and presto! 20+ extra HP. My '92 Saab 9000 turbo has an actual digital computer in place of the old APC system, and I have chips in that one too. Now here's the real deal : I'm currently in the R&D phase of installing a P-III 1GHz EBX format all-in-one motherboard in the car's dash, complete with 7" touch screen lcd. Not only will it play DVDs, MP3s, have GPS with moving map and wifi, but using the board's PC/104 connector and a digital IO board, I plan on integrating it into the car's electronic controls. This particular car is at the right age where all of the components are digital, but they are not so tightly integrated (later Saabs use an actual proprietary data bus for the different embedded controllers to communicate), so this should be fairly successful.
Need a simple, easy to use data tier generator? http://www.gryphinsoftware.com/
I ran a stage 1 86 5.0 monte carlo to 180k before with no problem. This was my first exeperince with a modded chip.
It was nice for a month. :/ Then crunchies.
I have a ford 99 Grand Marq 4.6 I'm thinking of tunning. Ford has got similar engines to 260hp from my 200 in four years.
Novel theory: Modern Man evolved from psychopath
Haha...'valet'? You can make it so it's not as cool for the valet? That's awsome!
Honestly, boosting HP, who cares...its boost in torque at low RPM that's the ticket, and a 6 will be better than a turbo 4. Not to mention smoother, quieter, and better fuel economy.
"Like your Driver's Ed teacher always said, operating a motor vehicle is not a RIGHT, it's a PRIVILEGE. Treat it like one. Respect your car, respect your fellow motorists, and respect the laws that govern what's allowed on public street"
Are you always this much fun? Cripes. I'll bet you're real hard to get along with.
To be so worried about "the rules" all the time?
Seriously.
You're like a 80 year-old grandma worrying about what might happen instead of getting out there and enjoying yourself.
Relax. Smoke a doobie, and have some fun.
" No, they want more horsepower"
The poseurs want horsepower to brag. The guys with balls want torque so they can actually be faster.
HP is overrated. Torque is underrated.
who your dealer is, who your tech is, what kind of problem you're having - AC goes out? probably ok, blow turbos? good luck.
It's a risk many people are not willing to take, so they put a stock ECU in before any service.
I think back in early 80's GM (I think) got sued for not doing warrenty work on car for some stupid reasion (Like not using GM oil) anyway the court handed them there ass, and congress created a law where as long as what you replace is reasonable they must cover it. Anyway you should look it up, if you even threaten legel action dealer ships back down. Same goes for computers with the do not open stickers and such.
-James
The wastegate is not the same thing as a diverter/blowoff.. both exist at the same time.
The wastegate serves to limit the boost pressure.. if pressure rises too high the wastegate vents excess pressure to atmosphere. By raising the release pressure on the wastegate, you allow the turbo to generate more boost. On some vehicles, this is electronically controllable, so in theory (and practice) the ECU can adjust the boost on the fly.
A blowoff or diverter, serve to let air flow cleanly when the throttle is closed, so as not to create backpressure on the turbo... different thing entirely.
Coincidence != irony, you fucking moron.
They say it's due to DBW, but I say it's due to a better boost program.
When Audi/VW switched to DBW, the 1.8T was still 150HP. Then, they changed the head to add VVT (along with a very slightly reduced compression ratio), and HP increased to 170. They also switched to a hybrid turbo (larger impeller) to get better efficiency, i.e. less heating of the intake charge when the turbo is flowing near peak HP (boost and flow rate).
Most of the HP gain is higher boost. The VVT probably did more to impact emissions than to contribute to peak power.
the exhaust, at least on modern german autos, is usually good enough for up to 230-250hp
Then, kindly explain why most tuners require a low restriction exhaust with a turbo upgrade (at least for pre-2002 A4 and all Passat). It ain't for the purdy sound.
i'm not in america, but in australia this has been going on for ages, since we can import jap cars ourselves, ones that u americans aren't allowed this is a very common thing to do here and basically just about every man and his dog into autosports and cars does it. and most don't remap the ecu or "chip" it as u say, most just buy a whole brand new aftermarket computer for a slightly higher price where u can adjust it yourself on the fly with a hand controller. I should know :) i drive a nissan skyline myself :) about 130rwkw (rear wheel kilowatts) stock, now with 170rwkw just with an exhaust and a little bit of extra boost. looking for 200rwkw with a few other simple addons. jap cars are over engineered, this engine can take 250rwkw approx 400hp with a bigger bolt on turbo and stock engine :)!!! u americans dont' get that over there :)
Emissions Inspections are designed for monster SUVs and F150s to pass.
Small cars with modded ECU? Not a problem.
I'm eagerly waiting for the day my modded ECU car fails an emissions test - it is also the day where we see SUVs disappear on the road.
If I remember right, the Corvette ZR1 from the mid 90s had two keys, one for full performance and one for reduced.
I read something a couple years ago about a car that had a valet key that not only reduced performance, but limited the top speed to 30mph and the top distance to 10 miles OR something to that effect, the distance and speed limitations were part of it.
I don't think it was an OEM/factory thing,
If anyone remembers?
he'll get your 1.8T up from 150-170 bhp to 211-225BHP for around 400UKP, by custom mapping your ECU with a laptop and a rolling road. I've driven the result, and it rules - doesn't flash up error codes on a VAG diagnostic, doesn't hurt economy unless you keep your foot down.
We don't all live in the US, either.
If I rip my transmission and send the rods through the bonnet after fitting a huge nitrous system that pushes power way outside design spec, do you think the dealership should just fit me a new engine?
For tuning late model GM cars I believe there are better solutions out there.
I've seen a demo of the HP Tuners product and it seems to be very well developed. They support quite a few vehicles too.
http://www.hptuners.com