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Water Filtration With a Tree Branch

Taco Cowboy writes "Dirty water is a major cause of mortality in the developing world. 'The most common water-borne pathogens are bacteria (e.g. Escherichia coli, Salmonella typhi, Vibrio cholerae), viruses (e.g. adenoviruses, enteroviruses, hepatitis, rotavirus), and protozoa (e.g. giardia). These pathogens cause child mortality and also contribute to malnutrition and stunted growth of children.' People have been working on engineering cheaper and cheaper filtration systems for years, but now a group of researchers has found a promising and simple solution: a tree branch. 'Approximately 3 cm^3 of sapwood can filter water at the rate of several liters per day, sufficient to meet the clean drinking water needs of one person.' 'Before experimenting with contaminated water, the group used water mixed with red ink particles ranging from 70 to 500 nanometers in size. After all the liquid passed through, the researchers sliced the sapwood in half lengthwise, and observed that much of the red dye was contained within the very top layers of the wood, while the filtrate, or filtered water, was clear. This experiment showed that sapwood is naturally able to filter out particles bigger than about 70 nanometers.' The team tested E. coli-contaminated water, and the branch was able to filter out 99 percent of the bacterial cells."

205 comments

  1. First time? by DogDude · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If this is true, then this is a really profound discovery that could help millions of people.

    What I'm wondering, is why no other society, that we know of, has discovered this low-tech, yet seemingly incredibly useful thing previously?

    --
    I don't respond to AC's.
    1. Re:First time? by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      If this is true, then this is a really profound discovery that could help millions of people. What I'm wondering, is why no other society, that we know of, has discovered this low-tech, yet seemingly incredibly useful thing previously?

      Maybe because all of the other materials and equipment required to make it work.

    2. Re:First time? by i+kan+reed · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ideas can be publicized, studied in more detail, or put to good use, without being truly new.

    3. Re:First time? by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 4, Interesting

      24So the people grumbled at Moses, saying, "What shall we drink?" 25Then he cried out to the LORD, and the LORD showed him a tree; and he threw it into the waters, and the waters became sweet.

    4. Re:First time? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      If this is true, then this is a really profound discovery that could help millions of people.

      What I'm wondering, is why no other society, that we know of, has discovered this low-tech, yet seemingly incredibly useful thing previously?

      Maybe because all of the other materials and equipment required to make it work.

      You mean like some sort of cutting implement to cut down the branch?

      I think the hatchet was invented at least 10 years ago?

    5. Re:First time? by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 5, Informative

      If this is true, then this is a really profound discovery that could help millions of people.

      What I'm wondering, is why no other society, that we know of, has discovered this low-tech, yet seemingly incredibly useful thing previously?

      Well, I learned this technique as part of my Aboriginal American studies when I was growing up -- I think it's more likely that our western culture has "lost" this knowledge than that nobody has discovered it before.

    6. Re:First time? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Also, knowing that water passes through a tree (Um... duh?) is different than knowing that it can be used as an actual filtration device... is different than knowing how sustainable and marketable it is.

    7. Re:First time? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also it's pretty well known (I thought) that you can get drinking water from plants.

    8. Re:First time? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 5, Funny

      1) Someone mentions a new discovery.
      2) Find a passage in the Bible containing the (rather common) keywords, without actually using your brain to check that the passage has identical informational value.
      3) ???
      4) Prophet!

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    9. Re:First time? by knarfling · · Score: 1

      Probably because the wood has to remain damp in order to be effective. Once the wood dries, it loses the ability to filter well. Water runs through crack and the pores don't filter properly.

      This is not something you could set up, let sit in storage for a few weeks, pull it out and expect it to be effective.

      It looks like it would be most effective on a small but not personal level. With a small group you could filter enough water to keep the wood damp for a long time, replacing the "filter" as needed. Sounds great for villages in developing countries, but it doesn't look like it would scale very well.

      --
      Great civilizations have lived and died on false theories. Don't mess up mine with a few facts.
    10. Re:First time? by Ex-MislTech · · Score: 2

      There are other methods like slow sand filter, bio sand filter, and solar disinfection.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Thou with SODIS use glass if you can do to the endocrine disruptors BPA and BPS
      being in most plastic bottles.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
    11. Re:First time? by hawguy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If this is true, then this is a really profound discovery that could help millions of people.

      What I'm wondering, is why no other society, that we know of, has discovered this low-tech, yet seemingly incredibly useful thing previously?

      For one thing, it doesn't filter viruses, so maybe it's already been evaluated and dicarded as a good solution. From TFA:

      Karnik says sapwood likely can filter most types of bacteria, the smallest of which measure about 200 nanometers. However, the filter probably cannot trap most viruses, which are much smaller in size.

      So it's of limited utility, since, as the summary says, common pathogens include viruses (e.g. adenoviruses, enteroviruses, hepatitis, rotavirus) -- for example, rotavirus is around 30nm in size, less than half the effective filtering size of the wood.

      So the water will probably still need chemical or UV treatment after filtering.

      Plus it's not clear how well it would work in the field, when the scientists built their filter:

      They cut small sections of sapwood measuring about an inch long and half an inch wide, and mounted each in plastic tubing, sealed with epoxy and secured with clamps.

      So while wood as a filter medium sounds attractive, if the user needs specialized equipment to get it to make a safe, water-tight seal, maybe it's not as useful in an area with limited resources.

    12. Re:First time? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Most-probable reason it's not widely known or used:

      Trees aren't patentable.

      Yet.

    13. Re:First time? by Ex-MislTech · · Score: 1

      Maybe it was shunned in the pursuit of making money ? LOL

      --
      google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
    14. Re:First time? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      1) Someone posts a bible verse
      2) Become overjoyed at discovery of opportunity for gratuitous atheistic hate
      3) Recognize poster made no claim beyond interesting anecdote, assert he did anyway
      4) Realize equivalent anecdote would prompt no reaction at all for you if it weren't associatable with a religion, Christianity in particular
      5) ???
      6) Get eliminated by natural selection, become irrelevant

    15. Re:First time? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Sadly, glass is less effective because of its tendency to block UV. You have to let the water get up to temp in a glass bottle. I bought a cute little doodad with some kind of phase change wax sealed in glass that changes color (sort of) when the water reaches an adequate temperature.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    16. Re:First time? by jdschulteis · · Score: 1

      Thou with SODIS use glass if you can do to the endocrine disruptors BPA and BPS being in most plastic bottles.

      The very Wikipedia article you linked to says to use PTE bottles, because some glass bottles will absorb the UV before it gets to the water, and that the leaching of material from plastic bottles into the water has been studied and found not to be of concern.

    17. Re:First time? by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Sounds great for villages in developing countries, but it doesn't look like it would scale very well.

      Um, isn't that the whole idea here? I don't think anyone's thinking of using tree branch slices for commercial-quality water filtration in Western countries. No one's going to start selling tree branch slice filters for Samsung and GE refrigerators and Pur faucet adapters. The whole idea here is to come up with ultra-cheap, low-tech, but effective methods of improving quality of life and health and sanitation in very poor developing countries.

    18. Re:First time? by MightyYar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When people have to hike for miles to find wood for cooking fires, I'm not sure that fresh cut wood is all that practical.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    19. Re:First time? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think all you would need is a knife, a plastic bottle and another container to catch the water.

      Branches naturally taper, so select your branch piece accordingly, fill your bottle of water and use the piece of wood as a "stopper" by jamming it into the bottle neck real good.

      Turn the bottle upside down, poke a few holes in the (upside down) bottom to let air in, and suspend it over another container to catch the cleaner water that passes through the wood filter/stopper.

    20. Re:First time? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Just to make things clear, I'm in the habit of pointing out non sequiturs of any kind. Just so that you won't overjoyed at discovery of opportunity for gratuitous anti-atheistic hate.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    21. Re:First time? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which is, of course, the only circumstance where you'd lack clean drinking water. Obviously if you have access to trees you also have access to a modern water treatment facility.

    22. Re:First time? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then use solar stills. They are extremely easy to set up and you can use practically anything laying around to do it.

      You could also boil and/or add iodine to water to make it drinkable.

    23. Re:First time? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So that he won't overjoyed at discovery? Non sequitur much?

      Nice going, Kai-O-Sucky.

    24. Re:First time? by shaitand · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that nobody has discovered this. The utility is likely somewhat reduced when you consider that A. places with trees everywhere generally have water about and B. tree branches rot.

    25. Re:First time? by MightyYar · · Score: 2

      If you have access to trees, plastic tubing, and some kind of sealant, then yeah, you probably have access to other methods... like boiling. I'm not saying this has no use, but in the crowded conditions where clean water is most needed it probably isn't practical as presented.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    26. Re:First time? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just want you to know that I read the Bible verse in your .sig and it has changed my life forever. Such is the power of Scripture!

    27. Re:First time? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am amused at your jest - not suffering from whoosh syndrome. But while the tech to create this is relatively simple, perhaps the tech to prove it does something is less so?

      Remember, phlogiston was still a viable theory less than two centuries ago.

    28. Re:First time? by rogoshen1 · · Score: 1

      Historically? Probably because how recently 'germs' were discovered to be the cause of these diseases, Recent history? Not much money in researching simple, easy to use technologies like this.

    29. Re:First time? by rogoshen1 · · Score: 1

      well, who knows if we could selectivity breed plants for their filtration ability? For Example, Green Revolution produced dramatically altered cereal grain plants (shorter, larger seeds) .

      Find something that grows quickly, and can filter water, and it might be scaleable on an industrial level

    30. Re:First time? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      How's that job in Aboriginal American Studies going for you, champ?

    31. Re:First time? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lol, you haven't a clue. I'm guessing you've never roughed it or been on a bivouac. You don't need all of that shit.

    32. Re:First time? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If this is true, then this is a really profound discovery that could help millions of people.

      What I'm wondering, is why no other society, that we know of, has discovered this low-tech, yet seemingly incredibly useful thing previously?

      Maybe because all of the other materials and equipment required to make it work.

      You mean like some sort of cutting implement to cut down the branch?

      I think the hatchet was invented at least 10 years ago?

      Real men use a double-headed axe.

    33. Re:First time? by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      Maybe because all of the other materials and equipment required to make it work.

      Fill a metal container with water, plug the opening with wood, heat, collect and condense steam.
      My brother and I used to do that sort of thing as kids (except the last bit). However if you take the wood out of the above method you have a normal still, villager's don't build stills because they require too much fuel.

      Another simple idea that I saw on Aussie TV a while back was simply to mix a bit of charcoal into clay and make it into a pot. The resulting pot is porous, fill it with raw sewerage and the water that drips from the bottom is clean enough to drink. The idea was for anyone to be able to make these pots in the village kiln. I'm not sure how well the idea caught on, but another "low tech" idea that I admire for it's simplicity is the pot in a pot cooler has apparently been a big hit.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    34. Re:First time? by Jmc23 · · Score: 1

      trees tend to not rot when constantly in water, that's why there's a big business harvesting them.

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    35. Re:First time? by gweihir · · Score: 1

      It is not a surprise. You can only find this technique if you understand what bacteria and viruses are. Unfortunately, much of the poverty of people without clean water comes in combination with lack of education and beliefs in "evil spirits" and such that cause sickness. That is not a basis you can make such discoveries on. Sure, individuals can and likely will have made that discovery, but it will not spread as people stick to their superstitions quite strongly. Just look at Europe before it had a somewhat accurate theory of what causes infections. Same nonsense.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    36. Re:First time? by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Is it incredibly useful? Is 99% good enough? How much E coli does it take to get ill? I doubt that it is good enough for viruses. Hepatitis A for example is 28nm while B is 40nm, enteroviruses average 27 to 30 nm. Even the Rotavirus is at the low end of the test at 80nm The test only filtered down to 70nm.
      Cool, interesting, but a major beak through? Maybe but I would not get so excited just yet.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    37. Re:First time? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A double headed axe is a waste of weight. Maybe if one head were a hammer..

    38. Re:First time? by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      I'm simply referring to the procedure used in TFA. I know, we're not supposed to read that...

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    39. Re:First time? by tragedy · · Score: 1
    40. Re:First time? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      It must be doing great. He has enough money to have enough free time to post about it on slashdot.

    41. Re:First time? by Ginger+Unicorn · · Score: 1

      That's a syntax error resulting from a typo, not a non-sequitur. Non-sequitur much?

      --
      (1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
    42. Re:First time? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      5)profit!

    43. Re:First time? by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      It must be doing great. He has enough money to have enough free time to post about it on slashdot.

      :D

      Actually, it was a great and formative part of my elementary school education, and served me well when doing week-long hikes in the mountains. Iodine tablets run out pretty fast, but there's usually a good supply of sapwood around, even in alpine country. Knowing how to use the bark from various trees to create cooking implements, pitch as a disinfectant/injury cover, etc. also helps, even when you've got a decent first-aid kit. Knowing how to forage for fruits and veggies that are nutritious instead of lethal is always useful too. Knowing how to fend off the old woman of the woods, not so much. Knowing how to avoid the thunderbird, well, that's generally taught to everyone anyway :)

    44. Re:First time? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, sure it is. Non sequitur and make excuses much?

    45. Re:First time? by Wycliffe · · Score: 1

      Who's to say the original poster isn't making a joke?
      Also, who's to say that the passage doesn't have a similiar basis that has been lost in translation.
      Check out "Was god a volcano": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

    46. Re:First time? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then you should have told someone in Africa so they could have clean water.

    47. Re:First time? by shaitand · · Score: 1

      Does this remain true when said trees no longer have leaves and photosynthesis happening? As far as I know beyond a brief river transport to a mill harvested trees generally are not constantly in water. Living trees are not USUALLY in constant contact with water. And dead trees that are in constant contact with water... well the ones I've seen are rotted.

      In any case. I wonder how this compares to the same wood, rendered to charcoal, and used as a filter. I thought the problem with areas with water shortage is they lack trees not that some charcoal and sand was unobtanium where trees are in fact already present.

    48. Re:First time? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Check out "Was god a volcano"

      Guys, we have another one! You, go with them. We have a nice padded cell for you, with a lot of beautiful volcano posters.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    49. Re:First time? by Jmc23 · · Score: 1
      Being 'in',i.e., submerged, water is different than floating on top of it. No sunlight, no oxygen, no bugs.

      btw, do you have any clue what kind of temperatures are needed to produce 'activated' charcoal? A bio sand filter is, so far, the cheapest, easiest to construct and maintain.

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    50. Re:First time? by Wycliffe · · Score: 1

      Check out "Was god a volcano"

      Guys, we have another one! You, go with them. We have a nice padded cell for you, with a lot of beautiful volcano posters.

      This coming from someone with a bizarre scripture in their signature. Did you even look at the video?
      My guess, based on your signature, it would probably be something you could possibly agree with.

    51. Re:First time? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      I don't need to. "God was a volcano" is a perennial (and notorious!) topic in Reddit's /r/Askhistorians and /r/badhistory forums (much like Holocaust denial and other similar topics), to the extent that even *I* am familiar with it. I would have thought that only the staunchest pseudo-scientists are still proposing this idea nowadays. It's sad to see Thunderf00t wasting his time with that. I respect his work in deconstructing creationism, but many smart people (Pauling, Shockley etc.) have had strange side interests, that much doesn't surprise me.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    52. Re:First time? by Ginger+Unicorn · · Score: 1

      You don't understand the meaning of the term "non-sequitur".

      --
      (1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
    53. Re:First time? by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      Sigh... next time, I'll have to quote the Bhagavad Gita....

      I thought the point was pretty obvious, and needed no explanation. I guess I should have known people would take umbrage at quoting a well-known document that talks about using wood to make water drinkable.

      The idea was to let people make up their own minds and possibly even check context for themselves. But I guess if you think of the Bible as something that was invented in the 3rd century AD, quoting it for its similarities to the topic at hand would seem idiotic. But then... it is still talking about using wood to make water drinkable, so that means that this is either a fluke in the 3rd century, or a few centuries earlier.

      Or, you could take this as a folk story passed down through the generations by the Israeli people, during which the actual interpretation of the original story, even in the original language, shifted a bit over time. Or, I guess, you could consider it a literal translation of a text that accurately recorded exactly what happened at a specific point in time. Any way you look at it though, someone thought water going through wood would make it drinkable (or that a magic log would make some water drinkable by its proximity).

    54. Re:First time? by shaitand · · Score: 1

      A thick layer of ordinary charcoal and sand followed by a boil works just fine for purifying water even if it's not space efficient. It's a survival 101 tactic.

  2. Most common pathogens by oodaloop · · Score: 1

    The most common water-borne pathogens are bacteria ...,viruses ...,and protozoa

    Well, that pretty much covers it I guess. I was surprised the kingdom animalia didn't make it on the list, but then hey, I'm no biologist.

    In all seriousness, this is a very interesting discovery and I hope it leads to cheap and widely accessible drinking water.

    --
    Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    1. Re:Most common pathogens by fustakrakich · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ...I hope it leads to cheap and widely accessible drinking water.

      Coca Cola and Pepsi will do all they can to make sure that never happens. Water is big business. That is why access is so difficult.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    2. Re: Most common pathogens by spune · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There already are low-cost, natural water filtration techniques being used across the world that produce clean water at a higher rate, like biosand filters. For water projects i have previously worked on, how quickly water is purified has been a significant practical concern for the folks who would benefit from the project. That was the reason that solar stills were dismissed, for example; they require more effort and materials to construct, but even then have a higher flow rate than the xylem filter. Also, how often the filter must be replaced is another big practicality issue.

    3. Re:Most common pathogens by gnick · · Score: 1

      We can never let that happen. As a member of PETP, I demand to know whether the trees were properly anesthetized prior to being bled alive, used without consent as subjects for scientific testing, and mutilated. If these trees were young, were their parents consulted? Color me outraged.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    4. Re:Most common pathogens by Ex-MislTech · · Score: 1

      Access to the sky for water is free in most states though a few totalitarian
      nut job states like Colorado make it illegal to collect water that falls on your roof....

      --
      google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
    5. Re:Most common pathogens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So non-nut-job states should allow me to dam up a river that flows through my property? You might want to look up what effect water rights actually have...

    6. Re:Most common pathogens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lol @ 15 litoshi tip

    7. Re:Most common pathogens by Pope · · Score: 1

      So that it flows back down into the water supply and keeps downstream places hydrated.

      --
      It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
    8. Re:Most common pathogens by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      There's a big difference between collecting rainwater on your roof and damming a stream or river. There's no valid reason to restrict the former, there's lots of good reasons to restrict the latter.

    9. Re:Most common pathogens by jpvlsmv · · Score: 4, Funny

      Water-borne pathogens in the kingdom Animalia are usually called "predators" rather than "pathogens". But yes, pathogens such as A. Mississippiensis can be filtered from the water with an appropriately-sized tree branch.

    10. Re:Most common pathogens by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

      In fact, there are places that regulate the opposite. If your property is paved over and does not absorb enough rainwater and dumps it into the storm drain system, there are extra fines/taxes.

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    11. Re:Most common pathogens by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      That makes sense; the storm drain system is only designed to handle so much water flow.

      Fining people for collecting rainwater in their houses makes no sense: the water is going to run onto the ground and be absorbed by the ground anyway. By collecting it and using it for your house's water systems (showers, toilets, etc.), all you're doing is adding a short delay to that process, before it goes into your septic system (assuming a rural house here; city-dwellers don't typically try to collect rainwater), and into the ground. You're also saving a lot of energy, because you only need to pump the water from your cistern (near ground level) to your plumbing outlets, rather than pumping well water up hundreds of feet, and you're leaving the water table alone. Some limits on cistern size might be warranted, but banning rainwater collection altogether is nonsensical and anti-environmental.

    12. Re:Most common pathogens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It might take several applications to work.

    13. Re:Most common pathogens by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      There's lots of rain falling out there over the oceans, but our economic/political system precludes collection and transportation to where it is needed.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    14. Re:Most common pathogens by tragedy · · Score: 1

      Unless the drains in the house lead somewhere very strange, that's going to happen anyway.

    15. Re:Most common pathogens by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

      In areas with municipal water supplies this reduces the burden on the drinking water supply. So I would say that this is still useful even in cities.

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
  3. Take That, Capitalists! by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

    HA!

    I always love it when somebody discovers a natural, free way to accomplish a goal that someone else wants to sell me a solution to.

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    1. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by Flatwater · · Score: 5, Funny

      Filtering out "99%" of harmful bacteria may be like filtering out 99% of bullets fired at you....

    2. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by CanHasDIY · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Filtering out "99%" of harmful bacteria may be like filtering out 99% of bullets fired at you....

      So, I take it you're not a fan of Lysol or Purell?

      What a silly thing to say; as if not filtering 99% of something harmful is a better idea...

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    3. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HA!

      I always love it when somebody discovers a natural, free way to accomplish a goal that someone else wants to sell me a solution to.

      You mean the system that brought you the keyboard, mouse, monitor, system, network, lights, desk, and chair that allowed you to post that drivel?

    4. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by Rhacman · · Score: 4, Funny

      Take what? Take their money to the bank when their plastic funnels and tree-branch-filtration kits sell like hotcakes to the very folks hoping to, ahem, "stick" it to the man?

      --
      Account -> Discussions -> Disable Sigs
    5. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 2

      Well, it's not completely free -- someone likely owns those trees. And people living in desert regions of the world don't have easy access to sapwood -- nor do people in parts of the world where the sapwood is of the wrong consistency in local trees (hardwoods, for example).

    6. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bleach kills 99.9998% of all Bacteria its not just better its orders of magnitude better. 99.0% is interesting but not enough to stop a water born pathogen getting into you if it is a very low supply in the source.

    7. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      Well, it's not completely free -- someone likely owns those trees. And people living in desert regions of the world don't have easy access to sapwood -- nor do people in parts of the world where the sapwood is of the wrong consistency in local trees (hardwoods, for example).

      Yea, guess you've got me - I mean, it's not like a person can just, you know, stick a seed in the ground, tend to it properly, and bada-bing-bada-boom, a tree will grow, right?

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    8. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by tomhath · · Score: 1

      somebody discovers a natural, free way to accomplish a goal

      Really? Doesn't look all that free or natural to me:

      1 inch-long sections were cut from a branch with approximately 1 cm diameter. The bark and cambium were peeled off, and the piece was mounted at the end of a tube and sealed with epoxy. The filters were flushed with 10 mL of deionized water before experiments. Care was taken to avoid drying of the filter.

      Approximately 5 mL of deionized water or solution was placed in the tube. Pressure was supplied using a nitrogen tank with a pressure regulator. For filtration experiments, 5 psi (34.5 kPa) pressure was used.

    9. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      Well played, Rhacman.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    10. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by alta · · Score: 2

      Yes, it is. And I'd rather be hit by the one bullet than all 100 of them. I'd stand a much better chance of living.

      Especially since there's a much better chance of your body's natural defenses defeating that 1%

      --
      Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
    11. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Well, it's not completely free"

      Of course it's not even a little bit free. Truth is it's not FREE at all.

      Trees have a cost, water has a cost, a saw has a cost, your time has a cost.

      Good grief, some people just don't seem to be able to think anything through.

      And aside from all of that, what the hell does any of this have to do with capitalism anyway?

    12. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you..what?

    13. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      I always love it when somebody discovers a natural, free way to accomplish a goal that someone else wants to sell me a solution to.

      This filtration requires use of Monsanto's patented PureWood trees. Use of any other wood type for filtration will result in severe DMCA penalties.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    14. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A computer is a luxury. Fresh drinking water is a necessity. There is a huge difference.

    15. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So you can get a filter in, say, 30 years? Lot of good that is going to do the family having to drink contaminated water tomorrow.

      Also, I never realized it was as easy as stick a seed in the ground and watch it grow in the desert.

    16. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by gnick · · Score: 2

      Maybe so, but do you blend bleach into all of your drinking water?

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    17. Re: Take That, Capitalists! by spune · · Score: 1

      Most people need clean water on a regular basis and cannot accommodate waiting for a tree to grow to quench their thirst.

    18. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, I take it you're not a fan of Lysol or Purell?

      Correct.

      But IANAB, so maybe the remaining 20,000 germs aren't as big of a deal as I think they are.

    19. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by canadiannomad · · Score: 1

      This process is also patented, use of wood for filtration will require royalty payments or hefty penalties.

      --
      Hmm, the humour and sarcasm seem to have been be lost on you.
    20. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not how bacteria in the human body works. It is more like filtering out 99% of the sun's UV rays. Look it up.

    21. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

      I'm pretty sure that law enforcement (in the US) and military (anywhere) would frenetically jump at the idea of body armor capable of reducing the probability of bullet injury by 99%.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    22. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I don't but my town water facility does. Fair chance yours does, too.

    23. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by Ex-MislTech · · Score: 1

      In the case of Purell, its Triclosan that is an issue.

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

      Maybe they have removed it, maybe not.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      On its own its not the worst threat in the environment, but when you add it along with
      others the combined threat is pretty bad and would explain the reduction of quality of
      health compared to some other nations.

      --
      google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
    24. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

      Yeah! Now all these people in the developing world have to do is chop down even more trees. Deforestation, YAY!. Oh, wait....

      Well, at least this will help people living in slums and favelas in places like Manila, Rio, etc. because sapwood is free, cheap, and highly available there. Oh.... wait...

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    25. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by denzacar · · Score: 1

      Bullets don't divide and multiply every 15-20 minutes while just sitting there in the air waiting to hit you.
      Or in the case of bacteria, while swimming there in the water you're still slowly filtering.

      However, this method is probably still useful for filtering out various other harmful particles found in water.
      And if you got wood and tools to construct a filtering apparatus, you can probably boil that filtered water too.
      Yeah, yeah, I know, they were testing this as a solution for people who can't afford burning all that fuel.

      And then there is the option of leaving the filtered water inside a transparent container, sitting in direct sunlight for a while, which they apparently haven't tested.

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    26. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by gnick · · Score: 1

      ...stick a seed in the ground...

      Have you checked the price of tree-worthy ground lately? Or materials to provide nutrients and hydration to said ground? I started digging a nursery on Broadway, but the local traffickers got all bent out of shape. Do you have a cow? Because I have a pocket full of very young trees I'd like to trade you.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    27. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by rgbscan · · Score: 1

      There's already a company selling a variant of this.... using a coconut shell based filtration system working on the same principle. www.drinksoma.com

    28. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 0

      A) How long is the person supposed to go without water while the tree grows? Or should the person drink the dirty water and possibly die before the tree is grown
      B) That assumes a tree of the right type will grow where the person is located. If the local climate is not conducive to trees growing, then the person will have a long wait.
      C) Assumes that the person will have the time and energy to "tend it properly". If one is spending 12 hours a day just to survive, tending a tree may not be possible.
      D) Assumes the person has access to enough land to grow a tree in the first place. There is not a lot of places to grow trees in favelas and urban slums in the second and third world.

      If it is so quick and easy because "stick a seed in the ground, tend to it properly, and bada-bing-bada-boom, a tree will grow", please grow one and let us know how long it takes.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    29. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 0

      Using the wood as a filter versus using it as firewood or building material has a cost.

      Using the wood as a filter versus carving it into a useful shape or something that can be sold has a cost.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    30. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You make these flamebait comments and claim someone is mod stalking you, although the system seems to be working as intended. Why not post straightforward contributions of deductive reason without acting like a child? Just a rational thought in your sea of wild vitrol and strange persecution complex.

    31. Re: Take That, Capitalists! by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      Most people need clean water on a regular basis and cannot accommodate waiting for a tree to grow to quench their thirst.

      Where did I say it was a perfect solution? At least it's something more than "dur, you have to buy trees from someone."

      Do you have anything relevant and useful to add, or did you just come here to whine that the solution I offered isn't perfect?

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    32. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      A) How long is the person supposed to go without water while the tree grows? Or should the person drink the dirty water and possibly die before the tree is grown

      B) That assumes a tree of the right type will grow where the person is located. If the local climate is not conducive to trees growing, then the person will have a long wait.

      C) Assumes that the person will have the time and energy to "tend it properly". If one is spending 12 hours a day just to survive, tending a tree may not be possible.

      D) Assumes the person has access to enough land to grow a tree in the first place. There is not a lot of places to grow trees in favelas and urban slums in the second and third world.

      I don't see you coming up with any better ideas.

      If it is so quick and easy because "stick a seed in the ground, tend to it properly, and bada-bing-bada-boom, a tree will grow", please grow one and let us know how long it takes.

      Depends on the tree, obviously.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    33. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not trying to be a jerk, but are you responding to me?

      Because I don't know what you are responding to. You state that wood has a cost, which is true, hence we agree.

      I can only guess you are responding to my last question, but you don't address it.

      Just the fact of something having a non zero cost has nothing to do with capitalism. Capitalism is an economic system, a "cost" is just a property, the two aren't the same thing.

      It's like saying electricity != a working television.

    34. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      ...stick a seed in the ground...

      Have you checked the price of tree-worthy ground lately? Or materials to provide nutrients and hydration to said ground? I started digging a nursery on Broadway, but the local traffickers got all bent out of shape. Do you have a cow? Because I have a pocket full of very young trees I'd like to trade you.

      Sorry, all full up on trees (half my state is a national forest, after all); although, if you have a few hundred feet of copper wire to spare, I'm sure we could work out some kind of barter.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    35. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      No, but if you had 100 bullets coming at you and had the opportunity to hold a shield that would catch 99 of the bullets, would you really refuse holding it because it wouldn't catch 100% of the bullets? You don't stop the bullets by saying "don't come at me until I have a shield that will stop all the bullets."

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    36. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      So you can get a filter in, say, 30 years? Lot of good that is going to do the family having to drink contaminated water tomorrow.

      Perhaps they could barter for the wood they need. I don't know, but what I do know is "your idea isn't perfect, therefore it's a bad idea" is the thought process of a complete, abject moron.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    37. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      I think you missed the point - it's less about what's in Purell, and more about the whole "killing 99% of germs is better than not killing any of them" concept.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    38. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      And if you got wood and tools to construct a filtering apparatus, you can probably boil that filtered water too.

      As TFA points out, the problem with boiling water is fuel consumption, whereas filtering through a cold tree branch requires no fuel whatsoever, other than the physical energy exerted by the tree branch user.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    39. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by CanHasDIY · · Score: 2

      Maybe so, but do you blend bleach into all of your drinking water?

      What, you don't?

      If hydrating doesn't result in debilitating stomach cramps, you're doing something wrong, bro.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    40. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Methinks you've got a few extra 9s in there, Chlorox only claims their bleach kills 99.9 percent of germs and bacteria, and that only adds ~3 generations to get back to 1% of the original population, compared to the ~7 needed to get from 1% back to 100%. And bacteria come by the millions, anything short of 100% effectiveness means you will be infected.

      Fortunately, our bodies are not without their own defenses, and 99% buys you at least an extra day or two for your immune system to stumble upon an effective response before your health is compromised, and that's often enough. Would another extra day or two advantage from 99.99% filtration be even better? Surely, but at some point side-channels start becoming the primary route for infection anyway, so you get diminishing returns. *GASP* you didn't just wipe the sweat off your brow with a wet hand did you? You know some of the infectious payload is going to find a way through your mucous membranes. To say nothing of all the membranes exposed if you actually bathe in unfiltered water.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    41. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      Your immune system is virtually bullet proof under those circumstances

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    42. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      Yeah! Now all these people in the developing world have to do is chop down even more trees. Deforestation, YAY!. Oh, wait....

      Well, at least this will help people living in slums and favelas in places like Manila, Rio, etc. because sapwood is free, cheap, and highly available there. Oh.... wait...

      OK, so are you going to suggest a better idea, or just troll (then whine in your sig when your troll-y posts are appropriately modded)?

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    43. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      So... $0.25 worth of epoxy? I don't see anything there that couldn't be done for free or, at the very worst, an incredibly low cost. You can pressurize a container with a make-shift hand pump, for example.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    44. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by gnick · · Score: 1

      Only a few hundred? Great! I'll get them delivered. Just set up a small box down-town with a charging socket on a post and a sign that says, "Free for the first 2 months - Leaf and Volt owners only!" That way my delivery people know that they're bringing you the wire for free. They'll drive the wire to your collection station and attach them to let you know they're ready to be harvested. I'll throw in some batteries too if you're willing to invest in a pry-bar.

      As far as the delivery of the cow... I'm willing to take it piece-by-piece as long as the remaining balance stays refrigerated.

      Seriously though, my state has quite a few trees, but driving out to them kind of defeats the purpose of going "green". It's more recreational. Planting them close-by is just unfeasible. A potted cactus maybe, but certainly not a proper tree.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    45. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by gnick · · Score: 1

      I've actually heard that a very small amount isn't a bad idea for long-term storage of emergency water. But it just seems too weird. Like burning out a chest cold w/ cigars or flushing through a stomach virus with Drano.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    46. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 0

      Oh, are you upset that you didn't think through your comment?

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    47. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by QRDeNameland · · Score: 1

      What a silly thing to say; as if not filtering 99% of something harmful is a better idea...

      OP does have a quite valid point...I worked in water testing lab years ago so I have some experience with this. The EPA standard for coliform in drinking water is zero, that is to say one e. coli bacteria in a water sample (usually 100 ml) means the water is contaminated. (And generally when water is contaminated, there will be far more than just one bacteria per 100 ml.)

      So while, yes, removing 99% of the bacterial load is better than not, as a general rule a 99% effective "decontamination" process still leaves you with contaminated water

      --
      Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
    48. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by nmr_andrew · · Score: 1

      OK, so for purposes of writing up a paper and reporting methods, yes, it's not all that free or natural. But in practice it is. You could cut a section from a branch to fit tightly in a tube or funnel, no epoxy needed and no real reason why it would have to be round if it's easier to make a different shape. Wood tends to swell slightly when wet, so it could make itself air tight. Then, while it's convenient to use nitrogen from a tank to provide pressure and simultaneously avoid contamination in a lab setting, you could use a cheap, off the shelf air compressor, or a hand pump/crank system, or press on a plunger, or even passively use the weight from a large enough supply reservoir of water to force water through the filter.

    49. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 0

      In other words, you don't see the flaw in your logic and don't like it when people point it out. It is like you have no experience in the real world.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    50. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 0

      By the way, your original comment is very "troll-y". You are the pot calling the kettle black.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    51. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by mysidia · · Score: 1

      I don't but my town water facility does. Fair chance yours does, too.

      They put chlorine in the water. Bleach contains substances besides chlorine that are more hazardous, even in small amounts.

    52. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      This conversation went from sardonic to hilarious in a hurry, didn't it?

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    53. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      99% of bullets would save the vast majority of people historocally who have been shot at.

      Even if you multiply it by number of bacteria, most infections require invasion by hundreds to "take", and not a single one, IIRC.

      We must not let useless western lawyerlyism get in the way here and instead let outcomes improvements guide us, rather than lawsuits.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    54. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      I've actually heard that a very small amount isn't a bad idea for long-term storage of emergency water.

      From the CDC:

      Prepare an Emergency Water Supply

              - Store at least 1 gallon of water per day for each person and each pet. You should consider storing more water than this for hot climates, for pregnant women, and for persons who are sick.
              - Store at least a 3-day supply of water for each person and each pet (try to store a 2-week supply if possible).
              - Observe the expiration date for store-bought water; replace other stored water every six months.
              - Store a bottle of unscented liquid household chlorine bleach to disinfect your water and to use for general cleaning and sanitizing.

      Water Containers (Cleaning and Storage)

      Unopened commercially bottled water is the safest and most reliable emergency water supply.

      Use of food-grade water storage containers, such as those found at surplus or camping supply stores, is recommended if you prepare stored water yourself.

      Before filling with safe water, use these steps to clean and sanitize storage containers:

          - Wash the storage container with dishwashing soap and water and rinse completely with clean water.
          - Sanitize the container by adding a solution made by mixing 1 teaspoon of unscented liquid household chlorine bleach in one quart of water.
          - Cover the container and shake it well so that the sanitizing bleach solution touches all inside surfaces of the container.
              Wait at least 30 seconds and then pour the sanitizing solution out of the container.
              Let the empty sanitized container air-dry before use OR rinse the empty container with clean, safe water that already is available.

      But it just seems too weird. Like burning out a chest cold w/ cigars or flushing through a stomach virus with Drano.

      Well, I'd say it's better than using leeches, but then again, I think I'd rather stick a blood-sucking parasite on my nipple than willfully down any amount of Clorox...

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    55. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can hardly read slashdot anymore. It's bad enough they're fucking up the design and function of the site, but the growing crowd of DAE le capitalism is the worst idiots that try to shoehorn some stab at market economics into every article is getting unbearable.

    56. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      And as opposed to The Other Man, who will use police to stop people from doing this, and selling saplings because they haven't plowed through permits and regulations, and haven't donated to The Other Man's political party, or at least bought 20,000 copies of his inane book and shoved it into a warehouse as a legal way to launder and funnel money into The Other Man's pocket.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    57. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by gnick · · Score: 1

      I prefer hilarity, but hey - I'm open minded. I can swing both ways. =)

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    58. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by maharvey · · Score: 1

      And people living in desert regions of the world don't have easy access to sapwood...

      People living in desert regions probably get their water from wells, which is relatively clean.

      People living in more temperate regions where there is excess water are more likely to drink the dirty surface runoff. It's not that water is scarce, it's that it is dirty. Where I live, trees are weeds... I have to pull tree sprouts up by the dozens every year to keep my yard from turning into a rainforest. But we don't drink out of rivers or lakes here, even if they look clean. We filter it. We don't drink the tapwater unfiltered either because the government loads it up with chlorine and ammonia. Yuck. A large chunk of the developing world population (where this is most useful) lives in tropical areas with plenty of water and plenty of trees.

      A solution can still be useful, even if its not useful to everybody.

    59. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      You really need a good seal to maintain pressure and make it tight enough to keep out microorganisms. It's hard to see how you can do this for free.

      Certainly there are scaling problems with this too.

      Another thing about this process is that like many ideas for cleaning water it lacks the ability to keep the water clean after it's processed. The residual effect of chlorine and related materials is one of the reasons chlorine is so tough to beat - after you apply it a residual of hypochlorous acid keeps the water safe while it's being distributed.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    60. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the case of Purell, its Triclosan that is an issue.

      Um. No.

      Even if you believe that Triclosan has issues (and evedence indicates it might) that doesn't mean Purell does. Because standard Purell does not contain Triclosan - and never has contained it. Purell and the like use *alcohol* to clean/disinfect your hands, not Triclosan. Alcohol kills bacteria and viruses in a completely different manner than Triclosan, one that has none of Triclosan's potentially dangerous effects.

      Yes, the link you provide has "hand sanitizer" in the URL - but that's because *it's the Huffington Post*, not really your go-to source for accurate scientific news. Note that nothing on the page mentions hand sanitizers, presumably because they realized their mistake and corrected what they could correct. (With the URL being somewhat uncorrectable.)

      By the way, nice FUD with the "Maybe they have removed it, maybe not." comment (and then a link to something that doesn't mention Purell in the slightest.) Perhaps you should have done a web search (/triclosan purell/), where the first link is the Purell FAQ, where the first question is about the topic: "U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) regulations do not allow the use of triclosan as an active ingredient in "leave on" products like hand sanitizer". But don't take their word for it. Scroll down to other pages, and see places like "Food & water watch" which encourages you to "Take the anti-triclosan pledge" and "Report products that you find containing triclosan and take the pledge to choose soaps and products wisely." "Support Companies That Do Not Use Triclosan: ... Purell Instant Hand Sanitizer"

      If you're going to sidetrack the conversation, at least get your facts right.

    61. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      By the way, your original comment is very "troll-y". You are the pot calling the kettle black.

      Yea, no it's not.

      But hey, you just keep telling yourself that so you can feel justified in being a d-bag who doesn't have anything worthwhile to contribute to the conversation.

      'Cuz that seems to be working out so well for you.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    62. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      In other words, you don't see the flaw in your logic and don't like it when people point it out. It is like you have no experience in the real world.

      "Pointing out the flaw in [someone's] logic," without offering anything other than that, is pretty pointless.

      Unless, of course, your point is to be intentionally inflammatory, or to derail the conversation.

      So, do you have a better idea? Will you tell us, or just keep on trolling with snarky ad hominem attacks? The world sits on razor's edge awaiting your response.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    63. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      Regarding OP's analogy, if someone fired 100 bullets at me, and I had a way to automatically block 99 of them, I'd have to be an idiot to not use that method just because 1 bullet might get through.

      Yes, I might still get shot, but at least I won't be riddled with holes.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    64. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by CanHasDIY · · Score: 0

      Oh, are you upset that you didn't think through your comment?

      So... just gonna troll, then. Gotcha.

      Now I know to ignore your posts. Thanks for the inadvertent heads-up.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    65. Re: Take That, Capitalists! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, the legal requirements are 100% removal of fecal coliform bacteria, 100% removal of E.coli, 99.9% minimum removal / inactivation of Giardia, 99.99% minimum removal / inactivation of viruses. A filter that removes 99% of E.coli (which is a similar size to the cholera bacterium) and can't remove viruses (e.g. meningitis, hepatitis) would not be able to produce potable water from water that's contaminated by any of those pathogens.

    66. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by Flatwater · · Score: 1

      No, I am not a fan of Lysol or Purell to decontaminate drinking water. "Acceptable" residual bacterial counts in drinking water are not the same thing as acceptable residual counts after washing your hands.

    67. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, but if you had 100 bullets coming at you and had the opportunity to hold a shield that would catch 99 of the bullets, would you really refuse holding it because it wouldn't catch 100% of the bullets? You don't stop the bullets by saying "don't come at me until I have a shield that will stop all the bullets."

      The difference here is that other purification methods with higher success rates exist.

      So the analogy is someone with an 80-bullet proof, shield trying to say how wonderful it is to a room full of people with 99-bullet proof shields.

      The 80-bullet shield is better than no shield, but it's not terribly attractive in general, only to those who lack the better extant shields.

    68. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      No, I am not a fan of Lysol or Purell to decontaminate drinking water.

      "Acceptable" residual bacterial counts in drinking water are not the same thing as acceptable residual counts after washing your hands.

      I didn't know you had a set of portable goalposts...

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    69. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by QRDeNameland · · Score: 1

      Yes, but, the OP didn't say that one shouldn't use the method...those were *your* words and *your* assumption. The analogy simply points out that '99% removal' may not be adequate in this particular case.

      --
      Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
    70. Re: Take That, Capitalists! by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      Most people need clean water on a regular basis and cannot accommodate waiting for a tree to grow to quench their thirst.

      Where did I say it was a perfect solution? At least it's something more than "dur, you have to buy trees from someone."

      Do you have anything relevant and useful to add, or did you just come here to whine that the solution I offered isn't perfect?

      You offered a solution? I thought your original comment was gloating about how you can do an end-run around the capitalists by using this already proposed solution. Then you summed up my qualified response as "'your idea isn't perfect, therefore it's a bad idea' is the thought process of a complete, abject moron" despite the fact that neither I nor anyone else said anything about you having a bad idea -- we just stated that your argument was limited. The original concept (using objects found in the natural environment to improve the local welfare) is great. That's not yours though -- it's been handed down for thousands of years, and recently a more formalized paper was published exploring the idea. Or are you one of the people who conducted the study?

    71. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by denzacar · · Score: 1

      Yeah, yeah, I know, they were testing this as a solution for people who can't afford burning all that fuel.

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    72. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by badkarmadayaccount · · Score: 1

      sodium hypochlorite one substance chemistry fail

      --
      I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
    73. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 1

      Nope. 1 bullet may kill you. 1 bacterium (or even a couple of thousands) will not. Most of us have an immune system against bacteria, those won't help much against bullets.

      --
      Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
    74. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 1

      A 3,5 m (12 feet) tube will already give you that pressure so you won't even need a real pump. Just hang the tube on a tree, attach a container to the top and fill that container up once in a while.

      --
      Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
    75. Re:Take That, Capitalists! by twocows · · Score: 1

      That's not true. In fact, it often takes a sufficiently large amount of any sort of harmful parasite to make you sick from oral ingestion, if only because your stomach acid is going to kill a large amount. So killing 99% of bacterial pathogens in a water source is actually pretty useful.

  4. Time to watch Nausicaä again by hort_wort · · Score: 3, Informative

    "It's so beautiful. It's hard to believe these spores could kill me."

  5. Pour water through the branch? by alta · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Exactly how do you pour water THROUGH a branch? This sounds like the old boyscout prank of expecting someone to push a rope. Or maybe this is more like herding cats?

    --
    Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
    1. Re:Pour water through the branch? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Chip it and put it at the bottom of a hopper. I would have thought a boyscout could have figured that out.

    2. Re:Pour water through the branch? by srmalloy · · Score: 1

      I would expect that you'd need something like a large pottery vase or jar with a tapered hole in the bottom. You cut the length of sapwood, wrap one end with a fiber cord until you can push it down into the hole and have it fit tightly with the branch sticking out the bottom (a rubber gasket would be better, but may not be readily available), then pour your 'raw' water into the vase and hang it over another container to catch the water that passes through the branch. A higher-tech solution would use some sort of pump to raise the pressure on the source side to push water through the branch faster, but that would require a greater investment of material; pottery and fiber cord should be products available in even subtechnological cultures.

    3. Re:Pour water through the branch? by alta · · Score: 1

      Is a hopper a funnel? I could see that working.
      Or a bucket? I'm assuming this is only going to be gravity fed, branch isn't going to move it uphill.

      --
      Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
    4. Re:Pour water through the branch? by sdoca · · Score: 2

      If you'd RTFA, you'd know they put branch into a tube (fit tightly) and fed the water thru it that way.

    5. Re:Pour water through the branch? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm going to go out on a limb (ha!) and speculate that you are circlejerking about "pouring" water through a branch, rather than "filtering" water through a branch (ala gravity feed with filtration material at the bottom).

      That said, I see no reference in the summary to "pouring water" through a branch. So you got your panties all bunched up over nothing.

    6. Re:Pour water through the branch? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It is referenced in the paper (5 PSI) being used, which can be applied by ~12 foot head of water. I would envision this being used by stripping the bark, and then clamping a line to it. Water then trickles through at a rate which the paper refers to as sufficient to supply a single persons daily drinking water.

      This is not a rapid method. However, low cost and available materials will win out in remote and poor locations (which is where the highest need lies).

    7. Re:Pour water through the branch? by fisted · · Score: 1

      you do realize that passing water/nutrients through is the primary function of branches, right?

    8. Re:Pour water through the branch? by neo-mkrey · · Score: 1

      Mythbusters recently proved that you can't herd cats.

    9. Re:Pour water through the branch? by tacet · · Score: 1

      you could use thousands year old technique of tourniquet to increase pressure in soft bottle ;-)

    10. Re:Pour water through the branch? by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Sub-technological cultures... that would be things like communities of apes, right? Wait, no. Even they have a degree of language and other culturally-transmitted technology such as termite-fishing with sticks.

      Low-tech yes, sub-tech no. Don't contribute to the trap of thinking technology = modern high-tech technology. Language, money, stone axes, etc. all had their heyday as high technology, and assuming we don't wipe ourselves out there will come a day when today's smartphones and airplanes look every bit as primitive as grinding grain with a mortar and pestle. Won't make them any less a technology though.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    11. Re:Pour water through the branch? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you would "peel" off a sheet the sapwood (the outer few "living rings" of the tree, or branch), position this peeled off portion horizontally over some kind of catchment and pour water on the sheet and let it filter through.

  6. Wooden chopping boards. by Jason+Pollock · · Score: 5, Informative

    Trees are great at dealing with bacteria.

    We soon found that disease bacteria such as these were not recoverable from wooden surfaces in a short time after they were applied, unless very large numbers were used. New plastic surfaces allowed the bacteria to persist, but were easily cleaned and disinfected. However, wooden boards that had been used and had many knife cuts acted almost the same as new wood, whereas plastic surfaces that were knife-scarred were impossible to clean and disinfect manually, especially when food residues such as chicken fat were present.

    http://faculty.vetmed.ucdavis....

    1. Re:Wooden chopping boards. by swb · · Score: 1

      That's why I let my dog lick my plastic cutting boards clean and then run them through the dishwasher with the "heat dry" and "sanitize" settings.

      The dog licking is amazing. If I cut red meat on it and wash it in the dishwasher with the above settings, the board is still faintly stained. But when the dog is done, even before washing, there is NO staining.

      So far, nobody here has gotten sick...

    2. Re:Wooden chopping boards. by Pope · · Score: 1

      Try giving it a rinse with white vinegar first instead of letting the dog lick it.

      --
      It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
    3. Re:Wooden chopping boards. by RobHostetter · · Score: 1

      Why? I bet his dog loves it! Dog saliva has very little bacteria in it, we do similar things at our home. Dogs have lived with humans a LONG time and "dog food" is a very recent invention. They are our leftovers for most of their history with man.

    4. Re:Wooden chopping boards. by asylumx · · Score: 1

      They ate our leftovers for most of their history with man.

      FTFY, or at least I hope so.

  7. Maybe not the first... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marah_(Bible)

  8. Somebody Probably Thought of That by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Somebody probably thought of that" is more likely to be untrue than true. You probably are the first person to think of that. And even if you aren't you might be the first person to act on the idea. And even if you aren't you might be the first person to succeed where others have failed. And even if you aren't, you might learn something. So don't ever say that, "somebody probably thought of that."

    Filtering water through wafers of wood is not obvious to me. I do engineering for a living. If you are wondering why no one ever discovered something before, go back to paragraph one and repeat.

    1. Re:Somebody Probably Thought of That by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It *is* obvious - after a fashion - since plants are generally doing just that; i.e., they use their root systems and cappilaries to absorb water including some impurities up to a certain size. The issue of "can we cut away a part of a plant tissue and filter water through it?" is probably more of a quantitative nature, rather than qualitative. As in, what is the filtering capacity? Does it clog? If it does, how often does it need to be changed? Does it rot? If so, how often does it need to be changed? The qualitative issues here seem to be "given that we're killing the plant, how does it affect the filtration process?" and "what preparation techniques can we employ to increase the practicality?". It's not that we don't have any filtration media, it's about how our knowledge and manufacturing processes make the individual filtration media more or less practical.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    2. Re:Somebody Probably Thought of That by gtall · · Score: 1

      The Cat Flap. Douglas Adams (in I think Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency) makes the comment of consider the cat flap, that door within a door. When the first person invented it, everyone else who thought about it said, yeah, well, I could have thought of that...except they didn't.

    3. Re:Somebody Probably Thought of That by Jmc23 · · Score: 1

      Your not a very good engineer if you don't pay attention to the way nature works. All low tech water purification techniques follow simple laws of physics using natural materials that have been 'designed' by nature to do that very task. All human inventions require tons of skill, tons of specialized equipment, and tons of money to implement, and are unsustainable.

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    4. Re:Somebody Probably Thought of That by tragedy · · Score: 1

      Filtering water through wafers of wood is not obvious to me.

      I can understand how filtering water through this particular wood wouldn't be obvious to you, but how would filtering water through wood as a method of purification not be obvious to you? Filtering water through charcoal is pretty obvious considering that it's been used for distillation for centuries, maybe millenia. Charcoal is made from wood. Filtration through all kinds of natural materials, including plant-derived cellulose materials has been done since antiquity. This is, considering the prior art, a blindingly obvious idea. The novel part is that they've done a lot of legwork and found a good, efficient, available candidate material.

  9. The article refers to an article with pictures by ansak · · Score: 3, Informative

    The article quoted above points to a paper that has some diagrams that shows how water would go through a branch -- no hoax here.

    In brief, find a stalk of sappy wood -- my Dad showed us every spring how to make a whistle out of alder branches that look what the picture shows -- peel it, whittle it to size and then plug it into the end of a tube and gravity feed water through it.

    simple...ank

    --
    Still hoping for Gentle Treatment...
  10. Patent infringement claims in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    from US water filtration corporations

  11. It's " 99.9% of bacteria" not 99% by PeterM+from+Berkeley · · Score: 1

    Bacteria filtration is awesome for the wood filters.
    Also, one has to be very careful not to let the wood dry out, because drying out damages the ability of the wood to pull water through, and if dried wood DOES let water through, it isn't filtered.

    --PM

  12. Is this really by dale.furno · · Score: 0

    Is this really as simple as a stick with a funnel on top? How quickly does this process happen? How big of a stick do i need and how fast do they grow?

  13. Lack of information by Immerman · · Score: 4, Informative

    You can make a pretty decent biofilter simply by folding a piece of cotton cloth such as an old Indian sari a few times - it'll remove 99% of cholera and many other particularly nasty infectious agents. Yet people are still getting infected because they don't know about the simple solution - it's not a technology problem, it's a public information problem. And spreading public service announcements among a population where where most people don't even own a radio is a serious challenge. Doable, but expensive and there's no profit in it, so it usually falls to small humanitarian organizations that do their best to make the information go viral, and usually fail. Getting a meme to go viral is a lot more difficult when it can only spread through face-to-face interactions.

    --
    --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  14. Survivorman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Showed this in his Costa Rica jungle episode.

  15. 99% is great! by vladilinsky · · Score: 1

    I worked with an organization who did biosand filters in the Dominican republic and Haiti, they actually wanted there filters to leave a small amount of the bacteria because then it aloud the people who were using the filters to build up an resistance in case they ever drank water that was not filtered.

  16. Tapping water from a tree a well known technique by perpenso · · Score: 1

    Tapping water from a tree is a well known survival technique. Getting water from vines even more so.

    I believe archaeologists have found ancient village sites with a pit filled with layers of sand, charcoal, wood and plant fibers (crushed material, pounded on rocks ?), etc. It was the village water purification system. Not exactly wafers but interestingly close.

    So with respect to things that humanity has been doing for millions of years, getting clean water in this case, I tend to be a little more open to the idea that a technique is being rediscovered rather than discovered.

  17. Cool but my money is on UV + TiO2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I believe water purification via ultraviolet light (sunlight) using a titanium dioxide (cheap and safe) coating is the way to go simply because there is no consumable. In a nutshell when bombarded with UV light TiO2 kicks off 0H radicals that deactivate the in DNA of any nearby (~1cm) microorganism.

  18. Herding cats is easy ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mythbusters recently proved that you can't herd cats.

    Not really, there were limited to politically correct methods. Replace the umbrellas with flaming torches, the cats will move.

    1. Re:Herding cats is easy ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As my Grandfather used to say, "with the appropriate combination of sticks, carrots, and patience, you can get a mule to waltz.

  19. Another low-tech purification tool by EdmundSS · · Score: 1
    1. Re:Another low-tech purification tool by dale.furno · · Score: 0

      requires heating water. tree branch method requires much less energy.

  20. Can't wait to try this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...the next time I'm lost in the wilderness, now if I just had a pocket size air compressor to complete the process

  21. Is this really news? by YoungManKlaus · · Score: 1

    After all its pretty well-known that from some trees you can get pretty good drinking water (as in: clean) so one would just naturally assume that somewhere between the roots and the trunk where you normally tap in, the thing would get filtered ... and alas there is not much in between except wood.

  22. Re:Tapping water from a tree a well known techniqu by shaitand · · Score: 1

    Charcoal is well known for it's use in purification. I'm curious if this works better than using charcoal and if the decay of the living tissue actually ends up making this less safe than just rendering that wood to charcoal.

  23. Re: Tapping water from a tree a well known techniq by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Activated charcoal filters work via an entirely different mechanism than a porous membrane filter. Activated carbon works because the particles or granules have a honeycombed structure with a large surface area, and the surface of the carbon is chemically adhesive to certain types of molecules (particularly organic molecules).

  24. Re:Tapping water from a tree a well known techniqu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    'Rediscovered' by some schmuck in a lab so they can write a paper about the efficiency of it.

  25. Infection rate by GPS+Pilot · · Score: 1

    What I've always wondered is, how does the infection rate relate to the number of bacteria? Is "it only takes one" a true statement? I.e., if just one bacterium slips through the filter, are you as likely to get an infection as if a million slipped through? Or is there some "critical number" of bacteria, below which a normal immune system can easily handle things, but above which infection tends to set in?

    --
    That that is is that that that that is not is not.
    1. Re:Infection rate by QRDeNameland · · Score: 1

      It depends on a lot of factors. First of all, for e. coli, most strains are harmless and so 1 or 10,000 of those cells won't really affect you. However, the greater the number you ingest, the greater the chances that you'll get one of the pathogenic strains. For someone with a normal immune system, I'd expect the chance of just one cell causing an infection is exceedingly small, but for someone with compromised immunity it would obviously be much higher.

      But as I mentioned upthread, when water is contaminated, it is rarely just one cell.

      --
      Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
  26. Water Treatment Standards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From a water treatment standard 99% is only 2-log (factor of 100) removal. Most drinking water standards that we are familiar with range in the 4 to 6-log removal range. This level of removal is necessary when there are approximately 10^4 to 10^6 bacteria per mL of untreated water. This is a promising start, but still far from the final goal.

  27. Am I missing something here? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Its going to take more than osmosis (energy of some sort) to get water thru the branch in a reasonable amount of time

  28. huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have an idea, how about we use those branches to start a fire to boil the water???

  29. Alternative... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dumb question -- wouldn't it be easier just to burn the wood and boil the water...

  30. I will by messymerry · · Score: 1

    I will try this out. If I post a report, you will know I survived...

    --
    Dear Microlimp: I give you 2 valid product keys for win7 and you reject both of them. Piss off you wankers!!!
  31. Re:Tapping water from a tree a well known techniqu by shaitand · · Score: 2

    Welcome pedant, thank you for joining the party. Note how you had to pretend you didn't know the intention of the writer, that's the part where you can tell you've added no value to conversation.

  32. Re: Tapping water from a tree a well known techniq by shaitand · · Score: 1

    But it works all the same. Which begs the question, are places that already have trees really in need of clean water and if so is the problem that there isn't already existing tech (such as charcoal+sand) vs the population knowing about existing tech.

    This won't do any good where there is little rainfall and therefore no trees and it doesn't seem to be needed where there are trees and the ability to make charcoal if the population knew how to do that.

    I am happy to add "use a living branch" to my bag of water purification tricks but I have to admit I see it as having limited utility since if I have living branches I can just make charcoal.