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Sharp Ships New PDA Running Linux 2.4
cbowland writes: "Sharp is now shipping the SL-5000D Zaurus PDA with a Linux 2.4 kernel, embedded PalmTop, Personal Java, and QT. Priced at $399 for developers only. Their plan is to get some apps created before marketing it to the public. Check it out" I wonder if the USB port on the docking station would let these work with the Happy Hacker keyboard ...
Docking station for a PDA?!
Makes me wish I was a developer for this.*
:P )
These look really sweet.
*(Ok, so I wish that I just had a job....
I like you, Stuart. You're not like everyone else, here, at Slashdot.
It seems like most programs for other handhelds are made by private individuals, rather than actual software houses. I wonder what the requirements for being a developer are...
Username taken, please choose another one.
Nokia had a cell phone (8890?) on the market with a sliding front face. It didn't last very long before breaking. Nokia no longer makes/sells that phone. It left the market in about a year.
Hopefully this device has a better mechanism than that.
what i need to know:
can we get quake3:arena up and running on it?
i need a handheld Q3.
"Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
They're either a bloated calculator or a stripped-down laptop, depending on your viewpoint.
Ok now, this is not a flame, but is using a 'recent' 2.4 kernel a so good idea?
I think PDAs should choose an older kernel, which might be more stable.
-J
Alexis 'jeriqo' BRET
I saw one at Comdex, and it is one sweet little device. The screen is bright and clear, it doesnt weigh much and it's as fast as any handheld out there. Even the java runs fast on it =P
Only problem, I couldnt get much outta the people running the booth, they seemed pretty clueless...oh well.
Guess Ill hafta wait till they come out on the market *sigh*
Oh btw, the sliding keyboard mechanism on it is relatively well implemented, but it doesnt work well when its on the cradle (only a minor complaint) I do so want one of these things =J
-----------
Fire's Out ~~X
(For the humour impared, I'm not trying to be a troll. Thank you, and now your regularly scheduled saracsm.)
I think we ought to use the 1.0 series of kernels. That way we can only have a 386 in there with an FPU co-processor, and we -know- how stable the 1.0 series of kernels are. We have it all simplistic and it allows for us to use something that has been tried-and-true. We can't be having those buggy 2.4 kernels in there; oh no, we gotta have something that's Bug Free(TM)!
Karma whorin' since 1999
What, did you steal that from Carolyn Menial?
The Linux desktop's been available for years, and you still can't get most decent apps
It seems to me that you are one of those persons that define descent apps with MS Word. In that case no, there is no such thing on the Linux desktop. And if it was noone would run it because it sucks.
You're probably right with the choice of an older kernel, but only the 2.4 kernel supports USB.
That may be why they used it.
I went through the order section and saw no notice about "developers only". Where did this information come from?
If it is for "developers" only, are the expecting people to code apps for this thing and provide them for FREE? I can see if a developer was given one free of charge and they wrote an app or two for a trade, but come on..
Price tag is a little high for me right now, but it would make a nice replacement for my Agenda :)
Two things surprice me though.
1) why didn't they include more memory? This thing is set up to do some very cool things regarding multimedia, but videos/sound suck up space... Memory has to have dropped enough since I got my Agenda, hasn't it? Guess this is offset a little by the ability to drop Flash cards in, but they're dang expensive..
2) What's that little Serial/USB (via the Docking Station) port comment? Does that mean that I wouldn't have USB when I wasn't docked. That would kinda suck, but it's probably a power consumption issue. Wonder how long that battery runs a color screen?
Greg
I would imagine that for most developers, personal (shareware) or commercial houses, they go where the user base is. I can understand being interested in developing a new handheld, but I think that most developers are interested in marketing to where there are the most users: either PalmOS or WinCE. I would imagine that is where 95% of PDA users reside, so I can't imagine anyone devoting -THAT- much time/effort/resources to a PDA that has no user base.
I certainly wouldn't put my time into developing for a non-existant userbase. Who knows if this will even make it to market?
Just my thoughts.
I ordered one of these a month ago. Here are a few links that you might be interested in:
8 26 164,00.html
t ml
4
Zdnet Commentary:
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2
Developer's Review on LinuxDevices:
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5326761307.h
Developer's FAQ:
http://tank.dyndns.org/index.php?op=showfaq&id=
From the developer forums, the general impression is that this is on a tiny budget, but the people that are involved a very dedicated (Hi, Mitchy!). I would post the link to the developer forums but the server would crash. From the forums, the top issues are:
1) Upgrade memory to 64MB (from 32). I am in favor of this, though other developers make the point that Linux should not need as much memory as PocketPC, also this increases the cost. I would add more ROM (up to 32MB), or at least offer a high-end model with more memory.
2) No speaker like PocketPC (just a buzzer). You have to listen to MP3's with headphone jack. I don't think this is important, but others want a IPAQ like speaker. There's also no Sound DSP.
3) Dependence on embedded QT license. There is some concern about paying QT for your applications, but on the Sharp forums Sharp says that they are working with QT for low-cost commercial QT licensing.
4) SD (Secure Digital) support, Bluetooth support.
I think these are both really needed to make this successful.
One other issue is that I would like to the Sharp license the interface from the IPAQ or HandSpring (Springboard), so the Zaurus can leverage the external devices for those devices.
Any opionions from any other developers?
I think an iPaq running Familiar is a better choice for developers and vertical applications (probably the primary market of Linux handhelds).
With the new bootloader, installing Linux on an iPaq should be a breeze, too (no more serial downloads). And you get a full, standard Linux/X11 environment. Compaq even set up some 200MHz ARMs boards as development servers on the web.
There was a preview of this PDA a while back on Infosync. There was also a /. story associated with those pics.
Short question :
Can a Registered Developper Port something else than Linux to it ?
The PDA actually looks sexy on the hardware side, not on the software side (A friend of mine bought a Linux-iPaq from Lisa and it appears to be quite slow, lacks responsiveness and also burns its batteries in about one hour).
I think some special projects like RiscOS would be more adequate.
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Eww. Does anyone else wish they'd make a version of the Happy Hacking normal or Lite with USB? Those recessed cursor keys really turn me off buying the Lite 2.
For only $99 at Fry's you can pick up an Agenda (now defunct) that runs linux (2.4 I believe). There is active developing going on, and you can't beat the price!! It'll save ya about $300!
Try these sites for info:
Agenda Software Repository:
http://supermegamulti.com/agenda/
Agenda Unofficial FAQ:
http://www.lardcave.net/agenda/agenda-faq.html
I wonder if it could be connected to a keyboard, monitor, or mobile phone...
Any suggestions on how to get one from Europe (more specifically from Finland) if you don't have a credit card?
Besides the fact that the US web site http://www.sharp-usa.com when viewed with K-Meleon displayed a page indicating to upgrade to Internet Explorer 4 or Netscape 4, I was quite unable to find a lot of info.
:)
A few web searches took me through the UK web site (they have a pdf spec sheet) to the developer's web site (why didn't I think of it in the first place ?!).
Both the Linux spec and Java are interesting. It runs PersonalJava 1.2 with the Truffle AWT L&F. On the Linux part, it implements Embedix - the 2.4 kernel. I find very interesting it supports BusyBox + some additional commands.
"It provides minimal replacements for most of the utilities you usually find in fileutils, shellutils, findutils, textutils, grep, gzip, tar, etc. In addition, by using the network or a Compact Flash card, useful Linux tools can be used."
Also, I find very comforting that on the interface part we got Qt/Embedded which is quite cool.
To sum it up... I'm a developer looking for a PDA. $400 is pricey, but the Zaurus is not a gadget it's a real tool. I hope I'll find the funds to get one for Xmas
philipx
__________
Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace!
Operating System
Linux(TM) 2.4 (Embeddix(TM)), QT(TM) Embedded PalmTop, Personal Java(TM)
eh? since when is Linux a TM?
in the case of my Palm VX.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
I still think that the Yopy will be better. .. before a good jump :)
So, it's probably a good time to wait and see
I wonder if I con use this as an X terminal. Would be neat to have it as a main terminal for my Origin. ;-)
Zdnet links.
6 164,00.html
9 038,00.html
Correct Zdnet Link (Commentary from Guy Kewney):
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,282
Another one:
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,281
1)No keyboard like Sharp
2)Can't swap out the battery
Other than that, I agree with you.
I think this litle toy is gona change things. If you compare with some early linux pda:s like Agenda V3 this litle toy will destroy cred. win-ce based pda:s.
NICE!!!
Why should I buy an Ipaq?
Won't I have to pay the Microsoft tax? Maybe I am too principled, but I dont think I should pay for something I won't use.
I hope the first thing a developer gets working on this is the 802.11 CF card. The PDA has a CF slot and runs kernel 2.4 so hopefully with a little tweaking and a some help from this project we'll have a wireless internet PDA running linux soon. It's all I want to for Christmas.
Check out the hi res images at: http://www.sharp.co.uk/pda/images.htm This baby has just made it to the very top of my christmas list....:)
I have myself play a bit with such embedded devices "for developpers" from other compagnies than Sharp and was rather disapointed by a partial only support of linux kernel.
:)
By example, the support of PCMCIA board was usually not working correctly (just crashing the whole box when you start with something plugged in) or not supporting much devices (like been limited to IDE-raw only devices).
I will be very interested on experience of people who buy this device, about the quality of the kernel modules support, more especially of connection modules (USB, PCMCIA, and so on). And not only booting the kernel and the module, but *really* doing something usefull with it (booting is good, stand stable a some minutes is better)...
If USB or PCMCIA are correctly supported, it will be cool to develop (me ?) a Linux burning engine that fits the embedded engine !
David Burg, Ahead Software AG
To me, a Palm without synching capabilities isn't worth much. Most importantly, I need to able to sync my contacts, calendar, notes, etc., with my desktop. If I should be a bit demanding, I would say that I need to sync with Outlook at work and with KDE at home.
From the FAQ:
The syncronization software for the PDA doesn't support Linux?
This is correct. Both QT Center (currently) and IntelliSync only run under Windows.
Haavard Noord, CEO of Troll Tech has stated that there will be a Linux version of the Palmtop Center software, but are currently working out various technical issues, so it might not ship with the consumer release of the Zaurus.
Anybody knows more about this? I mean, syncing with ex. KDE.
As this is very important to developing the most important applications on any system... GAMES!!!!
Note to self: No more arguing with the faithful.
Yeah, I want it to have 128 MB of memory, a fire wire port and a 5GB hard drive like the iPod.
It would be so sweet to load this baby up with about 6 hours worth of DVIX movies and 40 hours worth of mp3's and be entertained on long trips.
Sure, it would be an $800 dollar device then, but I would buy it. Especially if it had a full sized folding keyboard.
The device is a little expensive (US$400), and you can't sign up to get one without becoming a developer (here), but if you're into Linux, Qt, and/or Java, it could very well be worth it
And if you're not hardcore enough to get the Developer version, the consumer version should be available early next year, and it makes a great PDA regardless.
Mine will be here Wednesday... I can't wait!
libertarianswag.com
Its to Big and Bulky
I mean if you whipped that out in a crowd they migh shoot you thinking you were going to launch the missiles.
I'm still working on a clever footer.
A pretty sweet machine, but what I'd like to see is to have it horizontal instead of vertical. That way they could probably fit in a bit larger qwerty keyboard. And I'd think the horizontal display is in general more useful, because most text is horizontal too.
Given that the most common use I've associated with Linux has been use on a server of some variety, due to its stability and security, I can't help wondering what makes it a good OS for a PDA. Linux hasn't made a big impact on home computers, largely due to the fact that it isn't as user friendly as might be. Isn't the idea of an OS for a PDA that it be very easy to use and very convenient for the uneducated user?
Or does Linux fit in better with PDA's than I'd naturally assume?
What's in a Sig?
Getting a Z-Com 802.11b CF card working with my Zaurus was thde first thing I did. You can find my HOWTO on the dev2dev forum at http://developer.sharpsec.com (free reg req.) I am using the unit day in and day out as my PDA (web, contacts, email, addressbook, whatever) as well as using the underlying *nix functionality for stuff like systems and network support when I am moving around the office or, in fact, sitting at the pub around the corner having a pint. This device is out-of-this-world-cool and I suggest that every Network/Sys Admin should put it on their Christmas gift list. Having used it for a couple of weeks and watched the incredible pace at which software is ported to it I have to say that it is everything that I need as an IT professional in a PDA right now and it is only going to get better. I seriously doubt that PDA's running anything but Linux will have any market share in twelve months,there is simply no way Palm or embedded Windows can keep up with this thing. End users will appreciate the stability, speed and vast amount of software, while the I.T. people will appreciate the awesome flexibility and functionality. walking around right now with a linux PDA that is a significantly higher spec than my first Linux desktop is a thrill and having it connected most of the time to the 'net at 11mb/s is the icing on the cake.
Until I can hook the agenda to a wireless network it is nothing more than a piece of desk junk.
Got Code?
Lineo is based on Linux kernel 2.2.13. Linux is GPL licensed, and as such, all commercial derivative works must include source code. Where is the source code to Lineo?
What the hell does leverage mean, anyways? Absolutely nothing! It's a meaningless, generic verb that could mean anything, thanks!
It's flashable. Stick a 32M CF memory module with a new copy of the OS, and reboot with B and C keys pressed, and it copies the OS from the CF into the onboard flash. So OS updates of any kind are no problem.
-russ
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
No it isn't too bulky. It is actually smaller than you might think. It fits nicely in my pocket, and is much lighter than you might think. The keyboard is also much better than you might think. Very good feedback from the small buttons. Excellent hardware!
Yeah, sure it sucks, unlike the stellar and amazing 'StarOffice.' And who needs games or applications for anything other than programming and the internet? I mean, that's all there is in life, right? Who would need productivity apps, drafting apps, engineering apps, a decent drawing application, or anything else for that matter? Why, who wouldn't jump at the chance to adopt a platform where you need to write most of your applications from scratch because they don't exist or they totally suck (as is the case with OFFICE type apps)?
The machine runs PersonalJava 1.2 with all the optional packages included! This basically comes down to JDK 1.1.8 with some extra security stuff from JDK 1.2. The Collections package is also included, so it is a sort of hybrid JDK 1.1 and 1.2 environment. This means that you have JDBC, RMI and whatnot to play around with!
I haven't started programming for it yet, but I was really happy with what Java support it has.
handspring...From the Sharp Product Info Page:
2.9"W x 5.4"H x 7"D
7 inches, are you serious? Can't you just see all the "Is that a Sharp Zaurus SL-5000D in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?" jokes coming?
I wonder if the Sharp PDA comes with source code to its Linux operating system, and to what extent.
Sounds like the perfect device... there has been no good pda scince the newton. I'd want one if it does gsm, pda, and GPS!!!
Excuse my spelling, but I still have a hangover!
did you write to webmaster@sharp-usa.com about it? unless those of us that use other broswers actually talk to the uninformed people who do this, rather than bitch about it on slashdot, it will never go away.
You mean .7 inches; The dimensions are: 2.9"W x 5.4"D x .7"H.
You're gonna ball men?
Sharp's page--there is no decimal point, and now you're trying to ruin my humor as well.
The Yopy is due out soon (Realize that the Sharp PDA available now isn't much different than the developer release of the Yopy- it's still not a "real" PDA in the same sense as the Agenda...) and the Agenda is already out.
You're supposed to use Fltk to develop apps for either of those, even though they use completely differing GUI engines (Yopy- W, Agenda- MicroWindows)- which means that one app written for the Yopy is liable to work decently enough without major changes on the Agenda (memory permitting...) or an iPaq running Familiar, Similar, Pixil, or some other MicroWindows or X based PDA distribution. The same cannot be said for a Qt/E based PDA. You have either the Sharp PDA or an iPaq in which someone has installed Qt/E on it.
Linux PDAs aren't vapor like you contend- just not pervasive like Windows CE devices or Palm devices.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
The story says it comes with one of the 2.4 kernel series. I'm just wanting to know if they shipped 2.4.11 or 2.4.15.
I used to have a Sharp Zaurus which I loved. That was way back before Palm's became popular. It had, most importantly, a built in text editor and keyboard (similar to the SL5000) that I used to write code. It also connected to my home machine's serial port to transfer files and had an optional modem available (which was standard on the higher-up model).
Unfortunately, an angry companion threw it into the wall one-too-many times until in finally broke beyond use. Well, I figured it was safe to not spend another $499 until I could use it safely.
Now, these Palm-like devices are popular (and the conpanion is gone), but with rediculous writing recognition. I've been spoiled by real typing and the text editor of the old Sharp have not been able to buy one--until now.
So, I'm getting one when/if they are released in standard form.
<i> Yeah, sure it sucks, unlike the stellar and amazing 'StarOffice.'</i>
StarOffice r00lz you Penis Wrinkle.. now shut the FUCK UP!
My experience of PJava is that it wouldn't run our 1.1.8 application (which worked fine on the desktop) - thread problem.
Java2 is almost at version 1.4, so you're cutting yourself off from a whole new set of core APIs, not to mention Swing.
My advice to anyone wanting to run Java on a PDA would be to wait 6-12 months and then install the Java 2 STANDARD Edition JRE.
You could just about fit the JRE into a 32MB flash ROM alongside linux, with little space left over.
Wait for PDAs with 64MB flash rom. It may be a while before WINCE devices need the extra 32MB. However, how much does the microsoft charge on each PDA? Remove M$ from the equation and I'll have a larger flash rom!
Better still, if Apple can create the iPOD with a 5MB hard disk it's only a matter of time before these a standard for PDAs.
In my opinion J2ME will become only be relevant on smaller devices. PDAs will have sufficient power to run real Java!
Think about it. With your dimensions it would be roughly the size of a medium-sized brick. It must be a mistake. The correct dimensions can be found at http://more.sbc.co.jp/slj/doc/pdf/sheet_spec.pdf
From the site: Linux(TM)
Linux is trademarked? By whom?
I think /. should post this story about 15 more times, since 20 is a nice even number.
i heard of this being out quite some time ago, and i think it may have been mentioned on /.
Interestingly this is Sharps first foray into the European and US PDA markets, even though they are market leaders in the Japanese PDA sector. Sharps "Zaurus" PDA account for 70% of japanes sales, while Palm and WinCE/PocketPC platforms are much less popular than they are here.
Can Sharp come from nowhere, and gain significant market penetration?