First, evolution of species is still very much theory. We have yet to see a mutation that causes a species to evolve to a new species. No, fossil evidence does not prove it, we would need a lot more to make it proven. DNA may do, but obviously there are complications with getting DNA from fossils. It's a good theory, but it's not proven. We have way more proof for in species evolution, where a bird has a modified beak or a dog has a modified tail. That evolution is quite different from an ape becoming a human or a fish becoming a snake.
Since it's theory, I have no problem with it being taught _as_theory_. Many other concepts and sciences should be learned first, like chemistry/anatomy/biology. Because of that it, should probably be learned at higher education levels. Mention it, sure. Make kids memorize it and teach it as fact? Not so much.
HEY, LOOK AT THOSE CHINESE BUSINESSES AND LOOK HOW BAD THEY ARE! Meanwhile US companies hire illegal workers, sue everyone and everything, lie to regulators, blackmail anyone trying to prosecute them or investigate them, pay media to outright lie to US citizens, and steal from US citizens.
Until we clean up things at home why is anyone in the US talking about China? Wholly crap man, you do realize that banks are still foreclosing on houses where owners don't even have mortgages right? You do realize that things like Honeywell vs. Nest are still happening right? You do realize that Merck was found falsifying reports and documents to the FDA which caused millions of people to get sick and in some cases die just to make pharmaceutical companies lots of money right? Hell, the DOJ illegally sold guns to Drug cartels in Mexico and nobody even talks about it let alone has been prosecuted or punished.
Don't mistake what I say for saying China is magically better than the US. What I'm saying is that we are so fucked up right now we have no right to bitch about anyone else.
Complex or not, the post you replied to is very correct. It's not about "awe, these rules are hard" it's about being able to articulate thoughts to as many recipients as possible, as clearly and concisely as possible.
One must also consider the medium being used. Twitter has a very low character limit. I am way more tolerant to someone saying "B in L8 car broke down waiting for tow truck" than I would be if someone sent that same email.
No language is perfect, and every language has complexities. Those complexities evolved over time to accommodate clarity. I'd be very surprised if suddenly there was no need to be clear with communication any longer.
If only I believed that you were correct for the US ( I see that you are not from here). Go read some science books at our local public schools. Show me where it states that the big bang is theory, or the age of the Universe is theory, or that evolution of species is theory. In some cases, it may be mentioned somewhere in the text but it's not taught that way. Go ask some Junior high kids in the US the question, and see what they answer. The presentation is what I take issue with, not the theory.
Next, go look at the rhetoric used to dissuade people from looking at anything outside of the theories. I'm not sure this is a US only phenomenon, but perhaps it is.
As mentioned previously, I agree with your premise. That premise is what we started with when the Scientific Method was defined. The practice is very different very often. I often point out to atheists that they are stronger evangelists than Religious people very intentionally. Yes, it's a movement just like any other religion that evangelizes. When masses of people are paid to tell people how to think (read some of my other posts in this thread if that lost you), and fallacies are used to convince people not to look, and of course the atheist opinion must be right and everyone else is wrong.. it's a movement.
Lastly, you are only correct about science being fact based when it comes to things that we _can_ measure and test. In order to get to the point where we can build tests and methods of measurement we must use Philosophical methods first. Everything in Science starts with logic and reason. It's still science, even when we can't take measurements. There are numerous fields where we only have logic and reason as tools to work with. That may be the same thing you were stating, I could have easily misread your statement.
For your item 1, Philosophy is seen as a threat. If one can think for themselves it's dangerous. This is a phenomenon that is not new at all. Hell go back to the Sophist movements from the time of Socrates and Plato. Knowledge = Power, and the people that have power know this. Do you think it's accidental that 20 years ago laws were passed so that people could own ideas? More on this as I get to item 2.
For your item 2, much has to do with item 1. Look, I don't care if you don't believe we have a creator. What I do care about is that the vast majority of atheists have been brainwashed not to think about the answer for themselves. All they can do is repeat the same fallacies that have been used to brainwash them. I'm sure you will recognize "I don't need your superstitious mumbo jumbo to have a Universe" and "I don't need some fairy tale.." and "I don't need some sky bully..". Those are all well designed fallacies meant to brain wash people. It's an old trick, but most people won't recognize it since it's beat in to their heads over and over, and for a very long time. The opinion is obvious: "No need for a God". The remainder of those fallacies is intended to humiliate anyone that thinks about the answer for themselves, or anyone that does not agree with the opinion. They also intentionally state that an opposing opinion must be fake. The amount of open brain washing that's going on in society is scary.
Now, let me ask a question regarding the fallacy. If there is no need for a creator, why are people in power spending so much money telling you so? Do you know how much money Hawking made by coming out and saying there was no need for a creator? How about Kraus, or countless others that make small fortunes writing books, doing TV appearances, being paid for public speaking, etc.. all to convince you not only are they right, but that you should not look for an answer.
The paragraph above should not be mistaken for me saying atheism is wrong mind you. The answer is opinion (It can not be proven), and everyone is entitled to their own in my opinion. People are not given the tools required to formulate an opinion, and rhetorical tricks are used to make sure as many as possible never go looking. I despise the brainwashing, not a different opinion.
For item 3, again you are not right. CoS does not teach creation, nor does it try to answer the same questions as Religion. Religion tries to answer the basic Philosophical question of why we are here and where everything comes from. CoS does not. CoS openly teaches that money is required to be better than the next guy, discounts any human responsibility for actions (good or bad), and encourages those with money to abuse those without. There is no charity in CoS and no good-will.
I'm sure you will immediately start pointing out how Religion has in many cases done similar things. I'll point out that humans are pretty fucked up, and abuse everything possible for greed. True Religion does not teach it's right, but it's not possible to prevent pricks from getting in to their system. Just like we have greedy douche bags in Politics we have greedy douche bags in Religions. It's about power, not about Religion. The nicest people tend to get fucked by the nastiest because of human nature, not because of Religion.
I'll try to find one, I have a bookmark at work. It's a blog site for the theory of evolution related to humans being water dwelling instead of safari dwelling (it's actually a good theory). Maybe that will get you started. But you see similar quotes right in this thread. I have replied to at least one that hints at Philosophy being idiocy and useless for progression.
While I agree with what you state, the obvious point is that we have been taught that there is no room for question. The Big Bang was taught as a fact for millions upon millions of people. It's in text books and argued vehemently by the atheist movement as fact and anyone that did not agree with it was ridiculed and belittled.
It's not the first time science has told us that something is factual and anyone that disagreed was (insert statement of ridicule or insult) just to find out later it was not factual. It's just the latest. That was my point, apologies if it was not clear enough.
Ignorance will only bother a person when they realize they are ignorant. You don't, as is obvious by your post. If you ever decide to walk out of the cave and look around, you will probably become first physically ill. After your eyes adjust, you will start to feel better. As you begin to see, you will know how wonderful the world really is, and you will despise the time you spent in the cave.
People have been trying to seal off the entrance for a very long time, and at the rate things are progressing you don't have much time left to get out.
Those words probably make no sense to you. I sincerely hope people like you would wake up and start trying to get out, instead of being content to live in a cave.
Those words are not as much a metaphor as you initially think.
By the way, I freely admit my ignorance. I don't know nearly as much as I should, and continually seek the truth. The task is extremely difficult since people want us in the cave.
Your story is similar to the truth, but not the truth. Hubbard actually wrote papers regarding how to get rich creating a Religion years before writing "Dianetics" and founding the cult. You can read lots of good details here. Operation Clambake is an anti CoS web site that has been around for a long time.
Big bang does not work as the the Creator since the Big Bang has required components. Mass and Energy must exist for the Big Bang to have happened. I agree with the complexity involved in defining a creator, and honestly have spent years trying to define it. The whole problem is a bit more complex however, since there is also a requirement for a definition for "The beginning of the Universe".
I think some of the latest physics actually helps that definition quite a bit, I have yet to update my work. Lots of good Science has come out recently which I need to factor in.
Think about the latest theoretical physics work showing that a vacuum is not empty. Particles appear and dis-appear at an incredible rate, and actually cause space to begin to expand and mass and energy begin to form. The creator simply needs to make an initial particle of space or perhaps, and maybe more correctly, is the initial particle of space which everything comes from.
I also hope that the zealots realize that the recent discovery discounts any need for a big bang and very much debunks the theory being taught for the last half century as an absolute scientific fact. Lets see how many actually get that part.
Wow, you obviously have no idea what Philosophy is! You do realize that Philosophy is what defined the Scientific Method you probably agree with right? You do realize that Rhetoric which is used to formulate thoughts is Philosophy right? You do realize that correlation, simplification, deductive reasoning, logic, hypothesis are all parts of Philosophy right?
It's pretty obvious that you don't realize any of that, because someone did not tell you. But I'm sure they told you Cosmology was factual, and Theoretical Physics was factual as well. Have fun being ignorant!
While in most cases I believe this to be true today, historically this was not true. Hence the Lutheran reformation for which one of the many complaints by Luther was the Catholic Church selling Penance tokens for a fixed price. Penance would assure that anyone could get to Heaven according to the Catholic Church at the time, hence ultimate enlightenment.
I may have the term "Penance" incorrect, been about 20 years since I studied the Lutheran reform. Just figured I'd point that out before someone else called you a liar.
One thing I missed was a comment on your quote, outside of the misspelling.
They just don't feel a need to believe in some arbitrary Judeo-Christian lifestyle.
I agree with you that the original Bill of Rights was correct as written, it was just not followed. Now it's become so distorted that it has little meaning to most people. Sounds like you have been discriminated against yourself, which is to bad. Most of our politicians now feed the argument instead of trying to resolve it. Things like abortion and equal rights should have been resolved 30 plus years ago, long before I could vote. That itself is something worth pondering.
That said, you do realize that the original laws were based on Judea-Christian values right? Not the extremist BS mind you, but the 10 commandments which most countries have as a rule of law. That does change how wealth can make certain people exempt from the law, but it is the law as written.
I have seen this quote on at least a dozen science blogs recently (last couple months). That is the statement, it's as simple as that. I agree it makes no sense since our Government is founded and established based on Philosophy. I'm not sure that the people repeating the propaganda truly understand their statement, but that's nothing new.
The moral break down in the US is a mixture of a many things. Atheism definitely plays a part, but most surely is not even close to the whole. That's why I suggested to investigate the issue and did not provide it. It's way to complex to try and explain here in a reply.
As a start, look at when the US did away with classical education and started teaching to standards testing. Start investigating who is pushing many of the agendas you talk about in your first paragraph. Let me give you a hint: There are a lot of people that want the disturbances. It's a slight of hand trick so you don't see what's really been going on. The information is out there, but you you have to look. You sure as helk won't find information on corporate controlled media. Keep zooming out, eventually you will see the big picture.
You should have ordered them _with_ the correct OS on them. HP, Dell, IBM, etc.. all work with you assuming you have a business relationship with them. Being in IT requires a whole lot of things other than skills with a computer. Being a politician and savvy business person are tremendous assets to IT people, in addition of course to computer knowledge.
One of the hardest lessons for IT people to learn is how valuable their time is. This is where you leverage your business partners to get more done.
Not me, I pay vendors to do what they do best which is to support hardware that I don't have time or resources to support. A vendor that sells and supports an assload of PC's is going to have a help desk that could have probably told him within 10 minutes what the problem was, and how to fix it. He had people spending a lot of time on the issue, wasting the companies money.
Sometimes sure, you have to go find and fix problems. Most of the time HP or Dell could have told him how to fix it, and modified his shipping orders to include the BIOS change on new equipment. If you are using Joewhatthefuck's brand of PC, then you have a whole lot more to worry about. Then again, you are probably in a very small shop so have time to mess with those things.
The guy gave one example of being able to fix something, and said he Google's everything so he can to know as much as he can. At 20 that mind set probably sounds good. I have been at the game for 25 years, and was similar when I started. I learned over times that process and procedure is critical, not the one off solutions that I can provide. It's not a quick jump and honestly it took years and years to get that way. As others mentioned being burned by, and burned out by, having to support all the bullshit that people request takes a toll. That does not mean I don't learn or do new things, but rather I have enough wisdom to discern a solution from a fix. There is a huge difference, and it takes a long time to learn the difference in most cases.
I don't think it's bad to be excited about a job, or when people want to learn. What I'm concerned with is the mind set that because he can Google he is smart, and worse the people he works with are stupid and lazy because they are not like him.
Logical proof of a creator is relatively easy, of course you have to look through the cloud of bullshit that has been thrown in your face over the last 20-30 years. The Philosophical arguments for a creator are just as valid now as when originally proposed. Arguments such as "The Uncaused Cause (Aristotle)" are well thought out, and Science has done nothing to solve that question. Of course most atheists will say "no-uh uh" and end the debate.
If you are truly interested, I have some thoughts on the subject (actually quite a few). Let me know and I'll give you the links. It's important to note that I don't get in to any specific Theology, but discuss creator in a general sense. Theology is not relevant if you don't believe in a creator. I'm not going to tell you a specific Religion is right or wrong, that is between you and a Theologian.
Psychopathic defines the modern trends in atheism where it is frequently claimed that "Religion should be wiped off the face of the earth", and more recently "Philosophy should be wiped off the face of the earth". Maybe you are not one of "those" atheists, but your statement has a similar tone when declaring that Religions and cults are the same thing. Cults tend to cause great amounts of harm to people, often times leading to mental conditions that can never be repaired, suicides, rape and molestation, as well as the financial burdens placed on families and communities. Do you see how your correlation becomes dangerous? Cults are illegal, so of course a logical progression from your statement would be that Religion should be illegal. It's a single step progression in thought.
Scientology is to Judeo-Christianity is as pulp scifi is to fantasy, stylistically different but equally unlikely
No, they are not the same thing at all. Comparing Judea-Christian Religion to Scientology would be similar to a person of Theology claiming an atheist and satanist are the same. The core belief is not even close, so how would one draw a conclusion that they are the same other than either bias or ignorance?
Since you at least pretend to have knowledge I'll go with the bias answer. I stand by my original statement and recommend consultation with a professional since your state of mind can easily progress to more dangerous conditions without treatment.
One other quick point: I am not a fan of what some Religions do, or what many have done in the past. At the same time, there is no harm in a person trying to live a Judea-Christian life style. 1. If you only see Radicals, you need to look outside of what corporate controlled media has been telling you. The world is full of good people that try to do good things. Religion tends to build communities and elevate moral values in those communities (before you say "but" read the sentence I intentionally numbered "1". The same thing can not be said for atheism, cults, or satanic worship. Check history, read some independent papers, and maybe even investigate the moral break down in America over the last 30 years.
Last I checked Scientology is still considered a cult, and is defined as a cult in numerous countries not just the US. Cults are not new, and of course not restricted to Scientology, but they are always called cults. This is true even when the cult calls themselves religion, as an extremely high percentage of cults do.
If you really believe what you said, I would recommend seeking psychological consultation since it's a rather psychopathic statement.
I may be incorrect about the current classification as a cult for Scientology, I'm not going to bother checking. If I am incorrect, you can always look at documentation to see how long they were classified as a cult. It's not a secret, but much of the CIA and FBI documentation regarding investigating them is classified.
Look, it's rather simple. Being able to Google does not make you an architect or engineer, and it does not mean that someone else is lacking. Architecture and Engineering requires wisdom, which is not something you get with Google. Quite the contrary, spending so much time fishing for random bullshit reduces your wisdom.
Let me explain that statement a bit: Goodie that you can Google an answer, fish for a few minutes in a BIOS and fix a problem. It's not an exceptional event, and the fact that you had to do that means that your people complaining may be correct. You pay vendors and data center people to perform tasks, and the vendor in this case failed to provide what they are contracted to do. You fixing it does not correct the problem, so who knows what you get in your next batch of servers? Will you be able to find the next BIOS setting that's messed up? How about someone else finds the problem, and you look like a tool since it's something you think makes you special?
When I was your age, I knew that I was smart and invaluable. 10 years later, I learned how big of an idiot I was, and 10 years after that I repeated that thought process. Experience is where wisdom comes from, and being able to zoom out and see the bigger picture comes with that wisdom. Right now, you are proud that you can put a Band Aide on something, later you may be able to actually solve problems and design solutions.
Google does not make someone smart. In fact the opposite has been proven over and over. It inhibits your memory from working properly and makes fact sorting extremely difficult. Sure, I use it as a tool at times but rely on experience wisdom and instinct much more than Google. No, I'm not going to cite anything, go google it you lazy bastards!
Lastly never rate people by how smart you think you are, but rather what they believe they are smart at. You will learn a whole lot more that way, and probably get along much better with people.
Business people, really that is where you put the blame? Wholly fuck you people are ignorant! Look at who is requesting the data and what it's being used for! That a business can make money from it is secondary, but yeah I'm sure that's in the plan as well.
My experience was way way different. We handed users 2 floppies, and even on the PCs with 1 floppy the end user knew nothing except for typing "wp" and pressing enter. Most users back then never even knew floppies had a physical write protect. Some did, sure.. most of them probably run Linux or Mac's now:D
I think we both agree that the point I started with stands? Blaming parents does not fix the issue since parenting is a very small part of the problem.
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First, evolution of species is still very much theory. We have yet to see a mutation that causes a species to evolve to a new species. No, fossil evidence does not prove it, we would need a lot more to make it proven. DNA may do, but obviously there are complications with getting DNA from fossils. It's a good theory, but it's not proven. We have way more proof for in species evolution, where a bird has a modified beak or a dog has a modified tail. That evolution is quite different from an ape becoming a human or a fish becoming a snake.
Since it's theory, I have no problem with it being taught _as_theory_. Many other concepts and sciences should be learned first, like chemistry/anatomy/biology. Because of that it, should probably be learned at higher education levels. Mention it, sure. Make kids memorize it and teach it as fact? Not so much.
HEY, LOOK AT THOSE CHINESE BUSINESSES AND LOOK HOW BAD THEY ARE! Meanwhile US companies hire illegal workers, sue everyone and everything, lie to regulators, blackmail anyone trying to prosecute them or investigate them, pay media to outright lie to US citizens, and steal from US citizens.
Until we clean up things at home why is anyone in the US talking about China? Wholly crap man, you do realize that banks are still foreclosing on houses where owners don't even have mortgages right? You do realize that things like Honeywell vs. Nest are still happening right? You do realize that Merck was found falsifying reports and documents to the FDA which caused millions of people to get sick and in some cases die just to make pharmaceutical companies lots of money right? Hell, the DOJ illegally sold guns to Drug cartels in Mexico and nobody even talks about it let alone has been prosecuted or punished.
Don't mistake what I say for saying China is magically better than the US. What I'm saying is that we are so fucked up right now we have no right to bitch about anyone else.
Complex or not, the post you replied to is very correct. It's not about "awe, these rules are hard" it's about being able to articulate thoughts to as many recipients as possible, as clearly and concisely as possible.
One must also consider the medium being used. Twitter has a very low character limit. I am way more tolerant to someone saying "B in L8 car broke down waiting for tow truck" than I would be if someone sent that same email.
No language is perfect, and every language has complexities. Those complexities evolved over time to accommodate clarity. I'd be very surprised if suddenly there was no need to be clear with communication any longer.
If only I believed that you were correct for the US ( I see that you are not from here). Go read some science books at our local public schools. Show me where it states that the big bang is theory, or the age of the Universe is theory, or that evolution of species is theory. In some cases, it may be mentioned somewhere in the text but it's not taught that way. Go ask some Junior high kids in the US the question, and see what they answer. The presentation is what I take issue with, not the theory.
Next, go look at the rhetoric used to dissuade people from looking at anything outside of the theories. I'm not sure this is a US only phenomenon, but perhaps it is.
As mentioned previously, I agree with your premise. That premise is what we started with when the Scientific Method was defined. The practice is very different very often. I often point out to atheists that they are stronger evangelists than Religious people very intentionally. Yes, it's a movement just like any other religion that evangelizes. When masses of people are paid to tell people how to think (read some of my other posts in this thread if that lost you), and fallacies are used to convince people not to look, and of course the atheist opinion must be right and everyone else is wrong.. it's a movement.
Lastly, you are only correct about science being fact based when it comes to things that we _can_ measure and test. In order to get to the point where we can build tests and methods of measurement we must use Philosophical methods first. Everything in Science starts with logic and reason. It's still science, even when we can't take measurements. There are numerous fields where we only have logic and reason as tools to work with. That may be the same thing you were stating, I could have easily misread your statement.
For your item 1, Philosophy is seen as a threat. If one can think for themselves it's dangerous. This is a phenomenon that is not new at all. Hell go back to the Sophist movements from the time of Socrates and Plato. Knowledge = Power, and the people that have power know this. Do you think it's accidental that 20 years ago laws were passed so that people could own ideas? More on this as I get to item 2.
For your item 2, much has to do with item 1. Look, I don't care if you don't believe we have a creator. What I do care about is that the vast majority of atheists have been brainwashed not to think about the answer for themselves. All they can do is repeat the same fallacies that have been used to brainwash them. I'm sure you will recognize "I don't need your superstitious mumbo jumbo to have a Universe" and "I don't need some fairy tale.." and "I don't need some sky bully..". Those are all well designed fallacies meant to brain wash people. It's an old trick, but most people won't recognize it since it's beat in to their heads over and over, and for a very long time. The opinion is obvious: "No need for a God". The remainder of those fallacies is intended to humiliate anyone that thinks about the answer for themselves, or anyone that does not agree with the opinion. They also intentionally state that an opposing opinion must be fake. The amount of open brain washing that's going on in society is scary.
Now, let me ask a question regarding the fallacy. If there is no need for a creator, why are people in power spending so much money telling you so? Do you know how much money Hawking made by coming out and saying there was no need for a creator? How about Kraus, or countless others that make small fortunes writing books, doing TV appearances, being paid for public speaking, etc.. all to convince you not only are they right, but that you should not look for an answer.
The paragraph above should not be mistaken for me saying atheism is wrong mind you. The answer is opinion (It can not be proven), and everyone is entitled to their own in my opinion. People are not given the tools required to formulate an opinion, and rhetorical tricks are used to make sure as many as possible never go looking. I despise the brainwashing, not a different opinion.
For item 3, again you are not right. CoS does not teach creation, nor does it try to answer the same questions as Religion. Religion tries to answer the basic Philosophical question of why we are here and where everything comes from. CoS does not. CoS openly teaches that money is required to be better than the next guy, discounts any human responsibility for actions (good or bad), and encourages those with money to abuse those without. There is no charity in CoS and no good-will.
I'm sure you will immediately start pointing out how Religion has in many cases done similar things. I'll point out that humans are pretty fucked up, and abuse everything possible for greed. True Religion does not teach it's right, but it's not possible to prevent pricks from getting in to their system. Just like we have greedy douche bags in Politics we have greedy douche bags in Religions. It's about power, not about Religion. The nicest people tend to get fucked by the nastiest because of human nature, not because of Religion.
I'll try to find one, I have a bookmark at work. It's a blog site for the theory of evolution related to humans being water dwelling instead of safari dwelling (it's actually a good theory). Maybe that will get you started. But you see similar quotes right in this thread. I have replied to at least one that hints at Philosophy being idiocy and useless for progression.
While I agree with what you state, the obvious point is that we have been taught that there is no room for question. The Big Bang was taught as a fact for millions upon millions of people. It's in text books and argued vehemently by the atheist movement as fact and anyone that did not agree with it was ridiculed and belittled.
It's not the first time science has told us that something is factual and anyone that disagreed was (insert statement of ridicule or insult) just to find out later it was not factual. It's just the latest. That was my point, apologies if it was not clear enough.
Ignorance will only bother a person when they realize they are ignorant. You don't, as is obvious by your post. If you ever decide to walk out of the cave and look around, you will probably become first physically ill. After your eyes adjust, you will start to feel better. As you begin to see, you will know how wonderful the world really is, and you will despise the time you spent in the cave.
People have been trying to seal off the entrance for a very long time, and at the rate things are progressing you don't have much time left to get out.
Those words probably make no sense to you. I sincerely hope people like you would wake up and start trying to get out, instead of being content to live in a cave.
Those words are not as much a metaphor as you initially think.
By the way, I freely admit my ignorance. I don't know nearly as much as I should, and continually seek the truth. The task is extremely difficult since people want us in the cave.
Your story is similar to the truth, but not the truth. Hubbard actually wrote papers regarding how to get rich creating a Religion years before writing "Dianetics" and founding the cult. You can read lots of good details here. Operation Clambake is an anti CoS web site that has been around for a long time.
Big bang does not work as the the Creator since the Big Bang has required components. Mass and Energy must exist for the Big Bang to have happened. I agree with the complexity involved in defining a creator, and honestly have spent years trying to define it. The whole problem is a bit more complex however, since there is also a requirement for a definition for "The beginning of the Universe".
I think some of the latest physics actually helps that definition quite a bit, I have yet to update my work. Lots of good Science has come out recently which I need to factor in.
Think about the latest theoretical physics work showing that a vacuum is not empty. Particles appear and dis-appear at an incredible rate, and actually cause space to begin to expand and mass and energy begin to form. The creator simply needs to make an initial particle of space or perhaps, and maybe more correctly, is the initial particle of space which everything comes from.
I also hope that the zealots realize that the recent discovery discounts any need for a big bang and very much debunks the theory being taught for the last half century as an absolute scientific fact. Lets see how many actually get that part.
Wow, you obviously have no idea what Philosophy is! You do realize that Philosophy is what defined the Scientific Method you probably agree with right? You do realize that Rhetoric which is used to formulate thoughts is Philosophy right? You do realize that correlation, simplification, deductive reasoning, logic, hypothesis are all parts of Philosophy right?
It's pretty obvious that you don't realize any of that, because someone did not tell you. But I'm sure they told you Cosmology was factual, and Theoretical Physics was factual as well. Have fun being ignorant!
While in most cases I believe this to be true today, historically this was not true. Hence the Lutheran reformation for which one of the many complaints by Luther was the Catholic Church selling Penance tokens for a fixed price. Penance would assure that anyone could get to Heaven according to the Catholic Church at the time, hence ultimate enlightenment.
I may have the term "Penance" incorrect, been about 20 years since I studied the Lutheran reform. Just figured I'd point that out before someone else called you a liar.
One thing I missed was a comment on your quote, outside of the misspelling.
They just don't feel a need to believe in some arbitrary Judeo-Christian lifestyle.
I agree with you that the original Bill of Rights was correct as written, it was just not followed. Now it's become so distorted that it has little meaning to most people. Sounds like you have been discriminated against yourself, which is to bad. Most of our politicians now feed the argument instead of trying to resolve it. Things like abortion and equal rights should have been resolved 30 plus years ago, long before I could vote. That itself is something worth pondering.
That said, you do realize that the original laws were based on Judea-Christian values right? Not the extremist BS mind you, but the 10 commandments which most countries have as a rule of law. That does change how wealth can make certain people exempt from the law, but it is the law as written.
I have seen this quote on at least a dozen science blogs recently (last couple months). That is the statement, it's as simple as that. I agree it makes no sense since our Government is founded and established based on Philosophy. I'm not sure that the people repeating the propaganda truly understand their statement, but that's nothing new.
The moral break down in the US is a mixture of a many things. Atheism definitely plays a part, but most surely is not even close to the whole. That's why I suggested to investigate the issue and did not provide it. It's way to complex to try and explain here in a reply.
As a start, look at when the US did away with classical education and started teaching to standards testing. Start investigating who is pushing many of the agendas you talk about in your first paragraph. Let me give you a hint: There are a lot of people that want the disturbances. It's a slight of hand trick so you don't see what's really been going on. The information is out there, but you you have to look. You sure as helk won't find information on corporate controlled media. Keep zooming out, eventually you will see the big picture.
You should have ordered them _with_ the correct OS on them. HP, Dell, IBM, etc.. all work with you assuming you have a business relationship with them. Being in IT requires a whole lot of things other than skills with a computer. Being a politician and savvy business person are tremendous assets to IT people, in addition of course to computer knowledge.
One of the hardest lessons for IT people to learn is how valuable their time is. This is where you leverage your business partners to get more done.
Not me, I pay vendors to do what they do best which is to support hardware that I don't have time or resources to support. A vendor that sells and supports an assload of PC's is going to have a help desk that could have probably told him within 10 minutes what the problem was, and how to fix it. He had people spending a lot of time on the issue, wasting the companies money.
Sometimes sure, you have to go find and fix problems. Most of the time HP or Dell could have told him how to fix it, and modified his shipping orders to include the BIOS change on new equipment. If you are using Joewhatthefuck's brand of PC, then you have a whole lot more to worry about. Then again, you are probably in a very small shop so have time to mess with those things.
The guy gave one example of being able to fix something, and said he Google's everything so he can to know as much as he can. At 20 that mind set probably sounds good. I have been at the game for 25 years, and was similar when I started. I learned over times that process and procedure is critical, not the one off solutions that I can provide. It's not a quick jump and honestly it took years and years to get that way. As others mentioned being burned by, and burned out by, having to support all the bullshit that people request takes a toll. That does not mean I don't learn or do new things, but rather I have enough wisdom to discern a solution from a fix. There is a huge difference, and it takes a long time to learn the difference in most cases.
I don't think it's bad to be excited about a job, or when people want to learn. What I'm concerned with is the mind set that because he can Google he is smart, and worse the people he works with are stupid and lazy because they are not like him.
Logical proof of a creator is relatively easy, of course you have to look through the cloud of bullshit that has been thrown in your face over the last 20-30 years. The Philosophical arguments for a creator are just as valid now as when originally proposed. Arguments such as "The Uncaused Cause (Aristotle)" are well thought out, and Science has done nothing to solve that question. Of course most atheists will say "no-uh uh" and end the debate.
If you are truly interested, I have some thoughts on the subject (actually quite a few). Let me know and I'll give you the links. It's important to note that I don't get in to any specific Theology, but discuss creator in a general sense. Theology is not relevant if you don't believe in a creator. I'm not going to tell you a specific Religion is right or wrong, that is between you and a Theologian.
Psychopathic defines the modern trends in atheism where it is frequently claimed that "Religion should be wiped off the face of the earth", and more recently "Philosophy should be wiped off the face of the earth". Maybe you are not one of "those" atheists, but your statement has a similar tone when declaring that Religions and cults are the same thing. Cults tend to cause great amounts of harm to people, often times leading to mental conditions that can never be repaired, suicides, rape and molestation, as well as the financial burdens placed on families and communities. Do you see how your correlation becomes dangerous? Cults are illegal, so of course a logical progression from your statement would be that Religion should be illegal. It's a single step progression in thought.
Scientology is to Judeo-Christianity is as pulp scifi is to fantasy, stylistically different but equally unlikely
No, they are not the same thing at all. Comparing Judea-Christian Religion to Scientology would be similar to a person of Theology claiming an atheist and satanist are the same. The core belief is not even close, so how would one draw a conclusion that they are the same other than either bias or ignorance?
Since you at least pretend to have knowledge I'll go with the bias answer. I stand by my original statement and recommend consultation with a professional since your state of mind can easily progress to more dangerous conditions without treatment.
One other quick point: I am not a fan of what some Religions do, or what many have done in the past. At the same time, there is no harm in a person trying to live a Judea-Christian life style. 1. If you only see Radicals, you need to look outside of what corporate controlled media has been telling you. The world is full of good people that try to do good things. Religion tends to build communities and elevate moral values in those communities (before you say "but" read the sentence I intentionally numbered "1". The same thing can not be said for atheism, cults, or satanic worship. Check history, read some independent papers, and maybe even investigate the moral break down in America over the last 30 years.
Last I checked Scientology is still considered a cult, and is defined as a cult in numerous countries not just the US. Cults are not new, and of course not restricted to Scientology, but they are always called cults. This is true even when the cult calls themselves religion, as an extremely high percentage of cults do.
If you really believe what you said, I would recommend seeking psychological consultation since it's a rather psychopathic statement.
I may be incorrect about the current classification as a cult for Scientology, I'm not going to bother checking. If I am incorrect, you can always look at documentation to see how long they were classified as a cult. It's not a secret, but much of the CIA and FBI documentation regarding investigating them is classified.
Look, it's rather simple. Being able to Google does not make you an architect or engineer, and it does not mean that someone else is lacking. Architecture and Engineering requires wisdom, which is not something you get with Google. Quite the contrary, spending so much time fishing for random bullshit reduces your wisdom.
Let me explain that statement a bit: Goodie that you can Google an answer, fish for a few minutes in a BIOS and fix a problem. It's not an exceptional event, and the fact that you had to do that means that your people complaining may be correct. You pay vendors and data center people to perform tasks, and the vendor in this case failed to provide what they are contracted to do. You fixing it does not correct the problem, so who knows what you get in your next batch of servers? Will you be able to find the next BIOS setting that's messed up? How about someone else finds the problem, and you look like a tool since it's something you think makes you special?
When I was your age, I knew that I was smart and invaluable. 10 years later, I learned how big of an idiot I was, and 10 years after that I repeated that thought process. Experience is where wisdom comes from, and being able to zoom out and see the bigger picture comes with that wisdom. Right now, you are proud that you can put a Band Aide on something, later you may be able to actually solve problems and design solutions.
Google does not make someone smart. In fact the opposite has been proven over and over. It inhibits your memory from working properly and makes fact sorting extremely difficult. Sure, I use it as a tool at times but rely on experience wisdom and instinct much more than Google. No, I'm not going to cite anything, go google it you lazy bastards!
Lastly never rate people by how smart you think you are, but rather what they believe they are smart at. You will learn a whole lot more that way, and probably get along much better with people.
Business people, really that is where you put the blame? Wholly fuck you people are ignorant! Look at who is requesting the data and what it's being used for! That a business can make money from it is secondary, but yeah I'm sure that's in the plan as well.
My experience was way way different. We handed users 2 floppies, and even on the PCs with 1 floppy the end user knew nothing except for typing "wp" and pressing enter. Most users back then never even knew floppies had a physical write protect. Some did, sure.. most of them probably run Linux or Mac's now :D
I think we both agree that the point I started with stands? Blaming parents does not fix the issue since parenting is a very small part of the problem.