I have been running server 2008 on an old gaming machine with 1GB ram, a 512MB NVIDIA 6800, 72GB raptor drive, athlon 2200 as well. Been very quick and clean on the interface, customization options are nice. I was just about to slap exchange 2007 on it last night to test drive it and forgot it is 64bit only. But as usual I am dissappointed with the lack of ssh support. I will have to read the article to see what the forest changes are with 2008 as when I promoted the server there was no difference that I could tell between 2003 AD and 2008, but there was a note about 2008 forests being different or something like that.
It does however make me wonder if my graphics card was pushing the speed of the interface, how am I going to justify to my department head that I need the latest gaming card for my server? I have been trying that excuse for years to no avail:)
Oh you don't wanna open that can o worms, you are just asking for end end times debate, premillennial, postmillennial, amillennial. Oh and about 5 other end time beliefs. You have to be one hell of a scholar to be credible in any of them and they tend to be pretty abusive arguments.
That depends on if you are an old-earth creationist or a young earth creationist. Progressive creationism vs 7-day. Some creationists tout that God used evolution in 7 non 24hour periods. Other individuals contest that Adam and Eve were much older than suggested (how long would it take you to denounce a perfect being that catered to your every whim?). The 6-10K comes from calculating the lineage of christ which Jews were very good at keeping accurate, which is a fact whether you believe in Yahweh or not, Jews love their saturdays:)
So now as a creationist all I need to do is take my least favorite scientific postings, twist their words to say what I want them to and viola they get retracted and denounced! Wow, why didn't I think of this before?
I havent noticed all that much of a performance hit on my VMs. I run ESX and wouldnt put SQL or exchange on it but for webservers, fileservers, and dev servers.....it is just phenominal because as you put it, most apps done fully use CPUs anyway, especially with the hardware that is out there now adays.
actually in my shop it comes out about even so far...7K for enterprise licensing, buy a 30K server to house 15 servers that I could have bought for 2-3K a piece. The big plus for me is rackspace, and manageablilty, things like VMotion are phenominal products, not to mention not having to buy an expensive IP KVM so I can manage all my servers from one console. Snapshots and localized storage, not to mention managing drivers and upgrading hardware is a breeze.
But to load up a server with multiple instances of the same operating system is ludicrous. It certainly doesn't scale well at all.
What is the difference between the popular, "by 10 Dell 2650s and slap server 2003 on all of them" or "buy 1 2650 and slap 10 server 2003s on it?" Answer? nothing other than that with the virtual server you have a layer in between the hardware and OS, which 'could' offer greater security or worse. It is up in the air right now as in my opinion Virtual environments tend to put out patches faster than windows, keeping up with Linux. You say this yourself in your last paragraph.
The fault as other posters mentioned, is not with the software, but with the security measures taken to protect the underlying Apps. Admins have been running multiple Apps on one server since the beginning of the computer era. Look at servers running Apache, samba, posfix...they are just as supseptable. Now with a VM environment you can at least split them apart and kill them. If you have actually used a VM environment like the VI clients that you get from VMware there are multiple features that actually give you a step up on traditional physical environments.
In the end it is a comfort game, if you are intelligent enough, VM environments can be waaaaay more secure than traditional bare metal installs. If you are not up on your game, you shouldnt be playing anyway. I aim for reliability and security, vs ease of use and support time. VM gives me a level of comfort with my network that I cannot get without VM.
I dont know about other people in this forum but my threat to uptime is not hackers. It is user error (viruses, deleted files, massive e-mails) and proper maintainance schedules. I properly manage my firewall, keep my patches up to date and that takes care of enough of the "malicous user" problem to make me comfortable. Since switching to VM my uptime is through the roof, costs are about the same, maintainance is a bit more complex, and hardware issues are simple and rare.
Of course what do I know I am just a biased vm user who graduated a long time ago from the winNT/redhat conspiracy theories.
If anyone else can think of good ones feel free to append to this post so maybe these trollers/ignorant users will see that there is more to networking than surfing porn and e-mailing their russian GF.
AMEN! Heck I am on a Gig local LAN and that get saturated often enough with file transfers. (Think ISO pushes, Massive multimedia projects, etc) These piddly 20Mb/s networks have a long way to go to catch up to bandwidth usage. I don't know about you but in my opinion, internet service is probably the one piece of hardware tech that actually has not managed to keep up with the game. In my part of the country we are still paying 300+ for T1 connections. $200 for a 5/1 from TimeWarner. Which barely cuts it, I wouldn't even think of hosting a website on it, even if I was distributed across 4-5 connections on different servers.
Try having a company routinely have "billing errors" of $10-$20 a month, you have to correct them and watch your bills like a hawk. Makes me wonder how many people Alltel has screwed over that simply pay their bills every month. Or a company that re-routes your calls in what appears to be circles you just get an infinite clicking sound until you redial. Or voice mail that never picks up, or any of a billion technical issues. Not to mention all of 3 brick style phones to choose from until the contracts open up. But hey at least I have customer support 24-7.
Maybe this is me being a grass is greener guy but Verizon, while having crappy customer support seems to be be on the cutting edge of mobile tech, and their network is more reliable than most from what I hear. Perhaps the powers that be decided to redirect funds to tech development rather than band aids to handle the poor support you get otherwise. But take this all with a grain of salt since I don't have any first hand experience with verison.
Believing that your generation is somehow smarter is an incredibly common blindspot.
My point exactly, maybe you missed it. The point was not that gen Y X or (pick your gen) is better smarter or lazier than another. But the idea that "special considerations" need to be taken into account with our current generation is assinine. Just because kids have tech now doesnt mean that they are any less/more capable of learning. My gen X group had a problem with laziness and were the beginning to the "I have issues with my father" therapy group. This group tends to be a bit more ADHD specific, I attribute that to the instant gratification we all have now with technology. We expect it from the learning process as well now.
Each generation has their issues. However, what disproves my point is that having grown up with Teachers, gone to college with Teachers, and worked with schools over the past 5 years (not that long). I have heard enough teachers complain about this current generation that there is something different. The entitlement that has been hanging around since gen X has grown a bit, and you start to see these articles on how this new generation is "special" and "smarter" if we would just give them special consideration because they have more technology than the other gens. I dont know if this is really true but it is interesting that teachers that have taught for 30 years are noticing a downward trend. You can't prove it because academic scores have been doctored over the last 15 years in a fight for funding (not conspiracy theory, fact). What you are starting to see it in, is talk to college professors, I want to see if the HS teachers are right, because if they are there should be a higher failure rate and lower grades in college now but I haven't seen any stats yet to confirm or deny it.
Since when did kids actually care about the curriculum, heck even go to a college/university. How many of the students there actually care about what they are studying. Sure they might hit 3 classes that actually interest them, there are a few of us that enjoyed most of them. But the mentality is, it is a right of passage, not a learning process.
Yes, you hit the nail on the head, hard. What need to be worked on is consequence, thanks to recent political changes kids have no fear of failing, and if they do fail no one cares. Change that mentality and you can use any material you want to teach:)
"showing them real web design with high level software and how make their own digital music on DAWs"
Wow, just wow. Good luck with that CS degree, maybe you want to look into Vo-Tech rather than wasting you skillz with an actual abstract degree that will require you thinking and not looking at pretty lights and GUIs.
The problem with students in HS today is the students are practically incapable of abstract thought, something you usually start to grasp in Junior High. It is a type of visual addiction, where a kid cannot learn unless there is a flashy demo to go with it. This poses a problem because these flashy demos are expensive to put together and all of our schools money are going to the "no child left behind" so that now no one understands dick. I predict BS curriculum's will drop off the face of the earth because, why understand it when you can stand on someone else's shoulders and see the view. As it has been said earlier in this forum, people dont care about the how, they just care that it works. The 4 year college is doomed with this mentality and we as a nation will slowly crash.
Tell ya what, if you are capable, try to read some Ann Ryand, or in your case go find some cliffs notes and try to slowly grasp what happens to the society in the book.
And there is a HUGE difference between being a hobbyist and an actual professional.
However, as most seasoned IT people have figured out, 90% of the public user realm will never know the real stuff you do to make their world better. However they will think you an IT genius if you can show them how to color code their excel spreadsheet. Which is, I think how many IT people got their jobs in the first place...."Woah, a pie chart???!? You must be able to secure our webserver, manage our devs, and negotiate 6 figure budgets, thats the same!"
You raise good points. As I said in my post I am more than happy to have the gov't regulate lines from the deregulation and the leasing of said lines. I would also agree with your statement about the Telecom Act. I refer to gov't dabbling in companies where the gov't has no business....eg the lines that Verison lays themselves and data transfered over them. These are the lines I was referring to above, just like cable companies.
Unfortunately, with the talk radio example this is a real situation, as ludicrous as it sounds.
Thank you for the intelligent response, I never expect them when I go into soapbox tirade mode:)
In all honesty, where do you live that you only have one choice? If you are in the US you definately have at least 2. Last I checked Verison and Alltel have guaranteed coverage nationwide. Whether or not you have a vendor within a mile is a different issue.
Currently I live in midwest, having grown up in BFE midwest I still had 2 options at least when cell coverage arrived.
Perhaps, but the idea that a private corporation that's answerable to nobody but their shareholders and/or private owners is even scarier. Here is where we could get into a nasty debate on Big Gov't vs Little Gov't, and maybe that is where we differ. I am the despised independent, I dont really hold to any party but see interesting developments in both. However I think the idea of controlling business with law is going to get us in trouble one of these days. Things are beyond bad with tax laws, (try starting a legit small business sometime). You can barely keep up with tax laws when all the sudden you have the "National Moral Behavior" system bearing down on you. On top of that is the constant threat of being sued because you didnt behave right on a technicality. (Not saying that businesses should be exempt, if they breach contract or break civil laws then that is a problem). But, the sue happy nation of ours (coughSCOcough) is killing small and big businesses alike. The capitalist system does work, the gov't needs to make sure citizen rights are not violated, that is it. They shouldnt be telling big or small business how to run things. If they are really worried about information transfer in the US then they need to re-regulate the phone system.
Actually, we have the Verizon monopoly where I live, but the government regulators have seen fit to force them to allow a sort of semi-competitive market, and we get our Internet service over their wires from speakeasy.net
This is the kind of behavior that I despise in the gov't, Verison spends millions on burying wire to bring a service to your door and are forced to allow other vendors in so they dont have to do the work. It is the Lazy american way, "Everything should be done for me mentality". If you are in an area where Joe Taxpayer buried the lines THEN you can have the gov't regulate the lines. But if I am correct, verizon has been burying their own lines in may areas. You may/may not be in an area where this is the case. If it is in an area where the gov't buried the lines originally then I am all for the gov't telling people what can and cant be done over them. A business can always tell them to go screw themselves and bury their own lines.
Next thing you know Bread Trucks are going to have to carry mom and pop pastries as well because it is not fair that Old Home has so many trucks. Or taxi drivers are goign to have to give free rides to Joe Welfare because it isnt fair that they cant afford a car.
Getting what I am saying? The Fed gov't needs to be reigned in, they need to keep rights enforced, make sure taxes are paid, defend from outside threats, maintain good foreign relations, and stabilize the dollar. At the most the states should be allowed to create business laws never the federal gov't. At least then business would have a choice where to plant their feet and the states would have to compete for the jobs. The consumers would be allowed a choice of where to live as well. That is the way the US was intended to be run but that wont happen again short of a revolution.
-steps down from soapbox-
If they signed up to receive a message and never receive it I think that would be a good indicator that your current service provider was behaving in a way that you may not like and would warrant further investigation.
However, this begs the argument of what Law should enforce in business. What if I am a consumer that wants to be on a filtered network? What if company X wants to ban what they deem as offensive content to their customers? Or what if Joe SixPack starts receiving political advertisements that do not reflect well on Verizon's policies.
I am more of a consumer who believes in the power of capitalism. As long as the phone company in question outlines their company policies I can make my own decision on which company behaves the way I like. The idea that the gov't can force companies to behave politically in whatever wind controls the gov't at the time is scary to me.
What is next? Telling talk radio they have to give equal airtime to all opinions?
To break it down, let companies deal with policies the way they want, the consumer will speak in the end. We all know there are enough choices for phone companies now. As long as you are not a gov't agency then the gov't needs to stay the hell out.
Well that is disappointing, I have been looking forward to reading the wheel of time series, probably wont be as bad reading it all at once vs waiting for each book to come out.
Slashdot Mirror
It does however make me wonder if my graphics card was pushing the speed of the interface, how am I going to justify to my department head that I need the latest gaming card for my server? I have been trying that excuse for years to no avail :)
Oh you don't wanna open that can o worms, you are just asking for end end times debate, premillennial, postmillennial, amillennial. Oh and about 5 other end time beliefs. You have to be one hell of a scholar to be credible in any of them and they tend to be pretty abusive arguments.
That depends on if you are an old-earth creationist or a young earth creationist. Progressive creationism vs 7-day. Some creationists tout that God used evolution in 7 non 24hour periods. Other individuals contest that Adam and Eve were much older than suggested (how long would it take you to denounce a perfect being that catered to your every whim?). The 6-10K comes from calculating the lineage of christ which Jews were very good at keeping accurate, which is a fact whether you believe in Yahweh or not, Jews love their saturdays :)
So now as a creationist all I need to do is take my least favorite scientific postings, twist their words to say what I want them to and viola they get retracted and denounced! Wow, why didn't I think of this before?
I havent noticed all that much of a performance hit on my VMs. I run ESX and wouldnt put SQL or exchange on it but for webservers, fileservers, and dev servers.....it is just phenominal because as you put it, most apps done fully use CPUs anyway, especially with the hardware that is out there now adays.
actually in my shop it comes out about even so far...7K for enterprise licensing, buy a 30K server to house 15 servers that I could have bought for 2-3K a piece. The big plus for me is rackspace, and manageablilty, things like VMotion are phenominal products, not to mention not having to buy an expensive IP KVM so I can manage all my servers from one console. Snapshots and localized storage, not to mention managing drivers and upgrading hardware is a breeze.
What is the difference between the popular, "by 10 Dell 2650s and slap server 2003 on all of them" or "buy 1 2650 and slap 10 server 2003s on it?" Answer? nothing other than that with the virtual server you have a layer in between the hardware and OS, which 'could' offer greater security or worse. It is up in the air right now as in my opinion Virtual environments tend to put out patches faster than windows, keeping up with Linux. You say this yourself in your last paragraph.
The fault as other posters mentioned, is not with the software, but with the security measures taken to protect the underlying Apps. Admins have been running multiple Apps on one server since the beginning of the computer era. Look at servers running Apache, samba, posfix...they are just as supseptable. Now with a VM environment you can at least split them apart and kill them. If you have actually used a VM environment like the VI clients that you get from VMware there are multiple features that actually give you a step up on traditional physical environments.
In the end it is a comfort game, if you are intelligent enough, VM environments can be waaaaay more secure than traditional bare metal installs. If you are not up on your game, you shouldnt be playing anyway. I aim for reliability and security, vs ease of use and support time. VM gives me a level of comfort with my network that I cannot get without VM.
I dont know about other people in this forum but my threat to uptime is not hackers. It is user error (viruses, deleted files, massive e-mails) and proper maintainance schedules. I properly manage my firewall, keep my patches up to date and that takes care of enough of the "malicous user" problem to make me comfortable. Since switching to VM my uptime is through the roof, costs are about the same, maintainance is a bit more complex, and hardware issues are simple and rare.
Of course what do I know I am just a biased vm user who graduated a long time ago from the winNT/redhat conspiracy theories.
Huh, after re-reading my post I realize that my post directly corresponds to the Microsoft/Linux debate.
oops, forgot to close my tag...my bad.
IT profession reasons:
Web dev's FTP access
ISO push for sys admins loading SQL2005
Virtual servers rely heavily on ISO push as well
Seamless VPN connections
Personal reasons:
Flickr
Sharing home videos with grandma
Easy home backups
More realistic gaming experiences
Video chat with multiple family members
If anyone else can think of good ones feel free to append to this post so maybe these trollers/ignorant users will see that there is more to networking than surfing porn and e-mailing their russian GF.
So? What web admin doesn't know how to do a port redirection from a remote host?
AMEN! Heck I am on a Gig local LAN and that get saturated often enough with file transfers. (Think ISO pushes, Massive multimedia projects, etc) These piddly 20Mb/s networks have a long way to go to catch up to bandwidth usage. I don't know about you but in my opinion, internet service is probably the one piece of hardware tech that actually has not managed to keep up with the game. In my part of the country we are still paying 300+ for T1 connections. $200 for a 5/1 from TimeWarner. Which barely cuts it, I wouldn't even think of hosting a website on it, even if I was distributed across 4-5 connections on different servers.
Maybe this is me being a grass is greener guy but Verizon, while having crappy customer support seems to be be on the cutting edge of mobile tech, and their network is more reliable than most from what I hear. Perhaps the powers that be decided to redirect funds to tech development rather than band aids to handle the poor support you get otherwise. But take this all with a grain of salt since I don't have any first hand experience with verison.
My point exactly, maybe you missed it. The point was not that gen Y X or (pick your gen) is better smarter or lazier than another. But the idea that "special considerations" need to be taken into account with our current generation is assinine. Just because kids have tech now doesnt mean that they are any less/more capable of learning. My gen X group had a problem with laziness and were the beginning to the "I have issues with my father" therapy group. This group tends to be a bit more ADHD specific, I attribute that to the instant gratification we all have now with technology. We expect it from the learning process as well now.
Each generation has their issues. However, what disproves my point is that having grown up with Teachers, gone to college with Teachers, and worked with schools over the past 5 years (not that long). I have heard enough teachers complain about this current generation that there is something different. The entitlement that has been hanging around since gen X has grown a bit, and you start to see these articles on how this new generation is "special" and "smarter" if we would just give them special consideration because they have more technology than the other gens. I dont know if this is really true but it is interesting that teachers that have taught for 30 years are noticing a downward trend. You can't prove it because academic scores have been doctored over the last 15 years in a fight for funding (not conspiracy theory, fact). What you are starting to see it in, is talk to college professors, I want to see if the HS teachers are right, because if they are there should be a higher failure rate and lower grades in college now but I haven't seen any stats yet to confirm or deny it.
Since when did kids actually care about the curriculum, heck even go to a college/university. How many of the students there actually care about what they are studying. Sure they might hit 3 classes that actually interest them, there are a few of us that enjoyed most of them. But the mentality is, it is a right of passage, not a learning process.
Yes, you hit the nail on the head, hard. What need to be worked on is consequence, thanks to recent political changes kids have no fear of failing, and if they do fail no one cares. Change that mentality and you can use any material you want to teach :)
Wow, just wow. Good luck with that CS degree, maybe you want to look into Vo-Tech rather than wasting you skillz with an actual abstract degree that will require you thinking and not looking at pretty lights and GUIs.
The problem with students in HS today is the students are practically incapable of abstract thought, something you usually start to grasp in Junior High. It is a type of visual addiction, where a kid cannot learn unless there is a flashy demo to go with it. This poses a problem because these flashy demos are expensive to put together and all of our schools money are going to the "no child left behind" so that now no one understands dick. I predict BS curriculum's will drop off the face of the earth because, why understand it when you can stand on someone else's shoulders and see the view. As it has been said earlier in this forum, people dont care about the how, they just care that it works. The 4 year college is doomed with this mentality and we as a nation will slowly crash.
Tell ya what, if you are capable, try to read some Ann Ryand, or in your case go find some cliffs notes and try to slowly grasp what happens to the society in the book.
Good lord where are my mod points when I need them. Best post on this subject I have read so far!
However, as most seasoned IT people have figured out, 90% of the public user realm will never know the real stuff you do to make their world better. However they will think you an IT genius if you can show them how to color code their excel spreadsheet. Which is, I think how many IT people got their jobs in the first place...."Woah, a pie chart???!? You must be able to secure our webserver, manage our devs, and negotiate 6 figure budgets, thats the same!"
Could be worse, I have been reading /. since 98-99 didnt register until 2002....talk about a bloated UID :)
Thank you for the intelligent response, I never expect them when I go into soapbox tirade mode :)
Currently I live in midwest, having grown up in BFE midwest I still had 2 options at least when cell coverage arrived.
Perhaps, but the idea that a private corporation that's answerable to nobody but their shareholders and/or private owners is even scarier. Here is where we could get into a nasty debate on Big Gov't vs Little Gov't, and maybe that is where we differ. I am the despised independent, I dont really hold to any party but see interesting developments in both. However I think the idea of controlling business with law is going to get us in trouble one of these days. Things are beyond bad with tax laws, (try starting a legit small business sometime). You can barely keep up with tax laws when all the sudden you have the "National Moral Behavior" system bearing down on you. On top of that is the constant threat of being sued because you didnt behave right on a technicality. (Not saying that businesses should be exempt, if they breach contract or break civil laws then that is a problem). But, the sue happy nation of ours (coughSCOcough) is killing small and big businesses alike. The capitalist system does work, the gov't needs to make sure citizen rights are not violated, that is it. They shouldnt be telling big or small business how to run things. If they are really worried about information transfer in the US then they need to re-regulate the phone system.
Actually, we have the Verizon monopoly where I live, but the government regulators have seen fit to force them to allow a sort of semi-competitive market, and we get our Internet service over their wires from speakeasy.net
This is the kind of behavior that I despise in the gov't, Verison spends millions on burying wire to bring a service to your door and are forced to allow other vendors in so they dont have to do the work. It is the Lazy american way, "Everything should be done for me mentality". If you are in an area where Joe Taxpayer buried the lines THEN you can have the gov't regulate the lines. But if I am correct, verizon has been burying their own lines in may areas. You may/may not be in an area where this is the case. If it is in an area where the gov't buried the lines originally then I am all for the gov't telling people what can and cant be done over them. A business can always tell them to go screw themselves and bury their own lines.
Next thing you know Bread Trucks are going to have to carry mom and pop pastries as well because it is not fair that Old Home has so many trucks. Or taxi drivers are goign to have to give free rides to Joe Welfare because it isnt fair that they cant afford a car. Getting what I am saying? The Fed gov't needs to be reigned in, they need to keep rights enforced, make sure taxes are paid, defend from outside threats, maintain good foreign relations, and stabilize the dollar. At the most the states should be allowed to create business laws never the federal gov't. At least then business would have a choice where to plant their feet and the states would have to compete for the jobs. The consumers would be allowed a choice of where to live as well. That is the way the US was intended to be run but that wont happen again short of a revolution. -steps down from soapbox-
If they signed up to receive a message and never receive it I think that would be a good indicator that your current service provider was behaving in a way that you may not like and would warrant further investigation.
I am more of a consumer who believes in the power of capitalism. As long as the phone company in question outlines their company policies I can make my own decision on which company behaves the way I like. The idea that the gov't can force companies to behave politically in whatever wind controls the gov't at the time is scary to me.
What is next? Telling talk radio they have to give equal airtime to all opinions?
To break it down, let companies deal with policies the way they want, the consumer will speak in the end. We all know there are enough choices for phone companies now. As long as you are not a gov't agency then the gov't needs to stay the hell out.
Well that is disappointing, I have been looking forward to reading the wheel of time series, probably wont be as bad reading it all at once vs waiting for each book to come out.