Slashdot Mirror
Windows XP Embedded
Embedded Geek writes: "Embedded Systems Programming has a piece
about Microsoft organizing its employees to advocate their embedded products in online newsgroups (part of "a new culture at Microsoft" making "an effort to shed the company's reputation as an incommunicative giant.") This is coordinated with Microsoft's launch of Windows XP Embedded at their Embedded Developers' Conference (the countdown clock on their homepage says Wednesday but the launch party is Thursday)." News.com notes that this will be used in slot machines and ATMs. Insert obligatory free-money joke.
In a S/390?
This space left intentionally blank.
I though that Windows CE was an experience bad enough to avoid them to restart that kind of experience .. but you how they are , everywhere :)
Where smallness, understandability, low power consumption, and bullet-proof reliability are the key factors. I don't know who would put XP in a critical device. I don't know who would put Linux in one either, for that sake. "Embedded" in the Microsoft sense must mean "PDAs and museum kiosks" and such, and not the traditional embedded market.
To ensure that the developers truly address the users' issues, Microsoft has even assigned its own people to watch the news groups as spectators and look for any questions that go unanswered. If issues are left unresolved, the "spectators" prod the developers to respond.
Wow, working for them must be just like a non-stop party. "You vill reply to ziss NOW!"
that already is running lots of ATM's out there. Do you ever see a BSOD on a cashpoint - I haven't?
Given the increase in complexity and code size its going to be interesting to see how it goes into devices.
Wow. It turns out you only need 512 MB RAM, 1 gig of storage and a 900MHz CPU on your embedded device to run this.
Wait a minute...
Knunov
Why do users with IDs under 100,000 or over 700,000 usually have the most worthwhile comments?
The same reason that people use Windows CE: because it's Microsoft, it's supported (in theory), and someone in their organization told them to). And as freaky as it may seem, some people might actually ENJOY using Windows CE. (I know I'm not one of them, but I'm sure it happens. :) )
Developers !!! Developers !!!
Developers !!! Developers !!!
ehehehehhh
Embedded means small and fast, both of which cannot be done with Windows CE,Embedded NT, Embedded XP.
This is why 60% of all embedded systems are DOS and then Linux (The linux side is growing fast.... and I mean really fast) and then specalized.
If Microsoft can demonstrate a single floppy version of XP that needs only 4 meg of ram or less to run and leave room for my app then I'll take them serious.
Until then Microsoft products are not looked at as a serious alternative or solution, they are too expensive to impliment in the hardware requirements.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
A company is getting their employees to promote their products? What is next? Renting out TV air time for, say, 30 seconds or so, to showcase that product...maybe with some background music? Perhaps Madonna will do?
It's not just that this isn't "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters"...it's not even NEWS!
Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?
Does that include slashdot?
Guess we shall see who the real microsoft plants are in slashdot by the responses to this article... :)
(I remember the good ole days when you never heard a pro-microsoft rant on slashdot... :)
That perception, Microsoft says, is precisely why everyone on the development team of its Talisker embedded operating system now logs hours every week, chatting about the OS in news groups, checking out "bug reports" on a dedicated Web site and meeting with users face-to-face at "plugfests," where they discuss Talisker programming experiences.
Congrats to Microsoft for inventing web based bug tracking. Truly this is a great day for software.
Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
"this will be used in slot machines and ATMs"
So a Microsoft product is going to be responsible for a machine that takes a whole bunch of money. Who else is a little nervous about all of this?
sin(6cos(r)+5A)
It seems to me that microsoft tries to get everyone to put thier logo on everything. So will the offending slot machines and ATMs have the M$ logo? If so that would practically be inviting people to get free money.
Seems like a good solution to me.
While I was at MSFT over the summer, a friend at work asked me why Open Source projects had such a community around them no matter how small they were while it seemed harder for MSFT products to build a community around them (as opposed to users which they had plenty of). He mistakenly assumed that the availability of source code was what built the community which from my minor participation in a number of Open Source projects was incorrect.
The main reason users tend to form a community around Open Source projects is that there is direct communication between the users of the product and the developers of the product without the layer of bullshit introduced by marketing and management. If I post to the dbXML, Scoop or JDEE mailing list, I know I'll get at least one response from an actual developer of the product who will make a solid attempt to solve my problem as opposed to paying umpteen dollars to be put on hold by some pimply faced teenager who probably couldn't code his way out of a paper bag.
While at MSFT I planned to evangelize such a user-centric view of interaction but never got around to doing it on as large a scale as I liked. I did however try my best to make sure that as many questions to the newsgroup of our product were answered by someone at MSFT, if not me then someone whom I felt could answer the question. It looks that finally some like minded people are springing up in other parts of MSFT.
So you have to have a passport account before you put a quarter in? Or will the Jackpot be a system malfunction?
This SIG pulled due to lack of funding. (This damn war is costing too much!)
Given M$ ability to create bloatware I wonder what their small, light-weight, embedded XP systems look like? Hmm... a Pentium IV with 256M of RAM?
eXtra Puddin...
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
It's just that we don't identify ourselves by our names. Most of us have always been like me: when we comment, we acknowledge our association with MS, but we don't give out any identifying information. I pass on the commentary that I pick up here to my product group. Frankly, I think that the Pocket PC is stronger for it.
There are two classes of reasons that we don't use our real names. First, we as individuals don't want to get spammed any more than we already do. Individuals from MS have been targeted and stalked in the past; none of us wants to be the victim of some kook. Second, the company has a right to manage its own messages. Sometimes, obviously, that's a bad thing; our quiet lets the company get away with lying. Usually, though, there are a number of of people who have the right to know before the public does. (Our partners, for instance, may need to adjust their strategies in response to changes that we make along the way in our own. There's nothing so humiliating as not knowing some key point about a change, and having some reporter tell you that he just read all about it in a newsgroup.) We need to protect that orderly flow of information.
Then go with QNX or something. It's light and designed from the ground up for embedded systems; not a scaled down behemoth squeezed into another market. Every OS has it's place. Windows just isn't a good idea for an embedded system (though it may do it's job adequately).
Now I know this probably won't happen..but the mention of ATM got my attention.
Wouldn't the use of and embeded version of XP, which will be used for authentication and disbursement of monies, be an incentive for MS to get people and banks to use it's Passport service for authentication/verification etc?
Think about it. They want to get spending data etc, so this would be the perfect opportunity. Now I'm not bashing MS for making an embeded version of XP.
We all know CE wasn't the best...but still are making money out of it and they can most likely capitalize on XP's new features.
Personally I'd stick w/ whatever was already out there for the banking systems...I trust them more than I do MS.
What's linux?
QNX's outdated monolithic kernel cannot compare with the colorForth-based microkernel architecture used in embedded XP.
QNX might have more marketing dollars than Microsoft, but the better product will win eventually.
...as historically, slot machines have often been found to be controlled by criminal organizations. After they were affirmed guilty by the appeals court, MS realized that slot machine control was a natural extension of their business plan.
Nice ColorForth reset, d00d!
Here's the link. In this article, Microsoft says that it ties in nicely with the .NET vision. .NET today.
I've a new slogan for Microsoft. : Everything is
Great, we have to call the fuckers to activate our money? "You have added money to your account, please call Microsoft at 1-888-MS-OWNS-U to reactivate it. Remember, if you modify your account too often, we will disable your account."
So I'll be able to sit at home from my linux box and make these things spit out cash?
Everyone knows rebooting a windows machine removes any password protections etc[unless you do this in the bios].
What happens when I hit the million dollar jackpot and get a Fatal Error because winblows can't keep up with the math?
Get your Unix fortune now!
At least five times a week, I see some sort of windows based kiosk type device screwing up.
Recently:
The information terminals at MCI Center (they have never worked properly, to my knowledge- they are always off, talkatively crashed, or frozen.)
Newer Allfirst ATMs (which all use Windows 2000.)
The terminals at the Baltimore Convention Center (the OS keeps forgetting it has a touchscreen, oops.)
If I know what's running on something, that generally means I've seen it crash! The only Linux-based device I saw having problems was a group of web terminals at a New Jersey Turnpike rest area. But they were in a pretty deplorable state from all points, and those were just glorified PCs anyway (one was reporting a keyboard failure at the BIOS, no surprise since it seemed that someone had heavily worked it over with an ice pick)
What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey
Everyone knows that whenever you install Windows on a machine you are already gambling with your reliability. Putting it on slot machines is a natural!
--- -- - -
Give me LIBERTY, or give me a check.
QNX might have more marketing dollars than Microsoft, but the better product will win eventually.
wtf?
This is what users have been screaming for on their desktops. Food for thought.
So, like, how does this XP embedded fit into an overall strategy that has seen WinCE and even NT embedded?
This seems to be one of those corporate gaffes.
Remember 1994 and Java?
"What a great programming language - I know! - let's tie it in as Web client!"
Along the same lines 2001:
"I know! This .NET is such a great thing we'll shove into those hot new "embedded devices" everyone is talking about!"
<forehead wrinkles>
"Provided by the management for your protection."
There are plenty of people who came into computing from a desktop PC background, have never known anything but Microsoft, and thus always choose the Microsoft solution for every project they work on. They've never known anything better, and in fact are unable to evaluate "better" in any terms other than the ones Microsoft has supplied. I work with a number of these people. Pity me :)
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/13046.html : August 23,2001: "Utah attorney general Mark Shurtleff says that at least two of the more than 400 letters his office has received in support of Bill Gates' Microsoft were from people who had died.
/. report of this story, but searching /. on "Microsoft" and "phony" brought up too damn many references.]
Microsoft Corporation (Nasdaq: MSFT), in its quest to sway states' attorneys general into settling antitrust charges still filed against it, has apparently orchestrated what was originally thought to be a grassroots letter-writing campaign in support of the company, the Los Angeles Times has reported."
Methinks they doth communicate too much.
[I'd rather have linked to the
-Styopa
[RANT]
the last thing we need is a slowr cash machine with pretty colors.
my bank just replaced all their old, green screen, keypad operated cash machines with new, color touch screen cash machines.
guess what. it takes twice as long to get cash from the new machine.
guess what. visually impaired people can't use the new machines, because there is no brail facility.
sure they are pretty.
I don't want pretty in a cash machine, I WANT CASH!
I don't want slow in a cash machine, I WANT FAST!
now, on top of slow color touchscreens, they are going to add winXP???
it will take 3 days and an air conditioned 8Ghz pentium4 to get my $20, when 30 seconds and a z80 used to be sufficient.
[/RANT]
The difference between Theory and Practice is greater in Practice than in Theory.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
How long until Sircam starts transfering money from one persons ATM machine to another?
I send you this financial transaction in order to have your advice.
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
I think the key issues here are size and power consumption. I think Microsoft has figured out how to make their software stable , but they've traded stabled for bloated code. While this is fine for the desktop world of 20+ gb hard drives.. this proves a serious hurdle for anything that can't afford it.
NO. I sincerely doubt you can imagine a Beowulf cluster of these. And if you can, you're a retard.
"Mod, mod, mod...and another troll bites the dust."
Maybe I am still living in my cave (urr, office) but how many devices did actually have CE in it. Outside of the normal PDA. I have seen and heard about Linux (and BSD) being in things like, printers, "plug-and-play" servers (like those toys from Colbalt), etc.
:)
There is a machine at the family business called a Holtzma. Its a German made saw. Its made to cut entire books of plywood (MCP, pine, or whatever). They have 3 of them, one with simple switches which is *VERY* old. The second has a digital display but looks like a custom OS. The newest one has a Windows machine build in. (I can't wait for the day when I walk by, see the blue seen of death, and get to say those famous words
Anyway, the point behind the saw is that this would be the perfect place for Linux. The PC running it currently has to be a fast machine, becuase of the Windows requirements. Linux however, could use much lower requirements. Plus, take a window manager like blackbox, or other small window manager, to make it simple, small, nice user interface. Since people aren't using things like office suites, you could rip a lot of crap out of it.
Security on such a machine is also a big concern. Wouldn't it be great if your employee didn't feel like working that day, fired up regedit and made a few small changes ? You could imagine all of the other things that could be done. Since its Windows, theres always a false sense of security.
I assume in a few years companys like them would start getting smarter about it. People don't want propritary systems, they want something simple and small. Windows, has too many toys built into it that can't be removed. Plus, when you start looking at the outrages licensing ammounts for Windows. Linux, starts looking VERY nice.
To get Linux being used in a serious way, alls it would take is for a large PDA company like Palm to start offearing it on a few Palm Pilots. (Maybe create a few models with it, just to test the waters). People would start fogetting about Palm OS pretty quick. Other companys would surley follow.
</soapbox>
until (succeed) try { again(); }
---
new advisory posted XX-XX-XXXX (date censored due to DMCA violations).
description: new bug in IE version 12, default on all windows embedded applications (including ATM, slot machines, car stereo systems).
quick description: by using some malformed ATM-cards, an attacker can inject a code that will make IE cross-jump between bank accounts, and therefore access the internals of the account. The string has been sent to microsoft for further analyzation, and hopefully they will give an Obscure Patch within the next eight months.
personal considerations: perhaps in a world of full-disclosure, microsoft would give a patch in few days and save zillions of ATM users, but surely this system could be used by terrorists to subvert the US banking system. so censoring advisories is a good idea.
---
-- There are two kind of sysadmins: Paranoids and Losers. (adapted from D. Bach)
I get spam from them all the time! How can you say uncommunicative?
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
It seems like microsoft is all too happy to innovate on the desktop to get rid of competition (look at media player and IE), but will SLOW down innovation in competing environments. The killing of bluetooth is an example where Microsoft thought that ubiquitous handheld devices could kill a future project of theirs (.NET), and so they got rid of all support for any facet of that platform.
20$ rebate on all windows xp purchases! Just find an XP enabled ATM machine, call microsoft on your cell phone, and type in your registration key into the ATM, and you get 20$ free! (Microsoft will not steal personal information from you, such as your bank account number or which ATM machines at which banks you go to. However Microsoft is not responsible if your money is stolen due to security holes in the ATM's embedded operating system.)
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
The start menu alone will take up 90% of the screen on any decent PDA!
heh heh.
--- sig moved for great justice.
I guess it's fortunate they don't have to meet some of their customers in person. There are some really angry people out there right now.
the company i'm at is having problems getting this on anything smaller than a 128 meg DOM.
and thats without ANY applications.
and the target designer is nasty.
microsoft is embracing all of that (passport, atm, slot machines, msnbc). ...wow...
what's next? reproduction? sex? will we have microsoft powered condoms, that will look bigger but require a lot of resources?
-- There are two kind of sysadmins: Paranoids and Losers. (adapted from D. Bach)
Seriously, in things like ATM machines, bloatware isn't a real issue any more. A 1.4 Ghz processor + mobo + 1 gb of ram is less than $300. Given that an ATM machine itself is a great many times that, such a cost would be below most radars. On the other hand, security, and reliability are central. I hope that whatever they learn in this area gets over to the regular os folks, but have my doubts.
God help us though if they decide to do a joint marketing effort with X10. I'm sorry but you must read the following 5 spams, 10 popunders, 14 popovers & etc. before you can withdraw your money...
Sex is heriditary, if your parents didn't have it chances are good you won't either.
- The Cluetrain Manifesto
, advocates as being the next evolution of business. (I haven't actually read the book yet, but I listened to him speak in Boulder once, and his argument was extremely convincing.) This is my first time posting in slashdot, so forgive any stylistic errors.News.com notes that this will be used in slot machines and ATMs If you hait a jackpot, the WinXP embedded machine sticks a vacuum hose into your pocket and sucks out all of your money.
That's right, we're on full boycott of the payper liesense 'products' of those racketeerious gangsters.
DJIA here the one about linuxtoday getting phracked? Certainly not from them, you didn't.
last few daze of our web address giveaway. Includes a year's free hosting, in case you knead somewhere to hang your hack, while the GNU millennium kicks in/.asp.
Free money, or FEE money?
A Fee of $4.00 will be charged to this transaction for customer support, legal fees and continued lobbying to prevent Microsoft from being punished for monopolistic practices.
PRESS THIS BUTTON TO ACCEPT ---->
OR
PRESS THIS BUTTON TO ACCEPT ---->
Sorry, CANCEL has been disabled, please call 1-900-UGO-MSFT for customer support, first 30 minutes $75, mininum charge 30 minutes.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
It's an "Out of virtual memory" message. (In swedish) And I've seen quite a few of these. Also on the arrival/departure screens on Arlanda/Stockholm you see failiures quite often.
$HOME is where the
-- silver_p
I once heard that OS/2 was a big thing for ATM machines. At that one of the reasons OS/2 will not go Open Source, at least for a while, has to do with that. Well, that and the fact that in Europe OS/2 is still used for controls of scientific machines and support contracts still hasn't run out.
Can anyone verify this? I've done a little looking on the regular search engines and come up with nothing.
All I've seen is silly press releases and such. I noticed on the MS website, that there is a trial version of the EmbXP IDE. Has anyone experimented with this?
Else, are there any MS employees or other folks who can point to some technical information, like memory req's.?
We need info, not banter.
To discourage is bad karma
Natwest, Ecclesall road, sheffield. ... Thank you so very much Microsoft.
£30 please - chug chug - BSOD - 3 mins of BIOS crap - shredding sound - "press CTRL + ALT + DEL to log on"
The embedded devices market is not all about small and fast. And even where the issue is small and fast, the XP kernel may well prove to have more to offer than many UNIX designs.
There is a wide range of embedded devices, from washing machines to cars, to industrial process machinery. Until recently only a small fraction of those systems had anything as sophisticated as an operating system.
If on the other hand you want to build a next generation audio system you are likely to find that you need an O/S, you need some sort of file system to store your MP3s, you have an ethernet and possibly a WiFi interface to support, you may even support PCMCIA or compactflash. XP has major advantages in that space since you are guaranteed to have a driver available.
The bloatware charge is and always has been bogus. People don't seem to understand that the value of a 3 year old PC is $150 and so there is no particular reason why Microsoft should limit a $100/$200 O/S so that it can run under the constraints of that machine. 512Mb SIMMs are on sale these days for the price of 16Mb SIMMs a couple of years back, nobody actually makes 20Gb 3.5" disks any more, they are too small to bother with.
RAM and disk space are not constrained resources on the PC, so don't expect companies in that space to constrain them in their products. The O/S kernel is kept small because the performance of the machine depends on large parts of it being in primary or secondary cache most of the time.
The features of XP that will be much more relevant to the embedded systems space are its multi-tasking and scheduling control. I don't expect any traditional UNIX kernel to do well there, the UNIX architecture was never designed for and is simply not up to RT tasks. Thats why the RT Linux varieties have major mods to the internals to support features such as guaranteed scheduling etc.
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
In fact, embedded XP is the best thing since sliced bread and the Stinger platform will rarely crash your phone. The XBox kicks ass and Steve "Fester" Balmer is the nicest guy you can imagine.
In essence, it's really not true that Microsoft employees subvert discussion groups. I can prove it if you send mail to captainzapp@microsoft.com.
ich bin der musikant
mit taschenrechner in der hand
kraftwerk
A kinder, gentler overbearing corporate monopoly. How refreshing.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
Embedded could be thought of as 'a computer inside something that's not a computer'.
The computer that handles the engine in modern cars, for instance.
Embedded does not mean 'small and fast'.
Where on earth did you get the '60% of all embedded systems are DOS and the Linux??
Most embedded systems are QNX, VXWorks, and other, traditional real-time operating systems, or hand-written from scratch.
RTLinux is a relative newcomer.
Or do you think 'embedded' means 'small PC' or 'handheld pc'? It doesn't.
Because embedded XP probably has nothing to do with the user-interface features of Windows XP.
Embedded operating systems provide a framework for custom applications to run.
And before you 'trust' them more than you do MS, do you even know who they are? Bold statement.
Embedded systems in ATM's are rigorously programmed applications. THe fact that they move to a different OS is no big deal.
You'll note that it is touted for use in "ATMs and slot machines". That is because it cannot be used for hard realtime, low latency applications like flight controls, robotics, or medical devices. It is also sure to be bloated and inefficient compared with something that is designed from the ground up to be an embedded OS.
I'd highly recommend QNX instead, it is POSIX and QNX sits on the realtime Linux committee. Hard Hat Linux and cousins are looking better and better as well. These solutions do support hard realtime scheduling, thus providing across the board solutions for all your embedded needs. QNX, in particular, is also very well engineered. It provides a highly modular architecture, allowing you to deploy only the functionality you need, minimizing system cost.
299,792,458 m/s...not just a good idea, its the law!
Galileo: "The Earth revolves around the Sun!"
Score: -1 100% Flamebait
..is how they took the name of a fabulous whisky and applied it to their shite system.
Also, some cashpoints in the UK run some version of NT now and I saw one at Charing Cross station with a fatal error dialog box on the screen.
To be fair, if I were an MS employee, I would be interested in letting people know about Embedded XP's key features like Windows File Protection and Windows Driver Protection. Currently I run Mac OS X, so I am already protected against Windows Drivers, but boy, what I wouldn't give to be protected from Windows Files!
Not since Marie-Antoinette played milkmaid has looking simple and honest been so fake and complicated.
...the Lloyds ATM in Cluny Square, Buckie, runs DOS. It crashed once when my brother was using it, and ate his card.
Scary? How many other ATMs around the world run DOS?
"I think he was truly surprised at how little I cared about how big a market the Mac had" - Linus on Jobs
... The age-old question... What crashed first? The O/S or the economy?
~m
It would be very hard for a company to be less trustworthy than MS. And I'm not kidding either.
The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive
Mean and evil, that's what you are.
REPENT SINNER.
The real truth: embedded is simple and stupid and for a single purpose. One doesn't even need an operating system provided one know how to set up the processor registers in Assembler or C code.
Microslut is SOO evil and pathetic. What you wish on us will happen to you.
All of your bad Karma is belonging to YOU.
the CD is "bloated" if you can call it that. If you try the disk you'll pee your pants... :)
Imagine a Beowulf Clus .. *OUCH*!
I can see it now...
Bar....BAR......Blue Screen?
does this mean that banks will have to reboot their atm machines..?
How does bloated code define stability? Unless there is more robust error checking, bloated code tends to make a system less stable.
Welcome to WinXP for ATM
Please wait.
Enter your card.
New hardware found! Installing card-reader, please wait.
Please remove card from ATM.
Rebooting...
Welcome to WinXP for ATM
Please wait.
GPF, press "1, Clear + Enter" to reboot.
Rebooting...
Welcome to WinXP for ATM
Please wait.
Scandisk found errors on card-reader.
Enter your card.
Errors on your card have been found. Would you like to create a recovery-card?
"No."
It looks like you have never used this ATM before, would you like to transfer your profile?
"How do you know that?? No!"
You have selected withdraw cash.
Access Denied. Only a user with administrative rights may perform this action.
"F***.. Gimme back my card!"
Unable to remove card, there has been a sharing violation. This card is in use by another user.
"WTF????"
My life is one big siesta in which I'm dreaming I wished my life was one big siesta.
there is one ATM network for all banks, managed by an independent group. They are all in color, and some talk and everything. They all used to run OS/2, and there was never a problem, but now they've switched to NT.
Boy, you wouldn't believe the things I've seen popping up on the screen. Everything from "driver failed to load" from "multimedia is on, press ok to continue"! hehehehehe! (how do you press ok on an ATM?)
Oh, and, of course, blue-screens galore!
Next thing you know, the money comes out before you even put in the card...
shana
So you are the one responsible for this!!
Hey guys! Lets /. him!!
For great justice!!
Err.. Now I need some sleep... :-P
$HOME is where the
-- silver_p
What embedded systems do you work on ? Most embedded systems (controllers, switches etc etc) run a very very small RTOS, DOS is not an RTOS (Real Time Operating System).
DOS is not an RTOS, Linux is not an RTOS. These systems are not really talking about embedded stuff at all, they are talking about small PC architectures, which have their place. But embedded is about small footprint and 100% reliability. I wouldn't like to know that the medical controller my life relied upon was using DOS.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
Maybe microsoft should stop paying employees to write good things about microsoft and start writing good code instead!
The display you see for example on ATMs I suspect is just as easy to draw regardless of the OS you use. You're writing embedded systems, which means you are likely to write your own drivers anyways. If you are going to run XP, you certainly have the space/power to run a library like SDL which can do everything XP can do graphically AND remain much less dependent on your platform.
I am not trying to bash windows (okay, I am kinda), but just point out that an OS used primarily as a windowing system, may not be the best pick for a non-windowing system. Its like having windows on PDAs. The screens are barely big enough to show just one window, why would someone want overlapping windows?
Are there any companies out there building embedded linux stuff for ATM's and slot machines to challenge MS in this market space? I've read lots of comments here about geeks who looked at devices and said, "wouldn't it be neat if that was embedded linux?" But I'm tired of those posts. Your ideas are grand, now go start a company!
MS is making a move into the ATM and slot machine market, who is going to stop them with an embedded linux solution for this space? I'd love to read about it here on this NEWS site.
Let me get this straight: M$ has ordered their employees to promote M$ products online. Does anyone remember when having a job meant you were still considered a human being with individuality and human rights?
.COM barbarians. Corporate IT culture in general is a vacuous hell made up of the dumbest people I've ever met. Greed is the great God of geek culture. Money is the first force in the lives of most of the people who read this. They are willing (very willing) to give up their human rights, or at least keep quiet, for an IT position and $28K a year. Pretty cheap, but it's the truth. The combination of young, naive workers with high technical skills and a corporate money machine (that has never been so powerful in the history of the Industrial Age) has created culture so empty and ugly I can't but look back at my IT career in disgust. What have I accomplished? A few bad M$ networks and Gigs of useless technical docs. What's the point? Oh yea, some suit throws $$$ at me every two weeks. I contributed nothing to my community and in fact, I've stolen and lied to my customers... mainly because I knew that M$ server software was crap... "Oh yea, it's Microsoft so it's the best...". But I knew better. Not only that, I was well aware that I could have set my customers up at a fraction of the price with a Unix solution.
If my employer asked me to promote the corporation, or even asked me to keep my opinions about the evil practices of my company to myself (not now, my current company is quite nice)... I wouldn't. 'Course, Bill Gates would fire me. I wonder how many of you IT geeks would too.
I have no problem giving out my opinion about M$, East Link Systems, @Home, and the rest of the
It's not that I feel like I'm stealing... it's that M$ is stealing from me. It's just that I'm passing on the theft to the customer. It's called progress I think.
It's like a Phillip K. Dick novel! The corps are legally considered individuals themselves, giving them unprecedented power over the individual, not to mention their all powerful political lobbies. How is the individual worker supposed to maintain their positions, prestige, and career path when they can be downsized, fired, "let go", or even arrested at the whim of their greedy bitter managers? And managers are all bitter and mean, aren't they? They have something to protect - from you! But I digress...
I'd like to say the future looks bleak... but this is the future and it's all come true. Sorry Phillip K. - the plastic has yet to melt.
Main Entry: oxymoron /-'mOr-&, -'mor-/
Pronunciation: "äk-si-'mOr-"än, -'mor-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural oxymora
Etymology: Late Greek oxymOron, from neuter of oxymOros pointedly
foolish, from Greek oxys sharp, keen + mOros foolish
Date: 1657
: a combination of contradictory or incongruous words (as cruel kindness)
"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety"-B.Franklin
There have been numerous posts like this, and the answer is simple: Honestly, for most people, learning another operating system is not worth the time or effort. Now more than ever, as Windows systems are starting to crash less. For most people, it is not worth the time or trouble; it is obvious.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
That is a reasonable perspective if you are talking about desktop PC OS usage at home. Most people don't want to mess around with their desktop PC at home; they want to use it to actually do things, and then once they're done they want to quit dealing with the computer and go back to watching TV or whatever else it is that they do. I don't have any problem with this, although I'm not really one of those people.
But when it comes to the selection of computing equipment, OSes, and software for a business environment or to be used as part of an embedded system which has certain requirements, it's ridiculous for a developer to say that they are not willing to learn how to create the best system/device possible. The whole point of being in IT, engineering, or development is to create the solution that meets your requirements in the best way, not just to stick with what you know and trust a vendor (and a particularly disreputable one at that) that their product will do the job. "I'm just too lazy to learn about alternatives" is an acceptable excuse for a home user, but it is professional incompetence in a business setting. You don't see accountants who fail to learn the new accounting rules because they can't be bothered to, do you? Or rather, you don't see those accountants employed for very long.
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
There have been numerous posts saying "why would anybody use xp embedded, let alone xp" , and the answer is simple:
Obviously, most people are most familiar with the windows os/gui. Honestly, for most people, learning another operating system is not worth the time or effort. When they are going to get a device with an embedded OS, they see that they can get one with a familiar interface (yes, microsoft's embedded OSes have a similar interface) or something with a completely new interface? Now more than ever, as Windows systems are starting to crash less. For most people, it is not worth the time or trouble. It's obvious!
heh.. and does MSN Messenger insessantly load on all the machines. That'd b great, i can check my hotmail while waiting 5 min for my transaction to complete.
:->
Better yet, maybe they leave the remote adminstration enabled by default
the head of our IT dept. came back from a conference where it was announced that embedded NT/XP would be the new OS on these switches over the UNIX-based OS that has been running them for the last 10-15 years. What were they thinking? why touch anything that is that important? Imagine a company with 1000 employees in a call center and NT decides to barf a lung during the hour when the phone traffic coming in is the busiest....think they will buy another switch from Lucent? an ATM or a Kiosk is hardly mission critical. but a phone switch? where is MS and their "Mythical 5 9's" ad now.
ick ick ick..
er.. heh
"News.com notes that this will be used in slot machines and ATMs. Insert obligatory free-money joke."
see subject line.
Free as in "the Truth shall set you..."
But speaking as someone who has used Microsoft development products for over a decade now, the trouble has always been that the information flow was one-way. They provide you with reams of information, but when you report a problem (and in one case, I was even able to give them a source line and fix for a bug in the ATL), it usually goes into a black hole. I still remember how shocked I was the first time this happened to me. I was used to the way Borland actually let you talk to an engineer and gave you an answer in a timely fashion, even if it was "well, we'll fix it in the next release".
And while I am talking about failings of Microsoft's developer support, I'll mention the other big one: They have a tendency to focus too much on the technology du jour and not enough on older stuff. You find lots of stupidities like sample code that no longer works (just ran into this the other day with the "SAMPLE.DSM" macros that come with Visual Studio). The people at Microsoft need to understand that developers can't just instantly jump to whatever new technology is out there even if it is superior. When you've got a million lines of code that use DDE, the answer "Use COM" is not sufficient.
The cake is a pie
So is this like the embedded Windows NT from about four years ago, which required 48MB(!) of ROM or disk space, and an x86 processor? I don't know how anyone could think of embedded devices with such a monster running on them.
Bush Lies Watch
Yes, you are michael. Please stop your inane commentary.
"It can be a bit of an ego blow sometimes," Morris recalled. "But it comes down to this: We're trying to sell our product to these people, and sometimes they give us very valuable feedback."
Indeed, Morris said that Microsoft incorporated that customer's feedback in its second beta edition of Talisker, which will ultimately be called Windows CE.Net when it debuts as a full-fledged product later this year.
"
That's good. Communication is always good, whether the product is open or not.
Now do it with all of your products (including Windows XP) and I will might consider go back to Windows full-time. And stop hiding features in the registry! You listening Microsoft!?!
Now we know how little John Connor did it!
There are two kinds of people in the world: Those with good memory.
Microsoft seems re-defining the term "embeded". In my experience, embeded means a device who's OS is completly invisible to the end users.
To me a sales/Internet kiosk is not embedded, a PDA is not embedded. Embedded systems are not necessarily small, but the user is not required to know abut the system at all. For instance, a telephone switches, PVR, heart-rate monitor, automotive control.
These devices run with minimal system resoures for years on end without errors, reboots or upgrades. Frequently, the OS is coded in ROM. T
I used to use an OS called OS/9 from Microware on my 6809 based Tandy Color Computer. This OS ran in 64K (not Meg) or RAM and a single 360KB floppy drive. It's a real time, protected memory, secure operating system. OS/9 runs on quite a few low-wattage CPUs with significant processing power. While not free, it is a mature, reliable OS. And I mean OS, not kernel.
Probably everone in the United States interacts with and OS/9 embedded system on a regular basis, but they'll never know it.
MS on the other hand is providing an OS that will still run on a high power consumption system with tremendous resources that is built in to, or controls some other device or structure. In most of the applications this "embeded XP" would target, the OS would be the front end that interacts with the end user.
Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
XP should be imbedded in those machines you usually find in train stations that will weigh you and tell your fortune.
That way, Microsoft can honestly say XP "scales".
{mmph, snort, BWAAAHAHAHAHA}
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
News.com notes that this will be used in slot machines and ATMs. Insert obligatory free-money joke.
Is that free-as-in-beer money or free-as-in-speech money?
I love how you all start bashing embeded XP when not a single one of you has any experience whatsoever with it. It makes you sound really intellegent. For the vast majority out there who appears to be ignorant fanatics, the sentence before this was sarcasm.
In Sweden, some ATMs are already running NT.
:)
And yes, they did *actually* get those "Low on Virtual Memory" errors (try to hit CTRL-ALT-DELETE to reboot on an ATM) and even a few bluescreens back then. I kid you not.
On the other hand after those child diseases, they are actully seeming to behave, and I know of noone that has actually lost (or gotten) money due to this.
The banks just needed two service packs, is my guess.
Well, so this product, after troubles unheard of in other systems, finally made it "stable" and "reliable".
I would not like to bet my money once again, just because I got the winning ticket once. Would you?
great. now i'm going to be required to pay *direct visible* taxes to MS
Now it will be easy to get money from a slot machine and hard to get money from an ATM.
--Luke Crowthers
`which fortune`
The Albertson's grocery stores here changed over to an NT-based system this year. A couple of weeks ago, the computer decided that the stores weren't making ebough money. So it took the ATM charges people made at the registers and ran them through five to eight more times each...
Is there any place we can contribute the pictures. I have a few I've photographed of Windows devices doing what Windows does best.
Microsoft commonly smurfs newsgroups and other public forums (letters to the editor, etc.) The more influential they perceive the forum to be, the more effort they put into it. Yes, this includes /.
Back on the old Canopus forum on Compuserve, there was a character named Arnold who wrote countless pro-Microsoft messages in the days of the war with OS/2. I'm talking about 1992-1995 when the need for PR was very great -- Microsoft had to convince people that they didn't need a 32-bit pre-emptive multitasking OS.
Arnold was incredibly prolific. He'd respond to your arguments in the space of a few minutes, and his response would demonstrate incredibly detailed understanding of the topic, both broad and deep. There were rumors that he was Bill Gates. But I' pretty sure the truth is that he was the external interface to a complex system that linked together many, many Microsoft and PR people in a sophisticated effort to influence the opinion of the high-level IT executives and writers who frequented the forum.
The reason I believe this is that Arnold himself suggested it to me.
Then there was Steve Barkto, a pro-Microsoft poster whose account, it turned out, had been paid for with a Microsoft credit card. That was probably the last time they did that.
How many times do you pull the handle before the BSoD signifies your Jackpot?
P.S. Simple way to BSoD XP -- Use the disk manager to create and format a new drive. While drive is formatting, attempt to open an Explorer window on the drive. Kaboom!
That is all.
What the hell do you need XP in a friggin' ATM for? Here's what the ATM does -- it asks you for 4 digits, an account (1-4), and a dollar ammount, 5 digits usually. We need a consumer desktop GUI in order to type in 10 digits?
My other car is first.
Bar... Bar... BSOD?!?
Okay, I can fully see why they're doing this: Slot machines are getting more and more advanced these days to bring in more consumers who aren't traditionally attracted to the "one armed bandit". So they make them more advanced with sound, video and everything else you can name. This is fine with me since I don't gamble.
But, to be fair, the Windows product line has been rightly derided for it's stability (though, IMO, Xfree is even less stable :) ) and there is the problem. Most multi-media slaot machines run on proven embedded OS's (especially QNX) and a pretty much bullet-proof becuase they are so single-focused.
I'm not sure of the size of Embedded XP, but I have feeling it will be like embedded NT and have loads of cruft that you'll never need in an embedded system -- and that just gives more stuff to go wrong.
An issue arises: GO to Las Vegas and look at the legal notices posted around, usually around the change cage -- one of them will be a big sign saying something like "in the case of mechanical or elelctronic failure or error, all payouts are declared void and all wagers are considered forfeit." What this is saying is that if your eXP multimedia slot machine BSODs and spits out 50k dollars at you, you don't get to keep it -- what's more is that any money you put into the machine as a bet is lost.
Casino aren't in this business to loose money.
Hilary Rosen's speech was about her love of money and her desire to roll around naked in a pile of money.
That is exactly what makes Windows FLAKY.
Want lots of BSOD? Then do lots of multitasking,
better yet do lots of multitasking at the Kernel/
Driver level. Get your drivers from those nice
Companies that don't give a crap if your
machine has a race condition on day 13 and blue
screens. And when it does, give them a call and
see if they will fix it.
Its really a bummer to get stuck with
a proprietary system/code that is flaky,
and you are at the whims of the Company
that produces it.
"Hi, I've been working
on this new cash machine for the last year,
we finally got it out in the field and now
it crashes every so often". I think its
crashing in the "smart card" driver, but I'm
not sure because I don't have the source code
to it, or the operating system that surrounds
it, so I can't debug it - Actually I could, but
it takes damn near forever to debug something
when you have to do it with dissassembly listings."
Hmmmm, I wonder if that "smart-card" driver and
library is really secure? The Company that made
it told me not to worry, so it must be OK.
Sure would be nice if I could look at the code
to see if it used ROT13.
Hmmmm, wonder if there are any bad bits in
that 512M DIMM module we are buying. I know,
I'll just assume that there aren't, and if
it blue screens, I'll blame it on Microsoft.
I mean, hey, that integrated motherboard is
good enough for joe blow six pack, I think
I'll put it in a Best Buy POS. Why? Because
Microsoft says I can, XP is for embedded now.
(Thats sarcasm...)
So, they are assuming that the system will encounter problems (wise, since most embedded systems will eventually run into a case the developer did not plan for). I actually bothered looking at the overview, and for the market I work in (really embedded systems) WindowsXP embedded is way overkill. Middleware is now being standardized on Java (sorry, can't find the link right now). So, I am thinking that large scale systems (like ATM's and public displays, etc) are their target.
-- The Hollow Man
Non illegitimati carborundum
Linux is a hobby OS championed by computing enthusiasts.
Reference 'Amiga' for historical background.
Hey, does this mean that microsoft can settle their lawsuits by handing out atm cards to plaintiffs with a $ limit on them? :P
-elmar-
>News.com notes that this will be used in slot >machines and ATMs. Insert obligatory free-money >joke.
..
Well, I don't think it is funny at all. I've seen Windows NT SP-6 crash an ATM about one and a half month ago..
It had allready absorbed my card and it bloody bluescreened, after a while, it decided to reboot. I was happy to see it was a standard procedure of the machine to spit out an inserted card after reboot..
About two weeks ago, the 'same', thing happened but than with a missing DLL or something. Anyway, it had eaten my card and d*mnit, again it choose to not continue it service but show me a dialog screen on which I was supposed to click 'OK'
After a while I returned to the machine and it had blanked. A few hours later, (I had my card blocked), they found my card and I could unlock my card again.
I sincerely hope the dutch banks (these were two different banks at which this happened) switch to Linux ASAP. (Please note and Mind you; they do not want you at the counter no more!)
If they'll start applying XP on these, I'll be returning to the sock under my pillow.
tssk.
System requirements
I was under the (obviously wrong) impression that XP was a single pile that had to include IE. At least that is what the court testimony said. (I know it isn't true). Now we are told that one can build XP from small components. So why can't we unbundle XP and IE (and WMP, etc)? Can I get the parts and build an acceptable alternative pile? Can we get the court to require that XP be shipped as components?
Yeah, right. Who guarantees this? I want it in writing.
And then I want a driver for my PCMCIA network card which is neither supported with Windows 98, nor with 2000, nor with XP. It is, though, under Linux.
When did Microsoft ever guarantee anything? They say in their own EULA that their OS is unfit for 'mission critical' applications, and with the last couple months, most e-mail users and web server admins knew what itreally meant not to be able to properly fix your machine, no matter how much support contracts you had.
"People don't seem to understand that the value of a 3 year old PC is $150 and so there is no particular reason why Microsoft should limit a $100/$200 O/S so that it can run under the constraints of that machine."
no, You don't understand. People don't understand why they should buy a machine whose cost is 50% the software it runs. They don't understand why (to take your example) a simple MP3 player would need hundreds of MB of of hard disk just to drive an operating system, and the manufacturer wouldn't understand why they wouldn't be able to modify the OS to their own taste, but have to rely on the company to provide what is supposedly best for them.
And I personally don't believe that anybody can strip down XP to a level that makes it run satisfactorily on a 386 class CPU from a 4MB flash ROM that needs close to no electrical power, when the application this system is supposed to run doesn't need Gigahertz and Gigabytes.
"I don't expect any traditional UNIX kernel to do well there, the UNIX architecture was never designed for and is simply not up to RT tasks. Thats why the RT Linux varieties have major mods to the internals to support features such as guaranteed scheduling etc."
Windows "wasn't originally designed to be" multi-tasking, multi-user, not to mention even being network capable, either. And I don't think you have actually seen RTLinux yet - or MS have achieved something MUCH better than their various embedded forks of Windows since I last checked.
My point is that RTLinux is making headway fast, and I don't hear much about Windows in the embedded market. And for this, there must be a reason.
Home Page
OK - 3 points:
1. DOS, pSOS, & VxWorks *dominate* the embedded scene right now, not Linux and not CE. (although there are good movements by other "alternatives" to the big-license - things like Nucleus)
2. The REAL name of "XP Embedded" should be "XP Modular" since thats really what it is and what its intended to be. You can think of XP Embedded (and the NT Embedded that preceded it) as an alternative way to install plain-ol XP. Its "Platform Builder" allows you to choose all the various modules and parts of normal XP and create a custom image and boot for the system - nothing else. (although thats still a useful thing, but it'd certainly be nice if this was something that came along with XP as it is now rather than a "different" product)
3. In "some" ways, you can/could think of the XBox as "Windows 2000 Embedded" even tho such a product never existed.
if you change more than 6 resistors on your ebedded solutions does XP deactivate itself and require you to re-register?
Suck for pace makers.
Embedded.com talks about CE and the article at microsoft.com talks about Windows XP - "Built upon the proven code base of Windows® 2000, Windows XP Embedded delivers....". The slashdot article seems to talk about them both. Be aware of the difference!
So how is WinXP, THE biggest bloatware out there in terms of an OS (who needs all the media crap they stuffed in it when I've got all the media programs I could ever want for free on the 'net?), going to even come close to competing in an 'embedded' market place? It is THE quintessential definition of a "microprocessor of OS's" versus something like PalmOS, which I would consider much more of a "microcontroller of OS's." Microsoft is making some stupid moves, and their shareholders had better realize that MS has a good (albeit, evil) business model for making money, but they're just not going to rake in the dough with this 'latest, greatest' XP system like they hope to. It's not new or revolutionary, just shitload's worth of bug fixes to what people wanted out of Win95 originally. And I, like most people who want to be on the cutting edge of technology, am not seeing a need, or even a want, to make the upgrade to WinXP for a long time.
Hopefully for the last time: 95% of Dreamcast games do not run WinCE/DirectX. The operating system the Dreamcast uses resides on the disc, not the system ROM, and is up to the developer what OS and API to use.
Most Dreamcast games used "SegaKatana," which was Sega's own API/OS for games. It was lean, mean, and very stable.
Since the Dreamcast uses a Hitachi SH4 processor (same family as PocketPCs), Windows CE compatibility was implemented to encourage PC ports. Most WinCE games (Worms World Party, Hidden and Dangerous, etc) are notoriously buggy and ugly compared to Katana games. This is not completely WinCE's fault, as most of the developers using WinCE didn't give a rat's ass about making a good port.
Homebrew developers can also build games using gcc. Several emulators and even a version of Linux have come to Dreamcast using this toolkit.
Conclusion: Don't associate the Dreamcast with Windows CE.
(-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
As a Win32 programmer, it is a good thing that Microsoft is following the lead from free software. While obviously they didn't invent the process (they didn't claim to either) I am very happy that the learning process is taking place. With free software taking UI and usability clues from Microsoft, and Microsoft taking feedback and compatibility (XML/SOAP etc) clues from free software... the world is getting better software from both sides! As a developer I congratulate both.
501 Not Implemented
Ok Bill, bend over
I can't see why so many people seem mad at MS. Don't you realize this is just another humanitarian effort of the part of the world's greatest philanthropist Bill Gates. MS is just trying to save people the pain of using an unstable, overpriced, insecure, banking system as well as stop the flow of open source application made by greedy, unscrupulous, devil worshipping, European communist infiltrators attempting to overthrow democracy through their subversive operating systems. If you think about it it is really your ethical duty to help stop the loss of freedom and support Microsoft's well intentioned attempts to improve (as if that were possible!) their software.
By the way DMCA rocks!!
(protect the right of song artists and support the RIAA, another well intentioned organization with only the intrests of song artists and music in heart!)
I stole this Sig
No, that was the Apple. The Amiga was a next gen game console with a keyboard attached to it. It was so powerful, everyone thought it was really a computer.
And the banks won't stop there. They're going to sell the ad space. You'll have to see Bob Dole watching the Pepsi sluts before you may have your money.
I love how they have a nice big typo for "Embedded Windows CP" instead of "XP" ... in a nice, large type size. Someone missed a key, slightly :)
nt kernel was designed to be all of the above and as we all know xp runs nt kernel
I feel I must point out you are on Slashdot...therefore by your own logic you are an idiot as well.
they can have XP on all the embedded devices they want, but its gonna be hard to cram a 500mhz x86 processor, 128mb ram, a new video card(probably from nVidia) for alpha blending and interface effects, and a 15 monitor all into a pda. Or am I missing something? :D
...and why was it modded a troll?
What sort of idiot moderator was responsible for that?
Maybe there's a moderator out there who's been clicking "-1, Flamebait" in mistake for "+1, Funny"?
...and press any key.
Microsoft is not used to handing out money for anything except marketing, so I need to search the installation medium for the necessary driver.
Please wait, and ignore any ghasps or screams of pain and rage which may occur during this process.
[--OK--] [--Easier-to-forget-about-the-money--] [--Too-drunk-to-care--] [--Screenshot--]
.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Or, in the case of the Reign of Terror and/or sundry ``Communist'' regimes, killing each other for having an ``imaginary friend.''
imagine that... or that... or that...
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
That's so the tech support people for the other Windows-based products get a legitimate break every so often from all of those whining users. And the users feel better because the tech support people have had a taste of what they face every morning. Sorry, our 'phone system went down and we couldn't find the installation CD.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
eXcess Pieces?
eXtra Pieces?
comes in X Pieces, some assembly required?
you've heard about bits, well here they are... the XP From Scratch distribution... (-:
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Embedded? It means that the kiosk weighs so much by the time you've got it all optioned up to work acceptably, that it embeds itself in the pavement.
512MB plus gigabytes of disk for basic OS plus database components? Suuure... I can probably give you that in 512K of RAM and on one floppy! Give me a superdrive floppy and and 16MB and you can have a complete, all-singing, all dancing diskless kiosk (Galeon on FB on Linux) built out of commodity OSS components.
You want me to do embedded XP? No worries, but you supply the shovel.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers, *wheeze*, Developers, Developers, WinXP Embedded?
So now rather than be "incommunicative," Microsoft is going to become the biggest, highest budget spamming corportation on Usenet. That sounds like -real- fun. I wonder how many messages in comp.os.linux.* are now going to start with "well I don't know, but if you use Windows embedded products..?"
Famously, it's Microsoft's head that's always been embedded up its ass.
"Evil Inside?" Art imitating life, I tell ya...
Do you like German cars?
One on an airline schedule-thing, the one that tells you when the planes come- That was in 1998.
And one last week, on a Megatouch XL (someone kept winning the "tell the difference" game.)
So it does happen.
First couple of weeks they had the system up, I kept seeing BSOD's and error messages on em.
Also, when a technician comes, you can see what OS their running, it has a diagnostic program.
Nice machines, looks like they have a happy hacking keyboard or equivalent inside (for when the techs fix em.)
I checked the sys requirements and I thought I'm going to die laughing.
It's embedded yet it needs a CD-ROM or DVD and a Microsoft compatible mouse. How the hell am I going to stash a DVD in my watch ?!?
philip
__________
Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace!
I won' t mention any names, but in working along side and for several medical companies (software and hardware), I'll tell you that when you go to the hospital, as a geek, you would truly lose your mind in paranoia if you knew what most of those devices were running. Not to mention the systems that do claims processing. Fear.
Duh! This is Microsoft enlisting their employees to do marketing for them. Next their employment agreements will read "Employee agrees not to discuss any software vendor in public or private, with the exception of making statements approved by Microsoft Marketing"
- In a knowledge based industry your main asset will always be people -
like, who really fucking cares about mod points anyways...losers!
No joke either, thing had completly crashed to the desktop. Thank god there was no mouse or keyboard attatched. I could imagine the diagnostic control panel could be used for devious things by a person with the right ./mindset to know what to start looking for.
Ah yes, the bill dispenser unit test screen! Click Click Click Click
I think one reason you see Windows variants in places where it definitely shouldn't be are because we have millions of programmers that only know Win32 and/or MFC. Many programmers think "CopyMemory()" before "memcpy()". Same goes for working with time; in the Windows API header files dealing with the time_t type, lots of things are marked "deprecated". A colleague and I fought for days to write some code to manipulate time using the Win32 functions, and then realized that handling time with time_t (and the "deprecated" functions) was standard, and *much* more well designed.
Those are not 'critical' applications, and not the traditional embedded market either.
If a slot machine crashes, and needs to be restarted, it's not a disaster. The same for an ATM. SO long as neither will hand out oodles of cash for no reason, it's okay.
However, the flight control mechanims on a billion dollar spacecraft, or passenger jet, or fighter jet, those are *real* embedded systems.
The OS on your pacemaker, the computer in your car that controls the ABS... these are the kinds of things he means when he speaks of the 'traditional' embedded market.
Or how I like to think if it, 'computers inside things that aren't computers'. (A slot machine is kind of a computer, so is an ATM. but a car?)