It just won't be physics, because if a missile system even looks like it's coming close to working, it'll have to deal with human ingenuity in addition to physics. Plain ol non-engineering me could come up with a few ways to counter the system (blind the system, convining decoys, lots of convinicing decoys, etc).
The simple fact of warfare is that defense costs so much more than offense, and is usually more specialized and hence more prone to obsoletion should any shifts in technology or tactics occur. Hell, the last really impressive and effective defensive weapons system was the wall.
The point is, how wise is it to spend untold billions of dollars to come up with a counter to a paradigm of the pre Sept 11 world, when you can spend the same billions to help you own people and allow them to come up with the next great offensive weapons system?
Now if this entire thing was energy-weapon based, it would be worth it. But throwing missiles at each other? C'mon...
I really do think that you're missing the point of all this. The fact that China has been able to do this in !ten to twenty! years is the real story. Almost no other country in the world has modernized this quickly, and considering China's size and intractable poverty when it came out of the 70's, all of this really is a goddamn miracle. I mean, it took the Japanese 20 years to rebuild, and that's when they had massive American aid and a skilled labor force to work with. China didn't have either; it managed to suck (or sucker) in huge amounts of foreign investment all by itself, and after the seventies when even the schools were shut down because of the chaos of the Cultural Revolution, they are starting to graduate more trained engineers than the US. I mean, let's give credit where credit is due here folks.
yeah, whatever those guys above said. Nagasaki and Hiroshima were actually saved to be bombed when the Manhattan Project started. Kyoto and uh...I forgot but one other city was on that very short list. Everything else got flattened. As far as I'm concerned, the Japanese were paid in full for what they did to others in World War II.
Yeah, early 90's, that's your problem. There's been a vast sea change in the past decade. Any area of China between Hong Kong and Tianjin will have undergone major change in this past decade. You should go back now and see what changes have occurred. I'm willing to bet you'd be quite surprised.
Yeah, you realize of course that a majority of those poverty stricken Chinese people usually go back after making enough money. There are some immigrants who come to the west for political, cultural as well as economic opportunity, but many more come just to make some money so they can go home and make more. That's why China's the fastest growing economy in the world. It's like 1.3 billion people woke up one morning and were like "Holy crap, we're communists, we aren't allowed to make lots of money. That's change that, right freakin' now." And there ya go...
Actually, Tiananmen square happened not because the students were protesting, and not even because the world press made it into the story of the year, but because the movement looked to be a genuine mass movement. Teachers, professionals, journalists, party members, and most threatening of all, urban laborers were beginning to join the protests. The students were just a bunch of kids that when left to their own devices, set up a "democracy" that hardly differed from the communist party heirarchy. It was everybody else that got the government worried enough to roll out its tanks...
Before I say anything, I would like to clarify that I actually voted for Bush, but since I live in New York City, I might as well have voted for a bag of lettuce. In any event, I was actually a volunteer of Howard Dean, but in the end I simply could not believe John Kerry had the resolution to wage the war in Iraq Bush walked us into. It's very difficult for me to say this, but I feel that only Bush can possibly dig us out of the hole he got us in, assuming because he doesn't dig a deeper one.
But that being said, I'm just as surprised by anyone that apparently we are in the midst of the Third (maybe fourth) Great Awakening. Religious issues now apparently dominate the political landscape, either that or the Bush played the electorate brilliantly this year. Personally, I really do think that most Americans are much more right of center than people in the blue states ever realize. Bush did a spectular job mobilizing this vote, and I say kudos to him for running a good campaign. I am, however, extremely disappointed by what the kind of "religious" values were afforded the most importance by the voters. Abortion I can legitimately see a religious movement having a point, but Gay Marriage? For Christ's sake, Jesus did not tell us to go forward and defend "traditional family values". "For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law, and a man's foes will be those of his own household. He who loves his father or mother more than me isnot worthy of me, and he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me..." Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 10, Verses 34-37, Oxford Annotated Bible, 1973/77. It's sad that many Christians would read the Bible every day but forget the context in which the true Jesus actually preached and what he actually preached. They would not be recognized by Christ if he should return today.
I'm sure the emperors would have rather had those workers build new palaces or canals, but the walls were usually failed attempts to define Chinese areas of control on the Outer Steppes.
This is my first post, so please gentle.
I am Chinese-American who emigrated to the US at a very young age and has since then returned as a study abroad student. I have been in many a "wangba" [Chinese for internet cafe] and I want to put all of this non-sense in perspective:
1.)Dissidents don't usually frequent wangbas because doing something politically insensitive in a wangba doesn't just endanger yourself, it endangers the owners and potentially the other patrons.
2.)It's mostly kids at these wangbas, doing exactly what the government says it's cracking down on: downloading porn and playing CS [and they were scary good at the latter; I'm a fairly competent CS player, but in this tiny ass village in Southwest China without even a single paved road I got my ass handed back to me by these 13 year old kids]
3.)The Great Firewall is about as effective as the regular Great Wall was, which is to say, it's not terribly effective. I would have to say I've been to two dozen different wangbas all over China, and it's hit or miss whether or not I can access the so called prohibited sites. New York Times was okay in most places, ditto with CNN. All the Tibetan Independence sites [I tried out of curiosity] were much more frequently blocked, and Amnesty Int'l is similarily more difficult to access. This leads into my fourth point...
4.)There are 1.8 million [that's million] of these wangbas all over China. 1.8 million. The way the Chinese government is set up, with it's extremly heirarchical (sp?), top-down, Central to Regional to Provincial to Local structure, the only way the government can manage to keep track of all of those 1.8 million internet bars is through one of those ubiquitious government "anti-something" campaigns, and even then only for a very short period of time before the various levels of the heiarchy return back to their normal state of resistance/grudging cooperation with each other. Basically, not only was the number of 18K bars shut down ridiculously small, there's a good chance, now that the government anti-smut/anti-video game violence/anti whatever campaign is over, that a good deal of those bars shut down would open themselves up, with the implicit approval of the local authorities, without so much as an iota of "rectification" carried out. This is just the way the Chinese government works, in all it's magnificently inefficient glory.
5.)Contrary to the generally libertarian impulse here in the US, I would have to say that a vast majority of the Chinese people would expect the government to creat and enforce morality laws. Whether you agree with it or not, or if you think that that isn't the "natural" and correct way for a government to act, it's what the Chinese expect the government to do for them. They have a very different set of implicit expectations for what a government does and what it's responsible for, and especially what its role in society is. I haven't been closely following this latest anti-violence/anti-smut campaign very closely, but I would hazard a guess that the campaign was mostly either received with a lukewarm welcome or total indifference. If the government goes over the bounds and uses this campaign as an excuse to shut down some wangbas or other internet meeting places for allowing access to politically sensitive information, then a great majority of the population would see that as an acceptable trade-off for dealing with the preceived problem of underage access to porn and violent games. This is simply how the society and the culture are in China. I'm not saying if it's right or wrong, but I'm just saying that's reality, and in reality, [here comes the really overextended metaphor] a boiling hot sulphur spring might seem like perfect hell for you but I bet the thermophile organisms that thrive there can't imagine any other way to live.
Slashdot Mirror
A movie that really hasn't even been released yet sold out. Twice. Yeah, that happens all the freakin time. [does the sarcasm wave]
It just won't be physics, because if a missile system even looks like it's coming close to working, it'll have to deal with human ingenuity in addition to physics. Plain ol non-engineering me could come up with a few ways to counter the system (blind the system, convining decoys, lots of convinicing decoys, etc).
The simple fact of warfare is that defense costs so much more than offense, and is usually more specialized and hence more prone to obsoletion should any shifts in technology or tactics occur. Hell, the last really impressive and effective defensive weapons system was the wall.
The point is, how wise is it to spend untold billions of dollars to come up with a counter to a paradigm of the pre Sept 11 world, when you can spend the same billions to help you own people and allow them to come up with the next great offensive weapons system?
Now if this entire thing was energy-weapon based, it would be worth it. But throwing missiles at each other? C'mon...
"F bombs during awards shows (by foreign music
acts no less)"
U2 is more American than most American acts.
And after having the 6th opening week with a #1 selling album, Bono has earned the right to carpet the Grammy's with F-bombs if he so wishes.
Viva la Edge!
This message was brought to you by a shameless U2 fan.
I think that's the Matrix
I really do think that you're missing the point of all this. The fact that China has been able to do this in !ten to twenty! years is the real story. Almost no other country in the world has modernized this quickly, and considering China's size and intractable poverty when it came out of the 70's, all of this really is a goddamn miracle. I mean, it took the Japanese 20 years to rebuild, and that's when they had massive American aid and a skilled labor force to work with. China didn't have either; it managed to suck (or sucker) in huge amounts of foreign investment all by itself, and after the seventies when even the schools were shut down because of the chaos of the Cultural Revolution, they are starting to graduate more trained engineers than the US. I mean, let's give credit where credit is due here folks.
Or working with Saudi Arabia right now (not exactly the hotspot for liberal democracy in the world)
yeah, whatever those guys above said. Nagasaki and Hiroshima were actually saved to be bombed when the Manhattan Project started. Kyoto and uh...I forgot but one other city was on that very short list. Everything else got flattened. As far as I'm concerned, the Japanese were paid in full for what they did to others in World War II.
Yeah, early 90's, that's your problem. There's been a vast sea change in the past decade. Any area of China between Hong Kong and Tianjin will have undergone major change in this past decade. You should go back now and see what changes have occurred. I'm willing to bet you'd be quite surprised.
Yeah, you realize of course that a majority of those poverty stricken Chinese people usually go back after making enough money. There are some immigrants who come to the west for political, cultural as well as economic opportunity, but many more come just to make some money so they can go home and make more. That's why China's the fastest growing economy in the world. It's like 1.3 billion people woke up one morning and were like "Holy crap, we're communists, we aren't allowed to make lots of money. That's change that, right freakin' now." And there ya go...
Actually, Tiananmen square happened not because the students were protesting, and not even because the world press made it into the story of the year, but because the movement looked to be a genuine mass movement. Teachers, professionals, journalists, party members, and most threatening of all, urban laborers were beginning to join the protests. The students were just a bunch of kids that when left to their own devices, set up a "democracy" that hardly differed from the communist party heirarchy. It was everybody else that got the government worried enough to roll out its tanks...
Before I say anything, I would like to clarify that I actually voted for Bush, but since I live in New York City, I might as well have voted for a bag of lettuce. In any event, I was actually a volunteer of Howard Dean, but in the end I simply could not believe John Kerry had the resolution to wage the war in Iraq Bush walked us into. It's very difficult for me to say this, but I feel that only Bush can possibly dig us out of the hole he got us in, assuming because he doesn't dig a deeper one. But that being said, I'm just as surprised by anyone that apparently we are in the midst of the Third (maybe fourth) Great Awakening. Religious issues now apparently dominate the political landscape, either that or the Bush played the electorate brilliantly this year. Personally, I really do think that most Americans are much more right of center than people in the blue states ever realize. Bush did a spectular job mobilizing this vote, and I say kudos to him for running a good campaign. I am, however, extremely disappointed by what the kind of "religious" values were afforded the most importance by the voters. Abortion I can legitimately see a religious movement having a point, but Gay Marriage? For Christ's sake, Jesus did not tell us to go forward and defend "traditional family values". "For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law, and a man's foes will be those of his own household. He who loves his father or mother more than me isnot worthy of me, and he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me..." Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 10, Verses 34-37, Oxford Annotated Bible, 1973/77. It's sad that many Christians would read the Bible every day but forget the context in which the true Jesus actually preached and what he actually preached. They would not be recognized by Christ if he should return today.
Compared to those kids in Korea and China, nobody can play CS for shit :)
I'm sure the emperors would have rather had those workers build new palaces or canals, but the walls were usually failed attempts to define Chinese areas of control on the Outer Steppes.
This is my first post, so please gentle. I am Chinese-American who emigrated to the US at a very young age and has since then returned as a study abroad student. I have been in many a "wangba" [Chinese for internet cafe] and I want to put all of this non-sense in perspective: 1.)Dissidents don't usually frequent wangbas because doing something politically insensitive in a wangba doesn't just endanger yourself, it endangers the owners and potentially the other patrons. 2.)It's mostly kids at these wangbas, doing exactly what the government says it's cracking down on: downloading porn and playing CS [and they were scary good at the latter; I'm a fairly competent CS player, but in this tiny ass village in Southwest China without even a single paved road I got my ass handed back to me by these 13 year old kids] 3.)The Great Firewall is about as effective as the regular Great Wall was, which is to say, it's not terribly effective. I would have to say I've been to two dozen different wangbas all over China, and it's hit or miss whether or not I can access the so called prohibited sites. New York Times was okay in most places, ditto with CNN. All the Tibetan Independence sites [I tried out of curiosity] were much more frequently blocked, and Amnesty Int'l is similarily more difficult to access. This leads into my fourth point... 4.)There are 1.8 million [that's million] of these wangbas all over China. 1.8 million. The way the Chinese government is set up, with it's extremly heirarchical (sp?), top-down, Central to Regional to Provincial to Local structure, the only way the government can manage to keep track of all of those 1.8 million internet bars is through one of those ubiquitious government "anti-something" campaigns, and even then only for a very short period of time before the various levels of the heiarchy return back to their normal state of resistance/grudging cooperation with each other. Basically, not only was the number of 18K bars shut down ridiculously small, there's a good chance, now that the government anti-smut/anti-video game violence/anti whatever campaign is over, that a good deal of those bars shut down would open themselves up, with the implicit approval of the local authorities, without so much as an iota of "rectification" carried out. This is just the way the Chinese government works, in all it's magnificently inefficient glory. 5.)Contrary to the generally libertarian impulse here in the US, I would have to say that a vast majority of the Chinese people would expect the government to creat and enforce morality laws. Whether you agree with it or not, or if you think that that isn't the "natural" and correct way for a government to act, it's what the Chinese expect the government to do for them. They have a very different set of implicit expectations for what a government does and what it's responsible for, and especially what its role in society is. I haven't been closely following this latest anti-violence/anti-smut campaign very closely, but I would hazard a guess that the campaign was mostly either received with a lukewarm welcome or total indifference. If the government goes over the bounds and uses this campaign as an excuse to shut down some wangbas or other internet meeting places for allowing access to politically sensitive information, then a great majority of the population would see that as an acceptable trade-off for dealing with the preceived problem of underage access to porn and violent games. This is simply how the society and the culture are in China. I'm not saying if it's right or wrong, but I'm just saying that's reality, and in reality, [here comes the really overextended metaphor] a boiling hot sulphur spring might seem like perfect hell for you but I bet the thermophile organisms that thrive there can't imagine any other way to live.