"Can't you just see it? Civilization starting all over again - a second chance. We'll even build a railway and tunnel to the coast, go there for our holidays. Nothing can stop men like us. I've made a start already. Come on down here and have a look."
The question might be more interesting if you frame it like this: Why does the Earth have a lot of water when none of the other rocky planets have? Or for that matter any of the gas planets, moons, asteroids and other bits and sundry that were also created from that same dust cloud.
I don't think anyone's saying that water on Earth came solely from comets or asteroids.
No, about 71% of the Earth's surface is covered in water, the total mass of which is about 1.38E18 tons. The Earth weighs about 6E21 tons, so the Earth is about 0.00023% water.
Also:
There are various popular theories as to how the world's oceans were formed over the past 4.6 billion years. Some of the most likely contributing factors to the origin of the Earth's oceans are as follows:
* The cooling of the primordial Earth to the point where the outgassed volatile components were held in an atmosphere of sufficient pressure for the stabilization and retention of liquid water.
* Comets, trans-Neptunian objects or water-rich meteorites (protoplanets) from the outer reaches of the asteroid belt colliding with a pre-historic Earth may have brought water to the world's oceans. Measurements of the ratio of the hydrogen isotopes deuterium and protium point to asteroids, since similar percentage impurities in carbon-rich chondrites were found to oceanic water, whereas previous measurement of the isotopes' concentrations in comets and trans-Neptunian objects correspond only slightly to water on the earth.
* Biochemically through mineralization and photosynthesis (guttation, transpiration).
* Gradual leakage of water stored in hydrous minerals of the Earth's rocks.
* Photolysis: radiation can break down chemical bonds on the surface.
I doubt it'll be the sun that kills off life on this planet.
Maybe humanity will be gone by then, but there is other life on this planet, you know. And that life might just be killed off by the sun in a few billion years.
The US has, bar none, the best medical care in the world.
Well, I've seen this touted before, and as then I feel obliged to point out that e.g. the WHO disagrees:
The World Health Organization (WHO), in 2000, ranked the U.S. health care system as the highest in cost, first in responsiveness, 37th in overall performance, and 72nd by overall level of health (among 191 member nations included in the study). The WHO study has been criticized in a study published in Health Affairs for its methodology and lack of correlation with user satisfaction ratings. A 2008 report by the Commonwealth Fund ranked the United States last in the quality of health care among the 19 compared countries. However, the U.S. also has higher survival rates than most other countries for certain conditions, such as some less common cancers. Yet, the U.S. has a higher infant mortality rate than all other developed countries. According to the Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences, the United States is the "only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not ensure that all citizens have coverage" (i.e. some kind of assurance).
And more:
Medical debt is the principal cause of bankruptcy in the United States.
"A peaceful and civilized nation"? Is there any nation fitting that description anywhere?
Sweden, maybe.
A 60 percent taxation rate is uncivilized.
If you're seriously saying that wasn't meant to imply that Sweden has a 60% taxation rate, I think you need to work a bit on your writing.
Where do you imply that it's just some people that pay that level of taxes? Nowhere. It's no good backpedaling now that you've been proved wrong.
You exaggerated for effect (no harm in that), but you need to just acknowledge that and move on, and not try to cover your behind by claiming you meant something you didn't write. Doing that just makes you seem dishonest.
US health care is undeniably the best in the world, it's not even close.
The WHO disagrees:
The World Health Organization (WHO), in 2000, ranked the U.S. health care system as * the highest in cost, * first in responsiveness, * 37th in overall performance, * and 72nd by overall level of health (among 191 member nations included in the study).
A 2008 report by the Commonwealth Fund ranked the United States last in the quality of health care among the 19 compared countries. However, the U.S. also has higher survival rates than most other countries for certain conditions, such as some less common cancers. Yet, the U.S. has a higher infant mortality rate than all other developed countries. According to the Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences, the United States is the "only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not ensure that all citizens have coverage" (i.e. some kind of assurance). (source)
The reason we score low is because the poor don't get access to all that good shit like the middle and upper class.
Sooo.... What good is having "undeniably the best" healthcare in the world if I'm unable to get access to it?
As for education level and other useless "development metrics", come back when Sweden isn't a tiny little pissant country with a population a fraction the size of California.
You are a perfect example of why education level isn't a useless development metric. If you'd had better education, maybe you wouldn't have to resort to these kind of ad hominem attacks when your reasoning fails you.
The average yearly income in Sweden is 309600 SEK ($43 272), so most people actually end up paying around 30% in taxes, not 60%.
Shrug. I never implied otherwise. I'm sure your numbers are quite accurate, but they have nothing to do with me or what I wrote.
Dishonest. You wrote "A 60 percent taxation rate is uncivilized", implying that that's what people in Sweden pay in taxes, and that therefore Sweden wasn't a good example of a civilized country.
Not that I ever argued it is. My main point was that the U.S. certainly isn't the "peaceful and civilized" nation Toonol made it out to be.
Well, this 60% tax thing is getting out of hand, so I thought I'd just educate you a bit about Swedish taxes.
I don't pay 60% in tax, I pay about half that (29.33%).
The Swedish progressive income tax system works like this:
On income below 367 600 SEK ($51 378) yearly, you pay about 30% tax (in my case 29.33, of which 17% is municipal tax, 12% is county council tax, and 0.11% is a burial fee - those that are members of the Church of Sweden also pay 0.29% in church tax, but I am not a member so I'm exempt from that).
On income between 367600 SEK and 526200 SEK ($73 546) yearly, a 20% state tax is added for the amount above 367600 SEK. On income above 526200 SEK yearly, the state tax is 25% on the amount exceeding 526200 SEK
So, if I earned say, 600000 SEK, I would then pay 29.33% on the first 367600 SEK, which is 107817 SEK. The next 158600 SEK would be taxed with 49.33%, which is 78237 SEK The last 73800 SEK would be taxed with 54.33%, which is 40096 SEK. I would then have paid 226150 SEK in taxes, which is an effective tax rate of 37.7%
If I earn (or at least have a taxable income after deductions and the like) of 367599 SEK or less, I would pay 29.33% tax.
The average yearly income in Sweden is 309600 SEK ($43 272), so most people actually end up paying around 30% in taxes, not 60%.
Figures are fiscal year 2009 except average income which is 2007. Sources include www.scb.se (Statistics Sweden) and www.skatteverket.se (Swedish Tax Agency).
Sure, here's an off-the-top-of-my-head list of countries you've started wars with in the last 50 years or so:
Nicaragua Guatemala The Dominican Republic Grenada Panama
And of course Iraq.
Note that you've probably not called them wars in your domestic news, but instead "police actions", "regime change" and the like, but a rose by any other name...
Theft is uncivilized. The greater the theft, the more uncivilized.
Tax is theft now? Let me paraphrase Charles Babbage: "I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a statement."
I know I shouldn't ask, but what the hell: How on earth can you construe tax as being theft?
Because it's not violent and uncivilized.
That is debatable, to say the least.
Yes, it is. As I already proved with "dead horse" references to WWI and especially WWII, being involved in violent acts does not make you violent or un-peaceful. Simply citing "police actions" is not an argument.
You haven't "proved" anything, other than your ability to (wilfully, I'll presume) misunderstand arguments and troll the very forums you help develop. Of course being involved in violent acts makes you violent, what other definition of "violent" can there be?
Our electoral system is not flawed.
Well, I and many others disagree. I'm sure a smart guy like you can type the words "US electoral system flawed" into google and educate yourself a bit.
Our judicial system, while flawed, is less so than any other.
Geez, you really are trolling, aren't you? Just exchange the word "judicial" for "electoral" in that google search and do some reading. Oh, and a country that still enforces the death penalty can't be said to have a civilized judicial system.
Our social welfare system is flawed primarily in that it is unconstitutional and anti-liberty: it should be much smaller and legal.
No, your social welfare system is flawed primarily because it's designed to exclude people, not include them.
I defy you to name one [international treaty the U.S. has violated].
The Geneva Convention, ever heard of it? That's just one. Remember that google thing I told you about? Try searching for "us convention violated", you might actually learn something.
I defy you to give an example.
I'm sure you've at least skimmed through these posts here, but let me just say South and Central America. I'm sure you can figure the rest out.
Jeez, what has slashdot come to these days when even the employees are trolling? Well, I'm done feeding this here troll.
Let me correct that for you: A paid "slave" to ONESELF and others.
You see, it's not like "the state" (ooh scary) stealing your money and giving it to someone else; society as a whole - including YOU - benefits from paying taxes.
In fact I reap the benefits of it every single day. Free or subventionized education, healthcare, infrastructure and much, much more.
Help your neighbors, is that such a hard concept to grasp?
Is it? How do you figure (he queried, knowing the answer)?
If it weren't for the U.S. involvement in WWI and WWII, Sweden would be speaking German today, so how's about you get some fucking perspective? Is that too much to ask (he queried, knowing the answer)?
So, instead of flogging that dead horse, how about you tell us WHY you think the U.S. is entitled to the moniker "peaceful and civilized"?
Peaceful it sure isn't, as illustrated by 30+ wars and so-called "police actions" in the 20th century.
Civilized? Debatable, with the rampant flaws in its electoral system, judicial system and social welfare system. Murder on the streets, capitalism ensuring the rich get richer while the poor get poorer. Corporate money buying laws, buying politicians, buying all the mom and pop's all over the country. Blatant disregard for international treaties and a will and a way to impose this on unwilling nations all around the globe.
So, tell us WHY the U.S. should be considered "peaceful and civilized", because I sure can't see it.
"A peaceful and civilized nation"? Is there any nation fitting that description anywhere?
Sweden, maybe.
It's certainly not the U.S., what with all the wars it's been involved in in just the last century.
But you say "allows us" as if the U.S. is exactly what you mean - and the bomb TFA is about is a U.S. weapon - so I must draw the conclusion that you're living under the delusion that the U.S. is "peaceful and civilized", with "the best technology, industry, and economy[!]".
I too taught myself programming with BASIC, but a tad bit earlier than you - around the year the article is about to be honest, maybe a year or two later... Sinclair ZX-80, let me count the ways I'm thankful to you:)
BASIC -> Z80 assembler -> DOS batch -> bash -> Perl -> Java, sometimes I miss the early days of typing in code listings from ZX Magazine and the like, trying to find out why the code worked (or not, more likely). Aah, better days - or maybe it was just that I was better then;)
Warhammer Online also had the misfortune of being run by GOA here in Europe, which is a death-sentence to any MMO.
Too bad, the game had (and still has) huge potential, but I'm guessing that it's now on Mythic's back-burner and they just want to keep it running while they squeeze out a few more subscription dollars.
(played since open beta, still play occasionally, but not at all happy with where the game is)
Slashdot Mirror
"Can't you just see it? Civilization starting all over again - a second chance. We'll even
build a railway and tunnel to the coast, go there for our holidays. Nothing can stop men
like us. I've made a start already. Come on down here and have a look."
Great album, great book.
The question might be more interesting if you frame it like this: Why does the Earth have a lot of water when none of the other rocky planets have? Or for that matter any of the gas planets, moons, asteroids and other bits and sundry that were also created from that same dust cloud.
I don't think anyone's saying that water on Earth came solely from comets or asteroids.
Earth is 70% water or so
No, about 71% of the Earth's surface is covered in water, the total mass of which is about 1.38E18 tons. The Earth weighs about 6E21 tons, so the Earth is about 0.00023% water.
Also:
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_water_on_Earth
Robocop 2, wasn't it? I seem to remember a few of those commercials in the movie, one about a car alarm with 50.000 volts as well...
It's been a few (*cough*) years though, so I might be wrong.
Hahahahaha.... Hee... Hee... Hahahahahahaha...
No really? NSFW? Hahahahahaha....
What's WRONG with you guys?
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic".
Gyros, computers, and magic. Last one optional.
Until I get this I'm not satisfied.
I recommend you pressing F11 (in Firefox at least). Presto! More space for the webpage!
There already exists one: http://vimperator.org/trac/wiki/Vimperator
I doubt it'll be the sun that kills off life on this planet.
Maybe humanity will be gone by then, but there is other life on this planet, you know. And that life might just be killed off by the sun in a few billion years.
The US has, bar none, the best medical care in the world.
Well, I've seen this touted before, and as then I feel obliged to point out that e.g. the WHO disagrees:
The World Health Organization (WHO), in 2000, ranked the U.S. health care system as the highest in cost, first in responsiveness, 37th in overall performance, and 72nd by overall level of health (among 191 member nations included in the study). The WHO study has been criticized in a study published in Health Affairs for its methodology and lack of correlation with user satisfaction ratings. A 2008 report by the Commonwealth Fund ranked the United States last in the quality of health care among the 19 compared countries. However, the U.S. also has higher survival rates than most other countries for certain conditions, such as some less common cancers. Yet, the U.S. has a higher infant mortality rate than all other developed countries. According to the Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences, the United States is the "only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not ensure that all citizens have coverage" (i.e. some kind of assurance).
And more:
Medical debt is the principal cause of bankruptcy in the United States.
(source: wikipedia, of course, emphasis mine).
Here's the first three lines of your post:
"A peaceful and civilized nation"? Is there any nation fitting that description anywhere?
Sweden, maybe.
A 60 percent taxation rate is uncivilized.
If you're seriously saying that wasn't meant to imply that Sweden has a 60% taxation rate, I think you need to work a bit on your writing.
Where do you imply that it's just some people that pay that level of taxes? Nowhere. It's no good backpedaling now that you've been proved wrong.
You exaggerated for effect (no harm in that), but you need to just acknowledge that and move on, and not try to cover your behind by claiming you meant something you didn't write. Doing that just makes you seem dishonest.
US health care is undeniably the best in the world, it's not even close.
The WHO disagrees:
The World Health Organization (WHO), in 2000, ranked the U.S. health care system as
* the highest in cost,
* first in responsiveness,
* 37th in overall performance,
* and 72nd by overall level of health
(among 191 member nations included in the study).
A 2008 report by the Commonwealth Fund ranked the United States last in the quality of health care among the 19 compared countries. However, the U.S. also has higher survival rates than most other countries for certain conditions, such as some less common cancers. Yet, the U.S. has a higher infant mortality rate than all other developed countries. According to the Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences, the United States is the "only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not ensure that all citizens have coverage" (i.e. some kind of assurance).
(source)
The reason we score low is because the poor don't get access to all that good shit like the middle and upper class.
Sooo.... What good is having "undeniably the best" healthcare in the world if I'm unable to get access to it?
As for education level and other useless "development metrics", come back when Sweden isn't a tiny little pissant country with a population a fraction the size of California.
You are a perfect example of why education level isn't a useless development metric. If you'd had better education, maybe you wouldn't have to resort to these kind of ad hominem attacks when your reasoning fails you.
The average yearly income in Sweden is 309600 SEK ($43 272), so most people actually end up paying around 30% in taxes, not 60%.
Shrug. I never implied otherwise. I'm sure your numbers are quite accurate, but they have nothing to do with me or what I wrote.
Dishonest. You wrote "A 60 percent taxation rate is uncivilized", implying that that's what people in Sweden pay in taxes, and that therefore Sweden wasn't a good example of a civilized country.
Not that I ever argued it is. My main point was that the U.S. certainly isn't the "peaceful and civilized" nation Toonol made it out to be.
Well, this 60% tax thing is getting out of hand, so I thought I'd just educate you a bit about Swedish taxes.
I don't pay 60% in tax, I pay about half that (29.33%).
The Swedish progressive income tax system works like this:
On income below 367 600 SEK ($51 378) yearly, you pay about 30% tax (in my case 29.33, of which 17% is municipal tax, 12% is county council tax, and 0.11% is a burial fee - those that are members of the Church of Sweden also pay 0.29% in church tax, but I am not a member so I'm exempt from that).
On income between 367600 SEK and 526200 SEK ($73 546) yearly, a 20% state tax is added for the amount above 367600 SEK.
On income above 526200 SEK yearly, the state tax is 25% on the amount exceeding 526200 SEK
So, if I earned say, 600000 SEK, I would then pay 29.33% on the first 367600 SEK, which is 107817 SEK.
The next 158600 SEK would be taxed with 49.33%, which is 78237 SEK
The last 73800 SEK would be taxed with 54.33%, which is 40096 SEK.
I would then have paid 226150 SEK in taxes, which is an effective tax rate of 37.7%
If I earn (or at least have a taxable income after deductions and the like) of 367599 SEK or less, I would pay 29.33% tax.
The average yearly income in Sweden is 309600 SEK ($43 272), so most people actually end up paying around 30% in taxes, not 60%.
Figures are fiscal year 2009 except average income which is 2007. Sources include www.scb.se (Statistics Sweden) and www.skatteverket.se (Swedish Tax Agency).
Thank you for your time.
Sure, here's an off-the-top-of-my-head list of countries you've started wars with in the last 50 years or so:
Nicaragua
Guatemala
The Dominican Republic
Grenada
Panama
And of course Iraq.
Note that you've probably not called them wars in your domestic news, but instead "police actions", "regime change" and the like, but a rose by any other name...
Theft is uncivilized. The greater the theft, the more uncivilized.
Tax is theft now? Let me paraphrase Charles Babbage: "I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a statement."
I know I shouldn't ask, but what the hell: How on earth can you construe tax as being theft?
Because it's not violent and uncivilized.
That is debatable, to say the least.
Yes, it is. As I already proved with "dead horse" references to WWI and especially WWII, being involved in violent acts does not make you violent or un-peaceful. Simply citing "police actions" is not an argument.
You haven't "proved" anything, other than your ability to (wilfully, I'll presume) misunderstand arguments and troll the very forums you help develop. Of course being involved in violent acts makes you violent, what other definition of "violent" can there be?
Our electoral system is not flawed.
Well, I and many others disagree. I'm sure a smart guy like you can type the words "US electoral system flawed" into google and educate yourself a bit.
Our judicial system, while flawed, is less so than any other.
Geez, you really are trolling, aren't you? Just exchange the word "judicial" for "electoral" in that google search and do some reading. Oh, and a country that still enforces the death penalty can't be said to have a civilized judicial system.
Our social welfare system is flawed primarily in that it is unconstitutional and anti-liberty: it should be much smaller and legal.
No, your social welfare system is flawed primarily because it's designed to exclude people, not include them.
I defy you to name one [international treaty the U.S. has violated].
The Geneva Convention, ever heard of it? That's just one. Remember that google thing I told you about? Try searching for "us convention violated", you might actually learn something.
I defy you to give an example.
I'm sure you've at least skimmed through these posts here, but let me just say South and Central America. I'm sure you can figure the rest out.
Jeez, what has slashdot come to these days when even the employees are trolling? Well, I'm done feeding this here troll.
You really don't see the difference?
One is called "international cooperation", the other is called "imperialism".
Yes, that was my original point. Good on you for noticing.
Let me correct that for you: A paid "slave" to ONESELF and others.
You see, it's not like "the state" (ooh scary) stealing your money and giving it to someone else; society as a whole - including YOU - benefits from paying taxes.
In fact I reap the benefits of it every single day. Free or subventionized education, healthcare, infrastructure and much, much more.
Help your neighbors, is that such a hard concept to grasp?
A 60 percent taxation rate is uncivilized.
Is it? How do you figure (he queried, knowing the answer)?
If it weren't for the U.S. involvement in WWI and WWII, Sweden would be speaking German today, so how's about you get some fucking perspective? Is that too much to ask (he queried, knowing the answer)?
So, instead of flogging that dead horse, how about you tell us WHY you think the U.S. is entitled to the moniker "peaceful and civilized"?
Peaceful it sure isn't, as illustrated by 30+ wars and so-called "police actions" in the 20th century.
Civilized? Debatable, with the rampant flaws in its electoral system, judicial system and social welfare system. Murder on the streets, capitalism ensuring the rich get richer while the poor get poorer. Corporate money buying laws, buying politicians, buying all the mom and pop's all over the country. Blatant disregard for international treaties and a will and a way to impose this on unwilling nations all around the globe.
So, tell us WHY the U.S. should be considered "peaceful and civilized", because I sure can't see it.
"A peaceful and civilized nation"? Is there any nation fitting that description anywhere?
Sweden, maybe.
It's certainly not the U.S., what with all the wars it's been involved in in just the last century.
But you say "allows us" as if the U.S. is exactly what you mean - and the bomb TFA is about is a U.S. weapon - so I must draw the conclusion that you're living under the delusion that the U.S. is "peaceful and civilized", with "the best technology, industry, and economy[!]".
Please wake up.
I too taught myself programming with BASIC, but a tad bit earlier than you - around the year the article is about to be honest, maybe a year or two later... Sinclair ZX-80, let me count the ways I'm thankful to you :)
BASIC -> Z80 assembler -> DOS batch -> bash -> Perl -> Java, sometimes I miss the early days of typing in code listings from ZX Magazine and the like, trying to find out why the code worked (or not, more likely). Aah, better days - or maybe it was just that I was better then ;)
Warhammer Online also had the misfortune of being run by GOA here in Europe, which is a death-sentence to any MMO.
Too bad, the game had (and still has) huge potential, but I'm guessing that it's now on Mythic's back-burner and they just want to keep it running while they squeeze out a few more subscription dollars.
(played since open beta, still play occasionally, but not at all happy with where the game is)