The strength and robustness of the linux system lies in the very fact that it _doesn't_ need to have a few huge money-making orginizations being the primary proponents. That linux is free and community supported and is STILL able to reach 40% of the server market is astonishing.
That Sun manages to make oodles of cash with high margin offerings and is still losing market share is a sign of its maturation and specialization. If you look at teh R&D effort within sun I would bet you that 90% of it is directed towards enterprise level scalability and not common desktop or workstation workloads. Recent comparisons have suggested that Solaris is severely trailing linux in terms of single/dual processor performance. I can imagine this margin only getting larger in the coming years.
Compaq could actually make MORE money per ipaq if they sold it without an OS.
Follow me here. They sell the ipaq without an OS. Bright idea occurs to them. Charge a NO-OS fee of 25% of the MS tax. Bingo. More money in the bank thanks to linux users who dont want to pay for software they wont use.
Got any other bright ideas?
"Maybe I am too principled, but I dont think I should pay for something I won't use"
-- stil stands.
Won't I have to pay the Microsoft tax? Maybe I am too principled, but I dont think I should pay for something I won't use.
Re:Finally Learning From The Open Source Community
on
Windows XP Embedded
·
· Score: 2, Flamebait
Why do you want to support microsoft's corperate policy of monopoly maintainence and slowed innovation. They've stated that the best way to control your business environment is to dictate the pace of innovation (both slower and faster).
I mean you seem like a nice guy, but you do realize that Microsoft want's to control software universe and be the gateway to your wallet, dont you? Do they really need your help? You seem like a bright guy.
People say you have to separate the company from the employees - that MS has really nice, bright employees. I think you can say that the employees who avidly support Microsoft's world-domination strategy (Ok, maybe the janitors in redmond dont quite grasp that point) should maybe be held responsable (ethically) for their complicity in it. I pray (wish, hope) that MS will fail in their global domination strategy. And I hope talented people dont further their evil ways.
Nope no backups. I'm pretty cavalier. I've been using the "new" kernel since 2.3.53, which went to 2.3.99, which went to 2.4.0preXX, which went to 2.4.0, which went to 2.4.16. I haven't lost important data once in that time. Er wait I did lose my ext2 / partition somewhere in there in 2.3.xx... Heh. cant win em all.
Dude, do you have a slacker job that pays $25k/year? I'll take it.
However, my point still stands. You had no idea the extent of the bug and promulgated false claims about it on slashdot. This is not very evil.
Oh, and it is "No big deal" for my desktop system. If you're running 2.4.15 on a mission critical machine you should be shot anyway. The bug was found less than 24 hours after the release. ANyone who uses Fresh release software on mission critical boxes should be shot. You should be shot for even thinking this might be a viable possibility. Silly you.
Ok your problem is easy. That happens with the _new_ VM introduced in 2.4.10, with the _old_ ext3 patch. So I am assuming you used 2.4.10 - 2.4.14, and you applied the ext3 patch. This is a harmless reporting bug. When the ext3 patch was merged into mainstream it was fixed. Use 2.4.16, it's probably the most stable 2.4 release ever[1] (except for/possibly/ a redhat kernel).
[1] 2.4.15 would have been the most stable/robust kernel execpt for that inode bug. Looking at the changelog for 2.4.16 one can see that the only real change was the inode bug, and one can make a safe prediction that 2.4.16 will turn out to be the most stable kernel in 2.4 series so far.
...but it couldn't unmount filesystems without destroying them...
Ok, that's just plain false. The worst that could happen is you get a few stale lock files left over (sometimes a bunch) that are undeleteable, and can only be erased with a fsck. Not a huge deal. The problem is that when you unmounted a filesystem, if there was data that still needed to be synced, it could get garbled. No big deal. Do an fsck, and everything is restored. No offense, but did you even bother to read about the bug?
I didn't say MS sucks. I dont think they suck. I just dont like them too much, and think there should be a viable alternative to Windows on the desktop. Dont you think there should be a viable alternative to windows on the desktop? Or are you so preoccupied with being a paranoid MS defender that you fail to realize the good this will bring about?
The point is to NOT read slashdot at level 0. If you come on slashdot to respond to level 0's, then I'll just roll my eyes at your hypocrisy.
Please, enhance the culture, dont get stuck in the mud and bring it down. And dont be a paraoind MS defender. 1) They dont need your help. and 2) it makes you look like a tool[1].
[1] proper use of tool. Most people use tool to refer to a lamer or some such person. The actual proper use is more literal. A "tool" is a mechanical device used by humans. A "tool" in the l33t sense is a person who acts as a mechanical device for a corperation or overlord, without thinking. For example, if I go into McDonalds and ask for a tall cup of water and the Minimum wage earning dork says "sorry I cant give you water in a large cup. you can have a kiddie cup of water, or buy $1 Evian water", then that person is a tool.
It's ugly. I wouldn't want alpha blended windows at all. It's of even questionable utility inside an OpenGL game, where alpha blending is practically free.
Yet more pointless eyecandy. I'm sure there are worthwhile applications of this, but I cant think of anything important right now.
Slashdot is your only forum for bringing this issue up? I'm sure you're such a lame admin that you'd explain your problem to me, in detail, on slashdot, before you would to the appropriate redhat mailing list or developer. Shame, really.
I'll state it again. Compare microsoft to redhat release kernels (2.4.9-2, 2.4.7-9) custom built and tested under the most strenuous conditions.. You haven't answered this point. Maybe you are too blindly pro microsoft to realize that one man (linus) releasing a kernel does not equal that of a corperation. You own the GPL'd kernel as much as linus does (he doesn't require assignment of copyright to him for submitted code and patches).
So I state again. Compare the redhat release kernel to microsoft. Maybe you dont want to. Maybe it will throw your whole world view into the shitter.
Awwwwww.. Poor microsoft. I'm crying. I really am. They are so deserving of our sympathy and fair treatment. I mean, look at how well they've treated us all in the past 10 years. Dont be fooled folks. Microsoft is doing VERY well without our brain-washed sympathy. Lets not feed into the marketing hype from redmond that says microsoft is embattled and they need our support cause they are down-and-out and they need to be cuddled. Give me a fucking break.
Microsoft is a business. They pretend they have feelings to affect people like you. How can anyone feel sorry for a company that has $35 billion dollars in the bank. (that's cash folks, not equity or stock. Cold hard green american dollars). Even if linux destroys microsoft's business (which I'm sure you're inherently worried about.. gasp!), Microsoft could buy up 100 other businesses, write down the inital capital loss and start making bucket loads again.
So please, the sky is _not_ falling, microsoft defenders. Stop pretending like everyone is out to get you. If you use windows, linux users dont hate you. If you like Microsoft Word, linux users aren't going beat down your door. If you feel left out of the linux party, you can join whenever you want, just remember to leave your whining, snivelling, righteous attitudes at the door, because we're all sick of it.
Ahhh, if only microsoft let the general public have access to weekly kernel builds and the sourcecode to come along with it.. You're living a fantasy if you think the two examples are in any way equal. What would be equal is the MS bug level, and say the Redhat 7.2 kernel bug level. You might be on to something there. Otherwise you're deluding yourself and (hopefully not) bringing others down with you into the mire.
but anyway, last I checked "make install" put bzImage into/boot/vmlinuz and System.map into/boot/System.map, and move your old vmlinuz and System.map to vmlinuz.old and System.map.old, then reran lilo.
Never used make bzlilo myself. Sounds like one of those features of the kernel you really shouldn't use, but some people do, and if you do use it you should really know what you're doing, but I guess that should be true of anyone compiling their own kernel.
Preemptability is just a feature that you can add to your kernel to make kernel threads preemptable (using the in-place SMP infrastructure).
Preemptability is not:
-an attempt to fix a bug in linux or make linux more stable
-a way to make Linux slightly more advanced than MacOS
-Something that is desperately needed
Preemptability is:
-A way to make processes that have long execution threads inside the kernel not take away from higher priority user-space threads (priority is not the same as niceness).
So PLEASE, lets stop this bandying about of "preemptability" when you know not of what you speak.
The author doesn't want you to just use his OS. He's building it for himself, not for you or anyone else. He wont accept code (except bug fixes) into the main OS. He will only accept driver submissions.
A Big Lock scales "OK" to 2 cpus. Put FreeBSD on a 4 cpu box and watch it become a complete waste of resources. That big kernel lock suddenly takes away 3 cpus instead of 1 (when the lock is hit). Linux should be fine grained enough to not hit that situation. Linux still has a Big Lock in one or two areas, but those are rarely executed, according to LKML luminaries.
Come on, what value is there in comparing OS development politics to the national political parties? It doesn't illuminate anything (the point of analogies one could say) and just serves to fixate a stereotype in the mind of the listener, or perpetuate a stereotype in the mind of the speaker.
Nothing to see here folks. Move on -- +5 be damned.
Slashdot Mirror
The strength and robustness of the linux system lies in the very fact that it _doesn't_ need to have a few huge money-making orginizations being the primary proponents. That linux is free and community supported and is STILL able to reach 40% of the server market is astonishing.
That Sun manages to make oodles of cash with high margin offerings and is still losing market share is a sign of its maturation and specialization. If you look at teh R&D effort within sun I would bet you that 90% of it is directed towards enterprise level scalability and not common desktop or workstation workloads. Recent comparisons have suggested that Solaris is severely trailing linux in terms of single/dual processor performance. I can imagine this margin only getting larger in the coming years.
Not quite.
Compaq could actually make MORE money per ipaq if they sold it without an OS.
Follow me here. They sell the ipaq without an OS. Bright idea occurs to them. Charge a NO-OS fee of 25% of the MS tax. Bingo. More money in the bank thanks to linux users who dont want to pay for software they wont use.
Got any other bright ideas?
"Maybe I am too principled, but I dont think I should pay for something I won't use"
-- stil stands.
Why should I buy an Ipaq?
Won't I have to pay the Microsoft tax? Maybe I am too principled, but I dont think I should pay for something I won't use.
Why do you want to support microsoft's corperate policy of monopoly maintainence and slowed innovation. They've stated that the best way to control your business environment is to dictate the pace of innovation (both slower and faster).
I mean you seem like a nice guy, but you do realize that Microsoft want's to control software universe and be the gateway to your wallet, dont you? Do they really need your help? You seem like a bright guy.
People say you have to separate the company from the employees - that MS has really nice, bright employees. I think you can say that the employees who avidly support Microsoft's world-domination strategy (Ok, maybe the janitors in redmond dont quite grasp that point) should maybe be held responsable (ethically) for their complicity in it. I pray (wish, hope) that MS will fail in their global domination strategy. And I hope talented people dont further their evil ways.
Nope no backups. I'm pretty cavalier. I've been using the "new" kernel since 2.3.53, which went to 2.3.99, which went to 2.4.0preXX, which went to 2.4.0, which went to 2.4.16. I haven't lost important data once in that time. Er wait I did lose my ext2 / partition somewhere in there in 2.3.xx... Heh. cant win em all.
Dude, do you have a slacker job that pays $25k/year? I'll take it.
However, my point still stands. You had no idea the extent of the bug and promulgated false claims about it on slashdot. This is not very evil.
Oh, and it is "No big deal" for my desktop system. If you're running 2.4.15 on a mission critical machine you should be shot anyway. The bug was found less than 24 hours after the release. ANyone who uses Fresh release software on mission critical boxes should be shot. You should be shot for even thinking this might be a viable possibility. Silly you.
Not likely. The changes from 2.4.15->2.4.16 were basicly the inode bug, and a driver fix for 8139too.
Ok your problem is easy. That happens with the _new_ VM introduced in 2.4.10, with the _old_ ext3 patch. So I am assuming you used 2.4.10 - 2.4.14, and you applied the ext3 patch. This is a harmless reporting bug. When the ext3 patch was merged into mainstream it was fixed. Use 2.4.16, it's probably the most stable 2.4 release ever[1] (except for /possibly/ a redhat kernel).
[1] 2.4.15 would have been the most stable/robust kernel execpt for that inode bug. Looking at the changelog for 2.4.16 one can see that the only real change was the inode bug, and one can make a safe prediction that 2.4.16 will turn out to be the most stable kernel in 2.4 series so far.
...but it couldn't unmount filesystems without destroying them...
Ok, that's just plain false. The worst that could happen is you get a few stale lock files left over (sometimes a bunch) that are undeleteable, and can only be erased with a fsck. Not a huge deal. The problem is that when you unmounted a filesystem, if there was data that still needed to be synced, it could get garbled. No big deal. Do an fsck, and everything is restored. No offense, but did you even bother to read about the bug?
I didn't say MS sucks. I dont think they suck. I just dont like them too much, and think there should be a viable alternative to Windows on the desktop. Dont you think there should be a viable alternative to windows on the desktop? Or are you so preoccupied with being a paranoid MS defender that you fail to realize the good this will bring about?
I bet that's what Microsoft would have you beleive. Throw in a bit of sickness or antisocial behavior and you'll have the redmond party line.
The point is to NOT read slashdot at level 0. If you come on slashdot to respond to level 0's, then I'll just roll my eyes at your hypocrisy.
Please, enhance the culture, dont get stuck in the mud and bring it down. And dont be a paraoind MS defender. 1) They dont need your help. and 2) it makes you look like a tool[1].
[1] proper use of tool. Most people use tool to refer to a lamer or some such person. The actual proper use is more literal. A "tool" is a mechanical device used by humans. A "tool" in the l33t sense is a person who acts as a mechanical device for a corperation or overlord, without thinking. For example, if I go into McDonalds and ask for a tall cup of water and the Minimum wage earning dork says "sorry I cant give you water in a large cup. you can have a kiddie cup of water, or buy $1 Evian water", then that person is a tool.
It's ugly. I wouldn't want alpha blended windows at all. It's of even questionable utility inside an OpenGL game, where alpha blending is practically free.
Yet more pointless eyecandy. I'm sure there are worthwhile applications of this, but I cant think of anything important right now.
Hrm. sounds like you're pretty incompotent to me.
Slashdot is your only forum for bringing this issue up? I'm sure you're such a lame admin that you'd explain your problem to me, in detail, on slashdot, before you would to the appropriate redhat mailing list or developer. Shame, really.
I'll state it again. Compare microsoft to redhat release kernels (2.4.9-2, 2.4.7-9) custom built and tested under the most strenuous conditions.. You haven't answered this point. Maybe you are too blindly pro microsoft to realize that one man (linus) releasing a kernel does not equal that of a corperation. You own the GPL'd kernel as much as linus does (he doesn't require assignment of copyright to him for submitted code and patches).
So I state again. Compare the redhat release kernel to microsoft. Maybe you dont want to. Maybe it will throw your whole world view into the shitter.
Awwwwww.. Poor microsoft. I'm crying. I really am. They are so deserving of our sympathy and fair treatment. I mean, look at how well they've treated us all in the past 10 years. Dont be fooled folks. Microsoft is doing VERY well without our brain-washed sympathy. Lets not feed into the marketing hype from redmond that says microsoft is embattled and they need our support cause they are down-and-out and they need to be cuddled. Give me a fucking break.
Microsoft is a business. They pretend they have feelings to affect people like you. How can anyone feel sorry for a company that has $35 billion dollars in the bank. (that's cash folks, not equity or stock. Cold hard green american dollars). Even if linux destroys microsoft's business (which I'm sure you're inherently worried about.. gasp!), Microsoft could buy up 100 other businesses, write down the inital capital loss and start making bucket loads again.
So please, the sky is _not_ falling, microsoft defenders. Stop pretending like everyone is out to get you. If you use windows, linux users dont hate you. If you like Microsoft Word, linux users aren't going beat down your door. If you feel left out of the linux party, you can join whenever you want, just remember to leave your whining, snivelling, righteous attitudes at the door, because we're all sick of it.
Ahhh, if only microsoft let the general public have access to weekly kernel builds and the sourcecode to come along with it.. You're living a fantasy if you think the two examples are in any way equal. What would be equal is the MS bug level, and say the Redhat 7.2 kernel bug level. You might be on to something there. Otherwise you're deluding yourself and (hopefully not) bringing others down with you into the mire.
really, I am.
/boot/vmlinuz and System.map into /boot/System.map, and move your old vmlinuz and System.map to vmlinuz.old and System.map.old, then reran lilo.
but anyway, last I checked "make install" put bzImage into
Never used make bzlilo myself. Sounds like one of those features of the kernel you really shouldn't use, but some people do, and if you do use it you should really know what you're doing, but I guess that should be true of anyone compiling their own kernel.
Preemptability is just a feature that you can add to your kernel to make kernel threads preemptable (using the in-place SMP infrastructure).
Preemptability is not:
-an attempt to fix a bug in linux or make linux more stable
-a way to make Linux slightly more advanced than MacOS
-Something that is desperately needed
Preemptability is:
-A way to make processes that have long execution threads inside the kernel not take away from higher priority user-space threads (priority is not the same as niceness).
So PLEASE, lets stop this bandying about of "preemptability" when you know not of what you speak.
Yes I know this. You couldn't detect the sarcasm?
Just look at the kernel name, for 2.4.15
You'd think it would be 2.4.15, consistent with all other kernels.
but NoooOOooo...
he has to name it:
2.4.15-greased-turkey
The author doesn't want you to just use his OS. He's building it for himself, not for you or anyone else. He wont accept code (except bug fixes) into the main OS. He will only accept driver submissions.
A Big Lock scales "OK" to 2 cpus. Put FreeBSD on a 4 cpu box and watch it become a complete waste of resources. That big kernel lock suddenly takes away 3 cpus instead of 1 (when the lock is hit). Linux should be fine grained enough to not hit that situation. Linux still has a Big Lock in one or two areas, but those are rarely executed, according to LKML luminaries.
Come on, what value is there in comparing OS development politics to the national political parties? It doesn't illuminate anything (the point of analogies one could say) and just serves to fixate a stereotype in the mind of the listener, or perpetuate a stereotype in the mind of the speaker.
Nothing to see here folks. Move on -- +5 be damned.