Wow. I had no idea there were so many unclued MS fanboys waiting to come out of the woodwork. Rather than try to continue to try responding to each individual napalm attack, let me just make a few blanket statements. 1) You love Windows and all Microsoft products. That's great. If you like paying through the nose for a buggy, bloated system, that's fine with me. I don't really care, although I have to admit that your blind zealotry is pretty entertaining. I, personally, detest Windows. I've used every version from 3.1 to XP, and haven't found one yet that doesn't make me feel like BillG is humping me slowly from behind. New versions/patches just let Bill tweak my nipples during this process. 2)Some of you claim I'm too stupid to know how to use Windows, since I have to reinstall when something chews up the registry. Some of you claim that, since (according to you) I obviously orgasm over the thought of recompiling a kernel, I'm too smart to use Windows. Please decide which I am and try your flame again. 3) Just because a bad patch has never bitten you does not mean that bad patches don't exist. I've never been shot by a handgun, so all handguns are perfectly safe, right? 4) Linux is not perfect. Linux boxes have been hacked in the past. Thank you for repeatedly pointing this out. I had no idea, while I was downloading kernel/app patches, that Linux could have flaws. Now I am edumacted. I bow to your superior mastery of the obvious. 5) I'm not a Linux zealot. I like Linux, because, unlike Windows, it just works. No, it's not perfect. Nothing is. But the fact is, I can get things done in Linux without jumping through so many hoops.
Before you all pile on me again, let me say that I have been a Microsoft developer for seven years. I've worked with VC++, VB, ASP,.Net, SQL Server, Access, WSH and probably any other MS dev product you'd care to name. Unlike you guys, I'm not just talking out of my ass. I used to like MS products. I used to use them religiously, but one too many product reinstalls, system wipes, hacks, and infuriating, inexplicable incompatibilites have changed my mind. You guys have fun with your Playskool OS. I'll be over here getting some work done.
BTW, I found this response particularly amusing: Grow the hell up and spend some time away from Slashdot--it's turned you into a raving, frothing fanboy zealot who lashes out in any way possible to defend the penis size of his religion/operating system.
Excuse me while I laugh myself into a hemorrhage over the irony reflected in this post.
Call bullshit all you like. XP 1 slowed some of our development systems to an almost unusable crawl, and the slammer patch shotgunned our SQL server (Hours of system rebuilding fun!) Also, there were several patches that hosed our exchange server, but since that box was not my monkey (thank God), I don't know too many of the details. It's good that you have never had a problem with a Microsoft patch, but just because you've managed to dodge the bullet doesn't mean everybody else has. It CERTAINLY doesn't mean that there was no bullet.
And yes, a Linux patch could theoretically hose a system, if it was a kernel patch (although I've never heard of this happening), but if a patch hoses a service, just rip out THAT SERVICE and re-install it. No need to roll the whole box. It's called "modular" for a reason.
Who said automatic linux updates were a good idea? I don't remember saying that. Then again, I'm on a lot of medication to make THE BUGS STOP EATING MY BRAIN, so I may have forgotten saying something.
What bad patches, you ask? Lessee, off the top of my head, I remember one that took down our NT4.0 web server (to fix a WM_TIMER vuln, IIRC), the slammer patch, and XP Service Pack 1. They all left yummy cruncy computer bits lying on my desk! Wheee!!
That having been said, yes, I believe it's far less likely that a Linux patch would destabilize my system, since a Linux patch ONLY HAS TO PATCH THE PROGRAM IT'S INTENDED FOR, and not worry about whether a haywire process from some other app will make the whole box implode.
Yes! Broad overgeneralizations! I love it when some troll decides that "all users are stupid" and that "all linux nerds are lonely bitter men who need to wash." (My wife, a long-time Red Hat user, might take exception to your generalizations).
Yes, slashdot is visited primarily by people who got a lot of wedgies in high school. They are also intelligent, technologically oriented, and despite what you seem to think, many of them have social lives. Surprisingly, I think most of them would rather their system Just Work. It would make everybody's jobs (and lives) so much easier, especially when fixing a relative's computer for the nth time... not because they love installing patches and recompiling kernels, but because people need the help they can provide.
So yes, slashdot has intelligent, insightful, and kind people. Fortunately, it also has people like you, who make it truly entertaining.
Yes! Because I love it when a patch screws up my system and forces a reinstall! Having automatic update/apply turned on lets me blame MS instead of myself for installing their craptacular patches that eat my registry!
Woohoo!! Go automatic patching!!
And yes, I pretty much only use the win box on weekends, too... for games. Forgive me if I don't feel like doing a bunch a research to determine a) if I actually need a patch, b) if it will dick me over when I install it. All that for what has essentially become a very, very expensive Playstation? I don't think so.
Ah, yes. Because we have all kinds of time to keep up with Windows updates. In fact, I find myself scanning windowsupdate.com, forlornly pining for new patches, because my life is so bitter and empty, and downloading patches is the only bright spot in my dreary existance.
Oh, wait, never mind. I just Firewall-And-Forget(TM). Run my windows box behing three layers of security, and I don't have to worry so much about getting patches the second they come out.
Wrong. As a self-proclaimed "computer hobbyist," i find the upgrade process for most open-source products MUCH easier than the convoluted, hair-pulling nail-biting windows process.
I don't enjoy upgrading. I enjoy playing with new features (I almost had a climactic event when I found OOo's "Export to PDF" function), but I HATE upgrading. Hate it hate it hate it.
I've given up on windows. On my home network, i have a linux box for productivity and a $2000 game box. That's all windows is good for anymore, at least for me. I use the latest versions of MS software at work, and frankly, I don't see ANYTHING (with the possible exception of.net) worth upgrading for. Exactly the opposite, in fact. Access has extremely irritating new behaviors, and Word, Outlook and Excel look and act almost identically to their older version, except for a much-expanded buglist.
Sorry for the rant, but every time I upgrade MS software, I spent lots of money and time for the opportunity to lose more data and functionality.
If you need document compatibility from MSWord, save it to an rtf file. 5 mouse clicks. That's it. Opens in OO.o just fine. Even the most brain-dead customer can be trained to do this. Doesn't have the "Super-Mega-Microsoft-Man!" formatting, but for transferred docs, I find that it's rarely, if ever, needed. Granted, I'm a programmer, and I usually only receive bad data and technical documents in Word, but still...
Remember, SCO's purpose here is not to win, or even survive, it's to spread disinformation and fear about open source and Linux. The *real* win comes when SCO is exposed as the passel of lying, greedy, goat-molesting asshats they are, and when their claims about "IP Problems with Linux" are shoved firmly where they belong (namely, certain executives' orifices.
Orifices? Orifii? What's the plural of orifice? Anybody?
BREAK OUT THE TINFOIL HATS AND THE BRAINRAY DESCRAMBLERS!!!! THEY ARE COMING AFTER US NOW!!!
Seriously, does this scare the piss out of anyone else besides me? I can't trust the government to figure out what my CORRECT FREAKIN' ADDRESS is after I send it to the IRS FOUR FREAKIN' TIMES. And now they want to blow up my PC if they think I'm a criminal?
"Git the kids in the bunker maw! The revenoors 'r comin'!"
The main problem is, people who use excel don't realize when they've outgrown it. As a consultant, I've had to turn any number of "excel databases" into relational dbs, and there is no "just export" to it. If the data is well organized and laid out, and if nobody's dicked up the settings 40,000 rows down, and if you don't run across one of Microsoft's fun little undocumented import bugs, then yes, it is quite simple. I've never ever run into any moderately complex excel spreadsheet that I could "just export" into any kind of usable relational format
WARNING WARNING OLD GUY REMINISCENCE ALERT I remember one customer we had who would send out calculated spreadsheets through e-mail to all their customers (about 400), who (theoretically) would fill them out, recaculate them, and send them back in, where they would be compiled into one monster spreadsheet on a monthly basis. Needless to say, between excel versioning problems, miscommunication of expectations, and numerous stupid user errors, the whole thing was a mess on the scale of Exxon Valdez. They had a FTE whose ONLY job was to compile this monster spreadsheet, and she was severely stressed. They called us in to "convert" their system to an RDBMS, but they want to keep their method of collecting data from customers because "that's what they're used to."
Slashdot Mirror
Oh, I am terribly sorry. I'd already answered this, but to somebody else. It's hard to tell you trolls apart
Check this and this.
YAFI. PGAL. TYVM.
Love,
Whisker The Mad (aka Whisker The Mad)
Teehee! You're so cute when you froth!
Go read this.
Wow. I had no idea there were so many unclued MS fanboys waiting to come out of the woodwork. Rather than try to continue to try responding to each individual napalm attack, let me just make a few blanket statements.
.Net, SQL Server, Access, WSH and probably any other MS dev product you'd care to name. Unlike you guys, I'm not just talking out of my ass. I used to like MS products. I used to use them religiously, but one too many product reinstalls, system wipes, hacks, and infuriating, inexplicable incompatibilites have changed my mind. You guys have fun with your Playskool OS. I'll be over here getting some work done.
1) You love Windows and all Microsoft products. That's great. If you like paying through the nose for a buggy, bloated system, that's fine with me. I don't really care, although I have to admit that your blind zealotry is pretty entertaining. I, personally, detest Windows. I've used every version from 3.1 to XP, and haven't found one yet that doesn't make me feel like BillG is humping me slowly from behind. New versions/patches just let Bill tweak my nipples during this process.
2)Some of you claim I'm too stupid to know how to use Windows, since I have to reinstall when something chews up the registry. Some of you claim that, since (according to you) I obviously orgasm over the thought of recompiling a kernel, I'm too smart to use Windows. Please decide which I am and try your flame again.
3) Just because a bad patch has never bitten you does not mean that bad patches don't exist. I've never been shot by a handgun, so all handguns are perfectly safe, right?
4) Linux is not perfect. Linux boxes have been hacked in the past. Thank you for repeatedly pointing this out. I had no idea, while I was downloading kernel/app patches, that Linux could have flaws. Now I am edumacted. I bow to your superior mastery of the obvious.
5) I'm not a Linux zealot. I like Linux, because, unlike Windows, it just works. No, it's not perfect. Nothing is. But the fact is, I can get things done in Linux without jumping through so many hoops.
Before you all pile on me again, let me say that I have been a Microsoft developer for seven years. I've worked with VC++, VB, ASP,
BTW, I found this response particularly amusing:
Grow the hell up and spend some time away from Slashdot--it's turned you into a raving, frothing fanboy zealot who lashes out in any way possible to defend the penis size of his religion/operating system.
Excuse me while I laugh myself into a hemorrhage over the irony reflected in this post.
Call bullshit all you like. XP 1 slowed some of our development systems to an almost unusable crawl, and the slammer patch shotgunned our SQL server (Hours of system rebuilding fun!) Also, there were several patches that hosed our exchange server, but since that box was not my monkey (thank God), I don't know too many of the details. It's good that you have never had a problem with a Microsoft patch, but just because you've managed to dodge the bullet doesn't mean everybody else has. It CERTAINLY doesn't mean that there was no bullet.
Oh, and the XP SP1 patch flaw WAS all over slashdot.
And yes, a Linux patch could theoretically hose a system, if it was a kernel patch (although I've never heard of this happening), but if a patch hoses a service, just rip out THAT SERVICE and re-install it. No need to roll the whole box. It's called "modular" for a reason.
Who said automatic linux updates were a good idea? I don't remember saying that. Then again, I'm on a lot of medication to make THE BUGS STOP EATING MY BRAIN, so I may have forgotten saying something.
:)
What bad patches, you ask? Lessee, off the top of my head, I remember one that took down our NT4.0 web server (to fix a WM_TIMER vuln, IIRC), the slammer patch, and XP Service Pack 1. They all left yummy cruncy computer bits lying on my desk! Wheee!!
That having been said, yes, I believe it's far less likely that a Linux patch would destabilize my system, since a Linux patch ONLY HAS TO PATCH THE PROGRAM IT'S INTENDED FOR, and not worry about whether a haywire process from some other app will make the whole box implode.
Nice troll, though
Yes! Broad overgeneralizations! I love it when some troll decides that "all users are stupid" and that "all linux nerds are lonely bitter men who need to wash." (My wife, a long-time Red Hat user, might take exception to your generalizations).
Yes, slashdot is visited primarily by people who got a lot of wedgies in high school. They are also intelligent, technologically oriented, and despite what you seem to think, many of them have social lives. Surprisingly, I think most of them would rather their system Just Work. It would make everybody's jobs (and lives) so much easier, especially when fixing a relative's computer for the nth time... not because they love installing patches and recompiling kernels, but because people need the help they can provide.
So yes, slashdot has intelligent, insightful, and kind people. Fortunately, it also has people like you, who make it truly entertaining.
Yes! Because I love it when a patch screws up my system and forces a reinstall! Having automatic update/apply turned on lets me blame MS instead of myself for installing their craptacular patches that eat my registry!
Woohoo!! Go automatic patching!!
And yes, I pretty much only use the win box on weekends, too... for games. Forgive me if I don't feel like doing a bunch a research to determine a) if I actually need a patch, b) if it will dick me over when I install it. All that for what has essentially become a very, very expensive Playstation? I don't think so.
So what niche is Gentoo aimed at? Mandrake is for n00bs, Redhat's for suits, Slack is for people who have an unhealthy obsession with config files.
I've been looking for a new distro lately. Where does Gentoo fall in this list?
Ah, yes. Because we have all kinds of time to keep up with Windows updates. In fact, I find myself scanning windowsupdate.com, forlornly pining for new patches, because my life is so bitter and empty, and downloading patches is the only bright spot in my dreary existance.
Oh, wait, never mind. I just Firewall-And-Forget(TM). Run my windows box behing three layers of security, and I don't have to worry so much about getting patches the second they come out.
Sorta like buying software, huh?
:)
Oops, I'll shut up now
Wrong.
.net) worth upgrading for. Exactly the opposite, in fact. Access has extremely irritating new behaviors, and Word, Outlook and Excel look and act almost identically to their older version, except for a much-expanded buglist.
As a self-proclaimed "computer hobbyist," i find the upgrade process for most open-source products MUCH easier than the convoluted, hair-pulling nail-biting windows process.
I don't enjoy upgrading. I enjoy playing with new features (I almost had a climactic event when I found OOo's "Export to PDF" function), but I HATE upgrading.
Hate it hate it hate it.
I've given up on windows. On my home network, i have a linux box for productivity and a $2000 game box. That's all windows is good for anymore, at least for me. I use the latest versions of MS software at work, and frankly, I don't see ANYTHING (with the possible exception of
Sorry for the rant, but every time I upgrade MS software, I spent lots of money and time for the opportunity to lose more data and functionality.
So please, /.ers, stop thinking that you have to have an opinion on everything, even the things that you don't really know about.
Doesn't that violate the w3c or something?
First I set up my e-mail. Then the top ten programs just install themselves!
1. Magistr
2. MyDoom
3. Badtrans....
And on another day, *you* will discover a MS developer who uses such things, or, indeed, any appropriate documentation procedures whatsoever.
...Then again, maybe not.
If you need document compatibility from MSWord, save it to an rtf file. 5 mouse clicks. That's it. Opens in OO.o just fine. Even the most brain-dead customer can be trained to do this. Doesn't have the "Super-Mega-Microsoft-Man!" formatting, but for transferred docs, I find that it's rarely, if ever, needed. Granted, I'm a programmer, and I usually only receive bad data and technical documents in Word, but still...
Am I the only one that initially read this as "STFU" Armor?
I'd buy some!!!
... for my Windows servers. My last co. almost got burned by MS's code theft issues in SQL Server.
Of course, the premiums would be a stone bitch...
-----------
They have the right to say what they want. They just don't have the right to have anybody to listen to them.
In short, YES.
Remember, SCO's purpose here is not to win, or even survive, it's to spread disinformation and fear about open source and Linux. The *real* win comes when SCO is exposed as the passel of lying, greedy, goat-molesting asshats they are, and when their claims about "IP Problems with Linux" are shoved firmly where they belong (namely, certain executives' orifices.
Orifices? Orifii? What's the plural of orifice? Anybody?
....ewwwwww!
:P
That's like strapping a boat motor to a cheetah.
Not a bitch... after all, it's not, um, rocket science...
nvermid.
BREAK OUT THE TINFOIL HATS AND THE BRAINRAY DESCRAMBLERS!!!! THEY ARE COMING AFTER US NOW!!!
Seriously, does this scare the piss out of anyone else besides me? I can't trust the government to figure out what my CORRECT FREAKIN' ADDRESS is after I send it to the IRS FOUR FREAKIN' TIMES. And now they want to blow up my PC if they think I'm a criminal?
"Git the kids in the bunker maw! The revenoors 'r comin'!"
An all new way I can watch for SCO news spikes!!!
The main problem is, people who use excel don't realize when they've outgrown it. As a consultant, I've had to turn any number of "excel databases" into relational dbs, and there is no "just export" to it. If the data is well organized and laid out, and if nobody's dicked up the settings 40,000 rows down, and if you don't run across one of Microsoft's fun little undocumented import bugs, then yes, it is quite simple. I've never ever run into any moderately complex excel spreadsheet that I could "just export" into any kind of usable relational format
WARNING WARNING OLD GUY REMINISCENCE ALERT
I remember one customer we had who would send out calculated spreadsheets through e-mail to all their customers (about 400), who (theoretically) would fill them out, recaculate them, and send them back in, where they would be compiled into one monster spreadsheet on a monthly basis. Needless to say, between excel versioning problems, miscommunication of expectations, and numerous stupid user errors, the whole thing was a mess on the scale of Exxon Valdez. They had a FTE whose ONLY job was to compile this monster spreadsheet, and she was severely stressed. They called us in to "convert" their system to an RDBMS, but they want to keep their method of collecting data from customers because "that's what they're used to."
KILL KILL KILL