Slashdot Mirror
Tiger Early Start Kit
EccentricAnomaly writes "If you can't wait until next spring for the official release of next version of Mac OS X, Apple is offering a Tiger Early Start Kit to those willing to pay $500 for an Apple Developer Select Membership. And if you don't want to spend the money, they've also added a developer overview page describing some of the guts of Mac OS X v10.4."
Here's hoping the G5 powerbook comes out at the same time as Tiger. That is a mac fans wet dream.
Evolution or ID?
There's some nasty NDA business going on.
You can't even talk to other devs about Tiger if you have it.
Wow the guys over at Everquest will be jealous!
The advanced drawing capabilities of Quartz are exposed to the Web Kit environment through a set of modular extensions to HTML. This will let you draw beautiful user interfaces using JavaScript.
This has got to be the coolest new feature, considering how weak DHTML currently is. I could be wrong, but adding support for other APIs doesn't seem like it would be too hard. I'd love to finally be able to ditch Win32.
Of course if the product isn't DRM'ed then there may be a deluge of piracy. Blake said it best -- "Tiger tiger, burning bright..."
But there is no discount for student developers that I can find.
Choosing the lesser of two evils is a choice for evil.
Does this mean that Tiger will support other forms of mouse gestures?
English is easier said than done.
A 64bit OSX! Wow, not only will Apple have one of the most function and beautiful operating systems out there, they'll soon have an OS that rivals Solaris, AIX, HPUX, and other large scale OSes. Apple went from a pascal based operating system (OS9) to a fully functional, hyper powerful OS in less than 10 years.
that the Linux GUI toolkits just copy the Mac rather than Windows and stop the bickering and come up with a Unified desktop.
Apple has made Unix a dream desktop OS. I just hope that they support 64bit Java on this thing. I will buy it and switch from Linux (Fedora 64bit) if they come out with a 64bit powebook in a heartbeat.
Or, you can just download it for free with bittorrent.
Does Apple really need to? They have a cross-licensing agreement with Microsoft, they distribute GPL'd software with source, and they've shown a willingness to license even questionable patents.
My guess would be that if Apple were found to have infringed on someone's (legitimate) patent, they would just pay-up.
Of course I'm sure someone will point out a counter example ;)
Only Apple releases security patches for Jaguar, so your argument makes no sense. You're not paying for security, you pay for features. If you don't care about the new features then you obviously have no incentive to upgrade and you can keep your money. Not hard.
Moof.
...is that you do not talk about developer releases. Hence, the NDA. It's not nasty, as another poster observed. All it requires of you is to have one nice cup of Shut The Fuck Up after another until the final release.
That said...
Select membership gets you access to pre-release software, one incident of support from developer tech services, one hardware discount, and issues of the operating systems when they're finally released at no additional charge.
The way I look at it, $500 gets you the OS release that's bound to take place during your year's membership, and you can easily save far more than the difference when you buy a Macintosh system through the developer discount program. Being able to get assistance directly from Apple when you have a coding issue is a boon. The rest is icing on the cake.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, write technology blogs.
You get an ADC membership. This entitles you to an Apple hardware discount, some programming technical support, access to pre-release software and some other niceties. Moreover, this particular deal comes with the WWDC 2004 videos DVD that has already been distributed amongst ADC members. You also get the Tiger beta that developers received at WWDC 2004 (though it's probably a more recent build). The WWDC tutorials are great resources and I'd be more attracted to this offer because of that. One can argue as to whether charging developers for assistance in making software for their platform is a good strategy or not for Apple. But this isn't merely a "$500 for the privilege of beta testing" rip-off.
You are mistaken.
Yiou did notice that this release is for developers and not the general public, did you not? Or did you just post halfcocked without RFTA?
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
Apple provides its developer tools for free if you buy the operating system. They are only charging for the pre-release access. It's more like signing up for the MSDN service from Microsoft.
Core Data sounds like so many other great 3rd party tools out there, except now part of the OS (so to speak). A standardized object-relational persistence mechanism and design studio - Awesome. But why only:
Why not an odbc/ado/adsi type of interface that will allow the use of any persistence mechanism? Using LDAP or any sql-92 compliant existing database would be useful. Hey apple, you listening?
Close... You almost corrected yourself. Microsoft charged for Windows 95, 98, ME, NT, 2000, XP, 2003 and so on. Mac charged for OS 8, 9, X, X.1, etc.
If you're mad because they're charging for two operating systems that both start with 10, you might as well be mad at MS for charging for 95, 98 and ME separately.
Win 95
Win 98 = Win 95.1
Win ME = Win 95.2
Win NT
Win 2000 = Win NT.1
Win XP = Win NT.2
Win 2003 = Win NT.3
Mac OS 10
Mac OS 10.1
Mac OS 10.2
Mac OS 10.3
Get the picture?
"The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his." - Patton
Looks like they are working a lot of features in that are similar to QuickSilver (their web site seems to be down, hence the linking to instructions). I've only used it a bit, but it's great and I can see why Apple would want a lot of the functionality at the OS level.
aka Tubcat.
" I like the way Apple managed to charge for OS upgrades. Call it whatever you want, patches are still patches. The list of new features is not revolutionnary, by far (http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/)And it's not like they did it only once. Jaguar, Panther, and now Tiger...
Imagine if Microsoft was doing the same thing. Want better security with SP2? 129 bucks! Sure, they charged us for win95, win98, winME, winXP and soon Longhorn, but Apple pulled the same thing with os8, os9, osX..."
Labels seem really important to you. Since you think it's alright to pay for windows 2000 after paying for windows 98 and you think it's alright to pay for windows xp after paying for windows 2000, I guess you'd feel better about paying for apple's next operating system if it were called Apple Hurricane instead of Os X Tiger. These Os X operating systems are all based on unix but are as functional different as Windows 2000 and Windows XP. Your just confused because Apple has upgraded 5 times while windows has been stuck with xp
Especially helpful if you plan on buying a system. The discount for a dual 2 gig is $500 and the discount for dual 2.5 gig is $600. Forgetting all the other stuff you get, you make your money back right there.
Ahhhh...Now I feel better. I've recently been able to work with OS X and feel that it is superb.
I'd hate to see that things weren't being developed for it because Apple wants to charge $500.
Sorry 'bout the flamebait.
What's a developer?
Let me get this? $500 to be a developer on an OS that is even more marginal than Linux. I guess it's part of the whole Apple mystique to pay for everything.
Apple gives away their development tools with the OS. The $500 gets you a one-year membership in the developer program, which gets you advance access to OS releases. This is similar to Microsoft's MSDN subscriptions. As compared to an MSDN subscription, I think it's a bargain. Microsoft's MSDN Operating Systems subscription (access just to Microsoft's OSs) is $699 the first year, and $499 thereafter. Want Visual Studio with that? $1,199 for the first year, $899 thereafter. (And, of course, the even higher-level subscriptions with all of Microsoft's server & desktop apps...)
Oh, and Apple lets you buy one system per year at discount when you're in the developer program. If you're looking for the high-end PowerMac G5 and a Cinema Display, you can save several hundred dollars when you buy the system.
Also MS dinged users with Plus! packs and 98 SE.
PS, Imagine if automakers did the same thing! Good thing they give me free upgrades every year. I've had a new Honda Civic every year since the 70's! Woo hoo!
You've got to charge for something like this. Otherwise non-developers will sign up just to play with the pre-release OS, and get the hardware discount. You have to price it at a level where professional developers are not put off, but non-developers aren't tempted. With non-developers being quite willing to pay $125 for a new OS version, it has to be significantly higher than that. I'd say somewhere in the $300-$1000 range is sensible. Why not $500, it's a nice round number?
I mean the one that would force me to upgrade, is if on their DVD application they had an option to leave the window always on top.
I like to watch AntiTrust (Shhh... Don't tell anybody) while I'm coding.
"It takes many nails to build a crib, but one screw to fill it."
The security thing was about new features introduced in Windows XP SP2 (Firewall, etc). I never mentionned OsX 'upgrades' as security fixes; I am aware of them being freely available.
... and honestly, nothing I see here warrants a 129$ US price tag. And Tiger? http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/. Improved search, improved videoconferencing software, and RSS support for Safari. Wow. I have better things to do with my money, I'll stick to Linux / Windows, thanks.
Still, charging for new features is retarded, in my opinion. The fact is that they are charging for features which should be free. Panther claim '150 features and innovations'. Among these, a new interface, fast user switching, videoconferencing sofware... and that's about it. The whole list can be found at http://www.apple.com/macosx/newfeatures/
Crazy Mac fanboys, moderate this down, I don't care.
Eureka Science News - automatically updated
Except only .net weenies would sign up for MSDN
Mac charged for OS 8, 9, X, X.1, etc.
Do you mean Apple? As an inanimate object, wouldn't it be kind of hard for "Mac" to charge for anything?
What a troll!
Apple offers as many free patches as Microsoft does. And I wouldn't call new features like a complete file database system, 64-bit support,and new programs like automater patch material. It's not as if Windows has been drastically changed since Windows 95 (I'm typing this on an winXP computer). Every new version of OS-X has added significant features. For example Panther had a completely redesigned file manager, expose, and fast user switching. The only difference I can find between Windows 2000/Windows ME and Windows XP, is that XP has a hideous Playschool like interface... and it's much slower.
It's not just a security patch.
Yeah... I did. Thanks. Really.
"The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his." - Patton
Charge? Nobody charged me for my OS...it came with the computer! ;-) On a more serious (and less trollish) note, most of the operating systems I've used came with the computer. By "most" I mean windows-based systems. I've never taken my resources to purchase an upgrade. Heck, I gave my copy of XP to someone who ran ME out of pity.
Instead of running that XP, I run linux. Upgrades, patches, etc...all pretty much free.
But all that means I'm a cheap bastard...which makes posting in the mac section pointless.
The reason they charge $500 is to keep dumb ass comments like yours from clogging up the professional developer forums.
Sure I get the picture. But if you want to compare with Win95, you must add Mac Os 8 and 9... so it's more like :
Win 95
Win 98 (and maybe Win Me)
Win XP
Mac OS 8
Mac OS 9
Mac OS X
Mac OS X.1 (they didn't charge for this one I think)
Mac OS X.2
Mac OS X.3
and now, Mac OS X.4
The 'feature pack' trend started only recently. But anyway, Mac users have a past history of paying more for the same functionality (look, an iMac! It's so cute! 300$ more than a comparable PC? who cares! It's cute!)
Eureka Science News - automatically updated
Did you feel better paying $99 for your Windows 98 upgrade? How about the XP upgrade? It's all the same thing.
"The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his." - Patton
"I hope that the next corvette to come out of GM costs $200,000 and comes in a bunch of boxes"
l androver_d110.asp
Land Rover offers an option in some countries of "CKD" - "Complete Knock Down" that comes to you in boxes, you get to put it together. Unfortunately you can't get these in the US (tho they tease people with them at auto shows: http://www.rockcrawler.com/trailreports/SEMA2003/
32bit->64bit is a big change, enough to call it a revolutionary change.
There is a spark in every single flame bait point.
Sounds pretty good, the only thing more I would ask for are...
A Developer commentary track:
{booting OSX} "Ding! Welcome to the developers edition of OSX. I'm Joe Schmo, lead designer of Aqua, and with me I have Jim Bob of Core Graphics. We've got some great stories here for you! You'll see that it's starting up services, let me tell you about a time old Jim was writing one of those and the power went out after a fifteen hour coding session..."
And of course "Deleted comments - too hot for public release!"
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Why would they? If Apple is violating patents, the patent holders aren't going to sue OS X users or application developers.
Wow, that's a novel idea... getting people to pay you to do your beta testing for you!
There's nothing novel about it, Microsoft has been doing it for as long as they've been selling Windows. The difference is, Apple's upfront about it.
So what you're saying is that Apple has been more active in their OS development than Microsoft?
I'm not going to argue about "feature vs. architecture" but how is what Apple is doing any different from what Microsoft does?
"The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his." - Patton
aka Tubgirl
Doesn't anybody read the so-called "story"? Oh, wait. This is Slashdot.
I'm already a member, I've been able to download it for months. And they gave me the disks, at the conference, because I was there. (Everybody else gets them a few weeks later.)
Nothing to see here, move along...
you must be a very famous or professional person to drive a pre-release corvette, and may risk your life. And you only need to pay $500 to get a pre-release OS. Good deal, isn't it?
There is a spark in every single flame bait point.
Any app that really needs something like LDAP or JDBC or what have you can still use those.
To me, the idea of provided a core OS service that essentially acts as a really nice standard embedded DB you can use quickly, is awesome. I'll continue to write apps using more standard databases, but there are smaller apps I have in mind that can really make use of this feature. I was already looking over small DB's and debating about the best way to move forward with an embedded DB in an app.
Fundamentially the configuration and administration needs of an embedded DB vs. an external DB are different, and I don't mind treating them differently.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Now then, if you were actually an Mac user, rather than a Windows apologist looking for a asshat line of attack, you'd realise that you don't need to buy every version of software that comes your way. It sounds like you skipped Windows Me. Similarly many Mac users skip some OS releases if the particular features in that release aren't that important to them.
As others have noted, developer tools come with every Mac - that costs nothing, this is early release dev program kind of stuff.
However, I would question that bit about lower margin than Linux. There may be more Linux boxes around, but if you count the users willing to pay for things which base do you think is larger?
And I think in some ways you might even be better off than you would be developing with Windows, because while there are a LOT of Windows users, there are also a LOT of programs competing in whatever space you want to cover. With the Mac there are still a lot of opportunities for programs to come in and grab a big chunck of market share pretty quickly.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Good lord, is GCC all most there?
The main reason for me to switch (probably with new hardware) is to have native h263 support. All those tv programs, movies, dvd's, dv's that I can pipe down massively in size.
My own hackable and very efficient Tivo.
Yummmm.....
That's great and all, but when oh when will their laptops come standard with a two button mouse! and don't tell me thereis no need--you CAN right click in os x.
Let's get a couple things straight. QuickSilver is a rip-off of LaunchBar. Spotlight is much more than just live search results. It's a full metadata searching system that any developer can utilize and add data to. It's much more than you think.
Well compare the price of Win XP Pro (OEM $146, Retail Upgrade $199, New $241) with Mac OS X upgrades ($125)
So Win95 -> Win98 -> Win2000 -> WinXP
OS8 -> OS9 -> OSX -> OSX.2 -> OSX.3 -> OSX.4
admittedly the windows release cycle probably matched most people's home computer upgrade cycle, whereas people tend to use macs a lot longer and thus do actually upgrade, maybe not *every* upgrade.
Both upgrades included a massive leap in stability - OS9 to OSX and Win9x to WinNT. The OSX releases tend to include a lot more functionality than a mere service pack would include, although I do think that apple should price the upgrade lower for people upgrading from OSX.Y-1 to OSX.Y
Prices for Mac hardware these days certainly isn't that bad compared to comparable PC hardware. A $499 Dell PC certainly isn't in the same league as even an eMac.
I wonder if Spotlight calculates (or could be made to calculate) an MD5 for the file. This would be useful for backup. If the backup program looks up a file's MD5 in its catalog and finds it already there, no need to back up again. This would survive arbitrary renaming or moving (the metadata would still need to be backed up for each file), and would make for major efficiencies when backing up multiple machines on a network (only one copy of Hei.dfont, Osaka.dfont, xxx.App, etc. in the backup set).
Protoplasm. Quiet Protoplasm. I like quiet protoplasm.
Any idea of how much of a discount on ther hardware? I couldnt find any information about that on their site.
The way I look at it, $500 gets you the OS release that's bound to take place during your year's membership, and you can easily save far more than the difference when you buy a Macintosh system through the developer discount program. Being able to get assistance directly from Apple when you have a coding issue is a boon. The rest is icing on the cake.
Actually, what Apple has been doing the past few years is what we've all been bitching at software companies to do for the past few decades -- each major version release of OSX has been more stable, faster, and better on older hardware.
They aren't throwing in every marginally intersting feature and gadget, they keep optimizing and improving the basic system. (note that this is also one of the complaints, as developers have to deal with more incompatibilities from version to version than a Windows developer would going from 2k to XP)
Pretty much any Mac purchased in the past 3 years gets more of a speed boost by installing the newest major OS release than from any ~$130 hardware upgrade.
Peature-wise, Panther has saved more than $130 worth of my time with Expose alone. Out of the blue Apple came up with a system that makes virtual desktops and alt-tab feel like kindergarten toys.
Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
This will be available via BitTorrent for anyone who doesn't care about their data and the ADC membership or doesn't have the money. In fact... Tiger has been available for sometime(earlier release?). Not trying to Troll, its just a fact.
.. I presume the air will get thin for MS in the long run. Look at those features. It's like "Gee, that would be really cool to have" and three years later OS X has it, 5 years ahead of all the rest. I find the Automator one of those supercool things. Those things that will eventually put me out of business when everybody can automate his tasks with a few mouseklicks. But it's cool nonetheless.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
That in the RSS feeds demonstration for Safari, the site they use is Slashdot?
Just thought that was interesting..
Oh yay, I really want to pay $500 to beta test it... This is really for developers to get a subscription based service so that they are updated with OSs and developer access to forums.
This situation combined with MS's propensity to re-invent themselves technologically while remaining compatible with billions of existing pieces of software creates a logical nightmare! I do not envy MS that task.
This, however, does not excuse their many lapses in on-tiem feature delivery or their generally buggy and somtimes poorly designed software. I'm just trying to look at it from a computing monopoly's viewpoint. Poor babies. :)
Taft
The latest DVD Player.app does this. Go into preferences and click on the Full Screen widget then look for the "Remain in full screen when DVD Player is inactive".
Now only if they would add this feature to iChat for video conferencing. :-)
All editorial writers ever do is come down from the hill after the battle is over and shoot the wounded.
More precisely:
95 = Windows 4.0
98 = Windows 4.1
ME = Windows 4.9
NT = Windows NT 3.1 - 4.0
2k = Windows NT 5.0
XP = Windows NT 5.1
2003 = Windows NT 5.2
My Sig: SEGV
Haven't they nearly run out of cats yet?
The latest Slashdot meme.
Just ensuring you see this as it sounds like you would appreciate this. :-)
The DVD Player will stay in full screen even when it's inactive.
All editorial writers ever do is come down from the hill after the battle is over and shoot the wounded.
This isn't a beta, it is a developer preview for ISVs to get their hands on the new technogies and target them. The price is because Apple had to make a cut at some point and spend developer and QA resources to polish up a release that will never sell in general availability. These developers cost money, and they need to be paid. Developers have a much higher threshhold for prices than the general public does. Can you really say to your CEO "well, we can save $300 and change if we have all of our developers just sitting around for 6 months, and let's not worry about the competition that's going to have a 6 month head start either...".
The price also acts as a filter. Joe Schmo will not get this. Only ISVs and hard core techies will get this. This filters a lot of support calls, and probably makes them hugher quality as well, since any bugs in the DP may affect the ISV's ability to make money, so it's in his financial interest to make the bug process as clean as possible.
On the off chance that you're serious...
A developer is someone who develops something. In this case, it would be someone who would write and/or designs software for the next version of OS X.
(Posted anonymously to hide my shame in case you're only joking.)
Seriously, AIX stands for "Ain't Unix."
/usr/lib. Put shared libs in /usr/foo/lib and there is no way to make AIX search that lib path! And yes, we have support from IBM. Their solution was to symlink our libs to /usr/lib. Yuck.
All the "high end virtualisation, monitoring and enterprise volume management" that AIX includes does not make up for basic, fundamental problems with things like shared library handling. Everything is fscking hard coded to
Also, the fact that IBM doesn't update their Open Source repository is inexcusable. Try compiling apache on AIX sometime. It isn't fun. Actually try compiling any open source software on AIX.
Now, if you are an IBM drone, you will say, "you should buy their integrated Websphere." But, the problem with this is vendor lock-in. AIX is worse than fscking Windows for vendor lock-in.
Some of IBM's consultants are really bright, unfortunately you need that. Extensive experience with Linux/*BSD/Solaris/Irix is NOT enough to adequately anticipate/fix problems that crop up with AIX.
At a small shop, AIX is just a pain in the ass. At a big shop with ~1,200 AIX servers supporting >35,000 desktops in a whole bunch of locations (don't ask) it's a nightmare.
Ironically, there is nothing that we do with AIX that we couldn't do better/cheaper with Linux. Hell, we could probably get better support for it too. I suggest that the era of Big Iron in the enterprise is over. Cluster cheap linux blades.
I'm sick of the Slashdot IBM fanboy syndrome. There are plenty of companies to be excited about (like Apple!). There are plenty of operating systems to evangelize (like Linux or *BSD!). AIX/IBM are not the horse to bet on. They suck worse than almost any other vendor.
Oh yeah, Lotus/Domino sucks just as much as MS Exchange.
Wow, you know something, I just realized that nobody here has figured out how to compile themselves a sense of humor... people, you're taking things around here way too seriously these days. On the off chance that maybe none of you has a sense of humor, I'll defend myself in saying it was all in good fun.
Buddy. Your joke seg-faulted before the punch-line. /God damn geek humor.
No no, that's not redundant. He brings up a good point about the NT structure that I lapsed in my original rant. if I had mod points (and didn't already post here) I'd mod you back up. Although I fail to see why you placed ME as 4.9. I don't think it deserves that much credit!
"The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his." - Patton
Maybe I'm misunderstanding this, but it says that Dashboard hosts applications called Widgets, which are written in HTML, which have access to "plugins" which can be written in Objective-C.
Isn't this the same mistake Microsoft made with ActiveX (ie. Virus-writer's best friend)?
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
OS X may not match up to AIX or HP-UX on some of those features; scaling, high-end virtualization..
However, it does have some new technologies that might have more direct impact for more people and deliver on some age-old promises of computers making life easier; workgroup management , server task automation & client management, and volume management of its own. Not to mention everything they're doing in regard to clustering with Xgrid, and authoring software (Xcode).
Granted, the Apple stuff is new, it's not necessarily the *best*, and not even fully *out* yet, but you have to admit that there are great advances being made there, providing evidence that much attention is being paid to what AIX, HP-UX, Irix, and Solaris do best (right now). Plus, Steve's got something to prove since NeXT did so poorly against them all when they were at their peak.
Let's see... Tiger is probably going to be $129, and the hardware discount is $400+ on any 15" or larger Powerbook, any Xserve or any 2x2GHz Power Mac (maybe the dual 1.8, as well). So if you're in the market for a pro machine, and are planning to buy Tiger when it comes out, you can probably save money overall by being an ADC Select member -- even if you don't take advantage of *any* of the other benefits. (Like the free copy of OS X Server, which would cost $499 otherwise...)
Among these, a new interface, fast user switching, videoconferencing sofware... and that's about it.
I think you're arguing against yourself after the 'new interface' bit...
I'll also note that there is a "no-frills, no-bennies, no-cost" ADC membership option. It's good for going to grab recent versions of XCode, SDKs, and misc other online dev resources that Apple provides free of charge. This level works great for MacOS X open source or shareware dev types, hobbyists, etc.
Please see this comment.
You just pirated William Blake!
apple makes more money off their hardware than their software....
"goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
It's been noted, repeatidly, that purchasing an Apple Developer's Connection membership entitles you to a hardware discount. However, do you have to be a member first before you can see what the discount is?
I admit I don't want to sign up for the program and then discover that all I get is a whopping $25 discount. If I'm buying an Apple to experiment with, the NDA is not worth the $25 I'd save.
On the other hand, a $750 discount would make it more worthwhile - I can essentially get a new system and save $250 in the process just for agreeing to the NDA.
Any ADC members willing to log into the store (and verify membership) and then throw some general ballpark numbers back at us? I know policies may forbid quoting the numbers, but surely, you should be able to say if you get your membership fee back when you buy hardware.
Emphasis added by me
Arr...where's the .torrent link mateys? :)
Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).
Go have a look at how much software *requires* OS X 10.3. So what do people do with 10.2 ?
:/
I have an ibook with 10.3, if I want to upgrade to 10.4, do I have to re-buy iLife as well? I only have restore CD's. Crap, I'm not looking forward to Tiger coming out
They said "beautiful user interfaces"...
I was first on campus to own a NeXTstation 68040. The NeXTstep operating environment (Mach + BSD layer + AppKit + Display PostScript + included apps) wasn't a lot different then from today's MacOS X, modulo the nifty GUI extras like Expose, etc.
My point is that NeXT technology provided the boost that gave Apple such a headstart over Microsoft. The past few years have been mainly useability and performance improvements as they have iterated through releases. So thank NeXT for doing all the heavy lifting.
(posted from my 1 GHz PowerBook)
......... kris
"I thought I could organize freedom. How Scandinavian of me."
Assuming the iSight is on and looking at the user, a background daemon could look for middle finger patterns and then, if it detects one, dismiss the current modal dialog in the active application if one exists.
;-).
Sounds like a fun hack
A troll calling a someone a troll is still a troll. Windows XP is fastly different from Windows 95.
-]Phreak Out[-
People that pay for them. Which doesn't appear to be you.
He placed it there because that's microsoft's version number for ME.
Plus, at least MS is still putting out patches for Win 2000. You can't get security patches from Apple for 10.1 which is much younger than Win 2000.
The meme police, They live inside of my head
SP2's new security feature is a firewall. Something that OS X has had since 10.1.
Moving from X to 10.1 to 10.2 to 10.3 added over 100 new features to the OS with each revision and 10.4 is supposed to do the same. Microsoft can't say anything remotely close to that so don't try and make pitiful comparisons like that.
Each one of these OS updates have been vastly more than mere patches, which come out from Apple on a regular basis between OS revisions, 10.3.6 is right around the corner in just over a years time and each of the six minor updates has included security patches and new features as well.
The list of features that MS has had to pull out of Longhorn to get it to market, in possibly under five years, is long. Most of the features that were going to set it ahead of XP have already been stripped out just so they can bring it to market. The biggest, most important change to Longhorn, WinFS, has been taken out too now. Meanwhile Gates smiles and the company blames the customers, the developers and the retailers for their short-failings with "SHORTHORN". On top of all of that, you still won't see it released to the general public, in a non-server format, until 2008.
The one "new" feature that is supposedly going to remain in Longhorn is the MS duplication of the Aqua interface that Apple included with X since day one. No comparison at all, unless you just have no clue. Sorry fireangel, it seems you are clueless.
Really? You'd like to think that were true...
Sorry, the firewall was in 10.2, not 10.1.
"Oh yeah, Lotus/Domino sucks just as much as MS Exchange."
I was following you, and nodding a bit, until you hit this point at the end.
Notes can do some sweet things, and back before everything was a web app, it was even more useful. The whole "everything is a database" paradigm makes for an extremely useful, extensible, and powerful system - if you design and administer the system correctly. Which, I'm afraid, most people don't seem to do. E-Mail is only a small subset of the power of Notes and Domino.
On the Exchange side, nothing could be further from the truth. Exchange, especially Exchange 2000+, has proven itself as a solid e-mail centric groupware solution. It practically runs itself after the initial setup. If using IE, the web mail is an unusually pleasant webmail experience, the system is responsive and fast, and it's filled with all sorts of great stuff you can do. I've designed and maintained Exchange systems for years and besides little silly issues that are generally easy to fix.
I've been doing messaging work for quite awhile now, including work on Unix/Linux systems - Sendmail/Postfix/etc - and honestly besides Exchange and Lotus, there's really no real competition if you want something more then plain e-mail.
At any rate..
- It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
The charge of $19.95 was the shipping cost.
Nah, he has a Spymac email address. He might really not know what a developer is.
There's some nasty NDA business going on.
You can't even talk to other devs about Tiger if you have it.
How do you know? Do you have it?
Frankly, I have no idea what are you talking about, but it surely sounds more impressive than developing for Gnu over Penguin.
Sincerely,
Pan Tarhei Hosé, PhD.
"Homo sum et cogito ergo odi profanum vulgus et libido."
YOU ARE A FUCKING MORON. READ THE FUCKING ARTICLES. IT'S FOR DEEEEEVVVVVEEEEEELLLLLLOOOOOPPPPEEEEERRRRRSSSS YOU FUCKING ASS HAT.
God damn I hate wednesdays.
p://example.com/> will auto-link a URL Important Stuff Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your thresh
Retrospect does this- and has since the dawn of time, practically. It makes it possible to, in fact, back up about 100 machines in a corporate environment using about 25-50GB of disk space, assuming you exclude everyone's mp3s and whatnot.
Please help metamoderate.
Yes, I understand that. But since they were calling it free why didn't they offer it free for download?
The meme police, They live inside of my head
MacOS tries to be a desktop OS, and it succeeds brilliantly. However, MacOS does not try to be a mainframe OS. It doesn't run on mainframes, and would't do a very good job if it could. This is what Solaris and AIX do, and they do do a good job.
Solaris? A mainframe OS? Are you insane?!
You can only get the ADC Student discount if you're OVER 18, otherwise the NDA wouldn't be binding.
If you're under, they just provide the public resources.
You have to admit the name was some kind of bad omen. Hopefully it is revived and renamed.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Dashboard is not a browser, nor is it going to be built into the browser. If you browse to one of these Widgets the browser would not know what to do.
Instead, it is an application that makes use of a very widley used and understodd programming language to let you create these little Widgets. So it really is nothing like ActiveX at all, in that it is contained.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Given that I downloaded it for free via Software Update...
I seem to remember having 98 but having to pay extra for 98se (which I never did, and sometime later bought my Powerbook).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I had no idea I was so close to the mark. From all the comments so far, it seems very close indeed!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I remember in the mid nineties Apple would send me videos about various subjects. It was basically a guy talking about something like OpenDoc for a half hour, describing it in more detail than the press releases, showing sample applications, etc. I think these were phased out with the ever growing popularity of the web.
How is this post offtopic? If you read the article, it says Apple will be shipping with GCC 4.0.0.. an as-of-yet unreleased version.
I don't see how remarking on that is 'offtopic'.
(Anyway, no I'm not the original poster.. time for some meta-modding I guess.)
Java 1.5
Can't you see that everyone is buying station wagons?
over_exposed wrote:
how is what Apple is doing any different from what Microsoft does?
I think someone has all ready alluded to your question: Apple is primarily a hardware company that also creates software and a nice operating system that goes really well with it.
Microsoft developing OS software must be a whole lot like herding cats in that they do wish to push hardware developers in particular directions but really cannot force them to adopt certain hardware standards. Even back when Apple allowed clones (and their stock was at $14), they always pre-approved all hardware configurations. Microsoft has never had that kind of power over the hardware.
This is why operating an Apple Macintosh always conveys a complete experience that tends to be seamless and more friendly for the consumer. In much the same way that Mercedes Benz or Volvo can afford to innovate and offer new standards for the experience of driving their cars, Apple can offer a new innovation or adopt new standards (like Firewire, USB and hardware support for Open GL) that requires at least a year of coaxing from Microsoft.
Additionally, if Apple wants a better driver for something they want to hang on their box, it comes with the operating system or is available through Software Update. Microsoft has to coax the hardware manufacturer or count on user base demands to improve theirs. As a result, Microsoft's OS will have a tendency to have multiple DLLs and configuration files that fight with each other about what the expectation is for hardware and software. This is very much akin to the problems Macintosh users used to have with their System Software before OS X. One used to need several sets of Control Panels and System Extensions in order to have trouble-free operation with certain software. I had one set for Final Cut Pro use, another for graphics work and another for general use, each requiring a restart to change from one setup to another. The problem with Microsoft's OS is that there are no tools to disable some system settings and enable others. They're not helping the user in this respect even though needing to reboot to change settings is a pain.
Part of the Macintosh experience that I find so enjoyable is due, in part, to its status as the less-popular operating system. While it is certainly possible to create virus programs, worms, spyware and remote-control attack bots for Macintosh computers, Microsoft's operating systems present the more popular target. I have to regularly run repair programs on my girlfriend's computer to prevent malware from getting past its defenses, I don't have to with my Mac. While Apple is being vigilant about releasing repairs to their operating system, the concern is never as deep as with Microsoft's systems.
Microsoft is supporting more versions of their operating system. Apple isn't and doesn't have to. I know that Apple is still releasing patches for 10.2.x (Jaguar) even though 10.3.x is the latest OS. Microsoft has a very large user base still using Windows 2000 and must support both XP and XP Professional because they have decided to continue to bifurcate their operating system releases. One could argue the merits of that decision and I have heard Microsoft engineers talk about unifying the code "in the next release," but many large corporations are still using Windows NT because that's what their IT people know best and retraining takes time. Supporting the latest OS from Apple tends to be easier and more straightforward. In any case, Microsoft is frequently called upon to continue to support their legacy operating system software by their larger clientele -- Apple doesn't seem to have that problem.
I think the real activity from Apple has been about supporting innovations in hardware. Tiger's big attraction is 64-bit processing and Apple's current workstation class computers (along with some of the low-price computers, like the iMac) are 64-bit boxes. With Microsoft's OS, the software tends to lag hardware innovation more.
Gods don't kill people, people with gods kill people.
Speaking as someone who has to implement Macs at work, and likes to keep the Macs MORE functional in our environment than the PCs, this is a steal.
The cost of transition to 10.4 without my being able to learn the OS before it's released is in the multi-thousand dollar range.
Having a copy of OS X server to fiddle with lets this pay for itself (can you say non-production server?).
Getting point-releases on disc is quite important to anyone who has to master images. I'd rather use a 'native' 10.3.6 install than the disc that comes with the next Mac we purchase. There's some value there (though I can usually get one by asking for it from a sales rep).
If you're just some guy who wants to try 'tiger' out on your own, it's a waste of money, but if there are people who you need to stay ahead of and software you need to stay on top of, this has value.
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
It's true that Apple loses a bit of revenue on customers who decide to pirate the latest major upgrade, but if those customers are happier with their computer as a result of it, Apple is still going to make future revenue from them.
It also helps that OS X upgrades actually make the system faster, in my experience. I was always so reluctant to upgrade to the latest version of Windows back when I had a beige box, because the bloat would inevitably slow my poor little processor to a crawl. Windows 2000 was more stable than 98, to be sure, but also a lot more resource-hungry. That's a pretty notable contrast, and is more likely to inspire loyalty, even if not every Mac owner abstains from piracy.
Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a soportar Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a espabilar
Have you completely forgotten Windows 98 Second Edition?
That was not a free upgrade, and not even a year later. Sure, they introduced some new features (internet sharing to name one) but it was widely recognized at the time that it was mostly bug fixes that should have been released for free.
--Aaron Greenberg
i'm wondering what you have to say about Solaris then. IANA Sys-Admin
Your CPU is not doing anything else, at least do something.
Bullshit. It was never offered on Software Update. No wonder you posted Anonymous Liar.
The meme police, They live inside of my head
Microsoft will be suing them for patent infringement shortly.
Finally, evidence that the moderation system works.
Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1992-1951
When WebObjects transitioned to Java, EOF was killed in favor of EJB
Uhh... EOF is very much available, alongside EJB.
- Scott
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
Call it whatever you want, patches are still patches. The list of new features is not revolutionnary, by far (http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/)And it's not like they did it only once. Jaguar, Panther, and now Tiger...
I think the problem is that you're reading the watered-down description of the OS intended for casual consumers.
Quartz Extreme, Bindings (both Jaguar), Core Data, Spotlight and Automator (all Tiger) are certainly not "patches".
- Scott
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
"Microsoft developing OS software must be a whole lot like herding cats..."
:-P
Herding cats. Don't let anyone tell you it's easy. Anybody can herd cattle. But holding together 10,000 half-wild shorthairs, now that's another thing altogether. Being a cat herder is probably about the toughest thing I think I've ever done. You see the movies, you hear the stories... I'm livin' a dream. I wouldn't do anything else. It ain't an easy job, but when you bring a herd into town and you ain't lost a one of them, ain't a feeling like it in the world.
I just had to
The one I have has a loud constantly running fan and it gets real hot. The only time it seems to run cool is when its running off the battery. And yes, I run in reduced performance mode. I have tried resetting the power circuits to no avail.
It's true that Apple currently only ships dual processor machines.
Mac OS X, however, is heavily multi-threaded. Before Mac OS X was commercially released there were development Macs in Apple's labs running many parallel PowerPC 604 processors (I believe it was 32); the OS coped just fine and gave fantastic performance. They never shipped, however, primarily because they would have been very expensive.
Some time next year Apple will start putting in dual-core G5 chips into their top-end machines, giving you 4 CPUs. The word on the street is that there will be options for even more processors. Mac OS X is already designed to cope with this.
You can expect that versions of Xserve will also appear with many processors.
As for "high-end virtualisation, monitoring and enterprise volume management", I'm not really a server kind of guy. However does't Xserve RAID along with Xsan address those things?
coughcough
SCO
coughcough
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
It's an almost unknown and totally underrated piece of software, but it works fantastically well.
Is there that many hardware configuration for a PC ?
most of the people I know all have either a GeForce thing or an ATI Radeon XXXX. processors are the same, and they often get motherboards with similar chips.
And remember that Microsoft is greatly helped by manufacturers themselves who write the drivers...
well that's what I guess anyways.
Unlike some other CPU architectures, there is no performance penalty for running 32-bit applications on the G5.
Can someone explain me why one may be so sure that there is no performance penalty when all memory pointers in your application require twice the memory space (64bit instead of 32bit), and thus your application requires more memory, and thus your processor cache becomes relatively smaller for exactly the same application; in a time where processor speed is largely dominated by processors waiting for data ?
This is such a lie ! 64bit is in fact old technology, SGI has been doing it 10 years back when I was in college . And we always compiled our applications in 32bit mode, because they executed faster in 32bit than in 64bit mode, simply because memory access was the bottleneck. And that was back then when the gap between processing speed and memory (access) speed was even smaller.
IMHO, it is really only usefull if you want more than 4GB of (virtual) memory, or use very small amounts of memory (bare bones number crunching). Otherwise it simply slows down your application. In any case, you cannot guarantee it will work faster !
>Mac charged for
Attention dipshit: the name of the company is Apple.
At the time, the size was the given reason.
It was given away for free on CD at the Apple Stores. I think that Micro Center and CompUSA also offered it too.
Requiring people to fork out $500 for a beta, an ADC account, non-specific discounts on hardware and a release of 10.4 when it eventually appears seems like rather a lot. In fact it appears more like a revenue stream than as a way to keep the unwashed masses away. Perhaps if you were an Apple shop it might be worth it for the development lead in, but I don't see any reason for individual programmers to bother.
That is of course if the ADC weren't being changed too. XCode used to be a free download but since 1.5 not any more. I would not be surprised if 10.4 shipped without XCode 2.0 at all.
But getting back to 10.4 beta... if non-developers want an unstable, timebombed OS then let them. If it breaks it is their own tough shit. It's not like this thing won't be floating around the P2P networks within days of appearing anyway.
It was a joke son. Doesn't anyone around here have a sense of humor? Or do I have enclose everything in "HUMOR" tags?
According to this there's 36 species of cats. That's about $4600 worth of OSXs before they have to switch to something else. :)
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
There are no tiger attacks in my area and it's all because this rock I'm holding keeps the tigers away.
Actually, the firewall has been there since 10.0. They only added a GUI for it in 10.2. Before that, you had to use 3rd-party software to configure it.
XCode is a free download with the free ADC membership just as it always was.
$25 shipping fee would not stop non-developers, or inexperienced amateur programmers applying. The reason why they are not wanted is that they tend to fill developer forums with dumb assed posts like yours.
Nothing novel about it - Microsoft have been doing it for years!
I'm a perfectionist but I'm trying to cut back.
With MSDN you do not get "EVERYTHING" Microsoft makes.
The do not allow MSDN Subscribers to Download MS Games, or any Mac software...
You can get Virtual PC for Windows on MSDN , but not the Mac verison for example...
MSDN is nice, but its not everything.
Do you think that a service pack as i will call tiger should be charged for. It is not a totally new operating system. When microsoft releases a new operating system there are often quite a few changes.
3.11-->95 8.bit-->psuedo 32bit (32bit gui on 16bit dos)
95-->98 totally 32bit with additional features
98-->Me Was not needed totally sucked
NT-->2000 Many Advancements. Better Gui Improved functionality and support for many new features.
2000-->xp Lots OF new Features To many to describe
XP-->longhorn Whole rewrite of operating system
No charge for windows service pagks
I'm glad to say that I was mistaken. However, I still reckon there is a good chance that XCode will become a standalone product.
It doesn't matter if you call it a service pack or not. You are not the arbiter. I could list the many new features of each new Mac OS version, just as you have for Windows. But why would I actually bother listing the detail for a worthless AC troll with a zero score?
http://developer.apple.com/membership/pdf/terms.pd f
"You agree not to disclose, publish, or disseminate Confidential Information to anyone other than those employees and contractors working for the same entity as you who have an existing ADC membership."
Create an "entity" (or just walk down the office hall), both of you can talk.
$500 is a deal. My MSDN membership is a multi-year cost pushing $1K a year. The benefits of pro developer subscriptions have been already mentioned, but I wouldn't expect the small shop to necessarily understand the benefits. When there is high risk or high money involved, it is worth it to be in the program where you get all the updates, can test on all the products, and have access to forums and documentation that otherwise wouldn't be available.
What evidence do you have that suggests that? The way that Apple is dealing with seeding Xcode 2.0 is exactly like what they've done for all previous versions of Xcode and ProjectBuilder
There are no tiger attacks in my area and it's all because this rock I'm holding keeps the tigers away.
Actually Windows XP has fast user switching while Windows 2000 didn't. Windows XP was definately different from Windows 2000, whether or not it was BETTER has yet to be determined. :P
Now the jump from Windows 98 to 98SE and the jump from 98SE to ME were both worthless. 95 to 98 added USB support, and ME to XP added stability (though ME to house of cards adds stability too.)
On the Apple front, I can't say much because the only OS I've ever owned was Panther. I've used Jaguar before and I can honestly say I'd upgrade, if not just for expose.
Thanks, I did not know that.
but what you don't realize is that 10.4 is like a windows service pack only you don't have to pay for service packs. Windows when it changes it truely changes it doesn't just add features. From 3.11 to 95 we had 16 bit gui to 32bit gui from 95 to 98 we got true 32 bit extensions in the dos part of it. ME well that well all know was junk. We disavow this one. os2 to nt lots of changes from nt 2000 can't count how many changes, 2000 to xp alot of stuff is totally different just way to much stuff to add and now we will move on to longhorn which is a totally rewritten os. tell me. 10.4 true brand new os or just a service pack you have to pay for?????
thing is do i pay for service packs no! keyword. I just got service pack 2 added features as crappy as they maybe, still only a service pack, fixes bugs and makes minor upgrades. Os 10.4 adds features and bug fixes. Boy that sounds like alot of niave people who forgot i beliece it was 10.1 was free right?
10.4 is a service pack. How many times must people explain it does not change the operating system just makes bug fixes and adds minor software enhancements. Guess what it's just a service pack. xp-->longhorn totally new os. os9-->os x new os 10.0-->10.1 not new os, service pack and so on and so forth
You know i disagree with that all the added features you pay for are what we in the windows world call software updates and new drivers. It is like getting clone cd 4 and then downloading the update clone cd 4.1 i still own the software just updated. See you say they have added tons of features did you notice that the new 10.4 tiger actually has something called the dashbar hmmm... sounds just like a beta peice of software microsoft had called dashbar oooooooohhh is mac pulling a microsoft and stealing there idea?
Ms Dashboard
Apples dashbar
Of course most people aren't as fixated on address pointer width being the sole feature worth paying for. The key is this: If it's a set of bug fixes and/or vulnerability patches with very little new functionality then it's a service pack. If it provides significant new functionality it's a new major version. That's the same whether we're talking Windows or Mac OS.
I don't understand what you are saying. Could you rephrase it please.
10.0 to 10.1 was free because 10.0 was crap
but the other upgrades have all added significant new features to the operating system. They aren't upgrades and bugfixes, bugfixes happen in the 10.x.y series, which seem to be bimonthly or so.
Longhorn is still based on the NT kernel. Oh wow, it adds a new graphics system - 10.2 did that for Mac OS X. WinFS got shelved. There isn't much else going into Longhorn except more desktop wastage for fancy clocks and to up CPU requirements, and lots and lots of DRM. 10.4 is introducing CoreGraphics on Mac OS X, a major new feature. Maybe Longhorn's new graphics capabilities are going to be as major as Quartz Extreme (10.2) and CoreGraphics (10.4) together, but Apple will still be releasing 10.4 a whole year ahead of Longhorn.
I think that $129 to upgrade say, 10.2 to 10.4 is worth it in terms of extra features. I don't think that it is really worth it to upgrade 10.2 to 10.3 or 10.3 to 10.4 however. That should cost $79.
meh, a new powerbook will probably be grandfathered in to get a free copy of Tiger, depending on how long you wait. Server, on the other hand, does make it worth it :)
Unfortunately Apple doesn't have professional developer forums. Not even a mailing list for anything covered by an NDA.
...
People will occasionally mention something covered by an Apple NDA on one of the Apple mailing lists (such as cocoa-dev) and then inevitably someone will follow up with a reply saying that such things aren't allowed on the list, followed by a reply by the original poster asking where such things can be discussed, followed by silence
-- Tim Buchheim
Not even similar. Apple's Dashboard is actually a ripoff of Konfabulator, except that it's more fully integrated with Exposé and uses Safari as its rendering engine.
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
So, the new version of OS X being 64-bit isn't as significant as going from a 16-bit GUI to a 32-bit GUI? Who are you trying to kid here? Sorry, but your interpretation that the upgrades to OS X are like Windows service packs is completely wrong too.
Besides all that, Apple charges $130 for the fully implemented OS, not $300 like MS does. You can get more than two full updates of OS X for the retail price of one professional update to Windows software.
Another thing, 2000 was not a release to the general public, that was what ME was supposedly for. And it fell far short of all expectations, like most other releases of Windows.
First, Tiger has Dashboard, not Dashbar. If anything, Apple's Dashboard is similar to Konfabulator which was out long before MS conceived of ShortHorn. On top of that, the concept for the Dashboard has been in the Apple OS since back in OS 6, the concept of an extensible desktop interface that would allow various controls of different components was simply called "Control Panel" back then, it was extensible, but not web enabled, so it wasn't an html based program. The guy that claims to have created Konfabulator used to work for Apple. If you want to discuss the possibility of stealing you should know the history better.
I've been working with Messaging for years, and even on Novell networks, most people choose to run Exchange over Groupwise.
But, Groupwise does deserve mention I suppose with it's Exchangeish features and Outlook integration, with shared calendars.
Maybe some really big shops run the Oracle stuff, but I've never seen it.
- It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
Wow, someone on /. spreading FUD that can't read, write or spell... What a surprise. HAHAHAHAHA
It's called Bittorrent ;-)
No, you pay for both. Expectation of increased security is just one of the many tactics used to convince people to upgrade. You also fail to see that software companies push VERY hard the belief that if you don't upgrade, you will be "left out". This may be a scare tactic, and not the best reason in the world to upgrade, but it DOES influence your buying decision. Mainly because the technology world moves so fast that it's important for people to remain current with what is going on. (Software companies abuse this idea all the time to get people to upgrade.)
Perhaps this video might shed some light on the subject?
Slashdot's first reaction to VMware
Instead of any of my other email addresses? Maybe I should post my Gmail address for you, I don't get enough spam there yet...
i.e. it's nice for seeing what tools Apple put in their Server version of OS X, but not really much more useful than that for anyone other than developers.
-fred
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.
Indeed, it is. But if you want a copy of OS X Server for development purposes (gotta make sure your great new game runs on servers ;) paying $500 for membership and getting a bunch of other goodies too sure beats paying $499 just for the software.
Windows 95 OEM == Windows 4.0
Windows 95 Retail == Windows 4.1
Windows 95 OEMSR2 == Windows 4.3
Windows 98 == Windows 4.4
Windows 98 SE == Windows 4.5
Windows ME == Windows 4.6
Not insightful, -5 Ignorant Boob. Apple's developer tools and most if not all SDK's are a free download. The $$ memberships get you big discounts on hardware and tools and OS updates mailed to you. Then try comparing the price of Apple's professional memberships and software to Microsofts, and then get back to us.
Well, as an OS X user since 10.0.3 I'd have to say you're comparing apples to oranges.
No, he's not.
10 to 10.1 was primarily bug fixes
What do you think Windows 95 -> 98 was? How about Windows 98 -> ME?
You can't get security patches from Apple for 10.1 which is much younger than Win 2000.
True. A spades a spade in that case.
If 10.4 is a service pack, then 2000 was a service pack to NT. And XP is a service pack for 2000.
**Features
Microsoft is just like a home appliance company: rather than trying to make the best product, they just keep adding new features to it to differntiate it from the last years model. Its adding features for the sake of adding features, which is why we have the god awful XP start menu, one reason why they are so many Windows vunerabilities out there (Outlook and Active X. 'Nuf said).
This is what seperates Apple from Microsoft. Apple likes adding new features, but they actually take the time to see if they are useful, as opposed to Microsoft who throws them in so they have more billets on a list of reasons to upgrade. Perfect example: personalized menus. Worst. Gui. Idea. Ever.
http://forums.madrigal.org.uk