Slashdot Mirror
CERN Wants a New Particle Collider Three Times Larger Than the LHC
Daniel_Stuckey writes "Not content with the 27-kilometer-round Large Hadron Collider, researchers at CERN have their sights set on a new beast of a particle collider that could have a circumference of 80 to 100 kilometers. The nuclear research organization announced that it was hatching plans for an ambitious successor to the LHC with an international study called the Future Circular Colliders program, which will kick off with a meeting next week. The idea is to consider different hadron collider designs similar to the existing LHC but more powerful — much more powerful. CERN wrote it was looking for a collider 'capable of reaching unprecedented energies in the region of 100 TeV.' The existing LHC will reach a maximum of around 14 TeV."
But before they use that collider they'll want to get it out of Beta first.
Breakfast served all day!
source: http://pastebin.com/eyQ9mSnn
It is now official. Netcraft has confirmed: slashdot beta is dying
One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered slashdot beta community when IDC confirmed that slashdot beta market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that slashdot beta has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. slashdot beta is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last [samag.com] in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.
You don't need to be the Amazing Kreskin [amazingkreskin.com] to predict slashdot beta's future. The hand writing is on the wall: slashdot beta faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for slashdot beta because slashdot beta is dying. Things are looking very bad for slashdot beta. As many of us are already aware, slashdot beta continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.
Dice.com is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time Dice.com developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: Dice.com is dying.
Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.
Slashdot beta leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of slashdot beta. How many users of Dice.com are there? Let's see. The number of Dice.com versus slashdot beta posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 Dice.com users. Slashdot beta on Usenet are about half of the volume of Dice.com posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of Dice.com. A recent article put Dice.com at about 80 percent of the slashdot beta market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 Dice.com users. This is consistent with the number of Dice.com Usenet posts.
Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, Dice.com went out of business and was taken over by Reddit who sell another troubled OS. Now Dice.com is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.
All major surveys show that slashdot beta has steadily declined in market share. slashdot beta is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If slashdot beta is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. slashdot beta continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, slashdot beta is dead.
so all of the old LHC users can complain about the new LHC
OK, let's build bigger one!
What's ironic for me is that the articles over the last couple of days have been a lot more interesting to me than in recent weeks, while I fully support the FUCK BETA protest, it's a real shame that we're missing out on some interesting discussion.
In a cybernetic fit of rage she pissed off to another age...
(Hans Moleman is inside a phone booth at the bird sanctuary with birds attacking him.)
Hans Moleman: (into the phone) Hello, I need the largest seed bell you have. (pause) No, that's too big.
My point is that some things can be too big: but not a supercollider.
Humorbot 5.0: So I said, "Super-collider? I just met her!" [audience laughs] And then they built the super collider.
Also insert here some observation about theoretical maximum energies, public misunderstandings and political obstacles.
I read this a while ago and was under the assumption that this was the plan all along http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider#Proposed_upgrade?
What a novel idea! I have the odd feeling that principle could be applied to the Beta disaster somehow, but I do not quite have a full grasp on it.
I will research the idea and let you know, but I have a feeling this can be revolutionary !
So where will everybody be next week?
Hacker news ...?
Lobste.rs
Reddit
Also, has someone volunteered to put up a slashcott update site (maybe with statistics on how well/poorly the site is doing during the blockade?)
Just curious.
"Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it." -- Donald Knuth
US5722418
+
US5644363
+
GoogleGlass
+
Acceptance
=
????
If history is any sort of an indicator, any rights we sell today, our children must buy back with blood tomorrow
You mean Texas.
That place never works for supercolliders of any kind.
blackhole created. Then maybe new gamma star birth?
And a new pair of roller skates, and a new girl friend, and a new life.
Very good.
Will soon be hosted at AltSlashdot.org or a site linked through that domain.
It will be for the Nerds, by the Nerds, focusing on the Stuff That Really Matters: The community that makes the comments the best part of Slashdot.
The name will change to avoid any trademark problems. The new domain will be linked through AltSlashdot.org for as long as practical.
Some have suggested encouraging Bruce Perens to resurrect Technocrat.net for the third time. With all due respect to Bruce, the problem with that is he has shown he is not a reliable host. He has twice deleted that site without warning and without providing access to the archives. I don't think we want to get burned a third time.
Just commenting as an outsider: I've been following all the beta comments on Slashdot the last couple of days and I can tell these are already decreasing in numbers. That's what usually happens. People are upset, voice their concerns for a couple of days and then lose interest. When Google started pushing Google+ on YouTube, everyone was very upset, top videos were being flooded by comments about how much the new comment system and Google+ suck. A week later? Almost nobody cared to comment any more. The same thing will happen with Slashdot's beta. It's already happening. Why? Because in the end, people just don't care enough. Same thing with the next US presidential election. People will keep voting for the Democratic Party or Republican Party. Yes, all the privacy invasions and Guantanamo Bay and whatnot, it's all very sad. But in the end, people don't care enough. What people do care about is their own money and power. Their beers, video games, bread and circuses, and so on. Story after story, less beta comments on Slashdot. I'm not making this up, look through the comment sections of the last 40 or so stories yourself.
This is old news, and was reported on this very site last year: http://science.slashdot.org/story/13/11/13/1451221/physicists-plan-to-build-a-bigger-lhc
Yeah, all those lousy research scientists are just in it for the big money and don't produce anything useful.
What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
"Not content with the profitability of Slashdot, researchers at DICE have their sights set on a new beast of a website that could have a negative content impact of 80 to 100 percent. The “leading provider of specialized websites” announced that it was hatching plans for an horrendous successor to Slashdot.org with an experimental rollout, which was quickly shit upon by the Slashdot community, resulting in an “apology” this week. The idea is to consider different Slashdot designs that will result of greater monetization of contributed assets— much more money. DICE wrote it was looking for a major redesign in order to create a website more accessible and shareable by a wider audience. "The existing site is fine. Fuck beta."
As opposed to unpaid tenure? WTF?
People hate change... I don't get it.
I'm trying beta right now. I can read the articles. Read the comments. Post a comment, obviously... what's the big deal other than hating change?
Well... maybe I'll see the issue when I click "preview"...
Didn't we almost had it? See Superconducting Super Collider This was proposed in 1983 and cancelled in 1992 after spending 2 billion USD.
the nested blocks? I can see that getting annoying at enough levels down...
They're calling it FCC. (Future Circular Colliders). What a stupid choice. I mean its bound to cause some confusion that could have very easily been avoided.
I realise the FCC (Federal Communications Commission) isn't a global organization but you'd think CERN would have the brains and foresight to avoid reuse of already long established and very well-known acronyms.
just keep getting smaller and smaller?
Reminds me of reading a site on the phone where the blocks would eventually get so small that only a single word is shown on each line. okay...that's annoying.
Yeah, I had thought about becoming a charged particle detector technician because it's a lifestyle of high rollers, fast cars, and fast women. Didn't you know that quantum mechanics eat steak?
I think they could put this new super large particle collider in the whitespace left by Beta.
Made to order for a 40 TeV collider! Halfway to 100 TeV, triple the energy of LHC! Save billions in construction!
http://www.amusingplanet.com/2...
Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. (Isaac Asimov)
I can only picture that someone who looks like Dr. Evil (from the Austin Powers series) commissioning the construction of this "bigger, better" supercollider :|
See. They sized it at 27 kilometers. If the had made it 27 miles instead it would be much more powerfuler.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
It's like an unpaid internship, but forever!
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
.... suck more than slashdot beta?
Do they want to try and use the new particle collider to blow up /. BETA?
Just imagine what going on in those tunnel !!
I got 15 points just a couple of days ago, and I've almost finished using them.
It's a good thing that I didn't need to log on to Beta, because Beta won't even let me log on. I click the "Sign on" button and that whole black left side of the window closes up again.
What do you call that thingie that's square shaped and consists of four horizontal lines, anyway?
Oh, this Beta, it is not so good.
BETA is clearly about monetization. The kids today - the next generation of consumers - expect a trendy style that slashdot doesn't exhibit. Dice is clearly interested in attracting a larger "audience" and they can't afford to have these new consumers visit the site, decide that it's not hip enough or it looks "old", and move on never to return. That has to be the thinking behind BETA.
And the reason they want to increase their "audience share" is simple: The more people visit the site the more they can charge for advertising space. It really is that simple. They want to turn slashdot into a profit generator and the community be damned. They will happily throw all of us under the bus if it means they can acquire hordes of retards whose idea of insightful commentary consists of nothing more than "+1", or "Like" or (as we used to loathe in the days of AOHeLl: "Me too!"
Like broadcast television and several other advertising models, they want to turn US into the PRODUCT that they sell to ADVERTISERS.
Greedy sleazebags. I eagerly await Boycott Week from Feb 10th through the 17th. My only use of slashdot that week will be using the name on other sites to see how much the traffic drops off. More widespread dissemination of the BOYCOTT week needs to happen this weekend before it's scheduled to start on Monday. The only way to get through to marketeers and corporatist assholes is to hit 'em where it hurts: in their wallet. A boycott has the potential to show them just how low their "brand" can sink when they piss off their loyal userbase.
They Should consider building a dual purpose atom accelerator (Lepton Accelerator). One purpose would be research of the particles by colliding them. The secondary purpose would be defense of the earth from meteorites. Once you accelerate a ton of atoms to the speed of light you, then, can direct the accelerated beam towards meteorite and destroy it. This new accelerator can be valuable defense installation. Also easier to justify the funds needed and take them from military budgets. I can see that in 50 years we will be building particle accelerator with the radius of the earth, 6378 kilometers or circumference of 40,000 kilometeres. Based on my approximate calculations, if current technologies are used we could achieve 21 PeV or 20734 TeV in such accelerator.
The Moonriders will save us.
Damn shame we didn't build one in Texas when we had the chance.
- Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
It has to be at least .... 3 times as large!
Make it 10-20x as big as planned right now to save money and time.
Here's the compelling reason... to ruin it. Other sites have done it, so why not slashdot?
Yahoo! news: ruined
Yahoo! mail: ruined
Google groups: ruined
iOS: ruined with iOS7
windows: ruined with 8/8.1
ms office: ruined by ribbons
Even *I* want a collider 3x as powerful as the most powerful particle accelerator the world has yet seen, and I'm not even a physicist.
I like to imagine the kilometers of stainless steel gleaming in the harsh mercury vapor illumination; the drifting swirls of escaped cryogenic vapors; the sound of my evil laughter echoing in the vast subterranean chamber. If those things don't inspire you, there must be something inhuman about you.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Why boycott, when you can just use a HOSTS file?
It seems that the Texas location is fair game again.
There are not too many places where a 100Km circle can be scribed
and not slice through hills, mountains, and towns.
My personal preference for spending billions and billions
on research would best be an expansion and repurposing
of the US federal compute center (NSA, FBI, DHS) in Utah
to be a national and global climate center research center.
There is a real need to understand the climate changes man made
or not and understand what needs to happen.
We could plant merlot grapes in Norway or in the Sahara so they
would be ready when the climate changes to favor them. If that
was not enough reason we could look at fields of corn sugar production
moving to Brazil.
Food, fuel, water -- changes natural or not need to be understood.
Perhaps if we were to grind Gibraltar into chunks that could be trucked
a short distance so we could close off the entrance to the Mediterranean
by reducing that thermal mass the Sahara could be made to bloom (or not).
The reality is that food production is a lot harder than a couple zucchini plants
that are so easy to coax into abundance.
Then there is insulation, flood planes, mosquito born maladies.
Recall that there are still vast areas of Africa that are want to kill
you with insect born diseases.
Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. Mark Twain.
Isnt there something like an 80km one half built already in the US? why not buy it and install all the components and save some scratch? plus you can prance around the states talking about kilometers and euro-dance and get yelled at by rednecks. which would be fun.
On the topic, though, I thought next generation accelerators would be linear to avoid radiational losses.
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
was this not considered before the LHC?
"Dad, I wanna 100-foot-tall pony!"
Table-ized A.I.
Excellent, we can use this to shift universal timestreams with untold efficiency. The increased range will facilitate a lower divergence threshold, letting us properly jump from this shitty BETA timeline to a utopian alpha.
Oh wait, you're talking about the /. beta? Whatever, same outcome!
- John Titor
They really should talk to NASA. At some point we should find a nice 200km asteroid and build one around it safely off-planet. The vacuum's already there and it could be solar powered.
I doubt the Physics community will trust the US Government to be a critical partner any project that big until the institutional memory of the SSC budget axe goes away. We are just over 20 years into what I expect to be a 40-60 year wait for that to happen.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
...I want one 5x bigger than the LHC. I win!
Does anybody "not scientist" ever had a chance to vote AGAINST ? NOT TO PLAY staking his and his family lives? ..." if anything went wrong way before...
Seems scientists cannot live without making "human mistakes"... If 14 TeV doesn't made up any fireworks - they want to move for 100 TeV...
Of course that's no problem for them to say "ups
So they hope it will stay so forever keeping to play with more and more dangerous toys.. Can they insure anybody around them that nothing would go wrong ?
That is mad game where all others are forced to participate and which all others are forced to fund. If dices in the hands of those aged infants will turn on wrong numbers - everybody will lose their lives in the name of "science"... - Does anybody "not scientist" ever had a chance to vote AGAINST ? NOT TO PLAY staking his and his family lives?
They should build it around the moon's equator!
The moon has a circumference of ~11,000 km, think of the power they could get.
The moon is in near vacuum. It would not need large vacuum pumps to maintain proper operating pressure, just a sealed pipe to keep outside particles from contaminating experimental results.
In shadow the moon is near absolute zero, and thus would not need large scale cryogenics to maintain magnetic potency.
Abundant power, either from solar on the day side, or by large helium3 reserves if fusion technology becomes available.
The nearest neighbors are ~385,000 km away, just in case something "weird or strange" happens.
I'm sure there are other advantages as well.
A particle collider for ants?
What is their goal? LHC was to find the Higgs boson. Now they have it (though I am not sure it has any consequence), what is the next goal?
TTSIA
Spend the money on condensed matter physics that someday may be useful to humanity. Spending money on particle physics is worst than burning it and should be criminalized.
Today I Learned: TTSIA!!
Slashdot Valentines Beta Massacre: iT WORKED! The boycotts killed Beta!!
These geniuses can build CERN, but they can't install it on the moon? I understand, it's the math; right? And CERN types don't really work with the math? CERN types are more big picture folks, right?
I agree that BETA is definitely a money grab, however I don't think that the young people (such as myself) in the target audience of Slashdot, or rather, former target audience typically care if it looks new or trendy. It is a news site for nerds who probably care more about functionality than looks. I also think that people who would look at the old Slashdot interface and move on because it does not look new enough probably would be better off somewhere else anyways. One of the things that makes Slashdot so great is the discussions in the comments, and so having an older looking interface might help filter out the people who are quick to judge, don't take the time to read things and would not be good participants in the discussions.
Each generation of these circular accelerators just gets bigger and bigger (yes, for technical reasons like electron energy dissipation as it moves fast in a circle). Physicists should stop doing this incremental size-increase crap and just go for the maximum. The incremental approach would appear to cost more money in the long run.
Wouldn't the optimal path to increase the speed of matter as rapidly as possible be a straight line? Perhaps it's impractical, but they could conceivably build an accelerator that wrapped the surface of Earth. Go for the gold or go home. :)
Buy your next Linux PC at eightvirtues.com
It's always been like this. Every change in the layout has been met with lots of shouting and "We hate you" etc. Eventually it dies down and nobody cares anymore.
There are two things about the beta I don't like: the stupid pictures that come with every article, and the enormous amount of white space to the right of the comments. For the rest it's fine with me, just as the old layout is fine with me.
-- Cheers!
so we canceled the one in the us that was suppsed to be this size because of cern and now they want this?
will you fucking twats take your complaints about the beta to the correct forum instead of infecting all the articles with your trivial childish comments
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
I don't want to share a orbit with 100 Tev experiments, leave alone a biosphere. It would nice if they build halfway between Venus and Mercury. Lots of solar power and that's safe distance, should you get a quantum black hole stable enough to start growing - then it shallow the beast and orbit until it burst into gamma rays. Maybe enough gamma rays to cause some extra cancer on people facing the burst. On Earth, it would shallow the world, game over.
Send them to CERN and launch them like particles, that should remove defects.
Makes me wonder why CERN doesnt anticipate their future desires and build one TEN times bigger so they can save money and real estate. When they get one thats 3 times bigger theyll only want another bigger one, then a bigger one. CUT TO THE CHASE, build it 10 times bigger so you dont have a country full of super colliders and no where to farm, swim, drive, live, etc.
Think ahead, Jeez! Probably get a better break on raw materials buying in bigger bulk anyway. Youd think theyd put someone SMART in charge of this to begin with. What, a bunch of physicists, engineers and kitchen help and no-one can CAD up the dream machine? COME ON!
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
NO.
COWARDLY TWAT
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
. . . it is all Web page redesign and Marketing.
It would be nice if we could net back some of our investment in developing this technology. Just saying. Put it somwhere hip and cool, that will attract many smart folks and retain them....
The excuse that "they are not going to destroy the Universe" is based on cosmic rays having energies way beyond what a ring circling the planet could achieve, although I guess the luminosity is low and that is why we are not swallowed up by a black hole?
But Dyson's point is that these mega projects are throwing bucks/Euros after diminishing returns as the interesting stuff is probably still outside your reach. He thought that people should be considering novel concepts rather than just making what we have bigger . . . and more expensive.
CERN should be developing and making Portal devices real. Much more important to the real world...
Radial Accelerators are better
https://github.com/singularian/radialaccelerator
A meter accelerator could have the power of the entire LHC.
A radial accelerator is better.
https://github.com/singularian/radialaccelerator
THANK YOU. It seems that if beta doesn't drive people away, the incessant whining about it the comments of every article will.
They'd better get the name of it right: I presume, previous to the LHC, there have been a Small and a Medium so Xtra Large might be good - plus there's plenty of room for further, bigger colliders.
But if they leap straight in with "Mega" or "Super Ginormous" - well, they're gonna run out of names for future colliders pretty damn quick.
"Quite Big" is nicely understated; but in this age of superlative madness, where everything is "Giga", and "Ultra" - even though it's the first iteration of a product - and people who manage to walk across a room without blinding themselves with a spoon are labelled "Heroes"...
Well, they'll probably call it the "Omega Class, Hyper-lightspeed, Super-massive, Multi-yottabyte Particle Annihilator"
And then, when they want a bigger one, they'll be fucked - like Beta should be.
while (true != false) process_more_stupid_code();
FUCK BETA.
You sound like my grandpa. The train to the future just left and you're still at the station. Get used to the fact that change is constant, embrace it, or be left behind. Resistance is futile!
MOD parent up! I don't have mod points today - which is slightly unusual.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"