I would not ever voluntarily go talk to a cop or walk into a cop station, these days. you put yourself at risk every time you encounter one of those guys.
You've got serious problems there if a law abiding citizen cannot talk to the cops.
You said it, not me....
Now if only everyone else could connect those dots and vote/run for office appropriately.
It must be doing great. He has enough money to have enough free time to post about it on slashdot.
:D
Actually, it was a great and formative part of my elementary school education, and served me well when doing week-long hikes in the mountains. Iodine tablets run out pretty fast, but there's usually a good supply of sapwood around, even in alpine country. Knowing how to use the bark from various trees to create cooking implements, pitch as a disinfectant/injury cover, etc. also helps, even when you've got a decent first-aid kit. Knowing how to forage for fruits and veggies that are nutritious instead of lethal is always useful too. Knowing how to fend off the old woman of the woods, not so much. Knowing how to avoid the thunderbird, well, that's generally taught to everyone anyway:)
Most people need clean water on a regular basis and cannot accommodate waiting for a tree to grow to quench their thirst.
Where did I say it was a perfect solution? At least it's something more than "dur, you have to buy trees from someone."
Do you have anything relevant and useful to add, or did you just come here to whine that the solution I offered isn't perfect?
You offered a solution? I thought your original comment was gloating about how you can do an end-run around the capitalists by using this already proposed solution. Then you summed up my qualified response as "'your idea isn't perfect, therefore it's a bad idea' is the thought process of a complete, abject moron" despite the fact that neither I nor anyone else said anything about you having a bad idea -- we just stated that your argument was limited. The original concept (using objects found in the natural environment to improve the local welfare) is great. That's not yours though -- it's been handed down for thousands of years, and recently a more formalized paper was published exploring the idea. Or are you one of the people who conducted the study?
If this is true, then this is a really profound discovery that could help millions of people.
What I'm wondering, is why no other society, that we know of, has discovered this low-tech, yet seemingly incredibly useful thing previously?
Well, I learned this technique as part of my Aboriginal American studies when I was growing up -- I think it's more likely that our western culture has "lost" this knowledge than that nobody has discovered it before.
Well, it's not completely free -- someone likely owns those trees. And people living in desert regions of the world don't have easy access to sapwood -- nor do people in parts of the world where the sapwood is of the wrong consistency in local trees (hardwoods, for example).
24So the people grumbled at Moses, saying, "What shall we drink?" 25Then he cried out to the LORD, and the LORD showed him a tree; and he threw it into the waters, and the waters became sweet.
is that traditional investigative work functions to capture people, and not indiscriminate collection of meta data.
Actually, I suspect that in the near future we'll find out that the NSA cracked the phones or something. I find it hard to believe the Mexican/US government couldn't have nailed this guy years ago. They usually leave these "Big fish" alone because a headless cartel is less predictable than one with a boss they can manipulate and control. I suspect this is all an orchestrated publicity stunt.
"Mexican authorities (moving on American intelligence work) successfully carried out a number of raids...."
Yup; either he stopped behaving "predictably" or they had some other reason to shut him down. I found it interesting that they didn't even use the "false trail" trick of having Mexican authorities carrying out a "routine inspection" that just happened to coincide with some American Intelligence which suggested they carry out this inspection. I guess when it's not in the US, they can be more active (as there's nothing illegal about American Intelligence knowing everything about what goes on in other countries).
Do Tesla cars actually have a digital vroom vroom? Because they sure don't have a mechanical one.
And as for the digital crap: Tesla cars are already fully digital, with OTA firmware updates. They also fully track where you go and what you do (to Tesla, not the car owner), as some of the early/. articles on the Model-S pointed out while attempting to prove another point.
So do you want Apple's closed source spying on you, or Musk's closed source? Or some open source, for that matter...?
Look at what Tesla is doing: the first X amount of power is free -- but they've got so many hooks into how the car runs that they can enable/disable features remotely and know more about how/when/where you drive than you do yourself. Remember that Musk is of PayPal fame -- it's really a very similar business model, just with cars instead of payments. Expect the maturation process to run along similar lines.
Because the short work week in France and long siesta in Spain is doing wonders for their respective economies. Furthermore, the majority of Americans don't work as hard as everyone seems to believe. You don't know what being overworked is until you've been anywhere in Asia; they just don't complain about it like Americans do.
There are different kinds of hard work. Germany is doing well, despite the massive amounts of holiday time they get. Canada's doing pretty well despite the significant number of crown corporations (read: socialized infrastructure). Farmers in the US work hard, but are being edged out. Many in the IT industry in the US are working 60-80hr work weeks (as are many CEOs and other C level employees). When you get beyond that point, you have to make up the losses in quality with quantity of workers -- which is what has traditionally been done in many parts of Asia; but they're trying to change that now, which will undoubtedly result in higher pay and shorter hours if they want to compete (at least for the managers and designers) after taking on board all the lessons learned from watching the West.
All it means is that they'll increase their lawsuit damage claims by the adjusted amount. After all, the member companies have never made a profit on a movie.
I'm not sure how many people are interested in the electric motor in the Tesla; I'm not. I'm more interested in their development methodology and their software/hardware interface.
That said, the Q50 is indeed worthy of a mention -- why not submit a few articles about it? After all, that's what gets Tesla mentioned -- people find it interesting enough to submit articles until a few of them stick to the front page.
I get the Slashdot love for autonomous cars. Running off of computer, pushing the limits of AI, society having to come to terms with legal and liability issues raised by new technology. Good stuff.
But why should running off of electricity somehow make a car interesting? Because it's "new"? No, people have experimented with electric cars since the 19th century, the main difference now is we have batteries that make it semi-practical. Because storing power in a battery gives it something in common with geeky devices like laptops and tablets? Because some geeks also happen to be into environmental causes? Seriously, what is so exciting about this car that it gets so many Slashdot stories?
It isn't that it runs off of electricity -- it's that it does it in a way that is comparable with an ICE vehicle, combined with the development strategy that Musk uses at the company, plus the fact that this is an OTA reprogrammable software-controlled drive-by-wire vehicle.
Basically, there's a lot of nerdy stuff going on here, and nerds are interested in how it turns out. If this were done in an ICE vehicle, there'd probably also be a significant amount of interest -- but all the traditional manufacturers tend to stick to traditional design, manufacturing, and development methods (we even had a slashdot article on this exact issue not too long ago). Batteries? They're really not what all the hoopla is about. Nerds are fascinated by design and implementation, not by batteries.
As for your last question... Nissan is apparently asking the same question:) I hope they find the answer, as it would be great to have competition in the "let's do things in a new way" department.
Think of it as Indy music vs the RIAA, but swap Tesla in for the Indy producer and the MV conglomerate for the RIAA. Same story, different industry. So far though, the MV industry seems to be getting it, even if they're moving slowly. Probably due to the fact that our lives are on the line in their industry.
Isn't it the person who shared the data who broke the law rather than the person who downloaded it? The downloader is only implicated because they were 'sharing' it on the torrent whilst they were downloading. If the downloaded used http rather than a torrent they haven't broken a law. Is that correct?
It used to be; copyright law has changed a bit in the past 15 years though. Now you can actually face some penalties in some places solely for receiving information that you could be reasonably aware wasn't coming through authorized channels (note, this isn't for downloading, but for knowingly receiving *information* known to be ilegally made available). This is up to the court, however, I don't think there's a solid set of case law one way or the other on the books.
Someone did a study a while back and found that the amount of money the RIAA/MPAA has spent on legal costs far exceeds the amount of money they have received in settlements.
Well, that's certainly business as usual for the members of the MPAA. After all, no Hollywood movie has EVER turned a profit.
I always wondered how they showed this in their SEC filings. If movies aren't making a profit, how do they account this to their shareholders? Merchandizing based on the movie? Wouldn't that be derivative profits?
Oh wait... this astroturf is being provided by the cabletelcos, right?
If this argument were true, than when telephones were introduced (require landlines) it must have created a huge information divide. Then, when cable companies came along and allowed you to watch 20 times the TV channels than OTA, this must have got even WORSE. Learning hampered, communication blockaded for people without somewhere to hook up their TV and phone.
So let's make the cable and telephone companies give away high speed bandwith over the air, and see if that closes up this huge gulf we've been experiencing for the past 75+ years.
Hybrid in that the actuators and other mechanical parts are machined, and the "chassis" if you will, was printed. Basically, the parts that connect to her body are printed, and provide an interface to the machined bits that do the heavy lifting.
So I'm happy with calling it "hybrid". That just means it's not all machined/cast, and not all printed.
Thanks! I'm glad you backed up my inbox for me. I'll send you the appropriate hash when I want to roll back to those contents.
I think you miss the point here -- this is a list of hashes Valve has created, not a random list of hashed contents of your DNS cache. They created the original hashes, they're storing the results paired against UID when they find people who match the "interesting" hashes. They know what those hashes represent, and are guaranteed to keep a mapping list.
Your argument is out of context with the thread discussion.
In this case, I doubt it -- the TLA can et the DNS history directly from your ISP. Unless the TLA was targeting a specific set of Steam users, it wouldn't give them anything useful.
Now if it hashed and uploaded your entire DNS history....
So are you saying that if I go through your mail and send the contents of anything that looks sketchy to someone, that's bad... but if I translate the contents into a different language before I send them, that's OK?
Oh, if the FBI had evidence that you'd, say, been sending letters to terrorist cells, then yes, I think it would be totally reasonable for them to go through your mail. If they had no such suspicion, no, that wouldn't be reasonable. That's the analogy that (somewhat works).
That comment wasn't about whether going through the mail was reasonable, it was about whether translating the mail before sending it back somehow changed its legality or "OK"ness. There's nothing magic about a hash.
So why should they care about your rights when you are violating theirs?
Visiting a website isn't violating their rights.
However, unless the trigger that causes the lookup is an FP, they are within their rights to terminate the contract.
So the issue here is that they're exfiltrating data, not that they're checking the site and terminating the contract.
As a comparison, if I were doing drugs, that doesn't give the police the right to bust down my door to search for drugs. A warrant based on suspicious activity gives them that right. This is equivalent to "that guy looks shady, lets search his place and see if there are indications he has visited those shady places". Police need a warrant for that. Valve is not the police, so this could get them prosecuted under the same hacking laws that would apply to you or me searching someone's computer without authorization.
What they SHOULD be doing is downloading their hash list to YOUR computer, comparing THEIR list against your cache, and setting a flag if there's a match.
This is what they are claiming to do. The particular hash and details of the first cheat check that lead to the DNS check only get sent back after they did a comparison to known cheat DRM services.
No; they shouldn't be sending back the hash -- a "hash" of a domain is equivalent to the domain itself; there's nothing being hidden. They should send back the result of the hash comparison if there's a match.
If you think looking at DNS is abusive, you probably don't want to know what it takes to find installed rootkit based cheats or similar. The fact that they are only sending hashes of the names found, in my mind, makes this a reasonable approach as a 2nd pass to verify that they don't have false positives. From the way I read this, the idea is to do a 2nd check just to verify that the first check didn't flag you incorrectly.
So are you saying that if I go through your mail and send the contents of anything that looks sketchy to someone, that's bad... but if I translate the contents into a different language before I send them, that's OK?
A hash is just a shortened form of the same thing. If a hash is being sent, Valve knows the site was in your DNS cache.
What they SHOULD be doing is downloading their hash list to YOUR computer, comparing THEIR list against your cache, and setting a flag if there's a match. Then, if the suspected cheat algorithm is triggered, it can check that flag (which is, of course, signed with a public key) to see its value.
This way, they've got their "possible cheat sign" without sending details back to their servers where they can track.
You see, when they're sending hashes back, they're collecting a history on each user that they can then store for as long as they feel like. They know which suspect site you've visited (after all, THEY hashed the domain in the first place; they know what it is), and the system can be easily abused.
Of course, if it's done locally, then all it takes is a quick hack to get around the detection system, and they're no further ahead. But now that the system is known, all people have to do is flush their DNS cache prior to playing and THIS system is stymied too.
They're calling it FCC. (Future Circular Colliders). What a stupid choice. I mean its bound to cause some confusion that could have very easily been avoided. I realise the FCC (Federal Communications Commission) isn't a global organization but you'd think CERN would have the brains and foresight to avoid reuse of already long established and very well-known acronyms.
Slashdot Mirror
Two words:
Robotic Exoskeleton
I would not ever voluntarily go talk to a cop or walk into a cop station, these days. you put yourself at risk every time you encounter one of those guys.
You've got serious problems there if a law abiding citizen cannot talk to the cops.
You said it, not me....
Now if only everyone else could connect those dots and vote/run for office appropriately.
It must be doing great. He has enough money to have enough free time to post about it on slashdot.
:D
Actually, it was a great and formative part of my elementary school education, and served me well when doing week-long hikes in the mountains. Iodine tablets run out pretty fast, but there's usually a good supply of sapwood around, even in alpine country. Knowing how to use the bark from various trees to create cooking implements, pitch as a disinfectant/injury cover, etc. also helps, even when you've got a decent first-aid kit. Knowing how to forage for fruits and veggies that are nutritious instead of lethal is always useful too. Knowing how to fend off the old woman of the woods, not so much. Knowing how to avoid the thunderbird, well, that's generally taught to everyone anyway :)
Most people need clean water on a regular basis and cannot accommodate waiting for a tree to grow to quench their thirst.
Where did I say it was a perfect solution? At least it's something more than "dur, you have to buy trees from someone."
Do you have anything relevant and useful to add, or did you just come here to whine that the solution I offered isn't perfect?
You offered a solution? I thought your original comment was gloating about how you can do an end-run around the capitalists by using this already proposed solution. Then you summed up my qualified response as "'your idea isn't perfect, therefore it's a bad idea' is the thought process of a complete, abject moron" despite the fact that neither I nor anyone else said anything about you having a bad idea -- we just stated that your argument was limited. The original concept (using objects found in the natural environment to improve the local welfare) is great. That's not yours though -- it's been handed down for thousands of years, and recently a more formalized paper was published exploring the idea. Or are you one of the people who conducted the study?
If this is true, then this is a really profound discovery that could help millions of people.
What I'm wondering, is why no other society, that we know of, has discovered this low-tech, yet seemingly incredibly useful thing previously?
Well, I learned this technique as part of my Aboriginal American studies when I was growing up -- I think it's more likely that our western culture has "lost" this knowledge than that nobody has discovered it before.
Well, it's not completely free -- someone likely owns those trees. And people living in desert regions of the world don't have easy access to sapwood -- nor do people in parts of the world where the sapwood is of the wrong consistency in local trees (hardwoods, for example).
24So the people grumbled at Moses, saying, "What shall we drink?" 25Then he cried out to the LORD, and the LORD showed him a tree; and he threw it into the waters, and the waters became sweet.
is that traditional investigative work functions to capture people, and not indiscriminate collection of meta data.
Actually, I suspect that in the near future we'll find out that the NSA cracked the phones or something. I find it hard to believe the Mexican/US government couldn't have nailed this guy years ago. They usually leave these "Big fish" alone because a headless cartel is less predictable than one with a boss they can manipulate and control. I suspect this is all an orchestrated publicity stunt.
"Mexican authorities (moving on American intelligence work) successfully carried out a number of raids...."
Yup; either he stopped behaving "predictably" or they had some other reason to shut him down. I found it interesting that they didn't even use the "false trail" trick of having Mexican authorities carrying out a "routine inspection" that just happened to coincide with some American Intelligence which suggested they carry out this inspection. I guess when it's not in the US, they can be more active (as there's nothing illegal about American Intelligence knowing everything about what goes on in other countries).
Do Tesla cars actually have a digital vroom vroom? Because they sure don't have a mechanical one.
And as for the digital crap: Tesla cars are already fully digital, with OTA firmware updates. They also fully track where you go and what you do (to Tesla, not the car owner), as some of the early /. articles on the Model-S pointed out while attempting to prove another point.
So do you want Apple's closed source spying on you, or Musk's closed source? Or some open source, for that matter...?
Look at what Tesla is doing: the first X amount of power is free -- but they've got so many hooks into how the car runs that they can enable/disable features remotely and know more about how/when/where you drive than you do yourself. Remember that Musk is of PayPal fame -- it's really a very similar business model, just with cars instead of payments. Expect the maturation process to run along similar lines.
Because the short work week in France and long siesta in Spain is doing wonders for their respective economies. Furthermore, the majority of Americans don't work as hard as everyone seems to believe. You don't know what being overworked is until you've been anywhere in Asia; they just don't complain about it like Americans do.
There are different kinds of hard work. Germany is doing well, despite the massive amounts of holiday time they get. Canada's doing pretty well despite the significant number of crown corporations (read: socialized infrastructure). Farmers in the US work hard, but are being edged out. Many in the IT industry in the US are working 60-80hr work weeks (as are many CEOs and other C level employees). When you get beyond that point, you have to make up the losses in quality with quantity of workers -- which is what has traditionally been done in many parts of Asia; but they're trying to change that now, which will undoubtedly result in higher pay and shorter hours if they want to compete (at least for the managers and designers) after taking on board all the lessons learned from watching the West.
That's what you get MPAA
All it means is that they'll increase their lawsuit damage claims by the adjusted amount. After all, the member companies have never made a profit on a movie.
I'm not sure how many people are interested in the electric motor in the Tesla; I'm not. I'm more interested in their development methodology and their software/hardware interface.
That said, the Q50 is indeed worthy of a mention -- why not submit a few articles about it? After all, that's what gets Tesla mentioned -- people find it interesting enough to submit articles until a few of them stick to the front page.
I get the Slashdot love for autonomous cars. Running off of computer, pushing the limits of AI, society having to come to terms with legal and liability issues raised by new technology. Good stuff.
But why should running off of electricity somehow make a car interesting? Because it's "new"? No, people have experimented with electric cars since the 19th century, the main difference now is we have batteries that make it semi-practical. Because storing power in a battery gives it something in common with geeky devices like laptops and tablets? Because some geeks also happen to be into environmental causes? Seriously, what is so exciting about this car that it gets so many Slashdot stories?
It isn't that it runs off of electricity -- it's that it does it in a way that is comparable with an ICE vehicle, combined with the development strategy that Musk uses at the company, plus the fact that this is an OTA reprogrammable software-controlled drive-by-wire vehicle.
Basically, there's a lot of nerdy stuff going on here, and nerds are interested in how it turns out. If this were done in an ICE vehicle, there'd probably also be a significant amount of interest -- but all the traditional manufacturers tend to stick to traditional design, manufacturing, and development methods (we even had a slashdot article on this exact issue not too long ago). Batteries? They're really not what all the hoopla is about. Nerds are fascinated by design and implementation, not by batteries.
As for your last question... Nissan is apparently asking the same question :) I hope they find the answer, as it would be great to have competition in the "let's do things in a new way" department.
Think of it as Indy music vs the RIAA, but swap Tesla in for the Indy producer and the MV conglomerate for the RIAA. Same story, different industry. So far though, the MV industry seems to be getting it, even if they're moving slowly. Probably due to the fact that our lives are on the line in their industry.
Isn't it the person who shared the data who broke the law rather than the person who downloaded it? The downloader is only implicated because they were 'sharing' it on the torrent whilst they were downloading. If the downloaded used http rather than a torrent they haven't broken a law. Is that correct?
It used to be; copyright law has changed a bit in the past 15 years though. Now you can actually face some penalties in some places solely for receiving information that you could be reasonably aware wasn't coming through authorized channels (note, this isn't for downloading, but for knowingly receiving *information* known to be ilegally made available). This is up to the court, however, I don't think there's a solid set of case law one way or the other on the books.
Someone did a study a while back and found that the amount of money the RIAA/MPAA has spent on legal costs far exceeds the amount of money they have received in settlements.
Well, that's certainly business as usual for the members of the MPAA. After all, no Hollywood movie has EVER turned a profit.
I always wondered how they showed this in their SEC filings. If movies aren't making a profit, how do they account this to their shareholders? Merchandizing based on the movie? Wouldn't that be derivative profits?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
Oh wait... this astroturf is being provided by the cabletelcos, right?
If this argument were true, than when telephones were introduced (require landlines) it must have created a huge information divide. Then, when cable companies came along and allowed you to watch 20 times the TV channels than OTA, this must have got even WORSE. Learning hampered, communication blockaded for people without somewhere to hook up their TV and phone.
So let's make the cable and telephone companies give away high speed bandwith over the air, and see if that closes up this huge gulf we've been experiencing for the past 75+ years.
Hybrid in that the actuators and other mechanical parts are machined, and the "chassis" if you will, was printed. Basically, the parts that connect to her body are printed, and provide an interface to the machined bits that do the heavy lifting.
So I'm happy with calling it "hybrid". That just means it's not all machined/cast, and not all printed.
Thanks! I'm glad you backed up my inbox for me. I'll send you the appropriate hash when I want to roll back to those contents.
I think you miss the point here -- this is a list of hashes Valve has created, not a random list of hashed contents of your DNS cache. They created the original hashes, they're storing the results paired against UID when they find people who match the "interesting" hashes. They know what those hashes represent, and are guaranteed to keep a mapping list.
Your argument is out of context with the thread discussion.
In this case, I doubt it -- the TLA can et the DNS history directly from your ISP. Unless the TLA was targeting a specific set of Steam users, it wouldn't give them anything useful.
Now if it hashed and uploaded your entire DNS history....
So are you saying that if I go through your mail and send the contents of anything that looks sketchy to someone, that's bad... but if I translate the contents into a different language before I send them, that's OK?
Oh, if the FBI had evidence that you'd, say, been sending letters to terrorist cells, then yes, I think it would be totally reasonable for them to go through your mail. If they had no such suspicion, no, that wouldn't be reasonable. That's the analogy that (somewhat works).
That comment wasn't about whether going through the mail was reasonable, it was about whether translating the mail before sending it back somehow changed its legality or "OK"ness. There's nothing magic about a hash.
So why should they care about your rights when you are violating theirs?
Visiting a website isn't violating their rights.
However, unless the trigger that causes the lookup is an FP, they are within their rights to terminate the contract.
So the issue here is that they're exfiltrating data, not that they're checking the site and terminating the contract.
As a comparison, if I were doing drugs, that doesn't give the police the right to bust down my door to search for drugs. A warrant based on suspicious activity gives them that right. This is equivalent to "that guy looks shady, lets search his place and see if there are indications he has visited those shady places". Police need a warrant for that. Valve is not the police, so this could get them prosecuted under the same hacking laws that would apply to you or me searching someone's computer without authorization.
What they SHOULD be doing is downloading their hash list to YOUR computer, comparing THEIR list against your cache, and setting a flag if there's a match.
This is what they are claiming to do. The particular hash and details of the first cheat check that lead to the DNS check only get sent back after they did a comparison to known cheat DRM services.
No; they shouldn't be sending back the hash -- a "hash" of a domain is equivalent to the domain itself; there's nothing being hidden. They should send back the result of the hash comparison if there's a match.
If you think looking at DNS is abusive, you probably don't want to know what it takes to find installed rootkit based cheats or similar. The fact that they are only sending hashes of the names found, in my mind, makes this a reasonable approach as a 2nd pass to verify that they don't have false positives. From the way I read this, the idea is to do a 2nd check just to verify that the first check didn't flag you incorrectly.
So are you saying that if I go through your mail and send the contents of anything that looks sketchy to someone, that's bad... but if I translate the contents into a different language before I send them, that's OK?
A hash is just a shortened form of the same thing. If a hash is being sent, Valve knows the site was in your DNS cache.
What they SHOULD be doing is downloading their hash list to YOUR computer, comparing THEIR list against your cache, and setting a flag if there's a match. Then, if the suspected cheat algorithm is triggered, it can check that flag (which is, of course, signed with a public key) to see its value.
This way, they've got their "possible cheat sign" without sending details back to their servers where they can track.
You see, when they're sending hashes back, they're collecting a history on each user that they can then store for as long as they feel like. They know which suspect site you've visited (after all, THEY hashed the domain in the first place; they know what it is), and the system can be easily abused.
Of course, if it's done locally, then all it takes is a quick hack to get around the detection system, and they're no further ahead. But now that the system is known, all people have to do is flush their DNS cache prior to playing and THIS system is stymied too.
They're calling it FCC. (Future Circular Colliders). What a stupid choice. I mean its bound to cause some confusion that could have very easily been avoided.
I realise the FCC (Federal Communications Commission) isn't a global organization but you'd think CERN would have the brains and foresight to avoid reuse of already long established and very well-known acronyms.
Heard about the new website called whack-period?