and I hope you go read your terms and conditions about how it says you should conduct yourself online in relation to using "IBM employee" comments to enforce a personal opinion. Especially one that is detrimental to the company.
> It is common knowledge that Ctrl-N should be a shortcut to create a new item.
Which is what you are doing pressing CTRL-N. You are getting the dialog to create a new database. Just because you happen to be in a "database" the notes client is independant of what runs within the NSF when it comes to such matters.
The mail database (and Notes for that matter) is accessible ready (for people who have issues moving a mouse). So if you hold the ALT key you can see all the shortcuts highlighted for you. In your case ALT-1 appears to do the job while you are in your mail file.
>And looking at "properties", I get a neat window with >more than half a dozen tabs, containing information >I don't want to care about and would prefer >not to be bothered with.
Heres a thought then. Don't open the properties tab.
> By the way: the silly person who thought a propeller-hat icon was cute for "expert" options
What would you suggest then as an icon instead for such limited space where they are expert options?
>I installed it. It hosed my mailbox, and took a couple of >smarter guys about an hour to disentangle,
Sounds really odd as I am aware of the hack (which incidently should be in your mail template now). Sounds like you should of got someone who knew what they were doing to apply the change to the view. Just because its possible to change doesn't mean you should.
>but if the customizability of Notes is so extensive >that "amateurs" with good intentions can fuck up the >mail app for numerous colleagues, it is so dangerous >that perhaps it wasn't a good idea in the first place.
If you were on the default install for IBM you would have the client only. Which is set up just so to stop people doing what you did. So for such a hack to be installed it would be impossible. You would have to go and find the designer client and install it to do such a hack.
If you have problems with just the client it is unlikely you should be messing with the code.
>As for my admin: I didn't mention it before, but I work at IBM. >I suppose if anyone "could of", the IBM Notes guys "would of".
> I don't know about you, but I am paid to do other things than explore, program, reprogram, tune and configure my e-mail application
Like I said it is shortcomings of your setup and lack of knowledge or to learn. Your admin could of configured the client so you wouldn't have to do anything except...
1. Launch Notes. 2. Click on the huge Mail icon on the screen. 3. Read/Send mail.
Even the replication/archiving can be set by policy documents by the admin.
> just don't seem to be able to find the time to learn to use them.
So what your saying it is your shortcomings that makes the product so bad? You tell us its useless, but then proceed to say you never actually checked anything in it.
Come back to us when you actually have something worth reading as a valid issue.
> couldn't they make it a decent email application!
What version are you referring to?
Currently I have the following features in R7 email.
- Nested coversations. - Rule generation and spam filtering. - Predefined stationary - Mail tracking. - Enhanced search. - Built in viewer for applications I don't have. - Encryption at the sending and saving level. - Replication (when working on different machines). - Saves Chat transcripts. - Automatic Archiving and expiration settings. - Mail highlighting based on certain criteria. eg. If the mail is directly related to me. - Out of office settings. - I can see if a person is online who sent me the email.
I have probably missed some but this is what I primarly use.
So I am curious can you detail what is wrong with the mail client per-se and what version you are referring to? Also what exactly is missing that is in other clients?
> To empower amateur developers to develop terrible applications.
Sadly this is somewhat true and is probably the same reason why there are so many bad applications in VB as well.
It makes it too easy to make them. The skill at that point comes in the planning/design.
I've seen some real horrible clunkers and most of the people who hate Notes seems to be because of this. Take the email for example. It was supposed to be basic email initially. For R7 now they have done an excellent job on the Mail NSF file (that and google mail I find very easy to nagigate/find information). But people get burnt and are reluctant to check out later versions.
On the other hand I have seen some sweet apps written that you wouldn't even know it was a Domino app (over Web or Kiosk mode).
> What exactly is a "groupware application framework"?
Until someone comes along with the official term. As I recall it Groupware refers to an application that enables a distrubited group of users to work together on a project.
Sounds basic enough and Email would fall under that as would C&S, however Notes/Domino allows you to go way beyond that. You have document management and tracking and also workflow for documentation.
I don't know why people seem to think that Notes is an Email app. It isn't. It can be used as an Email application but it is not its primary function.
If you are only using it for email then you wasted your money.
The only issue I can really see is the die hard "MS Office" users thinking that is somehow going to be a nightmare. I routinely use OO in work and save in doc format.
You do know that OpenOffice can be set to default to save in MS Office format and your user would never notice any difference.
How could open office be any more bloated then MS office?
I haven't seen the app working but from the screenshots it looks a little like they will be embeded into NSFs, or something similar so you only load up when needed.
> The last thing they want are problems with > multiple incompatible standards used for business documents.
?? Openoffice can save in DOC format fine. The only thing I have had an issue with OO and MSO is macros written in Excel.
Mod me offtopic if you wish. My last order with Amazon (co.uk) they broke it into two orders which meant I ended up paying more delivery charges. I wrote to them about it, and despite mailing more then once all I ever got back was a form mail saying that he hadn't charged me the extra (yet my CC said otherwise). Still awaiting an answer to that.
Then I find out they no longer sell electronics to Ireland, although they will send to N.I. I sent a mail on that (twice) to ask why this was and both times I got a form mail back just pointing me to the webpage that just says they don't ship there.
Very frustrating. Soon as I find a better online bookstore I'm off to that.
Paladin 144 post pretty much debunks what you said. To add to that you did see the TV footage of the (AFAIR) the diplomat of Saudi passing on a message saying that OBL thanked the US for helping him in Afganistan?
If I was you, I would also look into the "Northern Alliance" that was just a fancy name put onto them by the US so people wouldn't pry into what they were really like. As people go they make the Taliban look tame.
SkyPE has a slight P2P ability in it. Those of you with a good processor/machine the SKYPE client will go into "Supernode" mode. This allows people to route thier calls through your bandwidth.
This is one of the reasons I don't leave skype running all the time.
> . This means that the US can demand extradition of a lot of foreign > citizens while those people's countries can't do the same to us.
Actually some can. Ireland for example. Last year a bill was snuck through when most of the TDs where on holiday that allowed US officials (CIA/Police) to question/hold a suspect without rights on Irish soil and also extridite them under certain conditions (eg. Must get a fair trial comparable to Ireland). Part of that bill signed into law with the US also allows Ireland to extridite/hold US citizens the same way.
> The US has extradition treaties > with countries they determine are lawful, like the UK.
They have one with Italy too, but it didn't stop them kidnapping someone from that country against Italys wishes. US only follows international law as long as it is in thier favour.
A system where your vote may not mean anything depending on what part of the country you live in and that you end up with the choice of only two runners. Also after a tie no system to break the tie except to be voted in by your friends you put in power before. Well I wouldn't much call that a democracy.
At least Saddam was a bit more honest about it when he made sure everyone voted for him.
> The ones from Northern Ireland are. It's > correct to call people from Northern Ireland > "Irish" or "British".
Well I would of referred to N.I. as British as thats thier nationality (least for now). Calling Irish British is more likely to annoy the majority of Irish if you are not so clear that you are referring to N.I. only.
The person I was initially responding to didn't make that fact clear.
> By referring to people from the UK as British, > you're still going to piss off some Irish
Your going to piss off all of them. They are not British. Northern Ireland now you might annoy a few, but please don't refer to Ireland as British. It is not part of the UK either.
About that only thing British you can tag Ireland with is "British Isles", but even that isn't fully reconised in Ireland (despite it being only a geographical reference).
Not sure if it was WebVan, but there was a great one in Boston when I lived there.
As I was working silly hours back in those days by the time I got home there was really no time to shop. The internet shop was a boon. I was even surprised when the delivery guys refused a tip.
From what I Gather they were in business for years before the dot.com and had moved from phone service to internet service. They then expanded out to other states. That and the insane price of maintaining the website is what killed them though.
Slashdot Mirror
and I hope you go read your terms and conditions about how it says you should conduct yourself online in relation to using "IBM employee" comments to enforce a personal opinion. Especially one that is detrimental to the company.
> It is common knowledge that Ctrl-N should be a shortcut to create a new item.
Which is what you are doing pressing CTRL-N. You are getting the dialog to create a new database. Just because you happen to be in a "database" the notes client is independant of what runs within the NSF when it comes to such matters.
The mail database (and Notes for that matter) is accessible ready (for people who have issues moving a mouse). So if you hold the ALT key you can see all the shortcuts highlighted for you. In your case ALT-1 appears to do the job while you are in your mail file.
>And looking at "properties", I get a neat window with
>more than half a dozen tabs, containing information
>I don't want to care about and would prefer
>not to be bothered with.
Heres a thought then. Don't open the properties tab.
> By the way: the silly person who thought a propeller-hat icon was cute for "expert" options
What would you suggest then as an icon instead for such limited space where they are expert options?
>I installed it. It hosed my mailbox, and took a couple of
>smarter guys about an hour to disentangle,
Sounds really odd as I am aware of the hack (which incidently should be in your mail template now). Sounds like you should of got someone who knew what they were doing to apply the change to the view. Just because its possible to change doesn't mean you should.
>but if the customizability of Notes is so extensive
>that "amateurs" with good intentions can fuck up the
>mail app for numerous colleagues, it is so dangerous
>that perhaps it wasn't a good idea in the first place.
If you were on the default install for IBM you would have the client only. Which is set up just so to stop people doing what you did. So for such a hack to be installed it would be impossible. You would have to go and find the designer client and install it to do such a hack.
If you have problems with just the client it is unlikely you should be messing with the code.
>As for my admin: I didn't mention it before, but I work at IBM.
>I suppose if anyone "could of", the IBM Notes guys "would of".
Then put an IS request in.
> I don't know about you, but I am paid to do other things than explore, program, reprogram, tune and configure my e-mail application
Like I said it is shortcomings of your setup and lack of knowledge or to learn. Your admin could of configured the client so you wouldn't have to do anything except...
1. Launch Notes.
2. Click on the huge Mail icon on the screen.
3. Read/Send mail.
Even the replication/archiving can be set by policy documents by the admin.
> just don't seem to be able to find the time to learn to use them.
So what your saying it is your shortcomings that makes the product so bad? You tell us its useless, but then proceed to say you never actually checked anything in it.
Come back to us when you actually have something worth reading as a valid issue.
> couldn't they make it a decent email application!
What version are you referring to?
Currently I have the following features in R7 email.
- Nested coversations.
- Rule generation and spam filtering.
- Predefined stationary
- Mail tracking.
- Enhanced search.
- Built in viewer for applications I don't have.
- Encryption at the sending and saving level.
- Replication (when working on different machines).
- Saves Chat transcripts.
- Automatic Archiving and expiration settings.
- Mail highlighting based on certain criteria. eg. If the mail is directly related to me.
- Out of office settings.
- I can see if a person is online who sent me the email.
I have probably missed some but this is what I primarly use.
So I am curious can you detail what is wrong with the mail client per-se and what version you are referring to? Also what exactly is missing that is in other clients?
> To empower amateur developers to develop terrible applications.
Sadly this is somewhat true and is probably the same reason why there are so many bad applications in VB as well.
It makes it too easy to make them. The skill at that point comes in the planning/design.
I've seen some real horrible clunkers and most of the people who hate Notes seems to be because of this. Take the email for example. It was supposed to be basic email initially. For R7 now they have done an excellent job on the Mail NSF file (that and google mail I find very easy to nagigate/find information). But people get burnt and are reluctant to check out later versions.
On the other hand I have seen some sweet apps written that you wouldn't even know it was a Domino app (over Web or Kiosk mode).
> What exactly is a "groupware application framework"?
Until someone comes along with the official term. As I recall it Groupware refers to an application that enables a distrubited group of users to work together on a project.
Sounds basic enough and Email would fall under that as would C&S, however Notes/Domino allows you to go way beyond that. You have document management and tracking and also workflow for documentation.
Groupware term has been around for years.
>an already way-too-large email app.
*sigh*
I don't know why people seem to think that Notes is an Email app. It isn't. It can be used as an Email application but it is not its primary function.
If you are only using it for email then you wasted your money.
The only issue I can really see is the die hard "MS Office" users thinking that is somehow going to be a nightmare. I routinely use OO in work and save in doc format.
You do know that OpenOffice can be set to default to save in MS Office format and your user would never notice any difference.
However they are all in the EU and there is no restrictions shipping electrical goods from any country in the EU.
I can even buy electrical goods from other online stores in the UK. So they have another reason for it.
I had it flagged as ship in one shipment, which was my contention. I am aware of the ship as soon as possible.
How could open office be any more bloated then MS office?
I haven't seen the app working but from the screenshots it looks a little like they will be embeded into NSFs, or something similar so you only load up when needed.
> The last thing they want are problems with
> multiple incompatible standards used for business documents.
?? Openoffice can save in DOC format fine. The only thing I have had an issue with OO and MSO is macros written in Excel.
Pure fud if you ask me.
You beat me to it! :O
Mod me offtopic if you wish. My last order with Amazon (co.uk) they broke it into two orders which meant I ended up paying more delivery charges. I wrote to them about it, and despite mailing more then once all I ever got back was a form mail saying that he hadn't charged me the extra (yet my CC said otherwise). Still awaiting an answer to that.
Then I find out they no longer sell electronics to Ireland, although they will send to N.I. I sent a mail on that (twice) to ask why this was and both times I got a form mail back just pointing me to the webpage that just says they don't ship there.
Very frustrating. Soon as I find a better online bookstore I'm off to that.
Paladin 144 post pretty much debunks what you said. To add to that you did see the TV footage of the (AFAIR) the diplomat of Saudi passing on a message saying that OBL thanked the US for helping him in Afganistan?
0 5.htm
If I was you, I would also look into the "Northern Alliance" that was just a fancy name put onto them by the US so people wouldn't pry into what they were really like. As people go they make the Taliban look tame.
http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/asia/afghan-bck10
SkyPE has a slight P2P ability in it. Those of you with a good processor/machine the SKYPE client will go into "Supernode" mode. This allows people to route thier calls through your bandwidth.
This is one of the reasons I don't leave skype running all the time.
> . This means that the US can demand extradition of a lot of foreign
> citizens while those people's countries can't do the same to us.
Actually some can. Ireland for example. Last year a bill was snuck through when most of the TDs where on holiday that allowed US officials (CIA/Police) to question/hold a suspect without rights on Irish soil and also extridite them under certain conditions (eg. Must get a fair trial comparable to Ireland). Part of that bill signed into law with the US also allows Ireland to extridite/hold US citizens the same way.
Not that it is likely to happen though.
> The US has extradition treaties
> with countries they determine are lawful, like the UK.
They have one with Italy too, but it didn't stop them kidnapping someone from that country against Italys wishes. US only follows international law as long as it is in thier favour.
and think that site kind of sucked.
A system where your vote may not mean anything depending on what part of the country you live in and that you end up with the choice of only two runners. Also after a tie no system to break the tie except to be voted in by your friends you put in power before. Well I wouldn't much call that a democracy.
At least Saddam was a bit more honest about it when he made sure everyone voted for him.
Isn't that the whole point of shares (apart from getting some money back)
"by forgotten_my_nick (802929) on Thursday May 04, @12:16PM (#15261203)"
for yous in the other timezone you can have "Revenge of the 5th".
Just so I could say "May the 4th be with you".
*drumroll* *cymbals*
Thank you, thank you, try the lobster.
> The ones from Northern Ireland are. It's
> correct to call people from Northern Ireland
> "Irish" or "British".
Well I would of referred to N.I. as British as thats thier nationality (least for now). Calling Irish British is more likely to annoy the majority of Irish if you are not so clear that you are referring to N.I. only.
The person I was initially responding to didn't make that fact clear.
> By referring to people from the UK as British,
> you're still going to piss off some Irish
Your going to piss off all of them. They are not British. Northern Ireland now you might annoy a few, but please don't refer to Ireland as British. It is not part of the UK either.
About that only thing British you can tag Ireland with is "British Isles", but even that isn't fully reconised in Ireland (despite it being only a geographical reference).
Not sure if it was WebVan, but there was a great one in Boston when I lived there.
As I was working silly hours back in those days by the time I got home there was really no time to shop. The internet shop was a boon. I was even surprised when the delivery guys refused a tip.
From what I Gather they were in business for years before the dot.com and had moved from phone service to internet service. They then expanded out to other states. That and the insane price of maintaining the website is what killed them though.
Shame really.