". i just think it is ridiculous to single out a certain type of legal structure, especially when the organization in question isn't even a corporation."
Why? Corporations are an abomination. Artificial entities created to shirk responsibility, with the same rights as a human being, immoral at the core.
They should be gotten rid of and replaced with business structures that emphasize personal responsiblity and moral behavior.
Who the hell cares what cambridge says about the definition of zealot. It's a loaded word, it's used as a bludgeon to try and surpress opinions that are contrary to your profit margin.
How does that saying go... "All it takes for evil to win is for the good to do nothing". If the nerds who know what is going on make no effort to educate the regular joe or susan then you are "doing nothing". History has never been changed by people who sit back and do nothing. It's always the aware and active few who articulate their message and bring susan and joe along.
Holy crap, how lazy can you get. Open source only works when you contribute. It's not about waiting for other people do stuff for you. What would happen to open source if everyone acted like you?
Re:GIMP is becoming a real threat for Photoshop
on
First Look at GIMP 2.4
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· Score: 2, Interesting
GIMP will become a threat to photoshop the day our schools teach bettet ethics. Right now people would rather steal photoshop then to use a free alternative like GIMP.
Honestly, who uses dylan and for what? I don't think it's fair to try and compare dylan with java. Java has a huge and rich library while you have to code everything yourself in dylan. I think python or ruby is a fairer comparison. If java loses mindshare it will be to ruby and python, not dylan or lisp.
Having said that why people don't adopt more esoteric languages like dylan, lisp or even erlang is a mystery to me. Shouldn't we all use the best possible tools?
The neat thing about Java is that you don't need to code in swing. There are lots of options including swt and wxwindows. There are java bindings for every gui toolkit.
Because the people are stupid and weak. I know that sounds harsh but it's true. The corporations know how to make you want things, they know how to manipulate you down to the last detail. They don't spend billions of dollars in advertising and research for nothing.
Just go ahead and try to get people to boycott anything, I dare you. All a corporation has to do is to pay some TV or radio personality to call you a communist, cancer, zealot, hippie or a radical and boom they have taken care of the situation.
Look at slashdot, look at how often the shills call people who use linux or program in open source zealots and hippies? It happens every day. Your average joe does not want to go through life being called a zealot or a communist, he has been tought to reflexivey hate zealots and communists even though he probably could not define communist if his life depended on it.
MS is not improving it's product, it's just including the anti-virus.
Look at it this way. If MS was a tire manufacturer which made tires prone to being punctured then this would be the equavalent of including a patch kit with every tire.
I guess it never occured to them to make a better tire.
Shoot a man in the head and you have killed him. Take away his ability to transmit knowledge to his progeny, take away his ability to communicate freely and you have killed mankind, you have killed what it means to be human.
What MS is evil of another magnitude. Any old corporation can lobby the govt to drop bombs on brown people (it's easy!), MS is going after our ability to persist information, to pass what we know to our children and grandchildren.
Visual studio may seem like a godsend to VB developers but java developers have been spoiled by the likes of eclipse and intelliJ for years now. VS doesn't even have refactoring yet (coming any day now in 2005 years after everybody else had it).
"In real-world applications, C# matches up quite well to Java's speed."
Even if what you say is true it only applies to windows. Not that I accept your conclusion mind you just pointing out that it's a useless statistic because it only applies to one platform. If ruby was faster then python in windows but slower in every other platform could you say that "ruby is faster then python!". No that would be lying by not telling the whole truth.
So you are lying by not telling the whole truth. The whole truth is the java is fastern then c# on all platforms except windows where it's either faster or the same speed depending on your benchmark.
"With VB the innovation was in giving Developers the ability to make that tradeoff, of rapid app development.. the side-effect was that it empowered a lot of people to write apps that they never would have dreamed of trying to write w/o it."
Alas other then the most trivial ones every one of those had to be rewritten costing billions of dollars worth of productivity. VB is the paragon of short term thinking. The ideal of instant gratification at the cost of long term pain. I guess that's why it was perfect for the corporate world.
As for C# you are entitled to your opinon. I certainly don't think C# is innovative nor do I think it's the state of art in language design. I for one think that over all state of the art in language design has gone back wards since the invention of lisp. There are exceptions to that of course, languages like dylan and haskell and mozart are certainly innovative and languages like ruby and python are at least trying to be innovative but c# is just java which is just the new cobol.
Java was innovative because it was the first time somebody made a language C developers could feel comfortable with but with GC and more dynamic code loading.
C# was not innovative because all they did was take Java and clean it up a bit and added some syntactic sugar.
Innovation means you are inventing something new or taking a new spin on something old. I don't think C# qualifies.
as for VB. I am afraid all it did was lead to legion of poorly written programs where every form had SQL statements, and a pointer to a database. Easy to write, hard to maintain.
"In fact, why do you think that Microsoft patents so aggressively? To sue Linux? "
At this time MS seems perfectly happy to pay other people to sue linux. I suspect they will continue along this path. After SCO dies they will find another stooge to fund to attack linux.
MS is smart, they know attacking linux from the front is a mistake but they have gotten a lot of mileage out of their funding of SCO.
"That's very much the Redmond party line, isn't it? Poor little microsft, struggling to make its way in the cruel, cruel world with only forty billion dollars, an operating systes mononpoly and a couple of dozen senators and judges in their pocket."
Do you mind if I use this quote when I am replying to the shills too? It's brilliant.
"The languages themselves are nearly identical syntactically."
hence the "not innovative" tag. As for.NET being cleaner I'd disagree with that. Not because of the core framework but all the other frameworks built on top. I happen to think j2ee despite it's bloat and several layers of insanity is better then.NET. Frameworks like tapestry, hibernate, spring etc are all so much better then anything in the ASP.NET world it's not even close. I guess I am one of those people who think slapping databound controls on a form is not elegant programming.
To me ruby is elegant, rails is elegant and innovative.
Re:Maybe an OSS future isn't that bright afterall
on
Nessus Closes Source
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· Score: 1
"The grandparent stated that all software is not going to be "free" (speech or beer, take your pick) because software developers need money."
yes, and that's a stupid thing to say. One has nothing to do with the other.
" Hey, it's a great balance of c-style syntax, elegance, and clear and unambiguous meaning."
What you mean like java?
" C# represents an evolutionary improvement because it finds a good balance that works for a large number of programmers."
Just like PERL represents a good balance that works for a large number of programmers or VB represents a good balance for a large number of programmers or whatever. Most languages work a (arbitrary) large number of programmers, that does not make them "elegant".
As I said I am sure C# is a "evolutionary improvement" for all the VB and C++ developers who are coming from the win32 API. To you I am sure it's elegant as hell compared to the language you were using. To me and thousands of others it's far from "elegant" and in fact is nothing but a rip off of java with some delphi elements added in. Just another mishmash language.
Most people who use C# came from VB and VB.NET to them it will indeed look like a beautiful language. Just like a 74 pinto will look great to a person who has been driving a 72 pinto.
Re:Maybe an OSS future isn't that bright afterall
on
Nessus Closes Source
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· Score: 2, Insightful
"So I think you are wrong. I think that there will continue to be a great deal of commercial software because, ultimately, software developers need money too."
If you think that the driving force for the software industry is the need for developers to make money you need to go back to school.
Everybody needs to make money, and yet industries come and go.
Slashdot Mirror
". i just think it is ridiculous to single out a certain type of legal structure, especially when the organization in question isn't even a corporation."
Why? Corporations are an abomination. Artificial entities created to shirk responsibility, with the same rights as a human being, immoral at the core.
They should be gotten rid of and replaced with business structures that emphasize personal responsiblity and moral behavior.
"and why is it that you single out corporations in your little rant?"
Because over 90% of all advertising dollars and research is done by corporations. Why do you care so much about corporations anyway?
Who the hell cares what cambridge says about the definition of zealot. It's a loaded word, it's used as a bludgeon to try and surpress opinions that are contrary to your profit margin.
How does that saying go... "All it takes for evil to win is for the good to do nothing". If the nerds who know what is going on make no effort to educate the regular joe or susan then you are "doing nothing". History has never been changed by people who sit back and do nothing. It's always the aware and active few who articulate their message and bring susan and joe along.
Holy crap, how lazy can you get. Open source only works when you contribute. It's not about waiting for other people do stuff for you. What would happen to open source if everyone acted like you?
GIMP will become a threat to photoshop the day our schools teach bettet ethics. Right now people would rather steal photoshop then to use a free alternative like GIMP.
Honestly, who uses dylan and for what? I don't think it's fair to try and compare dylan with java. Java has a huge and rich library while you have to code everything yourself in dylan. I think python or ruby is a fairer comparison. If java loses mindshare it will be to ruby and python, not dylan or lisp.
Having said that why people don't adopt more esoteric languages like dylan, lisp or even erlang is a mystery to me. Shouldn't we all use the best possible tools?
The neat thing about Java is that you don't need to code in swing. There are lots of options including swt and wxwindows. There are java bindings for every gui toolkit.
Because the people are stupid and weak. I know that sounds harsh but it's true. The corporations know how to make you want things, they know how to manipulate you down to the last detail. They don't spend billions of dollars in advertising and research for nothing.
Just go ahead and try to get people to boycott anything, I dare you. All a corporation has to do is to pay some TV or radio personality to call you a communist, cancer, zealot, hippie or a radical and boom they have taken care of the situation.
Look at slashdot, look at how often the shills call people who use linux or program in open source zealots and hippies? It happens every day. Your average joe does not want to go through life being called a zealot or a communist, he has been tought to reflexivey hate zealots and communists even though he probably could not define communist if his life depended on it.
I should have put the sarcasm tag on I guess.
MS is not improving it's product, it's just including the anti-virus.
Look at it this way. If MS was a tire manufacturer which made tires prone to being punctured then this would be the equavalent of including a patch kit with every tire.
I guess it never occured to them to make a better tire.
Shoot a man in the head and you have killed him. Take away his ability to transmit knowledge to his progeny, take away his ability to communicate freely and you have killed mankind, you have killed what it means to be human.
What MS is evil of another magnitude. Any old corporation can lobby the govt to drop bombs on brown people (it's easy!), MS is going after our ability to persist information, to pass what we know to our children and grandchildren.
Mmmmm. Only if there was a law preventing a monoply from doing these types of things.
It seems like MS is going back to the "cut off their air supply" strategy they employed with Netscape.
VisualStudio.NET + C# = IntellijIDEA + Java = Eclipse + java = netbeans + java
Visual studio may seem like a godsend to VB developers but java developers have been spoiled by the likes of eclipse and intelliJ for years now. VS doesn't even have refactoring yet (coming any day now in 2005 years after everybody else had it).
"In real-world applications, C# matches up quite well to Java's speed."
Even if what you say is true it only applies to windows. Not that I accept your conclusion mind you just pointing out that it's a useless statistic because it only applies to one platform. If ruby was faster then python in windows but slower in every other platform could you say that "ruby is faster then python!". No that would be lying by not telling the whole truth.
So you are lying by not telling the whole truth. The whole truth is the java is fastern then c# on all platforms except windows where it's either faster or the same speed depending on your benchmark.
/. is written in PERL right, it's written with DBI right? It should be trivial in theory right?
/. to different open source databases and report on the results.
You know what would be cool? Keep switching the backends of
"With VB the innovation was in giving Developers the ability to make that tradeoff, of rapid app development.. the side-effect was that it empowered a lot of people to write apps that they never would have dreamed of trying to write w/o it."
Alas other then the most trivial ones every one of those had to be rewritten costing billions of dollars worth of productivity. VB is the paragon of short term thinking. The ideal of instant gratification at the cost of long term pain. I guess that's why it was perfect for the corporate world.
As for C# you are entitled to your opinon. I certainly don't think C# is innovative nor do I think it's the state of art in language design. I for one think that over all state of the art in language design has gone back wards since the invention of lisp. There are exceptions to that of course, languages like dylan and haskell and mozart are certainly innovative and languages like ruby and python are at least trying to be innovative but c# is just java which is just the new cobol.
Java was innovative because it was the first time somebody made a language C developers could feel comfortable with but with GC and more dynamic code loading.
C# was not innovative because all they did was take Java and clean it up a bit and added some syntactic sugar.
Innovation means you are inventing something new or taking a new spin on something old. I don't think C# qualifies.
as for VB. I am afraid all it did was lead to legion of poorly written programs where every form had SQL statements, and a pointer to a database. Easy to write, hard to maintain.
"In fact, why do you think that Microsoft patents so aggressively? To sue Linux? "
At this time MS seems perfectly happy to pay other people to sue linux. I suspect they will continue along this path. After SCO dies they will find another stooge to fund to attack linux.
MS is smart, they know attacking linux from the front is a mistake but they have gotten a lot of mileage out of their funding of SCO.
"That's very much the Redmond party line, isn't it? Poor little microsft, struggling to make its way in the cruel, cruel world with only forty billion dollars, an operating systes mononpoly and a couple of dozen senators and judges in their pocket."
Do you mind if I use this quote when I am replying to the shills too? It's brilliant.
"The languages themselves are nearly identical syntactically."
.NET being cleaner I'd disagree with that. Not because of the core framework but all the other frameworks built on top. I happen to think j2ee despite it's bloat and several layers of insanity is better then .NET. Frameworks like tapestry, hibernate, spring etc are all so much better then anything in the ASP.NET world it's not even close. I guess I am one of those people who think slapping databound controls on a form is not elegant programming.
hence the "not innovative" tag. As for
To me ruby is elegant, rails is elegant and innovative.
"The grandparent stated that all software is not going to be "free" (speech or beer, take your pick) because software developers need money."
yes, and that's a stupid thing to say. One has nothing to do with the other.
" Hey, it's a great balance of c-style syntax, elegance, and clear and unambiguous meaning."
What you mean like java?
" C# represents an evolutionary improvement because it finds a good balance that works for a large number of programmers."
Just like PERL represents a good balance that works for a large number of programmers or VB represents a good balance for a large number of programmers or whatever. Most languages work a (arbitrary) large number of programmers, that does not make them "elegant".
As I said I am sure C# is a "evolutionary improvement" for all the VB and C++ developers who are coming from the win32 API. To you I am sure it's elegant as hell compared to the language you were using. To me and thousands of others it's far from "elegant" and in fact is nothing but a rip off of java with some delphi elements added in. Just another mishmash language.
Most people who use C# came from VB and VB.NET to them it will indeed look like a beautiful language. Just like a 74 pinto will look great to a person who has been driving a 72 pinto.
"So I think you are wrong. I think that there will continue to be a great deal of commercial software because, ultimately, software developers need money too."
If you think that the driving force for the software industry is the need for developers to make money you need to go back to school.
Everybody needs to make money, and yet industries come and go.