excuse me, did you take the wrong medicine this morning?
I've had exposure to various server-side java applications for several years now - and it's the worst crap I've seen in my life. java is:
- slow
- resource hungry
- platform independent
let's see, on a server you are looking for:
- speed
- optimal resource usage
- a stable hardware/software platform to run on
yeah, fits perfectly.
should I mention that I've seen at least two java-server-side project with budgets in the millions fail horribly? no surprise everyone with real IT knowledge was telling them beforehand.
why in all hell is/. falling for the same traps as the mainstream media, and devoting so much space to something that'll most likely go the way of NT (announced 3 years before it hit the shelves) ??
I wonder whether or not "business" is the correct term for these guys. the only other 500%+ margin "companies" I can come up with are mafia or drug lords.
the whole Location Poisoning scheme is a mighty tracking system. since your ID stays the same among various sites, they can cooperate and pool the data you entered. your address here, your buying habbits there, a questionaire over there and the words you entered in that search engine - doubleclick was nothing, they only get the sites you visit, not what you enter there.
7val claims that they'll require customers to sign a contract that they won't do that. which to me has the base purpose of removing *7val* from responsibility. this SCREAMS abuse. I bet it will be used for profiling as described above.
now since (2nd thing not mentioned) 7val is in germany and applying for european patent, the EUROPEAN patent law applies, NOT the US which has been quoted here. in european patent law, patents can be refused if they are overtly abusive. for example, you couldn't patent something if it's only use is illegal. since Location Poisoning begs to be abused, and the "advantage" of following visitors even when they leave your site is one of its strong marketing points, I do believe a point can be made for the patent to be abusive in nature.
the last two require that you change your links. the second might be accomplished with some nifty rewriting and might work very much like the first (7val) without the DNS trouble. it'll still break caching.
I don't think this is about DeCSS and Linux players. there's a bit more to it.
DVD CCA is in essence trying to monopolize a whole technology. what they want is no road to DVD without a license from them. not only can you not play (decode) DVDs without a CSS license, you can also not create (encode) any. that's control of the player and content market at once - probably the only get-rich-quick scheme I've ever seen that has chances to work.
self-interest, of course, since licensing that technology is that small companies only reason of existence. but it's not the court's job to protect a company from losing its profit because it f*cked up.
this lawsuit is definitely immoral, probably unconstitutional, and as GILC says: most likely in violation of the human right charter. it undoubtly is not part of a free-world culture. this is corporate culture at 200% proof.
speaking as one of the defendants, I believe that the #1 reason for most of us to not simply fold, drop the links and go away is that we believe in the importance and legality of providing information. personally, I'm also sick of big corporations playing bully on the 'net. if I can help teaching the schoolyard-bully to behave, I will. maybe countersuing for harrassment or getting the whole CSS licensing scheme declared unconstitutional will help.
while you are right, you are STILL talking from the perspective of a technical guy. to several people in managing the numbers simply won't mean a thing. all he cares for is the conclusion, the simpler the better.
so the REAL point would be:
a) yes, NT beat Linux. b) in a very specific setup c) with Linux coming in second, but with benchmark values much larger than our company will ever need. d) as soon as you figure costs into it (not licensing, but TOC), Linux wins.
I'm positive that anything even marginally more complicated and/or technical than this will fall on deaf ears anywhere outside the technical departments.
one more unrelated remark: people CAN do both, code and advocate. my personal contributions are small in both categories, but it makes a lot of sense to me to talk about what you're doing, instead of going with one or the other exclusively.
I hate to say it, but I think we lost this round, M$ wins. no, I'm not talking about the benchmarking. I'm talking about the non-acceptance of them. remember that M$ is a marketing company, and little else. no matter whether it's right or wrong, non-technical people simply STOP listening to technical details after a while. that point has been reached. when the Linux community screamed out about the first test, people listened, even in the mainstream. but now, for all THEY care, a new, fair test has been conducted, and any continued discussion on our part will appear as whining - no matter if it's legitimate. just look at all the anonymous coward postings on/. for examples.
fact is, M$ won this, because they can a) tell everyone how NT is superior to Linux (ignoring the fact, that this has only been proven for one specific setup under specific conditions) and b) point a finger at us for "whining" (ignoring the fact that we may have justified criticism).
maybe they were aiming at this goal all the time, maybe they're just picking up the chance. but one way or the other, from the MARKETING pov (and we all know that that's all M$ cares about), this has been a huge victory for them.
so I suggest everyone stop whining and go back coding. the time for criticism is past, like it or not. anything else you say be better damn constructive (in the sense of "we should fix this and it'll speed things up") or M$ will surely find a way to use it to THEIR advantage.
up to now, the word "troll" was used for usenet articles and comment systems like this one. infoworld, however, should be awarded a medal for making the word apply to articles in (online) magazines.
it's really getting obvious by now. write some crap about Linux, get a) praise and more ad money from M$ and b) the link posted on/. which yields you a 5-digit number of hits quickly, which again pleases your ad people.
rob, I request you don't link to those troll articles anymore. doing so just creates more of them.
I must apology for my lack of knowledge on this particular case. I was unaware of the details as you write them, because nothing like that was published over here.
my point was not that everyone should be sued for everything they're remotely responsible for.
my point was about that GROSS NEGLIGIENCE. everyone can make a mistake. but making the same well-known mistake over and over again is a different issue.
in other words, my employer can not fire me for trashing the network. (at least according to german laws he can't.) however, if I do it several times, always because I ignored basic procedures, then he very well can.
the #1 sickening thing about the whole melissa hype is how it distracts from the facts.
here we have a collection of well-known security holes practically screaming "exploit me". they should've been fixed for years, but instead they've been put deeper and deeper into the very design. yes, I'm flaming micro$oft, but it's not them alone. it's the armada of clueless who, far from being honest about what they know and what they know nothing about, not only BELIEVE, but carry the word along - "integration is good for the customer".
in my country (i.e. germany), when I break into a bank and it is found out that the bank's security company made my job considerably easier by leaving out standard security procedures or making serious mistakes that a security company really shouldn't make, it can be made liable for parts of the damage done. in the states, you have those idiot cases where macdonalds is sued for the same thing - negligience - because they forgot to tell some fool that hot coffee is, well, hot.
I wonder whether micro$oft will be sued for melissa-incurred damages. if you can sue macdonalds for hot coffee, than sure as hell you should sue micro$oft for gross negligience of basic security procedures.
the site was already down long before the story was posted on/. it was at game tome early this morning, at least six hours before it appeared here. and the server was already down by then.
any bets on how long it will take until the world at large realizes that M$ just won't deliver? maybe something called "nt 5" or "windows 2000" will actually be released some day, but it will be FAR from what has been promised in the previews starting 1996. they're just trying to blur the trail and confuse the customer in order to not make that TOO obvious.
let's hope there's at least a few journalist left who know someone who once met someone who has a clue.
while I agree that C is error-prone, it's also the most powerful language I've ever encountered, and that's exactly why I stick with it. C is very much like unix: more power than you can handle, and if you burn yourself, it's your fault. I've yet to find a C problem that way not caused by bad design and/or bad implementation. and taking care is the prize you pay for power. so if you can't handle it, then stay away from it. but stop telling me what to do. thank you.
dumb enough to run a closed-source os, that is. if they do it, I bet it'll be about 4 hrs. before a kernel-patch that shows arbitrary (and/or random) id's is available. of course, closed-source os'es will probably ride right along, happy to increase their "licensing" robbery.
Slashdot Mirror
we've all become used to the extreme US-centric of the 'net - but what exactly does a story like this do on a "stuff that matters" webpage???
excuse me, did you take the wrong medicine this morning?
I've had exposure to various server-side java applications for several years now - and it's the worst crap I've seen in my life. java is:
- slow
- resource hungry
- platform independent
let's see, on a server you are looking for:
- speed
- optimal resource usage
- a stable hardware/software platform to run on
yeah, fits perfectly.
should I mention that I've seen at least two java-server-side project with budgets in the millions fail horribly? no surprise everyone with real IT knowledge was telling them beforehand.
java on servers. get real.
shows that the US government can still take lessons from us (me being a german) when it comes to telling M$ to jump. :-)
I mean, you've been on this explorer thing for how long now? will it even matter anymore when the lawsuit is finally over?
yes, it's been done already. :)
/.)
(probably 500 additional times now that it's been on
done already - visit:
http://www.lemuria.org/decssREMOVEME/
why in all hell is /. falling for the same traps as the mainstream media, and devoting so much space to something that'll most likely go the way of NT (announced 3 years before it hit the shelves) ??
I wonder whether or not "business" is the correct term for these guys. the only other 500%+ margin "companies" I can come up with are mafia or drug lords.
two things that haven't been mentioned so far:
the whole Location Poisoning scheme is a mighty tracking system. since your ID stays the same among various sites, they can cooperate and pool the data you entered. your address here, your buying habbits there, a questionaire over there and the words you entered in that search engine - doubleclick was nothing, they only get the sites you visit, not what you enter there.
7val claims that they'll require customers to sign a contract that they won't do that. which to me has the base purpose of removing *7val* from responsibility. this SCREAMS abuse. I bet it will be used for profiling as described above.
now since (2nd thing not mentioned) 7val is in germany and applying for european patent, the EUROPEAN patent law applies, NOT the US which has been quoted here. in european patent law, patents can be refused if they are overtly abusive. for example, you couldn't patent something if it's only use is illegal. since Location Poisoning begs to be abused, and the "advantage" of following visitors even when they leave your site is one of its strong marketing points, I do believe a point can be made for the patent to be abusive in nature.
there actually is a difference.
the last two require that you change your links. the second might be accomplished with some nifty rewriting and might work very much like the first (7val) without the DNS trouble. it'll still break caching.
I don't think this is about DeCSS and Linux players. there's a bit more to it.
DVD CCA is in essence trying to monopolize a whole technology.
what they want is no road to DVD without a license from them. not only can you not play (decode) DVDs without a CSS license, you can also not create (encode) any. that's control of the player and content market at once - probably the only get-rich-quick scheme I've ever seen that has chances to work.
self-interest, of course, since licensing that technology is that small companies only reason of existence.
but it's not the court's job to protect a company from losing its profit because it f*cked up.
this lawsuit is definitely immoral, probably unconstitutional, and as GILC says: most likely in violation of the human right charter.
it undoubtly is not part of a free-world culture. this is corporate culture at 200% proof.
speaking as one of the defendants, I believe that the #1 reason for most of us to not simply fold, drop the links and go away is that we believe in the importance and legality of providing information. personally, I'm also sick of big corporations playing bully on the 'net. if I can help teaching the schoolyard-bully to behave, I will. maybe countersuing for harrassment or getting the whole CSS licensing scheme declared unconstitutional will help.
while you are right, you are STILL talking from the perspective of a technical guy. to several people in managing the numbers simply won't mean a thing. all he cares for is the conclusion, the simpler the better.
so the REAL point would be:
a) yes, NT beat Linux.
b) in a very specific setup
c) with Linux coming in second, but with benchmark values much larger than our company will ever need.
d) as soon as you figure costs into it (not licensing, but TOC), Linux wins.
I'm positive that anything even marginally more complicated and/or technical than this will fall on deaf ears anywhere outside the technical departments.
one more unrelated remark: people CAN do both, code and advocate. my personal contributions are small in both categories, but it makes a lot of sense to me to talk about what you're doing, instead of going with one or the other exclusively.
I hate to say it, but I think we lost this round, M$ wins. /. for examples.
no, I'm not talking about the benchmarking. I'm talking about the non-acceptance of them. remember that M$ is a marketing company, and little else. no matter whether it's right or wrong, non-technical people simply STOP listening to technical details after a while.
that point has been reached. when the Linux community screamed out about the first test, people listened, even in the mainstream. but now, for all THEY care, a new, fair test has been conducted, and any continued discussion on our part will appear as whining - no matter if it's legitimate.
just look at all the anonymous coward postings on
fact is, M$ won this, because they can a) tell everyone how NT is superior to Linux (ignoring the fact, that this has only been proven for one specific setup under specific conditions) and b) point a finger at us for "whining" (ignoring the fact that we may have justified criticism).
maybe they were aiming at this goal all the time, maybe they're just picking up the chance. but one way or the other, from the MARKETING pov (and we all know that that's all M$ cares about), this has been a huge victory for them.
so I suggest everyone stop whining and go back coding. the time for criticism is past, like it or not. anything else you say be better damn constructive (in the sense of "we should fix this and it'll speed things up") or M$ will surely find a way to use it to THEIR advantage.
up to now, the word "troll" was used for usenet articles and comment systems like this one. infoworld, however, should be awarded a medal for making the word apply to articles in (online) magazines.
/. which yields you a 5-digit number of hits quickly, which again pleases your ad people.
it's really getting obvious by now. write some crap about Linux, get a) praise and more ad money from M$ and b) the link posted on
rob, I request you don't link to those troll articles anymore. doing so just creates more of them.
I wonder whether or not this decision was influenced by the recent revealing information about the echolon system?
all Im waiting for is that international orders are possible (via creditcard).
Ive been waiting for civ3 forever. anyone knows whether itll be as configurable as civ2 was?
I must apology for my lack of knowledge on this particular case. I was unaware of the details as you write them, because nothing like that was published over here.
my point was not that everyone should be sued for everything they're remotely responsible for.
my point was about that GROSS NEGLIGIENCE. everyone can make a mistake. but making the same well-known mistake over and over again is a different issue.
in other words, my employer can not fire me for trashing the network. (at least according to german laws he can't.) however, if I do it several times, always because I ignored basic procedures, then he very well can.
the #1 sickening thing about the whole melissa hype is how it distracts from the facts.
here we have a collection of well-known security holes practically screaming "exploit me". they should've been fixed for years, but instead they've been put deeper and deeper into the very design.
yes, I'm flaming micro$oft, but it's not them alone. it's the armada of clueless who, far from being honest about what they know and what they know nothing about, not only BELIEVE, but carry the word along - "integration is good for the customer".
in my country (i.e. germany), when I break into a bank and it is found out that the bank's security company made my job considerably easier by leaving out standard security procedures or making serious mistakes that a security company really shouldn't make, it can be made liable for parts of the damage done.
in the states, you have those idiot cases where macdonalds is sued for the same thing - negligience - because they forgot to tell some fool that hot coffee is, well, hot.
I wonder whether micro$oft will be sued for melissa-incurred damages. if you can sue macdonalds for hot coffee, than sure as hell you should sue micro$oft for gross negligience of basic security procedures.
I haven't seen the details yet, but if it was a joke, I fell for it, hook and sinker.
though I don't think it's funny. not sure if I'd be able to make a joke about it when my domain and hobby get threatened.
we know they would fabricate evidence videos in a trial - we know because they did.
can you trust them running a benchmark on their own software? if nothing else, then the sql server is AT LEAST patched for this special case.
the site was already down long before the story was posted on /.
it was at game tome early this morning, at least six hours before it appeared here. and the server was already down by then.
any bets on how long it will take until the world at large realizes that M$ just won't deliver?
maybe something called "nt 5" or "windows 2000" will actually be released some day, but it will be FAR from what has been promised in the previews starting 1996. they're just trying to blur the trail and confuse the customer in order to not make that TOO obvious.
let's hope there's at least a few journalist left who know someone who once met someone who has a clue.
while I agree that C is error-prone, it's also the most powerful language I've ever encountered, and that's exactly why I stick with it.
C is very much like unix: more power than you can handle, and if you burn yourself, it's your fault. I've yet to find a C problem that way not caused by bad design and/or bad implementation.
and taking care is the prize you pay for power. so if you can't handle it, then stay away from it. but stop telling me what to do. thank you.
there's clearly at least one option missing from the poll, especially "I would if I *had* a copy".
dumb enough to run a closed-source os, that is. if they do it, I bet it'll be about 4 hrs. before a kernel-patch that shows arbitrary (and/or random) id's is available.
of course, closed-source os'es will probably ride right along, happy to increase their "licensing" robbery.