This is something that really pisses me off. As a Gentoo developer and user, I can't stand seeing these fanboys spouting this utter crap.
Watching GCC output scroll by will not teach you a damn thing about Linux. Doing a stage1 installation teaches you exactly two things:
/usr/portage/scripts/bootstrap.sh emerge -e system
Nothing else.
Anyone who tells you otherwise is completely full of crap. Also, there is no difference in a system compiled from stage1, and a system built using a stage3 tarball and GRP, then customized and recompiled. The only difference is that I can get a system up and running in an hour or so (only because of the kernel compile) and then I can use my system while I recompile with my specified USE flags, while the "stage1 is so 1337" asshats are still staring at a console of scrolling text.
While I definitely think that the Gentoo community is one of its greatest assets, I also firmly believe that these vocal minority of fanboys are one of its greatest liabilities.
I really have to agree with you. There should be a paper trail on this sort of thing. If that is "taxing manpower" then I have to ask you, what the hell were you actually doing before?
I would love to see these white-collar criminals treating like the self-serving scum that they really are. Maybe we need to see a few of them get the business end of a night stick. Maybe we need to see them paraded out of their homes, which are promptly seized by the police, and into the back of squad cars with their crying, spoiled little wives screaming as they are taken away. I really cannot stand to see this sort of corruption go unpunished. These men and women are criminals, just like anyone who steals money via any other means. Why do we insist on treating them like they're VIP's?
Why would Apple design a 2 button mouse? Is that not insane? Wouldn't it make more sense to design at least a 3 button mouse with a wheel? What would really be gained by simply adding a second button?
For Arnold to become the president, an amendment would have to be ratified to the Constitution. This could be avoided pretty easily by invading and annexing Austria. Once Austria becomes a part of the United States, Arnold could become president, all without involving that whole changing the Constitution thing in the way.
Actually, one can simply edit the.pcf file from the Cisco VPN to keep it from breaking the local networking. There's an option in the file that disables the local LAN.
The testing happens on the test server. The test server gets re-boot'ed. That is what test servers are for.
Why would I need to shut down a production server because I applied an update to Exim?
Wow. Thanks for the complete asinine response. Nobody said that you should reboot the server for every change. You did restart exim, right? Would that not be the testing required? Did you bother to check your runlevel to ensure the service is set to start on reboot?
If you feel the need to re-boot your system after anything other than a kernel patch, you need to either:
#1. Get yourself some education so you can maintain a decent system....or... #2. Switch to a stable system that doesn't corrupt itself.
When the systems are stable and maintained correctly, the customers will see nice uptime. Don't confuse one of the results with the primary goal.
I'm not confused, at all. I have enough sense to know that there are many more changes than a kernel update that can stop a system from booting. Filesystems that are supposed to mount at boot but were never added to fstab, or a broken init script can stop a server dead in its tracks. There's also the issue of upstream vendor patch sets that implement multiple patches simultaneously. In cases such as this it is infinitely easier and quicker to simply reboot the server than to stop and restart every affected service in the proper order. I have better things to do with my time than sit around babysitting a patch process that could be tested much quicker via a reboot. This is after running through the development environment, of course.
I am really starting to think that we are talking about completely different styles of systems management here. I am speaking of very large systems with expendable nodes. A system large enough that you expect failures on a daily basis. When you have more than a handful of servers performing the same function in a clustered environment, having one or two reboot is not only non-catastrophic, but expected to retain functionality in such a large mixed environment.
Have you ever had a server not come back up to full functionality because a network filesystem failed to mount for any reason?
Rather than waste the time to fix these things when they happen, a simple reboot while the machine is already within its scheduled downtime is much simpler to prevent this sort of thing and saves the company time, which to any large company quickly equates to money.
Your only real option is to get access to real x86 hardware, either by purchasing a junker Pentium box for $50 on eBay, or by getting a shell on a non-Mac-loving friend's machine. You will probably do better off having your own box, however, as it will give you direct access to video and other such things.
When one of my servers needs any new services installed or kernels patched, I actually schedule reboot testing. In fact essentially all of my reboots are due to this testing. It does cut into uptime but it means that when I need it, it will be up.
Doesn't everyone do this? Are people really so adamant about having that stupid 300 day uptime that they don't bother doing any testing?
I found the secret long ago that to maintain maximum customer-facing uptime, you never have a single server perform any task. Instead, you use multiple load-balanced servers, with enough redundancy and survivability to handle one server going down for a scheduled reboot. Th euptime on the individual servers becomes nearly meaningless, as the service uptime is what is really important.
I agree with you that Windows is the best platform for playing Windows games, but your comment that Cedega will always perform slower is just dead wrong. There are already many tasks where Cedega is faster than native Windows. Think of it like saying that GTK is slower than X libraries because GTK has to imitate the X environment. It simply is not true. All the Cedega (or WINE) need to do is provide the proper interfaces. The underlying code is different, so its speed is dependent on how well it is optimized and written.
You know, I am one of the Games developers for Gentoo, and I can tell you that we aren't anything special when it comes to non-native gaming. We might do a little better on the open source games than most people, but when it comes to commercial games, it really is all the same. Either cedega or WINE is really doing the work, if you're playing Windows games.
You are correct. We shouldn't waste our time trying to make everything the same. However, a lot of work has been put into having the same interfaces across the different desktops. Check out freedesktop.org for more information. It really does make sense to at least have standards between the interfaces, but one of the primary drawing points of Linux (at least as I see it) is the flexibility and choices available.
It takes a bit of time, and could use some better docs, though.
You're always free to submit some documentation changes to bugzilla and I'll gladly commit the changes. Most of the time, I'm a bit too busy actually adding features and fixing bugs on catalyst to be able to spend time on documentation. It doesn't help that John Davis (zhen) has been so busy with school, as he was not only the Release Engineering lead before me, but also our primary documentation producer.
Actually, the pre-2005.0 Gentoo LiveCD is just like Gentoo, provided you aren't talking about X (which not all Gentoo systems use).
While it does have limited functionality, it is still a true Gentoo system, built using the same methods one would use to build a Gentoo install. It starts from stage1 and builds through stage3, then adds additional packages and configuration, followed by a kernel and bootloader.
Umm... What in the world are you talking about?
Maybe you missed that Gentoo is, in fact, working on a Gentoo LiveCD that is a complete Gentoo environment?
Gentoo has nothing to do with being targeted for a specific machine, especially in regard to release media. In fact, the release media is quite generic. You are right about one thing, our main focus is flexibility and empowering the user to have a system how they want it.
Gentoo does not yet have a true LiveCD. This is made apparent by Release Engineering's decision to rename the release media to InstallCD to reduce confusion.
About the only thing they can't do is bring things back down from orbit.
This one is easy. Refit the shuttle to be remote controlled from the ground. The Soviets were able to do it with Buran, I'm sure we could do it ourselves, or even easier with the help of Energia.
I couldn't agree more. There are very few things that humans can do in space that cannot be done by a robot more efficiently and safer. However, the one thing that humans can give is their perception of what they see and feel. This sort of information is something that no robot can possibly provide us.
I completely agree that our goal should be to establish a permanent off-world presence. We honestly have no idea how much we would learn from being out exploring, but most of the advances of our race have come from exploring the unknown and taking risks.
Actually, I was curious because I would like to know how many cards ATI sells for Linux-based workstations, such as those used by Hollywood. We know that Nvidia caters to these people, and that they tend to buy Nvidia. Also, what about integrated chipset video? Are those numbers counted, too? What about Linux sales? I would love to know how many people are running Linux on Nvidia cards versus how many are running Linux on ATI. My whole point is that for any given demographic, the outcome may be completely different.
Re:Offline games require online reporting = BOGUS
on
Steam Users Steamed
·
· Score: 1
Nope... but you'd have to be *blind* to read Slashdot and have missed it.
Slashdot Mirror
This is something that really pisses me off. As a Gentoo developer and user, I can't stand seeing these fanboys spouting this utter crap.
Watching GCC output scroll by will not teach you a damn thing about Linux. Doing a stage1 installation teaches you exactly two things:
Nothing else.
Anyone who tells you otherwise is completely full of crap. Also, there is no difference in a system compiled from stage1, and a system built using a stage3 tarball and GRP, then customized and recompiled. The only difference is that I can get a system up and running in an hour or so (only because of the kernel compile) and then I can use my system while I recompile with my specified USE flags, while the "stage1 is so 1337" asshats are still staring at a console of scrolling text.
While I definitely think that the Gentoo community is one of its greatest assets, I also firmly believe that these vocal minority of fanboys are one of its greatest liabilities.
I really have to agree with you. There should be a paper trail on this sort of thing. If that is "taxing manpower" then I have to ask you, what the hell were you actually doing before?
I would love to see these white-collar criminals treating like the self-serving scum that they really are. Maybe we need to see a few of them get the business end of a night stick. Maybe we need to see them paraded out of their homes, which are promptly seized by the police, and into the back of squad cars with their crying, spoiled little wives screaming as they are taken away. I really cannot stand to see this sort of corruption go unpunished. These men and women are criminals, just like anyone who steals money via any other means. Why do we insist on treating them like they're VIP's?
Two words:
Ximian OpenOffice
Ximian already had a modifed version of OpenOffice 1.x to make it have a nice gtk+ interface instead. Why not do the same thing with OpenOffice 2.0?
Why would Apple design a 2 button mouse? Is that not insane? Wouldn't it make more sense to design at least a 3 button mouse with a wheel? What would really be gained by simply adding a second button?
Have you not figured this out yet?
For Arnold to become the president, an amendment would have to be ratified to the Constitution. This could be avoided pretty easily by invading and annexing Austria. Once Austria becomes a part of the United States, Arnold could become president, all without involving that whole changing the Constitution thing in the way.
Actually, one can simply edit the .pcf file from the Cisco VPN to keep it from breaking the local networking. There's an option in the file that disables the local LAN.
Wow. Thanks for the complete asinine response. Nobody said that you should reboot the server for every change. You did restart exim, right? Would that not be the testing required? Did you bother to check your runlevel to ensure the service is set to start on reboot?
I'm not confused, at all. I have enough sense to know that there are many more changes than a kernel update that can stop a system from booting. Filesystems that are supposed to mount at boot but were never added to fstab, or a broken init script can stop a server dead in its tracks. There's also the issue of upstream vendor patch sets that implement multiple patches simultaneously. In cases such as this it is infinitely easier and quicker to simply reboot the server than to stop and restart every affected service in the proper order. I have better things to do with my time than sit around babysitting a patch process that could be tested much quicker via a reboot. This is after running through the development environment, of course.
I am really starting to think that we are talking about completely different styles of systems management here. I am speaking of very large systems with expendable nodes. A system large enough that you expect failures on a daily basis. When you have more than a handful of servers performing the same function in a clustered environment, having one or two reboot is not only non-catastrophic, but expected to retain functionality in such a large mixed environment.
Have you ever had a server not come back up to full functionality because a network filesystem failed to mount for any reason?
Rather than waste the time to fix these things when they happen, a simple reboot while the machine is already within its scheduled downtime is much simpler to prevent this sort of thing and saves the company time, which to any large company quickly equates to money.
That's because Microsoft software is more secure than Linux. They were just waiting for the right time to release the patch, that's all. Yeah...
Your only real option is to get access to real x86 hardware, either by purchasing a junker Pentium box for $50 on eBay, or by getting a shell on a non-Mac-loving friend's machine. You will probably do better off having your own box, however, as it will give you direct access to video and other such things.
Doesn't everyone do this? Are people really so adamant about having that stupid 300 day uptime that they don't bother doing any testing?
I found the secret long ago that to maintain maximum customer-facing uptime, you never have a single server perform any task. Instead, you use multiple load-balanced servers, with enough redundancy and survivability to handle one server going down for a scheduled reboot. Th euptime on the individual servers becomes nearly meaningless, as the service uptime is what is really important.
I agree with you that Windows is the best platform for playing Windows games, but your comment that Cedega will always perform slower is just dead wrong. There are already many tasks where Cedega is faster than native Windows. Think of it like saying that GTK is slower than X libraries because GTK has to imitate the X environment. It simply is not true. All the Cedega (or WINE) need to do is provide the proper interfaces. The underlying code is different, so its speed is dependent on how well it is optimized and written.
Ugh...
You know, I am one of the Games developers for Gentoo, and I can tell you that we aren't anything special when it comes to non-native gaming. We might do a little better on the open source games than most people, but when it comes to commercial games, it really is all the same. Either cedega or WINE is really doing the work, if you're playing Windows games.
This wasn't even the first Gentoo X-based LiveCD for PPC. There was one back in June of 2003!
I would have had you covered until you said Debian-based... ;]
We are currently working on an X-based LiveCD, but I also plan on releasing a console-based LiveCD in the future for all of those console warriors.
You are correct. We shouldn't waste our time trying to make everything the same. However, a lot of work has been put into having the same interfaces across the different desktops. Check out freedesktop.org for more information. It really does make sense to at least have standards between the interfaces, but one of the primary drawing points of Linux (at least as I see it) is the flexibility and choices available.
You're always free to submit some documentation changes to bugzilla and I'll gladly commit the changes. Most of the time, I'm a bit too busy actually adding features and fixing bugs on catalyst to be able to spend time on documentation. It doesn't help that John Davis (zhen) has been so busy with school, as he was not only the Release Engineering lead before me, but also our primary documentation producer.
Actually, the pre-2005.0 Gentoo LiveCD is just like Gentoo, provided you aren't talking about X (which not all Gentoo systems use).
While it does have limited functionality, it is still a true Gentoo system, built using the same methods one would use to build a Gentoo install. It starts from stage1 and builds through stage3, then adds additional packages and configuration, followed by a kernel and bootloader.
Umm... What in the world are you talking about? Maybe you missed that Gentoo is, in fact, working on a Gentoo LiveCD that is a complete Gentoo environment? Gentoo has nothing to do with being targeted for a specific machine, especially in regard to release media. In fact, the release media is quite generic. You are right about one thing, our main focus is flexibility and empowering the user to have a system how they want it.
Gentoo does not yet have a true LiveCD. This is made apparent by Release Engineering's decision to rename the release media to InstallCD to reduce confusion.
This one is easy. Refit the shuttle to be remote controlled from the ground. The Soviets were able to do it with Buran, I'm sure we could do it ourselves, or even easier with the help of Energia.
I couldn't agree more. There are very few things that humans can do in space that cannot be done by a robot more efficiently and safer. However, the one thing that humans can give is their perception of what they see and feel. This sort of information is something that no robot can possibly provide us.
I completely agree that our goal should be to establish a permanent off-world presence. We honestly have no idea how much we would learn from being out exploring, but most of the advances of our race have come from exploring the unknown and taking risks.
Actually, I was curious because I would like to know how many cards ATI sells for Linux-based workstations, such as those used by Hollywood. We know that Nvidia caters to these people, and that they tend to buy Nvidia. Also, what about integrated chipset video? Are those numbers counted, too? What about Linux sales? I would love to know how many people are running Linux on Nvidia cards versus how many are running Linux on ATI. My whole point is that for any given demographic, the outcome may be completely different.
Nope... but you'd have to be *blind* to read Slashdot and have missed it.
Oh, I don't know. Perhaps it is his 7 blonde girlfriends?
I would love to see the market share numbers broken down into separate markets.
Who gets the market share in the high-end workstation market?
Macintosh market?
Linux market?