Slashback: Tableturkey, Stromlo, Mandrake

Slashback tonight with followups on previous stories about tablet computers, the fire at Mt.Stromlo, and Mandrake Linux -- read below for the details. Update: 01/24 00:08 GMT by T : One more update added below, regarding the post earlier this week on nVidia's new video card.

The silver lining.dragonsister writes "Regarding the recent slashdot story on Mount Stromlo Observatory being hit by fire, it seems the damage is not nearly as extensive as it might have been. The Australian National University has posted details here. In particular, the office buildings were spared, meaning that the work of staff and students is safe, and the many years worth of data collected should still be usable. The main question remaining in my mind is whether or not there were backups of the data on the computers that were actually located in the telescope buildings themselves, as these contained information crucial to the interpretation of some of the data. The importance of off-site backups has just been demonstrated. Everybody backup now!"

And blakduk writes "We were able to enter the site and retrieve computing equipment that survived the fire. This enabled us to set up our servers and have all staff back on-line within 24 hours."

Other than that, how was the parade? Back in November, I posted an article about the DocuNote, an inexpensive tablet PC available with Linux. According to richardbondi , maybe "cheap" would be a better word. He writes:

"I bought one, it arrived today. It was clearly used, not new, and didn't work. If you tilted it, it hung. I gave up after a dozen reboots. Only purchasable from www.microsono.com, where all sales are final.

The handwriting recognition software turned out to be trialware.

And although the stepupcomputing.com site says it works with Windows 2000, it came with a note that said now it has to be OEM installed.

One user's bad experience -- bad hardware, deceptive advertising re software."

Looks nice over two monitors, too. Znonymous Coward writes "Mandrake is trying to prove it's not dead yet. Yesterday[Note: the 19th, that is], they released Beta 2 of Mandrake 9.1. You can get the 2 ISO images from the usual mirrors." There's a (critical but mostly positive) review of this 2nd beta running at DistroWatch, too.

Once this starts it always gets messy. Per Hansson writes

"Yesterday we at Techspot posted a Interview with Nvidia plus high-resolution pictures of the Geforce FX.

A few sites rightfully claimed that this material had been stolen from Nordichardware however this was not the case, we interviewed Nvidia at the same time and therefore our Interviews looks so similar."

Anton Nilsson, assistant editor in chief of Nordic Hardware writes, in contrast,

"... [I]t seems as if they have used my material as found here.

I've spoken to the TechSpot staff and the person who reported the news item to you and it seems as if they overheard me doing my interview with nVidia at Comdex. Since they didn't want to bug nVidia with the same questions again they later on read the interview at my page and then posted it on theirs. Still that doesn't make up a fair excuse in my opinion."

You'll have to make up your own mind on this.

Comments

Monty Python...

[Anonymous Coward]

Mandrake reminds me of the guy in the holy grail say: "I'm not dead yet"

Re:Monty Python...

[xao gypsie]

Mandrake reminds me of the guy in the holy grail say: "I'm not dead yet"

except i somehow dont think that they are saying 'i feel happy'..
xao

Re:Monty Python...

[leviramsey]

Mandrake reminds me of the guy in the holy grail say: "I'm not dead yet"

Chapter 11's only a flesh wound...

Re:Monty Python...

[einhverfr]

Chapter 11's only a flesh wound...

hehehehe But actually it is more of a tournequette....

Re:Monty Python...

[vsprintf]

Well, hey, I'll give you the +1 rotten potato for your contribution.

Re:Monty Python...

[TheLoneGundam]

Unfortunately for them the reply (in the movie) is "but you soon will be!"

Re:Monty Python...

[Alsee]

Come back here you coward! I'll byte you!

-

Re:Monty Python...

[Anonymous Coward]

You're not fooling anyone, you know. You'll be stone dead in a moment...

Mt Stromlo Research

[Wench]

If you want the official site, the university has set one up here

It is possible that they won't rebuild many telescopes. While it is very sad that so much classic equipment was lost, and a huge blow for the local amateur community, Canberra's light haze has been getting in the way of astronomy at Stromlo for years. Most of Stromlo's research is done up at Siding Springs observatory, way north near Coonabarabran.

Re:Mt Stromlo Research

[Anonymous Coward]

Eh, is this the same Stromoli research that brought about the Blight?! The Stromoli Perversion? What kind of power were they digging up when these fires consumed them?

Re:Mt Stromlo Research

[Anonymous Coward]

I had class this morning wth an astro prof who had a fairly major project going at Mt. Stromlo. Fortunately it was essentially complete.

He did indeed have it backed up off-site, and in my admittedly not (yet) vast experience it is quite unusual for an astronomy project to not be backed up in multiple locations fairly frequently. The data cost rather a lot to produce, and the chances of getting funding to repeat the same observations are slim, if repeating them is even physically possible.

The biggest loss at Stromlo, both from a monetary and a research standpoint, may have been the instrument lab, which was first-rate. They had just finished an instrument for one of the Gemini North telescopes- the $5M Near-Infrared Imaging Spectrograph- and had a contract to build an even better one for Gemini South about to start. A rough day for astronomy.

I'm sorry about your loss, but...

[Tofino]

You spent $1300 at a place that said "all sales final"? You should read up on a nice man named P.T. Barnum.

Re:I'm sorry about your loss, but...

[dcuny]

This got an +4, Insightful?

No insult to the original poster, (who didn't apply the moderation points), but this moderation thing is beyond me. +5 Funny I can understand.

Anyhoo, as another poster pointed out (making me -1, Redundant), misrepresentation is fraudulent. Quite often, your local laws may trump whatever boilerplate they throw at you.

If it were my Mom, I know she'd get her money back, no matter what the fine print said. People like her make me glad I don't work in retail.

Re:I'm sorry about your loss, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

misrepresentation is fraudulent

I'm not sure what you are all worked up about. It plainly says clear as day, NO RETURNS ACCEPTED. What the hell happened to PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY??

Re:I'm sorry about your loss, but...

[nursedave]

They may not have to actually accept the return, but if they lied on their advertisement of the product, you most certainly can get your money back (or attempt it - if they file bankruptcy, you're out).

Re:I'm sorry about your loss, but...

[Afrosheen]

Don't ever bother trying to find out the logic behind moderation, and for god's sake never post about it. It's a guaranteed -1 offtopic every time.

In the DotSlash alternate universe

[The Bungi]

A post like

If you tilted it, it hung. I gave up after a dozen reboots.

... would be followed by the now ubiquitous and much-cliche'd "well, it's Windoze, by M$. what did you expected?? HAHAHA, OMFG!!! LInux ROXORZ" comment.

But, it's running Linux, so it must be the hardware. Yeah, it's probably the hardware.

Re:In the DotSlash alternate universe

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, I was going to say something about him getting a mislabeled Etch-A-Sketch.

Re:In the DotSlash alternate universe

[snak0rific]

maybe Microsoft made the hardware?

Re:In the DotSlash alternate universe

[jaxle]

Well how could the software be responsible for crashing when the device is tilted? It is crappy hardware...

w00t, score one for the linux team!

Re:In the DotSlash alternate universe

[mmol_6453]

Weren't tablet PCs supposed to change the geometry from portrait to landscape (and back) when the display was tilted in the appropriate direction?

Sounds like buggy X drivers, to me. My laptop resizes the geometry fine when I switch from the LCD display to the external VGA port.

Re:In the DotSlash alternate universe

[Knife_Edge]

Probably, in the real universe. Mac OS X and Linux are both stable enough that if anything serious happens, like an out and out crash or freeze, I take this as a sign of a hardware problem. I have not been proven wrong yet. Unfortunately - it is annoying when a hard disk fails or something else breaks, but hardly the fault of the OS.

My experience with Windows effectively ended years ago, but crashes requiring reboots were common then due to problems with the software. I hear they still happen, which is inexcusable. Disgusting software errors never happen on Mac OS X or Linux in my experience, but if the hardware breaks, that can still cause problems.

Re:In the DotSlash alternate universe

[The Bungi]

My experience with Windows effectively ended years ago

Define "years ago". As in Windows 3.1? Windows 95? Personally I use Windows 2000 and I've experienced just one or two irrecoverable crashes, mainly due to a) buggy Creative drivers, and; b) crappy Creative drivers.

Disgusting software errors never happen on Mac OS X or Linux in my experience

They do happen in Linux and BSD, as well as in Windows 2000 and XP, essentially because the people who write them (and write software for them) are not and will never be perfect. The OS can compensate only to a certain extent.

So this must be an alternate alternate universe you hang out in.

but if the hardware breaks, that can still cause problems

Yeah, no kidding. But if I was to take your post seriously I'd probably be suckered into thinking that Linux and OS X can recover gracefully from a catastrophic hardware error. I nearly fell for it!

Re:In the DotSlash alternate universe

[mmol_6453]

Ever heard of a kernel panic?

Re:In the DotSlash alternate universe

[rick-o]

Ever heard of a kernel panic?

You mean they're for real?

Re:In the DotSlash alternate universe

[mmol_6453]

Explorer GPs all the time where I work, and, when I ran Windows 95B five years ago, the DLL in charge of the display (not the monitor, or the video card) got corrupted.

And then there's that "The system has become either busy or unstable. Press any key to continue, or press Ctrl-Alt-Del again to reboot." (tm) I got an hour ago on this machine I'm using. (98 SE at a college campus)

And if you say the "system has become either busy or unstable" error is an understandable result of a poorly written program (I was running Netscape 4.7), then I'd like to point out that in a properly multitasking environment (like any UNIX-based system), you can kill any process, right up to the one stuck in an infinite loop, therefore taking 99.99% of my 200MHz computer's CPU time.

As for catastrophic hardware failures, I lost a hard drive without the kernel panicking. I'd like to see WinME survive a non-primary harddrive death without going down.

(end rant)

Re:In the DotSlash alternate universe

[mmol_6453]

Had it happen a month ago. Tried install off a rescue disk, but I told it to load the root fs off an unformatted disk. :)

Re:In the DotSlash alternate universe

[Anonymous Hack]

And if you say the "system has become either busy or unstable" error is an understandable result of a poorly written program (I was running Netscape 4.7), then I'd like to point out that in a properly multitasking environment (like any UNIX-based system), you can kill any process, right up to the one stuck in an infinite loop, therefore taking 99.99% of my 200MHz computer's CPU time.

I know this might seem odd, but i consider this a feature, not a bug. If you want proper multi-tasking, use NT - it's been around since at least 1995. In NT/2000/XP you can invariably kill the process and keep going. In 95/98/ME, there's no hardware abstraction layer, and there's not much stopping an application calling hard-wired DOS interrupts or randomly writing to memory about the place. I play DOS games on my ME box regularly, and i know for a fact many of them don't work on the NT series. This is a feature. Noone in their right mind uses the 95 series for anything other than home or legacy (DOS) use - offices, developers, stability-freaks they've all been running NT on the desktop for years.

Re:In the DotSlash alternate universe

[the_real_tigga]

> >Ever heard of a kernel panic?

> You mean they're for real?

Well, next time you configure your kernel remember to make IDE support modular, and dont use initrd. Alternatively, or if you use SCSI, leave out that useless "ext2 filesystem support".

Watch the panic.

Other nice things include removing /dev/null and replacing it with a regular -r--r--r-- file. (won't panic, but won't boot either, and rather hard to track down....).

Re:In the DotSlash alternate universe

[mmol_6453]

I was pointing out the advantages of a properly multitasking system. I've rarely used NT/2K/XP, but I've been told the NT series does it right.

I know this is generalizing, but it does seem to display a continuing trend of stability, one way or another.

Out of curiosity, is there any reason they can't just go through their source code, line by line, looking for potential buffer overflows? I know they announced one recently, but I would think that that process would turn up more results more frequently.

Re:In the DotSlash alternate universe

[Anonymous Hack]

Out of curiosity, is there any reason they can't just go through their source code, line by line, looking for potential buffer overflows?

Yes. Because this has nothing to do with buffer overflows in the Windows API. If a piece of application code starts wandering around directly accessing hardware and calling interrupts for breakfast, lunch and dinner (like all DOS games, many DOS apps and a few Windows apps do) there is nothing Windows 9x can do. Windows sits on top of DOS as an application. Because DOS doesn't multitask, it doesn't have any sense of managing memory or resources for each application. This means any Windows applications have to exclusively call the Windows API, which Windows then translates all back into DOS interrupts so DOS can do its thing. It's pretty fookin' clever if you think about it, but on the other hand, it does introduce a lot of instability - doing multitasking and multithreading and so on in userland instead of the kernel. But that's what you get for running 9x. NT is completely different and doesn't have these problems, and seriously, Windows crashing can't have bothered you THAT much or you would've tried NT by now.

Re:In the DotSlash alternate universe

[The Bungi]

What can I say but get a real OS =)

Win9x and ME are consumer-oriented pieces of crap. Windows 2000 is the best thing that has come out of Redmond, period.

Re:In the DotSlash alternate universe

[stinky wizzleteats]

In NT/2000/XP you can invariably kill the process and keep going.

Factually incorrect, sir. Based on my experience, you have about a 30% better chance of getting your computer back if you run 2000 vs. 9x. Hardly invariable.

There is also the little problem of progressive entropy. Anyone who runs windows regularly (including 2000) knows that every six or so months, the thing is just going to go loopy, and the only solution is to format the hard drive and reinstall. This is unheard of with Linux. I've used Linux since 1998, and I've seen two X crashes in that time. In both cases, the crash didn't lock the operating system. The only kernel panic I've heard of was related to the horrible death of a RAID controller, but I wasn't there, so I can't personally verify that kernel panics actually happen :).

Re:In the DotSlash alternate universe

[Anonymous Hack]

Sir, you are smoking crack. I had a Win98 installation that ran for nigh on four years before i sold the PC - i never had to reinstall, and it barely ever crashed either. My current WinME installation has been running for at least six months with no problems, in spite of my installing various DOS-specific and Win2000-specific code onto it (Hacking Windows Is Fun(tm)). The only time it crashes is when i run said DOS-specific code, and i've already spoken about that. (Certain old games need all kinds of voodoo to get them working.)

My XP installation at work has run sweet for a year and never crashed, ever. Previously i tried running Linux on the desktop at work and X crashed repeatedly, sometimes to the point where i couldn't even switch to a terminal to kill the process. In my experience Linux MORE unstable than NT for desktop apps, though i would agree for the server it's a lot smoother (not needing to reboot as often is a Godsend). When it comes to GUIs, the whole "Linux is more stable" argument really goes out the window. Pun intended.

Re:In the DotSlash alternate universe

[stinky wizzleteats]

Sir, you are smoking crack.

Uh, well, no, actually, I'm not. We could trade unsubstantiated personal anecdotes until we're blue in the face, but from my experience working on PCs to my systems integration work to my involvement on several large implementation projects to my experience as an MIS manager at a large law firm, I've been personally responsible for the operation of untold tens of thousands of computers running Windows (3x-2000). My statements of Windows' legendary instability derive directly from that experience. It's one thing to shoot your mouth off on slashdot about a technology or operating system; quite another to develop a workstation image plan to mitigate the staggering instability of said technology and have your job depend on how appropriately designed and well executed that plan is.

In short, I've been in the position of putting my money where my mouth is with regard to Windows, and my professional advice has served both myself and my customers well - backup often, and know where your reinstall discs are!

Or did you think that the BSOD is a cultural meme because of widespread socioeconomic envy toward Bill Gates?

Re:In the DotSlash alternate universe

[The Bungi]

It's one thing to shoot your mouth off on slashdot about a technology or operating system; quite another to develop a workstation image plan to mitigate the staggering instability of said technology and have your job depend on how appropriately designed and well executed that plan is.

I guess we'll just have to take your word on this, eh?

Or did you think that the BSOD is a cultural meme because of widespread socioeconomic envy toward Bill Gates?

Kudos for getting all that into a single sentence.

Re:In the DotSlash alternate universe

[Anonymous Coward]

"Because DOS doesn't multitask, it doesn't have any sense of managing memory or resources for each application"

The important context is, as you said, this is a feature.

In the early 90s, both OS/2 and NT were rejected by users because of the lack of DOS and driver compatibility. So MS hacked together a system to support DOS-style hardware access with OS2/NT-style APIs.

Result was Windows 95, wildly successful. Shipped with a list of officially supported DOS drivers with file-modified dates going back to 1983.

The tragicomedy was that NT was pretty much "ready" in 1996, but didn't ship on consumer machines until 2002.

Re:In the DotSlash alternate universe

[_Sprocket_]

Windows 2000 is the best thing that has come out of Redmond, period.

I have to agree.

I have a fairly healthy dislike for Microsoft and many of its products (based on both personal and professional experience - I used to be quite a Microsoft cheerleader). However, I do see Win2K as something Microsoft finally did right (nigling criticisms aside). If I have to use Windows (and I occasionally do), its Win2k.

Too bad they're moving away from it.

Re:In the DotSlash alternate universe

[Afrosheen]

Bah, for every fantasy Windows install like this guy's, there are hundreds of thousands of disasters. If Windows worked as well for everyone as it did for you, linux wouldn't be anywhere near as popular as it is now. Consider yourself blessed, lucky, or magical, because your experience is truly one in a million.

Re:In the DotSlash alternate universe

[Anonymous Hack]

Do you really think most people use Linux for the sole reason that it crashes less than Windows? I think most people use Linux (on the desktop) because they are interested in the structure of an operating system and like having the opportunity to tweak it at the source level. Some people use Linux because they agree with its ideals and not with Microsoft's. Some people use Linux because it comes with free development tools. Some people use Linux because it doesn't cost them anything to upgrade. Some people use Linux because it's "cool". There are millions of reasons people use Linux, and (in my opinion) it being "more stable than Windows" is probably the least important. I'm sure they see it as a bonus, but i doubt it was the original reason they switched in the first place.

Re:In the DotSlash alternate universe

[Afrosheen]

I don't think it's the sole reason people *use* linux, but it's probably one of the biggest reasons people *try* linux. Since there are no hard numbers it's all speculation anyway, but from my experience with linux and with others who have tried it, getting away from Windows instability/frustration factor has always been the primary motivator. Your mileage, and that of others, will vary.

Re:In the DotSlash alternate universe

[kubrick]

Personally I use Windows 2000 and I've experienced just one or two irrecoverable crashes, mainly due to a) buggy Creative drivers, and; b) crappy Creative drivers.

Maybe you can answer a question for me then. :) I've just installed Win2K Pro (booting alongside Debian and Win98, which had been there for the games). I've updated all of the drivers for the rest of my hardware, but my experience with Creative's Win98 drivers was extremely poor, and Win2K already includes basic drivers for the SBLive. Should I bother with newer drivers, or just leave well enough alone? Any particular driver versions to look for?

[Hey... instead of 'Ask Slashdot', now it's just 'Ask a Slashdot user' :)]

Re:In the DotSlash alternate universe

[The Bungi]

Creative's drivers have been getting better. My bad experience goes back to the first few versions of the drivers they released for W2K (under the new driver model), which took them a while to get just right. WRT the W98 drivers, to be honest I had far less problems but then again I was using an SBLive! card on that machine (we're talking three years ago) and the cards on my two W2K boxes are both Audigy Platinum.

You can go with the basic drivers that ship with the OS, but in my experience they're rather subpar compared with the Creative ones. Output capabilities really do change, especially if you're using EAX or 5.1. Assuming your machine is fine, etc. you should be able to download the latest and greatest from here depending on whether you have the Live! or the Live! basic and have everything work OK. If anything, make sure you DO NOT install the OS drivers over the OEM ones - the other way around should work (if you already did).

[Hey... instead of 'Ask Slashdot', now it's just 'Ask a Slashdot user' :)]

*grin*. You know, if you ever need more help, head out to news://msnews.microsoft.com/, subscribe to the OS-specific newsgroups and ask around. Look for the MVP folks in there. You won't be disappointed.

Re:In the DotSlash alternate universe

[minektur]

Actually, hardware is about the only good thing Microsoft makes -- their mice are actually quite good, and their keyboards dont suck _too_ bad.

Re:In the DotSlash alternate universe

[Anonymous Coward]

On a different machine, so posting anon... thanks! :)

My Windows 98 experiences were that everything was fine once I found exactly the right options, BIOS and driver versions and a third-party PCI patch, but apparently all Athlon boards with Via chipsets were pretty unstable in Win98 at the time. FWIW, Win2K is having a much happier time on the same machine... my only problem now is getting LILO setup properly to access all three OSes, which I think I should be able to do when I get home, as I've just been Googling on that.

And no, I've left well enough alone with the SBLive! Value so far -- didn't install the OEM drivers for Win2K, as the ones shipped with the card were pretty bad on 98. Probably the 2K drivers on that disc are simultaneous with the ones that you had bad experiences with -- but I'll get the newer ones and install those. Thanks for the assurance, and the pointer to the newsgroups... :)

kubrick

Re:In the DotSlash alternate universe

[iggymanz]

yup, I've *heard* of them on Linux, but haven't seen one yet in five years. On SunOS and Solaris, I've *had* them caused by SCSI problems and bad memory (which could kill any OS, of course).

I do run custom kernels of stable releases after waiting about 3 weeks to see if they're dangerous. 2.4.20 has been sweet thus far ;)

Hilarious

[Anonymous Coward]

"Mandrake is trying to prove it's not dead yet. Yesterday[Note: the 19th, that is], they released Beta 2 of Mandrake 9.1. You can get the 2 ISO images from the usual mirrors."

I'm sorry, but you gotta laugh. Mandrake is facing bancruptcy, And this guy is instructing everyone to download the iso's. That's just brilliant. :)

Yes, I know it's the betas, but everyone seems to think that this shit is just always gonna be free. Well, I found it humorous anyway. LOL.

Re:Hilarious

[Anonymous Coward]

Doesn't it always have to be free due to the license imposed on linux?

Re:Hilarious

[Anonymous Coward]

He's instructing people to download ISO's of the beta version. It isn't for sale anyway and needs people to download and test it.

Re:Hilarious

[dcuny]

As you pointed out yourself, they're betas. You can't buy them. From the Mandrake site:

• January 18th, 2003 - Mandrake Linux 9.1 Beta 2 is ready for download and testing. Two brand-spankin' new ISO images are now available at the usual download locations. Everyone is invited to participate as a beta tester and report any bugs to BugZilla.

Let's see... I insulted someone, missed the point, and posted redundant links. Yep, just about the perfect Slashdot post.

Re:Hilarious

[Anonymous Coward]

"but everyone seems to think that this shit is just always gonna be free."

Well Debian always will be free. And once it catches up to Mandrake and Redhat in ease of use it won't really matter if the rest of the distros cost money/become semi-proprietary, now will it?

Re:Hilarious

[Anonymous Coward]

no

Re:Hilarious

[mabinogi]

Always free, not always zero cost.

As long as you can get the source for no more than the cost of distribution, they can charge anything they like for the binaries....

Re:Hilarious

[Anonymous Coward]

Mandrake is a GPL distribution, so no.

They can charge anything they want for the binaries, but they have to (basically) give the source with it, and under the GPL those people can distribute the code.

Re:Hilarious

[Phroggy]

Um, download the isos of the beta, so you can test it and give feedback, and then go buy the boxed retail copy when it comes out?

Re:Hilarious

[Anonymous Coward]

Well Debian always will be free. And once it catches up to Mandrake and Redhat in ease of use it won't really matter if the rest of the distros cost money/become semi-proprietary, now will it?

Don't be so sure. HP is currently in talks with some of the top ranking members of the Debian community to turn their efforts soley to producing a HP-branded version of Linux. Large chunks of the Debian specific source code, such as apt, will be subtly re-written, and re-licensed under a new HP-approved scheme which will make the source available only to pre-approved members of their special developer's program. HP is reputed to be totally dissatisfied with the progress of the Debian project in general (which was largely responsible for Bruce Peren's forced departure from the company), and there is now a committed group of executives within the company seeking to destroy the long-term feasibility of the project by selectively poaching key organizing community members. Due to our close customer relationship with HP (we buy several million $$$s worth of equipment and services each quarter from HP), we have been privy to some of these amazing plans (this was especially the case after a few of our younger and more naive sysadmin staff expressed interest to a senior HP sales rep about running Debian on some new blades we were testing from HP). I don't know if they can pull it off, but a lot of thought has gone into this, and it is already underway. Look for important Debian developers to quietly slide off the mailing lists in the near future, and within 18 months a new HP distro to emerge.

Re:Hilarious

[deno]

What's the problem?

Everyone who likes the distro is welcome to join the MadnrakeClub, and I don't see why people should not download the beta anyway.

Re:Hilarious

[bujoojoo]

Nope. Not quite:

"IN SOVIET RUSSIA, betas download you!"

Sorry, couldn't resist...

Re:Hilarious

[Anonymous Coward]

The only way Debian is going to catch up is if Mandrake and Red Hat both go bankrupt. Hell Debian's release cycle is so slow their version numbers should be counting backwards.

You might still be able to return it...

[nweaver]

If the product was misrepresented (used instead of new, software not really applied etc), you can return it and, if not, sue in small claims court as such behavior is fradulent.

Considering the price, you may want to do that.

Re:You might still be able to return it...

[TClevenger]

Better yet, write them a firm letter explaining the problem and demanding a refund. Give them a one week deadline to respond by telephone or email. Send it return receipt requested.

If they don't provide a prompt refund, dispute the charge with your credit card company. Provide a copy of the letter, return receipt and any other correspondence. They will find in your favor and deduct from the merchant's bank account. (If the merchant doesn't have the funds, then the merchant's acquiring bank will be forced to pay.) According to VISA/Mastercard regulations, there is no such thing as "All sales final", especially with deceptive advertising.

Didn't pay with a credit card? D'oh! (ALWAYS use a credit card. It's your only protection.)

Re:You might still be able to return it...

[mmol_6453]

I don't know much about professional mail, but wouldn't it be better if you sent the letter as verified mail? I'm not sure they're legally required to send a return receipt.

Re:You might still be able to return it...

[Zathrus]

ALWAYS use a credit card. It's your only protection

Be aware, however, that if you buy goods from a foreign country (overseas or not) all sales are final. Federal law does not apply and your credit card company won't help you -- frankly, if they refunded you the money they would be out the cash because there's no way for them to reclaim it. (I note that Microsono is incorporated in Delaware and located in California, so it shouldn't be an issue in this case).

And to the sibling poster - return receipt requested is an additional service on top of certified mail, which is what you were suggesting in the first place.

Excellent advice though. Hopefully richardbondi will follow it.

Re:You might still be able to return it...

[morgajel]

I had a similar situation with my laptop.
there are plenty of people you can talk to screw with scammers. all else fails, the state attorney general is happy to get involved or get you on the right track, as is the better business bureau.

In my case, I lucked out- I contacted the people who leased the tradeshow space to them and they threated to wipe them off the circuit if I didn't get a full refund:)

Re:You might still be able to return it...

[Anonymous Coward]

if all else fails, sell it on eBay

Don't forget the Housotn story

[Zeinfeld]

If we are doing slashback lets not forget that yesterdays triumph of the foes of Microsoft in Houston has turned out to be a sordid little story of a $9.5 million contract going to a local firm after a rigged bidding process.

Slashdot got the sequence of events wrong. It was not Microsoft lost contract, complained. The real sequence was only one company bid on the contract. People asked why the city was spemding so much money on a product nobody had ever heard of to be installed in public libraries. Then there was an investigation in which all the bidders thought that the bid had been rigged so that only IAT could win.

So really the story has nothing to do with Microsoft. It is simply business as usual for Enron city.

Re:Don't forget the Housotn story

[mmol_6453]

According to a USA Today today, it went like this:

1. Houston looks at upgrading their systems.
2. Microsoft finds out they're considering Linux, threatens to audit them.
3. Microsoft sends them an invoice for several hundred thousand dollars in unpaid license.
4. Houston produces paperwork and documentation proving every copy of every piece of software is paid for.
5. Microsoft threatens legal charges for rigged bidding.
6. Houston says, "You made up our minds for us," and went with Linux.
   

Re:Don't forget the Housotn story

[Zeinfeld]

According to a USA Today today, it went like this:

Houston looks at upgrading their systems.

If you read the OIG inspectors report into the deal you will see that USA Today got it wrong from the very start. The deal had nothing to do with upgrading existing systems. The plan was to 'bridge the digital divide' by somehow giving Houston residents free access to the hosted desktop applications via public libraries. The whole scheme was a boondoggle from the start.

The bit about 'upgrading the systems' was not actually mentioned in the RFP. That only came in later when it was asserted that the software would save the City $1.6 million. Unfortunately Piper gave absolutely no indication as to how the figure was arrived at. None of the departments that might make use of the software were actually consulted so it is not very likely that they will be using the system.

Microsoft threatens legal charges for rigged bidding.

Again the chronology is wrong. The questions started after Piper, the CIO who had set the deal up left for another job weeks after the contracxt went through. The complaints about the rigged bidding came from a Houston councilor, Bruce Tatro who thought the scheme looked like a boondoggle. The actual investigation was started by a complaint from Brenda Flores after a Houston Chronicle article.

The investigation was instigated by Tatro, not Microsoft. The only connection Microsoft had to the investigation was that the investigators interviewed the Microsoft salesman. Incidentaly the investigation found that the Microsoft sales person had been misled but found the charge of lying 'not sustained' as they claimed it could not be proved that the misleading was deliberate.

If you read the other vendors comments in the report you will find statements like 'why is the city spending $9.5 million to replace an existing exchange implementation with an untried product nobody has ever heard of'. The Microsoft salesperson pointed out that Yahoo and Hotmail provide hosted services for email and instant messaging for free.

Houston says, "You made up our minds for us," and went with Linux

The deal had nothing to do with Linux. The services are hosted on Microsoft Windows 2000 Datacenter edition. The deal was about using 'open source' as smoke to cover a scam that might well end up costing the city of Enron resident's $9.5 million. The politicians bought into the scam because they were conned into believing it would be 'a political win for your mayor' to quote correspondence between the conspirators.

Piper is currently facing fraud charges over the alleged theft of $294,000 from a previous employer.

Re:Don't forget the Housotn story

[fermion]

I did not follow this story closesly, but what I do know is that a lot of people in Houston now have access to a computer through the public library. I also know that the BSA can exact a steep penalty for any software piracy, penalties that could reach into the millions. I do not think that it is reasonable to expose the city to that liability.

What i also know is that the model promoted by the BSA and MS is unworkable for widely distributed PCs. They would want the city to 100% liable for any unlicensed software that may be found on your machine. They want the right to have root access to all your machines, have at will acess to your technicians, and have the ability to arbitrarily inconvience any of your employees at any time. I have seen it.

Re:Don't forget the Housotn story

[The J Kid]

Don't forget:

7. Microsoft says: "Houston we have a problem."

mandrake review (AC to avoid karma factor)

[Anonymous Coward]

The review of Mandrake 9.1 beta 1 went online a few days ago, and a few hours later MandrakeSoft was releasing beta 2. So here we go again! What's changed? What's fixed? What's added?

The first good news is that this beta 2 comes on two CDs, so there is a lot more stuff to be tested. I have also received some feedback on the review of beta 1 which had some shortcomings, and hopefully I can do better this time. Among other things I am going to provide some advice for those that want to try beta 2 on their own Linux box.

However, I would like to stick to some guidelines I have chosen for the first review: I am not going to compare this beta to any other distribution (RedHat or SuSE or Gentoo or Debian or whatever...), and I am going to concentrate on "the desktop experience". And by the way, this beta 2 includes KSnapshot, so I was able to add some more eye-candy. Enjoy!

[Screenshot 1: Mandrake 9.1 beta 2 includes KSnapshot.]

Installing beta 2
Installation of beta 2 is not too difficult if you already have an existing Linux installation and some means of burning your own CDs:

Prepare an empty partition on your hard disk (minimum of 2GB, preferably 4GB).
Download the two ISO images from the nearest mirror (a list of mirrors can be found here).
Check that the images are correctly downloaded by running the md5sum checksum program and comparing the checksums to those in the file md5sums.9.1beta2.asc which can also be found on the mirrors.
This beta 2 requires two blank 650MB CD-Rs or CD-RWs. I am using CD-RWs which are re-usable, since I don't want to keep wasting CD-Rs as I follow Mandrake's development cycle for 9.1. I noticed that Mandrake has switched from the 700MB CDs that they used in 9.0 and 9.1 beta 1 to 650MB CDs. That's a good thing, IMHO, because many users complained about not being able or having problems to burn 700MB CDs. MandrakeSoft is listening to its user community, apparently.
After burning the two CDs, there is just one more step before beginning the install: make a boot disk with your favorite bootloader (LILO or Grub - IMHO Grub is more flexible). Unfortunately beta 2, just like beta 1, overwrites your previous boot configuration. You have been warned...
Now insert CD1 in your CD-ROM drive, configure your BIOS to boot from the CD, and restart. If you are still with me at this point you should have the familiar Mandrake Boot screen on your monitor.

The Installation Program
The installation program has improved from beta 1 and looks (and works) better now, but there are still some bugs as I found them in the previous beta: the USB wheel mouse configuration problem is still there (keyboard blinks, mouse freezes and the computer has to be reset), there is no indication of what stage of the installation is going on, and individual package selection is disabled. Also clicking on the "Previous" button at any point during the installation does not work, and there is no choice of bootloader or even to disable LILO installation.

Other than that, XFdrake now generates a correct XFree86Config-4 file (I am still using my customized 9.0 XFree86 configuration file, though). Also information and links to various MandrakeSoft URLs are displayed on the screen during package installation, and the program asks for the second CD when it's finished installing the packages on the first CD.

I assume that with one or two more betas the MandrakeSoft development team should have the installation program relatively bug-free, but we are not there yet. This is entirely normal as we are still in the early beta stages of the development cycle.

[Screenshot 2: Mozilla 1.3a in all its beauty. Even though it is alpha-status, it works quite well in Mandrake 9.1 beta 2.]

New and still missing packages
After the installation (which took longer this time, about 18 minutes) and a reboot, I found that beta 2 had installed both KOffice 1.2.1 and OpenOffice 1.0.2, as well as many packages that were missing in beta 1. Grip is there, and so are most graphics and sound packages.

[Screenshot 3: Gimp2.jpg: GTK+ apps like Grip and Gimp work well with KDE 3.1.]

There is also a considerable change in the number of included packages in the "Networking" menu, among other things Galeon and Quanta Plus. And at this stage I got my first crash in this beta 2: opening Quanta Plus caused the machine to thrash for a moment and then I found myself at the KDM login again. Thanks to KWord's autosave I could immediately resume my work. It's good to see that this feature is enabled by default.

So what is still missing?

Strangely enough mcserv-4.5.55 is on CD2 but mc-4.5.55 (Midnight Commander) is nowhere to be found.
Most games are still missing, although Mandrake has included a few games and toy apps in this beta 2. KDE games are notably absent.
KDevelop isn't there. I would like to see both 2.1.4 and 3.0 alpha 3 included with 9.1.
Also the kernel 2.4.21.pre3 source package is missing. Now I can do without the games, but the kernel source is quite essential, specially for beta testing.
Lmsensors related packages are also missing, including the initscripts.
The choice of screensavers and backgrounds is still limited at this point.

OK, I can already hear some people saying: "But you can get all those missing packages in the Cooker directory on any of the Mandrake mirrors!" I know that, and it's not the point. Actually I could get all the sources from the author's websites and compile them myself if I really wanted to be on the "bleeding edge". The point is to check how complete this beta 2 is, and not how I can improve it by mixing packages from the beta 2 and the Cooker directories.

Some people will also say: "These are all available on KDE-Look.org!". Sure enough, and I can assure you that I regularly check KDE-Look.org. However, it would be nice if Mandrake could include a better choice of icons, sound themes, color themes, splash screens, screensavers and screen backgrounds than their present default ones, and combine all these aesthetic elements in a distinctive theme.

[Screenshot 4: Tabs are a nifty new feature in Konqueror in KDE 3.1.]

Miscellaneous and odd things

Fonts and font handling

Mandrake has included a few fonts with quite strange names in this beta 2 (I am not quite familiar with "Estrangelo Nisibin" or "East Syriac Adiabene"). And one can still see some problems with font hinting (the spacing between characters) in general. These issues can be fixed by surfing on the Web and downloading the appropriate packages.

[Screenshot 5: KWord (word processor) and KGhostView (a PS and PDF viewer) both make use of anti-aliased fonts.]

As noted previously, fonts are handled much better in these 9.1 beta x releases compared to 9.0 final (what a difference KGhostView with antialiased fonts makes!), but it would be nice if Mandrake could come up with a better default font setup before 9.1 final.

CD-RW drive detection

One thing I found was great with 9.0 is that it could properly detect and configure my kernel to use my CD-Read/Write ATA drive. Sure enough, 9.1 beta 1 and beta 2 can do the same, but unfortunately both insist on also configuring my CD-ROM drive with SCSI emulation (/dev/scd1), while at the same time the fstab file refers to its ATA designation (/dev/hdd). That's a small but annoying setup bug.

UDMA interface configuration

Mandrake 9.1 beta 2 correctly configured all my drives for UDMA operation. Perfect score on that one.

Cursor shadow

A semi-transparent cursor with shadow was enabled by default in 9.1 beta 1 and 2, but I find this feature slightly distracting.

KCalc still missing

This one is weird: why is the GNOME Calculator included, but KCalc still missing?

Conclusion

So, is this beta 2 a significant improvement in relation to beta 1? My answer is yes, without any doubt. This beta 2 is still not for Linux beginners, it still has a few annoying bugs (but no show-stoppers) and quirks, and some essential packages are still missing (where is my kernel source?). But if MandrakeSoft can keep up with this rate of development, by beta 3 or 4 they could start concentrating on the eye-candy and their final 9.1 release would then be terrific.

I am still reluctant to erase my Mandrake 9.0 configuration and switch over, but my fingers are getting twitchy...

9.1 beta 2 compared to beta 1 - pros and cons

Pros:

Comes on two 650MB CDs
Improved installation (no more real show-stopper bugs)
Many more packages included
Latest stable versions of KOffice (1.2.1) and OpenOffice (1.0.2) are very usable

Cons:

None compared to beta 1

Wishlist for beta 3:

CD3 with the packages that are still missing (don't forget that kernel source, please)
More fixes to the installation routine
Choice of Grub in the installation routine, and an option to keep the previous Grub configuration file

Copyright Notice

Copyright (C) 2003 Andrew D. Balsa
Verbatim copying and distribution of this article is permitted in any medium, provided this copyright notice is preserved.

Re:Mt Stromlo Research - oops

[Wench]

Sorry, did that post change while I was writing my reply? URL is now in story. Sorry for duplication. D'oh!

Re:Bruce Perens, still sucking after all these yea

[Xeger]

Wow...after such a superlative exposition of alternative schlong slang, the only question remaining to be asked is:

Did that qualify as a troll, or flamebait?

how come you guys never post slashdot news?

[Anonymous Coward]

i think it was a pretty big change moving over to this new percentage totals of moderated comments.

And it looks like you guys can't even get it to work right, and still push it out the door on us.

Will any slashdot editor make any comment or update about these changes to its readers??

BTW: This is not offtopic, this is slashback, as appropriate a place to mention this as it gets since slashdot hates meta stories.

All Sales are Final

[duffbeer703]

Does not jive with the warranty. A sale is either final or not final.

If you have a problem with this device, contact your friendly credit-card issuer to dispute the charge or take them to small claims court.

or talk to your credit card company

[renard]

You did charge it to your credit card, didn't you? Under the Fair Credit Billing Act you are entitled to a refund from your credit card company if the product was not as represented, and you complain (dispute the charges) within 60 days of receiving the billing statement that had the bogus charge.

Many credit card companies also have "buyer protection" plans which supplement this (mandatory) coverage.

Don't give up yet!

-renard

Consumers Guarantee Act

[Zaffle]

I don't know about in the States, or whereever the user is posting from, but in NZ we have a Consumers Guarantee Act that states that consumers have a 7 day right of return for all products purchased that are (summerizing) not what they were advertised to be.

So if you purchased a crystal vase from XYZ Widgets and they shipped you a photocopy of a picture of one, with a note saying all sales are final, or if they shipped a broken one with a note that all sales are final, or if they claimed it was a new one, and it was 2nd hand, you return it to them, with a note that says "all refunds are final, jerks" and report them to the commerce commission.

Now surely the US has to have something similar there, doesn't it?

(I am not a lawyer, but I'd like to play one on TV).

Since the user in question is posting from a .edu address, maybe he could consult a professor of law at whatever university he attends?

Re:Consumers Guarantee Act

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, it's a pretty well thought out piece of legislation.. Here is another description. It says that the goods have to match their description etc. Plus, there is also the older Sale of Goods act that says (essentially)

1. Goods must be of merchantable quality
2. Goods must be fit for the purpose provided

. Then there is the Fair Trading act which outlaws 'bait and switch' and various other dubious practices.

Re:Consumers Guarantee Act

[CliffH]

Being an American living in NZ, I find the law over here (NZ) to be more to the point but, in essence, it's the same in states (at least in WV). But, as everyone has been saying, paying with a credit card is your safest bet.

Re:Consumers Guarantee Act

[Anonymous Coward]

Since the user in question is posting from a .edu address, maybe he could consult a professor of law at whatever university he attends?

My university doesn't have a law department, you insensitive clod!

Re:Consumers Guarantee Act

[bujoojoo]

Have you ever returned something in this manner? Are the vendors really 'afraid' of the Commerce Commission? Or is it more like the a version of the Better Business Bureau - an agency that keeps lists of 'bad' businesses that other consumers had problems with so maybe you shouldn't deal with them...

Please explain how in the MS universe...

[WotanKhan]

tilting a laptop causing hangs could be anything but a hardware problem? Get a clue please.

Re:Please explain how in the MS universe...

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't tell him to get a clue. Maybe some feature of the softare is to detect portrait/landscape, and that's crashing. Obviously if "tilting" is the only information you get, only the submitter has a clue.

Re:Please explain how in the MS universe...

[mmol_6453]

Not a laptop, a tablet PC. Difference being that (IIRC) tablet PCs are supposed to be able to adjust their display geometry (and orientation, come to think of it) when you tilt them one way or another.

Astronomical data

[glwillia]

Speaking as an astronomy student (who has been on several observing runs), SOP at Kitt Peak is to collect all the data from each run over the course of several nights, store it on the computer that controls the CCD (a SparcStation 5 at the Bok 90", in case you were wondering) and then when the run is over, the data is 1) scp'ed back to our main system at the university, and 2) backed up on tape (actually, this is done nightly). Hence, if we had a fire at Kitt Peak or Mt. Lemmon or some other nearby observatory, all the data would be safe (replacing the CCDs would be really freaking expensive, though).

Astronomers know all too well the value of a good backup--besides, the computers at the observatory itself are too busy/slow to do data reduction, necessitating the existence of off-site copies.

Re:Astronomical data

[astrobabe]

You know the whole backup thing at the 90 inch only works if you remember to bring tapes up with you (which I forget on a regular basis but you know I'm a closet blonde). I just sftp my data back to multiple computers back at Steward to take care of the problem :0 The KPNO system is very nice- the Save the Bits archive makes multiple tapes of the data that get stored in the 4 meter and down in town and data gets ftp'd down to one of the NOAO Tucson servers as well. So it's on hard drive in multiple places as well as on tape in multiple places as well. As to Stromlo- somebody brought down all the backup tapes to Canberra on Friday (the day before the fire) so most of the data was saved. Unfortunately though a lot of us astro people are going to suffer in the near future when DAT drives stop being the best way to store our data. . .hell I have a desk drawer of DAT and DLT tapes as well as CD ROMs with data right now!

Re:Astronomical data

[Ambush_Bug]

It's cool to see that so many astronomy grads read slashdot.... woo-hoo! I myself am a student at the Institute for Astronomy, University of Hawaii.... since our telescopes are on a different island, off-site backups are pretty much the default.
Re forgetting the tapes: Subaru & CFH are nice 'cause they have a stash in case you forget.

Anyhow, my condolences to my colleagues down under.

Re:Astronomical data

[astrobabe]

There's a bunch of astro people from Arizona who read- I'm just a misplaced Arizona person working for SIRTF at Caltech.

And as to the tapes- I shutter to think what will happen when SIRTF launches- one observation with MIPS pukes out 80 GB of raw and processed data plus masks. Downlinking all that data via the DSN is going to be a cow. Thankfully I'm applying to grad schools next year so I don't have to deal with it that much!

I'm glad people got out of Stromlo- news is that there was a visitor there from Canada who was asleep and had less than 5 minutes to haul out of there.

Re:Astronomical data

[jovlinger]

just as a ball-park figure, one run's worth of data is about 10**x Bytes?

Re:Astronomical data

[Anonymous Coward]

Mount Stromlo data ended up in the MDSS on the main ANU campus (http://anusf.anu.edu.au/MDSS/) so the digital stuff should be just dandy...

Re:Astronomical data

[astrobabe]

Depends which telescope. It's not unheard of now to have 10 or more GB by the end of a run with multi CCD camera these days.
I take images with boring small cameras so I get about 500 MB worth of data a night.
With MOSAIC on Kitt Peak (a 6 CCD system) the average night worth of data is about 13.5 GB. Too many nights and you need lots of tapes or lots of compression.

Re:Astronomical data

[Anonymous Coward]

Indeed there was an unfortunate individual that, according to another on the mountain that day, was not woken until the ceiling of his house was alight. I suggest that person now holds the land speed record.

Re:Astronomical data

[elliptical_boy]

This is why I bought a DVD-writer for my office machine. (Note that the VLT [the European Southern Observatories' Very Large Telescope http://www.hq.eso.org/outreach/info-events/ut1fl/] writes everything to DVD now.) I'm drowning in DAT (& Exabyte, if you remember those) tapes of 12 years of professional research, and needed a better backup solution...

Many of my colleagues have actually gone over to using RAID setups to backup their data, given the cheapness of hard drives now. But this isn't an effective backup solution if your machines melt, as could have been the case in the Stromlo fire.

Pity the poor folks who still use those exceptionally unreliable DLT tapes.

Re:Astronomical data

[glwillia]

You know the whole backup thing at the 90 inch only works if you remember to bring tapes up with you (which I forget on a regular basis but you know I'm a closet blonde). I just sftp my data back to multiple computers back at Steward to take care of the problem :0 The KPNO system is very nice- the Save the Bits archive makes multiple tapes of the data that get stored in the 4 meter and down in town and data gets ftp'd down to one of the NOAO Tucson servers as well. So it's on hard drive in multiple places as well as on tape in multiple places as well. As to Stromlo- somebody brought down all the backup tapes to Canberra on Friday (the day before the fire) so most of the data was saved. Unfortunately though a lot of us astro people are going to suffer in the near future when DAT drives stop being the best way to store our data. . .hell I have a desk drawer of DAT and DLT tapes as well as CD ROMs with data right now!

Heh, as an added bonus, Dennis will laugh at you if you forget the tapes. Of course, I just scp it to Jill's new gargantuan Linux box, my workstation at Steward, and my home computer, so that there's practically no danger of something bad happening to all copies (since the data directory on bokobs gets wiped at the end of each observing run). I've never used the 4 meter, but its method of data-saving does sound quite nice.

Oh, and I just back up everything to CD-R these days. Much more cost-effective than a tape drive for as little as I go observing.

Re:Astronomical data

[astrobabe]

Dennis doesn't need a reason to laugh at me (hmm almost blonde, klutzy girlfriend of Kris. . .not much need to try hard to make fun of me). Worse is that Mark (Wagner) and I always forget the tapes- I leave the tapes in town but normally he forgets the tapes at the 'scope. When did Jill get a new spiffy linux box? I didn't think she had one last month when I was back there.

Re:Astronomical data

[glwillia]

I don't think Dennis needs a reason to laugh at anyone--he'll find it (his irreverence is refreshing, although he behaves himself when Jill's in the control room). I don't know when she got one--last November, maybe? It is in one of those server-style cases, two CPUs, and two 20" monitors. It's very nice, even though I have yet to use it.

Obviously a hardware problem

[rmarll]

Only purchasable from www.microsono.com, where all sales are final.

You can call the company and they will happily repair or replace the unit for you. Assuming the product does actually work, you might get one back.

Customer Support
1 (888) STEPUP4 (783-7874) U.S. Only
support@stepupcomputing.com

GeForce FX

[kmac06]

Anyone know when the GeForce FX is scheduled to come out? I looked for it but couldn't find a release date/window

Trying to decide if I should buy the GeForce4 Ti4200 now or when the FX ships and ths price drops...

Re:GeForce FX

[Anonymous Coward]

February to early March (at worst). Considering this is the top end part, I don't think the 4200's will drop all that much.

Re:GeForce FX

[Forkenhoppen]

If you buy now, get the Ati 9700 instead. Between the Geforce4 Ti4200 and it, it's overall the better card. You'd probably be doing just as well if you got a 9500 instead..

The GeForce FX is going to be expensive when it comes out anyways. If you're going to buy now, you may as well get the top of the line one out there. I'll bet you anything that getting an Ati 9700 today will be ... well, it's going to be at least the same price as the GeForce FX will be a few months from now.

Don't expect the GeForce FX price to fall quickly, either; it's been in development for too long. If they're to recoup all their development money, they're going to need to keep it at introductory pricing a lot longer than they usually do. (Don't expect ATi's competition to make much of a dent in the NVidia part's price, either; there are so many NVidia fanboys out there that'll buy it regardless, it simply won't make sense to them to drop to compete for at least a quarter or two.)

Re:GeForce FX

[Dynedain]

The FX will start shipping in February.

Don't hold out for it...initially it will only ship on the Quadro line....the target price range for which are going to be $1200-$2000.

As such, the price on the Ti4200 probably won't drop all that much.

Did somebody say the secret word?

[Kaz Riprock]

Anton Nilsson, assistant editor in chief of Nordic Hardware writes, in contrast,

"...Still that doesn't make up a fair excuse in my opinion."

Ahem...you gangrenous basement dweller.

Re:Did somebody say the secret word?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody has ever HEARD of "Nordic Hardware", so it doesn't really matter if the interview was stolen. It deserved to be posted on Techspot all the time anyway. :-D

Nordic, I hereby give you permission to go out of business now. See you on fuckedcompany.com!

"Everybody backup now!"

[mmol_6453]

"Everybody backup now!"

I saw that, and fell out of my chair. (Which really bites, since I'm sitting behind a tall reception desk in a computer lab.)

Tablet Turkey = Table Turkey

[Shadow Wrought]

Anyone else read this as Table Turkey and wonder just what kind of story we had missed originally?

Re:Tablet Turkey = Table Turkey

[Tribe]

Actually, it says 'Tableturkey' which makes it even more mind bending.

Tilting Tablet PC

[dann0]

To the guy with the dodgy Tablet PC:

You need to edit /etc/kenetic.conf
You need to change this line:
tiltAction = "crash";
to
tiltAction = "none";

You may also like to change the line:
DropAction = "Break a bit off the corner";
to
DropAction = "She'll be 'right";

Why sould we listen to..

[Anonymous Coward]

Some troll with the name "trolls" spelled backwords?

Posted this comment as an ac to get us to fall for it and listen didn't you?

Stromlo fire. . .

[astrobabe]

What I think is the most impressive quote from the Stromlo emails I've seen lately: "The telescopes are all still "hanging" on their mounts, but are not recoverable. The 50" looks like it is parked, but the lower end of the mount is melted and the mirror is a pile of goo on the floor, the Yale lens is on the floor, and the 74" mirror is damaged far beyond repair. " The amount of heat needed to flash melt a 50" diameter piece of glass that was probably about a foot thick is impressive and ungodly at the same time. . .

Re:Stromlo fire. . .

[Anonymous Coward]

During the fire after the 1906 earthquake in San Francisco, furniture inside of brick houses burst into flames, even though the houses didn't burn.

It is amazing.

Re:Stromlo fire. . .

[Anonymous Coward]

wow - if I was one of the faculty I would've unscrewed those mirrors and took em before the fire reached the building :). Probably not that easy though.. pity..

Re:Stromlo fire. . .

[dragonsister]

I have another friend involved with facilities at Stromlo. He has described the process of making mirrors for telescopes such as these. The final polishing involves:
Setting up an interferometer to detect variations in the height of the surface at the sub-wavelength level;
Someone wearing silk gloves brushing lightly over the raised places on the mirror;
Coming back several hours later when the thermal effects have settled down, to repeat the process.

The mirror takes about a year to make. Most telescopes are three years from money to installation. My friend's company may get a telescope back on Stromlo as early as July, simply and solely because it was already coming, and the mirror is already made.

Anyway. The point I'm looking to make here is - it doesn't take much to ruin a telescope's mirror.

Photographs of the damage to the landscape, the buildings, and the telescopes were made available today, at http://www.mso.anu.edu.au/colless/StromloFire/. I find it interesting that the trees are all still standing - less only their leaves!

DragonSister

Japanese manufacturers back off proprietary OSes

[Anonymous Coward]

From EETimes (http://www.eet.com/sys/news/OEG20030123S0034) : "Japanese consumer electronics manufacturers are backing away from efforts to push proprietary operating systems into wider use and are turning instead to open-source OSes, specifically Linux. The retreat underlines the failure of proprietary OS strategies for consumer electronics."

I tried to submit it to /. but it got censored as usual, so here we go.

"All sales final" not

[MacAndrew]

"All sales final" *never* includes deception (esp. used v. new!). Talk to your credit card company first, the seller second, an attorney or small claims court third. (I should ask, is there any chance this was shipping damage? Talk to the shipping company.) Check with the BBB, file a complaint with the FTC and your AG, etc. Stress the implied warranties of fitness and merchantibility, etc., and ... good luck. By making a stink you may at the very least help out the next sucker, um, customer. In the future, well, you've learned the same way I have that dealing with reputable companies is worth a few extra $$$.

I don't understand the problem, though -- the microsono site shows the StepUp 1-year ltd. warranty. Refusal to honor that warranty of course gives you an excellent claim, and remember that some of the warranty's restrictive terms may not be vlaid in your state.

Re:"All sales final" not

[smillie]

Talk to your credit card company first, the seller second

The credit card people will ask if you have make "a good faith effort" to resolve the problem first. That means attempting to talk to the seller first.

Re:"All sales final" not

[MacAndrew]

Yes, but what I *meant* was to find out exactly what his rights, obligations, time limits were. :) Some cards also offer certain extra warranties. I was also *assuming* the buyer had at least taken a stab at working things out with the merchant and been blown off. Some people are shy, of course....

What a pain disputes like this are -- and they discourage people from doing mail order business.

Re:Backdoor on MDK beta

[Anonymous Coward]

We just removed it from UPEN servers the .SE servers still got the hijacked version. Gobein can you issue a null upload on that file? So that who ever is not around, but using rsync daemons can get a null version and the backdoored version would propagate out of the system eventually, I just wrote an e-mail to Petri but no reply as yet, I guess most are asleep over there, if you dont issue a null, I'll do it myself at exactly 02:00 GMT.

Thx

Ben

Re:Backdoor on MDK beta

[Anonymous Coward]

Moderators note, that posting is from one of the official Mandrake rsync dudes. Everyone check the GPG keys using Mandrake Secure. This advisory was mailed to the mirroring list just a few mins ago with GPG keys.

Re:Backdoor on MDK beta

[dextr0us]

its kind of ironic that they post them AC....... its almost like a troll or something.......

hmmm.....

i wonder.....

(joking)

Perhaps the Jobs distortion field is weakening...

[Anonymous Coward]

Mac users find Keynote out of tune

Clearly it is to cover up modbombing.

[Anonymous Coward]

Expect an increase in modbombs, but we won't be able to find them any longer. They'll be covered in a little mathematical slight of hand. Now, how does this scale? You're adding in a few computations every query. I thought 'how does it scale' was always the grand question. I'm sure it does an okay job at scaling, but what has been achieved? What have the users gained? Nothing. What have the editorial members gained? Ability to squash discussion undetected.

Re:America is the future

[joe_bruin]

er, the euro was worth 1.03 dollars. today it's 88 cents

Small claims

[Chris Canfield]

I hope laptop guy, and anyone else who has gotten jipped reads this. Small claims court filings (here in Massachusetts) cost 15 dollars, don't require a lawyer, and require about as much knowledge of the law as going to your parents and saying "johnny took my lunch." The court is chosen based upon your location, and if they don't show up a summary judgement will be had.

Don't let them get away with selling bad equipment. Go to your courthouse today.

Same thing in the States.

[sideshow]

I'm not sure but it might be called the Consumers Protection Act. Among other things it guartantees consumers the right to return defective or misleading products up to 30 days after purchase.

techspot vs. nordichardware

[Plastik]

There are at least a few typos in the Techspot article. I assume that if they'd actually stolen the Nordic Hardware article itself it would have been cut-and-paste, not typed by hand.

Credit Card Transactions.

[zipwow]

I'd think that this is one of those classic situations where you tell Visa that the product did not meet its advertised specifications, that you're not going to pay for it, and would be happy to return it.

-Zipwow

That CAN'T be right...

[Anonymous Coward]

You'll have to make up your own mind on this.

I'll have to do what?

But... but... but... this is SLASHDOT. I need you to tell me what to think! Don't I?

I'm all cold and lonely now. Somebody hold me.

Re:America is the future

[Anonymous Coward]

Forgot to click "post anonymously" this time, eh, dumbass? BTW, the euro is worth $1.076 today.

Wha...

[zobier]

A few sites rightfully claimed [x] however this was not the case.

Ahem, sorry, How can you rightfully claim anything that is not the case?

slashdot's evil regime of censorship

[timothy]

see this previous comment :)

It is cool news, I agree. And Slashdot's search engine is not perfect, but it has gotten much better. Here's the search I should have done before posting my dupe ;)

timothy

Truly.

[Max Threshold]

I'm sorry, but you gotta laugh. Mandrake is facing bancruptcy, And this guy is instructing everyone to download the iso's. That's just brilliant. :)

Really it is. Mandrake desperately needs a release that isn't all fucked up if they want to stay in business.

The UK/EU Experience

[WIAKywbfatw]

Similar thing here in the UK, where we have the Trades Descriptions Act, Sale of Goods Act and other legislation that define what vendors can and can't do, what they must and mustn't do and generally protect consumers from being fleeced.

If this happened over here there would be no contest - the goods did not live up to the description given so the vendor would be legally bound to refund the customer's money.

It's worth noting that, in the case of faulty goods, upcoming EU legislation will shift the onus of responsibility of providing proof from the consumer to the vendor for the six years proceeding sale. Basically, if I buy a product (say a TV) and it had a fault that I discovered way after its warranty had expired but which I hadn't previously noticed it would be the down to the vendor to prove that the fault wasn't present at the time of purchase or that it didn't occur within the period for which the product is usually covered.

See? Sometimes, the EU isn't half as bad as some /.ers (usually the kind that have never even been to Europe) like to make out.

It's not that unusual

[hayden]

I find it interesting that the trees are all still standing - less only their leaves!

Eucalytus trees evolved to survive all but the most extreme bushfires. The generally accepted theory is that the soil is so poor in Australia that the best time to germinate is just after a bushfire where the ground is covered in nutrients from the burned trees and bushes.

Re:It's not that unusual

[zfalcon]

Uh, eucalyptus trees are prone to fire. In the last big fire in the Oakland hills, CA, the eucalyptus trees exploded due to their high oil content. They are also "dirty" trees, as their litter (leaves, bark, etc) is all flammable.

http://wwwlibrary.csustan.edu/bsantos/section3.h tm #A%20Fire

Re:It's not that unusual

[Anonymous Coward]

Stromlo was actually covered with a plantation of pine trees, sometimes known as Monterey Pine for the area of California they were originally imported from. There do appear to be a few eucalypts or wattles near the observatory buildings. The 8th last photo shows a view through a window, the limb in the foreground is a eucalypt, but the other trees are clearly pines.

For what its worth, many eucalypt species do cope well with fire, they regrow foliage from epicormic buds beneath the bark of the trunk. I think the Stromlo fires were hot enough to kill many trees entirely though.

Re:It's not that unusual

[DHam]

While it's true that the oil in Eucalypts can produce some spactacular effects, the trees themselves are pretty fire-hardy and have fire-triggered regrowth behaviour which helps them recover. Many of the parts of Canberra which have been badly affected are actually near pine plantations which are much more of a fire hazard than the natural bush. (This also applies to Mt. Stromlo - the trees on the hill itself are Eucalypts but the hill is in the middle of a pine plantation). The locations of pine plantations near Canberra are being reassessed due to the fires (or so says the Canberra Times).

Good grief

[NDPTAL85]

Will you EVER fucking get over that discussion thread? Do you or do you not have a life?

Mandrake Mirror Page

[Immorphal]

It must be a sign of the times, but did you notice that when you try to access the mirror list on Mandrake's site without signing up for the Mandrake Linux Users Club, if you click on "I'm already a member of the Club or plan on registering soon, please send me to the download page now." The page just redirects to the same page.

I have found this behaviour since I read that they are in financial trouble. I have been trying to download iso images for Mandrake 9. You can probably not blame them for this, because they DO need the money. Even at liniuxiso.org I can only get the first cd iso and not the second one. Could this be some kind of M$ conspiracy ??? :-)

Has anyone got a nice list of mirrors available?

Re:Mandrake Mirror Page

[Anonymous Coward]

I've just tried the page, and didn't see the behaviour you say you found -- instead it gave me the download/mirror page, as expected.

Re:Mandrake Mirror Page

[rakkasan]

I got the same result from the mirror as well - redirection..??

Student houses and workshops

[GQuon]

Regarding "Also destroyed were a number of student houses and workshops"
According to this article, slashdot story was correct:

The fires destroyed four telescopes, the equipment workshop, eight houses
which had been occupied by staff and an administration
building.

Good to see that the website is up again, and that most of the computers on the observatory, holding important work, were found intact.

Re: Where did you steal this crap from?

[Anonymous Coward]

So I'd know to write to whoever really "wrote" it, since it's obvious you didn't. There are SO mnay insults, non trusts and outright lies, that I dont know where to begin. In fact, I dont' feel like wasting too much time since you are NOt the real writer like I said but, let's go over some of your "facts".
before we begin, i am a European who has lived in US for 20 years and in Europe for 20 so I know how BOTH are.
Real Europeans are becoming less and less? By that I guess you mean "white" Europeans. Actuially, US has the exact same problem, except in US it's the latinos and Asians who will be the predominantly race in about 20 years. The "whites" will be minority in US too, very very soon. Like I said, give it 20 years.
Europeans are lazy, while Americans are hard workers? Hardly. In fact, Americans are lazy s SOB too, and they have relayed on the rest of the world to feed them and to work for them. The tide is turning tho and now the rest of the world is discovering how much it is being used by the US.
Think slavery. All kinds of slavery. Black and Asian-chinese and mexicans and so on. SO much for your point two.
Europe loves Socialism? har dee har har. In fact, US LOVES socialism, when it's for the right people-for the rich. The rich get all sorts of freebies- big companies dont pay taxes(Microsoft) and most everyone working for the goverment gets a nice retirement and benefits while the rest of us working stiff suffer. Since I'm working(kinda) for the goverment of a city, I know that first hand, care to know how much our boss gets paid and how much money I get paid? The difference is enormous. So much for your point 3.
Enough said.

Re: try http://linuxiso.org/

[Anonymous Coward]

its got the others SuSE, gentrroo and so on there too

Observatories downtown

[SgtChaireBourne]

Stromlo and other optical observatories would not have to move were it not for the light haze.

Many universities that are at least 50 years old have an observatory or two downtown or near the downtown. These generally predate modern, inefficient, poorly arranged outdoor lighting. It's a shame that so much of the electricity bought to light the streets ends up lighting the sky instead.

Eliminating waste light would not only decrease costs, but restore the usefulness of these observatories. Then there are the quality of life issues form being able to see the stars. Also the stars and other celestial bodies have been important to many cultures and, in some cases, sacred.

Three with one stone -- or BB-pellet ;) -- cost savings/efficiency, quality of life, culture.

all sales final my ass

[SubtleNuance]

"I bought one, it arrived today. It was clearly used, not new, and didn't work. If you tilted it, it hung. I gave up after a dozen reboots. Only purchasable from www.microsono.com, where all sales are final.

if they didnt ship what they described - than there HAS been no SALE at all. They must ship the item described. If it was described as 'new' and 'in good working order' with this and that pc of software, then they must deliver that pc of kit.

OTHERWISE, your 'offer' to purchase hasnt been satisfied - no sale has taken place yet.

If they dont take the product back, its fraud.

How about Mark Twain?

[deno]

"the news of my death has been greatly exaggerated"

LOL! :-)

It's not Linux!

[StCredZero]

Not Linux! Read this article down in the body, it talks about hosting the software on Microsoft Windows 2000 Datacenter Server.

Mt Stromlo disaster recovery reaches for the stars

[Technodummy]

http://www.zdnet.com.au/newstech/communications/st ory/0,2000024993,20271482,00.htm

Mt Stromlo disaster recovery reaches for the stars
By Jeanne-Vida Douglas, ZDNet Australia
23 January 2003

On Saturday January 18, a devastating firestorm raged through Canberra and its outskirts. More than four hundred homes, and multiple business were destroyed, along with the historic Mt Stromlo Observatory, which was established in the 1920s.
Preliminary estimates put the losses at Mt Stromlo in excess of AU$20 million, as four telescopes, the equipment workshop, eight houses which had been occupied by staff and an administration building succumbed to the blaze.

However, the observatory's legacy, millions of units of data collected as part of its research over the years, has been salvaged thanks to a comprehensive disaster recovery plan implemented by the Australian National University's (ANU) division of information.

According to Peter Young, head of the computer section at Mount Stromlo, the data created at the observatory was divided into two separate groups. Research data collected by the telescopes as part of national and international studies was channelled directly to a large StorageTek 9310 Powderhorn library, referred to as a 6000-slot data silo, located at the ANU's central Canberra campus. Administration and research data held in the observatory's administration centre, the Woolley Building, was backed-up at regular intervals and stored in two separate locations remote from the facility.

As the fires approached on Saturday, Young managed to complete a final backup of the administration data. However, the Woolley Building was one of the few at the facility to survive the blaze.

"The administration building which contained our computer facilities was largely undamaged, it held all of our computer servers and equipment, and we are in the process of transporting most of that gear down to the ANU at the moment," Young said. "However, we have lost a large computing facility located in the 50-inch dome, but the data collected by those machines wasn't lost, it is all in the StorageTek silos in the ANU."

While the loss of the physical infrastructure comes as a blow to the observatory's research efforts, Young points out that the ability to recover the data means observatory staff are able to continue with their research while the centre is either rebuilt or relocated.

Bob Gingold, head of the head of the ANU's supercomputer facility and acting director of the division of information, said the disaster recovery plan had enabled the observatory to continue to provide its information resources to astronomers all over the world, essentially creating what may prove to be the world's first "virtual observatory".

"By re-establishing the data access down here at the ANU, and offering the information over the Internet to people from all over the world, we are enabling much of the observatory's work to continue," Gingold said.

Alongside the Powderhorn library the StorageTek equipment at the ANU Supercomputing Facility consists of eight T9840 tape drives, 4 T9940 tape drives, 2 Redwood tape drives as well as a tape and disk storage area network. In an effort to assist university and observatory staff in the recovery process StorageTek has offered a further 9730 tape drive on loan.

With the data still intact, observatory staff are being temporarily housed alongside the ANU's Supercomputing Facility, where about 20 terminals have been set up to provide access to mail servers, and research data.

However, Young points out the observatory will ultimately need more than data access in order to resume its scientific endeavours.

"At the moment we do have a physical space in which to work, but it is not quite conducive to a normal working environment, we have engineers and designers who need more room to and access to specialist equipment which was unfortunately lost in the blaze," Young said. "A lot of the staff also lived on Mt Stromlo and are coping with the loss of their homes and there was a lot of history in the building itself, we're all very sad."

bushfires are part of the eco-system

[Technodummy]

many native seeds in Australia are encased in a durable pod, only able to be opened by a fire.

this means after a fire has passed, new plants will renew the area.

wattle seeds grow better after being dropped in a cup of boiling water for a few moments