Scandalous I say! this is just tooo literally virtually phishy. Thieves without a code of honour. Is there no honour among thieves? Real fishermen can't... wait, they can poach, and steal other's fish.
Anybody got a literal virtual stick of dynamite to blow up the caught fish?
Don't some of the major ISPs (well, hosting sites) use MySQL? I would bet that the transactions and storage and data integrity issues they have probably are larger in scope and intensity than some credit card activity, banking and others. But, I could be wrong. Anyone care to take this ball and make it bounce?
Why does Vista STILL require defragging. We hear that Linux doesn't NEED defragging because it smartly places files. Why can't microsoft eliminate this part of the market. If they aren't, just for the sake of cottage defragging companies, then aren't such companies vampires and saws and such?
Mail to their estates or find bounty hunters and next of kin to track down these people who might have liens or interests in SmartSuite patents. Make an announcement. Repeatedly: We are going to Open-Source SmartSuite less the obviously patented stuff. If you hold any Lotus-shared interests or interests not outside of IBM, contact us and we'll reward you for helping us conect the dots.
SmartSuite is a beautiful assembly of applications, and if anything, IBM could release *what it could* in the name of philanthropy, gaining eyeballs for whatever code of the year they like. Hobbyists, students, and professionals could use SmartSuite as a model for learning and maybe even a recruiting tool for IBM.
I think I'm going to develop a window-border gunky misting system to keep this critters grounded, to gunk up their flappers. And, I'll design a "force field" to short them out if they pass the window sill.
VirtualBox. It's friendlier, easier, and damned convenient. I didn't give a RAT'S ASS about the two particular no-virtualization allowed for Basic and Home Premium. And, why SHOULD I or anyone have. It's an onerous, specious, vicious, odious clause. The lawyers and execs who inserted it should be flogged.
Surely, they have their own (or can sue microsoft for) logs and trace files and compiler streams to show what is msoft contribution and IBM's own invention. Separate that. But, first: expose to Open Source developers (who'll do it for free) the functional app. Then, cripple the functionality and challenge or compensate them to restore the functionality with Open Source equivalents.
The SAME could be done for Lotus SmartSuite. I am almost SURE of it. They just probably are afraid of igniting a patent war with msoft, and msoft has no qualms about outright destroying ANY company. I wouldn't put it past msoft to "arrange biological crash" to any persons who suddenly have the magic bullet that would ruin microsoft.
IBM only need get some 50 pilot developers together. Sequester them for 6 months. Keep them the FUCK OUT of the IBM main culture (I have NO doubts that some sections of IBM are internally confounding SmartSuite's ability to become a nuisance or danger to msoft, as in closeted ms shareholders/stockholders). Keep them AWAY from IBM lawyers. Give them ALL the compilers, tools, food, family ombudsmen/women and pay them $180,000 each to crank out something 25x better than the so-called Symphony. Dump oo.O and rewrite the Lotus SmartSuite in the same appearance but decouple it from older limitations. Just rebuild it based on OBSERVING SmartSuite. Sure, look at the IBM/Lotus internals, but otherwise rebuild SS from scratch with new tools.
I am SICK of the snow job IBM and Lotus let perpetuate. oo.O has some nice stuff, but I will NEVER give up SmartSuite for oo.O. oo.O is just not compelling enough. Sadly, many oo.O developers are either too cheap, or under lawyers orders, to NOT even LOOK at (for $5.00 or $21.00) Lotus SmartSuite 9.8 or 9.5 CDs. Even SmartSuite Millenium is not substantially different from 9.5 and 9.8.
Kick my ASS. That blog.mike link above has pron on it, so if you're at work, DON'T go there. Sorry about that. SHIT! I only saw the laptop, and scrolled to some text, but not all the way down, not until I submitted.
It would be NICE if Slash allowed for oh-shit editing, (say, remove a URL, but maybe not the plain editorial text...).
(It's AMAZING how many people do not read critically and constructively here.)
This is JUST the sort of solution I think I am looking for, although $300 is a bit steep for me these days. If it were, say, $200, I'd love it for CAD work. Having USB means, it seems to me, avoiding some issues with X-server configurations, but I could be wrong. It also seems to mean not needing a beefy video card.
(No, and sadly, I have failed miserably at getting ndiswrapper to work, so no wireless. Have to go with a USB wireless antenna. And, no bluetooth, so I'll have to find a USB based b/t device, too. Multimedia panel doesn't work, other than lighting up if I press buttons or swipe the volume panel. Otherwise, the BEST thing in it for me is the serendipitous discovery of 2-drive bay in it, accessed on the bottom side, and, nicely, not underneath the keyboard.)
and it has 2 MB of shared RAM, up to 256. When using VirtualBox (which grants only 128 MB max to video) but, with vista running inside, and PCLOS2007 as the host, the system fast enough for me. In PCLOS, I have all kinds of kewl composite effects (tho, no Compiz or Beryl fun yet) yet even running natively on the same hardware, I see a 1.0 windows experience index for both business/gaming. 5.9, oddly, for hard drive (well, it's not odd), and 4.2 & then 4.3 for some other item I can't remember.
So, I'm finding it really nice to have to not regret my purchase of this laptop since I care more about splitting screen activities (one for CAD, the other for documentation (word processing and database stuff) than about gaming on this laptop. (I installed the SOF Gold from 1999/2000 in Vista in PCLOS, and it wouldn't even START or run graphics. But, in Linux (the Loki version/production of SOF Gold), it ran, but ran crappily, unbearably laggy.)
Probably many of us would love a 17" laptop display (less the weight, though) in a laptop, BUT not be forced to spend $120 or so more for a beefier graphics card. If I can/could scrounge up some $250 and find this thing on sale, it would be kewl.
I just wonder, though: Is anyone making or considering making LCDs that share or offload from the machine most of the graphics work? I mean, a GPU in the LCD? It could even be just off-board RAM inserted into a slot. This way, maybe the hardware could more intelligently communicate with the laptop and speed up the laptop's performance.
Also, it would be nice if the honkin $300 LCDs would become thinner and lighter so as to be carried as a second LCD for those who tote the thing around but don't want a suitcase. I wouldn't suggest showing off in Borders or such with the 2nd LCD (it'd look like you were dragging your office there), but it could be quite useful for displays (when a $500 projector might not be desired, even if it's as small as half a cereal box), especially to share a presentation with clients sitting opposite of you, and when you need breathing room, OR to discourage them from looking at any passwords you might have.
If one could self-design apps for this split-screen (say, as in some X-server options), the user could have the "client/customer" panel that lacks sensitive fields shown on the "operator"/consultant side of the app.
One good stragety is to add oil to the pipes. You know, to increase teh horsespowers, you have to add more viciouscosity to pump the datas through the tubes.
LOOKS like they sent a fax. Just the facts, ma'am...
But seriously, with a fax, there's a communications line that can be disrupted. Can a quantum teleportation "instruction" to "state-mimic" be disrupted? (I don't know, and that's why I'm asking")...
OK, I've got karma to burn! Not ONE goddamn minute my post is up, and some close-minded, stickler-for-being-on-topic BASTARD mods me "off-topic". Get a CLUE you cretin. Teleportation topic discussion is NOT just for finger-twiddling geeks or on-topic-Nazis, you twit. Why don't you open your mind? If this had been a discussion of a new kind of nuke discovery by a relative of Einstein or Fermi or others, moral and ethical questioning would SURELY pop upon Slashdot, and all KINDS of people would get mods other than "off-topic".
Jeez. YOU seem like a teleporation-scrambling target. Why don't you let 50 or 150 people weigh in?
Oh, I forgot: In Star Trek the tractor beams and deflector grids have been used to entrap or destabilize targets, but the crew never used them in a Dr. Evil or maniacal, gleeful way...
I will venture to say the governments would be all to happy to have precision site-to-SOME/ANY-site lock-on capability. They'd rather snatch and destroy living targets than spend the effort to insert humans to do the snatching. Why lose expendable assets (human, allied/aligned soldiers) when taking out the enemy (or enema) means only needing to lock on and scramble?
With a weaponization of such quantum technology, simple bombs or surveillance devices could also be inserted, with quantum self-destruct structures that respond to counter-intel sweeps, or simply devolve/vaporize when the temperature reaches some design-imposed level. This could be to act as a weapon, or to enhance "plausible deniability".
Worse, as a weapon of torture for those who are maniacs or pranksters who get their hands on one, we (or the future people) might read about rulers, bolts, rocks, and other foreign matter being precision-beamed/teleported into people, animals, or even into security or safety glass in buildings.
Imagine this as the perfect bomb: taking OUT or comproMISING structural members of any building, fortification, dam, tower, transmission/reception site, etc. If used on skyscrapers, the toll worldwide would be, well, ummm, "mind-bending". Who the hell would want to go to work in Chrysler Building, or Petronas or Taipei 101 KNOWING that whole floors are collapsing in for no outward (visible/believable) reason. Oh, the reason would definitely be from outside (assuming the teleporter is not transported into the building...)
And, no, I didn't read this in any books. I've been for decades wondering why in Star Trek we've NEVER seen the Federation or non-Fed use of the teleportation technology to undermine the target ships. Always (with exception of I think one Voyager episode) using phasers, quantum or older torpedoes, outright bombs, etc. The transporter was always used as a utility insertion/extraction/rescue/logistics device, not as a weapon. Had I had one, and had enemies who could not localize me, I'd certainly consider using such as device. But, I'm not a time traveler, don't have enemies (that I know of) who'd want me dead RIGHT NOW, and I (right now) deem certain acts as crossing the line. Even going after certain presidents would not be worth it. Too many unforeseeable consequences might unfold. I wouldn't want to be personally responsible for it (unless I could see into the future and KNEW that I'd be saving more innocent lives (not innocent by or for government reasons, but by higher truths and most politicians would care to believe) than harming.
Hopefully, teleportation technology continues to elude physicists. And, don't tell me about all the "good" things it could do. For one, the things might consume enormous amounts of energy. If they do, then that energy could be harnessed instead for removing a lot of pain, suffering, starvation, hunger and joblessness. But military and government bean counters and strategists all have agendas. Basically, if I'd stumbled upon teleportation tech, I'd probably destroy it and hope it was the ONLY copy. So, better hope I'M not the one some alien encounters. No one government can be trusted with such technology. Not at THIS point in our evolution. Hell, not even 2 or 5 or 25 governments. NON can be trusted.
"Could have sworn I heard somebody GURGLE something"? Thinking as an ex sailor, I'd say that if you work at an academic institution, that would give new meaning to "headmaster"...
Yep, the thing is to NOT be in a hurry moving. Now, I'm renting an in-law-like room. $400/month, so I can resume dealing with debts.
But, personally, I don't believe in "old charmers" or other snow-job descriptives. I realize that new-construction materials-loaded structures have formaldehyde and other heinous chemical treatments, but, to me anything with lead paint, rat infestation, old-world (US pre-1985) construction, cheapo-gymn/manufacturing-floor-like carpets and new walls inside code-condemnable buildings is just shameful. Sadly, it's just to expensive for owners, unprofitable to undertake. And, the greedy city and counter governments would just relieve the building owners of more or new taxes, ostensibly to socially care for the homeless/etc. I'm only grousing because my one-time (~3-years held) home was new, from the ground up, and I watched her go up almost every weekend.... Someday, Someday, but not in california,...
Scandalous I say! this is just tooo literally virtually phishy. Thieves without a code of honour. Is there no honour among thieves? Real fishermen can't ... wait, they can poach, and steal other's fish.
Anybody got a literal virtual stick of dynamite to blow up the caught fish?
Don't some of the major ISPs (well, hosting sites) use MySQL? I would bet that the transactions and storage and data integrity issues they have probably are larger in scope and intensity than some credit card activity, banking and others. But, I could be wrong. Anyone care to take this ball and make it bounce?
HOW DARE you cheer him on without advising him to get:
-- surge protector (for the massive drains he'll lose -- emotional, seminal, and physical)
-- hip-socket replacement insurance...
-- portable defribulator
Test, when it's IN the acid nest?
Why does Vista STILL require defragging. We hear that Linux doesn't NEED defragging because it smartly places files. Why can't microsoft eliminate this part of the market. If they aren't, just for the sake of cottage defragging companies, then aren't such companies vampires and saws and such?
http://cbbrowne.com/info/defrag.html
http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/linux-newbie/58320-disk-defragmentation.html
This one challenges Novell's reply:
http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/qna/15032.html
http://geekblog.oneandoneis2.org/index.php/2006/08/17/why_doesn_t_linux_need_defragmenting
(Oh, BTW, just heard now 17:05 local PST, Yahoo! is scheduled to layoff numerous employees, but it's about 19hour old:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/22/technology/22yahoo.html?bl&ex=1201150800&en=0019b93b4bb1c219&ei=5087
http://news.yahoo.com/fc/Business/Downsizing_and_Layoffs/
)
"It still makes Windows look like its inbred retarded cousin."
I see your IRC and call windows a:
IRC + CHAT +IO + PAP
(Chimeraic- Hemorrhoidic - Asexually Troubled Inside-Out) + Psychedelically Activated Proto-thingy)
Mail to their estates or find bounty hunters and next of kin to track down these people who might have liens or interests in SmartSuite patents. Make an announcement. Repeatedly: We are going to Open-Source SmartSuite less the obviously patented stuff. If you hold any Lotus-shared interests or interests not outside of IBM, contact us and we'll reward you for helping us conect the dots.
SmartSuite is a beautiful assembly of applications, and if anything, IBM could release *what it could* in the name of philanthropy, gaining eyeballs for whatever code of the year they like. Hobbyists, students, and professionals could use SmartSuite as a model for learning and maybe even a recruiting tool for IBM.
http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/curtis_mayfield/superfly.html
?
Or, can it sing "Fly Like an Eagle"?
I think I'm going to develop a window-border gunky misting system to keep this critters grounded, to gunk up their flappers. And, I'll design a "force field" to short them out if they pass the window sill.
VirtualBox. It's friendlier, easier, and damned convenient. I didn't give a RAT'S ASS about the two particular no-virtualization allowed for Basic and Home Premium. And, why SHOULD I or anyone have. It's an onerous, specious, vicious, odious clause. The lawyers and execs who inserted it should be flogged.
That, I dare say, is (on IBM's part) BULLSHIT.
Surely, they have their own (or can sue microsoft for) logs and trace files and compiler streams to show what is msoft contribution and IBM's own invention. Separate that. But, first: expose to Open Source developers (who'll do it for free) the functional app. Then, cripple the functionality and challenge or compensate them to restore the functionality with Open Source equivalents.
The SAME could be done for Lotus SmartSuite. I am almost SURE of it. They just probably are afraid of igniting a patent war with msoft, and msoft has no qualms about outright destroying ANY company. I wouldn't put it past msoft to "arrange biological crash" to any persons who suddenly have the magic bullet that would ruin microsoft.
IBM only need get some 50 pilot developers together. Sequester them for 6 months. Keep them the FUCK OUT of the IBM main culture (I have NO doubts that some sections of IBM are internally confounding SmartSuite's ability to become a nuisance or danger to msoft, as in closeted ms shareholders/stockholders). Keep them AWAY from IBM lawyers. Give them ALL the compilers, tools, food, family ombudsmen/women and pay them $180,000 each to crank out something 25x better than the so-called Symphony. Dump oo.O and rewrite the Lotus SmartSuite in the same appearance but decouple it from older limitations. Just rebuild it based on OBSERVING SmartSuite. Sure, look at the IBM/Lotus internals, but otherwise rebuild SS from scratch with new tools.
I am SICK of the snow job IBM and Lotus let perpetuate. oo.O has some nice stuff, but I will NEVER give up SmartSuite for oo.O. oo.O is just not compelling enough. Sadly, many oo.O developers are either too cheap, or under lawyers orders, to NOT even LOOK at (for $5.00 or $21.00) Lotus SmartSuite 9.8 or 9.5 CDs. Even SmartSuite Millenium is not substantially different from 9.5 and 9.8.
WAKE UP, IBM. C'mon.
INT WTF!!!!
Kick my ASS. That blog.mike link above has pron on it, so if you're at work, DON'T go there. Sorry about that. SHIT! I only saw the laptop, and scrolled to some text, but not all the way down, not until I submitted.
It would be NICE if Slash allowed for oh-shit editing, (say, remove a URL, but maybe not the plain editorial text...).
Again, sorry. Really sorry.
MOD PARENT UP!!!!
(It's AMAZING how many people do not read critically and constructively here.)
This is JUST the sort of solution I think I am looking for, although $300 is a bit steep for me these days. If it were, say, $200, I'd love it for CAD work. Having USB means, it seems to me, avoiding some issues with X-server configurations, but I could be wrong. It also seems to mean not needing a beefy video card.
See, I use a Gateway P-6301:
http://www.notebooks.com/2007/10/11/gateway-p6301-and-p6822-notebooks-the-holidays/
http://blog.miqike.com/index.php?load=read&id=329
(No, and sadly, I have failed miserably at getting ndiswrapper to work, so no wireless. Have to go with a USB wireless antenna. And, no bluetooth, so I'll have to find a USB based b/t device, too. Multimedia panel doesn't work, other than lighting up if I press buttons or swipe the volume panel. Otherwise, the BEST thing in it for me is the serendipitous discovery of 2-drive bay in it, accessed on the bottom side, and, nicely, not underneath the keyboard.)
and it has 2 MB of shared RAM, up to 256. When using VirtualBox (which grants only 128 MB max to video) but, with vista running inside, and PCLOS2007 as the host, the system fast enough for me. In PCLOS, I have all kinds of kewl composite effects (tho, no Compiz or Beryl fun yet) yet even running natively on the same hardware, I see a 1.0 windows experience index for both business/gaming. 5.9, oddly, for hard drive (well, it's not odd), and 4.2 & then 4.3 for some other item I can't remember.
So, I'm finding it really nice to have to not regret my purchase of this laptop since I care more about splitting screen activities (one for CAD, the other for documentation (word processing and database stuff) than about gaming on this laptop. (I installed the SOF Gold from 1999/2000 in Vista in PCLOS, and it wouldn't even START or run graphics. But, in Linux (the Loki version/production of SOF Gold), it ran, but ran crappily, unbearably laggy.)
Probably many of us would love a 17" laptop display (less the weight, though) in a laptop, BUT not be forced to spend $120 or so more for a beefier graphics card. If I can/could scrounge up some $250 and find this thing on sale, it would be kewl.
I just wonder, though: Is anyone making or considering making LCDs that share or offload from the machine most of the graphics work? I mean, a GPU in the LCD? It could even be just off-board RAM inserted into a slot. This way, maybe the hardware could more intelligently communicate with the laptop and speed up the laptop's performance.
Also, it would be nice if the honkin $300 LCDs would become thinner and lighter so as to be carried as a second LCD for those who tote the thing around but don't want a suitcase. I wouldn't suggest showing off in Borders or such with the 2nd LCD (it'd look like you were dragging your office there), but it could be quite useful for displays (when a $500 projector might not be desired, even if it's as small as half a cereal box), especially to share a presentation with clients sitting opposite of you, and when you need breathing room, OR to discourage them from looking at any passwords you might have.
If one could self-design apps for this split-screen (say, as in some X-server options), the user could have the "client/customer" panel that lacks sensitive fields shown on the "operator"/consultant side of the app.
Hope I didn't ramble too much.
One good stragety is to add oil to the pipes. You know, to increase teh horsespowers, you have to add more viciouscosity to pump the datas through the tubes.
Your Senator...
Too bad Diebold can't just "Die BOLD"... so the rest of us can die bowled (over)...
"YOOZ Netscape... YOOZ Netscape... YOOZ Netscape... YOOZ Netscape..."
"YOOZ Op-ra... YOOZ Op-ra... YOOZ Op-ra"
"YOOZ FireFox... YOOZ FireFox... YOOZ FireFox..."
"YOOZ Konq-RER... YOOZ Konq-RER... YOOZ Konq-RER..."
"Icy Hot"...
They are still living in a shell. (wink)
... "YOOZ Netscape... YOOZ Netscape... YOOZ Netscape... YOOZ Netscape..." from, oh, around 1999?
Well, seems like RIAA could be a scratched record... "They had it coming... They had it coming... They had it coming... They had it coming..."...
LASR Disc (Like A Scratched Record)
... 'unmitigated, indecypherable, unattuned asshole!'? (Captcha: attune)
LOOKS like they sent a fax. Just the facts, ma'am...
But seriously, with a fax, there's a communications line that can be disrupted. Can a quantum teleportation "instruction" to "state-mimic" be disrupted? (I don't know, and that's why I'm asking")...
OK, I've got karma to burn! Not ONE goddamn minute my post is up, and some close-minded, stickler-for-being-on-topic BASTARD mods me "off-topic". Get a CLUE you cretin. Teleportation topic discussion is NOT just for finger-twiddling geeks or on-topic-Nazis, you twit. Why don't you open your mind? If this had been a discussion of a new kind of nuke discovery by a relative of Einstein or Fermi or others, moral and ethical questioning would SURELY pop upon Slashdot, and all KINDS of people would get mods other than "off-topic".
Jeez. YOU seem like a teleporation-scrambling target. Why don't you let 50 or 150 people weigh in?
Oh, I forgot: In Star Trek the tractor beams and deflector grids have been used to entrap or destabilize targets, but the crew never used them in a Dr. Evil or maniacal, gleeful way...
I will venture to say the governments would be all to happy to have precision site-to-SOME/ANY-site lock-on capability. They'd rather snatch and destroy living targets than spend the effort to insert humans to do the snatching. Why lose expendable assets (human, allied/aligned soldiers) when taking out the enemy (or enema) means only needing to lock on and scramble?
With a weaponization of such quantum technology, simple bombs or surveillance devices could also be inserted, with quantum self-destruct structures that respond to counter-intel sweeps, or simply devolve/vaporize when the temperature reaches some design-imposed level. This could be to act as a weapon, or to enhance "plausible deniability".
Worse, as a weapon of torture for those who are maniacs or pranksters who get their hands on one, we (or the future people) might read about rulers, bolts, rocks, and other foreign matter being precision-beamed/teleported into people, animals, or even into security or safety glass in buildings.
Imagine this as the perfect bomb: taking OUT or comproMISING structural members of any building, fortification, dam, tower, transmission/reception site, etc. If used on skyscrapers, the toll worldwide would be, well, ummm, "mind-bending". Who the hell would want to go to work in Chrysler Building, or Petronas or Taipei 101 KNOWING that whole floors are collapsing in for no outward (visible/believable) reason. Oh, the reason would definitely be from outside (assuming the teleporter is not transported into the building...)
And, no, I didn't read this in any books. I've been for decades wondering why in Star Trek we've NEVER seen the Federation or non-Fed use of the teleportation technology to undermine the target ships. Always (with exception of I think one Voyager episode) using phasers, quantum or older torpedoes, outright bombs, etc. The transporter was always used as a utility insertion/extraction/rescue/logistics device, not as a weapon. Had I had one, and had enemies who could not localize me, I'd certainly consider using such as device. But, I'm not a time traveler, don't have enemies (that I know of) who'd want me dead RIGHT NOW, and I (right now) deem certain acts as crossing the line. Even going after certain presidents would not be worth it. Too many unforeseeable consequences might unfold. I wouldn't want to be personally responsible for it (unless I could see into the future and KNEW that I'd be saving more innocent lives (not innocent by or for government reasons, but by higher truths and most politicians would care to believe) than harming.
Hopefully, teleportation technology continues to elude physicists. And, don't tell me about all the "good" things it could do. For one, the things might consume enormous amounts of energy. If they do, then that energy could be harnessed instead for removing a lot of pain, suffering, starvation, hunger and joblessness. But military and government bean counters and strategists all have agendas. Basically, if I'd stumbled upon teleportation tech, I'd probably destroy it and hope it was the ONLY copy. So, better hope I'M not the one some alien encounters. No one government can be trusted with such technology. Not at THIS point in our evolution. Hell, not even 2 or 5 or 25 governments. NON can be trusted.
Nuff said?
"Could have sworn I heard somebody GURGLE something"? Thinking as an ex sailor, I'd say that if you work at an academic institution, that would give new meaning to "headmaster"...
Yep, the thing is to NOT be in a hurry moving. Now, I'm renting an in-law-like room. $400/month, so I can resume dealing with debts.
... Someday, Someday, but not in california, ...
But, personally, I don't believe in "old charmers" or other snow-job descriptives. I realize that new-construction materials-loaded structures have formaldehyde and other heinous chemical treatments, but, to me anything with lead paint, rat infestation, old-world (US pre-1985) construction, cheapo-gymn/manufacturing-floor-like carpets and new walls inside code-condemnable buildings is just shameful. Sadly, it's just to expensive for owners, unprofitable to undertake. And, the greedy city and counter governments would just relieve the building owners of more or new taxes, ostensibly to socially care for the homeless/etc. I'm only grousing because my one-time (~3-years held) home was new, from the ground up, and I watched her go up almost every weekend.