"That's the whole point: for them to use it. Why do you think the Gaim folks started libgaim in the first place? If the Adium devs come across a bug in libgaim, they file it or offer a patch just like anyone else."
So your original contention that the Adium folks have done a favor to libgaim is bullshit then.
"The Cocoa APIs do not exist on Windows or Linux, neither does the Objective-C runtime. "
Why not? I tell you why not, it's because Apple chooses not to. This goes back to the whole selfishness of the apple crowd.
Anyway the same thing can be said of the win32 API. The point is that the vast majority of the open source community shuns proprietary frameworks in favor of open frameworks, even if they choose proprietary frameworks they choose the ones that are cross platform.
"And they're right to be resentful of it because the user experience blows. They're not obligated to tolerate it silently."
Oh the humanity!!!. I really feel your suffering there. Imagine that. Tolerating the UI of a program somebody gave you for free. Oh the agony of it all.
"We have standards. Expecting developers to live up to those standards isn't being "spoiled". "Spoiled" is when everyone writes web pages to cater to one platform's broke-ass browser. Spoiled is getting every game first and not having to wait a year, if it even comes out. We're not beggars, so we're allowed to be choosers. Deal with it."
Bhahaha. Deal with it!!!. Yes we will all bow down to your demands and rewrite all of our apps in cocoa.
Look man you keep making my point over and over again. There is nothing to be gained from an open source project making any effort to port to the mac. All they will get is the likes of you shitting on them constantly while not lifting a finger to help. They all have to deal with your attitude. You will not tolerate crappy windows or java or gtk or qt or swing or swt or wxwindows GUIS. No sir. Those all beneath you. You will not be satisfied till every line of cross platform GUI code gets ripped out and replaced with objective C and cocoa so that the application will be mac only.
Why would anybody want to deal with people like you without getting paid for it?
It's interesting how your comparison of debian (linux + 3000 apps) to the bare install of windows codebase has been modded up to four despite being misleading and or ignorant.
Games are important to the average slashdotter. They are not important to the average corporation in fact they are considered harmful. Neither are they important to the average soccer mom who would rather have her kids play outside.
"Oh yeah, because no one appreciates what the Adium guys have done with libgaim. It doesn't have a legion of users swearing by the application as the best IM client, anywhere, ever."
What have they done FOR libgaim? As far I can see they have used it and that's it.
Also why is adium Mac only? How come the mac users want to run linux programs but when it comes to writing an app from scratch they make it Mac only?
"I hate that Azureus is the most featured BT client out there because it sucks when it's not running on Linux or Windows, where looking robotic and using tabs for everything is apparently acceptable."
Bingo!. This is just the attitude I am talking about. The Azureus application is written so it can run on any OS. The windows and linux users are appreciative. The Mac users piss on it and on the developers and constantly critize it without ever helping out.
You just made my point for me. The Mac users are spoiled brats. They whine, bitch and moan and never help. So given your attitude why should the Azureus developers ever do anything for the mac crowd. What's in it for them (other then being continuously insulted)
"Remember Mac users expect things to 'just work'. You can accuse them of being spoiled, but this is the markert you have to cater for."
I disagree with that statement. I don't think the open source applications need to cater for anybody. In fact I think the spiled brattiness of Mac users are an actual discouragement for open source programmers. Even if the open office guys end up with a native Mac version they will be continually harraunged and pissed on by spoiled mac users who will complain bitterly that it doesn't "just work" or that the colors are not right, or that the icons are off by a few pixes or something. Needless to say the same people who bitch won't lift a finger to help in any way whatsoever. In fact they will actively try and discourage others from using the open source version of open office.
The mac users are prefectionsits. I think trying to port an X application to cater to them is a foolish task. They won't appreciate your efforts and nothing you do will be good enough for them. Remember these people are not programmers and they have no idea what goes into making a port for a mac. All they know is that the green isn't lickable enough and that makes them upset.
The problem is that aside from you and a handful of really right wing nutcases nobody else really wants the US to conduct genocide at the scale you are calling for. When you are trying to occupy a country the size of iraq you are going to have to destroy anywhere from 40 to 60 percent of all building in the country and kill tens of millions of people in order to snuff out all opposition.
There is a minority of about 20 to 30 percent of americans who would rather enjoy killing ten million iraqis but since most americans would revolt at the thought it would be political suicide.
It's not restraint, it's using the wrong tool for the wrong job. Let's contrast the first gulf war with the current one.
In the first gulf war we did not plan to occupy iraq so we flew something like 300 sorties a day dropping an ungodly amount of bombs on the place. We targeted and destroyed all kinds of crucial civilian infrastructure such as bridges, electrical generation facilites, water treatment plants, roads, factories etc. Our goal was to make the iraqis suffer so much that they would rise up and overthrow saddam so we worked very hard at hurting as many common iraqis as possible. As a result of these efforts and the sanctions that followed we killed close to two million iraqis including hundreds of thousands of children.
That was using the right tool for the right job.
In the second war we wanted to occupy iraq so we didn't want to destroy any infrastructure that we wanted to use ourselves so we didn't target water treatment facilities, bridges etc. We wanted to keep saddams palaces so we could move into them and set up shop. Wrong tool for the wrong job. The US military is awesome at killing, destroying, and making millions of people as miserable as possible. It sucks at police work and occupying an angry populace.
Interesting that they exclude women not in the national guard. I don't think this law would stand up in court if it excludes women (or the disabled for that matter)
Ask a hundred average americans if they would not mind having their taxes raised to fund medical research and ask the same people if they would not mind having their taxes raised to fight terrorism and see what kinds of answers you get.
The fact of the matter is the americans are in favor of having a large and powerful military. It makes us feel like men.
"Incorrect. Ballmer stated that the purpose of the Novell-Microsoft agreement was to protect customers against patent litigation (from any possible company). Microsoft made no such statements that they would sue Linux users. If you have a quote from Ballmer or any other Microsoft representative to support your ignorant claim, please provide it."
"Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer said his company is open to talking to other Linux distributors about reaching mutual patent coverage deals similar to the agreement signed Nov. 2 with Novell.
Such talks would be a good idea, Ballmer suggested, since now only Novell's SUSE Linux customers are the only Linux vendors that have any assurance that Microsoft won't sue for patent infringement...."
"Done. Here's the first relevant link: (the first link was actually an article about how Apple (a litigious company itself) sued Microsoft over user interface issues: "
Ah the classic astro turfers tactic. When proven wrong try to blame apple!. The first link I got was about how MS sued people over their FAT patent and how the patent was challenged in court and eventually upheld.
But hey no need to face reality when you can pull out the apple wookie heh?
"Did you actually read the article? It clearly disproves the claim that Microsoft sues over its patents."
But it did sue. It sued over FAT patents. It also threatened many companies over other IP and they stopped without going to court. Hell MS sued a 16 year old kid over a domain name!
What makes you think they didn't cheat? It could very well be that they rigged to throw one out of ten thousand votes to go republican but it wasn't enough.
I am not saying that they did that, I am saying that just because they won it doesn't mean they didn't cheat. It could mean they didn't cheat enough and maybe next time they will.
are you fucking retarded? Haven't been following the whole novell saga? Ballmer said they plan on suing people who use linux because linux infrignes on their IP and that the only safe way you could use linux is by buying it from Novell.
That's threating to sue people.
Oh and your google fu sucks. They this "Microsoft lawsuit FAT" and follow the first link.
"The problem is not that Microsoft research isn't doing anything interesting, it's that projects like this tend to get buried, or ignored, or simply have a few ideas shifted into existing products."
No the real problem is that MS uses it's research dept to gain patents and then sues or threatens to sue people or companies that might want to do the same thing.
MS research does not exist to make MS products better, it exists to prevent other companies from improving their products.
He hasn't said anything. He doesn't really care. He never has. He doesn't really understand what free software is all about and never really has. He chose the GPL without really thinking about it and I get the feeling he feels sorry that he did. Remember the whole bitkeeper thing? Yes he really thought that his buddy who wrote this tool would be nice and let him use it forever for free.
Anyway his vocal opposition to the GPL3 shows that he just doesn't care about who does what to his code.
The biggest question left is what if anything will he do or say when MS actually files their first lawsuit. Will he still remain silent? I think he will if the suit is against somebody he doesn't care that much about.
It's america, anybody can sue anybody for anything. Before this deal MS could have theoretically sued anybody for anything. After this deal MS PROMISES to sue certain people.
That's a big difference and one that should not be taken lightly.
You said we needed a military to defend ourselves. I have pointed out that we don't use the military to defend ourselves, we use it to rape other countries.
Re:How is Apple an important vendor to CIOs?
on
Top 40 IT Vendors Rated
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
I guess this survey puts a nail in the coffin of the "you don't have somebody to blame" whinging you hear on/. all the time. RedHat not only gives you somebody to blame but they are more responsive and responsible then oracle, MS, IBM, Sun, Novell and just about everybody else.
This has got to be a massive sales tool for a company that relies on service to make money.
"Gimme a break. Assuming that the worst effects are some mild blistering (an assumption that is apparently not independently corroborated, but for now is all the info we have), which would you prefer? The alternative is to riddle another human being with bullets, leaving him either dead or badly maimed; merely inflicting temporary pain and mild burns to incapacitate an enemy combatant is undeniably the lesser of two evils. Would you seriously prefer we shoot them dead instead? "
No the alternative is to leave their country or not to have invaded in the first place.
"The world is an ugly place, human beings are ugly by nature, so any sovereign nation (not just the U.S.) needs a standing military to defend itself when and as needed;"
Wow polyyanna. Since when has the US military been used to defend itself? It's a big cock we have to rape other countries in the ass when they don't do what we want. It has nothing to do with defending ourselves.
I think the search comes from MS being a powerful and unethical entity. When you have that much power, that much money, that much clout with governments and you are completely unconcerned with ethics or morals then people see you as a danger to them and others.
Add to that a company which seems to be floudering with their flagship products and promising to go on a lawsuit binge and you can see trouble coming from a mile away.
Slashdot Mirror
"That's the whole point: for them to use it. Why do you think the Gaim folks started libgaim in the first place? If the Adium devs come across a bug in libgaim, they file it or offer a patch just like anyone else."
So your original contention that the Adium folks have done a favor to libgaim is bullshit then.
"The Cocoa APIs do not exist on Windows or Linux, neither does the Objective-C runtime. "
Why not? I tell you why not, it's because Apple chooses not to. This goes back to the whole selfishness of the apple crowd.
Anyway the same thing can be said of the win32 API. The point is that the vast majority of the open source community shuns proprietary frameworks in favor of open frameworks, even if they choose proprietary frameworks they choose the ones that are cross platform.
"And they're right to be resentful of it because the user experience blows. They're not obligated to tolerate it silently."
Oh the humanity!!!. I really feel your suffering there. Imagine that. Tolerating the UI of a program somebody gave you for free. Oh the agony of it all.
"We have standards. Expecting developers to live up to those standards isn't being "spoiled". "Spoiled" is when everyone writes web pages to cater to one platform's broke-ass browser. Spoiled is getting every game first and not having to wait a year, if it even comes out. We're not beggars, so we're allowed to be choosers. Deal with it."
Bhahaha. Deal with it!!!. Yes we will all bow down to your demands and rewrite all of our apps in cocoa.
Look man you keep making my point over and over again. There is nothing to be gained from an open source project making any effort to port to the mac. All they will get is the likes of you shitting on them constantly while not lifting a finger to help. They all have to deal with your attitude. You will not tolerate crappy windows or java or gtk or qt or swing or swt or wxwindows GUIS. No sir. Those all beneath you. You will not be satisfied till every line of cross platform GUI code gets ripped out and replaced with objective C and cocoa so that the application will be mac only.
Why would anybody want to deal with people like you without getting paid for it?
No the mods upmodded you because antything pro MS gets a lot of upmods.
It's interesting how your comparison of debian (linux + 3000 apps) to the bare install of windows codebase has been modded up to four despite being misleading and or ignorant.
Games are important to the average slashdotter. They are not important to the average corporation in fact they are considered harmful. Neither are they important to the average soccer mom who would rather have her kids play outside.
"Oh yeah, because no one appreciates what the Adium guys have done with libgaim. It doesn't have a legion of users swearing by the application as the best IM client, anywhere, ever."
What have they done FOR libgaim? As far I can see they have used it and that's it.
Also why is adium Mac only? How come the mac users want to run linux programs but when it comes to writing an app from scratch they make it Mac only?
"I hate that Azureus is the most featured BT client out there because it sucks when it's not running on Linux or Windows, where looking robotic and using tabs for everything is apparently acceptable."
Bingo!. This is just the attitude I am talking about. The Azureus application is written so it can run on any OS. The windows and linux users are appreciative. The Mac users piss on it and on the developers and constantly critize it without ever helping out.
You just made my point for me. The Mac users are spoiled brats. They whine, bitch and moan and never help. So given your attitude why should the Azureus developers ever do anything for the mac crowd. What's in it for them (other then being continuously insulted)
The pope misjudged the rigid dogmatism of his audience. Perhaps moglen did the same.
"Remember Mac users expect things to 'just work'. You can accuse them of being spoiled, but this is the markert you have to cater for."
I disagree with that statement. I don't think the open source applications need to cater for anybody. In fact I think the spiled brattiness of Mac users are an actual discouragement for open source programmers. Even if the open office guys end up with a native Mac version they will be continually harraunged and pissed on by spoiled mac users who will complain bitterly that it doesn't "just work" or that the colors are not right, or that the icons are off by a few pixes or something. Needless to say the same people who bitch won't lift a finger to help in any way whatsoever. In fact they will actively try and discourage others from using the open source version of open office.
The mac users are prefectionsits. I think trying to port an X application to cater to them is a foolish task. They won't appreciate your efforts and nothing you do will be good enough for them. Remember these people are not programmers and they have no idea what goes into making a port for a mac. All they know is that the green isn't lickable enough and that makes them upset.
"What lunatic thought *that* could work? It will have had exactly the opposite effect.
Most likely it was James Baker. He was running the state dept at that time.
The problem is that aside from you and a handful of really right wing nutcases nobody else really wants the US to conduct genocide at the scale you are calling for. When you are trying to occupy a country the size of iraq you are going to have to destroy anywhere from 40 to 60 percent of all building in the country and kill tens of millions of people in order to snuff out all opposition.
There is a minority of about 20 to 30 percent of americans who would rather enjoy killing ten million iraqis but since most americans would revolt at the thought it would be political suicide.
It's not restraint, it's using the wrong tool for the wrong job. Let's contrast the first gulf war with the current one.
In the first gulf war we did not plan to occupy iraq so we flew something like 300 sorties a day dropping an ungodly amount of bombs on the place. We targeted and destroyed all kinds of crucial civilian infrastructure such as bridges, electrical generation facilites, water treatment plants, roads, factories etc. Our goal was to make the iraqis suffer so much that they would rise up and overthrow saddam so we worked very hard at hurting as many common iraqis as possible. As a result of these efforts and the sanctions that followed we killed close to two million iraqis including hundreds of thousands of children.
That was using the right tool for the right job.
In the second war we wanted to occupy iraq so we didn't want to destroy any infrastructure that we wanted to use ourselves so we didn't target water treatment facilities, bridges etc. We wanted to keep saddams palaces so we could move into them and set up shop. Wrong tool for the wrong job. The US military is awesome at killing, destroying, and making millions of people as miserable as possible. It sucks at police work and occupying an angry populace.
Wrong tool, wrong job.
Interesting that they exclude women not in the national guard. I don't think this law would stand up in court if it excludes women (or the disabled for that matter)
Ask a hundred average americans if they would not mind having their taxes raised to fund medical research and ask the same people if they would not mind having their taxes raised to fight terrorism and see what kinds of answers you get.
The fact of the matter is the americans are in favor of having a large and powerful military. It makes us feel like men.
"Incorrect. Ballmer stated that the purpose of the Novell-Microsoft agreement was to protect customers against patent litigation (from any possible company). Microsoft made no such statements that they would sue Linux users. If you have a quote from Ballmer or any other Microsoft representative to support your ignorant claim, please provide it."
l /2 01234813
God I hate shills. Sigh ok then.
http://news.samba.org/announcements/team_to_novel
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061103
Note the quote from Ballmer:
"Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer said his company is open to talking to other Linux distributors about reaching mutual patent coverage deals similar to the agreement signed Nov. 2 with Novell.
Such talks would be a good idea, Ballmer suggested, since now only Novell's SUSE Linux customers are the only Linux vendors that have any assurance that Microsoft won't sue for patent infringement...."
"Done. Here's the first relevant link: (the first link was actually an article about how Apple (a litigious company itself) sued Microsoft over user interface issues: "
Ah the classic astro turfers tactic. When proven wrong try to blame apple!. The first link I got was about how MS sued people over their FAT patent and how the patent was challenged in court and eventually upheld.
But hey no need to face reality when you can pull out the apple wookie heh?
"Did you actually read the article? It clearly disproves the claim that Microsoft sues over its patents."
But it did sue. It sued over FAT patents. It also threatened many companies over other IP and they stopped without going to court. Hell MS sued a 16 year old kid over a domain name!
What makes you think they didn't cheat? It could very well be that they rigged to throw one out of ten thousand votes to go republican but it wasn't enough.
I am not saying that they did that, I am saying that just because they won it doesn't mean they didn't cheat. It could mean they didn't cheat enough and maybe next time they will.
are you fucking retarded? Haven't been following the whole novell saga? Ballmer said they plan on suing people who use linux because linux infrignes on their IP and that the only safe way you could use linux is by buying it from Novell.
That's threating to sue people.
Oh and your google fu sucks. They this "Microsoft lawsuit FAT" and follow the first link.
How many computer programmers does it take to screw in a light bulb?
None. It's a hardware problem
"The problem is not that Microsoft research isn't doing anything interesting, it's that projects like this tend to get buried, or ignored, or simply have a few ideas shifted into existing products."
No the real problem is that MS uses it's research dept to gain patents and then sues or threatens to sue people or companies that might want to do the same thing.
MS research does not exist to make MS products better, it exists to prevent other companies from improving their products.
I quoted you. If you are unhappy about the quote then take it up with the author.
He hasn't said anything. He doesn't really care. He never has. He doesn't really understand what free software is all about and never really has. He chose the GPL without really thinking about it and I get the feeling he feels sorry that he did. Remember the whole bitkeeper thing? Yes he really thought that his buddy who wrote this tool would be nice and let him use it forever for free.
Anyway his vocal opposition to the GPL3 shows that he just doesn't care about who does what to his code.
The biggest question left is what if anything will he do or say when MS actually files their first lawsuit. Will he still remain silent? I think he will if the suit is against somebody he doesn't care that much about.
It's america, anybody can sue anybody for anything. Before this deal MS could have theoretically sued anybody for anything. After this deal MS PROMISES to sue certain people.
That's a big difference and one that should not be taken lightly.
"The ads are SPONSORING the program! Somebody has to pay the bills. I'm not saying I never skip ads, but I definitely don't feel intruded upon."
The cost of those ads are being added to the products you consume. In the end you are still paying the bills.
You said we needed a military to defend ourselves. I have pointed out that we don't use the military to defend ourselves, we use it to rape other countries.
I guess this survey puts a nail in the coffin of the "you don't have somebody to blame" whinging you hear on /. all the time. RedHat not only gives you somebody to blame but they are more responsive and responsible then oracle, MS, IBM, Sun, Novell and just about everybody else.
This has got to be a massive sales tool for a company that relies on service to make money.
"Gimme a break. Assuming that the worst effects are some mild blistering (an assumption that is apparently not independently corroborated, but for now is all the info we have), which would you prefer? The alternative is to riddle another human being with bullets, leaving him either dead or badly maimed; merely inflicting temporary pain and mild burns to incapacitate an enemy combatant is undeniably the lesser of two evils. Would you seriously prefer we shoot them dead instead? "
No the alternative is to leave their country or not to have invaded in the first place.
"The world is an ugly place, human beings are ugly by nature, so any sovereign nation (not just the U.S.) needs a standing military to defend itself when and as needed;"
Wow polyyanna. Since when has the US military been used to defend itself? It's a big cock we have to rape other countries in the ass when they don't do what we want. It has nothing to do with defending ourselves.
I think the search comes from MS being a powerful and unethical entity. When you have that much power, that much money, that much clout with governments and you are completely unconcerned with ethics or morals then people see you as a danger to them and others.
Add to that a company which seems to be floudering with their flagship products and promising to go on a lawsuit binge and you can see trouble coming from a mile away.