Doesn't seem to have an actual working version at the moment.
Pascal
Modula-2
Oberon-2
These seem to be based on translating the source into Java. It works, I suppose, but not really a true compiler.
Lisp
Scheme
Fair enough on these
Python
That's an interpreter running in Java rather than a bytecode compiler like the.net equivalent.
Perl
Describes itself as a defunct project
TCL
Logo
Prolog
All interpreters, though the same is probably true of any.net implementations with these particular languages. But a language running through an interpreter is always going to be a worse choice for many situations, especially because it's basically being interpreted twice - the interpreter itself is being JITed to native code.
All in all, more than I'd thought, but it still seems a poorer selection than for.net
Try running Visual Studio Beta 2005 which is (as I remember) writen in.NET... feel lucky not to fall asleep while waiting for start.
I don't have it, nor do I have a Java IDE to compare it with. However, I know simple.net programs, e.g. muine run fine, with plenty of other programs running, wheras even the most basic of Java programs doesn't. Azureus, Yaggui, even Jedit (a fricking text editor ffs) are just too slow to be usable, even as the only program running.
Ever heard of Jython?
Yes, it's an interpreter, wheras IronPython compiles to actual.net IL bytecodes.
It is not fault of Java that You can't justify upgrade of 5 year old hardware.
No, but it is the fault of Java that it runs slower than everything else. If everything was struggling on this hardware I'd blame the hardware, but since only Java does I'm inclined to blame Java.
This is rather a matter of taste. One prefers C#, one Java, others don't see any significant difference:)
My point was that there seems (to me) to be more choice with.net, with java if you dislike both java and ruby you're stuffed, wheras if you dislike C#, VB and JScript you still have alternatives under.net.
No system is uncrashable IME, no matter how well written there will always be some flaw that freezes it occasionally, or hardware will cause a crash. When you get a full system freeze, how does a capability system handle it? I ask because AIUI capability systems have a lot of difficulty doing a "cold start", and so most capability-based OSes save the state of the system on shutdown and restore it on startup, making it more like a suspend.
MSIL is just in time compiled to machine code in the CLR
Yes, but you can compile it to native code using ngen.exe or mono --aot, and then distribute that if you want. (obviously you lose platform-independence by doing this, but there is a performance gain)
Don't forget GCJ which creates machine code directly
I wasn't, that's why I said the majority of Java applications. GCJ is a good project but sadly not at a stage where it can compile a "random" java application.
What about it?
I was thinking of your list "Perl, Ruby, Lisp, Smalltalk, Eiffel, Scheme and Python"
Java is more than a bit clumsy. Java programs are intolerably slow on my 800mhz machine, and I can't justify an upgrade just for Java when everything else works fine on it.
Also, you neglect the greatest advantage of.net: You can write in lots of nice languages for it, wheras Java afaik only has Java and Ruby.
It runs fine on freebsd, which is probably as secure as any of the java platforms (Isn't getting the jvm working on any BSD a horrible experience?), so I'd say that puts.net ahead.
I think the reason it happens with.net but not with Java is that windows treats.net programs as normal executables, wheras java programs are basically seen as documents opened with the javac program. So it's not a problem with.net, it's a problem with windows. Let's face it, we've said that about lots of problems with OSS software on windows.
It's far more cross-platform than Java - so far only one platform can run the majority of Java applications, the JVM, wheras mono compiles.net to native on several platforms.
Well, I'm sure the blind are happy that those "big evil corporations" are at least doing something to make their screenreaders work.
Stripping the tags from a web page is easy as pie and doing so while keeping the formatting only slightly less so, so I can't see why screenreaders would have problems with normal html.
And as a normal joe who doesn't work in the IT industry, I've been able to create and maintain an XHTML 1.0 Strict and CSS2-compliant site for over two years now. It's not that hard.
I program fine and I've just found it impossible. But it could just be me.
The thing is that the DMCA makes even a link to infringing material illegal. No, google doesn't have to check every site they index, but if someone tells them a site they index is violating copyright then they have to take it out of the index and pronto. Personally I think it's absurd that a link to a site can be illegal, but it's been held up in court repeatedly.
No, but once they are made aware of it, the DMCA says they have to get rid of the links. This applies to anyone, not just google - if you have a link to a warez site on your site, even if you have no warez yourself, you can and will be forced to take it down or get sued. Google has removed search results for stuff like this in the past - kazaa lite comes to mind.
The DMCA says that they have to take down the links once they're told about them, that's the thing. Remember google being forced to remove kazaa lite and friends from its search results because it was infringing Sharman's copyrights? This is exactly the same thing.
This kind of thing can only work if it's on the machines that will be running the viruses. If you want to scan everything coming in, or at your mail gateway, signature is still the way to go. There's a place for both methods, as has been the case for a long time.
Why not? I can't imagine him having to have foam-clad O-rings to satisfy some voters by being able to build a particular component near them, so tiles would probably work.
Not dying, dead. I suppose I should have done the whole thing about internet share being down, red ink flowing like blood and so forth, but I couldn't be bothered.
It has meant that professionals and big companies are better at producing good websites. Gone is the time when a typical kid in a bedroom would have written the best website on a particular subject, probably hand-coded and hosted on geocities. Now you find a big corporate site to tell you what you need to know, just like any other medium. The web used to be different.
I wonder how many of these attacks are really coming from America. Standard practice is to spoof somewhere that seems to be not worth their time to look into if anyone catches you - eastern europe used to be a favourite, with its famously corrupt and incompetent police forces and the sheer physical distance acting to dissuade US companies or government agencies from bothering to try and bring anyone apparently from there to justice. With the additional hostile political environment and famed elite hackers, China would make a very attractive place to spoof an attack as being from.
True salting adds more than that because the attacker has to capture the salt (which with shadow passwords means you need root access) before they can even start building the database.
Slashdot Mirror
Doesn't seem to have an actual working version at the moment.
Pascal
Modula-2
Oberon-2
These seem to be based on translating the source into Java. It works, I suppose, but not really a true compiler.
Lisp
Scheme
Fair enough on these
Python
That's an interpreter running in Java rather than a bytecode compiler like the .net equivalent.
Perl
Describes itself as a defunct project
TCL
Logo
Prolog
All interpreters, though the same is probably true of any .net implementations with these particular languages. But a language running through an interpreter is always going to be a worse choice for many situations, especially because it's basically being interpreted twice - the interpreter itself is being JITed to native code.
All in all, more than I'd thought, but it still seems a poorer selection than for .net
I don't have it, nor do I have a Java IDE to compare it with. However, I know simple .net programs, e.g. muine run fine, with plenty of other programs running, wheras even the most basic of Java programs doesn't. Azureus, Yaggui, even Jedit (a fricking text editor ffs) are just too slow to be usable, even as the only program running.
Ever heard of Jython?
Yes, it's an interpreter, wheras IronPython compiles to actual .net IL bytecodes.
No, but it is the fault of Java that it runs slower than everything else. If everything was struggling on this hardware I'd blame the hardware, but since only Java does I'm inclined to blame Java.
This is rather a matter of taste. One prefers C#, one Java, others don't see any significant difference :)
My point was that there seems (to me) to be more choice with .net, with java if you dislike both java and ruby you're stuffed, wheras if you dislike C#, VB and JScript you still have alternatives under .net.
No system is uncrashable IME, no matter how well written there will always be some flaw that freezes it occasionally, or hardware will cause a crash. When you get a full system freeze, how does a capability system handle it? I ask because AIUI capability systems have a lot of difficulty doing a "cold start", and so most capability-based OSes save the state of the system on shutdown and restore it on startup, making it more like a suspend.
Yes, but you can compile it to native code using ngen.exe or mono --aot, and then distribute that if you want. (obviously you lose platform-independence by doing this, but there is a performance gain)
Don't forget GCJ which creates machine code directly
I wasn't, that's why I said the majority of Java applications. GCJ is a good project but sadly not at a stage where it can compile a "random" java application.
What about it?
I was thinking of your list "Perl, Ruby, Lisp, Smalltalk, Eiffel, Scheme and Python"
Also, you neglect the greatest advantage of .net: You can write in lots of nice languages for it, wheras Java afaik only has Java and Ruby.
Something I've always wondered: how does a capability-based system handle crashes?
It runs fine on freebsd, which is probably as secure as any of the java platforms (Isn't getting the jvm working on any BSD a horrible experience?), so I'd say that puts .net ahead.
I think the reason it happens with .net but not with Java is that windows treats .net programs as normal executables, wheras java programs are basically seen as documents opened with the javac program. So it's not a problem with .net, it's a problem with windows. Let's face it, we've said that about lots of problems with OSS software on windows.
And don't forget TCL
Stripping the tags from a web page is easy as pie and doing so while keeping the formatting only slightly less so, so I can't see why screenreaders would have problems with normal html.
And as a normal joe who doesn't work in the IT industry, I've been able to create and maintain an XHTML 1.0 Strict and CSS2-compliant site for over two years now. It's not that hard.
I program fine and I've just found it impossible. But it could just be me.
Any virus writer worth his salt these days will have the main body encrypted, so all the mailer will see without running it is a decryption stub.
The thing is that the DMCA makes even a link to infringing material illegal. No, google doesn't have to check every site they index, but if someone tells them a site they index is violating copyright then they have to take it out of the index and pronto. Personally I think it's absurd that a link to a site can be illegal, but it's been held up in court repeatedly.
No, but once they are made aware of it, the DMCA says they have to get rid of the links. This applies to anyone, not just google - if you have a link to a warez site on your site, even if you have no warez yourself, you can and will be forced to take it down or get sued. Google has removed search results for stuff like this in the past - kazaa lite comes to mind.
The DMCA says that they have to take down the links once they're told about them, that's the thing. Remember google being forced to remove kazaa lite and friends from its search results because it was infringing Sharman's copyrights? This is exactly the same thing.
How about the DMCA takedowns of people offering RSS feeds of google news?
This kind of thing can only work if it's on the machines that will be running the viruses. If you want to scan everything coming in, or at your mail gateway, signature is still the way to go. There's a place for both methods, as has been the case for a long time.
Yes, there is water on mars
I believe the term you're looking for is "Monkey in a spacesuit".
Why not? I can't imagine him having to have foam-clad O-rings to satisfy some voters by being able to build a particular component near them, so tiles would probably work.
Not dying, dead. I suppose I should have done the whole thing about internet share being down, red ink flowing like blood and so forth, but I couldn't be bothered.
It has meant that professionals and big companies are better at producing good websites. Gone is the time when a typical kid in a bedroom would have written the best website on a particular subject, probably hand-coded and hosted on geocities. Now you find a big corporate site to tell you what you need to know, just like any other medium. The web used to be different.
I wonder how many of these attacks are really coming from America. Standard practice is to spoof somewhere that seems to be not worth their time to look into if anyone catches you - eastern europe used to be a favourite, with its famously corrupt and incompetent police forces and the sheer physical distance acting to dissuade US companies or government agencies from bothering to try and bring anyone apparently from there to justice. With the additional hostile political environment and famed elite hackers, China would make a very attractive place to spoof an attack as being from.
In that case long live RSS. This whole XHTML/CSS thing is what killed the web.
True salting adds more than that because the attacker has to capture the salt (which with shadow passwords means you need root access) before they can even start building the database.