"First of all, "it's not as evil as x" is a pretty good reason to embrace capitalist democracies, when x equals literally everything else anyone's come up with."
IF that's true then why don't you compare it against finland or something instead of iraq?
"Erm, no. For some reason, retards like you seem to confuse society with government."
So socials security, medicare, welfare, medicaid, free k-12 education are not socialist programs then huh? BHAHAHAHA.
"Believe it or not, most sane people don't share your fucked up beliefs -- disagreeing with you makes them pretty much normal, not some jackbooted religious icon of all you believe is evil."
Err it's not my belief, it's the word of god. God said love of money is the root of all evil not me. God said it is harder for a rich man to get into heaven then for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, not me.
So once again we are reduced to the "at least it's not as evil as X" argument.
I should say however that socialism is the only govt that seems to work. Even the US which is very pro capitalist spends the majority of it's funds on socialist programs like social security, medicare, medicaid, free education for children, subsidies for farmers and every other industry known to man. So far no purely capitalist state has been able to survive more then a few years.
So? Does that make it any less evil in the eyes of God?
Is that all capitalism has got going for it? It's better then a cesspool? That's a great motto for capitalism isn't it? "Capitalism, it's better then a cesspool!".
LOL.
If you don't believe in god, or if you believe that god is wrong when he says love of money is the root of all evil then capitalism is not evil. If you believe in god though then capitalism is nothing less then the codifications of the seven deadly sins into law.
"What is worse some naked pictures of people in prison (done by a handful of soldiers), or beheading civilians on TV?"
You think that's all that was done over there? The army itself admitted to killing dozens of prisoners by beatings (THe armies own coroner listed the cause of death as murder), raping the prisoners with inatimate objects, dunking the prisoners heads in water filled with shit (so called waterboarding), crucifying prisoners to metal beds, injecting prisoners with expiremental drugs, strapping prisoners in cpecially made chairs designed to cause pain for extended periods of time, torturing prisoners by freezing them and then baking them, making prisoners masturbate into each others mouths, handcuffing prisoners into painful positions for days at a time.
Now remember this is what the army actually admitted to. Imagine the kind of shit that goes on that they don't admit to.
So in a nutshell the US has absolutely no moral highground over saddam. Just like saddam our govt has raped and murdered people. Saying that we raped less people doesn't really cut it does it?
"What the real threat now is the technology and materials being available to radical groups to build their own bombs, or these groups getting a working bomb from a nuclear country."
Right, too bad we are too busy invading iraq to do anything about any of that.
Let me tell you something.
If today some arab came up to me and told me he was going to drop a bomb in the US I would not turn him in. I would not help him either but I would not report it and I might even say "good luck" just in the hope you and people who think like you would be amongst the dead. I don't think I am alone in that either. Right now so many people hate americans that they would not go out of their way to stop somebody from harming them. That's why you will lose this war on terror. Too many people hate your guts and the terrorists know that.
You don't have to wait for that. You could simply stop buying US made products. That would get the message across. Imagine the phone calls the CEO of coke and nike would make to the president if their overseas sales fell off by 20% or more. You can bet your ass the US govt would behave differently after getting spanked by their corporate masters.
So just reach for the localy made soda instead of coke and locally made shoes instead of nike. You will be helping your local companies grow and you will be helping to get US policy changed.
It's not that hard people, how you spend your money is more important then how you vote or how you protest.
"The discussion is in regards to the root of the DNS. This is NOT the Internet! The Internet is composed of many technologies, where the DNS is only a minor one."
How sure are you that your senator understands the difference? Maybe they are indeed advocating controlling the internet and not just the DNS servers.
The US is the most capitalistic nation on earth. Capitalism is about the love of money. The love of money is the root of all evil (God says so anyway).
"With that being said, why would the military want to kill animals unintentionally? "
Why not? People who would kill in order to keep a country occupied would have no moral compunction to kill animals for any reason.
"I know that the military is viewed as some large killing machine bent on world domination, but remember that there's real actual people forming our armed services."
Right, and those people all believe that it's ok kill human beings who object to your occupation of their country. They also have no moral objection to invading and occupying countries either. Why would they care about killing whales?
That sounds all noble and shit doesn't it. The reality is that the Navy trains to kill in order to further American Interests not to defend America. Take Iraq for example, iraq didn't attack america, it had nothing to do with 9/11.
The reality is that the military kills to increase profits for American companies which is what furthers american interests.
"Because for the most part animals really aren't a major threat the way other humans are?"
What does that have to do with anything? Just today the US military killed 20 people in Iraq. Why? Because those people objected to the US occupying their country.
If you can kill people because they don't want you in their country then pretty much anything goes.
The politicians know how to push their buttons. Kill your congressman? If you the fags will get married and your wife will leave you. The A-rabs will nuke you. PETA will force you to become a vegeterian. They will take your guns away and ban footbal. Liberals hate america don't cha know, you don't want the UN running your life do you?
"What struck me about this article was the Navy's response, namely that they were already doing most of what the NRDC wanted. They sounded a bit bewildered, actually."
No you read the article wrong. The actual quote is "Navy spokesman Lt. William Marks said the Navy already is doing many of the things demanded in the suit." Notice the weasel word "many". You got fooled by the weasel word "many" which became "most" in your head and instantly convinced you that the Navy is a harmless organization who would never harm any animals while the Natural Resources Defence Council cares nothing about the environment but is merely seeking to raise millions of dollars so they can drink expensive champagne and drive around in Feraris.
The Navy PR people are trained in psy-ops. They do this for a living. They know how to spin the story to hook people like you.
Well I hate to interjects actual facts into this conversation but PETA is not the group that filed the lawsuit, it was Natural Resources Defense Council.
So who do you trust more? The US Military or the Natural Resources Defence Council? I'd say that's a no brainer.
No you are just making an accusation without any facts whatsoever. Since you were modded up to four I guess that's what passes for insightful around here.
"Just because they carry weapons doesn't mean the Navy are always uncaring brutes"
These people are training to kill humans, why would they care about killing a few animals?
You know what amazes me? Everybody in the US knows that but still they don't care. They don't even care enough to goddamn vote once every four fucking years.
What a bunch of useless retards we all turned out to be huh?
compiling expires your session, you still have to log back in and then navigate to the page you were looking at. Building takes time and during the lifecycle of your web development process you might have build thousands if not tens of thousands of times.
"But you're being too harsh on ASP.NET development. As others have noted, you don't need to use the debug button (and really shouldn't, unless you're *actually* debugging). You can just open a browser window, build and refresh."
Building expires your session so your refresh doesn't work. You have to log in and then navigate to the page you were having a problem with.
"ou don't have to compile PHP, it's true, but doing a build in C# is generally very fast."
Still slower then no build at all. Multiply the build time by thousands and send an invoice to Bill Gates for wasting your time so much.
"DataBinding is a pretty huge time-saver. "
Only when you are coding, it makes maintenance a nightmare. You save on the initial stage of your application lifecycle but suffer horribly during the rest of your applications lifetime. You know the maintenance, debugging phase that is 90% of all applications lifetime. Besides which it's a bad idea, it's always been a bad idea, it will continue to be a bad idea. I can't think of one accomplished programmer who reccomends it, I can't think of one respected book on programming that reccomends it. Not one. There are even best practices and white papers made by MS that don't reccomend it.
"Accomplishing a given task generally requires that you write many more lines of PHP than it would C# in ASP.NET."
That's not true. PHP has a such a huge and rich library that you can accomplish amazing tasks in just a few lines of code using other peoples efforts. The PEAR library is huge and the amount of third party libraries staggers the imagination. Take a look at PHPlens for example. Another think you can do in PHP is to start with a complete system like Nuke or Xoops, with no code whatsoever you can set up a web site with full authentication, plug in architecture, fine grained permissions, database abstraction, and just about anything else you can think of. With no code at all!. You only write the code if you want to customize something. Face it the PHP community so much more generous then the ASP.NET community and that's what makes using PHP hundreds of times more productive then ASP.NET.
"i can understand if you think that the only people who should be able to learn linux are venerated programmers who have gone through a thirty year initiation in obscure computer ritual... no, check that, i don't understand that at all. in what way do you benefit by alienating people like myself - the non-programming but enthusiastic "power users" who know enough to advocate linux to their friends and family, and set up a cheap internet box for an impoverished friend with the spare pc sitting in the attic."
I think that by eliminating the casual programmer and the non programmer we gain higher quality code and a better reputation for reliability. It's as simple as that. People will judge the OS based on the apps they use, if 90% of the apps they use are crap written by half assed programmers then they will blame the OS for it. Just like they blame the lack of drivers on the linux kernel developers now.
"on a final note - linux doesn't need to compete with itself to capture best practice and improve. "
I call bullshit on that. So far linux has gotten better by competing with itself. That's what open source is all about. The competition between KDE and GNOME (as well as the lighter weight windowing toolkits) has lead to a plethora of innovations and continues to do so. If we just settle on one all that will happen is that linux will mimic windows for eternity and nobody wants that.
Anyway it's all a moot point. You have no way to punish people for working on a windowing system you disaprove of, you have no way to punish people for using a windowing system you disaprove of.
Why continue to bleat on about this issue when you have no idea how you would ever enforce such a rule?
Internet is pretty reliable by and large but that's not what Ballmer is freaking out about. He is freaking out about the fact that web apps make life easier for corporations to write and deploy apps in their internal network and makes windows redundant in the corporate IT systems.
RIght now if the corporate network went down everybody stops working anyway, no email, no web, no database, no shared files, nothing. It's in that context that web apps hurt windows. If linux ever started spreading on the corporate desktop Ballmer would start shitting brick the size of kansas.
Slap a control on the form, write some code, hit debug button, wait for the application to compile and internet explorer to launch, log in to your application, navigate to the page you want to see, notice your mistake....
Fix your code, hit the debug button, wait for your application to compile and internet explorer to launch, log in to your application, navigate to the page you want to test, (notice a mistake or desire a new behavior) repeat all over again.
PHP development in a nutshell.
Write HTML by hand, write code by hand, launch firefox, log in to your application, navigate to the page you want, notice a mistake...
Change code (or html), hit the reload button, THERE IS NO STEP THREE!!!!!!.
ASP.NET has got to be the most unproductive way to code web apps ever. Don't even get me started on what a bastard cludge of a language VB.NET is, orElse? andAlso? BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Slashdot Mirror
"First of all, "it's not as evil as x" is a pretty good reason to embrace capitalist democracies, when x equals literally everything else anyone's come up with."
IF that's true then why don't you compare it against finland or something instead of iraq?
"Erm, no. For some reason, retards like you seem to confuse society with government."
So socials security, medicare, welfare, medicaid, free k-12 education are not socialist programs then huh? BHAHAHAHA.
"Believe it or not, most sane people don't share your fucked up beliefs -- disagreeing with you makes them pretty much normal, not some jackbooted religious icon of all you believe is evil."
Err it's not my belief, it's the word of god. God said love of money is the root of all evil not me. God said it is harder for a rich man to get into heaven then for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, not me.
So once again we are reduced to the "at least it's not as evil as X" argument.
I should say however that socialism is the only govt that seems to work. Even the US which is very pro capitalist spends the majority of it's funds on socialist programs like social security, medicare, medicaid, free education for children, subsidies for farmers and every other industry known to man. So far no purely capitalist state has been able to survive more then a few years.
Socialism always seems to win out in the end.
What's the matter? Your ideology conflicting with the word of god too much?
So? Does that make it any less evil in the eyes of God?
Is that all capitalism has got going for it? It's better then a cesspool? That's a great motto for capitalism isn't it? "Capitalism, it's better then a cesspool!".
LOL.
If you don't believe in god, or if you believe that god is wrong when he says love of money is the root of all evil then capitalism is not evil. If you believe in god though then capitalism is nothing less then the codifications of the seven deadly sins into law.
"What is worse some naked pictures of people in prison (done by a handful of soldiers), or beheading civilians on TV?"
You think that's all that was done over there? The army itself admitted to killing dozens of prisoners by beatings (THe armies own coroner listed the cause of death as murder), raping the prisoners with inatimate objects, dunking the prisoners heads in water filled with shit (so called waterboarding), crucifying prisoners to metal beds, injecting prisoners with expiremental drugs, strapping prisoners in cpecially made chairs designed to cause pain for extended periods of time, torturing prisoners by freezing them and then baking them, making prisoners masturbate into each others mouths, handcuffing prisoners into painful positions for days at a time.
Now remember this is what the army actually admitted to. Imagine the kind of shit that goes on that they don't admit to.
So in a nutshell the US has absolutely no moral highground over saddam. Just like saddam our govt has raped and murdered people. Saying that we raped less people doesn't really cut it does it?
"What the real threat now is the technology and materials being available to radical groups to build their own bombs, or these groups getting a working bomb from a nuclear country."
Right, too bad we are too busy invading iraq to do anything about any of that.
Let me tell you something.
If today some arab came up to me and told me he was going to drop a bomb in the US I would not turn him in. I would not help him either but I would not report it and I might even say "good luck" just in the hope you and people who think like you would be amongst the dead. I don't think I am alone in that either. Right now so many people hate americans that they would not go out of their way to stop somebody from harming them. That's why you will lose this war on terror. Too many people hate your guts and the terrorists know that.
"Oh please. You are a moron. We were at WAR, and the alternative was 500,000+ dead on both sides with a LAND invasion. Go beef up on your history."
No the alternative was to accept their surrender and let them keep a little face.
You don't have to wait for that. You could simply stop buying US made products. That would get the message across. Imagine the phone calls the CEO of coke and nike would make to the president if their overseas sales fell off by 20% or more. You can bet your ass the US govt would behave differently after getting spanked by their corporate masters.
So just reach for the localy made soda instead of coke and locally made shoes instead of nike. You will be helping your local companies grow and you will be helping to get US policy changed.
It's not that hard people, how you spend your money is more important then how you vote or how you protest.
"The discussion is in regards to the root of the DNS. This is NOT the Internet! The Internet is composed of many technologies, where the DNS is only a minor one."
How sure are you that your senator understands the difference? Maybe they are indeed advocating controlling the internet and not just the DNS servers.
Actually....
The US is the most capitalistic nation on earth.
Capitalism is about the love of money.
The love of money is the root of all evil (God says so anyway).
So maybe you are right.
"With that being said, why would the military want to kill animals unintentionally? "
Why not? People who would kill in order to keep a country occupied would have no moral compunction to kill animals for any reason.
"I know that the military is viewed as some large killing machine bent on world domination, but remember that there's real actual people forming our armed services."
Right, and those people all believe that it's ok kill human beings who object to your occupation of their country. They also have no moral objection to invading and occupying countries either. Why would they care about killing whales?
SO if they just bent over and let the US occupy their country then everything would be a-ok right?
LOL. I guess "shut up and take it bitch" has become the official moral position of the United States now.
That sounds all noble and shit doesn't it. The reality is that the Navy trains to kill in order to further American Interests not to defend America. Take Iraq for example, iraq didn't attack america, it had nothing to do with 9/11.
The reality is that the military kills to increase profits for American companies which is what furthers american interests.
"Because for the most part animals really aren't a major threat the way other humans are?"
What does that have to do with anything? Just today the US military killed 20 people in Iraq. Why? Because those people objected to the US occupying their country.
If you can kill people because they don't want you in their country then pretty much anything goes.
The politicians know how to push their buttons. Kill your congressman? If you the fags will get married and your wife will leave you. The A-rabs will nuke you. PETA will force you to become a vegeterian. They will take your guns away and ban footbal. Liberals hate america don't cha know, you don't want the UN running your life do you?
"What struck me about this article was the Navy's response, namely that they were already doing most of what the NRDC wanted. They sounded a bit bewildered, actually."
No you read the article wrong. The actual quote is "Navy spokesman Lt. William Marks said the Navy already is doing many of the things demanded in the suit." Notice the weasel word "many". You got fooled by the weasel word "many" which became "most" in your head and instantly convinced you that the Navy is a harmless organization who would never harm any animals while the Natural Resources Defence Council cares nothing about the environment but is merely seeking to raise millions of dollars so they can drink expensive champagne and drive around in Feraris.
The Navy PR people are trained in psy-ops. They do this for a living. They know how to spin the story to hook people like you.
Well I hate to interjects actual facts into this conversation but PETA is not the group that filed the lawsuit, it was Natural Resources Defense Council.
So who do you trust more? The US Military or the Natural Resources Defence Council? I'd say that's a no brainer.
"Not saying this is true at all."
No you are just making an accusation without any facts whatsoever. Since you were modded up to four I guess that's what passes for insightful around here.
"Just because they carry weapons doesn't mean the Navy are always uncaring brutes"
These people are training to kill humans, why would they care about killing a few animals?
You know what amazes me? Everybody in the US knows that but still they don't care. They don't even care enough to goddamn vote once every four fucking years.
What a bunch of useless retards we all turned out to be huh?
compiling expires your session, you still have to log back in and then navigate to the page you were looking at. Building takes time and during the lifecycle of your web development process you might have build thousands if not tens of thousands of times.
"But you're being too harsh on ASP.NET development. As others have noted, you don't need to use the debug button (and really shouldn't, unless you're *actually* debugging). You can just open a browser window, build and refresh."
Building expires your session so your refresh doesn't work. You have to log in and then navigate to the page you were having a problem with.
"ou don't have to compile PHP, it's true, but doing a build in C# is generally very fast."
Still slower then no build at all. Multiply the build time by thousands and send an invoice to Bill Gates for wasting your time so much.
"DataBinding is a pretty huge time-saver. "
Only when you are coding, it makes maintenance a nightmare. You save on the initial stage of your application lifecycle but suffer horribly during the rest of your applications lifetime. You know the maintenance, debugging phase that is 90% of all applications lifetime. Besides which it's a bad idea, it's always been a bad idea, it will continue to be a bad idea. I can't think of one accomplished programmer who reccomends it, I can't think of one respected book on programming that reccomends it. Not one. There are even best practices and white papers made by MS that don't reccomend it.
"Accomplishing a given task generally requires that you write many more lines of PHP than it would C# in ASP.NET."
That's not true. PHP has a such a huge and rich library that you can accomplish amazing tasks in just a few lines of code using other peoples efforts. The PEAR library is huge and the amount of third party libraries staggers the imagination. Take a look at PHPlens for example. Another think you can do in PHP is to start with a complete system like Nuke or Xoops, with no code whatsoever you can set up a web site with full authentication, plug in architecture, fine grained permissions, database abstraction, and just about anything else you can think of. With no code at all!. You only write the code if you want to customize something. Face it the PHP community so much more generous then the ASP.NET community and that's what makes using PHP hundreds of times more productive then ASP.NET.
"i can understand if you think that the only people who should be able to learn linux are venerated programmers who have gone through a thirty year initiation in obscure computer ritual... no, check that, i don't understand that at all. in what way do you benefit by alienating people like myself - the non-programming but enthusiastic "power users" who know enough to advocate linux to their friends and family, and set up a cheap internet box for an impoverished friend with the spare pc sitting in the attic."
I think that by eliminating the casual programmer and the non programmer we gain higher quality code and a better reputation for reliability. It's as simple as that. People will judge the OS based on the apps they use, if 90% of the apps they use are crap written by half assed programmers then they will blame the OS for it. Just like they blame the lack of drivers on the linux kernel developers now.
"on a final note - linux doesn't need to compete with itself to capture best practice and improve. "
I call bullshit on that. So far linux has gotten better by competing with itself. That's what open source is all about. The competition between KDE and GNOME (as well as the lighter weight windowing toolkits) has lead to a plethora of innovations and continues to do so. If we just settle on one all that will happen is that linux will mimic windows for eternity and nobody wants that.
Anyway it's all a moot point. You have no way to punish people for working on a windowing system you disaprove of, you have no way to punish people for using a windowing system you disaprove of.
Why continue to bleat on about this issue when you have no idea how you would ever enforce such a rule?
Internet is pretty reliable by and large but that's not what Ballmer is freaking out about. He is freaking out about the fact that web apps make life easier for corporations to write and deploy apps in their internal network and makes windows redundant in the corporate IT systems.
RIght now if the corporate network went down everybody stops working anyway, no email, no web, no database, no shared files, nothing. It's in that context that web apps hurt windows. If linux ever started spreading on the corporate desktop Ballmer would start shitting brick the size of kansas.
DIdn't Bill Gates called open source cancer? Maybe that's Ballmers next mission, curing cancer.
ASP.NET development in a nutshell:
Slap a control on the form, write some code, hit debug button, wait for the application to compile and internet explorer to launch, log in to your application, navigate to the page you want to see, notice your mistake....
Fix your code, hit the debug button, wait for your application to compile and internet explorer to launch, log in to your application, navigate to the page you want to test, (notice a mistake or desire a new behavior) repeat all over again.
PHP development in a nutshell.
Write HTML by hand, write code by hand, launch firefox, log in to your application, navigate to the page you want, notice a mistake...
Change code (or html), hit the reload button, THERE IS NO STEP THREE!!!!!!.
ASP.NET has got to be the most unproductive way to code web apps ever. Don't even get me started on what a bastard cludge of a language VB.NET is, orElse? andAlso? BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.