i understand that the site is down now, but um... did you read the intro at least ? the part that says : "home media pc. It's DVB-T and HDTV capable, network ready (streaming, control, sharing). Has all the standard PVR features (real time pause, scheduling, listings etc). Plus you own the hardware, get support and get updates/maintenance."
the OS is going to be the last thing you change on an desktop
indeed, because even though gradual migration will take longer time and resources, it allows sloppier planning, fsckups are less serious and human factor (resistance mostly) is smaller.
Kolab and kmail are as far as I know Linux only solutions. We are currently stuck using Windows for at least some desktops.
kmail might run on windows with qt/kde 4, but that's a weak consolation:) there are connectors for outlook-to-kolab (http://www.kolab.org/kolab-plugins.html), but migrating from outlook to kmail together with operating system might be slightly harder than separating these steps (as both can not be used on a single account simultaneously).
kmail also supposedly supports openxchange, which in turn has a powerful web interface which could be used as an intermediate version (though that might not work for roaming clients who are often disconnected).
then there's zimbra, which has even more powerful web interface in some aspects, but some parts that are crucial for enterprise are not opensource. supposedly supports outlook and thunderbird/sunbird duo, but nothing on kmail...
i'm really waiting for lightning that could be paired with a fully opensource powerful server that had almost identical gui to "fat" client...
i might agree on sharepoint (though there are cases when svn or some other data synchronisation solution would be sufficient), but you mentioned kmail. as far as i know, kolab server + kmail supposedly provides pretty decent calendaring solution.
then you can go in different direction and functionality with openxchange, evolution etcetc.
somebody suggested lightning - and i am eagerly looking forward to what will become of it, but it really is in very early alpha stage right now (i have tried a couple of recent builds).
In at least Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA (population 200,000), most of the venues that have live music and affordable cover charges are bars (similar to "pubs" in the UK). Laws in all 50 states prohibit children under 21 from entering bars in order to prevent alcohol sales to minors.
ahh, but that's the problem with the venues as such. if they wanted to attract underage public, why not split alcohol selling part from performing part ? of course, that provides additional problems for grownups etc, but if they determined that having those clients that can not attend currently is wort the changes - that's not very hard to do.
of course, it probably is made worse by (imho) ridiculous age restriction of 21 for alcohol purchase. giving rights to car handling at 18 (or even less somewhere in usa ?) should indicate that the person is considered to be responsible enough for hos/her actions. it's not like it somehow prevents them from getting the alcohol, and it somehow seems funny from here that somebody at age 20 (when it is possible to have 2 or more years of driving, a couple of kids and a wife) is prohibited to buy alcohol - that includes beer, right ? is the same restriction also in effect in regards to smoking products ?
and probably these things are enforced much more in usa than in most of the europe - especially at small places that don't have habits of drug dealers and overall destructive impact on nearby facilities (usually caused by drugged kids from rich families - but they aren't interested in this kind of music;) ). biggest places have more serious facecontrol, though.
additionally, it is possible to use unusual places for gigs - old hangars, some christian venues, places owned by artist communions. some non-commercial projects also have their own venues (it's like an overall environment project that is closely collaborating with all kinds of artists and partially funded by govt and several funds) where the best gigs have been. these places have no alcohol trading going on, thus basically no limits on attending public age.
So how can the band members, who are not songwriting specialists, verify that they haven't inadvertently misappropriated music that is already copyrighted?
it's probably bad that i can't even determine wether you were being serious or sarcastic and trying to turn attention to the problem.
it's bad enough that in software world we have these ridiculous patents where you can not write anything withoug infringing on several dozens at least. should book authors require an army of lawyers that check all the books for possible clashes ? what about painters, sculptors ? oh, oh, i know ! let's protect the voices, if a singer has a voice similar to another that was there first - ban.
now, i understand that this is a serious problem, but i would prefer approcahing it differently. too bad a lot of people profit heavily from the current system.
note that i dislike plagitarism a lot, but i don't think courts are the way out. educated public could be.
> in that case people go to concerts for a very low fee ($2)
Most of the venues that have such low ticket prices are required by law not to admit anybody under 21 years of age.
where laws are like this ? and why ? i haven't heard of such a restrictive law. actually, here places that host independent/indy bands have much lower prices and better atmosphere than purely on popculture focused ones - and i though that was the norm. those places are attended by all ages depending on the artists, but mostly they are for young people (even way below 18 - some of them want a good mosic, too;) )
What about the people that wrote the music, wrote the lyrics, recorded and mixed the tracks, corrected the artist's singing flaws during editing, the people who created the cover art, the people who advertise and market the album\
ugh. i just love more and more punk, indie and whatnot scene... you know, the one where band members THEMSELVES (gasp !) write music & lyrics (that, suprisingly actually mean something besides "baby, oh yeah, lalala") ? the one where recordings are made in small studios and artist flaws are not digitally eliminated for months ? the one where band members themselves draw/create album art ? the one where most advertising is by word of mouth, concerting and such ?
yes, such a mechanism does not earn billions for big studios and everybody around them, but isn't that something most people are happy with ? yes, artists don't get millions (or an _impression_ that they are getting them...), but it's funny that in that case people go to concerts for a very low fee ($2) and get recordings from artists directly or with very little resellers. even if they already have full doscography in their computers and then some more. they don't pay for these albums because they are unable to get to the music other way - they do so because they really like the music, the atmosphere in concerts and attitude by the band/artist. now, i need to see one band in latvia again, as previous time i was not clear enough to buy all their cds;) (yes, paprika korps, that means you;) ).
no, really, ignore music stores. if you are interested in local artists, most of them sell their recordings themselves. if they are from another country, usually you can order throufh internet or wait for a gig nearby. and that will result in a good music, happy artists - and happy you. yeah, and world peace, of course.
hmm. what about it ? if i understood you correctly, keeping files on a shared location is in no way comparable to versioning server that can branch data, merge changes, manage commits/updates...
ahh, ok. i just assumed that is going together with versioning system as it would be pretty useless without such tools. svn has all that functionality... still for plaintext only:) (except "finalize documents", as i missed that one again;) )
svn probably would be the best bet (it has versioning, braching, merging and other features), but it is for plaintext files. so this would require something that could use change information from the documents and represent it meaningfully. merging also could be a problem as it would require both server and user interface support.
there were some talks about svn ability to pipe data through other software for storage or ability to work on "container" files (like zip in odf), but that would still be insufficient.
about your second point - that is doable right now, it is awfully easy for an average coder to integrate odf into whatever appliances. it's just that every company will want different data, different reports and automatisation. creating software that could do all this for all the countries probably is near impossible today (it might take off after we have serious ai:) ). if a company needs such a functionality, it probably is easier and more efficient to hire some person who could write up simple data mining interface that would just unzip contents, get the data and produce the report (actually that probably could even be scripted in the most simple cases).
i'm not quite sure what you meant with management tools, though:)
Yes, it takes 15 seconds to find it. (I suspect that's an exaggeration for someone who doesn't have someone else there. I know at least I started going through menus just reading every option. I'd guess that'd take 30 seconds.)
But then it takes another 15 seconds to find the track changes feature. Maybe another 15 seconds to figure out how to add a header or footer (depending on what version of Word you're coming from). And another 15 seconds to figure out how to insert the page number.
it's probably harder to justify for people who use the software once a week. if you use it every day, learning the differences once isn't that much of a problem. besides, ms changes the interface, too. how do these people adapt then ? if somebody doesn't want to change, any reason will be good.
That's not hard to overcome though... you can add a 3rd party PDF output tool. It's more complicated, but I'd have it anyway for other programs. It's more flexible too.
is that the one that acts like a printer ? if so, it is not more flexible, because bookmarks, clickable index and other things won't work. if not, it has to hook into the exporting program.
Office is probably the worse MS software to use as an example of this actually.
still you have a freedom to move from one platform to another, use the same format etc. not that you have to do that every week:)
Oh, and isn't the Mac build not native, and runs through X11
there are two builds - x11 and neooffice/j. second one supposedly is better at integrating, but it is not the latest & reatest version. too bad apple is not embracing oo.org:/
I don't know my way around styles much, especially in OO.o; can you explain how it's better?
they work ?:) no, really, you have to work with them and understand what they do. unless you already knew, take a look at http://oooauthors.org/en/authors/userguide2/writer /published_final/0207WG-WorkingWithStyles.odt (or any other styles guide). then there's the fact that msoffice has no concept of page styles at all (so i am told). which can result in veeeery interesting documents that are impossible to fix in msword.
I'm also a big fan of native widgets too.
um. oo.org 2.0 should use native widgets, wether they are win/gtk/qt (qt might have been added at some later 2.0.x version). and generic widgets are not dropped.
i suggest you try latest stable oo.org version. if something is not working like it should, report it.
ahh. yes, compiling instruction contain something about getting ocaml compiler and gtk libraries... too bad, probable chances of finding anybody illing to maintain it are very small.
i understand it's mature, but that doesn't mean it can not be improved;) it seems that running unison with -auto -batch does what i want - it syncs the thing, then pops up a window showing the status and conflicts. nnice.
wonder why it isn't widely known...
anyway, i looked over bugs & todo lists - impressive;) most is in a "not so important" cathegory, a lot is about windows (that i don't care about currently) - but some things would be really nice to have.
hopefully this little publicity will atract some developers to it;)
um. that's not both ways, actually. to be fair, i don't see the point from the second command, except that, as you mentioned, files deleted on one of sources will reappear.
after the site is back up, check out what unison (and ifolder) provides - that is a real two-way sync which can handle deletions and multiple users making changes to their own copy of fils, then syncing it with a central repository. and always getting the latest merged version of data, except for conflicts (two users making changes to the same files) that have to be resolved manually - but that all is handled in a failsafe way and you have different options.
unison looks very, very cool - too bad it's not actively developed any more, ui could have some small improvements:)
are you using gui or commandline version ? is it possible to run commandline version to update definite changes, skip conflicts and pop up gui with conflicts only ?
i would like to automate it so that complete beginners in linux would have no difficulties using it.
crap. "Unison is no longer under active development as a research project. (Our research efforts in this area are now focused on a follow-on project called Harmonymore details are available on the Harmony home page.) At this point, there is no one whose job it is to maintain Unison, fix bugs, or answer questions.
However, the original developers are all still using Unison daily. It will continue to be maintained and supported for the foreseeable future, and we will occasionally release new versions with bug fixes, small improvements, and contributed patches."
and it seems the page is down. slashdot ? this seems to be very valuable project, so hopefully it will survive and prosper. unfortunately i can't get to the files to check their age, which could indicate wether it is abandoned completely or not:)
hmm. how does that differ from rsync solution ? that only provides one-way synchronisation. anyway, i'll try some more unison that somebody else suggested - it really seems nice:)
well, it's similar here... getting a pirated software, games, music or movies on nicely mass-produced cds/dvds with a nice printed cover is very easy.
police is caring only about businesses (and then mostly is used as inter-business weapon). i would estimate that software piracy rate among individuals is something close to 98-99% (maybe more if you count all sharewares that are run forever). nobody bothers them. actually, you could just check "ok, this house has a computer ? let's get an order, there's close to 100% probability a pirated software is used there". to make things easier, tracking by internet connection might be used as first indication that the household has a computer.
wow. from the description it really looks like it's exactly what i want. http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/ seems to be the offical homepage. too bad there are no screenshots of gtk interface;)...and it's even in suse packman repository. and it seems to work. thank you:)
i am actually looking for file synchronisation solution for linux for some time now. i would prefer somethnig that can sync in both ways (thus rsync does not cut this time), something that requires no special server and additional software on file server (so it is able to work with plain smb/nfs shares) - thus ifolder and svn solutions fail.
to increase possibility of results, i'd like to add that windows has built-in file synchronisation mechanism that is able to sync files to simple file share (from user interface it looks like 'offline files' or something similar).
Slashdot Mirror
i understand that the site is down now, but um... did you read the intro at least ?
the part that says :
"home media pc. It's DVB-T and HDTV capable, network ready (streaming, control, sharing). Has all the standard PVR features (real time pause, scheduling, listings etc). Plus you own the hardware, get support and get updates/maintenance."
are you SURE you just didn't press tab twice in the wrong console ? ;)
"Even the drivers in /dev and operating system internals in /proc can both recieve and output data via text from the shell!"
;)
Sounds like a security hole to me...
why ? would accessing them through a gui would be more secure ?
the OS is going to be the last thing you change on an desktop
:)
indeed, because even though gradual migration will take longer time and resources, it allows sloppier planning, fsckups are less serious and human factor (resistance mostly) is smaller.
Kolab and kmail are as far as I know Linux only solutions. We are currently stuck using Windows for at least some desktops.
kmail might run on windows with qt/kde 4, but that's a weak consolation
there are connectors for outlook-to-kolab (http://www.kolab.org/kolab-plugins.html), but migrating from outlook to kmail together with operating system might be slightly harder than separating these steps (as both can not be used on a single account simultaneously).
kmail also supposedly supports openxchange, which in turn has a powerful web interface which could be used as an intermediate version (though that might not work for roaming clients who are often disconnected).
then there's zimbra, which has even more powerful web interface in some aspects, but some parts that are crucial for enterprise are not opensource. supposedly supports outlook and thunderbird/sunbird duo, but nothing on kmail...
i'm really waiting for lightning that could be paired with a fully opensource powerful server that had almost identical gui to "fat" client...
i might agree on sharepoint (though there are cases when svn or some other data synchronisation solution would be sufficient), but you mentioned kmail.
as far as i know, kolab server + kmail supposedly provides pretty decent calendaring solution.
then you can go in different direction and functionality with openxchange, evolution etcetc.
somebody suggested lightning - and i am eagerly looking forward to what will become of it, but it really is in very early alpha stage right now (i have tried a couple of recent builds).
In at least Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA (population 200,000), most of the venues that have live music and affordable cover charges are bars (similar to "pubs" in the UK). Laws in all 50 states prohibit children under 21 from entering bars in order to prevent alcohol sales to minors.
;) ). biggest places have more serious facecontrol, though.
ahh, but that's the problem with the venues as such. if they wanted to attract underage public, why not split alcohol selling part from performing part ?
of course, that provides additional problems for grownups etc, but if they determined that having those clients that can not attend currently is wort the changes - that's not very hard to do.
of course, it probably is made worse by (imho) ridiculous age restriction of 21 for alcohol purchase. giving rights to car handling at 18 (or even less somewhere in usa ?) should indicate that the person is considered to be responsible enough for hos/her actions.
it's not like it somehow prevents them from getting the alcohol, and it somehow seems funny from here that somebody at age 20 (when it is possible to have 2 or more years of driving, a couple of kids and a wife) is prohibited to buy alcohol - that includes beer, right ?
is the same restriction also in effect in regards to smoking products ?
and probably these things are enforced much more in usa than in most of the europe - especially at small places that don't have habits of drug dealers and overall destructive impact on nearby facilities (usually caused by drugged kids from rich families - but they aren't interested in this kind of music
additionally, it is possible to use unusual places for gigs - old hangars, some christian venues, places owned by artist communions. some non-commercial projects also have their own venues (it's like an overall environment project that is closely collaborating with all kinds of artists and partially funded by govt and several funds) where the best gigs have been.
these places have no alcohol trading going on, thus basically no limits on attending public age.
So how can the band members, who are not songwriting specialists, verify that they haven't inadvertently misappropriated music that is already copyrighted?
;) )
it's probably bad that i can't even determine wether you were being serious or sarcastic and trying to turn attention to the problem.
it's bad enough that in software world we have these ridiculous patents where you can not write anything withoug infringing on several dozens at least.
should book authors require an army of lawyers that check all the books for possible clashes ? what about painters, sculptors ? oh, oh, i know ! let's protect the voices, if a singer has a voice similar to another that was there first - ban.
now, i understand that this is a serious problem, but i would prefer approcahing it differently. too bad a lot of people profit heavily from the current system.
note that i dislike plagitarism a lot, but i don't think courts are the way out. educated public could be.
> in that case people go to concerts for a very low fee ($2)
Most of the venues that have such low ticket prices are required by law not to admit anybody under 21 years of age.
where laws are like this ? and why ?
i haven't heard of such a restrictive law. actually, here places that host independent/indy bands have much lower prices and better atmosphere than purely on popculture focused ones - and i though that was the norm. those places are attended by all ages depending on the artists, but mostly they are for young people (even way below 18 - some of them want a good mosic, too
What about the people that wrote the music, wrote the lyrics, recorded and mixed the tracks, corrected the artist's singing flaws during editing, the people who created the cover art, the people who advertise and market the album\
;) (yes, paprika korps, that means you ;) ).
ugh. i just love more and more punk, indie and whatnot scene...
you know, the one where band members THEMSELVES (gasp !) write music & lyrics (that, suprisingly actually mean something besides "baby, oh yeah, lalala") ?
the one where recordings are made in small studios and artist flaws are not digitally eliminated for months ?
the one where band members themselves draw/create album art ?
the one where most advertising is by word of mouth, concerting and such ?
yes, such a mechanism does not earn billions for big studios and everybody around them, but isn't that something most people are happy with ?
yes, artists don't get millions (or an _impression_ that they are getting them...), but it's funny that in that case people go to concerts for a very low fee ($2) and get recordings from artists directly or with very little resellers. even if they already have full doscography in their computers and then some more.
they don't pay for these albums because they are unable to get to the music other way - they do so because they really like the music, the atmosphere in concerts and attitude by the band/artist.
now, i need to see one band in latvia again, as previous time i was not clear enough to buy all their cds
no, really, ignore music stores. if you are interested in local artists, most of them sell their recordings themselves. if they are from another country, usually you can order throufh internet or wait for a gig nearby. and that will result in a good music, happy artists - and happy you. yeah, and world peace, of course.
Web tools?
now, it's strange you dare to mention this...
webmasters, charge !
hmm. what about it ?
if i understood you correctly, keeping files on a shared location is in no way comparable to versioning server that can branch data, merge changes, manage commits/updates...
ahh, ok. i just assumed that is going together with versioning system as it would be pretty useless without such tools. svn has all that functionality... still for plaintext only :) (except "finalize documents", as i missed that one again ;) )
too bad i already commented here - i would gladly spend my modpoints on that ;)
svn probably would be the best bet (it has versioning, braching, merging and other features), but it is for plaintext files. so this would require something that could use change information from the documents and represent it meaningfully. merging also could be a problem as it would require both server and user interface support.
:) ). if a company needs such a functionality, it probably is easier and more efficient to hire some person who could write up simple data mining interface that would just unzip contents, get the data and produce the report (actually that probably could even be scripted in the most simple cases).
:)
there were some talks about svn ability to pipe data through other software for storage or ability to work on "container" files (like zip in odf), but that would still be insufficient.
about your second point - that is doable right now, it is awfully easy for an average coder to integrate odf into whatever appliances. it's just that every company will want different data, different reports and automatisation. creating software that could do all this for all the countries probably is near impossible today (it might take off after we have serious ai
i'm not quite sure what you meant with management tools, though
miguel ?
Yes, it takes 15 seconds to find it. (I suspect that's an exaggeration for someone who doesn't have someone else there. I know at least I started going through menus just reading every option. I'd guess that'd take 30 seconds.)
:)
:/
:)r /published_final/0207WG-WorkingWithStyles.odt (or any other styles guide). then there's the fact that msoffice has no concept of page styles at all (so i am told). which can result in veeeery interesting documents that are impossible to fix in msword.
But then it takes another 15 seconds to find the track changes feature. Maybe another 15 seconds to figure out how to add a header or footer (depending on what version of Word you're coming from). And another 15 seconds to figure out how to insert the page number.
it's probably harder to justify for people who use the software once a week. if you use it every day, learning the differences once isn't that much of a problem. besides, ms changes the interface, too. how do these people adapt then ? if somebody doesn't want to change, any reason will be good.
That's not hard to overcome though... you can add a 3rd party PDF output tool. It's more complicated, but I'd have it anyway for other programs. It's more flexible too.
is that the one that acts like a printer ? if so, it is not more flexible, because bookmarks, clickable index and other things won't work. if not, it has to hook into the exporting program.
Office is probably the worse MS software to use as an example of this actually.
still you have a freedom to move from one platform to another, use the same format etc. not that you have to do that every week
Oh, and isn't the Mac build not native, and runs through X11
there are two builds - x11 and neooffice/j. second one supposedly is better at integrating, but it is not the latest & reatest version. too bad apple is not embracing oo.org
I don't know my way around styles much, especially in OO.o; can you explain how it's better?
they work ?
no, really, you have to work with them and understand what they do.
unless you already knew, take a look at http://oooauthors.org/en/authors/userguide2/write
I'm also a big fan of native widgets too.
um. oo.org 2.0 should use native widgets, wether they are win/gtk/qt (qt might have been added at some later 2.0.x version). and generic widgets are not dropped.
i suggest you try latest stable oo.org version. if something is not working like it should, report it.
ahh. yes, compiling instruction contain something about getting ocaml compiler and gtk libraries... too bad, probable chances of finding anybody illing to maintain it are very small.
i understand it's mature, but that doesn't mean it can not be improved ;)
;)
;)
it seems that running unison with -auto -batch does what i want - it syncs the thing, then pops up a window showing the status and conflicts. nnice.
wonder why it isn't widely known...
anyway, i looked over bugs & todo lists - impressive
most is in a "not so important" cathegory, a lot is about windows (that i don't care about currently) - but some things would be really nice to have.
hopefully this little publicity will atract some developers to it
um. that's not both ways, actually.
:)
to be fair, i don't see the point from the second command, except that, as you mentioned, files deleted on one of sources will reappear.
after the site is back up, check out what unison (and ifolder) provides - that is a real two-way sync which can handle deletions and multiple users making changes to their own copy of fils, then syncing it with a central repository. and always getting the latest merged version of data, except for conflicts (two users making changes to the same files) that have to be resolved manually - but that all is handled in a failsafe way and you have different options.
unison looks very, very cool - too bad it's not actively developed any more, ui could have some small improvements
are you using gui or commandline version ?
is it possible to run commandline version to update definite changes, skip conflicts and pop up gui with conflicts only ?
i would like to automate it so that complete beginners in linux would have no difficulties using it.
crap.
:)
"Unison is no longer under active development as a research project. (Our research efforts in this area are now focused on a follow-on project called Harmonymore details are available on the Harmony home page.) At this point, there is no one whose job it is to maintain Unison, fix bugs, or answer questions.
However, the original developers are all still using Unison daily. It will continue to be maintained and supported for the foreseeable future, and we will occasionally release new versions with bug fixes, small improvements, and contributed patches."
and it seems the page is down. slashdot ?
this seems to be very valuable project, so hopefully it will survive and prosper.
unfortunately i can't get to the files to check their age, which could indicate wether it is abandoned completely or not
it does ? ;)
automatic file synchronisation (both ways) isn't built into ftp servers/clients, i think
hmm. how does that differ from rsync solution ? that only provides one-way synchronisation. anyway, i'll try some more unison that somebody else suggested - it really seems nice :)
well, it's similar here...
getting a pirated software, games, music or movies on nicely mass-produced cds/dvds with a nice printed cover is very easy.
police is caring only about businesses (and then mostly is used as inter-business weapon). i would estimate that software piracy rate among individuals is something close to 98-99% (maybe more if you count all sharewares that are run forever).
nobody bothers them. actually, you could just check "ok, this house has a computer ? let's get an order, there's close to 100% probability a pirated software is used there". to make things easier, tracking by internet connection might be used as first indication that the household has a computer.
and this is europe, european union.
wow. from the description it really looks like it's exactly what i want. ;) ...and it's even in suse packman repository. and it seems to work. :)
http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/ seems to be the offical homepage.
too bad there are no screenshots of gtk interface
thank you
i am actually looking for file synchronisation solution for linux for some time now.
i would prefer somethnig that can sync in both ways (thus rsync does not cut this time), something that requires no special server and additional software on file server (so it is able to work with plain smb/nfs shares) - thus ifolder and svn solutions fail.
to increase possibility of results, i'd like to add that windows has built-in file synchronisation mechanism that is able to sync files to simple file share (from user interface it looks like 'offline files' or something similar).
is there anything comparable for linux ?