This does not speak about pragmatism. This speaks more to some darker aspects of human nature that has nothing to do with pragmatism. A pragmatist would also have enough insight to at least consider the consequence of their own actions. Not the case.
I'm curious, now, as it strikes me reading your comment, what other world object exists out there that defines its own purpose to you? It seems that this is all that its about. What you have on your lap isn't telling you what to do with it. It obviously would have been nice if the person you got the object from would have told you... be it documentation, word of mouth, comments or whatever, but the rub is, in real life, that's not exactly a given. Software or otherwise.
As a 28 yearold developer, I can say that from my limited experience is that documentation is hardly ever sought after. In retrospect, I do wish this was not the case. I would have been a better programmer.
It's a pernicious and ageist myth that middle aged and older people cannot learn new skills and cannot blossom in new endeavors.
One rebutted as recently as last month when discussing the structural changes of the brain that London cabbies undergo during their training. It's natural. We (as apes) always foam at the mouth (look down) whenever something rubs us just right.
Don't forget, that pointy haired boss may not be all that honest. Going down in flames for someone else's decisions is only deserved if you had knowledge and a say.
I guess I asked because when I tried to get "formal" education, I was extremely disappointed. Perhaps it was due to the lack of money that I ended up in the school that I did. And so it became my experience that to learn much of anything, I'm on my own.
You're right, I was not quoting you. I was quoting cb88... the parent post. It shows up under the correct thread for me. Maybe something's up with the site? Here is what he said:
There is a difference between "taking time to understand it" and having it shoved down my throat and ridiculed if I believe anything different which is what is experienced in universities and I would even expect in many high schools. I would argue that I know rather a bit more about evolution than most and probably on par with most/.ers... I wasn't contending that students should brush it aside but as in my cause I shall take it with a grain of salt.
What they also don't grasp is the downward spiral that will surely ensue after the layoffs. Not understanding the abstraction means you will not comprehend the consequences thereof. This is why we have such a huge problem with inefficient software. As per your example of sorting in a single line of code, at the very least, you need to understand the concept of identity. The one liner you write to sort a collection could delegate to a bubble sort. Great if that's what you need, but how do you decide on that if you don't know the theory? The 2 liner you provided for the print statement... again, different IO methods have different consequences, though in essence the program is complete, understand that your trivial example does not do anything useful. It isn't the useless, trivial examples that require understanding. Its the examples that require one to think through complicated criteria and constraints. The point is that you can only make brain dead programs if you cannot imbue the theory into your code. Garbage in -> garbage out.
"but then, using C++ makes me somewhat archaic" It doesn't make your archaic. Your personal attitude is another matter though. I have yet to see a language as powerful and as diverse as C++. From the simplicity of the C constructs all the way up to meta-programming magic. Most people gripe about the syntax, but notation is a very small part of it, and is the way it is for pragmatic reasons. Its what it makes your mind do that's so fascinating.
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This does not speak about pragmatism. This speaks more to some darker aspects of human nature that has nothing to do with pragmatism. A pragmatist would also have enough insight to at least consider the consequence of their own actions. Not the case.
I'm curious, now, as it strikes me reading your comment, what other world object exists out there that defines its own purpose to you? It seems that this is all that its about. What you have on your lap isn't telling you what to do with it. It obviously would have been nice if the person you got the object from would have told you... be it documentation, word of mouth, comments or whatever, but the rub is, in real life, that's not exactly a given. Software or otherwise.
Be on the same level as someone who has nothing to offer? Is this the lowest bar? Or is there an option to go even lower?
As a 28 yearold developer, I can say that from my limited experience is that documentation is hardly ever sought after. In retrospect, I do wish this was not the case. I would have been a better programmer.
One rebutted as recently as last month when discussing the structural changes of the brain that London cabbies undergo during their training. It's natural. We (as apes) always foam at the mouth (look down) whenever something rubs us just right.
See Penn & Teller's "Bullshit". Most people, in a blind test, find non-organic foods taste better. Hmm.
Calculon, say its not so!
Repeat yourself much? You sound like an arrogant child at this point.
I think it has more to do with "barrier to entry" than anything else.
So they should be penalized for doing it right? where are you going with this?
So is a lady doing calculations with pen and paper. Somehow I don't think whoever made that prediction had those in mind.
I believe those are called "calculators"!.
this does not make any sense either way you turn it.
The problem stems from the fact that past all abstractions, code is data.
Don't forget, that pointy haired boss may not be all that honest. Going down in flames for someone else's decisions is only deserved if you had knowledge and a say.
Augh.
The smart phone ringing prompted it.
I guess I asked because when I tried to get "formal" education, I was extremely disappointed. Perhaps it was due to the lack of money that I ended up in the school that I did. And so it became my experience that to learn much of anything, I'm on my own.
And where are the parents at?
As far as I can tell, "everything is a priority" in most cases. Maybe I haven't been out from under the rock long enough though.
And because of this tidbit, it will remain as it is. I have yet to see an 'educate the people' campaign that isn't dead on arrival.
You're right, I was not quoting you. I was quoting cb88... the parent post. It shows up under the correct thread for me. Maybe something's up with the site? Here is what he said:
What they also don't grasp is the downward spiral that will surely ensue after the layoffs. Not understanding the abstraction means you will not comprehend the consequences thereof. This is why we have such a huge problem with inefficient software. As per your example of sorting in a single line of code, at the very least, you need to understand the concept of identity. The one liner you write to sort a collection could delegate to a bubble sort. Great if that's what you need, but how do you decide on that if you don't know the theory? The 2 liner you provided for the print statement... again, different IO methods have different consequences, though in essence the program is complete, understand that your trivial example does not do anything useful. It isn't the useless, trivial examples that require understanding. Its the examples that require one to think through complicated criteria and constraints. The point is that you can only make brain dead programs if you cannot imbue the theory into your code. Garbage in -> garbage out.
"but then, using C++ makes me somewhat archaic" It doesn't make your archaic. Your personal attitude is another matter though. I have yet to see a language as powerful and as diverse as C++. From the simplicity of the C constructs all the way up to meta-programming magic. Most people gripe about the syntax, but notation is a very small part of it, and is the way it is for pragmatic reasons. Its what it makes your mind do that's so fascinating.
The numerals are arbitrary, the values are not. The system relies on the values, not how you'd write them down.
Have you ever met a (real) dev that was not self taught? Just curious. I haven't.