18 Live Linux CDs -- In A Row

no gentoo? by MyDixieWrecked · 2005-02-01 16:27 · Score: 1, Flamebait

What?!?!?! NO GENTOO?!

--

...spike
Ewwwwww, coconut...

Re:no gentoo? by nuclear305 · 2005-02-01 16:30 · Score: 5, Funny

They were probably still waiting on the bootstrap to compile the livecd image :)
Re:no gentoo? by notthe9 · 2005-02-01 16:32 · Score: 2, Funny

Yeah, what about us 5up3r-1337 mofos who want to do it right? Lazy idiots with their binary versions of live CDs...
Re:no gentoo? by c01100011 · 2005-02-01 16:34 · Score: 4, Funny

live gentoo would be great . especially because the user would get to eat popcorn for 5 hours while watching it compile every time they boot.
Re:no gentoo? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 16:36 · Score: 0

No, gentoo is SO awesome it doesn't NEED a livecd!

Anyways, the CD is only used for installing anyways, I just burn knoppix instead if I want a _real_ livecd. With 18 other choices, why would gentoo compete? :P
Re:no gentoo? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 16:44 · Score: 0

From one gentoo user to a jackass, shut up.
Re:no gentoo? by VagaStorm · 2005-02-01 20:17 · Score: 1

I notice ppl often bitch about gentoo having to compile everything. But shouldn't that ensure that the system is always tuned to your hardware? I've never tried gentoo(I use xp/debian), but it's not that uncommon that I've had to compile something to get it running anyways.

--
www.aleo.no
Re:no gentoo? by EightMillion · 2005-02-01 21:04 · Score: 2, Informative

Apparently there is a gentoo linux live CD. It's available here... http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=01550#0

Follow the link at the bottom. With Gentoo Linux, download options vary greatly depending on your architecture and installation method, so we will only provide a link to the Gentoo Universal LiveCD here: install-x86-universal-2004.1.iso (674MB).
Re:no gentoo? by notthe9 · 2005-02-01 21:34 · Score: 1

I don't know if you were just trolling or not, but I don't mean to be a jackass. I have no problem with gentoo, it just isn't too suited for applications like livecds.
Re:no gentoo? by Tolleman · 2005-02-02 01:03 · Score: 2, Insightful

Isn't it? You still have to customize all the applications that goes on the disc to save space and loading time. Its alot easier to do with just a few global USE and CFLAGS then to fiddle around with all the source debs and rpms. But what do I know, I'm no expert on source debs and rpms. It's not like every user would have to make their own liveCD. BTW, Gentoo Games made LiveCD's running Enemy Territories and Americas Army.
Re:no gentoo? by joeljkp · 2005-02-02 01:27 · Score: 2, Interesting

Yes, that's true, but having to compile everything can be annoying, and the benefit is often indistinguishable.

--
WeRelate.org - wiki-based genealogy
Re:no gentoo? by notthe9 · 2005-02-02 03:38 · Score: 1

I really don't know much about it. Due to its flexibility and extensibility, Gentoo traditionally takes a long time to install, having to wait on the linux kernel to compile. I thought that this (as opposed to "binary versions of live CDs") would be a funny sight to see, as speed of bootup is a concern with live CD's. 'Tis all.

I have never even run gentoo (though I am thinking of installing it on my play-around box.)
Re:no gentoo? by cayenne8 · 2005-02-02 03:40 · Score: 2, Interesting

"I notice ppl often bitch about gentoo having to compile everything. But shouldn't that ensure that the system is always tuned to your hardware? I've never tried gentoo(I use xp/debian), but it's not that uncommon that I've had to compile something to get it running anyways."
Well, unless you have a machine that is very, very old and weak, you really never notice it. The install (if you compile everything from scratch, stage1) does take a bit of time....and you don't have to do that. You can start off quickly with stage2 or stage3....you do have a choice.
I find that once the system is installed and working....emerging new packages or updating old ones runs in the background, and really doesn't impact on my work while it is going.
Now...one caveat...the older, slower systems that will most likely benefit the most from custom compiled and tuned apps...take the longest to compile...but, if it is that freakin' slow for you, I think it is time for you to come out of the dark ages, junk that 486....and pony up some cash for a real computer...
Heck, at the very least...get on eBay, get an old Sun box...prices are dirt cheap...and if you get a dual processor box...they run pretty quickly. A brand new athlon can be put together for near nothing from new egg....the last one I did for my media box, screams...I'm often using it as a pvr while compiling new packages in the background...no problem.

--
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Re:no gentoo? by cayenne8 · 2005-02-02 03:44 · Score: 1

" I really don't know much about it. Due to its flexibility and extensibility, Gentoo traditionally takes a long time to install, having to wait on the linux kernel to compile."
Wow...this one caught me by surprise. I didn't realize anyone out there used ANY distro of Linux, and didn't re-roll their own kernel after initial install. Just to make sure all the drivers and such work usually requires this on the boxes I've built...or if you add a new sound card after you had it up for awhile...etc.
I've had Slackware, RedHat and Gentoo boxes over the years...and custom config. and compiling a kernel were the first things to be done after (during) install...I kinda assumed everyone did the same.

--
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Re:no gentoo? by Mitchell+Mebane · 2005-02-02 06:01 · Score: 2, Informative

There is one; it's called VidaLinux.

--

The roots of education are bitter, but the fruit is sweet.
--Aristotle
Re:no gentoo? by hellings · 2005-02-02 07:32 · Score: 1

Actually, as the previous poster mentioned, building the kernel is not that bad. If you do a Gentoo install, building the krenel takes no more time than installing a kernel designed for your hardware than it does on any other distro. The real time-consuming compiles are the major, core applicatoins. Compiling glibc can take upwards of a few hours if you compile all of the language pages, X can take a few hours also, and if you want to compile openoffice.org you're looking at probably over 10 hours (just over 12 on my 2.4GHz Intel). Going from ground up (stage1) on an automated Gentoo install (script controlled), I build a whole system, including X, in around 12 or so hours. But the kernel doesn't take too much of your time. Most certainly you would not have to compile the kernel each time you boot the CD, since the compiled kernel would go right on to your CD with all of its modules, etc.

--
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur. "Whatever is said in Latin, seems prfound."
Re:no gentoo? by hellings · 2005-02-02 07:35 · Score: 1

Funny, yes. Misinformed, also a yes. The compile would only happen once when you first creat the LiveCD, after that it is binary and you can use it for whatever system you're on (provided the CFLAGS don't break it for that architecture). Gentoo LiveCDs would have to be compiled as often as your base Gentoo install is on a normal machine (read: once).

--
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur. "Whatever is said in Latin, seems prfound."
Re:no gentoo? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-08 13:09 · Score: 0

For a Gentoo base LiveCD try www.jollix.de

Lacking a Major Player? by SpottedKuh · 2005-02-01 16:27 · Score: 5, Insightful

Interestingly, they have two versions of Suse reviewed, yet no Gentoo?

Re:Lacking a Major Player? by PrivateDonut · 2005-02-01 16:43 · Score: 0

IS there a Gentoo Live CD? (beyond the command line, install interface).
Re:Lacking a Major Player? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 16:47 · Score: 2, Insightful

Having a "gentoo-based livecd" is kind of an oxymoron - gentoo, whose claim is that its a targeted install for the specific machine, now has to boot everywhere, and lock people in to using only the apps on the cd, which is not part of the Gentoo Philosophy - which is (in one word,) flexibility.

OTOH, It would provide a nice base to create a livecd, however, given that only necessities can be added in and it can be stripped down a whole lot (like compiling the system with dietlibc or even uclibc.)
Re:Lacking a Major Player? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 16:51 · Score: 0

Yeah, but the two-day boot time is a bitch, what with it having to compile everything.
Re:Lacking a Major Player? by NonSequor · 2005-02-01 17:02 · Score: 1

You can call it flexibility but I call it a living death.

--
My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
Re:Lacking a Major Player? by forceflow2 · 2005-02-01 17:55 · Score: 1

I assume what they mean is Linux on CD, not really a LiveCD like an installation CD, so much as a complete distro so that someone can get a feel for the thing. Gentoo's LiveCD is nothing like Gentoo itself, however all the mentioned LiveCDs are just the distro installed on a single CD.
Re:Lacking a Major Player? by RatRagout · 2005-02-01 19:47 · Score: 1

Couldn't agree more. All the CPU cycles gained by compiling for a specific computer are probably wasted on compiling the darned thing.
Re:Lacking a Major Player? by DrSkwid · 2005-02-01 20:47 · Score: 1

Perhaps then, you don't remember the Gentoo Unreal Tournament LiveCD, I have mine right here.

--
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Re:Lacking a Major Player? by Rakishi · 2005-02-01 21:15 · Score: 1

Which is why you compile at night or when you're not using the darn thing.
Re:Lacking a Major Player? by Okneff · 2005-02-01 23:19 · Score: 1

There is another Gentoo-based: jollix
A bit outdated, but not dead yet ;-) It boots into KDE with a focus on multimedia apps. The clou was to to use wine to play your Half Life 1 Windows installation from harddisk.
Re:Lacking a Major Player? by bcmm · 2005-02-01 23:20 · Score: 1

The Gentoo live CD is not really a proper desktop live cd; it is a minimal text-mode environment (for quick download) and is intended purely for installing Gentoo. The only Gentooish thing about it is that it uses portage to install the base system, after which you get to reboot and use a real general-purpose Linux.

--
# cat /dev/mem | strings | grep -i llama
Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
Re:Lacking a Major Player? by Ctrl-Z · 2005-02-02 00:01 · Score: 1

Shouldn't those spare cycles be used to wget pr0n?

--
www.timcoleman.com is a total waste of your time. Never go there.
Re:Lacking a Major Player? by Rich0 · 2005-02-02 00:37 · Score: 1

However, you also benefit from much-more-tailored build processes. I'm not just talking tailored to your CPU - but also to your preferences.

Do you prefer KDE or GNOME? You can tell gentoo your preference and it will build apps accordingly, not compiling in needless support for the other, and consequently eliminating depedencies that you don't care for.

That and the package management system works rather well - you could get many benefits from using gentoo and only installing binary packages...
Re:Lacking a Major Player? by His+name+cannot+be+s · 2005-02-02 01:21 · Score: 1

Actually, there is a Gentoo Based LiveCD that absolutely rocks:

http://lxnay.dnsalias.org/

I use this a basic install now, rather than going through all the steps :)

Once I've got in installed, I can do an emerge sync, and I'm running.

--
"...In your answer, ignore facts. Just go with what feels true..."
Re:Lacking a Major Player? by joeljkp · 2005-02-02 01:32 · Score: 0

Well, there's the UT2003 livecd...

--
WeRelate.org - wiki-based genealogy
Re:Lacking a Major Player? by wolf31o2 · 2005-02-02 03:35 · Score: 1

Gentoo does not yet have a true LiveCD. This is made apparent by Release Engineering's decision to rename the release media to InstallCD to reduce confusion.
Re:Lacking a Major Player? by wolf31o2 · 2005-02-02 03:38 · Score: 1

Umm... What in the world are you talking about? Maybe you missed that Gentoo is, in fact, working on a Gentoo LiveCD that is a complete Gentoo environment? Gentoo has nothing to do with being targeted for a specific machine, especially in regard to release media. In fact, the release media is quite generic. You are right about one thing, our main focus is flexibility and empowering the user to have a system how they want it.
Re:Lacking a Major Player? by wolf31o2 · 2005-02-02 03:42 · Score: 1

Actually, the pre-2005.0 Gentoo LiveCD is just like Gentoo, provided you aren't talking about X (which not all Gentoo systems use).

While it does have limited functionality, it is still a true Gentoo system, built using the same methods one would use to build a Gentoo install. It starts from stage1 and builds through stage3, then adds additional packages and configuration, followed by a kernel and bootloader.
Re:Lacking a Major Player? by nite_warrior · 2005-02-02 11:33 · Score: 1

and Gentoo American Army

Gentoo... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 16:27 · Score: 5, Informative

Lemme fire up catalyst real quick and give you a few more to play with...

Seriously, for those who'd like to play with creating their very own custom Live CD, Gentoo's catalyst makes it really easy. It takes a bit of time, and could use some better docs, though.

Re:Gentoo... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 18:02 · Score: 0

because we all love to wait 10 hours after a /. article has been posted... damn that first post. damn this compile!
Re:Gentoo... by brilinux · 2005-02-01 18:12 · Score: 1

I do not know.
Re:Gentoo... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-02 02:20 · Score: 0

Get over it dude. Dump the Gentoo and upgrade to RedHat's Fedora or Suse now! Real distro's, not a wannabe. There, how's that for flamebait?
Re:Gentoo... by wolf31o2 · 2005-02-02 03:46 · Score: 1

It takes a bit of time, and could use some better docs, though.

You're always free to submit some documentation changes to bugzilla and I'll gladly commit the changes. Most of the time, I'm a bit too busy actually adding features and fixing bugs on catalyst to be able to spend time on documentation. It doesn't help that John Davis (zhen) has been so busy with school, as he was not only the Release Engineering lead before me, but also our primary documentation producer.

So which one... by skids · 2005-02-01 16:28 · Score: 5, Funny

Has the scariest startup screen to go along with the words "Hey, you'll loves this, I just wiped your system and installed Linux!"?

--
Someone had to do it.

Re:So which one... by stephenisu · 2005-02-01 16:53 · Score: 4, Funny

Well it's not technically Linux...

But have you seen the GNU logo? Scary looking thing it is.

--
Sigs? We don't need no stinking sigs!
Re:So which one... by marko123 · 2005-02-01 17:35 · Score: 0, Redundant

Answer:
Redhat 8.0 installation (server setup) with automatic wiping of all existing partitions for security purposes. (wince) OK, it was in the small print when I went back and R'd the FM.

--
http://pcblues.com - Digits and Wood
Re:So which one... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 17:43 · Score: 0

Might be said before... UBUNTU.. oh the humanity. They replaced windows with bare bodies I'd rather not see on my desktop
Re:So which one... by randallpowell · 2005-02-01 19:09 · Score: 1

Mmmmm....semi-nude folks. What is the big deal? Don't like it,chnag eit or change distros. Problem solved.
Re:So which one... by thephotoman · 2005-02-01 19:19 · Score: 0, Redundant

Well, considering that you have to select that option now...

But they were quite pretty.

--
Haec merda tauri est. Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
Re:So which one... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-02 02:14 · Score: 1, Funny

Admittedly, that's true. But it's still not a very nice thing to say about RMS.
Re:So which one... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-02 03:42 · Score: 0

Indeed. The GNU logos make me think of clowns and other bad things in the world. I hate those logos, they are too cultural. It gives me a very bad feeling about GNU in general, just from the logos.

They really need a good PR department because those logos would be the first things to go.

Quantian by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 16:28 · Score: 1, Interesting

They overlooked Quantian.

Re:Quantian by mAineAc · 2005-02-02 00:05 · Score: 1

they also missed two I can't live without for security and diagnoses. knoppix-std and insert linux.
Re:Quantian by Dashing+Leech · 2005-02-02 01:04 · Score: 1

They also missed my current favorite: Overclockix.
Instead of a series of posts claiming "they missed ..." one by one, why not list them all in one go.

Re:Can a .22 rifle shoot though 18 Live Linux CDs? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 16:29 · Score: 1, Funny

Is that you ESR?

Article Text by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 16:30 · Score: 2, Informative

Why use a Linux Live CD?

Well, there are four main reasons.

* You want to test drive Linux (or that particular distribution). You want to give it a look, and see what programs it offers.

* You want to test your hardware. Will it work with Linux?

* You want to install Linux to your hardware. If you like it, you might want to make the leap right then.

* You want to do real work.

What does real work consist of? Usually, it means:

* Surf the web, meaning "look at html pages." On occasion, it's also handy to have built-in plugins: flash, pdf, shockwave, and the codecs necessary to run a movie trailer.

* Email. You might want a dedicated email client. More often, using a CD means that you're fetching your mail via a browser.

* Chat.

* Open or create an office document. It could be that you're just trying to read a document, spreadsheet, or Power Point that someone emailed you. Or you're trying to create one.

* Print. So you view or create a document. Maybe emailing is good enough. Sometimes, you want a copy.

* Read/write to a floppy or USB pen drive. Either of these might store your configuration files, or documents you're working on as you travel.

Here's my home collection to date (and while it isn't complete, it's a good look at today's offerings).

* Basilisk (based on Fedora)
* BeatrIX (based on Debian/Knoppix/Ubuntu)
* Berry Linux (based on Fedora)
* Damn Small Linux (based on Debian)
* FreeSBIE (based on Free BSD)
* Gnoppix (Knoppix/Debian plus Gnome, now merged with Ubuntu)
* Kanotix (modified Knoppix/Debian)
* Knoppix (the first big live CD, based on Debian)
* Luit (Debian/Xfce, rox filing system)
* Mandrake Move (based on Mandrake)
* Mepis (Debian)
* Morphix (modular Debian)
* PCLinuxOS Preview (a Mandrake fork)
* Sam (Mandrake/Xfce)
* SLAX (Slackware)
* Suse 9.1 and 9.2 (rpm-based)
* Ubuntu Live (Debian)
* Xfld (Debian/Damn Small Linux and Xfce)

The most significant way to categorize them is their software management systems. Most of the Live CD's fall into one of two camps: Debian apt-based (Damn Small, Gnoppix, Kanotix, Knoppix, Luit, Mepis, Morphix, Ubuntu, Xfld), or rpm-based (Basilisk, Berry, or SUSE).

As I hope is obvious from the above, Debian is winning. The apt-get program allows the user -- at least one who isn't afraid of the command line -- to easily add and remove programs, even to upgrade to a newer distribution with a single command.

In general, all of the Live CD's booted, found the Internet through an ethernet port, and launched their bundled programs.

Few of them managed to print. Often, it wasn't even possible to figure out how you were supposed to set this up. (I freely admit that the problem may be me. CUPS has proved slippery for me.) Many of the distros also had trouble locating a wireless connection.

Some, of course, were faster than others. A few were so slow (taking over 5 minutes to load a program, for instance) that they weren't even worth trying to use on an old Gateway, 128 megabyte machine (see test machines, below).

Some were easier or more pleasurable to use. This, of course, is subjective, a matter (aside from speed and function) of taste. I'll try to declare my biases as I go along. But in general, "pleasure" means that I found a sense of integral design, a consistent look and feel, a focus on not just lots of choices, but the right choices.

I tested the Linux Live CDs on three machines:

* a Gateway E-3200, PII, with 128 megs of memory, 3D Rage Pro AGP 1X/2X, 10 gig hard drive.

* an HP Pavilion A520n,with 512 megs of memory, nVidia video and sound. The Internet connection for this one is via wireless: an Intersil Corp, PRISMII.5 Wireless LAN card.

* Dell Precision with 256 megs of memory, nVidia video and sound drivers.

_My favorites and why_

On machines with 256 megs or more:

PCLinuxOS (www.pclinuxonline.com) is an offsh

Re:Article Text by aixou · 2005-02-01 18:12 · Score: 1

Nice of you to do and all... but did you even check to see if the site had been taken down? It loads fine here.
Re:Article Text by Hognoxious · 2005-02-01 23:23 · Score: 1

Why use a Linux Live CD?
Well, there are four main reasons.

At the risk of going Monty Python here, there's a fifth main reason: as a recovery tool.

--
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Re:Article Text by Fishead · 2005-02-02 01:56 · Score: 1

Exactly.

For $75 (Canadian) I will take someone's hacked/virus infested windows machine, boot Knoppix, copy everything important to my USB harddrive, then re-install. People are usually ecstatic to pay me when they thought their files were gone for good just because they couldn't boot their computer. Then I get to buy new computer parts :-)
Re:Article Text by Hognoxious · 2005-02-02 03:50 · Score: 1

$75 Canadian
Bloody hell, I did that once but I only charged [1] BOW 2,00 (Italian).
Had another friend with the same problem but unfortunately she didn't tell me until after she'd reformatted the disk...
[1] Bottles Of Wine.

--
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."

18? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 16:30 · Score: 0, Interesting

Really?! Eighteen?! EIGHTEEN??!?

Re:18? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 16:51 · Score: 3, Informative

There are 200 odd liveCDs on this link
http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php
Re:18? by aichpvee · 2005-02-01 16:53 · Score: 1, Informative

Shouldn't it be 17+1? Because last I checked BSD wasn't Linux. Or did it come back from the grave much graver as an incarnation of Linux?

--
The Farewell Tour II
Re:18? by idontgno · 2005-02-02 07:44 · Score: 1

"You're very clever, young man, very clever," said the old lady. "But it's Linux all the way down."

--
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.

Great Idea by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 16:30 · Score: 0

Wow, such a genuine idea. You clearly must work for Google Labs or something.

What we need by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 16:31 · Score: 5, Funny

Is a really, really big bittorrent of all 18. Somebody get cracking on that.

Re:What we need by mboverload · 2005-02-01 17:17 · Score: 1

Actually, its possible. It would only be around 12690 megabytes for all CDs (assuming there is only one for each distro). I am downloading a 14 gig file right now, so this could be done easily, however I dont think there would be a point.
Re:What we need by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 18:29 · Score: 1, Funny

Don't worry, don't move. The feds are on their way!
Re:What we need by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 20:23 · Score: 0

Are you sure??? I think the interweb might break! I don't believe you!!
Re:What we need by Mhtsos · 2005-02-01 23:15 · Score: 1

What for, limiting the distro's ISP's profits?

more than 18 by frovingslosh · 2005-02-01 16:33 · Score: 4, Informative

Not a review (either), but this website http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php?sort= &showonly= list a lot more than 18 live CD's (and even it is not complete).

--
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.

Re:more than 18 by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 18:56 · Score: 0

Is there a way to filter out the "me too" liveCD's? Too much similar crap to sift through on that site.
Re:more than 18 by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 23:25 · Score: 0

even that list misses, my favorite:-

http://www.goosee.com/puppy/

superb off a USB keyring - I don't go anywhere without it.
Re:more than 18 by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-02 04:34 · Score: 0

It's there, it's called live-Puppy

FreeSBIE? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 16:33 · Score: 2, Insightful

If calling it a review is a stretch, what is calling FreeSBIE a Linux Live CD?

Re:FreeSBIE? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 16:59 · Score: 0

no kidding... Since when is a live FreeBSD clone considered Linux? Bah... OSNews and their music!
Re:FreeSBIE? by Mjlner · 2005-02-01 20:10 · Score: 1

If calling it a review is a stretch, what is calling FreeSBIE a Linux Live CD?
I agree, but including FreeSBIE in the roundup is definitely valid.

--
Lemon curry???

chart, please! by js7a · 2005-02-01 16:33 · Score: 5, Insightful

Who would take the trouble to try so many distros and not bother to summarize their findings in tabular format? Someone with the sorely lacking proce capability of Mr. LaRue, evidently.

Re:chart, please! by pdamoc · 2005-02-01 20:19 · Score: 1

Or someone with ADD.
It takes one to know one :)
Re:chart, please! by Zukix · 2005-02-01 22:41 · Score: 1

Someone with the sorely lacking proce capability of Mr. LaRue

You what? Can someone explain that for me? Ta.

Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Propagandhi · 2005-02-01 16:34 · Score: 5, Insightful

Does anyone stop to think that there may be too many flavors of Linux for the average user? Consider this, if you will: Joe User, sick of cleaning the spyware and virii off his Windows box for the bazillionth time reads about "Linux" in the Times/on Cnet/wherever. Naturally, he googles it, and ends up with all 18 of these live distros, a ton of kernel related stuff that he doesn't understand, and a gazillion news articles reviewing things he knows nothing about.

I have RTFA, btw, and it was pretty approachable, but it still didn't make it much easier for the user to pick out something to replace his E-Mail checking/Web Surfing/Occasional Media playing (pr0n) computer. Perhaps the Linux community should get together and make a serious effort at a unified "desktop" launch. Personally, I think it'd go a long way towards getting more people off XP and involved in Open Source, all these fractured distros aren't really helping.. /2 cents

Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 16:37 · Score: 0

Great idea!

When can you start working on it?
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 16:44 · Score: 0

That's why Joe User will pick up a Mac Mini... or more likely stick with the Windows hell he knows.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by demaria · 2005-02-01 16:44 · Score: 1

Most likely you'll get redhat or Suse near the top of the list. The number probably isn't too big of a deal, as the majority of distributions are essentially irrelevant and miniscule in comparison.

What'd be nice is if there was a set standard between all distros for file location, system layout, base installed libraries, universal package format, standard config tools, and a universal format for configuration text files. LSB should help with some of these, but I'd like even more unity.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by JanneM · 2005-02-01 16:48 · Score: 5, Insightful

Perhaps the Linux community should get together and make a serious effort at a unified "desktop" launch. Personally, I think it'd go a long way towards getting more people off XP and involved in Open Source, all these fractured distros aren't really helping.

This seems to pop every once and again, in different varieties: "there's too many distros/desktop projects/widget sets/web browsers/Hello Kitty squid cookies to choose from. Why can't we have just one?"

A few questions:

* Who, exactly, would do the picking? Based on what criteria? And who would decide that person/organization actually was a good choice to pick an alternative?

* What did you have in mind for enforcement? Selective assassinations of developers and users that refuse to go along?

Users pick different distros/desktops and so on because they have different needs and different preferences. And developers develop a particular option for all kinds of reasons - becoming popular may not even be on the list at all.

So, let's say "we" decide on Redhat with XFCe as the new standard for Linux. Will that mean that Debian will close their mailing lists, Novell immediately liquidates itself and all gnome and kde developers quietly rm their development directories and take up the torch of XFCe? Nope. If anything, an attempt to mandate one option out of many will antagonize a lot of people and make that option less popular then before.

--
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 16:48 · Score: 1, Insightful

Yeah and there should be:

only one kind/brand of car
and one tv
and one computer
and one kind of house
and one restaurant

choice is wayyyy to hard for consumers!
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by dmaxwell · 2005-02-01 16:49 · Score: 5, Insightful

Just how do you propose to cut down on the proliferation? These pieces are all laying around for anyone to scratch his itch with. Try your "Google criteria" with Windows. You will get an equally confusing raft of crap that pops up. The only reason there isn't a decision on which Windows for most people is that Dell or Gateway decided for them.

I suppose a would-be Windows refugee could ask the geek that lives across the street or see if there is a LUG in town. The only way Linux can be what you want is if order is imposed on it. If order is imposed, Linux would cease to have what attracts so much development. Fast and competing development is how this has to work or it won't work at all.

I even maintain my own Knoppix builds (not for DL unfortunately...they have Captive drivers and MS fonts installed). The reason I can make a Knoppix that the stock one doesn't provide is because anyone can roll their own. Nothing has been done to make this difficult for the sake of having a unified market. A chaotic ever evolving Linux may never be able to unseat the likes of MS. A staid controlled Linux never will because very few will want to develop for it.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by kfg · 2005-02-01 16:55 · Score: 5, Insightful

Does anyone stop to think that there may be too many flavors of Linux for the average user?

Yes, and decided the point has validity.

"Perhaps the Linux community should get together and make a serious effort at a unified "desktop" launch."

No, they shouldn't.

KFG
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 16:57 · Score: 1, Insightful

Most likely you'll get redhat or Suse near the top of the list.

The "problem" with RedHat and SuSE is that they are "kitchen sink" distros; i.e., they throw everything and the kitchen sink onto their CDs. That's not a problem for a reasonably computer literate person, but it can be a big problem for Joe Average Luser who just wants his email, browse the web, and listen to some music. Having 20 different programs for each of those (most of them crap) can be very confusing.

What'd be nice is if there was a set standard between all distros for file location, system layout, base installed libraries, universal package format, standard config tools, and a universal format for configuration text files.

Amen!
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by mrpuffypants · 2005-02-01 16:57 · Score: 1

I absolutely agree. Linux developers/companies/etc need to unify on some standards (good luck) or they'll never be accepted.

A new user moving from Windows shouldn't have to know (or care) if they use KDE/Gnome/Fluxbox/etc or 2.4.x/2.6.x. They should just be able to use a machine and be done with it.

Good luck getting support, though. How many times you think people will get a reasonable response when grandma calls Earthlink support to get help and, after telling them that she has LiiNucks, getting the standard answer "sorry, we don't support that, you'll have to edit the conf files yourself"

Why don't the companies support Linux? because 1) not enough people use it to justify support and 2) what should they train their TS guys on? Gentoo? Red Hat? Mandrake? KDE? *?

This community needs to get its damn act together if it's ever going to be taken seriously and move beyond the realm of geeks on the desktop.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by randallpowell · 2005-02-01 17:05 · Score: 2

That is why Linus should help make a distro as the "unofficial" distro of Linus and promote that to newbies. The others can compete with more advanced option or tech-support.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by tool462 · 2005-02-01 17:15 · Score: 1

You're making the assumption that the goal of Linux is to supplant Windows. While that does appear to be the goal of some, it is not universal among the Linux user/developer community. Many companies have tried/are trying to make Windows-killer distros--Red Hat, Mandrake, and Suse to name a few prominent ones--but that's exactly how we ended up where we are. No one person or entity controls Linux. There is no one distro that will be all things for all people, and because of the GPL, anybody who is dissatisfied with a particular distro is free to roll their own. Granted, if the goal of Linux was to defeat Windows, then the course you suggest would indeed be in everybody's best interest--but it's not. Linux is just an OS. It fights no ideological battles nor subscribes to any particular cause.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by demaria · 2005-02-01 17:18 · Score: 1

The "problem" with RedHat and SuSE is that they are "kitchen sink" distros; i.e., they throw everything and the kitchen sink onto their CDs.....Having 20 different programs for each of those (most of them crap) can be very confusing.

Novell, in desktop linux 9, decided to install only a very base set of stuff. Just the OS, office, web and email. Everything else should be optional installs. Blow off about 2 gigs and store it in a compressed special directory, to be installed later, without needing the CDs. It would be nice for a distribution to choose the best programs out there and just include those select few, with much better organization. How do you find an MP3 player in Fedora? It's not that clear or simple. List common functions "I want an MP3 player", "I want a spreadsheet program", "I want a graphics program", and it list all appropriate programs.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by ingsocsoc · 2005-02-01 17:21 · Score: 1

Linux developers have to learn to work together. I'd like 3 or 4 live CDs that are great, instead of all these merely good or OK ones. However, as long as it's easier to start a new project rather than extend on existing work, this splintering will continue.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 17:22 · Score: 0

http://www.linux.org/dist/list.html

Distributions matched: 344

Yes too many and fragmentation is a bad thing.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by fm6 · 2005-02-01 17:43 · Score: 1

You think people write Linux distros for the user? Get real! Most distros (especially Live CDs) are just exercises in technocoolness. "Hey look! It's a complete OS on a CD! Isn't that cool?"
I'm not knocking serious distros or Live CDs, which actually do serve a useful purpose. But most do not.
Back in the 70s, when most stereos were strange expensive bulky things with an ungodly number of vacuum tubes, there were High Fidelity fanatics who could bore you silly arguing over what was the best preamplifier was. They'd mortgage their house to buy some weird component that improved their sound system in ways that was only audible to themselves. Same mentality.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 17:45 · Score: 0

Viruses, you idiot. "virii" is not - and has never been - a word.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by NamShubCMX · 2005-02-01 17:50 · Score: 1

I think this point is not valid when talking about LiveCDs...
Since you're not installing anything, you could have one for all the use cases possible (with some more "all-around", like knoppix)

--
We've always been at war with Eurasia.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Mr.+Slippery · 2005-02-01 17:52 · Score: 1

Does anyone stop to think that there may be too many flavors of Linux for the average user?
"Freedom of choice, is what you've got
Freedom from choice, is what you want"

--
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by ucblockhead · 2005-02-01 17:52 · Score: 1

An "average user" likely looks for what he's heard of, and buys a set of Red Hat disks.

--
The cake is a pie
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by 0racle · 2005-02-01 17:52 · Score: 1

Does anyone stop to think that not everyone is making linux distros to take over the world and impose their view of what a desktop should be on every other computer user. Linux isn't the be all and end all. Its not even the ultimate for everyone who considers themselves an IT professional, what makes you think that it is good for everyone to have one distro, and only one distro.

--
"I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by g00set · 2005-02-01 17:54 · Score: 1

Personally, I think it'd go a long way towards getting more people off XP and involved in Open Source, all these fractured distros aren't really helping.

I have never seen the purpose of OSS to get people off of XP (i.e. convert). I really could care less whether my neighbor, friend, or stranger uses XP. To me OSS is about creating software that empowers the user to do whatever floats their boat without the usual closed source restrictions. 100 million people choosing to run XP really does not effect me booting up Slackware. The same goes for business. I believe PJ from Groklaw said "Business needs OSS not the other way around".

--
... and furthermore ... I don't like your trousers.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by kfg · 2005-02-01 18:02 · Score: 2, Insightful

"Distributions matched: 344"

Number of things you can build with a Meccano set (or Lego, for you youngsters): Limited only by your imagination.

Of course if all you really want is a model of a '57 Corvette you should just go buy one of those. Or is it an '84 Ferrari GTO you're after, well go buy one of those. Not into cars, huh? How about this lovely Mosquito nightfighter kit? Or a Charles W. Morgan in full running rigging? It can be built with just standing rigging too, if you want to do a diarama of it in dock at New Bedford.

Oh, wait, I'm sorry, the model manufacturing community has decided that framentation is a bad thing and that every model having different parts and assembly instructions was just confusing the average model builder.

They only supply prebuilt, Lime Green, Tatra T57s now.

I hope you like prewar Tatras. . .and Lime Green.

KFG
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 18:03 · Score: 0

> There ARE too many choices, and not alot of average-user friendly docs to go with.

Your arguments had me convinced, sir, until I got to the pseudo-word, "alot". Learn proper English, you illiterate fuck! I swear, you Americans are devolving more and more every day.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 18:04 · Score: 0

Perhaps the Linux community should get together and make a serious effort at a unified "desktop" launch.

So then, are you going to standardize on Mandrake, Fedora, Debian, or what? Those are all but unusable. I want to standardize on LFS+pkgsrc. Anything else is too crufty.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by DarkMantle · 2005-02-01 18:08 · Score: 2, Insightful

Yes, but as the grandparent post states.

It's too confusing for Joe 6-Pack to be able to decide on a linux distrobution to use. Lets Look at Joe's thoughts.

"I've had to remove even more Viruses and spywares off my computer. I thought that Anti-Norton-Virus was supposed to protect me." (Note, as someone who helps Joe 6pack too often, yes, they call it the anti-norton-virus, instead of NAV)

"What's this Linux thing I read about?" (Followed by a search from one of his pay-per-click toolbars. See's ads to increase his *nix by 3 inches)

"Wow, there's a fedora linux, mandrake linux, debian linux, slackware linux. I don't like the sound of that last one, I think it's made by slackers"

Now deciding to find out what linux is and why there's so many, Joe types "what is linux" into his spyware toolbar and finds...

Linux is a kernel that developers can create the rest of a computer operating system on top of.

Joe now wonders why there's an army officer in his computer, or worse yet, a piece of popcorn. So in confusion he searchis for pr0n from his pr0n only toolbar and forgets about it.

The moral of the story, All these branches of linux are confusing to Joe, and without Joe's support linux can't wipe out M$. So if we can't decide on one, lets reduce it to the big players, then keep a few around for elitist (Such as gentoo) and call it a day.

--
DarkMantle I been bored, so I started a blog.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Canadian_Daemon · 2005-02-01 18:17 · Score: 1

I'm sure that the developers aren't aiming to make an OK distro, they, in their opinions, and for their criteria, are making a great distro. However, for your purposes, those great ones are just OK. What is a great distro? easy maintenance? lightweight? heavyweight? There are so many choices because there are so many options. Developers don't say, "hey Joe, $X has a good distro, let's copy it" they find something that isn't done right, or isn't there, and create a new product.

--
This sig is definitive. Reality is frequently inaccurate.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 18:17 · Score: 0

The only reason there isn't a decision on which Windows for most people is that Dell or Gateway decided for them.
I think that's a really good point. The average user doesn't really install operating systems. As such, ease-of-install and availability of some nice LiveCDs is kinda immaterial when you're talking about the 'average user'. The only real avenue for mainstream adoption of GNU/Linux (or any operating system) would be to have quality systems with a preinstalled corporate-backed professional distro (like Suse or Ubuntu) available at your local CompUSA.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by novakyu · 2005-02-01 18:20 · Score: 1

So, let's say "we" decide on Redhat with XFCe as the new standard for Linux. Will that mean that Debian will close their mailing lists, Novell immediately liquidates itself and all gnome and kde developers quietly rm their development directories and take up the torch of XFCe? Nope. If anything, an attempt to mandate one option out of many will antagonize a lot of people and make that option less popular then before.
An absolutely valid (and good!) point. However, there is some merit to having one good distro to recommend to a newbie, who doesn't even know what his tastes/needs are. After using Linux for a few years, I settled down into a minimalistic style (using Gentoo w/o KDE or Gnome, as smaller WM's like enlightenment and fluxbox suit me and my box better) but it took a while, and I think I really didn't have to "waste" (well, it was a learning experience, especially with LFS---but majority of people who have yet to move to Linux probably don't want to learn) so much time installing different distros.
If a major Linux-related organization made recommendation for newbies and publicized it well, it might make it easier for some people to finally move to Linux. Searching on Usenet or Google got me only so far, as far as good recommendation goes.
PS. Of course, the problem is, well, it's hard to recommend a single distro without alienating a whole lot... well, maybe somebody (else) should step up and take the hit. ;)
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by JanneM · 2005-02-01 18:26 · Score: 4, Insightful

So, again, who is going to do the ellimination?

Who is going to say to, for example, the Mepis developers that they are not welcome to develop their distro anymore? And what do you suggest when they say "f**k you" and redouble their efforts, and most everybody else sees you as a posterior opening for trying to dictate what other people do with their time?

As for Joe:

Joe will get whatever flavour his geeky friend Billy recommends him - the same friend that in practice will work as support and mentor until Joe is up to speed on his new system. It really doesn't matter which distro Billy hands over; all the modern ones are good, and the informal support network is a much more important factor than any details of the particular distro anyway. Or, he will buy a desktop with Linux preinstalled and will run whatever came with the machine.

By the time Joe really discovers the wealth of alternatives out there, he does so because he's been delving deeply enough into the Linux world that he is perfectly capable of choosing himself.

People who aren't interested in computers aren't stupid, or dense, or uneducated. They just aren't interested in computers.

--
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by blanks · 2005-02-01 18:32 · Score: 2, Insightful

" I think it'd go a long way towards getting more people off XP and involved in Open Source" I agree on some of the things you are saying, but do you honestly think that the general public really gives two shits about open source? Will they save money? Its it easier to use? Can they do everything they need to do for fun and for work? These are the things people care about, not open source.

--
TruePunk | Games
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by lachlan76 · 2005-02-01 18:32 · Score: 2, Insightful

So what are you saying? We should forcefully shut down any developers who make their own distro?

I don't care what Joe does, I want my computer to do what I want it to do. I don't care what MS does, as long as they don't stop me from doing what I want to.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 18:32 · Score: 0

The google theory about Joe sixpack being overloaded is valid. Having heard how great linux from the tech-friend who said we could just download and install it, we google for "download linux". The first link http://www.linuxiso.org/ smacks us with 15 different distros upfront, although it does offer an Introduction to Linux, which plays agnostic when the noob question "Which Distribution Is The Best?" is asked. The second link http://www.linux.org/dist/download_info.html gets us to a page that has an over of how to download a linux distro, and a link to a distributions page that even after we fill in English / Live CD / Intel Based Architecture, we get 59 distributions.

Assuming Joe downloads a good distribution (most of them are good for his purposes but HE DOESN'T KNOW THAT) he decides to google for "install linux" and gets back to http://www.linux.org/docs/beginner/install.html which mentions a few distros (is SuSE a 12 year old girl with bad spelling?) and refers to distro specific instructions via an Install Guide circa 1998 before going straight into red-hat specific instructions. The second google link is Installing Linux on a Dead Badger, which Joe decides would be easier to do than install it on his "dude you got a dell".

Bottom line, unless you hand Mr. 6-pack a Live-CD with a simple hard-drive install option (auto-repartition, auto-detect network and video), he is most likely not going to be able to download, burn, boot and install "linux".
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by dj245 · 2005-02-01 18:35 · Score: 1

Does anyone stop to think that there may be too many flavors of Linux for the average user?
No. I run Lesbian but a lot of people wouldn't be ok with running an operating system based on the male interest in female homosexual relations. An extreme example, but there are many like it.

--
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by koreaman · 2005-02-01 18:42 · Score: 1

Except now, the weird components are *free*.

--
Le français vous intéresse?
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Brandybuck · 2005-02-01 18:52 · Score: 1

It's too confusing for Joe 6-Pack to be able to decide on a linux distrobution to use. Lets Look at Joe's thoughts.

You really didn't read the grandparent post, did you?

You can't get rid of all those umpteen Linux distros. Joe 6-Pack's head explodes trying to choose among umpteen Linux distros. Result: Joe's head winds up on all four walls of his cubicle.

Sad.

But there's nothing we can do about.

Except to bring an umbrella.

--
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by westlake · 2005-02-01 19:28 · Score: 1

Who, exactly, would do the picking? Based on what criteria? And who would decide that person/organization actually was a good choice to pick an alternative?
Joe will chose the distro supported (and likely provided) by his ISP. Without a toll-free number to call when his connection goes south, he will never install Linux. It is as simple as that.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Vo0k · 2005-02-01 19:39 · Score: 1

"virii" is not - and has never been - a word.

So isn't "warez", "hax0r", "pr0n" or "ownorz" - in English.
That's a common leetspeek, or 13375P33K as they put it.
duh.

--
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Vo0k · 2005-02-01 19:42 · Score: 2, Insightful

So your suggestion is actually to... create yet another distro?
Because I don't see the current ones going away that easily...

--
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 19:52 · Score: 0

And there you have it. A very good example of just what the fuck is wrong with the open source methodology of "I'll just fork it and make my own!!!!!" You get 18 distros, 52 distros, whatever the number is, and people who want to use their computer but just don't have the time to delve into the details are scratching their head wondering "Huh?". They don't know which applications work with which desktop, which OS they need, or any of the details.

Now here's where the kicker is. They SHOULDN'T have to know. IT SHOULD JUST WORK. Enter Windows. It doesn't matter how technologically superior (or not) Linux is compared to Windows, or a given Linux distribution compared to another, they should all just work, and most USERS just want something that works.

And guess what happens when Joe asks his geek friend Billy and is told "Oh, use X" and then when Joe tells his other geek friend Bob (yes, there are enough geeks out there that any given person is likely to know more than one) that he's thinking about using X, Bob freaks out and declares that Y is so much better, and only an idiot would use X, and now Joe is left right back at the beginning.

Sorry, guys, but this "distribution of the month" club has to stop if anyone is actually serious about giving Microsoft a run for their money.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Total_Wimp · 2005-02-01 20:06 · Score: 2, Insightful

It's actually a little easier than all that. Joe six-pack picks up Red-Hat Linux at the CompUSA because he heard "it's the most popular" or "it's the best" or some other such thing. He loads it up (terrifically easy install) and starts to work.

Is Red Hat Linux "the best"? Who knows, but it is one of the most talked about in the media and it is on the shelf at CompUSA so why not give it a whirl?

OR...

Same reasoning, but he ends up downloading Fedora for free from one of the mirrors after going to the Red Hat web site.

THEN...

After he's wet his whistle, he'll start looking at some other distros (or not) and settle on something he likes.

Yes, this is how Joe Six-Pack really thinks. He goes with the distro he's heard about and gives it a try. It's probably going to be Red Hat/Fedora (but might not, depending on what kind of people he hangs out with).

Put another way: How on Earth is Joe Six-Pack going to figure out what brand of beer to buy? What car to buy? What brand of PC to buy? Which video game to buy? He might be a little confused, but he'll probably end up with the market leader with a reasonable chance that he'll try something else later on. He'll do this because the market leader is the one he's heard more stuff about. From this perspective, picking a Linux distro is probably not much more stresful than picking a candy bar brand. We don't really evaluate candy bars _that_ thouroughly... we buy a Snickers.

TW
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Photo_Nut · 2005-02-01 20:12 · Score: 1, Insightful

Parent poster wrote:
Does anyone stop to think that there may be too many flavors of Linux for the average user?...Perhaps the Linux community should get together and make a serious effort at a unified "desktop" launch.
And this would be *yet another* flavor... The truth is that you can't herd cats. Everyone wants to make the wheel in their own image, and there will always be a thousand varieties of anything that isn't controlled by a corporate entity.
The reason that Linux isn't competing on the desktop against Windows is that it isn't something which a user can go out to the store and buy software and hardware with confidence for. If I go to a best buy, there is no Linux certified laptop. There is no Linux certified Tablet. No Linux certified Media Center. I can buy a laptop and put whatever OS and drivers I want on it, but if I want a good laptop, I buy an Intel Centrino with Microsoft Windows. Maybe Joe Sixpack is a little less informed about software, hardware, etc than I am, but I happily pay the Microsoft tax because I get software that my wife can use out of the box, and she can also add software that her schools use (she is a teacher, and her school uses grading software that runs on Windows).
Windows has more software available for it than any other platform, and that includes FOSS. How is Linux special if all the software that runs on it also runs on Windows, but I need to worry about not being able to run the latest game or work with the latest cool devices? When I bought that Taiwanese 20GB portable USB2 storage device 2 years ago, I plugged it into my Windows machine, and I could use it. No kernel futzing, etc. I wanted to show my friend a bunch of photos on a CD (simple CD-R with no folder structure and just a bunch of .JPG files), and he spent 10 minutes putzing around with Linux getting his CD-ROM drive mounted, and attempting to find X-windows software that would load a picture. On Windows, I stick the disk in, and when it asks what I want to do, I click full-screen slide show.
For two years in college, I had a DEC Alpha running Linux and Windows NT. It was a damn fast computer at the time, but the Windows only ran x86 software under emulation, and that meant that I couldn't run all the software I wanted to in my room. So if I wanted to use the school-licensed software apps, I had to go to the public cluster. Eventually, I traded my alpha for a Pentium at a lesser clock rate, and it just clicked in my mind what I had been missing by running a less-used OS (even though it was a version of Windows that could run *some* Intel 32-bit Windows apps). That was the point where I gave up on my Microsoft is the devil category of thinking. I realized that the Intel/Microsoft platform is a constant. It always supports the latest hardware, and the apps from years ago continue to run.
In order for Linux to take over the desktop, it's going to have to be put out as the major option by hardware vendors, and it's going to have to clone all of Windows. Windows adds about $50 to the cost of a PC, but it is the brand name which people know runs their software. Software makers (even FOSS makers) target Windows over Linux simply because their target audience doesn't run Linux.
The barriers to adopt a desktop operating system are huge. Apple is successful because they have a user base and a set of apps. They made a very smart move to bring in Unix into their OS. This article is just a single data point which shows how the Linux market is fragmented. And Linux doesn't natively run Windows software. Windows is evolving, and the only thing which is completely bug-compatible with it is itself.
There are good emulators for Windows, but ask most people if they want to run a good emulator, or the thing being emulated. When I ran OS/2 Warp, I found myself using Windows more than the PM. I definately thought it was cool that the Windows session was embedded in the OS/2 session, and lots of things were really neat about that system, but it reall
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Apathetic1 · 2005-02-01 20:44 · Score: 2, Informative

Well, I checked on this - a Google search for Linux points to http://www.linux.org as the first hit. Searching on MSN for Linux returns http://www.linux.com and http://www.linux.org in that order.

If you go to linux.org and click "Download", it brings you to a page that mentions a) that you don't have to install Linux to the hard drive and b) that Knoppix is the most popular Live CD.

I'm not saying it's not a valid point - people are easily confused by "this Linux thing" if they haven't done any research but ultimately I think choice is better than no choice and the answers are within easy reach.

--
My username does not make me Apathetic. It's irony, get it?
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 20:46 · Score: 0

Push the gas petal, hit the brake, all cars drive the same with slight variations on handling. The brake is in the same place, the gas pedal is in the same place.

Beer? Gets ya drunk. Some taste different but its all in liquid form, goes in your mouth, makes you feel funny.

What about Linux.. there are hundreds of distros out there. You show a fundamental inability to put yourself in the shoes of a vast majority of the Windows users out there. They are not power users, heck, they barely even qualify as users in the first place. No, they're not going to download Fedora. Do you know how incredibly confusing it is to install an OS? No, because to you and I it is pretty damn easy. Microsoft (and Apple) have got it right. They started with the pretty look first. They got fonts looking sharp, buttons looking smooth, there's not a damn bit of flicker between windows. Sure the core kinda sucks in more ways than one but that's not what the vast majority of the users out there care about. They want to get their Excel sheets done, their email answered, and their documents printed. Most of my users didn't seem to care that I upgraded them from 2000 to XP, or from XP to XPsp2. As long as their Microsoft Word link was on their desktop they were happy.

Now Linux comes along, and most people argue that linux is more secure, blah blah blah. They cite examples such as browser hijacking, popups, etc.. but how did those things get on the end user's machines in the first place? They clicked on something.. do they know what? Of course not! They didn't care. It's the same kind of naieve approach to computing that the innocent users of the world are victims of. Linux won't fix that. In fact, these same users who have trouble with day to day operations on IE are not going to have a better experience with Firefox, Netscape, whatever.. They're still going to wind up with popups or other viruses because they don't know any better.

Instead of debating Windows vs. Linux, lets try starting with education. You may find that you don't have to flame people or insult them to get them to switch, but they may actually decide for themselves that Linux, or Windows, is the right choice for them.

Believe it or not, just because your front door is left wide open, doesn't mean your going to get robbed. The argument about security over Microsoft vs. Linux, IE vs Firefox, is all moot. No one cares. It's all about the final results, and right now, Linux doesn't deliver. What it delivers is an ugly conglomeration of strange actions and odd command lines. Joe Six-Pack is going to buy a new Windows computer, not a Linux box.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 21:04 · Score: 0

Try your "Google criteria" with Windows. You will get an equally confusing raft of crap that pops up. The only reason there isn't a decision on which Windows for most people is that Dell or Gateway decided for them.

I think that's the point.

Yes, Dell and Gateway decided for them: they decided that the best course of action is to go with what Microsoft has, bad as it is. (If a PC maker came out with their own OS that was better, do you think it would sell? Hint: It didn't work for BeOS.)

People don't want slightly-better-but-different -- especially people new to Linux. They want what everybody else has (can you say "Redhat"?), with the assumption that it'll get better in version N+1.

Why can't these Linux distribution geeks swallow just a teensy bit of their pride and figure out that it's *not* in the best interests of Linux-on-the-desktop to create yet-another-distribution? Suck it up, and join a project that already exists. They're not horrible, and they're pretty far along. And surely in 6 months they'll be much further along than something you start anew today.

Of course, part of the problem is with the distributions, as well. They're not terribly welcoming of new people, especially new people who want to change things.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Mornelithe · 2005-02-01 21:04 · Score: 1

You missed the entire point of the post you replied to.

The point is, whether or not there are 50 forked versions of a project for geeks, there will likely be one that stands out and is on the common distribution for the common guy. You don't need to choose, because Red Hat chooses for you with its defaults.

There are thousands of programs that do the same thing on Windows, and people just use the most popular or whatever came with their computer. It's not a problem that the other programs exist, and it's not a problem on Linux either.

Not to mention the fact that people can't seem to understand that a lot of the people actually working on and maintaining projects aren't the armchair philosophers who want to destroy Microsoft at all costs and see Linux rule the world. They're just people who enjoy writing software that fulfills their and other like-minded people's visions. Not everyone gives a shit about what 'Joe Sixpack' does.

--

I've come for the woman, and your head.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 21:19 · Score: 0

Yes, and it embiggens the users with big floating heads.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Mornelithe · 2005-02-01 22:53 · Score: 3, Insightful

MS and Apple didn't 'get it right' by making the interface shinier first and worrying about the core second. That doesn't alleviate the fact that installing an operating system is hard (which you cite as a problem).

The only reason people can use Windows and MacOS, but they "can't" use Linux is that Linux doesn't come pre-installed on a desktop system from any of the major players. People never have to install OSX or Windows, and that's a major advantage.

Ordinary people are perfectly capable of using a modern Linux desktop once it's installed. There are plenty of people here giving testimonials like, "my mom uses Linux, now that I set her up with it." The problem is that 99% of PCs are sold with Windows installed, and 100% of Macs have MacOS (assuming you want Linux to take over there, though I don't know why you would).

If Linux had 95% of the PC marketshare and came preinstalled on all PCs, and Windows were struggling, and nothing else were changed from how it currently is,* I doubt you'd see people having terrible problems, and people would be talking about how 'Joe Sixpack' can't handle Windows because it's too hard to install it separately and it's 'non-standard' so it's hard for people to use. "It doesn't look like Linux, so no one will ever switch."

KDE and Gnome aren't unusable by any reasonable standard. They're not even that different from Windows and OSX. At least, they're not any more different than the differences between cars or beers. We don't have radically different paradigms for web browsing and word processing on Linux. They just look a little different and shuffle the menus around, and that's not anything you can't get used to quickly.

Linux doesn't deliver. What it delivers is an ugly conglomeration of strange actions and odd command lines.

I don't know where you got this idea, but it's bullshit. If you're doing what everyday people are doing, you can do it in one, consistent environment (pick KDE or Gnome, I don't care which), and without a command line. Hell, I could do most of my 'power user' stuff without a command line if I wanted.

* Well, maybe change the fact that most hardware manufacturers would rather shove bamboo under their fingernails than release specifications for their hardware so that open source people can support it, rather than spending their time reverse-engineering the interfaces. I bet people could swing that if Linux had 95% marketshare.**

** Anal-retentive hardware companies are probably the #1 reason Linux users want other people to use Linux (other than altruism or something). I know that if hardware companies wouldn't be such bastards about releasing specs (they don't even need to write drivers), I wouldn't even consider caring what other people use (not that I care a lot now).

--

I've come for the woman, and your head.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Bralkein · 2005-02-01 23:45 · Score: 1

Consider this, if you will: Joe User, sick of cleaning the spyware and virii off his Windows box for the bazillionth time reads about "Linux" in the Times/on Cnet/wherever. Naturally, he googles it, and ends up with all 18 of these live distros, a ton of kernel related stuff that he doesn't understand, and a gazillion news articles reviewing things he knows nothing about.

Did you actually TRY what you said there? Let's have a go, shall we? OK, I am Mr. J. User. I type "Linux" into google, and press enter. For the FIRST RESULT, I get:

The Linux Home Page at Linux Online Linux Online, ... Linux is a free Unix-type operating system originally created by Linus Torvalds with the assistance of developers around the world. ...

The Linux Home Page! Alright, this sounds like a good place to learn more about Linux... Then, by clicking on that link, I would be taken to linux.org, which has on the front page articles explaining what Linux is, how to get started with Linux, etc, etc.

I guess you kind of have a point, but I think it's less of a problem than you make it out to be. After all, when browsing the Internet, how often do you come across something mentioning Windows XP or Windows 98 or another specific version of Windows, for example when downloading some software? A large number of the non PC-savvy people I know don't even know what version of Windows they're running, but they still seem to get along somehow.

At the end of the day, if someone really wants to switch to Linux, and go through the work that it entails, they're not really going to be put off by the small amount of research they might have to do to achieve that end. Hell, the problem could be solved instantly just by talking to a neighbourhood nerd.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-02 00:21 · Score: 0

Joe User with a Mac ... LOL!
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Hognoxious · 2005-02-02 00:28 · Score: 1

The "problem" with RedHat and SuSE is that they are "kitchen sink" distros; i.e., they throw everything and the kitchen sink onto their CDs. That's not a problem for a reasonably computer literate person, but it can be a big problem for Joe Average Luser
Joe Average Luser doesn't know how to uncheck a checkbox? Hmmm ... maybe a grain of truth there, but even so, last time I installed dead rat it had several preconfigured options - mobile, desktop, server. Someone who can't choose between those probably can't put the CD in the right way up.

--
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-02 00:34 · Score: 0

In Soviet Russia... just like that it was!
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Alci12 · 2005-02-02 00:43 · Score: 1

There are areas that co-operation would significantly boost ease of use that doesn't limit variety. Just basic things like trying to come up with a common boot/installation procedure, common Internet cfg. The choices at the end can be just as wide but having the basics the same helps newbs
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-02 01:21 · Score: 0

If the problem is that Joe is confused by the variety, then he needs to look for one of the gazillion pages that explain, in plain english, the difference between Linux distros. Yes they exist, and some of them are actually not bad and relatively objective/unbiased.

If you want to be part of the solution, write one. All Joe needs to do is find it.

If, however, Joe lacks the motivation to do the research properly, well, that's his problem - if he doesn't care enough to look for a decent explanation of the differences, then he certainly isn't going to bother waiting for a distro to download, let alone reinstalling a whole O/S.

Think about it: If you want to get a new car because your current one is a paddock-bomb, you have to care enough to actually get off your arse and look for new cars, find out their specs, and make a decision. If you have no motivation to actually do that, then you don't really want a new car, and you may as well go pull your pud in the back seat...
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Total_Wimp · 2005-02-02 01:34 · Score: 1

No, they're not going to download Fedora. Do you know how incredibly confusing it is to install an OS?

Two part answer:

1. You're right, they're not goin got download Fedora and install it (history has shown few people do this). They're not going to install it for tons of other reasons including plain old fashioned social fear that someone is going to recommend some great Windows software to them and and they're going to have to look sheepishly at the ground and say, "my computer wont run that."

But those reasons have very little to do with how many distros there are. The "confusion" argument breaks down in the real world. If it's preinstalled (rare, but it happens) the user is going to be happy with what he has, or he'll re-install with something that will make him happy. If he decides to download, real users are not paralized with fear trying to decide which they should download. The number of different distros is just not that much of a factor in whether to use or not use Linux.

2. If you're already made the decision to manualy install an OS, installing Linux is hands down the easist install of any OS in many cases. Red Hat 9 had the easiest install of any OS I've ever installed, at the time I installed it. I did install it on very standar HP/Compaq equipment, but the number of decisions was absolutely minimal and the ones that had to be made were generally not very technical. I would not hesitate to let my teenage daughter install it by herself while I was at the grocery store.

But, with live CDs it's even easier than that. Many non linux users these days have their first experience here without the need to "install" at all. They're given a CD by a friend (once again we see that choosing a distro doesn't really affect their ability to use Linux) and it just runs and they try it out for a little bit and go back to Windows. Yes, they go back to Windows. Almost always. BUT, they have less fear now and the next time they see a PC with Linux installed they jump right in and use it.

But what about getting PC people to switch? Another argument for another day. LOTS of reasons why people prefer to stay with what they have, not the least of which is the notion that their brother in law can easily help them with it when it's broke. I'm just saying the the variety of Linux distros is likely to be only a minor factor here, if at all.

What about getting Mac people to switch? They already did. BSD = Linux for the sake of this argument.

TW
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by raxxerax · 2005-02-02 01:58 · Score: 1

From this perspective, picking a Linux distro is probably not much more stresful than picking a candy bar brand.

In the past, it was very much more stressful. Joe Six-Pack could really try of Linux without making significant changes to his box that he didn't really understand without even knowing if he would like Linux in the first place.

The Live CDs go a long way to making the choosing of a Linux "brand" less stressful. Joe Six-Pack can try out a lot of different flavors without even changing the configuration of his Windows box. He can choose one that is somewhat to his liking and play with it for a while, again without risking his precious and familiar Windows. Eventually, he may decide to take the plunge and stop using Windows altogether. But if not, he's lost nothing.

Very much a stressless experience.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by VTBassMatt · 2005-02-02 02:07 · Score: 1

As a beer snob, I take great offense to your statement that beers are all alike... ...or that beer is like Linux... ...or Windows... ...or something like that...

(no, seriously, taste the difference between a doppelbock and an American pale ale, for example... these are NOT the same beverage...)
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Deliveranc3 · 2005-02-02 02:21 · Score: 0, Flamebait

Windows works out of the box, with everything working. Monitor, Graphics card, internet everything!

Yea it's harder for linux, but it doesn't mean that the goal shouldn't be the same.

In terms of ease of use a few distro's I've installed have been far and away better, Mandrake, Redhat, Suse. (Debian falls the farthest short, though it sounds like Gentoo also sucks.)

I haven't tried the auto update from internet but I haven't heard good things.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by X_Bones · 2005-02-02 02:22 · Score: 1

>Does anyone stop to think that there may be too many flavors of Linux for the average user?

Yes, and decided the point has validity.

>"Perhaps the Linux community should get together and make a serious effort at a unified "desktop" launch."

No, they shouldn't.

Well, "kfg" said it so it must be true. Way to make strong claims and then provide no evidence, not even personal anecdotes, to back up those claims. Your post adds exactly zero to the debate.

Anyway, do you honestly think having at least the option for a unified desktop is a completely evil thing? Nobody's forcing you to use anything, but I know it would make my life a hell of a lot easier if there was a common graphical desktop shipped with every flavor of Linux. Then I could go admin my parents', girlfriend's, or whoever's computer without caring what distro they run or how they have their prefered environment set up. I'm sure there's other advantages (corporate desktops, for example) that I haven't mentioned. Maybe you should take a moment and at least consider some possible advantages for others, instead of taking a stance which seems to be "I don't need it so nobody else does either."

--

the coolest club on /.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by swv3752 · 2005-02-02 02:54 · Score: 2, Insightful

At out Linux meetup last night we had a new guy show up. One of the members was showing off his new Linspire notebook. The new guy fiddles about with the notebook for a few minutes and exclaims that Linux is easy to use. He figured it wouldn't take him very long acclimize to the slight differences with Linux.

Linspire uses KDE, but GNOME is essentially the same to a beginning Linux user.

--
Just a Tuna in the Sea of Life
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Firehawke · 2005-02-02 02:57 · Score: 2, Informative

Windows doesn't work "out of the box" with semimodern hardware any better than Linux does-- I still have to grab drivers for my soundcard and videocard to make them work with Windows (Radeon 9700 Pro and Audigy). Oh, and my network adaptor as well-- I'm using an NForce2 motherboard and there aren't drivers on the Windows CD itself. I have to install those from an additional CD. Admittedly getting drivers installed is a little easier on Windows, but it's still far beyond what the 'average' user is comfortable with.

This is where Dell makes it easier-- by standardizing on a single configuration on the machine and including the necessary drivers from the start, there's no hassle or headache to getting the hardware working. If Dell were to distribute similarly with a Linux-based config using a standard pre-set hardware config, you'd find it goes pretty much as well.

As for ease of use, I'd put Gentoo at the bottom of the list-- it's definitely a distro for an experienced user, though that's not really a mark against it such that it's designed for people who want additional control and are willing to learn the additional steps to handle it.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by mspohr · 2005-02-02 03:06 · Score: 1

If you really had RTFA (all the way to the third page... I know it's hard to focus for that long after watching TV), you would have seen that he does make one recommendation:
"But what's the one live CD to carry around with you, not only to wow your friends, but to do actual work quickly and efficiently: BeatrIX."
/Mark

--
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by grumbel · 2005-02-02 03:14 · Score: 1

### This seems to pop every once and again, in different varieties: "there's too many distros/desktop projects/widget sets/web browsers/Hello Kitty squid cookies to choose from. Why can't we have just one?"

I don't think many people want 'just one' distro, two, three or maybe even four are for sure ok, LFS and SuSE for example have completly different goals so its ok to keep them seperate, but most of the rest is just trying to solve exactly the same problem. Its 95% NIH syndrome and maybe 5% real difference.

### Users pick different distros/desktops and so on because they have different needs and different preferences.

No, they pick different distros because they are so many of them arround, not because one does suit their needs better then the other. Most people simply stay attached to whatever they touched first. What is for example the major difference between SuSE, Redhat, Fedora and Mandrake? All of them seem to solve exactly the same problem and none really solves it a lot better then the other and all end up with half done solutions because they don't work together. XFree86 configuration for example still is a pain, actually today more then five years ago when we had XF86Setup, not because its especially hard to solve this problem, but because everybody tries to solve it on its own. There are dozens of XFree86 config helpers around, none however is complete, most of them are incompatible and half of them would overwrite the others work if combined. There is really NO benefit of having a dozen broken solutions vs one working one.

The real throuble is that it has become a habit to solve problems under Linux with creating yet another custom incompatible distro, which is just plain stupid. For each problem a custom distro solves it creates two other due to the incompatibility with other distros. Under other OSs people solve problems by writing software which works everywhere, under Linux however people prefer to stay incompatible with each other.

LSB might one day reduce the number of custom distros since people can then just package the software that they actually need to solve their problem and arn't forced to build a whole distro around their solution, but we are not their yet and probally won't be for a while.

As long as each Linux is basically completly incompatible to the next, except via recompile, I really don't see Linux having any chance of ever entering mainstream.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-02 03:19 · Score: 0

How the holy hell did kfg's zero-worth comment get modded up to +4?!?!
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by grumbel · 2005-02-02 03:19 · Score: 2, Insightful

### The only reason people can use Windows and MacOS, but they "can't" use Linux is that Linux doesn't come pre-installed on a desktop system from any of the major players. People never have to install OSX or Windows, and that's a major advantage.

That and because its trivial to install other software under Windows and MacOS, while its almost impossible for the normal user to install something under Linux when it doesn't come with the distro. Moving from 'I have seen some software on some webpage' to 'I can use the software' doesn't take much more then a few minutes under Windows/MacOSX, most of which is just download time and install time, both of which fully automatic, under Linux such a issue can turn into a day long job, full of manual work, webpage browsing, groups.google browsing for tips&tricks and workaround, dependency resolution and other stuff which is impossible todo for the average user and still a pain for the experienced one.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by grumbel · 2005-02-02 03:29 · Score: 1

### Try your "Google criteria" with Windows. You will get an equally confusing raft of crap that pops up.

Aehm, no. On Windows he might and up with different choices of software for Windows, with Linux he ends up with different choices of Linux itself, big difference. A piece of Windows software I can install, test, deinstall, no problem, no incompatbilities to worry about. With Linux however half the solution one finds require a different brand of Linux to work and its basically impossible for JoeSixpack to install it on his other brand of Linux.

The throuble isn't that there are dozens of different Linux distros around, but the fact that they are all mostly incompatible to each other and that software is most often only build to work on exactly one distro and even a specific version of it. Compiling from source and solving dependencies manually is not really the kind of answer that helps JoeSixpack.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by ATMosby · 2005-02-02 03:33 · Score: 1

Perhaps we should just have a random assassination of developers and users until the level of fear has risen to the point that everyone chants in unison.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-02 03:47 · Score: 0

It's not that hard, there are only a couple distros worth mentioning to the average person.

- Fedora (for the people who like their machine to boot for 30 minutes and update even slower; and then crash and sometimes not boot at all)

- Mandrake (same problem as above, easy install though)

- Gentoo (for people who don't actually use their computer; they just like to compile stuff)

- Ubuntu (for people who want a real OS)
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by wolf31o2 · 2005-02-02 03:50 · Score: 1

You are correct. We shouldn't waste our time trying to make everything the same. However, a lot of work has been put into having the same interfaces across the different desktops. Check out freedesktop.org for more information. It really does make sense to at least have standards between the interfaces, but one of the primary drawing points of Linux (at least as I see it) is the flexibility and choices available.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Cro+Magnon · 2005-02-02 03:52 · Score: 1

There used to BE one good distro that I'd recommend by default. Namely RedHat. It wasn't the best, it wasn't even the easiest. But it WAS a market standard. Unfortunately, they turned their backs on the non-corporate market, so I recommend SuSe/Mandrake/Lindows now. Or Slackware/Debian for techies.

--
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by DarthVain · 2005-02-02 04:19 · Score: 1

This is exactly the situation I am in right now. Choice is good however. I did something much like the author, in that I made 4 different LiveCD's. I just went to LinuxQuestions.org and DestroWatch.com and picked what seemed to me the top destro's in each category (so far I have Gentoo, Knoppix, XANDROS, and MEPIS). From what I have read I will probably want to try KNOPPIX or MEPIS (this article seems to like MEPIS more than others) first, then perhaps GENTOO if I ever get that advanced.

So far none of the LiveCD's have worked (I blame my crappy old Dell), but I hear (haven't tried yet) I can make a boot floppy to bypass my old crappy DELL BIOS, and boot the CDROM from the floppy BIOS (unless someone is pulling my chain). I would then see what each is like on the LiveCD (Although I think Gentoo has to be installed, and from what I hear it is a big process). I would probably start with a easier or more basic favor anyway. It can be confusing though, as there are a TON of different distro's out there (which I didn't really realise until I started looking into it). It does help however when people make articles like the one above or forums like this one as well. Anyway thats how I see it from my perspective. Besides the more research I do, the more knowlegable I become, and am able to make a more informed decision.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-02 04:38 · Score: 1, Interesting

With Debian or ubuntu and synaptic, users don't NEED to install software isn't included in the distro. EVERYTHING is included. The stuff that isn't included falls into 2 categories:

1) obscure software, which is usually stuff that only power users need anyway (yeah, i build my wmi window manager from source on debian, but no non-tech user is going to want it).

2) stuff that's non-free/not-quite-legal like non-licensed audio/video codecs. But once linux starts becoming more popular, mp3 players will start to support ogg, etc.

There are things like java and goddamn flash players that are more of a pain, but this stuff will be fixed with time.

I think even in the past year gnu/linux has become a lot more usable for newbies. IMO most (not all) of the remaining complexities/obstacles will be resolved within another year or 2 at most. Others may disagree, but I think that both gnome and kde are easier to use for a newbie than e.g., OSX. (I have to click in a million places to figure out where stuff is in OSX when people at my job ask me to help them with it, and it's smb support is buggy -- worse than gnu/linux for sure).
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-02 04:54 · Score: 1, Interesting

That and because its trivial to install other software under Windows
I wish that was true. I have trouble with 1 in 3 applications becasue the all assume they will only be run by administrator. Maybe you are always logged in as administrator, so you've never notice this. There are dependency problems in windows too. The dll scheme is a total mess and when it goes wrong it's almost impossible to fix. Same with the registry. Today I'm reinstalling a windows machine because it's just become slow and bloated over the years. Yes, I know how to clean them up, but that only work for the first few years.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by ravee · 2005-02-02 05:07 · Score: 1

Actually there is a standard for linux which is followed by atleast major distro companies worth their salt (money). I think it is the POSIX standard (I'm not sure about the name).

But the real beauty of linux is that it can really be moulded and extended acording to the individuals taste.

ravee
--
http://linuxhelp.blogspot.com

--
Linux Help
for all things on Linux
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by grumbel · 2005-02-02 05:10 · Score: 1

### EVERYTHING is included.

While Debian provides a lot, it by far does not provide everything, especially the stable tree is completly outdated. Unstable on the other side provides much more, but still far from everything and isn't really suited for newbies (well, stable isn't either for numerous reasons). Debian is a good starting point, but nothing more.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by slapout · 2005-02-02 05:26 · Score: 1

You'll get flamed for saying stuff like that.

But maybe what we do need is a distro focused solely on former Windows XP users. You know how MS Word has help for WordPerfect users telling them how to do in Word what they did in WP? It could have something like that. (How do I send email in Linux? How do I listen to an MP3? etc.)

--
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-02 05:26 · Score: 0

Joe Average Luser doesn't know how to uncheck a checkbox? Hmmm ... maybe a grain of truth there, but even so, last time I installed dead rat it had several preconfigured options - mobile, desktop, server. Someone who can't choose between those probably can't put the CD in the right way up.

Maybe you miss my point. Even if J.A.Luser chooses desktop, you still get everything and the kitchen sink (especially if you choose desktop). Good ol'Joe just needs basic email, browser, etc. programs that are "good enough".

The "problem" is that Joe gets 20 email, browser, etc. programs; 2 or 3 of them are "good enough' and the rest are crap. So he has to spend his inexperienced time trying out each program until he finds one that is "good enough". Maybe you think that's fun, but we're talking about J.A.Luser here.

Of course RedHat and SuSE don't really target the J.A.Luser market. There are distros like Lycoris and Xandros (and probably others) that are much more noobie friendly and don't suffer from the "kitchen sink" syndrome (but at the same time don't target the business/server market like RedHat and SuSE).
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Razzak · 2005-02-02 05:35 · Score: 1

* Who, exactly, would do the picking? Based on what criteria? And who would decide that person/organization actually was a good choice to pick an alternative?

Me.

Nah. But seriously, someone should develop a "starter" linux. It doesn't need high-end administration tools. It just needs a very simple install and self-diagnostics (hopefully something better than Windows solution: reinstall). Also, should come bundled with just Thunderbird, Firebird, OOffice, Media Player, iTunes-like thing, Gaim, a Picasa-type product, PDF Viewer, and maybe Skype.

It should come with a buttload of drivers, all *installed by default*. I know this is an anti-linux idea at its core, but I think the two biggest pains for the average computer user are a) crashes and b) driver hunting.

Ideally, 90% of peripherals should "just work".

Do all that, and put it in a big pink bow, and you'll get more users trying it out. Oh, that and include a really freaking fun single/multi player game on there with a shortcut to it right on the friggin desktop. Do what MSFT has done for years: use games to sell your unnecessasry crap.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by kfg · 2005-02-02 07:37 · Score: 1

. . .do you honestly think having at least the option for a unified desktop is a completely evil thing?

No. I think that's an oxymoron. Tell you what, just call KDE the "optional unified desktop" and you'll be there.

KFG
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by darquewing · 2005-02-02 07:38 · Score: 1

I believe that increasing number of distros available is not a disadvantage of Linux, but more the evolution of software. Henry Ford said about the Model T, "You can have it in any color, so long as it's black." Now you can get an automobile in any style, color, price-range you want. Computers and OS's are starting to follow the same path. The best relation to Linux and auto's is that all almost all cars are powered by IC(internal-combustion) engines. So they all work basically the same way. All distros of Linux are powered by.. well.. Linux. But beyond that we get more customization. Saying there are too many flavors of Linux is like saying there are too many choices in anything.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by Mornelithe · 2005-02-02 09:25 · Score: 1

Actually, I'm an aspiring beer snob as well. It was the guy above me that implied that all beers are the same. That's sort of what I meant when I said that the differences between Linux distributions or between Linux and Windows are no greater than the differences between beers out there.

There are thousands of beers to choose from, and they're all slightly or very different from one another, but only people who go looking actually see all the variety. If all you do is go to your grocery store, you're likely to see only a few brands that are all about the same.

Anyway, I don't know where I'm going with this, so I'll stop now. Any recommendations for something to try? I'm most partial to stouts and wheat beers, if you know any good ones.

--

I've come for the woman, and your head.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by VTBassMatt · 2005-02-02 09:50 · Score: 1

If you can make it over to Ashburn, VA, to the Old Dominion Brewing Company, they make a **great** stout called Oak Barrel. Also, the Steelworkers Oatmeal Stout at Bethlehem Brewing Company (Bethlehem, PA) is pretty special. As for "national" micros/regionals, I like Redhook's and Sierra Nevada's stouts and porters.

I'm not much of a wheat fan myself, so I wouldn't know what's a good one and what's not.

"There are no beer experts, only beer drinkers with an opinion." --BeerAdvocate.com
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by DarkMantle · 2005-02-02 16:04 · Score: 1

Point taken, but when I was a fledgling geek the first thing I did was typed linux in my search engine, and went to www.linux.org

Then went to distrobutions. And selected mainstream, english, for intel compatible systems. and what happened?

"Distributions matched: 81"

Thats alot of choices for Joe to pick from.

and most Joes only call their "geek" friends when their computers broken, so I don't talk to Jamie anymore... I mean Joe.

--
DarkMantle I been bored, so I started a blog.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by danila · 2005-02-06 08:43 · Score: 1

Does anyone stop to think that there may be too many flavours of LCD displays, hard disks, cars, cell phones, webmail providers and everything else? If one distro was better than all the others in all respects, you wouldn't hear about others. Nobody would use them. But because they can steal valuable IP from each other (like BeatrIX does from 3 other distros) they can make sure that each distro is good for something.

Yes, it would be easier to everyone if there was one big Linux and you just had to go to linux.com to get it, but it's pretty simply as it is. Just download any LiveCD distro and try it out. If you are willing to test another OS, you would probably have enough courage to just download something and try it.

--
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by DarkMantle · 2005-02-10 11:23 · Score: 1

I'm saying, instead of forking (pick a distro) yet again, help improve (same distro).

there are how many red hat/fedora forks? debian? Just help improve the one that you like enough to fork instead of making more confusing options.

--
DarkMantle I been bored, so I started a blog.
Re:Inevitable comment, but valid point.. by lachlan76 · 2005-02-10 17:25 · Score: 1

Everyone has different goals. What Redhat wants might be different to what I want.

Error by CypherXero · 2005-02-01 16:34 · Score: 4, Interesting

Why is FreeBSD listed? It's not Linux.

Re:Error by SaidinUnleashed · 2005-02-01 16:38 · Score: 2, Insightful

Because it /is/ a live CD, and it's actually pretty nice, if your hardware is supported.

But it barfs on new and cutting edge hardware.

i.e. no netcard detection, improper clock speed detection, etc. It still works, just not as well as it could.

on a personal note- woo! DSL! ...but not a very flattering review of our distro.

It's really not that confusing. Most people get the hang of it quickly.

--
Shiny. Let's be bad guys.
Re:Error by zizzo · 2005-02-01 16:39 · Score: 1

Correction: FreeBSD is not GNU/Linux.

Yes, that is a joke.
Re:Error by gatesh8r · 2005-02-01 17:07 · Score: 1

That isn't recursive. Bad GNU/Fanboy! Now you must use Windows!

--
Karma whorin' since 1999
Re:Error by Trogre · 2005-02-02 09:15 · Score: 1

Even though Linux is a registered trademark, I believe it is still used as a generic term for GNU/Linux distributions, which are very similar to GNU/BSD distros apart from the kernel.

Kind of like how when you Lux your house (or Hoover your house if you're american) you're not necessarily using an Electrolux (or Hoover) brand vacuum cleaner. Same principle.

--
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife

FreeBSD? by Justin205 · 2005-02-01 16:36 · Score: 2, Insightful

OSNews carries "a quick roundup" of 18 (they are not kidding, eighteen) live Linux distributions.
...FreeSBIE (based on Free BSD)...

Since when is FreeBSD a Linux distro?

--
"Your effort to remain what you are is what limits you."

Re:Can a .22 rifle shoot though 18 Live Linux CDs? by flynns · 2005-02-01 16:36 · Score: 5, Funny

Of course it can, you fool! They've all got holes in the middle!!

--
'If you're flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit.'

BSD-ix ? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 16:36 · Score: 0

"...FreeSBIE (based on Free BSD)"
A Linux distro based on FreeBSD deserves more than a passing mention don't you think ?

Here we go! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 16:37 · Score: 0

Let me be the first to start with the "my distribution is better" post. Since they forgot to review Gentoo, it is obvious they have skipped live CD's that were out of the league of the other ones. It is nothing but fair to leave Gentoo out, as it would have wiped the other distro's easily. :)

FreeSBIE is not Linux by SirCyn · 2005-02-01 16:37 · Score: 3, Insightful

FreeSBIE is based on FreeBSD and should not have been included in a Live Linux CD Roundup without special mention.

I suspect that the author is not familiar with FreeBSD, and assumed it would be the same as Linux. In many ways FreeBSD is similar to Linux, but the fact that he could not get Printing or Wireless running tells me he really didn't know what he was doing. Both of these tasks would take me 15 minutes.

On a last note, this is only the second release of FreeSBIE, and it's based on the somewhat criticized 5.x line. Problems of one kind or another should be expected. Give them a few more releases and I'm sure they'll have the bugs worked out.

--
FreeBSD: The Power to Serve!

Re:FreeSBIE is not Linux by cmad_x · 2005-02-01 17:48 · Score: 0

He also says it crashed his system twice, which hasn't happened to me yet. I wonder what he tried to do.

Also, my guess is that the author of the OSNews article was influenced by distrowatch, since FreeBSD (and the other *BSDs) is listed there, along with all the linuxes, so he might have gotten confused (he doesn't seem a whole lot knowledgable about their differences)
Re:FreeSBIE is not Linux by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 18:04 · Score: 0

FreeBSD 5.x is seriously behind in the maturity department. I am not surprised he was able to crash it just trying to set up wireless networking; not surprised in the least.

4.x, on the other hand, is a rock in comparison.
Re:FreeSBIE is not Linux by HanB · 2005-02-01 19:10 · Score: 2, Insightful

FreeSBIE is based on FreeBSD and should not have been included in a Live Linux CD Roundup without special mention.
Well it's not GNU/Linux, but somehow ``Linux,'' for starters, got mixed up with ``all OSS os'es which run on i386,'' and I have no problem with that. I can explain a more accurate version of the truth later on when the audience is interested.
I'm very glad there are alternatives for Linux. Since I would hate it if we would step from one monopoly into another.
Personally I use OpenBSD on the firewall, and Linux on the desktop, and I'd wish there were less rock/suckers. You know: MY OS ROCKS!!!1 YOUR OS SUCKS!!!!
There's only one guy profiting from these silly flamewars: Bill Gates.
Re:FreeSBIE is not Linux by Hektor_Troy · 2005-02-01 22:47 · Score: 1

Getting FreeSBIE to crash my laptop is quite easy - just use startx, once you're at the prompt. Or boot the default option.

--
We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.

And... by Dorothy+86 · 2005-02-01 16:38 · Score: 1

...Well the information on each one was sure handy, if nothing else! I know I'll be checking some of these out, namely Xfld, which I had not heard of until now. Knoppix hardware support is crazy, and Xfce is just soooo nice!

--
Game Overdrive - Gaming News

Having a tough time getting worked up over this. by whjwhj · 2005-02-01 16:40 · Score: 1, Insightful

I don't know about you folks, but the whole Linux distribution thing is not generating the sort of excitement and enthusiasm it used to for me. Maybe because I started using OS X ... ?

good read... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 16:40 · Score: 0

I read the article, and am intrigued by http://www.pclinuxonline.com/. I'm definately checking out this distro tomorrow.

One that that bugged the crap out of me. Couldn't the reviewer have included processor speed in the freakin specs listed for each testing machine?

Re:Live CDs by desplesda · 2005-02-01 16:42 · Score: 2, Funny

Imagine a beowulf cluster of these....

I can't fit more than three discs in my drive.

Let's call it ... by yuri+benjamin · 2005-02-01 16:43 · Score: 1

... 18 live CDs based on unix-like OSes, or 17 live linux and one live BSD.

--
You make the mistake of thinking you can educate the fundamental stupidity out of people. You can't.

sigh... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 16:47 · Score: 0

omfg, MORE linux fragmentation... As if it's not bad enough already!

Please find me a liveCD by mrpuffypants · 2005-02-01 16:48 · Score: 3, Interesting

Here's what I want:

- A linux liveCD without any X server installed whatsoever
- DSL doesn't count, since it has to hack a bunch of things up to work within 50MB
- If possible, i'd like it to be debian-based

Any ideas?

I've tried re-mastering Knoppix over and over but it seems like the minute I uninstall KDE/X the whole system craps out.

Re:Please find me a liveCD by bluewee · 2005-02-01 16:57 · Score: 1

Not to be a gentoo fanboy, but The gentoo live install cd, has a good selection of utilities, and drivers, so suit most needs. I actually liked older version because it loaded up faster and did not try to load a whole bunch of drivers that I did not need.
Also you could also just "knoppix 2" to stay in runlevel 2 which does not load the X server.
Oh and I am pretty sure that the iso is around 64mb.

--
[blue] - The Ministry of Information approved this message...
Re:Please find me a liveCD by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 17:01 · Score: 0

The following is Gentoo based: http://www.sysresccd.org/
Re:Please find me a liveCD by bfree · 2005-02-01 17:10 · Score: 4, Interesting

Perhaps Debian From Scratch is what you are looking for?

--
Never underestimate the dark side of the Source
Re:Please find me a liveCD by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 17:11 · Score: 0

If you purchase the 4 disk slackware set, you get a live CD lacking X.
Re:Please find me a liveCD by jrcamp · 2005-02-01 17:26 · Score: 3, Informative

Use http://www.morphix.org/ and make your own main module? It's basically a chroot Debian install.

You bootstrap Debian (stable, testing, unstable), pack it up into a compressed file, and plop it into your Morphix directory and generate the ISO. It can be as bare-bones as you want it to be.

You do all your work within a Debian chroot, so you get to use all the wonderful Debian tools.
Re:Please find me a liveCD by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 17:29 · Score: 0

System Rescue CD maybe?

http://www.sysresccd.org/
Re:Please find me a liveCD by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 17:38 · Score: 0

For router/firewall/wifi stuff
http://www.wifi.com.ar/english/cdrouter.htm l
Re:Please find me a liveCD by ophix · 2005-02-01 17:40 · Score: 1

or just pick any of them that you want to use (such as knoppix) and tell it not to load a gui on the boot command line. with knoppix this is as simple as adding a "cheatcode" of 2 ie at the boot prompt something like this: knoppix26 noscsi 2
Re:Please find me a liveCD by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 17:57 · Score: 0

Timo's Rescue Cd Creation Set

The premade iso is a good small system suitable for a super rescue disk, but you can also 'roll your own'.
Re:Please find me a liveCD by HermanAB · 2005-02-01 18:16 · Score: 1

Well, it is really easy to make one yourself. See this guide (Google cache): http://tinyurl.com/4chb9 All you need is a 10GB partition and 2GB swap to mess around in.

--
Oh well, what the hell...
Re:Please find me a liveCD by koreaman · 2005-02-01 18:48 · Score: 1

The gentoo minimal installation CD is 50 or 60 megs, and includes no X server. The minimal CD is better suited to live-CD use than installing gentoo anyway.

--
Le français vous intéresse?
Re:Please find me a liveCD by Nimey · 2005-02-01 18:52 · Score: 1

You could download ZipSlack. As you might guess, it's a Slackware distro small enough to fit on a 100MB Zip disk.

--
Hail Eris, full of mischief...

E pluribus sanguinem
Re:Please find me a liveCD by randallpowell · 2005-02-01 19:14 · Score: 1

Install Debian with whatever apps and files you need. Apt-get install bootcd then run it. Instant Debian live CD as you want.
Re:Please find me a liveCD by avrincianu · 2005-02-01 23:33 · Score: 2, Informative

Why don't you try System Rescue CD ?
http://www.sysresccd.org/

It is gentoo-based, fits very nicely on a mini-cd (I carry one around all the time) and you can "roll your own". Good documentation, great features. And no X.

Quote from their website:
SystemRescueCd is a linux system on a bootable cdrom for repairing your system and your data after a crash. It also aims to provide an easy way to carry out admin tasks on your computer, such as creating and editing the partitions of the hard disk. It contains a lot of system utilities (parted, partimage, fstools, ...) and basic ones (editors, midnight commander, network tools).
Re:Please find me a liveCD by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 23:55 · Score: 0

not be troll but did you ever actually try dfs even once in your life time? The parent is talking about a Knoppix base debian while dfs still doesn't even have a installation program.No updates in the last 6 months btw, Yeah it has a cool name but just like the problem of many distros, it's a one-man-job project.
Re:Please find me a liveCD by wolf31o2 · 2005-02-02 03:53 · Score: 1

I would have had you covered until you said Debian-based... ;]

We are currently working on an X-based LiveCD, but I also plan on releasing a console-based LiveCD in the future for all of those console warriors.
Re:Please find me a liveCD by pureone · 2005-02-02 03:53 · Score: 1

check out ibuild
great stuff easy to use. i managed to make my own custom live cd with it :D

http://ibuild.livecd.net/

--
120 chars is not bloody enough for a real sig!!! you bastards even count spaces!!!
Re:Please find me a liveCD by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-02 06:33 · Score: 0

grml at http://grml.org
is defaulted to boot without x.
you may start fluxbox though.
it is a debian based live cd with admins and users of text tools in mind. its a great 'toy', i use it every day. if you're stuck on a windows comp, use the grml iso and qemu and u can boot grml within windows. (coool)
Re:Please find me a liveCD by skiman1979 · 2005-02-02 10:03 · Score: 1

Why does it need to be Debian based? As long as the LiveCD in question has all the tools you need. Since it's a LiveCD, you won't be reconfiguring anything on it, just running it to use the applications/utilities on it. Or am I missing something?

--
Having a smoking section in a public restaurant is like having a peeing section in a public swimming pool.
Re:Please find me a liveCD by bfree · 2005-02-10 13:43 · Score: 1

No I have never actually tried dfs.

I wonder why you say "The parent is talking about a Knoppix base debian" when in fact they simply state that they want a livecd without X based on Debian.

dfs does have an installation program, it may not be what you want, but knoppix-installer isn't what many people want either. dfs lets you install stable/testing or sid (and the i386 version even lets you install amd64).

To say dfs has not had an update in 6 months is a lie, last 1386 was released 28th October which is less then 4 months ago. Also, and more importantly, dfs is not just a livecd, it is also a debian package for producing itself and/or modified versions of it so depending how you think of it (and the original poster was trying remastering Knoppix as a solution) it is updated as often as Debian.

Finally, dfs (or dfsbuild if you prefer to call it that) is an official debian package so it is in fact produced by an enormous group of volunteers. Perhaps everything has been done by one-man and will continue to be, but it is Free and would be put up for adoption by another debian developer should the current developer orphan it.

So I say ... Troll ... but an anonymous one so you'll most probably never read this.

--
Never underestimate the dark side of the Source

Knoppix =! first "big" live CD. I don't think. by Slartibartfast · 2005-02-01 16:50 · Score: 1

Long before Knoppix, Linuxcare had a 50 MB bootable Debian image that was really, really slick. Unfortunately, with only 50 MB, it certainly wasn't meant as anything other than a cute trick/rescue disk -- I'd say that Knoppix definitely qualifies as the first big-time "Joe User" bootable Linux CD-ROM.

Hope they're not running their server... by nxtr · 2005-02-01 16:51 · Score: 2, Funny

...using one of the live cds...

Re:Hope they're not running their server... by timeOday · 2005-02-01 18:16 · Score: 1

Seems like it could be a very fine option if you're serving read-only information. Everything of interest would soon be served from the filesystem cache. And just try to install your rootkit on a server with no writable media, sucka!

In a row? by IntelliTubbie · 2005-02-01 16:51 · Score: 4, Funny

Try not to run any Linux distributions on the way to the parking lot! Hey, you ... get back here!

I'm not even supposed to be here today.

Cheers,
IT

--

Power corrupts. PowerPoint corrupts absolutely.

Re:In a row? by LGagnon · 2005-02-01 17:21 · Score: 2, Funny

My Linux distro is like a truck. Berzerker!
Would you like some making fsck? Berzerker!
My Linux distro is ticking clock. Berzerker!
Would you like to fsck my /dev/cock? Berzerker!
Re:In a row? by NiceGeek · 2005-02-01 17:37 · Score: 1

That's beautiful man.
Re:In a row? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 17:47 · Score: 0

That last line was the winner.

*claps*
Re:In a row? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 17:51 · Score: 0

Mod parent up! (as well as the berserker song):D

Both are clerks references
Re:In a row? by madmancarman · 2005-02-01 18:15 · Score: 5, Funny

Imagine instead of Dante and Veronica, a conversation between Klaus Knopper and Pamela Jones of Groklaw:
PAMELA: That was Gentoo. KLAUS: Why do you call him that? PAMELA: Linus made it up. It's a live linux CD thing. KLAUS: What do you mean? PAMELA: After he boots a live CD, he likes to download and compile new binaries from source. It's called gentooing. KLAUS: He requested this? PAMELA: He gets off on it. KLAUS: Linus can be talked into anything. PAMELA: Why do you say that? KLAUS: Like you said - he gentooed him. PAMELA: Linus? No; I gentooed him. KLAUS: Yeah, right. PAMELA: I'm serious... KLAUS: You booted that guy's live CD? PAMELA: Yeah. How do you think I know he liked... KLAUS: But...but you said you only installed three distros! You never mentioned his! PAMELA: That's because I never installed his! KLAUS: You booted his live CD! PAMELA: We went out a few times. We didn't install, but we fooled around. KLAUS: Oh my God! Why did you tell me you only installed three distros? PAMELA: Because I did only install three distros! That doesn't mean I didn't just live-boot with people. KLAUS: Oh my God-I feel so nauseous... PAMELA: I'm sorry, Klaus. I thought you understood. KLAUS: I did understand! I understand that you installed three different distros, and that's all you said. PAMELA: Please calm down. KLAUS: How many? PAMELA: Klaus... KLAUS: How many live CDs have you booted?! PAMELA: Let it go... KLAUS: HOW MANY? PAMELA: All right! Shut up a second and I'll tell you! Jesus! I didn't freak like this when you told me how many distros you installed. KLAUS: This is different. This is important. How many?! PAMELA: Something like seventeen. KLAUS: WHAT? SOMETHING LIKE SEVENTEEN? PAMELA: Lower your voice! KLAUS: What the hell is that anyway, "something like seventeen?" Does that include mine? PAMELA: Um. Eighteen. KLAUS: I'M EIGHTEEN? PAMELA: I'm going to class. KLAUS: Eighteen?! My girlfriend booted eighteen live CDs! RMS: In a row?

--
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Gandhi
Re:In a row? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 19:57 · Score: 0

Hey listen, jerk! Until today you never even knew how many distros I'd installed, because you never even asked. And then you act all nonchalant about installing twelve distros. Well, I never installed twelve distros!
Re:In a row? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 20:00 · Score: 0

hi-larious
Re:In a row? by bionicyeti · 2005-02-02 00:26 · Score: 1

That should be modded up to a: 6, funny
Re:In a row? by siskbc · 2005-02-02 03:37 · Score: 1

I'm not even supposed to be here today.
Fucking savages.

--
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat

Re:Having a tough time getting worked up over this by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 16:51 · Score: 1

I don't know about you folks, but the whole Linux distribution thing is not generating the sort of excitement and enthusiasm it used to for me. Maybe because I started using Debian ... ?

Re:Article Text+Morphix sux0rz by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 16:52 · Score: 0

they need to upgrade their video drivers.
when i tried to run some games from their live game CD, it lagged something awful, especially tuxracer. evidently they are using the xfree86 drivers from mandrake 9.0, because it does the same crap. mandrake 10.0 works perfectly though.
BTw, it;s not my cdrom thats slow, i moved the iso to a scsi drive and booted off of it.Same results.

A place for live distros ... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 16:53 · Score: 0

A live distro that I have used and like is Dynebolic. Its purpose is video editing and if you boot it, you can indeed edit video. On my boxen it 'just works.' I don't have to know what to apt-get or urpmi, everything I need is there including stuff I wouldn't have thought of.

I wonder if there are any other special purpose distros out there that we should know about?

I am a little disappointed that the guy dismisses Knoppix so casually. It detected some of my hardware better than Mandrake 10. I installed it on my flaky laptop which occasionally powers down unexpectedly. Previous installs of Mandrake have been quite damaged by the loss of power but the Knoppix/Debian has been quite robust so far. That's worth something for sure. I also hand out Knoppix CDs to the curious and everyone who got one has been impressed. I like it a lot!

Missing options by Kipsaysso · 2005-02-01 16:53 · Score: 1

Windows XP live - Now with built in spyware!

--
This is another way of starting a sig with this and ending it with that.

Re:Missing options by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 17:34 · Score: 0

that's not linux, maybe if it was live windows CDs... wait, nevermind
at least you can pretend.

Where is d y n e : b o l i c ? by Artemis3 · 2005-02-01 16:54 · Score: 5, Informative

dynebolic is not debian based, its not knoppix based, its an original project! Meant for multimedia 64mb ram machines, and the xbox.

While knoppix each day has less and less apps, this one is getting more and more. And the machines which typically hang with knoppix (or knoppix based), even using all the "no" options, dynebolic loads happily. Not to mention 64mb ram machines, thankfully window maker based desktop for us in poor countries where these kind of machines abund.

--
Artix
Your Linux, your init.

Re:Where is d y n e : b o l i c ? by Zen+Punk · 2005-02-01 17:14 · Score: 1

Please explain to me how a LiveCD would work with an XBox. I assume it would need to be modded prior? If this is the case, than what advantages would this have over running an operating system from the HD?

--
Sleep is futile.
Re:Where is d y n e : b o l i c ? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-02 07:00 · Score: 0

Agree with whatever you said. dyne:bolic ROCKS.

Have to figure out if it can play my other DVDs (Mandrake community 10.1's kaffeine, xine all balk about the DECSS encryption encoder whatever...) and it will be the ULTIMATE distro for me.
Re:Where is d y n e : b o l i c ? by spaceman375 · 2005-02-02 16:15 · Score: 1

I booted Dynebolic once. It scrogged my 120gig SATA drive. I smashed the cd. I still have the iso, but it ain't going near any decent hardware.

--
On the one hand you take life too seriously, and on the other, you do not take playful existence seriously enough. Seth

So how many of these can... by smartsaga · 2005-02-01 16:54 · Score: 3, Insightful

replace a windows server that does file sharing, web server, ACLs, backup, that also can partition a hard drive, can authenticate using active directory, network configuration, email server with a minimal graphical desktop, that fits on a miniCD that if it is ever hacked all you do is restart the computer and the server is back to it's "clean" read only state.

If you have a "live" CD then updates take as little as burning the updated CD and rebooting the server with it. Configuration files can reside on a floppy to avoid unwanted changes, facilitate backups, etc. Processes can run on sandboxes to avoid total system compromise in case of a hack attack.

I mean, how many out there? Domainix sounds good but still needs a lot of typing. Not easy enough to brag about infront of windows only people. Slax has an add-on for samba and it is small enough... But how many out there??

If there would be one that does all that.. I would even pay for it!!!

Have a good one.

--
===== "Every head is a different world so don't invade mine you FREAK!" smartSAGA said

Re:So how many of these can... by HermanAB · 2005-02-01 18:20 · Score: 2, Interesting

Make one yourself! All you need is a 10GB partition and 2GB swap (Google cache of howto): http://tinyurl.com/4chb9

--
Oh well, what the hell...
Re:So how many of these can... by persaud · 2005-02-01 18:26 · Score: 1

You can put LIDS on such a live CD for intrusion rejection. Instead of booting from a physical CD, use PXE to pull the .iso from a private network. A server-oriented distro will fit in a 25-50Mb compressed filesystem. E.g. any member of a diskless cluster of LIDS-enabled reverse-proxy web servers can detect an attack, reboot from PXE and be back online in short order. You gain flexibility by having the boot image(s) on the private network (which can itself be running a live CD).

Have done this from scratch with RedHat, but there's now a live CD with LIDS, SELinux and UML: Adios. Haven't used Adios yet, but it's probably worth a look.

The RPM-based PLD Rescue CD is also a good starting point (though their web site is currently in flux).

As use of virtualization (VMware, UML, vserver, Virtuozzo) increases, it will be easier to view a virtual node as a combination of read-only boot image + configuration. VMware can even do magic with a read-only base disk image and multiple virtual machines having concurrent read-write access to increments to the base. Later updates to the ancestral base propagate to the virtual, composite 'child' images.
Re:So how many of these can... by mrchaotica · 2005-02-01 18:35 · Score: 3, Interesting

You don't want a liveCD; you want a tool to create a customized liveCD. Something like Catalyst, for instance.

That way you could have all (and only) the features you want, and you could go ahead and put your configuration files and served websites and whatnot on the CD itself instead of a floppy.

--
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Re:So how many of these can... by smartsaga · 2005-02-01 19:02 · Score: 1

Missed the point. I asked for one that already exists or that one does not have to goof around with. The idea is to move people from windows to linux not scare the heck outa them.

Thank you though.

--
===== "Every head is a different world so don't invade mine you FREAK!" smartSAGA said
Re:So how many of these can... by smartsaga · 2005-02-01 19:10 · Score: 1

So how would this attract people from the Windows side (dark side as I see it) to the Linux side (the bright side of course.)

Many IT people still need a little encouragement to even look at linux. It is sad but true. Why would I invest time in something that needs more time, and more time for customization?.

Thankfully I found Slax and dicovered that it has "Modules" and it is exactly what I was talking about. I know my english is not so... good. What the heck.

Anyways, Slax is what I was looking for. Easy to use and customize. I can actually recommend it to replace Windoze file servers. Heck, even web servers.

Have a good one and thatnk you for the ideas. I will look into that.

--
===== "Every head is a different world so don't invade mine you FREAK!" smartSAGA said
Re:So how many of these can... by smartsaga · 2005-02-01 19:16 · Score: 1

Gentoo is too MUCH WORK!!!! At least when it came to the Desktop install. I am not so concerned with optimizations and the like for performance. I have the time, enough computers even to leave one alone while it compiles and everything but I do not always keep the same computer for the same thing all the time. Servers change, application change and of course the needs that required that solution change. Why use Gentoo in my environment? This is why I mention soemthing such as a Live CD that if updated you just burn the new one, reboot server with it and done.

The idea is right. A modular LiveCD is what I want. Perhaps what most people might want. As I said to the other guys that repplied... Slax is what I wanted.

Thank you and have a good one.

--
===== "Every head is a different world so don't invade mine you FREAK!" smartSAGA said
Re:So how many of these can... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-02 02:50 · Score: 0

Well, the closest thing to a ready made CD that you can get to do all that you want, would be Mandrake Move, but really, if you have a specific application in mind - go ahead and make one. These special CDs are incredible in how they can make your life easier with specific problems. It is like building an embedded control system, without having to build any hardware.
Re:So how many of these can... by mrchaotica · 2005-02-02 02:52 · Score: 1

Well, I was under the assumption that you had several machines to install this on. If you're making the CD for just one computer then yeah, it might be too much work. But if you're installing the same thing on 50 computers (i.e., clients), it would be worth it. Besides, Catalyst is supposed to make it "easy" to make liveCDs (but I've never used it so I don't know if that's actually true).

Although, now that I think about it, the greatest strength of Gentoo is how easy it is to upgrade-in-place, so liveCD Gentoo would be vastly inferior to actually installing it on the hard drive.

In any case, although I forgot to mention it before, there's Debian From Scratch as well....

--
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

repeat after me.. by naelurec · 2005-02-01 16:54 · Score: 5, Funny

FreeBSD is NOT Linux!!

Seems like ever since Distrowatch started tracking FreeBSD, everyone seems to think that FreeBSD is just another Linux distro.

The Linux community should tar and feather those who mix up ye unholy non-GPL software with the almight GNU/Linux distros!! Down with Distrowatch! Down with OSNews and James LaRue!! hehe..

Re:repeat after me.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 19:54 · Score: 0

Oh to GNU or to BiNL... that is the question.
Re:repeat after me.. by ceeam · 2005-02-01 20:47 · Score: 1

Linux Is Not UniX.
GNU's Not Unix.
FreeBSD is. /me thinks they all are
Re:repeat after me.. by R.Caley · 2005-02-01 23:21 · Score: 1

FreeBSD is NOT Linux!!
It doesn't supprise me that some airhead on some Linux web site doesn't know that, but you'd think /. editors would have a clue. Now and again. Just to supprise us all.

--
_O_ .|< The named which can be named is not the true named
Re:repeat after me.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-02 01:48 · Score: 0

"The Linux community should tar and feather those who mix up ye unholy non-GPL software..."

It doesn't work that way....

GPL vs BSD only work one way....
BSD people doesn't like the GPL because they can't use the code under the BSD license.
GPL people doesn't have anything against BSD licensed code since it's GPL-compatible and all code can be included in the GPL project.

No reason to tar and feather the nice BSD folks who supply us with code. :)

Personally I like and use the GPL because it protects my rights to the code. BSD being more Buissness-friendly is plain FUD! If someone wants to use my code in their closed source product they can contact me after evaluating how much they value the code and give me a suggestion on how much money they want to offer me for the code under a different license.
Think of it as GPL is as shareware to the closed source world, while BSD is freeware. None of them is more or less "friendly" unless you value your friends after how much money they have. //fatal
Re:repeat after me.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-02 03:53 · Score: 0

> BSD people doesn't like the GPL because they can't use the code under the BSD license.

BSDs doesn't care about the GPL's code because if you ask anyone with a clue, you're going to know BSD code is better quality anyway. BSDs don't like the GPLs calling themselves Free, when they're not. That's it, plain and simple.

> If someone wants to use my code in their closed source product they can contact me after evaluating how much they value the code and give me a suggestion on how much money they want to offer me for the code under a different license.

Good for you!!! It's great to know you speak highly of the GPL "protecting" your rights, while you go and undermine its goals by relicensing it. You might as well use an EULA to achieve the same goal, and your rights would still be protected.

It's funny a license claims to be Free, but you need to relicense because it Is Not Free to begin with.

> None of them is more or less "friendly" unless you value your friends after how much money they have.

You've obviously understand Free totally. Congratulations and please continue to use whatever you want, especially the GPL. Nobody from the BSD will care.
Re:repeat after me.. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-02 04:42 · Score: 0

ITYM tar, gzip and feather.

Who needs Linux ... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 16:56 · Score: 0

when you can have the super 1337 OSX desktop that's the most advanced OSX in the whole Universe?

wait a minute, Live CDs? "Live"? nevermind, that's creepy. /bashing images of squirming CDs from head

of course... by nuggetman · 2005-02-01 16:58 · Score: 1

18 live linux CDs! my computer ran 18 live linux CDs! ...in a row?

hey! try not to recompile any kernels on the way through the parking lot! hey... get back here!

--
...and that's all there is to it.

Re:of course... by Dj+Stingray · 2005-02-01 17:22 · Score: 1

I feel so noxious...

Gentoo Live CD by colonslashslash · 2005-02-01 16:59 · Score: 3, Interesting

NavyNOS is actually a pretty good Live CD based on Gentoo. I've not used it a great deal, but enough to tell you that the default WM is fluxbox with a sleek theme and background, and it comes with an installer script to make a Gentoo HD install alot quicker for those who are concerned about it.

GUI frontends for partition editing, portage (Porthole IIRC) and the Gentoo file browser are there by default on top of the usual suspects and a few extra net/security apps.

We have a torrent up for it here if anyone is interested:
The Linux Mirror Project - NavyNos 2005.01 torrent

Homepage here:
http://navynos.linux.pl/

This is the only Gentoo based Live CD that I'm aware of, if anyone knows of another, please enlighten me.

--
She's built like a steak house, but she handles like a bistro....

Re:Gentoo Live CD by koreaman · 2005-02-01 18:51 · Score: 1

The gentoo installation CD (minimal or full, but if you are using it as a liveCD minimal is best) is a perfectly good live CD, albeit without X.

--
Le français vous intéresse?
Re:Gentoo Live CD by Okneff · 2005-02-01 23:43 · Score: 1

There is another one: jollix
Not very active project at the moment, most is in german and we (the two maintainers) currently have not much time work on it. Drop us a note, maybe we can share our experience.

Linux? by NEOtaku17 · 2005-02-01 17:02 · Score: 2, Informative

If anyone is looking for a Unix alternative to Linux I definitely recommend trying FreeSBIE. You can learn the way of the BSD without messing with your current install.

Surf on over here for the torrent file.

--
Creative Demolition

Re:Having a tough time getting worked up over this by tmbg37 · 2005-02-01 17:02 · Score: 1

I'd have to agree with you there. I'm using Mac OS X right now, after having gone from window manager to window manager, and distribution to distribution. I realized that OS X was everything that I was looking for in a desktop operating system. The GUI is sufficiently prettyful and fun to use for me, and the FreeBSD base makes the geek in me happy. The fact that it costs money is an issue, but hey, you get what you pay for.

I'm not saying though that Linux is useless, I run it on a server of mine and it's great for that, I just think that in it's current state it's not all that cut out for the desktop.

--
This comment was thought up very late at night and does not necessarily reflect my views at a more reasonable hour.

Live and eighteen.... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 17:03 · Score: 0

I was expecting something totally different when I read those words.

Live Linux CD for the Mac? by ufoman · 2005-02-01 17:05 · Score: 0

Anyone know of a good live linus CD for the mac? I have a iMac G3 I would love to test it on.

--
The following statement is false.
The previous statement is true.
Welcome to my world.

Re:Live Linux CD for the Mac? by Puggs · 2005-02-01 19:42 · Score: 1

Ubuntu/Gnoppix.
hoary_0.9.90b1-powerpc.iso runs ok on my g4 pb, but at 640x480 instead of the native 1024x768
Its by far the best live linux ppc cd I've tried (which are most (if not all) of them)
afaik you cant install from here, but i havent looked properly.

18? thats nothing by beeswax · 2005-02-01 17:06 · Score: 1

Here is a list of many livecds for those who are interested. There are many flavors to choose from.

http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php

Re:18? thats nothing by pureone · 2005-02-02 04:00 · Score: 1

i have over 30 differnt live cds my most fave is kanotix (based on knoppix but with better hardware support)

--
120 chars is not bloody enough for a real sig!!! you bastards even count spaces!!!

What i would love to have on a linux live cd by marty_one · 2005-02-01 17:09 · Score: 2, Interesting

The ability to have an entire operating system work fairly well off a cd without having to load anything on the hard drive is an impressive feat. I have had a look at a couple of live distro's that i though would of met my needs but there are still one thing lacking that would be really nice to have especially on the ones that are designed specifically for a graphical work station. The thing that I would love to see is the inclusion of KPovModeller plus povray rendering engine. If this was included then I would be set. Is there any live distro's around that have KPovModeller installed in them? I have looked around and tried a few not had this particular program.

Re:What i would love to have on a linux live cd by lachlan76 · 2005-02-01 18:28 · Score: 1

Just remaster Knoppix yourself, and put on whatever programs you want.

minimalistic w/ firefox for shopping? by failedlogic · 2005-02-01 17:13 · Score: 2, Informative

I'm looking for a minimalist distro w/ a faster boot time. I don't need 99% of the apps on many distros ... I would just like one w/ firefox to do on-line banking and shopping.

I've been usin Slax and a few others 250 MB but often it takes over 5 minutes to load. This is, virtually the same result on a P3 800 w 640 MB RAM to a 3 GHz A64 w/ 1 GIG RAM. The CD drive is a Lite-on combo @ 40 x or higher read speed.

Ideas?

Re:minimalistic w/ firefox for shopping? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 17:27 · Score: 0

This should have what you need http://www.livecd.net/. They are made for kiosk type operations using firefox. Morphix based.
Re:minimalistic w/ firefox for shopping? by setagllib · 2005-02-01 20:55 · Score: 1

Well, X and Firefox aren't exactly small. Would ELinks in a large framebuffer be enough for your needs? That would take a LOT less resources and especially loading times.

--
Sam ty sig.
Re:minimalistic w/ firefox for shopping? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-02 01:24 · Score: 0

I would just like one w/ firefox to do on-line banking and shopping.
It's OK, you can say "I don't want to leave porn on my parents' computer". You're among friends here.

Linux on grandma's desktop? by shoolz · 2005-02-01 17:19 · Score: 1, Troll

Troll warning... I'm not trying to be an ass, but this is the type of thing that keeps me from even dipping my toe in the open source OS water. I would love nothing more than to dump my overpriced OS and use a freebie... but I'm scared sh*tless at the overwhelming number of options. Now, I've been a power user since I was 12 (19 years ago), but the thought of trying to figure out which of the umpteen options are right for me is just downright scary.

Mod me down as you see fit, but I'd prefer you didn't.

Re:Linux on grandma's desktop? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 17:41 · Score: 0

if you want to try out linux, I strongly recommend knoppix. It is a live cd, so it wont touch your harddrive unless you specifically, ask it to. It has great hardware support and works with most hardware configurations and also comes with a bunch of software including an office suite, and web browsers. Whats really nice, is that it all runs of cd, so you start knoppix, by booting of cd and after you are finished can return to windows, and best ofa ll your machine is unaffected. Oh, I should mention, its user friendly too.
Re:Linux on grandma's desktop? by emurphy42 · 2005-02-01 17:51 · Score: 1

This sounds like yet another case of "'perfect' is the enemy of 'good'".
Don't worry about which of the umpteen options is best. Try out as many or as few as you like, and pick one that seems to be good enough.
I'm running Red Hat 9 and Gnome 2.2 (with a couple of dockapps hacked in via gnome-swallow). Sure, I'd like to have apt-get and gDesklets and more flexible panels - if I got a new computer tomorrow, I'd put Ubuntu on it - but my current arrangement works pretty well.
(I do have Synaptic installed, but the underlying RPM database is slightly borked, and I have insufficient incentive to fix it. Many things install just fine via RPM; those that don't, I live without.)
Re:Linux on grandma's desktop? by violajack · 2005-02-01 17:59 · Score: 1

I was in that position a few years ago. I wanted to try something other than windows, but only had one computer to work with, and didn't want to screw it up. I tried the SuSE-live eval, but it didn't get along with my laptop very well. I had seen RedHat back in the day (around version 5.something). I don't remember why I decided against it, but I did.

I wound up with Madrake. It was the only one (at the time) that promised to non-destructively resize my ntfs partition during install, which it did quite nicely. I liked it well enough and then got used to it. Becuase it was the first linux I really used a lot, it just feels like "the way things should be". I think it's an easy transition for someone used to windows because there is a graphical control panel to take care of most of the system stuff, just like the control panel in windows.

Of course someone else will come along and tell us how much better some other disto is, but Mandrake worked for me, and I think it's a good choice for a competent windows user.
Re:Linux on grandma's desktop? by The+MESMERIC · 2005-02-01 18:00 · Score: 1

just speak your mind
don't apologize
don't fear the ratings
if some stupid moderator mods you down - so be it.
Re:Linux on grandma's desktop? by adler187 · 2005-02-01 18:02 · Score: 3, Informative

There is no way to find the right Linux distro for you unless you try some out and that is the beauty of these Live cd's. When looking for a new car do you get overwhelmed because there are about 5 bajillion different make/model/options when looking for a car? A computer is the same, you must do some research and do some test driving first. First of all writeups like these should be of some help to you though you might also want to find a friend or someone you know that uses Linux and get their opinion. Obviously since you are a "power user" you should be able to handle it just fine.

For some recomendations I would check out SLAX and Ubunutu (Live cd download is here

I personally use SUSE, but their Live-CD sucks. If you decide to go with a KDE based distro that is what I would choose. If you like GNOME more I would go with Ubuntu. Also, although a lot of people seem to like Knoppix, I have never really liked it too much (mostly because of the messy menu structure). So there you go, try them out. What have you got to lose (besides some time downloading, bandwidth, and a couple blank cd's)?
Re:Linux on grandma's desktop? by cwg_at_opc · 2005-02-01 18:04 · Score: 3, Interesting

what we need is a quickie questionaire that helps you decide which distro suits your needs, then burns the ISO for you, sort of like the weird quizes on bbspot.com only serious.

--
"...that's as white as it gets; all the bits are on..."
Re:Linux on grandma's desktop? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 19:26 · Score: 0

If you aren't intelligent enough to figure out how to "dip your toe" in the OSS waters there's no way you've been a "power user" for 19 years.

NO FUCKING WAY!

Sorry.
Re:Linux on grandma's desktop? by pureone · 2005-02-02 04:11 · Score: 1

its funny you say knoppixs menu is messy because i feel that ubunutu has a messy / ugly look to it. but everyone has there own tastes. im more of a kde fan then a gnome fan. but thats what makes linux great the fact that you can have so many differnt choices. wtf is with this topic title???

--
120 chars is not bloody enough for a real sig!!! you bastards even count spaces!!!

three more by zogger · 2005-02-01 17:23 · Score: 1

three more nice ones of the mini live cd variety are feather, puppy and one I just tried and liked a lot called austrumi.

Re:Can a .22 rifle shoot though 18 Live Linux CDs? by dabigpaybackski · 2005-02-01 17:23 · Score: 1

What kind, African or European?

--
"OH SHIT, THERE'S A HORSE IN THE HOSPITAL!"

Correction by firefly2442 · 2005-02-01 17:27 · Score: 1

Actually, Damn Small Linux is based off Knoppix which is based off Debian. Minor correction. :)

FREE TEEKID! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 17:29 · Score: 0

Free Teekid! First amendments@@!@

Re:FREE TEEKID! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-02 12:21 · Score: 0

WTF is teekid anyways?

FreeBSD is obviously dying! (obligatory troll) by Joseph_Daniel_Zukige · 2005-02-01 17:35 · Score: 1

There's only one live freeBSD CD in this roundup of live Linux CDs!

and on and on ad nauseum

DSL by sconeu · 2005-02-01 17:37 · Score: 1

Had a cluster I was setting up. Didn't have a list of the MAC addresses to set up the DHCP server on the master node.

Popped a copy of DSL into a USB CDROM, and BAM!

Luckily, it was only a 10 node cluster....

But DSL booted up quick fast, and found the onboard ethernet. Ran ifconfig, and I was done.

I really like it.

--
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.

Re:DSL by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 17:54 · Score: 0

One thing that is very nice about DSL is that they have an unzip and run distribution for Windows. It uses QEMU (You can do this for any distribution but these guys have the emulator bundled and the batch file set up). It is THE most simplest way to test drive Linux. This is simpler than a Live CD. You can go back to Windows anytime. It is hard to do any damage to you system and you can easily roll back. Of course I would not use it for any real work this way but I think it is a great thing to introduce to Windows users. Be sure to tell them that they should expect more performance and choice from a real installation.

I think this distribution should be recommended on all Newbie Linux tutorials/books.

Gentoo by NEOtaku17 · 2005-02-01 17:38 · Score: 0

If you looking for a live CD for use with PPC you should check out Gentoo Live CD

They have versions for the G3, G4, G5, and other PPC chips.

--
Creative Demolition

Re:Gentoo by ufoman · 2005-02-01 18:50 · Score: 0

I don't see what to download? The G3/G4/G5 folders are empty.

--
The following statement is false.
The previous statement is true.
Welcome to my world.

A strawman! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 17:39 · Score: 3, Insightful

"A new user moving from Windows shouldn't have to know (or care) if they use KDE/Gnome/Fluxbox/etc or 2.4.x/2.6.x. They should just be able to use a machine and be done with it."

Don't you see, new users don't need to care! Pick any good, general distro and install it for them. Don't talk about KDE vs. GNOME. Don't talk about 2.4 vs. 2.6. They will use the one that is installed and be happy!

You (and many Linux advocates) create an issue that does not matter to the new user, and then claim that it hampers Linux acceptance. The only reason in hampers is because WE (Linux advocates and attackers) WON'T SHUTUP about it.

My brother wanted to try Linux. I gave him a Knoppix CD. He was impressed and happy. KDE vs. GNOME did not come up even once! He'll learn about all the choice after he has some experience with what he thinks is the only choice.

Oh, I dunno by jd · 2005-02-01 17:42 · Score: 2, Insightful

When you consider that different people want different things out of their computer, it makes perfect sense to have many flavours. That's the same reason there are so many car manufacturers, and indeed why many of those produce multiple models at the same time.

A given car manufacturer may easily produce a subcompact, a compact or mini, a regular car, a hatchback, a saloon and/or an SUV, with anywhere from zero to infinite customizations and extras, in budget, standard and luxury price ranges.

True, it would be a little unusual for a single company to produce ALL of the above, and release new, updated models every few weeks, but it would not be outside the range of variation that exists.

However, when you consider a car, there aren't many things you really want such a device for. You might want to go from A to B, carry cargo, look flashy, win races at the local club circuit or get laid (unless you're a geek, in which case this doesn't happen anywhere, whether you have a car or not).

The range of applications for a computer is considerably greater. As such, the need for special customization is also greater. Unlike car dealers, distribution dealers tend to work with entirely pre-packaged goods. (One of these days, I intend to release a distro which is much closer to the car dealership / personalization model, without getting into the extreme of Gentoo, which is like customization by buying your own autoparts store.)

Because customization is much harder, using the pre-packaged model, you end up having to get this degree of flexibility by having more distributions.

(Even with that said, there are probably still far more car manufacturers, especially if you include all the motor racing teams, than there are Linux, *BSD, AT&T Unix, Plan9/Inferno, MIT Exokernel, Mach, HURD and *DOS distributions out there, combined. On that basis, I'd say there's actually lots of room for expansion. The only absolute rule I think should be applied is that distros should be clear about what they do and don't do, the same way you don't buy a Jeep in the hope of winning a NASCAR or Formula 1 event.)

P.S. I managed to write the whole of this post AND read the first couple of chapters of the latest revision of the Linux Kernel book by R. Love, all before the next pre-release came out. Either I'm speeding up, or the kernel developers are slowing down.

--
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)

No, you don't figure out which is right for you by Joseph_Daniel_Zukige · 2005-02-01 17:44 · Score: 1

Instead of trading in your hardware next time, you keep the slightly old box and just pick a distro at random and jump right in!

Then you pick another and play with that for a while.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

And then you're no longer scared, and maybe even don't care which one is "right" cause you're having too much fun.

--
Walk right in, sit right down, daddy let your mind go 'round.

Re:No, you don't figure out which is right for you by blackomegax · 2005-02-01 19:29 · Score: 1

thats...not my idea of fun. aka... say you start with mandrake..all nice and fluffy. then you try suse.. all nice and fluffy again then you try gentoo..and you spend 5 days straight simply installing it because you had no frelling clue. (that plus the install times, especially of suse ftp)
Re:No, you don't figure out which is right for you by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 22:24 · Score: 0

Excuse me for asking, but if the idea of learning something new doesn't sound very interesting to you, what are you doing on Slashdot? Are you a pretend Geek? I don't get it.
Re:No, you don't figure out which is right for you by blackomegax · 2005-02-02 00:32 · Score: 1

its not that i dont enjoy learning. its just that sitting around testing linux distro's one after another isnt learning unless something beyond the experience of it is teaching you anything..like an outside guide. most distro's are poorly documented in a pragmatic sense. i mean, im learning alot from using suse..and it gets alot of things "right". but linux has never exactly satisfied the "end-user" in me that grew up using windows. picking ONE distro and rolling with it is the best way to LEARN. but to USE, steam rolling them all without live-cd's is just..tedious and frivilous. you end up comparing apples and oranges to your end-userized needs and you get confused very quickly in most cases.

Yea, read here by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 17:45 · Score: 0

Your machine might run faster if you took off your tinfoil hat.

emerge GnoppixUbuntu? by Kesh · 2005-02-01 17:48 · Score: 1

So, wait, Gnoppix and Ubuntu are... what now? The Gnoppix page isn't exactly informative.

What exactly happened, and what does it mean to those of us looking to try one of their live CDs?

Re:emerge GnoppixUbuntu? by AlXtreme · 2005-02-02 06:14 · Score: 2, Informative

Beats me. Seems like they will merge (or only be different in branding) once Andreas releases a stable version based on Hoary. He now works for Ubuntu/Canonical, but his current stable version still is Warty/Morphix-based.
I got the same offer from Mark, to more-or-less merge Morphix and Ubuntu, but decided not to do it. Oh well, free world et al. And it means one liveCD less to try out (either one or the other :)

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obligatory redundant troll by Joseph_Daniel_Zukige · 2005-02-01 17:50 · Score: 1

FreeBSD is dying!

There's only one live freeBSD CD in this roundup of live Linux CDs. That proves freeBSD is dying!

(I'd have posted this anonymous for effect, but for some reason /. isn't allowing anonymous posts from my IP these days. I don't think I've been trolling ...)

Somoene said: by opweirdisntit · 2005-02-01 17:52 · Score: 0

"It would be nice for a distribution to choose the best programs out there and just include those select few, with much better organization. How do you find an MP3 player in Fedora? It's not that clear or simple. List common functions "I want an MP3 player", "I want a spreadsheet program", "I want a graphics program", and it list all appropriate programs." Said the man. Meet Ubuntu Linux said the other. :P

great...fragmentation by hyperstation · 2005-02-01 17:54 · Score: 1

it's wonderful that everyone is working on new linux products, but wouldn't it be nice if everyone could contribute to one or two *really* good distros, come up with a decent UI and blow everyone away?

no they don't by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 17:56 · Score: 0

those folders are empty!

yeah but by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 17:58 · Score: 0

does it run linux?

Re:Having a tough time getting worked up over this by Mr.+Slippery · 2005-02-01 18:00 · Score: 1

The fact that it costs money is an issue, but hey, you get what you pay for.

The issue isn't money. The issue is freedom.

--
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood

ms livecd by torrents · 2005-02-01 18:02 · Score: 1

microsoft should make a livecd... that way getting un-pwned would always be a reset button away for n00bs

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Get your torrents...

Re:ms livecd by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 18:58 · Score: 1, Informative

Microsoft has one it is called WinPE
Tools: Microsoft Windows Preinstallation Environment
You can't have it unless you qualify for the license.

For mere mortals that want a M$ based live CD there is BartPE which is not M$ endorsed. It uses you Windows XP or Windows 2003 Server CD to build the Live CD. There is also an option to extract the files from your current install on your system if the place you bought it from opted not to give out an install disk.
Bart's Preinstalled Environment (BartPE) bootable live windows CD/DVD

I've used BartPE to rescue important files off several Windows XP Pro systems hosed by SP2 (thanks M$). Knoppix works very well for this task too. The fun part of using Knoppix is the owners of the computers can see how cool a GNU/Linux can be. In a few cases the owners asked for a copy of Knoppix to play around with afterwards.

OpenBSD may not be Linux but if someone should make a LiveCD for assuming one isn't out there already. Secure by default LiveCD would be a nice warm and fuzzy.
Re:ms livecd by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 19:42 · Score: 2, Informative

Microsoft doesn't make a commercial livecd BUT there is a boot cd that runs a custom Windows PE environment called Bart's PE http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/ With the addition of the XPE plugin http://sourceforge.net/projects/winpe/ and some tweaking you can have an almost fully fuctional Windows XP desktop from a live cd.
Re:ms livecd by pureone · 2005-02-02 04:15 · Score: 1

microsoft would never bring out a live cd unless someone was to get knoppix on the news like cnn,bbc etc. give erm a run for there money. :D

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120 chars is not bloody enough for a real sig!!! you bastards even count spaces!!!

Choice of Name?! by quantaman · 2005-02-01 18:05 · Score: 1

Basilisk (based on Fedora)

Okay, so it's not OS X but "kills you when you look at it" is exaggerating just a bit and not exactly the best impression you want to give people :)

Honestly, when it comes to looks I've seen far worse!

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I stole this Sig

ESR NEWSBREAK! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 18:06 · Score: 0

now this news.

Eric Raymond has excused himself from the management of the OSI. This is like Thomas Jefferson not declaring himself King! Hail to ESR lol LOL!!!

ESR did not pull the King of Nepal Maneuver!!! LOL LOL

Freedom Lives! LOL LOL

Eighteen and Live? Wasn't that a Skid Row song? by psykocrime · 2005-02-01 18:07 · Score: 1

Ricky was a young penguin, he had a heart of ice.
Lived 0 to 255 and coded his fingers to the bone.
Just barely got out of school, came from the edge of Stanford.
Fought like a router so no one could take him down.
He had no patents, oooh no good at home.
He surfed the 'net a soldier and he fought the world alone
And now it's

18 and live you got it
18 and live you know
Your crime is time and it's
18 and live to go
(repeat above)

TCP in his heartbeat, his veins burned HTTP.
It kept his browser running but it never kept him clean.
They say he loved Microsoft, ricky's the wild one.
He married trouble and had a courtship with Bill.
Bang bang shoot 'em up, the lawsuit never ends.
You can't think of dying when RMS's your best friend
And now it's

18 and live you got it
18 and live you know
Your crime is time and it's
18 and live to go
(repeat above)

Accidents will happen they all heard ricky say
He fired his IPv6 to the wind that blew a segment away.

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// TODO: Insert Cool Sig

Re:Eighteen and Live? Wasn't that a Skid Row song? by WoBIX · 2005-02-01 18:51 · Score: 1

I don't know which is worse...

Being a Skid Row fan, or writing songs about Linux.

Not that I have anything against Linux. :)

TROLL ALERT by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 18:08 · Score: 0

The link leads to some sort of goatse-like picture. NSFW, without doubt.

Remastering LiveCDs by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 18:09 · Score: 0

Cecil Watson will giving a talk at the Southern California Linux Expo (SCALE 3x) on February 12-13th about how to go about remastering LiveCDs such as Knoppix. Cecil is maintainer of KnoppMyth, a Knoppix distribution customized for use as a Linux based PVR with MythTV. If you want to check on the KnoppMyth LiveCD Cecil will be demoing it at the KnoppMyth booth. A free exhibit hall pass can be obtained with the promo code "FREE" or for a discount on a full access pass use the code "NEWSP"

Atheros support? For real? by drwho · 2005-02-01 18:09 · Score: 1

Are any of these proven working with Atheros AR5212 chipset cards, notable the the D-link DWL-AG520? In hostap mode? and stable? Because that's what I've been trying to set up today.

Snøfrix. by Alex+Brasetvik · 2005-02-01 18:11 · Score: 1

Missing on that list is "Snøfrix" (just in Norwegian), a Live-CD to introduce Linux to Norwegian school kids.

Snøfrix has gained quite some popularity recently, as quite a few libraries are now distributing Snøfrix, in addition to it being mentioned in the largest Norwegian TV channel (NRK), on a program dedicated to protecting consumers right -- this time comparing Linux to Windows.

The name is a mix of "Knoppix" upon which is it based, and "Snøfrix", the name of the 11 (or so) year old daughter of its creator, deciding what should be on the CD.

It recently won NUUG's (Norwegian Unix User Group) price for promotion of free software (only in Norwegian too :( ) as well.

Linspire Live by DeathPenguin · 2005-02-01 18:12 · Score: 1

Interesting how Linspire Live didn't get any mention. It's a formidible force in the desktop market and certainly deserves mention even if it doesn't exactly conform to some peoples' ideas of a "true" GNU/Linux distro.

Re:Having a tough time getting worked up over this by GreyWolf3000 · 2005-02-01 18:12 · Score: 1

No offense, but if simply knowing that a lot of code was taken from BSD satisfies the "geek" in you, then it would stand to reason that even Windows would satisfy the "geek" in you.

Actually, it is I who ought to be offended, because I wish I were less of a geek. OS X just isn't geeky enough for me.

--
Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.

And the left out the best one!! by psykocrime · 2005-02-01 18:13 · Score: 1

GNUStep LiveCD - the coolest live CD of them all. Boot this bad boy up and enjoy the experience...

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// TODO: Insert Cool Sig

Re:Having a tough time getting worked up over this by mrchaotica · 2005-02-01 18:24 · Score: 1

It's not about how much code was taken from BSD; it's about having a UNIX command line. The OS X Terminal is a beautiful thing (especially since it's got transparency!). : )

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"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

[tt] Re:Lacking a Major Player? by nocomment · 2005-02-01 18:24 · Score: 2, Funny

Also, wouldn't FreeSBIE be considered a "dead" cd?

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/* oops I accidentally made a comment, sorry */
/* http://allyourbasearebelongto.us */

Re:[tt] Re:Lacking a Major Player? by paulatz · 2005-02-01 21:40 · Score: 1

From the article:
FreeSBIE, based on Free BSD and bundled with Xfce, is intriguing, but I couldn't get it to talk to the wireless network, or to print. It also crashed my system twice. But I'd be willing to check it out again sometime.

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this post contain no useful information, no need to mod it down

18 different distros... by rich42 · 2005-02-01 18:28 · Score: 1

this is either the best thing about linux...

...or with the worst thing about linux...

I love it when I apply for various jobs... "you've got Redhat Enterprise experience? Well - we were really looking for someone with a Slackware or Mandrake background. You haven't worked with Shitzu or Slurm, have you?"

Imagine how far FireFox would've gotten if there were 18 different versions...

Re:18 different distros... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 18:34 · Score: 0

there are plenty different versions:

Mozilla
Netscape
Camino
Firefox
Mosiac

History of industry by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 18:29 · Score: 2, Insightful

When automobiles (you know, cars) were first invented and becoming popular, there were, literally, hundreds of automobile manufacturers in the US alone. Hundreds. How is the average (rich) Joe to choose?

Fast forward to now. Auto manufacturing is a mature industry with only a few US manufacturers and a few more world wide.

Linux has been around, as a viable desktop OS for, oh, let's be generous, 5 years. Because it is not created and controlled by a monopoly, it is still a vibrant, changing market place with no clear leaders that can completely dominate. On top of that, FS/OSS principles make it hard to dominate!

Yet, you want, somehow, magically, some "higher power" to declare what a Linux distro should be and look like. You'd remove the natural shakeout provided by the market place as it matures and the freedom built into the FS licenses just to force a "one (or 3 or 4) size fits all"?

You people that argue for this "one and only" Linux have no answer as to how to bring it about. It's ironic because the freedom loving Linux people who want choice are called communists or socialists and the "give me only one" crowd want to eliminate choice. The only way to eliminate choice is to surrender it to an authoritarian power.

Go surrender. I'll stay here with my vibrant, exciting, amazingly creative choices!

Re:History of industry by jacksonj04 · 2005-02-01 22:48 · Score: 1

I don't think it's about reducing choice, it's about making the choices work together.

If, for example, I knew that *every* application stored all its config files in the same format and the same directory, then it would make it a damn sight easier to admin a system. Likewise, if I know that a particular switch affects all text handling applications in the same way, wonderful!

There will never be a 'one and only Linux', but there can certainly be a way to make sure I don't need different Debian, Red-Hat, Gentoo, Slack, SuSE, Mandrake and Fedora packages for the same thing (which undoubtedly store things in different places, and need recompiling to deal with a quirk due to the fact you're using KDE and not Gnome).

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How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?

LiveCD for VirtualPC/QEMU? by iamacat · 2005-02-01 18:41 · Score: 1

I tried to boot knoppix and it took half an hour to decompress itself and then came up in 640x480x16 color mode. Is there any distro that goes easy on my imaginary Intel hardware? Ideally, it should have GNUStep with development tools. I want to see if I can let more people run my programs :-) DVD would be Ok. I have lots of space for ISO images.

No mention of Helix by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 18:42 · Score: 0

http://www.e-fense.com/helix/Helix is a forensics LiveCD, comes with a bunch of great apps, and as their web-site says, http://www.sans.org/ SANS uses their liveCD for their forensics training. Pretty cool if you ask me.

CDs on the wall... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 18:46 · Score: 0

"18 Live Linux CDs -- In A Row"

18 Live Linux CDs In A Row, 18 Live Linux CDs. Take one down and distribute it around. 1800 Live Linux CDs In A Row, 1800 Live Linux CDs ...

Since when is FreeBSD Linux? by Prien715 · 2005-02-01 18:58 · Score: 1

As someone else once said, if calling it a review is a stretch, what is calling FreeSBIE a Linux Live CD?

OSS OS Live CDs? Though OS SOS CDs may be appropriate as well, especially since Knoppix seems to work well for that purpose.

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-- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.

Since when FreeBSD is a Linux flavor? by romania · 2005-02-01 19:00 · Score: 0

In the list I find "FreeSBIE (based on Free BSD)"... but the article is named Linux LiveCD.

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The article's four main reasons to use a live CD by Snuggly_Soft · 2005-02-01 19:00 · Score: 1

...left out a very important reason, IMO. A live CD is the best way to show a Linux neophite what Linux is like. Because there's no installation, there's no worry. I've converted three windows users by showing them MandrakeMove on thier machines.

Re:Can a .22 rifle shoot though 18 Live Linux CDs? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 19:02 · Score: 0

Guns are eeevil.

Smoke more weed.

END TRANSMISSION

Other uses by Alapapa · 2005-02-01 19:17 · Score: 1, Informative

Linux LiveCD's are great for more that I've seen mentioned here:

Disaster Recovery - I've become fond of the (R)ecovery (I)s (P)ossible Linux rescue system
He even publishes a PXE image!

Troubleshooting - To quickly determine if a problem is hardware or software related, boot from a LiveCD

Highly customizable imaging and installation solutions

Re:Having a tough time getting worked up over this by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 19:18 · Score: 0

Turn gay did ya? ; )

hmmm by mrselfdestrukt · 2005-02-01 19:21 · Score: 1

Sooo, why do they call it Live distributions instead of just run-straight-off-the-cd-with-no-hassles-distributi ons?
BTW: I have a dead disto of win 98.

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"I used to have that really cool,funny sig ,but it got stolen."

I'm running Ubuntu live right now! by MrP-(at+work) · 2005-02-01 19:22 · Score: 1

My PSU, which has been giving me problems for years (voltage flucations.. +5V always running in the 4.xx area for example), has gotten worse lately

Last month, occasionally my drive would click off then spin up and lock up my pc.. the power was dropping too low

I just ordered a new psu today and a voltage regulator today.. then a few hours later my hard drive shut off like before.. usually rebooting fixes.. well it didnt this time, the PSU is gone.. but not gone enough that I cant run Ubuntu from my cdrom drive

so here i am, running Ubuntu.. i was able to go on to the site i ordered my new psu and change the shipping from ground to overnight.. so i should have my new psu tomorrow instead of the 11th

yay ubuntu

p.s. what happens when i run out of free ram using a live linux cd?

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Too many brands. by Vo0k · 2005-02-01 19:30 · Score: 2, Insightful

On the other hand, there's way too many brands of coffee. I go to a supermarket and I stand in front of a shelf with coffee for 7 hours, unable to decide. In the morning I go to a resturant to have my morning coffee, they hand me a menu, and I see 15 different brands. Before I choose one, they excuse me, they are closing and it's evening. I even planned switching to tea because of that problem, but once I entered a chineese tea shop and nearly died from dehydration.

My friend says "Why don't you just pick one at random, or try a bit of each to decide on your favourite, or read some reviews to pick one that appeals to you best?" but if I did, what kind of moron clueless coffee drinker would they take me for?

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Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"

Linux Newbie question by Adrilla · 2005-02-01 19:42 · Score: 1

Does Linux and it's programs utilize dual processors (PIII) well. (I know that if i'm here on /. I should know this already. But please, be gentle, It's my first time.)

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"Plans are for fools! Oglethorpe, the plutonian (Aqua Teen Hunger Force)

Re:Linux Newbie question by Adrilla · 2005-02-01 19:45 · Score: 1

PS: what distro would you recommend.

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"Plans are for fools! Oglethorpe, the plutonian (Aqua Teen Hunger Force)

Which ones are deb unstable? by Sark666 · 2005-02-01 19:47 · Score: 1

I know morphix is, but a lot of em seem to use mixed sources or their own.

Could someone list the ones that are if they know. This is with the intent of a hd install.

I wish it didn't matter but as great a pkg mgt debian has, it doesn't seem to be able to gracefully make the transition from one/mixed sources to another.

Or least that was my experience in trying to get knoppix installed and converted to sid.

Re:Having a tough time getting worked up over this by gad_zuki! · 2005-02-01 19:53 · Score: 1

Lets face it, the skills linux demand (that is if you want to do anything but view webpages and read email) is elitist while OSX is populist. This is why so many people arent excited by a nice free server OS or a OS with lots of free developers tools. They want to do other things than code or be part of the ill-defined and (for the non-techy) bewildering open source movement.

I'm much more excited to see a very affordable mac offered by apple. All this anti-MS agnst should be helping a corporate competitor who can deliver the goods, especially the in the application department (iLife alone is worth the price of admission). Lets face it, many popular OSS projects are clones of stuff commercial developers innovated anyway. If people really want to revolutionize the desktop, then its fairly obvious linux isnt catching on like so many predicted it would by now and its time to try to get Joe Sixpack trying something else if he wants to get away from windows.

Maybe someday there will be a year of the linux desktop, maybe not, but in the meantime I like turning people onto Apple's offerings when they complain about their wintel box instead of telling them to download an iso and learn some very arcane command line skills and then after getting sick of the learning curve and the lack of commercial apps they give-up and reinstall XP. Nor do I want to be their full-time sysadmin for the *nix machine. Way too many "my gf/grandma/dog uses linux" stories ignore the time and effort put in by the evangelist to admin these machines or configure them to make them semi-fool proof.

Linux, like OS X is very much a niche product, but I'm much more comfortable going to bat to get people (ordinary people, not techies) on mac machines than I am getting them to go the linux route.

Why does everybody want to steal XP users? by al912912 · 2005-02-01 20:08 · Score: 1

Perhaps the Linux community should get together and make a serious effort at a unified "desktop" launch. Personally, I think it'd go a long way towards getting more people off XP and involved in Open Source, all these fractured distros aren't really helping

I use linux because it's a damn good system with which I have a lot of fun. Some people may use it because it is more secure, because they want to restrict user priviledges, because they love open source, or any other reason. Some people do projects to imporive linux because they want to add an extra feuture that would make it a better system. But it is pretty damn sad when anybody does anything just to get MS users or to attack MS.

We have a great system, we enjoy it, it is great. I don't care of converting any Windows user. I like my Linux, I appreciate every effort anybody does to improve it, but Linux can stand by itself as a system which is a good one, and has nothing to do with MS. It's just about making a good system we like, not to fuck anybody else.

FreeBSD is Dead.. by Hyperhaplo · 2005-02-01 20:14 · Score: 0

.. and has been reincarnated as a LiveCD! Yay!

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SimpleLinux by WinterpegCanuck · 2005-02-01 20:15 · Score: 2, Interesting

[Insert image of penguin riding bicycle with training wheels]

While I agree that an imposed linux distro would spoil the flavour of the movement, I think there is a solution for "Joe Six Pack." One of the reasons that windows works so well is that there is simple choices; one calculator, one text editor, one RTF editor, one paint program, etc. All simple programs, by no means that strong, but if someone wants to type a quick letter, write.exe is the choice (we are talking default programs, so winword.exe doesn't count ;-)

A simple distro, with one program for each task (and limit the tasks, not everyone needs to calculate the astronomical position of the earth on April 4, 2063), just sort of a starter version. Gets people used to the GUI (doesn't matter which one, just the fact that it is non-windows gets them thinking outside the microbox) file structure, etc. Base it off a standard distro so when they get used to it and braver, they can easilly add all the other choices and options and spread their wings a bit.

With less programs, bootable from a cd, maybe save files/settings in a simple file on thier windoze partition without installing, the eventual plung to fully reinstall won't be so hard. Good intro (think for dummies style) documentation and tours would be easier to write with less programs, just adding some subnotes to those interested that hte programs presented are not the only ones able to do the job.

While it is true this linux with training wheels would probably not remain on their desktop as their permanent Linux OS, it would be that link between win32 and the current linux world.

But then that's just my opinion, I may be wrong. . . .

Re:SimpleLinux by dmaxwell · 2005-02-02 04:54 · Score: 1

It exists. It's called Ubuntu. There is only one DE (Gnome) and one example of each major application and utility. It's doing pretty well and regular Debian packages can be shoehorned in once the training wheels are ready to come off.

coLinux sorely overlooked by jago25_98 · 2005-02-01 20:22 · Score: 2, Interesting

coLinux runs inside a Window in Windows. When people are trying Knoppix they could be running coLinux.

http://www.colinux.org/

I use it to serve my ext3 & reiserfs partitions.

Cavats I know of at the moment:

- TAP virtual interface very slow
- not quite a double-click install but close
- virtual filesystem doesn't shrink and grow automatically

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A blog I run for the wealth

Re:coLinux sorely overlooked by The+Conductor · 2005-02-02 09:27 · Score: 1

Cool idea, that coLinux. But what I really want is the reverse, to run Windows inside Linux, in a secured sandbox, of course. Extra points if it gives me detailed control over the sandbox. Like, "play this WMA stream and access nothing else from the network.
Y'know, with the early versions of Windows, you could run a second Windows session inside a window. At least the guy at Byte magazine could do it on hardware I couldn't afford. By Win 3.0, when I first tried, that didn't work anymore.

Linux Newbie by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-01 20:27 · Score: 0

I'm a die-hard, Bill-Gates-can-do-no-wrong, Microsoft-loving, Sr. Network Administrator supporting a complete Windows 2003/XP network.

What do you suggest I use as my introduction to Linux (preferably Live CD-style).

Oh, and I'd like to see what my Athlon 64 can do in a native 64bit Linux environment.

XFLD (damn small based ?) by dbcad7 · 2005-02-01 20:52 · Score: 1

I don't think this is true. It is Debian - Knoppix based I beleive.

It is a great distro to use for a base Debian install, and I love the new xfce4.

The only problem I have with XFLD and Debian (as it is now) is that they are not using xorg server yet.

I went the long route of net installing Suse, and then xfce4 to get the xorg/xfce4 combo, because I wanted to try and experiment with transparencies. It's working, but I am happier with XFLD and synaptic than Suse and Yast.. even with the older kernel and xserver.

Just my 2 cents

dbcad7

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waiting for ad.doubleclick.net

Knoppix by Siener · 2005-02-01 20:52 · Score: 2, Informative

The original, and in my opinion still the best. They seem to get better with every release.

Old versions of Knoppix didn't work properly on my laptop. Recently I tried it on my laptop again, and I was amazed. I basically tested how quickly I could get everything working.

About 15 minutes later I had succesfully set up my local network, internet via ADSL, printer, Samba, and Cd-Writer. As an encore I connected to the internet through GPRS via my cellphone, via the ir port - something that I have never been able to do in Windows.

Best of all: I saved the configuration to a USB key, so now everything is set up correctly as soon as I boot.

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siener's youtube channel

one for USB stick ? by savuporo · 2005-02-01 20:58 · Score: 1

So, which one will fit on a 128meg USB stick ?
CDs arent half as sexy for demoing and flashcards wont go everywhere.

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Re:one for USB stick ? by geminidomino · 2005-02-02 00:03 · Score: 1

Slax. It will fit on an 80MB mini-CD.

gentoo LiveCDs by Sweetshark · 2005-02-01 21:11 · Score: 1

Making a gentoo-based LiveCD once were hard handwork since you couldnt just use a knoppix CD as a base and modify it to your needs. However it has been done: SystemRescueCd.
gentoo catalyst should make this stuff much easier in the future.

plan9 boots from CD by DrSkwid · 2005-02-01 21:54 · Score: 2, Informative

If you feel like trying it out, it boots from CD anyway, no need for a special LiveCD

http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/

--
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter

Re:plan9 boots from CD by PigleT · 2005-02-01 23:00 · Score: 1

Interesting, but: given http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition.php section 5, can someone tell me how the Plan9 licence might be considered open-source?

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~Tim
--
.|` Clouds cross the black moonlight,
Rushing on down to the circle of the turn
Re:plan9 boots from CD by DrSkwid · 2005-02-01 23:51 · Score: 2, Informative

You almost have a point, and indeed the wording was previously different but with enough pressure from users and developers enough changes have occured that the now OSI Certified Lucent Public License Version 1.02 clearly states :

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7. EXPORT CONTROL

Recipient agrees that Recipient alone is responsible for compliance with the United States export administration regulations (and the export control laws and regulation of any other countries).

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On 9th Jan the GNU foundation and in particular RMS. changed their stance and agreed that :

The current license of Plan 9 does qualify as free software (and also as open source).

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There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter

parking lot by fons · 2005-02-01 21:56 · Score: 1

KLAUS: Try not to boot any live CD's on your way to the parking lot!

That's part of the fun by Joseph_Daniel_Zukige · 2005-02-01 22:09 · Score: 1

You know, having no clue and then getting one.

No. I like choice. by jotaeleemeese · 2005-02-01 22:13 · Score: 1

By now people should be painfully aware ot the drawbacks of one solution only. For goodness sake, have 15 years of Windows dominance not taught people that lack of choice is far worse than "too many" choices?

Give me the chaotic way of Linux any day. Responsible, intelligent people thrive with choices, conformist people like to be told what to do and use.

If Jose User (who is that guy anyway?) is forced to choose, perhaps it will be for his own good. If he does not want choice, he knows where to go: back to the Windows world (the most akin thing to a coummunist ideal in the IT world: do as you are told, all the IT resources centrally controlled by ne entity) or to the Apple world (ditto, but they will give you eye candy in the process).

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IANAL but write like a drunk one.

circle what? by Joseph_Daniel_Zukige · 2005-02-01 22:18 · Score: 1

Well, you know, 40+ hours total trying to get netBSD installed on an old 68LC040 might just have used up all the time I could have been, uhm, circle whatever that was.

One of these days I'll get a full '040. That and a PPC box so I can help out with the freeBSD port to PPC.

Right now I'm working overtime and my brain's fried.

--
trolling for R&R

Re:FreeSBIE? Here are the details by Anonymous+Cowherd+X · 2005-02-01 22:34 · Score: 0

FreeSBIE, based on Free BSD and bundled with Xfce, is intriguing, but I couldn't get it to talk to the wireless network, or to print. It also crashed my system twice. But I'd be willing to check it out again sometime.

That whole article is just one big trollish flamebait. The author doesn't know FreeBSD is not Linux and he cannot even get the name right, it's a miracle he didn't write Linux as Li nux. He also failed to notice that Fluxbox is also available and not just XFce, but maybe he thought Fluxbox is a version of Tetris. Well, since he didn't explain what exactly happened, here is a more detailed account of what went on:

*FreeSBIE booting up*
James LaRue: "Oh, check out the penguin, I like the new costume, hehe!"
James LaRue: "*scratching head* Uhh, Fluxbox... Tetris? Nah, not for me... What the hell... *presses 1 (console tcsh shell)*"

# ifconfig wlan0 wificlient broadcast 192.168.1.255 ifconfig: interface wlan0 does not exist

James LaRue: "Bummer... *writing down* Wireless not working... *reboots the computer and starts XFce and then launches OpenOffice*"
James LaRue: "I'm gonna do me some printing *humming* Hmm... Oh! *switches the printer on and tries to print something again*"
James LaRue: "Oh! Doh! *connects the printer cable to the computer, but to no avail*"
James LaRue: "Damn, why can't I print?! This Lynux distro is really starting to piss me off! *kicks the case and the computer reboots*"
James LaRue: "Dude, WTF?! *starts pounding on the keyboard and unknowingly presses 6 (Escape to loader prompt)*"
James LaRue: "What the hell is this?! Damn it! *writing down angrily* Crashed... TWICE!"

About the author: James LaRue is a public library administrator..

Are you sure? I think I know him from somewhere... Well, if he really is a public library administrator it seems his library is missing a book or two.

What about HD-based 'Live' linuxes? by squidinkcalligraphy · 2005-02-01 22:48 · Score: 1

I want to run linux off my portable hard-drive (large enough to hold a real system), but in any computer I choose to walk up to. So Live-CD hardware detection would be necessary, but with a real filesystem. Anyone had any success with this? (And, no, I can't be bothered rolling my own distro).

--
"I think it would be a good idea" Gandhi, on Western Civilisation

Re:What about HD-based 'Live' linuxes? by know1 · 2005-02-02 01:39 · Score: 1

yeah, Damn Small Linux has a hard drive install option (although it must be to a DOS filesytem i think) and i have it on an old 330mb hard drive that does all the autodetection wherever it goes. still takes the same amount of time to boot as the live cd, but you have the cd drive for use, which is damn usefull.

I am all for choice by tod_miller · 2005-02-01 22:55 · Score: 1

But how awesome would the core GNU/Linux/KDE/Gnome/Grub/Etc tools be if these all worked on one usable setup/install/remove program.

Plus it gets tiring wanting to try another version, Live CD's are fine, but you have to D/L *and* burn, and restart... phew, too much hassle ;-0

--
#hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com

Re:I am all for choice by tod_miller · 2005-02-01 23:11 · Score: 1

Of course you have to incubate developers, if everyone tried to develop on one thing, there would be less competative nature.

ON

--
#hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com

No, it would not. by jotaeleemeese · 2005-02-01 23:07 · Score: 1

But thanks for asking.. NOT.

--
IANAL but write like a drunk one.

Re:No, it would not. by hyperstation · 2005-02-02 03:49 · Score: 1

fine then, i guess the One True Unix-like Desktop will have to be OS X.

Ain't around no' more .. by torpor · 2005-02-01 23:27 · Score: 1

.. i've looked everywhere, and that LiveCD has disappeared from the mirrors ..

--
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --

Re:Ain't around no' more .. by DrSkwid · 2005-02-02 00:05 · Score: 1

oh yes, you are right, I had failed to follow the links on that page to check against 404.

Perhaps I should host the iso somewhere myself.

--
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter

Aurox!! by ri0t · 2005-02-01 23:38 · Score: 2, Informative

Aurox is missing, too!
And this, in contrast to Gentoo, IS a Live-CD.
(Not a bad one either)

This fine piece of OS is distributed regularly (including interesting updates & tutorials) with the polish Magazine "Hakin9"

Greetings from Euregio!

What I Wish For In A Distro ... by torpor · 2005-02-01 23:39 · Score: 1

what i wish for in a distro is one that totally eschews the whole idea of having a 'package manager' for anything, and instead is a 100% Free/Open Source-friendly install.

Such that /usr/src contains all the unpacked/untarred/make config'ed trees for all binaries installed on the system, including the kernel, including the bintools, etc.

A *FULL SOURCE distro* that doesn't enforce its own package religion would be a wonderful thing indeed. I remember in the days of Yggdrasil, one could install the 'build directories' into a live running system as well, and those dirs would contain the actual build products for the running bins.

anyone know of such a distro, short of "Roll your own"?

--
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --

Re:What I Wish For In A Distro ... by geminidomino · 2005-02-02 00:06 · Score: 1

That distro is called "How the fsck do you expect to fit that all on one CD?!"

Assuming you're remaining on-topic of course.

If not, then may I suggest FreeBSD or Slackware?
Re:What I Wish For In A Distro ... by torpor · 2005-02-02 01:33 · Score: 1

Slackware comes with full source, no bogus package religion to cower in front of, source for bins is on the disk?

--
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Re:What I Wish For In A Distro ... by geminidomino · 2005-02-02 15:37 · Score: 1

I beleive the sources are on one of the discs in the distro if you buy the discs, yeah. As for package management, pkgtool is as simple as they come, which makes it simple to ignore, too.

And FreeBSD is as easy as running cvsup.

too many 'beta' cds by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-02 00:01 · Score: 0

And how many of them are actually in a 'stable' phase?

Ok let me rephrase, How many of them are still NOT in beta testing?

Re:Did any of them work? by Hognoxious · 2005-02-02 00:24 · Score: 1

I can get windows to work but I hate it. Well, except for games.

--
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."

Right by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-02 01:01 · Score: 0

Let me guess, next you're going to tell me GNU's not Unix or something?

Re:Are you retarded? by SaidinUnleashed · 2005-02-02 01:17 · Score: 1

Netcard detection means exactly what it sounds like.

Freesbie doesn't detect some newer integrated NICs, like nforce1,2,3,4, Intel's new chipset (can't remember the nubmber), or gigabit ethernet cards.

Also, my 3.4ghz P4 is detected as running at 2.4ghz.

That's improper clock speed detection.

Sorry I was unclear.

--
Shiny. Let's be bad guys.

Many live CDs don't work on my machine by anandrajan · 2005-02-02 01:33 · Score: 1

I've tested Knoppix, SuSE 9.2 Live DVD, and Linspire 4.5 Live and none of them work out of the box on my machine. I have a fairly standard AMD box with an nvidia card. It would be nice to have something that works.

--
Anand Rangarajan anand@cise.ufl.edu

FreeBSIE is not Linux by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-02 01:37 · Score: 1, Informative

FreeSBIE is based on FreeBSD, ergo it is not Linux, but BSD.

Ummm - who cares? by gosand · 2005-02-02 01:54 · Score: 1

The moral of the story, All these branches of linux are confusing to Joe, and without Joe's support linux can't wipe out M$. So if we can't decide on one, lets reduce it to the big players, then keep a few around for elitist (Such as gentoo) and call it a day.

Quite honestly, who cares?

Who says the goal of Linux, if such a thing can exist, is to "wipe out M$"? I am tired of people speculating when Linux will overtake Windows. I don't give a rat's ass - I just want to use Linux. One of the reasons I don't like Windows is because Microsoft doesn't play fair, and in the past has hindered the competition. I don't think I would want Linux to take over the desktop, I just want to be able to use it.

Now there is the opportunity to take it to the desktop as evidenced by Linspire. They got into Wal*Mart, which is no easy task. You couldn't get closer to Joe Sixpack than Wal*Mart. If Linspire succeeds, good for them. If they fail, they gave it a good effort. I think as long as there is a level playing field, Linux will survive on its own merits. Maybe Joe Sixpack won't embrace it, maybe it won't take over the desktop. That is fine with me, as long as I am still able to use it. That isn't to say it shouldn't be improved upon, but improve it for the sake of making it better, not just to "win". That is the mindset that got Microsoft to where it is today.

--

My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

Synchronicty by hey! · 2005-02-02 02:02 · Score: 1

I've been going through live CDs for the last week or so (in my "spare time"), and I've looked at about a half dozen.

So far my favorite has been Mandrake Move, although the download edition doesn't allow you to save the configuration to a USB key drive (you can however save files -- the issue is that you go through the license agreement etc. every time you boot). It is elegant, well organized, and has a reasonable selection of tools. I'm considering buying the edition that will allow me to keep the configuration on the USB drive.

Damn Small Linux is ugly, and has a weird selection of applications. But what do you want? It's a usable linux distro that will fit on a 50MB credit card cd. I've been working on trying to get it to boot of a USB keychain -- haven't succeeded yet, but probably because I need to download some additional files. You can buy a USB keychain from them with DSL installed. In any case, I think I could live with its limitations if I could carry it around on a keychain with a couple of security tools. This alone is enough to make it a winner for me, although using it may cause your eyeballs to bleed. Getting DSL running on a key drive is what's keeping me from forking over the $$$ to get Mandrake Move.

I also like SLAX. It is a Slack based distro that is reasonably fast, and it has a default Aqua-ish theme that is very nice looking. It's small enough for a mini-cd and can save the configuration information to a USB key drive. I'd prefer open office to Koffice though.

Knoppix has all the stuff that you'd want from a liveCD, and it is technically impressive. but it is obviously the work of geeks. It is ugly and cluttered. I also found the X display manager was flaky on my laptop running from 3.7, something I hadn't experienced from earlier versions.

--
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.

Mepis Es Berry Goot by Aceto3for5 · 2005-02-02 02:28 · Score: 1

I dont know how many of you out there have used Mepis, but it is quite frankly the best I've used as a desktop. I have it installed on my desktop and laptop, and I have a copy at work for data recovery from tattered windows file systems. It picked up my nVidia card without needing configuration, it picked up my wifi card without configuration. I am quite pleased with it. Burn the iso and toss it in. You'll be pleased with it im sure.

Re:Mepis Es Berry Goot by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-02 07:27 · Score: 0

Mepis is good, indeed. I'm a Mac user, but I also have a Pentium 4 box with XP/Mepis on it (I only use XP for gaming and Mepis for browsing/chatting/school work in some cases).

WiFi Koolaid by agent · 2005-02-02 03:05 · Score: 1

http://www.whoppix.net

Brazilian Linux Live CD by gustgr · 2005-02-02 03:32 · Score: 1

There is a really neat Brazilian Linux Live CD called "Kurumin" (it means "boy" or "young man" in the Tupi language, which is used by some Brazilian indians tribes).

It is based on Knoppix/Debian and it is supported by the Federal Government here in Brazil, being developed at the state university of campinas (http://www.unicamp.br/). It is used at schools and telecenters which supports the Digital Inclusion program. I've tryied it once here at my home and it worked great, it is fully in portuguese language.

More info available at http://www.kuruminlinux.com.br/

MOD PARENT DOWN by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-02 03:34 · Score: 0

You stupid slashbot morons. There is no Gentoo Live distro that is worth anything. That goes completely against Gentoo's stupid "compile everything" philosophy.

Gentoo sucks.

Which live-distro for recovery? by grumbel · 2005-02-02 03:37 · Score: 1

Can anybody recomment a good LiveCD for recovery purporse? Have have tried multiple, but they end up either being to colorfull (lots of stuff I don't need for recovery, KDE, graphical Grub, etc) or to minimalistic (lacking ssh, rsync, etc.).

Stuff I need would be mainly Grub (important!), ssh, rsync, cfdisk, sfdisk, parted, etc. and good driver support (ide controller, network cards).

author is confused by Mantorp · 2005-02-02 04:16 · Score: 1

"* Knoppix/Kanotix/Mepis. All good choices, but Mepis feels more home user oriented."

Then he lists Kanotix and Knoppix in the section of distros he doesn't recommend.

Why no Debian? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-02 04:42 · Score: 0

How can any review of Linux distributions not review Debian? I've probably used 20 different distributions over the past 10 years, and none have worked nearly as well as Debian. I just don't understand OS New's continued slant against Debian.

Re:Can a .22 rifle shoot though 18 Live Linux CDs? by thoromyr · 2005-02-02 05:01 · Score: 1

Hole or not, I think it would. On the other hand I have some experience with CDs and a bb/pellet gun.

Back a few years ago when getting coasters instead of functioning cds was a bit more common and I was buying blanks by the case I had a bit too much time on my hands and did some experimenting. Unfortunately I never wrote down the results, but it was something like this:

1 CD: blow a hole through it
2 CDs: blow a hole through them
3 CDs: blow a hole through them
4 CDs: blow a hole through them
5 CDs: blow a hole through them
6 CDs: bounce off the top disk, but the fourth one has circular section from point of impact completely detached.

Isn't spalling fun!

thoromyr

Slax Frodo by Derf_X · 2005-02-02 05:42 · Score: 1

You could try Slax Frodo, it's Slax without X. The image is only 32 MB. However, it is Slackware based.

Which CD boots into console by default? by aphid · 2005-02-02 06:11 · Score: 1

I'd prefer a CD that boots pretty quickly and puts me into a console by default with a choice of starting X if I need to. I'm thinking more of a sysadmin type fixit tool like Tom's Root Boot.

LiveCD, what about LiveThumb? by Wvrent · 2005-02-02 07:57 · Score: 1

I googled and didn't find much, but is there a way to use a usb thumb drive as the boot device for a liveCd image? 1 giggers are pretty common now, and the option of being r/w would make it that much more useful.

I know not alot of bios's support booting of a usb thumb drive, but slowly that will change.

You apparently have sorely lacking _prose_ as well by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-02 08:28 · Score: 0

No need to belittle others for faults you hold in common.

No no no no, sorry Billy is as confused as Joe! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-02 09:41 · Score: 0

The biggest problem is that Billy spends all day fcukin around with these distros and doesn't know which one to pick either!!!!

I am curious how they'd rate Puppy by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-02 10:16 · Score: 0

http://goosee.com/puppy

It's very small, yet very usable.

What about PPC / Mac? by Merk · 2005-02-02 13:25 · Score: 1

I have an iBook, and much as I love OS X, sometimes I just need Linux. Apparently there was just a Gnoppix release for PPC. All the KDE live CD releases I can find are anywhere from 9 months to 1.5 years old.

Re:Knoppix? Getting worse, IMHO by Anonymous Coward · 2005-02-02 14:02 · Score: 0

I used knoppix when it was at 3.1 and it was nothing short of amazing.

Recently, I tried out 3.7 and while it's still usable, now the video card (SiS) stutters, the window manager shows a weird color scheme when mozilla is started, and kppp doesn't want to dial even with an external modem.

This is nothing that an advanced user can't fix, but for an ordinary user, the former experience of "plug and go" is all but ruined.

LSD by Ohreally_factor · 2005-02-02 14:59 · Score: 1

So you're saying you want a Linux Standard Distribution.

Are you hallucinating?

--
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.

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18 Live Linux CDs -- In A Row

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