Wow - way to miss the point of free speech. In UK if you think the legal system is perfect and never corrupt - just pick up a copy of Private Eye. No democratic system is perfect - the price of freedom is eternal vigilance... as someone once said.
That said I am happy to be resident in the UK - it is mostly good, but never without stain.
The US has not shown any real or official interest in extraditing him to the US. Radio, Print, and TV talk show pundits don't have the power to issue warrants no matter how much they shout and stomp their feet. The only possible charge they could level against him would be receiving stolen property and even that charge is weak so why bother at this point. Why give this guy a bigger bully pulpit to preach his gospel? And you can not be held in a US prison indefinitely without an indictment and the amount of time a person can be held on suspicion only is clearly defined and enforced rigorously. And please don't use Guantanamo as your basis for your BS. If he was going to Guantanamo they certainly would not let little things like warrants get in the way. If the US really wanted him they would already have him. As it is the only person being prosecuted for the Wiki leak data leak and distribution is Manning.
Doublethink is alive and well. Guantanamo clearly demonstrates that the US does hold prisoners without charge indefinately in violation of international law. Sounds like you might think there are grounds for exceptions (a different debate). But be honest to yourself - your country does this.
Nope - I think it is closer to saying that local customs are not the same as laws. Suggest you re-read the previous comment. Remember he hasn't been charged, the warrant was issued for "questioning".
Unless we in the UK believe that the country is violating treaties by abuse of the warrant system. Say for calling removal of consent after the fact "rape", or issuing european warrants for "questioning" rather than arrest.
Seriously the UK does judge the correctness of laws overseas, and the possiblities of fair treatment (including blocking extradition where the death penalty, not legal in the UK, could be applied), hence we don't deport Christians under other country's blasphemy laws.
In any case this moves on to the UK Supreme Court.
They were dismissed as such by the first prosecution authority in Sweden. That it is not a warrent for arrest, just for "questioning", also calls in to question the accusations, or at least the evidence for them. Lastly calling removal of consent after the fact "rape" is insulting to anyone who has undergone the real horrible crime, and should properly terrify anyone who doesn't get on with an ex partner.
What do you expect of "Anonymous Coward" calling someone a "Coward"? I'd suggest you use shorter words than "accusations" if you want him to consider facts of the case or understand it.
For you and your sister I'll give it a go;)... But yes this is an argument Plato dismissed many many moons ago. Simple logic would be a useful common feature in the species...
Okay... now what suggestions do you have for getting out the right information to enough UK people to make the whole thing useless to the government. The bill is already technically inept, and there are various routes around the system. Aside from encouraging everyone I know to use PGP (I do already), and sending spoof data about the place (minor effect). What is the simpest way for the (simple) home user to bypass this?... We need an easy solution for enough people to take it up... then at least the government might find it not worth the money, and quitely drop it.... };-{>
Re:Well, this is the kind of thing you have to exp
on
Caught Before the Act
·
· Score: 1
Good point Tom... here the use of guns by our respective governments divides us! Ever fancied coming back to live here?
Re:Well, this is the kind of thing you have to exp
on
Caught Before the Act
·
· Score: 1
I agree with a lot of your sentiments there...
... I think that guns & computers etc can all be used for good or bad... but I hope in the UK we are saying as a society that we don't want guns everywhere, because of the risks & destablising effect it can have...
Re:Well, this is the kind of thing you have to exp
on
Caught Before the Act
·
· Score: 1
It was mob rule
--- In case you had not noticed democrasy is just the tyranny of the majority... unfortunately it appears to be the most free form of government we have had, so far.....
Banning hand-guns has had negligible effect on gun crime in the UK. Nobody robs banks or takes part in a gangland turf war with a legally registered handgun.
--- I dispute your first point - although I would expect such an effect to truely show over many years, not in the short time we have had the laws to which you refer. To the second I would say that the less tools of killing in a society the better - making it less likely that legal guns fall to the hands of criminals (also less likely to be used in domestic disputes, accidentally used by chilred etc.).
Re:Well, this is the kind of thing you have to exp
on
Caught Before the Act
·
· Score: 1
I happen to take the deaths of millions of civilians by their governments VERY seriously.
--- Me too... and the deaths of civilians of other countries (often in recent history by the US - although I'm sure such news is reported very differently there).
Gun control is a prerequisite for genocide
--- So are guns, I'd say...;)
Re:Well, this is the kind of thing you have to exp
on
Caught Before the Act
·
· Score: 1
I think the difference is seeing everyone in society as a part of the government... that is the basis of democrasy isn't it?
... Oh and I've certainly enjoyed it too!... Good luck with the final!
It never formed a government in exile (remember the UK governemnt & monarchy were always ruling this country, and merely claimed the US as taxable lands - it merely quietly recinded its right to claim taxes from the US after the revolt -
I repeat with the monarchy still here, you cannot say you overthrew it! (a simple point of *our* english language).
Re:Well, this is the kind of thing you have to exp
on
Caught Before the Act
·
· Score: 1
Please tell me that site is a joke! It has made my whole office laugh!... How can people see such things so black & white? Gun control kills no-one... guns & those with them certainly kills people...
Re:Well, this is the kind of thing you have to exp
on
Caught Before the Act
·
· Score: 1
Certainly agree to this:) The media tends to feed on driving up anger & misinformation in such disputes...
Re:Well, this is the kind of thing you have to exp
on
Caught Before the Act
·
· Score: 1
... I don't think people in the UK are as alienated from their government... but being a far smaller country, the individual is closer to the government. I am sorryt if the feeling about government is so bad in the US. Talking does work, but it takes longer than force... but I believe it to be worth the wait... Also the circumstances constantly change - so society is constantly being readjusted. The Poll Tax issue in the 1980's is a great example of how a m,assively unpopular law was quickly reversed by the (mostly) peaceful protest of the population... Possibly also an example of how money issues gain more weight than those of "rights" in most democratic capotalist societies - but that is another debate;)
Re:Well, this is the kind of thing you have to exp
on
Caught Before the Act
·
· Score: 1
... I think at some point we will have to get rid of cars... the increase of cars is not sustainable & severly damages the environment... classic example of the best choice for each individual being the worst for society... and I believe the same is true for your view on gun ownership...
.... I'm sure a life has been saved by a terrorist once... but I wouldn't encourage every home to have one;)
Re:Well, this is the kind of thing you have to exp
on
Caught Before the Act
·
· Score: 1
Also may I note:
1. we did not let our selves be disarmed - it was through due democratic processes that our gun laws are far tighter than the US - something supported by the majority over here...
2. The US didn't not overthrow the monarchy... you rebelled against the (at the time excessive) taxes of the Crown... The monarchy are still here...
Re:Well, this is the kind of thing you have to exp
on
Caught Before the Act
·
· Score: 1
I thought most of the media was government sponsored.
--- You are plain *wrong* on that... sorry - it may well be different in the US...
did you know that more children died last year as a result of air bags than accidental shootings?
--- Possibly... doesn't make either right... At least air bags aren't made for killing...
--- I respect your right to differ, my view is that your society is poorer for it...
Slashdot Mirror
Wow - way to miss the point of free speech. In UK if you think the legal system is perfect and never corrupt - just pick up a copy of Private Eye. No democratic system is perfect - the price of freedom is eternal vigilance ... as someone once said.
That said I am happy to be resident in the UK - it is mostly good, but never without stain.
The US has not shown any real or official interest in extraditing him to the US. Radio, Print, and TV talk show pundits don't have the power to issue warrants no matter how much they shout and stomp their feet. The only possible charge they could level against him would be receiving stolen property and even that charge is weak so why bother at this point. Why give this guy a bigger bully pulpit to preach his gospel? And you can not be held in a US prison indefinitely without an indictment and the amount of time a person can be held on suspicion only is clearly defined and enforced rigorously. And please don't use Guantanamo as your basis for your BS. If he was going to Guantanamo they certainly would not let little things like warrants get in the way. If the US really wanted him they would already have him. As it is the only person being prosecuted for the Wiki leak data leak and distribution is Manning.
Doublethink is alive and well. Guantanamo clearly demonstrates that the US does hold prisoners without charge indefinately in violation of international law. Sounds like you might think there are grounds for exceptions (a different debate). But be honest to yourself - your country does this.
Yes you can be extradited under criminal charges. Not just for questions normally under the European warrant scheme.
Nope - I think it is closer to saying that local customs are not the same as laws. Suggest you re-read the previous comment. Remember he hasn't been charged, the warrant was issued for "questioning".
Not after the fact. Before or during certainly.
Unless we in the UK believe that the country is violating treaties by abuse of the warrant system. Say for calling removal of consent after the fact "rape", or issuing european warrants for "questioning" rather than arrest.
Seriously the UK does judge the correctness of laws overseas, and the possiblities of fair treatment (including blocking extradition where the death penalty, not legal in the UK, could be applied), hence we don't deport Christians under other country's blasphemy laws.
In any case this moves on to the UK Supreme Court.
They were dismissed as such by the first prosecution authority in Sweden. That it is not a warrent for arrest, just for "questioning", also calls in to question the accusations, or at least the evidence for them. Lastly calling removal of consent after the fact "rape" is insulting to anyone who has undergone the real horrible crime, and should properly terrify anyone who doesn't get on with an ex partner.
where cases are heard by the Law Lords.
Are Law Lords anything like Time Lords?
Essentially, just take a lot longer.
Obvious coward is obvious.
Anonymous Coward touched me - everyone get him before considering it rationally or letting the law decide.
Used to be. UK does have a supreme court now.
What do you expect of "Anonymous Coward" calling someone a "Coward"? I'd suggest you use shorter words than "accusations" if you want him to consider facts of the case or understand it.
For you and your sister I'll give it a go ;) ... But yes this is an argument Plato dismissed many many moons ago. Simple logic would be a useful common feature in the species ...
Okay ... now what suggestions do you have for getting out the right information to enough UK people to make the whole thing useless to the government. The bill is already technically inept, and there are various routes around the system. Aside from encouraging everyone I know to use PGP (I do already), and sending spoof data about the place (minor effect). What is the simpest way for the (simple) home user to bypass this? ... We need an easy solution for enough people to take it up ... then at least the government might find it not worth the money, and quitely drop it....
};-{>
Good point Tom ... here the use of guns by our respective governments divides us! Ever fancied coming back to live here?
I agree with a lot of your sentiments there...
... but I hope in the UK we are saying as a society that we don't want guns everywhere, because of the risks & destablising effect it can have...
... I think that guns & computers etc can all be used for good or bad
It was mob rule
... unfortunately it appears to be the most free form of government we have had, so far.....
--- In case you had not noticed democrasy is just the tyranny of the majority
Banning hand-guns has had negligible effect on gun crime in the UK. Nobody robs banks or takes part in a gangland turf war with a legally registered handgun.
--- I dispute your first point - although I would expect such an effect to truely show over many years, not in the short time we have had the laws to which you refer. To the second I would say that the less tools of killing in a society the better - making it less likely that legal guns fall to the hands of criminals (also less likely to be used in domestic disputes, accidentally used by chilred etc.).
I happen to take the deaths of millions of civilians by their governments VERY seriously.
--- Me too
Gun control is a prerequisite for genocide
--- So are guns, I'd say
I think the difference is seeing everyone in society as a part of the government ... that is the basis of democrasy isn't it?
... Oh and I've certainly enjoyed it too!... Good luck with the final!
It never formed a government in exile (remember the UK governemnt & monarchy were always ruling this country, and merely claimed the US as taxable lands - it merely quietly recinded its right to claim taxes from the US after the revolt -
I repeat with the monarchy still here, you cannot say you overthrew it! (a simple point of *our* english language).
Please tell me that site is a joke! It has made my whole office laugh!... How can people see such things so black & white? Gun control kills no-one ... guns & those with them certainly kills people...
Certainly agree to this :)
The media tends to feed on driving up anger & misinformation in such disputes...
... I don't think people in the UK are as alienated from their government ... but being a far smaller country, the individual is closer to the government. I am sorryt if the feeling about government is so bad in the US. Talking does work, but it takes longer than force... but I believe it to be worth the wait... Also the circumstances constantly change - so society is constantly being readjusted. The Poll Tax issue in the 1980's is a great example of how a m,assively unpopular law was quickly reversed by the (mostly) peaceful protest of the population ... Possibly also an example of how money issues gain more weight than those of "rights" in most democratic capotalist societies - but that is another debate ;)
... I think at some point we will have to get rid of cars ... the increase of cars is not sustainable & severly damages the environment ... classic example of the best choice for each individual being the worst for society ... and I believe the same is true for your view on gun ownership ...
;)
.... I'm sure a life has been saved by a terrorist once... but I wouldn't encourage every home to have one
Also may I note:
... you rebelled against the (at the time excessive) taxes of the Crown... The monarchy are still here...
1. we did not let our selves be disarmed - it was through due democratic processes that our gun laws are far tighter than the US - something supported by the majority over here...
2. The US didn't not overthrow the monarchy
I thought most of the media was government sponsored.
... doesn't make either right... At least air bags aren't made for killing...
--- You are plain *wrong* on that... sorry - it may well be different in the US...
did you know that more children died last year as a result of air bags than accidental shootings?
--- Possibly
--- I respect your right to differ, my view is that your society is poorer for it...