True, I am most likely over-generalizing based on my past views of linux distribs as opposed to their current status which I have not been keeping a close eye on.
I am sure that the time will come when linux distribs arrive at a bullet proof interface that is idiot proof, intuitive and fully functional. Every distrib of Linux that I have seen so far, always comes up with some sort of command line hacking that is necessary. But like I said, it's been a while. On OSX, you can use a computer for years without seeing, or caring about, any command line or that sort of stuff.
Even OSX has it's interface issues that still need tweaks to get right. But still I would recommend OSX over any Linux distribs any day for general every day users who don't mind a *nix kernel but don't want to see it.
Maybe someday I will actually use linux at home but for now, my home computers are OSX, my hacking boxes are Free BSD any my corporate heat generator is a dellXP:p
The one thing I find depressing here is that Apple has not put some resources at this one. The benefit that Apple will get from having Native OOO is astronomical. The number of users who would be available to switch to OSX is much higher than people imagine.
Picture all those users who:
-- Don't want to pay for crazy Win32 OS prices
-- Don't want to pay for M$ Office prices
-- Are not sys admins (or capable of) and as such cannot, and should not, use linux
-- Who, rightly so, have an moral aversion to installing M$ software on a OSX box
-- Want stable enterprise quality office apps running on a stable system (OOO on OSX)
I know that the number of users that are above are in the millions globally. If OOO was native, all of the above could selling features of Mac OSX. I am not even thinking of the corporate possibilities here.
I know that many argue that M$ Office is available but it's way too unstable and the interface bites. Also programmability is poor.
Another argument against OOO on OSX is that apple has AppleWorks. But, apple has never and will never come close to the features programmability of OOO. Personally, I still consider AppleWorks a toy product not worthy of true enterprise Office hacking.
I am sure that Sun is aware of the benefits that Apple will gain by an native version and this is why they don't care to pay anybody to do the work.
Sad state of affairs:[
I am very glad that you have put in all the work so far and I will be glad to assist in the future in any of your 'forks' to get OOO 2.0 on OSX.
Keep up the good work!
JsD
[Looking forward to hacking python/javascript/... apps on top of OOO 2.0]
1) Learn how to program.
-- nuf said. 2) Write clean code
-- Proper indenting **
-- sufficient commenting 3) Less code is more
-- More lines is more intimidating that less
-- However, there is a limits (ie Perl)
-- More you can fit on one screen the easier to debug 4) Be a structured programmer
-- It should not matter what language you are programming in. The structures should always be the same. 5) Learn and use language level error handling
-- This will enable you to fully understand how to debug your code
-- Stack traces are a must for any procedural or OO code 6) Make your programs chatty
-- Log files are good but make sure there is a way to easily turn off logging features so that you can speed up programs when you are happy. 7) Learn how to tail log files
-- tail is available on every operating system
--- GNUUtils for win32
--- *nix (Linux, Unix, OSX...) 8) Write blind code as much as possible
-- IDE's are very powerful but I always write all my code in a text editor totally blind (no compilation, syntax validation...)
-- If you become dependant on the system to tell you what is wrong, you will not learn to SEE the problem.
--- Often times, when I get an error and I know I just changed a piece of code I will not even read the error. I'll just look at the line of code that I changed and visually look for the error. If you don't learn how to do this, then programming probably is not for you. 9) Got errors, don't worry
-- All coders get errors.
-- Only a few times I have written dozens of lines of blind code and not gotten at least one error. I was amazed when I did.
-- Don't get stressed out. Just be pragmatic and move being objective with the error.
That's probably a good start.
Personally I would not trust programs in telling me where coding problems are anyhow. I find it akin to using anti-spyware programs on a win32 box where it would be easier to just not use IE and be more concious of the operating system we use. The latter takes a little more understanding but in the end all will be better:]
If anybody remembers the movie Birdy, there was a scene early in the movie where the main character lets a elastic powered ornithopter go in a class room. What an awesome site to see that little guy fly.
If you have not seen the movie, I highly recommend it and the soundtrack is based on one of Peter Gabriels better albums.
Regarding UofT project, I hope these guy's succeed. I'm pretty sure that materials have gotten strong and light enough to enable full size models but... very very expensive! I hope they bring a parachute;]
I use open office 1.9.58. Its just a developer snapshot build but the improvements in 2.0 makes switching very easy. In particular, right clicks now first sets focus to event target before opening contextual menu (similar to Excel). It also includes format painter which is a great tool if you spend much time making your spreadsheets look nicer.
If you are a hacker, Open Office also has language bindings to Java, Python, C++, JavaScript and many others so you can build some powerful applications and do things that is possible in Excel but the code would be very obfuscated and unreadable as is expected with M$ objects and VB API's.
I am a power user of spreadsheets being a heavy user of Lotus 123 back in the early 90's and was switched to excel 5.0 back in 94 I think.
OOO 2.0 looks extremely promissing and aparently they are putting in alot of performance improvements as well.
Just remember, these 2.0 snapshots are intended for developers and you may get crashes (Although since about 1.9.4n I have not had many at all).
Whats CSDS - Collaborative Software Development System. The most significat Open Source project out there is probably Collabnet although many don't know what it is, many have used it. If you downloaded netbeans, Open Office or checked out subversion (tigris.org), you've used it.
Their product is built on the premis of combining Open Source applications and building an all encompasing sandbox to house all the sub systems in such a way that the whole is one seamless system to the user. Their web based interface is simply put, elegant. Although, with dhtml they could see significant improvements in performance, the underlying applications are sweet.
This is the type of project model that proves the effectiveness of Open Source. The Company has an awesome product that is built on components that anybody can download and interrogate the source.
The only thing that sucks with CN is, like other Enterprise SCM systems, its damned expensive. But any reasonable sized programming firm that builds on their platform have to work hard to screw things up.
BTW - who owns Collabnet?... Just the Tim O'Reilly, Founder and President, O'Reilly & Associates. And Brian Behlendorf, co-founder of the Apache Software Foundation. Honorary super hackers in my eyes.
I'm just waiting to see an open source project emulating what collabnet is doing. Anybody interested in building an open source CN offering. I'd be there in a flash!:]
The truth is that Linux is no where near the quality and refinement of OSX. The only thing that is holding me back from recommending OSX as the switch to platform is the lack of native OOO and in particular a stable 2.0 trunk.
Once native OOO comes out next year, OSX will be the `switch` platform I am recommending to all my friends relatives colleagues...
Regarding Linux, OOO 2.0 is again a main switching point. OOO 1.1.n is still too limited to be useful for power users to switch.
Another HUGE blocking point for switchers to any platform other than win32 is the lack of a `all in one` netmeeting'ish application. Sure there is gnomemeeting but it still does not support an secure integrated vnc server/client p2p component. This is greatly limiting.
JsD [dreaming of programming Java/obj-c/Python on an apple at apple while programming in Java/tcl/JS on a dell at another]
Last time I hacked with it. It was pretty bad. I think all development in OOO is focused on stablizing the UI and core frameworks. Improvements such as xhtml exporting would probably not show up until after 2.0 release in late 2005.
I am sure that it will come and besides, anybody can write their own export engine for OOO. Just not sure if they will incorporate it.
Why read a book. Just download Jode
on
Decompiling Java
·
· Score: 3, Informative
I have been decompiling Java regularily. Just get Jode Jode Its very simple and effective.
As long as the writers are not using ubfuscation tools, the code is fully readable in it's original form sans commenting.
Maybe once this technology comes out this will be possible, but in the mean time, I don't think that the pixel refresh rates of LCD's are good enough with current technologies.
I really want to play around with hacking 3D shutters but have been shuttering at the quality of LCD monitors when it comes to refresh.
I am going to wait until LCD's get good enough for 3D. From what I've seen, they are not ready yet. What is the critical response time to have usable 3D (for extended periods without headaches).
I remember seeing the chairman of FIRST robotics, doing the opening presentations on a segway. I was totally impressed. The guy was flying all over the stage and right next to the edge.
I know that any techno nerds that see a candidate flying around on one would definitely think of voting for them.
The main reason for me to switch (probably with new hardware) is to have native h263 support. All those tv programs, movies, dvd's, dv's that I can pipe down massively in size.
I totally agree. I have written so much JavaScript code for DHTML apps that I could easilly port to apple. Throw in JavaScript debugging in X-Tools and I'm wetting my pants.
If they are opening up the whole API to the exent of Applescript, there will be little reason to do AppleScript as JavaScript is simply a sweet language.
Although I use Mac at home, I work for a bunch of microsofties. There is so little out there on runing OpenStep Obj-C code on Win32. I'd love to see these frameworks and particuarily ObjC get more usage.
I've been avoiding any c'ish programming on win32 since I generally don't like C++ and hate using M$ frameworks. Anybody know of and REAL projects to bring ObjC to win32?
I am an ex power user of M$ office. My
background started doing rather large spreadsheets to do energy
management analysis of large complexes back in 91. I originally
started with Lotus 123. The time that Lotus 123 saved me was
outstanding, but when I was exposed to Excel, I was quickly
converted. With built in wysiwyg it was an easy sell. I have used
Excel to do many operations in the energy engineering sector for some
time. Having coded applications that still live today in VBA I have a
pretty good perspective of the capabilities of Excel and of other
Office apps through my careers.
I have been having a casual
relationship with OOO for about three years now. I've looked a API's
and they are looking very promising (Multiple scripting languages
including Java, JavaScript and Python. Although the current stable
tree (1.1.3) is, from a UI perspective, like Office 95-97, it does
have it's strong points with unfortunately some strong UI negatives. I
have been testing snapshots of the pending 2.0 release.
OOO vs M$O
Menu structures
[M$O]
They always missed the boat when they decide to layout their
menu's. Many items are just in the wrong list. I guess we should
forgive an entity that comes up with start->shutdown.
[OOO113]
The page setup, area selection is on the format menu not the
file menu:]
There are quite a few others menu re-organizations that burn
you the first few times that you use them but after a while the
workflow becomes much smoother than in M$O.
[00019n]
Follows same basic structures with further organizational
improvements.
Spreadsheet User Interface
[M$O]
Interface well designed and thought out. Reasonably efficient
workflow.
With proper right click event directions. Right click goes to
mouse pointer location (intuitive)
Function wizard - Very handy and well designed UI.
Handy tools such as: Format painter, Paste values toolbar
button,
[OOO113]
Interface followed O97 concepts. Similar enough for someone
to stumble through.
Right clicks to things like tabs, row or column headings do
to pass focus to the item under the mouse pointer. Instead the focus is
passed to the last item selected in that control set (cell, row,
header, tab). As a result, users must left click then right click to
get the contextual menu for that item. For power users of Excel, this
is painful.
[00019n]
Developers have fixed the right mouse click issue. Focus now
goes to item under mouse pointer.:]
Significant improvements in many faucets of the UI bringing
the workflow as efficient if not better than M$O.
Format Painter now added:]
Still missing paste values button. I made the suggestion but
got turned down (Issue 18987). Please feel free to post to this issue.
Maybe somebody will re-open. Or I'll just learn how to program it
myself and post a patch.
Icon Toolbars
[M$O]
Back with O97, the toolbars were reasonably customizable were
usable. Newer versions are a little nicer but without too many real
improvements.
Unfortunately you cannot lock the menu's. When using the
mouse in a drag & drop environment it is common to fat finger the
menu by dragging an icon or toolbar. In M$O this happens all the time.
[000113]
Customization tool is not very intuitive. Menu's are a bit
difficult to figure out. This may be partially because of the
`different thinking` when it comes to the Office menu integrations
across applications (writer, calc...)
Toolbars were always lockable. This is very nice to have.
Yes I am a software engineer. My company is trying to outsource all programming efforts, however because I am in Canada and the company is American, my team gets balanced on the offshore category of internal developers.
This may change in the future but for now, the IT exec are happy and so are my PM's and customers.
Although the exchange rates are getting closer, my internal billing rate is still half of that of my American counterparts.
I'm a Canuk and we do pass as offshore. Sure, we do get paid more than India but we can react to change requests much faster with no middle man.
If I was not happy with my employer, I'd be happy to start up a consulting firm that can leverage Canadian resources and for the coding I'd rather not do, I'd ship it to India.
BTW - Don't come to Toronto. Housing prices are simply crazy!
Slashdot Mirror
True, I am most likely over-generalizing based on my past views of linux distribs as opposed to their current status which I have not been keeping a close eye on.
:p
I am sure that the time will come when linux distribs arrive at a bullet proof interface that is idiot proof, intuitive and fully functional. Every distrib of Linux that I have seen so far, always comes up with some sort of command line hacking that is necessary. But like I said, it's been a while. On OSX, you can use a computer for years without seeing, or caring about, any command line or that sort of stuff.
Even OSX has it's interface issues that still need tweaks to get right. But still I would recommend OSX over any Linux distribs any day for general every day users who don't mind a *nix kernel but don't want to see it.
Maybe someday I will actually use linux at home but for now, my home computers are OSX, my hacking boxes are Free BSD any my corporate heat generator is a dellXP
JsD
Ed,
:[
The one thing I find depressing here is that Apple has not put some resources at this one. The benefit that Apple will get from having Native OOO is astronomical. The number of users who would be available to switch to OSX is much higher than people imagine.
Picture all those users who:
-- Don't want to pay for crazy Win32 OS prices
-- Don't want to pay for M$ Office prices
-- Are not sys admins (or capable of) and as such cannot, and should not, use linux
-- Who, rightly so, have an moral aversion to installing M$ software on a OSX box
-- Want stable enterprise quality office apps running on a stable system (OOO on OSX)
I know that the number of users that are above are in the millions globally. If OOO was native, all of the above could selling features of Mac OSX. I am not even thinking of the corporate possibilities here.
I know that many argue that M$ Office is available but it's way too unstable and the interface bites. Also programmability is poor.
Another argument against OOO on OSX is that apple has AppleWorks. But, apple has never and will never come close to the features programmability of OOO. Personally, I still consider AppleWorks a toy product not worthy of true enterprise Office hacking.
I am sure that Sun is aware of the benefits that Apple will gain by an native version and this is why they don't care to pay anybody to do the work.
Sad state of affairs
I am very glad that you have put in all the work so far and I will be glad to assist in the future in any of your 'forks' to get OOO 2.0 on OSX.
Keep up the good work!
JsD
[Looking forward to hacking python/javascript/... apps on top of OOO 2.0]
Just do the following:
...)
:]
p iness:)
1) Learn how to program.
-- nuf said.
2) Write clean code
-- Proper indenting **
-- sufficient commenting
3) Less code is more
-- More lines is more intimidating that less
-- However, there is a limits (ie Perl)
-- More you can fit on one screen the easier to debug
4) Be a structured programmer
-- It should not matter what language you are programming in. The structures should always be the same.
5) Learn and use language level error handling
-- This will enable you to fully understand how to debug your code
-- Stack traces are a must for any procedural or OO code
6) Make your programs chatty
-- Log files are good but make sure there is a way to easily turn off logging features so that you can speed up programs when you are happy.
7) Learn how to tail log files
-- tail is available on every operating system
--- GNUUtils for win32
--- *nix (Linux, Unix, OSX
8) Write blind code as much as possible
-- IDE's are very powerful but I always write all my code in a text editor totally blind (no compilation, syntax validation...)
-- If you become dependant on the system to tell you what is wrong, you will not learn to SEE the problem.
--- Often times, when I get an error and I know I just changed a piece of code I will not even read the error. I'll just look at the line of code that I changed and visually look for the error. If you don't learn how to do this, then programming probably is not for you.
9) Got errors, don't worry
-- All coders get errors.
-- Only a few times I have written dozens of lines of blind code and not gotten at least one error. I was amazed when I did.
-- Don't get stressed out. Just be pragmatic and move being objective with the error.
That's probably a good start.
Personally I would not trust programs in telling me where coding problems are anyhow. I find it akin to using anti-spyware programs on a win32 box where it would be easier to just not use IE and be more concious of the operating system we use. The latter takes a little more understanding but in the end all will be better
JsD
(Java+Python+ObjC-on-BSD-with-firefox==hap
Let me ad VB help files, J++, VBScript for starters :]
If anybody remembers the movie Birdy, there was a scene early in the movie where the main character lets a elastic powered ornithopter go in a class room. What an awesome site to see that little guy fly.
;]
If you have not seen the movie, I highly recommend it and the soundtrack is based on one of Peter Gabriels better albums.
Regarding UofT project, I hope these guy's succeed. I'm pretty sure that materials have gotten strong and light enough to enable full size models but... very very expensive! I hope they bring a parachute
I use open office 1.9.58. Its just a developer snapshot build but the improvements in 2.0 makes switching very easy. In particular, right clicks now first sets focus to event target before opening contextual menu (similar to Excel). It also includes format painter which is a great tool if you spend much time making your spreadsheets look nicer.
If you are a hacker, Open Office also has language bindings to Java, Python, C++, JavaScript and many others so you can build some powerful applications and do things that is possible in Excel but the code would be very obfuscated and unreadable as is expected with M$ objects and VB API's.
I am a power user of spreadsheets being a heavy user of Lotus 123 back in the early 90's and was switched to excel 5.0 back in 94 I think.
OOO 2.0 looks extremely promissing and aparently they are putting in alot of performance improvements as well.
Just remember, these 2.0 snapshots are intended for developers and you may get crashes (Although since about 1.9.4n I have not had many at all).
JsD
Whats CSDS - Collaborative Software Development System. The most significat Open Source project out there is probably Collabnet although many don't know what it is, many have used it. If you downloaded netbeans, Open Office or checked out subversion (tigris.org), you've used it.
:]
Their product is built on the premis of combining Open Source applications and building an all encompasing sandbox to house all the sub systems in such a way that the whole is one seamless system to the user. Their web based interface is simply put, elegant. Although, with dhtml they could see significant improvements in performance, the underlying applications are sweet.
This is the type of project model that proves the effectiveness of Open Source. The Company has an awesome product that is built on components that anybody can download and interrogate the source.
The only thing that sucks with CN is, like other Enterprise SCM systems, its damned expensive. But any reasonable sized programming firm that builds on their platform have to work hard to screw things up.
BTW - who owns Collabnet?... Just the Tim O'Reilly, Founder and President, O'Reilly & Associates. And Brian Behlendorf, co-founder of the Apache Software Foundation. Honorary super hackers in my eyes.
I'm just waiting to see an open source project emulating what collabnet is doing. Anybody interested in building an open source CN offering. I'd be there in a flash!
JsD
Maybe Sony execs got wind of one of Steve's planned versions of the iPod :]
Use Firefox or die!As any Open source hacker should know...
OOO == OpenOffice.org
The truth is that Linux is no where near the quality and refinement of OSX. The only thing that is holding me back from recommending OSX as the switch to platform is the lack of native OOO and in particular a stable 2.0 trunk.
Once native OOO comes out next year, OSX will be the `switch` platform I am recommending to all my friends relatives colleagues...
Regarding Linux, OOO 2.0 is again a main switching point. OOO 1.1.n is still too limited to be useful for power users to switch.
Another HUGE blocking point for switchers to any platform other than win32 is the lack of a `all in one` netmeeting'ish application. Sure there is gnomemeeting but it still does not support an secure integrated vnc server/client p2p component. This is greatly limiting.
JsD
[dreaming of programming Java/obj-c/Python on an apple at apple while programming in Java/tcl/JS on a dell at another]
Last time I hacked with it. It was pretty bad. I think all development in OOO is focused on stablizing the UI and core frameworks. Improvements such as xhtml exporting would probably not show up until after 2.0 release in late 2005.
I am sure that it will come and besides, anybody can write their own export engine for OOO. Just not sure if they will incorporate it.
I have been decompiling Java regularily. Just get Jode Jode Its very simple and effective. As long as the writers are not using ubfuscation tools, the code is fully readable in it's original form sans commenting.
Maybe once this technology comes out this will be possible, but in the mean time, I don't think that the pixel refresh rates of LCD's are good enough with current technologies.
Ditto,
I really want to play around with hacking 3D shutters but have been shuttering at the quality of LCD monitors when it comes to refresh.
I am going to wait until LCD's get good enough for 3D. From what I've seen, they are not ready yet. What is the critical response time to have usable 3D (for extended periods without headaches).
JsD
I remember seeing the chairman of FIRST robotics, doing the opening presentations on a segway. I was totally impressed. The guy was flying all over the stage and right next to the edge.
I know that any techno nerds that see a candidate flying around on one would definitely think of voting for them.
It's due to come out eventually. I just wonder when.
Cool Idea of having Google on the Moz side of the fence. Just means more of my Moz coding will be usefull for many years to come.
[moz==bliss]
Yes, that's what I mean.
Hey, that's great.
Will these framework allow for cross OS compilation and execution of code?
I really did enjoy GTA. Actually all my brothers love it and are sickened by the fact that we liked it.
I hope these guys spend more time on the physics engine though. If they could get to 70% of Driver3's physics I'd be happy.
I really just love getting a fast car and driving (running over people is secondary).
JsD
[user firefox or die;]
The main reason for me to switch (probably with new hardware) is to have native h263 support. All those tv programs, movies, dvd's, dv's that I can pipe down massively in size.
My own hackable and very efficient Tivo.
Yummmm.....
I totally agree. I have written so much JavaScript code for DHTML apps that I could easilly port to apple. Throw in JavaScript debugging in X-Tools and I'm wetting my pants.
If they are opening up the whole API to the exent of Applescript, there will be little reason to do AppleScript as JavaScript is simply a sweet language.
I wonder if they are using Rhino?...
Although I use Mac at home, I work for a bunch of microsofties. There is so little out there on runing OpenStep Obj-C code on Win32. I'd love to see these frameworks and particuarily ObjC get more usage.
I've been avoiding any c'ish programming on win32 since I generally don't like C++ and hate using M$ frameworks. Anybody know of and REAL projects to bring ObjC to win32?
JsD
[Use Firefox or Die]
I am an ex power user of M$ office. My background started doing rather large spreadsheets to do energy management analysis of large complexes back in 91. I originally started with Lotus 123. The time that Lotus 123 saved me was outstanding, but when I was exposed to Excel, I was quickly converted. With built in wysiwyg it was an easy sell. I have used Excel to do many operations in the energy engineering sector for some time. Having coded applications that still live today in VBA I have a pretty good perspective of the capabilities of Excel and of other Office apps through my careers.
I have been having a casual relationship with OOO for about three years now. I've looked a API's and they are looking very promising (Multiple scripting languages including Java, JavaScript and Python. Although the current stable tree (1.1.3) is, from a UI perspective, like Office 95-97, it does have it's strong points with unfortunately some strong UI negatives. I have been testing snapshots of the pending 2.0 release.
OOO vs M$O
Menu structures
Yes I am a software engineer. My company is trying to outsource all programming efforts, however because I am in Canada and the company is American, my team gets balanced on the offshore category of internal developers.
This may change in the future but for now, the IT exec are happy and so are my PM's and customers.
Although the exchange rates are getting closer, my internal billing rate is still half of that of my American counterparts.
I'm a Canuk and we do pass as offshore. Sure, we do get paid more than India but we can react to change requests much faster with no middle man.
If I was not happy with my employer, I'd be happy to start up a consulting firm that can leverage Canadian resources and for the coding I'd rather not do, I'd ship it to India.
BTW - Don't come to Toronto. Housing prices are simply crazy!