..be a better choice? Madobramedia uses it to great effect as the default format of Fireworks, and it retains all sorts of vector, layer, font/text and other metadata, whilst also resulting in something that can be viewed without it's metadata being understood e.g. in Finder/Explorer.
Hi Xiando,
I read TFA, and what interested me was the mention of the Disclosure.org website -- I recently read a few of the documents there with great interest, and was wondering if you or other curious/.'ers had reasons for or against the assertion, the repeated assertion, within some of published papers, that there is both an organisation within the American military which is suppressing reverse-engineered technology, and which is also engaged in the build-up to a hoaxed alien threat, which is intended to unite the world with the USA against it, Independence Day style. I was struck by the apparent willingness of people very high-up to put their names to this, but I am also interested in the opinions of the sceptical.
I see. Thanks for replying to this, because I have been wondering where my web app would stand in regard of this - if his work had been GPL so to speak. Your assumptions about the web app are correct. I know that the bottom line regarding Roth's RTE is that I can use it, for free or for profit, unconditionally. I couldn't ask for more in that respect, or any, as I think his work is first-rate. Thank-you for clarifying another concern I had as well - where my app would be as/if I move down the route of releasing the source to involve others - it could be a closed private collaboration, or from what you are telling me it could be shared with the open source community (not that I presume it worthy of the attention), I could GPL a version and still be able to move on with a commercial version.
Choice cuts from a personal favourite of mine, The Paedo-Finder General (a loose parody of the witchfinder general).
The Paedofinder General kills a lifeguard watching over bathing children. At one point the lifeguard's hand is obscuring the logo on his Speedo swimming trunks, leaving 'peedo' and thus all the evidence the PFG needs.
The Paedofinder General executes Banjo the "paedo-dog" for licking his owner's face (a child).
The Paedophile General invades the stage of a production of Fiddler On the Roof - accusing the teacher who organised it of having 'a list of young children' in his possession (the class register). "By the powers invested in me by a text vote on Sky News, I find you guilty of paedophilia."
The Paedophile General performs 'Fire' at a School-night themed disco and setting light to all the innocent dancers in attendance. "You've been molesting this little girl." "She's 43, she's from accounts." "She looks 12 and that's what counts."
The Paedofinder General executes two gay men he spots choosing fabrics. "All gays are paedophiles," he declares. "It is written in stone. On the wall behind the bus station. Where I wrote it."
The Paedofinder General burning to death the teacher who inadvertantly included the words Townsend, Glitter and King when he rewrote the school's Nativity Play ("I teach PE," the teacher pleaded. "Dophilia," the PFG added.).
The Paedofinder-General is working at Snippy Snaps where he confronts the mother who comes to pick up photos of her naked baby. "You imprisoned a naked child in your stomach for your own sick pleasure," she is told before being executed.
the un-necessity of ODF, I am going to post in the widely-used MS Word Document format (2000-2003), abridged to bypass the lameness filter, so I will be understood readily, thereby validating my conceit;
;BF>^@^@d^A^@@d^A^@^@^@^@^@^@<88>^A^@^@^@^@^@^@^ D^@^A^A^O^@^D^A^@
^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@I think all of this ODF nonsense is for communists, and I hope you will all subscribe to my Anti-Terrorism newsletter.^M^@^@^
^@^@^@^
..a non-GPL project is the one that would be a more a concrete example; I develop in OS/X and Windows and deploy to Apache/PHP/MySQL on Linux. The LAMP part is obviously something that the OSS community has given me, and I am grateful to all of those projects. That said my work doesn't require me to modify Apache, PHP, MySQL or the Linux platform, and in that sense the GPL doesn't affect my work for the worse.
There is another piece of software that I have used in my CMS project (a client wanted a bespoke CMS, I swear I did advise that we should shop around for existing solutions), and in the versions of the CMS I have gone on to sell to other clients. It's Kevin Roth's Rich Text Editor component, a collection of Javascript and HTML, and it is free as in beer, and the source code is visible for all to see. But it is not GPL, and some people have a hard time accepting that this work of art, a gift to the world IMO, could simply be 'free for reuse, anywhere'.
I truly want to be (politely) corrected if I am wrong, but my understanding is if his work were under the GPL, then my work which is incorporating his work, would also have to be GPL.
My dear boy I doff my cap to thee and proclaim 'Excelsior!'
I will indeed join you once more in a toast to the Queen, Ensign and to The Commonwealth, and pray that the wishes of Her Majesty are given wings so that She and Britannia may continue to soar to the stars, and that the sun should indeed never set upon our great empire. I would also like to propose once more a toast to Canada, an infant Hercules which has made us so proud. I raise my sparkling glass of finest port to you, and proclaim that you Canadians should never be without tea or dignity. Felicitations upon this fine sojourn, and God Speed.
Well blast it if this day doesn't get better! Do you know old boy that I've just had the most magical encounter with a chap from over the pond - an American fellow! You say you are from the loyal colonies, one can only infer you mean our favourite colony - Canada? Today I am doubly-blessed! I said to the American fellow (colourful chap, fond of sexual expletives - damned sophisticated these Americans), I said to him 'do pop-by for a spot of tea!'. He has yet to visit our humble digs here in Blighty but I do believe in the magic of this Internet place. I am extremely pleased to be making your acquaintance as well Ceoyoyo, and I wish your disciplined and orderly colony all the best in these challenging times. Long live the Queen! Huzzah!
I am particularly supportive of people who log on to American websites and start talking like Jolly Old England.
Then it was a pleasure to make your acquaintance old fellow. I do hope you will drop in for a spot of tea some day - the Queen is likely to be popping-by next week and it would be a capital idea if we could have a real living American join us, see what all the fuss is about so to speak. Toodle-Pip.
A Butty to you is probably a Burger, though the contents don't have to be an obscene amount of congealed beef.
Crisps are Chips to you. Chips to us are Fries to you. Hilarious.
'Plumped' is a colloquialism I grant you, but 'plumbed' is a verb. It's just not the verb I used.
I value our special relationship and welcome your continued fight against xenophobia.
Who are you people, and what have you done with the real slashdot?
We are the silent minority. We have abducted the usual sensationalising/. submitters and instated a new order. From now on we will have factual statements as headlines, succeeded by a fair and orderly discussion. This will necessitate a reduction in page views, and we are currently in attempts to re-negotiate the patronage of the OSDL in this respect. We are also engaged in a comprehensive review of/. sigs, and we will be removing any which are factually-incorrect. Furthermore we are seeking to remove the moderation category known as 'funny' and will replace it with 'idiosyncratic'.
I agree to a degree, but I still see some heinous abuses of junk food here in Liverpool. No matter how much better we have it, we still have a real problem with poor diet amongst lower income families. It was very heartening to see the Jamie Oliver campaign having some effects in schools, but there is still much to be done to break the cycle of poor nutritional awareness inside the home. I related a tale about the 'chips or crisps woman' on this thread earlier, that experience to me spoke volumes about the size of the problem.
Yeah, have to agree there - we may have less extremes of wealth and poverty, but I still have to get the bus from Old Swan to Liverpool City Centre sometimes, and it is a truly depressing journey though what I can only describe as Dickensian squalor - a long, long road of burnt-out terraces, vandalised pubs, closed-down shops not least of which is this hideous, oppressive 60's market that need pulling down desperately. Butty shops litter this grim landscape. I think environment clearly shapes our health, it's almost brainless of me to point it out.
Most saliently, I'm reminded of 'Chips or Crisps woman' - one morning an obese couple got on the bus with their daughter - the woman was so fat that she _did_ look like Fat Bastard from Austin Powers. And the kid was screaming, and she was asking '...what? what? you hungry? do you want chips or crisps......chips?.......crisps?'
This was at 7.30am, and I felt truly sick. The kid plumped for crisps btw.
I'm from the UK, I grew up with 'Allo 'Allo - comedies based on ethnic differences are not new to me, and I am not simply offended by taboo's and nor am I a mindlessly politically-correct drone. Shove your wikipedia link up your arse, and for the record my favourite character was General Rigatoni. I have covered all of your other insinuations in this other reply I had to write to another over-zealous slashdotter, one of many, and if you read this oneand the thread that ensued you might see you are in danger of just covering old ground. Read the thread before wading in and regurgitating the same criticisms as others. If you have another point to make, keep it to yourself, this is now a few days old. I'm bored of this, truly.
Well I can see your audience thanking you for that.
Do you think that people faced with an IE only site blame IE or MS?
No, I don't think they realise there is blame to be apportioned, as you might expect. I don't like IE. I don't think much of most IE users, and no, I don't want IE complicating my job as web developer in ten years time. It's already robbed me of time and patience, and in that sense you are truly preaching to the choir.
This is in danger of going around in circles - I wouldn't force them, you would. Including the wikipedia link is just unnecessary - you've studied some psychology, so did I once upon a time. Would you really rather have them rationalise this by the mechanism of cognitive dissonance, post facto, or would you rather have them want to install FF because it is a good piece of software in it's own rights?
People may not like it initially, but it will encourage people to switch.
No, they fucking well will not like you for it. IE users are not fair-minded, quid pro quo, responsible users who would see their responsibility for shaping internet usage. They are people who wilfully shun 'techie geek stuff', the kind of people who like to bang the drum about how important their computer is to their work and that they don't need to be bogged down with techie stuff. Hence;
'why dunt this site work IT Guy? sez i need 'Fyerfocks''
'well yes, it requires you use this other browser.'
'why, whats so good about it?'
'it supports the standards. It means web developers will be able to design a site that looks good for more people, in a quicker amount of time, and it will be easier to maintain.'
'i just need to get this pdf off the website.'
'then go to www.mozilla.com/firefox, download it and install it on your machine.'
'sez I can't'
'oh yeah *I* need to do that..' ...... interval whilst FF installed...
'all this bollocks just to get my pdf.'
'well to be fair you are now in possession of a browser which supports nearly all of css2 and a little bit of css3, and it fully supports the ems unit, and partially transperant png's. Honestly user, it is the shizzle, I assure you.'
'why wouldnt it work in internet explorer though?'
* pained expression on IT Guys face, as he knows he has already over-extended himself into this FF advocacy lark *
'well, I guess the site's owners thought you should use a better browser.'
'but did I have to?'
* furrowed brow, slight dampness of forehead in IT Guy *
'well, no. You didn't have to, but the site's owners wanted you to use it.'
'but didn't you used to say any good website will support as many browsers as it can?'
'I err, still think that actually.'
'so I didn't have to install 'fyerfocks'?'
'well, yes you did because that site needed it, but no you didn't, 'cos that site didn't need to make you use it.'
'aw thats shit that is; all this fuckaround for a pdf.' (martyrdom mode engaged)
......three or four weeks later........
'don't bother with that site, they make you get this 'fyerfocks' thing'
'whats that?'
'i had to get it to get the pdf.'
'is it a virus?'
'dunno. IT Guy said I had no choice.'
....user then clicks on the Blue E, as s/he always did, 'cos the Blue E is the internet. User is not now an FF user, nor an FF advocate.
It's ok I've made an arse out of myself more than once here (something about this place brings out the pompous buffoon in me).....'tis water under the bridge now, thank you very much.
It would discredit FF in the eyes of the IE users being excluded. If they are increasingly being turned away by websites, commercial or otherwise, by a page which is associating FF with the inconvenience said IE users feel, are they really going to feel warm and fuzzy about it?
I've tried to lead by example by maintaining my Firefox dev. usage, alongside the millstone of IE, in their presence and being willing to advocate, whenever they interested. These are boundaries, for me. Some have adopted FF as a result - it was their choice and they knew they wanted to do it. They therefore took responsibility for learning the new browser. They took care of themselves and did not challenge my belief in FF, they had chosen to do this themselves.
I suggest you invest a little more thought into this, because commercial or non-commercial, it is the wrong way to achieve a switch. I believe in the standards, I know IE does not support them adequately. I also know, tedious as it is, that with conditional IE-only CSS formatting, and the avoidance of IE-specific technologies, it is possible in real, practical terms to serve the audience. It is truly lamentable that the majority still use IE, it is changing slowly and we don't want to lose that by associating a cheap tactic like this with F/OSS.
If you have looked through my postings you will hopefully see that I try and differentiate this myself (most importantly, laughing at Germans vs laughing at Nazi's). In nearly all of what you explain there, I don't disagree with you. I think it just boils down, now, to the fact that you say it is mildly amusing, and I think it could be a lot better. Potato. Potaaaato. In summary - 'I nearly see it that way', as you ask.
We can split hairs about 'mildly funny' vs 'less than mildly funny' - I don't want to. I am tired. This has been an interesting discussion, but I just can't go through any more of it. Nice to meet you, FWIW, I do think you are a reasonable guy, maybe more reasonable than myself.
I still wouldn't use it, but, WOW! So authentic-looking, makes me wonder what people less scrupulous than the FF advocates could do with that CSS, some Javascript and a complete lack of morals..
If I were to do it, I would definitely prefer this way. Many IE users would think this natural, and just click, and do what it says. Amazing.
Could it be within the bounds of reality that FF had the bug? I like it, I use it on my home machine, just seems disingenuous to say it's Microsoft 'fixing things' is all, esp. given IE/Opera work fine in your scenario. Maybe corrupted user prefs in your user directory? Could try backing up bookmarks, uninstalling FF, deleting your user FF directory and reinstalling.
Other, better FF users than me might well have some light to shed on this......
They would cut my cock off and make me eat it from a cocktail stick if I decided to use this on the commercial sites I manage*. And just trying to advocate this one to my customers would lead to some (rightly) vexed expressions as I explain that it would be better in general if I blocked the browser they use.
For that matter I don't think any of the levels of seriousness would be tolerated by them. They've seen me use Firefox, some have commented on it, and one has adopted it as his personal browser on his laptop. That's it though. Using this tactic would make some of these people dig their heels, at the moment, there is a nice gentle, gradual curiosity thing going on across my client base. This might be preferable to these more up-front tactics.
* OK they would just dispense with my services. Poetic license...
Mate, I don't think the Nazi's should be taboo either. For fuck's sake, tell me you read my other post properly. If you were to see my favourite cartoon de jour - Monkey Dust - you would know I am open minded as well. I can't fucking believe I am responding, but I know you mean well at least. I repeat : Nazi's can be funny. South Park is funny, and the more taboo the subject, the funnier it is. But I can't bring myself to repeat what you should have been arsed to read in the link in my previous post to you. The link in question was on the first line. Follow it, read it, and then apologise to me.
Slashdot Mirror
..be a better choice? Madobramedia uses it to great effect as the default format of Fireworks, and it retains all sorts of vector, layer, font/text and other metadata, whilst also resulting in something that can be viewed without it's metadata being understood e.g. in Finder/Explorer.
Hi Xiando, /.'ers had reasons for or against the assertion, the repeated assertion, within some of published papers, that there is both an organisation within the American military which is suppressing reverse-engineered technology, and which is also engaged in the build-up to a hoaxed alien threat, which is intended to unite the world with the USA against it, Independence Day style. I was struck by the apparent willingness of people very high-up to put their names to this, but I am also interested in the opinions of the sceptical.
I read TFA, and what interested me was the mention of the Disclosure.org website -- I recently read a few of the documents there with great interest, and was wondering if you or other curious
I see. Thanks for replying to this, because I have been wondering where my web app would stand in regard of this - if his work had been GPL so to speak. Your assumptions about the web app are correct. I know that the bottom line regarding Roth's RTE is that I can use it, for free or for profit, unconditionally. I couldn't ask for more in that respect, or any, as I think his work is first-rate. Thank-you for clarifying another concern I had as well - where my app would be as/if I move down the route of releasing the source to involve others - it could be a closed private collaboration, or from what you are telling me it could be shared with the open source community (not that I presume it worthy of the attention), I could GPL a version and still be able to move on with a commercial version.
Choice cuts from a personal favourite of mine, The Paedo-Finder General (a loose parody of the witchfinder general).
The Paedofinder General kills a lifeguard watching over bathing children. At one point the lifeguard's hand is obscuring the logo on his Speedo swimming trunks, leaving 'peedo' and thus all the evidence the PFG needs.
The Paedofinder General executes Banjo the "paedo-dog" for licking his owner's face (a child).
The Paedophile General invades the stage of a production of Fiddler On the Roof - accusing the teacher who organised it of having 'a list of young children' in his possession (the class register). "By the powers invested in me by a text vote on Sky News, I find you guilty of paedophilia."
The Paedophile General performs 'Fire' at a School-night themed disco and setting light to all the innocent dancers in attendance. "You've been molesting this little girl." "She's 43, she's from accounts." "She looks 12 and that's what counts."
The Paedofinder General executes two gay men he spots choosing fabrics. "All gays are paedophiles," he declares. "It is written in stone. On the wall behind the bus station. Where I wrote it."
The Paedofinder General burning to death the teacher who inadvertantly included the words Townsend, Glitter and King when he rewrote the school's Nativity Play ("I teach PE," the teacher pleaded. "Dophilia," the PFG added.).
The Paedofinder-General is working at Snippy Snaps where he confronts the mother who comes to pick up photos of her naked baby. "You imprisoned a naked child in your stomach for your own sick pleasure," she is told before being executed.
Made me laugh anyway.
..a non-GPL project is the one that would be a more a concrete example; I develop in OS/X and Windows and deploy to Apache/PHP/MySQL on Linux. The LAMP part is obviously something that the OSS community has given me, and I am grateful to all of those projects. That said my work doesn't require me to modify Apache, PHP, MySQL or the Linux platform, and in that sense the GPL doesn't affect my work for the worse.
There is another piece of software that I have used in my CMS project (a client wanted a bespoke CMS, I swear I did advise that we should shop around for existing solutions), and in the versions of the CMS I have gone on to sell to other clients. It's Kevin Roth's Rich Text Editor component, a collection of Javascript and HTML, and it is free as in beer, and the source code is visible for all to see. But it is not GPL, and some people have a hard time accepting that this work of art, a gift to the world IMO, could simply be 'free for reuse, anywhere'.
I truly want to be (politely) corrected if I am wrong, but my understanding is if his work were under the GPL, then my work which is incorporating his work, would also have to be GPL.
My dear boy I doff my cap to thee and proclaim 'Excelsior!'
I will indeed join you once more in a toast to the Queen, Ensign and to The Commonwealth, and pray that the wishes of Her Majesty are given wings so that She and Britannia may continue to soar to the stars, and that the sun should indeed never set upon our great empire. I would also like to propose once more a toast to Canada, an infant Hercules which has made us so proud. I raise my sparkling glass of finest port to you, and proclaim that you Canadians should never be without tea or dignity. Felicitations upon this fine sojourn, and God Speed.
I bet they just got it off some website.
Well blast it if this day doesn't get better! Do you know old boy that I've just had the most magical encounter with a chap from over the pond - an American fellow! You say you are from the loyal colonies, one can only infer you mean our favourite colony - Canada? Today I am doubly-blessed! I said to the American fellow (colourful chap, fond of sexual expletives - damned sophisticated these Americans), I said to him 'do pop-by for a spot of tea!'. He has yet to visit our humble digs here in Blighty but I do believe in the magic of this Internet place. I am extremely pleased to be making your acquaintance as well Ceoyoyo, and I wish your disciplined and orderly colony all the best in these challenging times. Long live the Queen! Huzzah!
..too transparent..I think.
I am particularly supportive of people who log on to American websites and start talking like Jolly Old England.
Then it was a pleasure to make your acquaintance old fellow. I do hope you will drop in for a spot of tea some day - the Queen is likely to be popping-by next week and it would be a capital idea if we could have a real living American join us, see what all the fuss is about so to speak. Toodle-Pip.
A Butty to you is probably a Burger, though the contents don't have to be an obscene amount of congealed beef.
Crisps are Chips to you. Chips to us are Fries to you. Hilarious.
'Plumped' is a colloquialism I grant you, but 'plumbed' is a verb. It's just not the verb I used.
I value our special relationship and welcome your continued fight against xenophobia.
Please remain calm, change is sometimes good.
++good, infact.
03 05 06 bb speech malreported slashdot rectify.
Who are you people, and what have you done with the real slashdot? /. submitters and instated a new order. From now on we will have factual statements as headlines, succeeded by a fair and orderly discussion. This will necessitate a reduction in page views, and we are currently in attempts to re-negotiate the patronage of the OSDL in this respect. We are also engaged in a comprehensive review of /. sigs, and we will be removing any which are factually-incorrect. Furthermore we are seeking to remove the moderation category known as 'funny' and will replace it with 'idiosyncratic'.
We are the silent minority. We have abducted the usual sensationalising
Please remain calm, change is sometimes good.
I agree to a degree, but I still see some heinous abuses of junk food here in Liverpool. No matter how much better we have it, we still have a real problem with poor diet amongst lower income families. It was very heartening to see the Jamie Oliver campaign having some effects in schools, but there is still much to be done to break the cycle of poor nutritional awareness inside the home. I related a tale about the 'chips or crisps woman' on this thread earlier, that experience to me spoke volumes about the size of the problem.
Yeah, have to agree there - we may have less extremes of wealth and poverty, but I still have to get the bus from Old Swan to Liverpool City Centre sometimes, and it is a truly depressing journey though what I can only describe as Dickensian squalor - a long, long road of burnt-out terraces, vandalised pubs, closed-down shops not least of which is this hideous, oppressive 60's market that need pulling down desperately. Butty shops litter this grim landscape. I think environment clearly shapes our health, it's almost brainless of me to point it out.
Most saliently, I'm reminded of 'Chips or Crisps woman' - one morning an obese couple got on the bus with their daughter - the woman was so fat that she _did_ look like Fat Bastard from Austin Powers. And the kid was screaming, and she was asking '...what? what? you hungry? do you want chips or crisps......chips?.......crisps?'
This was at 7.30am, and I felt truly sick. The kid plumped for crisps btw.
I'm from the UK, I grew up with 'Allo 'Allo - comedies based on ethnic differences are not new to me, and I am not simply offended by taboo's and nor am I a mindlessly politically-correct drone. Shove your wikipedia link up your arse, and for the record my favourite character was General Rigatoni. I have covered all of your other insinuations in this other reply I had to write to another over-zealous slashdotter, one of many, and if you read this one and the thread that ensued you might see you are in danger of just covering old ground. Read the thread before wading in and regurgitating the same criticisms as others. If you have another point to make, keep it to yourself, this is now a few days old. I'm bored of this, truly.
Well I can see your audience thanking you for that.
...... interval whilst FF installed ...
......three or four weeks later........
....user then clicks on the Blue E, as s/he always did, 'cos the Blue E is the internet. User is not now an FF user, nor an FF advocate.
Do you think that people faced with an IE only site blame IE or MS?
No, I don't think they realise there is blame to be apportioned, as you might expect. I don't like IE. I don't think much of most IE users, and no, I don't want IE complicating my job as web developer in ten years time. It's already robbed me of time and patience, and in that sense you are truly preaching to the choir.
This is in danger of going around in circles - I wouldn't force them, you would. Including the wikipedia link is just unnecessary - you've studied some psychology, so did I once upon a time. Would you really rather have them rationalise this by the mechanism of cognitive dissonance, post facto, or would you rather have them want to install FF because it is a good piece of software in it's own rights?
People may not like it initially, but it will encourage people to switch.
No, they fucking well will not like you for it. IE users are not fair-minded, quid pro quo, responsible users who would see their responsibility for shaping internet usage. They are people who wilfully shun 'techie geek stuff', the kind of people who like to bang the drum about how important their computer is to their work and that they don't need to be bogged down with techie stuff. Hence;
'why dunt this site work IT Guy? sez i need 'Fyerfocks''
'well yes, it requires you use this other browser.'
'why, whats so good about it?'
'it supports the standards. It means web developers will be able to design a site that looks good for more people, in a quicker amount of time, and it will be easier to maintain.'
'i just need to get this pdf off the website.'
'then go to www.mozilla.com/firefox, download it and install it on your machine.'
'sez I can't'
'oh yeah *I* need to do that..'
'all this bollocks just to get my pdf.'
'well to be fair you are now in possession of a browser which supports nearly all of css2 and a little bit of css3, and it fully supports the ems unit, and partially transperant png's. Honestly user, it is the shizzle, I assure you.'
'why wouldnt it work in internet explorer though?'
* pained expression on IT Guys face, as he knows he has already over-extended himself into this FF advocacy lark *
'well, I guess the site's owners thought you should use a better browser.'
'but did I have to?'
* furrowed brow, slight dampness of forehead in IT Guy *
'well, no. You didn't have to, but the site's owners wanted you to use it.'
'but didn't you used to say any good website will support as many browsers as it can?'
'I err, still think that actually.'
'so I didn't have to install 'fyerfocks'?'
'well, yes you did because that site needed it, but no you didn't, 'cos that site didn't need to make you use it.'
'aw thats shit that is; all this fuckaround for a pdf.' (martyrdom mode engaged)
'don't bother with that site, they make you get this 'fyerfocks' thing'
'whats that?'
'i had to get it to get the pdf.'
'is it a virus?'
'dunno. IT Guy said I had no choice.'
It's ok I've made an arse out of myself more than once here (something about this place brings out the pompous buffoon in me).....'tis water under the bridge now, thank you very much.
It would discredit FF in the eyes of the IE users being excluded. If they are increasingly being turned away by websites, commercial or otherwise, by a page which is associating FF with the inconvenience said IE users feel, are they really going to feel warm and fuzzy about it?
I've tried to lead by example by maintaining my Firefox dev. usage, alongside the millstone of IE, in their presence and being willing to advocate, whenever they interested. These are boundaries, for me. Some have adopted FF as a result - it was their choice and they knew they wanted to do it. They therefore took responsibility for learning the new browser. They took care of themselves and did not challenge my belief in FF, they had chosen to do this themselves.
I suggest you invest a little more thought into this, because commercial or non-commercial, it is the wrong way to achieve a switch. I believe in the standards, I know IE does not support them adequately. I also know, tedious as it is, that with conditional IE-only CSS formatting, and the avoidance of IE-specific technologies, it is possible in real, practical terms to serve the audience. It is truly lamentable that the majority still use IE, it is changing slowly and we don't want to lose that by associating a cheap tactic like this with F/OSS.
Hello.
If you have looked through my postings you will hopefully see that I try and differentiate this myself (most importantly, laughing at Germans vs laughing at Nazi's). In nearly all of what you explain there, I don't disagree with you. I think it just boils down, now, to the fact that you say it is mildly amusing, and I think it could be a lot better. Potato. Potaaaato. In summary - 'I nearly see it that way', as you ask.
We can split hairs about 'mildly funny' vs 'less than mildly funny' - I don't want to. I am tired. This has been an interesting discussion, but I just can't go through any more of it. Nice to meet you, FWIW, I do think you are a reasonable guy, maybe more reasonable than myself.
I still wouldn't use it, but, WOW! So authentic-looking, makes me wonder what people less scrupulous than the FF advocates could do with that CSS, some Javascript and a complete lack of morals..
If I were to do it, I would definitely prefer this way. Many IE users would think this natural, and just click, and do what it says. Amazing.
Could it be within the bounds of reality that FF had the bug? I like it, I use it on my home machine, just seems disingenuous to say it's Microsoft 'fixing things' is all, esp. given IE/Opera work fine in your scenario. Maybe corrupted user prefs in your user directory? Could try backing up bookmarks, uninstalling FF, deleting your user FF directory and reinstalling.
Other, better FF users than me might well have some light to shed on this......
They would cut my cock off and make me eat it from a cocktail stick if I decided to use this on the commercial sites I manage*. And just trying to advocate this one to my customers would lead to some (rightly) vexed expressions as I explain that it would be better in general if I blocked the browser they use.
For that matter I don't think any of the levels of seriousness would be tolerated by them. They've seen me use Firefox, some have commented on it, and one has adopted it as his personal browser on his laptop. That's it though. Using this tactic would make some of these people dig their heels, at the moment, there is a nice gentle, gradual curiosity thing going on across my client base. This might be preferable to these more up-front tactics.
* OK they would just dispense with my services. Poetic license...
Mate, I don't think the Nazi's should be taboo either. For fuck's sake, tell me you read my other post properly. If you were to see my favourite cartoon de jour - Monkey Dust - you would know I am open minded as well. I can't fucking believe I am responding, but I know you mean well at least. I repeat : Nazi's can be funny. South Park is funny, and the more taboo the subject, the funnier it is. But I can't bring myself to repeat what you should have been arsed to read in the link in my previous post to you. The link in question was on the first line. Follow it, read it, and then apologise to me.