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Kerry Concedes Election To Bush
WilliamGeorge points to this MSNBC story "that presidential candidate John Kerry has called George W Bush to concede the election. So it is over, and without a lot of extra fuss and recounts."
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And let us move back to our normal bickering of Linux vs. BSD.
I guess I better learn the rest of that.
paintball
It's a sad sad day for 50% of America.
Sheesh, what am I going to do for entertainment between now and Thanksgiving?
A big win for Republicans all around. NICE!!
Liberty and Freedom
1776-2004
R.I.P.
woohoo it is over!
what a shame, kerry would of lead the country in a better direction. it is truly a shame we have to wait another 4 years for some improvement to happen to this country
GODDAMMIT.
Not only will we now see four more years of Bush, we'll also see Hillary '08...
Time to buy my own private island.
So we saw this coming, I suppose, and while most of us do not like it, it is finished. This is a testament both to Kerry's character as well as America's democratic process. I wish the candidates the best of luck now that it is over, and I hope that America does not go to hell.
woohoo go me!
what happened??
bush p4nd3d k3rry!
what the hell? where's everyone ranting?
Can someone tell me where I can sign-up for the upcoming Civil War?
4 years closer to Wal-Mart Nation... let's go get some NASCAR shit and go off to church!
I'm on top of my game like I'm standin' on Xbox.
This beats what happened four years ago. Now business and the markets can get back on focus.
- Nick Donovan
Al Gore did the same thing in 2000 - then called Bush again to take back his concession. We'll see if Kerry takes a similar route. Although, it seems pretty obvious that Ohio isn't going to go for Kerry so the result isn't heavily in doubt, except in the minds of Kerry supporters who aren't good at math.
THIS ACCOUNT IS OFFICIALLY RETIRED/RETARDED.
Shares in law firms take massive dive
in Ohio if those districts were given enough voting machines to get people through the polling places. people waited 9 hours!!!!
not to mention all the democrats that flipped!!! I hope they rot in hell!!!
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
The last thing this nation needs is another drawn out court battle to decide the presidency. Kerry did the honorable thing considering his slim-none chances of pulling Ohio out.
Life will go on. It's a sad day for sure, but life will go on. We are all Americans, first and foremost.
-- jimmycarter
I'm moving to Canada.
At least kerry didn't drag the democrats through the mud with legal battles, and recounts... best part, no hanging chads this year!
A sad day for generic characters everywhere.
At least John Stewart, Bill Maher, SNL and standup comedians everywhere will have material for four more years! That's good, right? Eh? Eh?
While I am no Bush supporter, I want to congratulate him on his victory. And I sincerely hope that he will take great steps to heal the wounds on this country inflicted by both the events of the past 4 years and a VERY bitter election.
ATTN: 51% of voters
RE: you being gormless, easily duped intellectual dungheaps
Just wanted to establish that whatever fucked-up shit comes down on all of our heads over the next four years...it's all your fault.
I am no longer blaming Bush or Cheney or Karl Rove or anybody else in the NeoCon coven. You can't blame them for being evil, hateful warmongering fuckshits any more than you can blame a gun for shooting bullets. But YOU ASSHOLES let them get away with it for four more years.
A tidal wave of blood coming down on us all from the next terrorist disaster? YOUR FAULT.
Military draft stealing away the lives of an entire generation of young Americans (and then some)? YOUR FAULT.
Perpetual wars in the Middle East making Orwellian nightmares seem like tinkertoys in the sandbox? YOUR FAULT.
A ruined economy and ecology, a Constitution left in tatters, a tyranny of wealthy white "Christians" who are anything but? YOUR FAULT.
The rest of the world abandoning us when we'll need it most (and don't say it won't happen)? YOUR FAULT.
Future decades upon future decades spent living down Bush's legacy and repairing the damage to the country and the world? YOUR FAULT.
Making this planet a less prosperous and peaceful place in which to raise my future child? YOUR FUCKING FAULT, YOU FUCKING FUCKING CUNTING FUCKS.
I hope you're quite pleased. I hope you enjoy the tax cuts and the military dick-waving and the surge of pride you must feel when Bush stands in front of a flag he has never for a moment of his life defended. I wish you all a free copy of "My Pet Goat" and a frosty flagon of the blood if Iraqui innocents. Drink fast, it gets warm so quickly.
Just remember, when you and I are both up against the wall, the last thing you'll see before we're both shot in the head is my finger raised in accusation against you. And it won't be my index finger.
Drop me if you want. Hate me if you want. I don't give a shit. Fuck all 'yall.
is the link to the Draft-Dodging HOWTO.
No more political ads on TV or the Radio! No more taped phone calls! No more litigation to win the presidency?
I suppose that one can only assume that Kerry's campaign knows something of the numbers that we do not... There was still a possibility that the uncounted provisional and absentee ballots could have closed the gap in Ohio.
If mine was one of those votes, I'd be pissed.
Mod parent up - that's as close to the truth as I can articulate at this moment.
It's being widely reported by the AP, CNN, Fox News, CSPAN, ABC News, CBS News and others that John Kerry has already called Pres. Bush to concede defeat. Apparently he'll speak to the nation at 1:00 PM EST.
I personally am glad that Kerry has done this. My opinion of him has gone up and I am glad that he will not try to divide the country further by dragging us through a contested election. Mr. Kerry, thank you for that.
And congratulations to Pres. Bush.
infested with jello like fishes no melotron wishes
Gotta remember to call all the Bush supporters I know and thank them for their voting me a nice extended tour of the Middle East.
While it was certainly a hard-fought race, one that was quite heated at times, the people have spoken and I am glad that our country will not be forced to endure weeks of court battles over the results.
Long live the Boy King!
Newcomers Guide To Canada
here's to 4 more years of continuous war,
and a greater divide between the rich and the poor.
Sees The Day
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Congratulations to America on electing the morally bankrupt government it truly deserves!
I just hope for all of the American people that Dubya doesn't do anything that will make rest of the world hate you even more.
This is a sad day.
It cannot be.
Congratulations.
In the South and Midwest, I'm surrounded by them.
losers
...lets out a resounding "Aw, crap."
How can FOXNews and CNN be sooo different in reporting?
well guys, here goes your high tech jobs. Remember, smile when you say 'do you want fries with that'
It isn't over just yet. There are plenty of Democratic-friendly lawyers that will be happy to file lawsuits in Ohio, with or without Kerry support.
Two words
Welcome, friend!
The only question in my mind is what form will the other two Horsemen take?
At least I don't have to update my .sig
Some silver lining.
Bush Lies On the Record.
I'm glad not to be stuck with seeing Kerry on the news for four years, but I'd have liked to have at least one house in Congress controlled by the opposition. That way, we might be able to get a better check on spending for the next term.
It's good to use your head, but not as a battering ram.
This shows that at least he's a little more sane that Algore.
Good for America, some continuity.
'til the fatlady counts the provisional votes in Ohio.
He shouldn't given up so soon. What kind of lawyer is he?
Lets see who has their job left in the next four years
At least it looks like someone actually won!!! At least this time Bush has some legitimacy (though I'm sure Democrats will still argue this) by winning the popular vote.
The 49% who voted for Kerry, and the 51% who are morons.
paintball
The headline says he called Bush to concede. The story doesn't. This is a crucial distinction.
Why not wait it out?
HAVE YOU ALL GONE MAD??
The sign stealing Kerry fanatics can finally go home...
Where's Lee Harvey Oswald when you need him? Thanks for nothing, Jack Ruby.
I'm typing as fast as I can, but I'm pretty sure this comment is already redundant.
Anonymous Kev
Proudly posting as AC since 1997
(Finally got a dang account in 2004)
I for one welcome our re-elected overlord.
From the bottom of our collective hearts:
We're sorry.
I'm sure future historians will mark this day as the offical turning point of the fall and decline of the American empire. We had a good run; good luck to the next guy.
- Despite popular opinion, I am not perfect.
There turned out to be fewer provisional ballots than they thought, and not enough to put them over the top. It was an impossible battle.
I'm confused, the race is really close (252/254) with at least one major swing state still not finished counting and with the race there still at 50%/49% or so. I thought that if it was a tight race you didn't give up.
*sigh*
http://www.autofrog.com/~chrisp/tv/cnn.jpg
Have to give it to Kerry - he was honourable enough not to try to drag this out. As I hope Bush would have been if it had gone the other way.
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
Another 4 years we have to put up woth good ole' looks-like-a-monkey dolt boy.
...the productivity of every individual in the country with an internet connection should double versus yesterday
Hunger is the best sauce.
Choose someone in the primaries that is truly electable? Not necessarily a Southerner, but Edwards would have done it for example. Keep sending those Northern Liberals up, keep seeing them fall.
:)
Another trend to note...compare the actual electoral votes in the North versus the South in 2000. As the population moves south and west so do the electoral votes, and so does the power.
The south is rising...again
Well at least we still have a president with the authority to launch nucular weapons instead of a new guy with nuclear ones. CMIAW, but I think nuclear bombs are bigger, right?
(unfounded rumor of course)
There are reports going around that the exit polls match the results in states with electronic voting WITH an audit trail, but that in states with e-voting and no audit trail, the final results show about a 5% bump for Bush. Hmmm. Diebold did promise to deliver, right?
What will Bush do this term?
I'm hiding right here.
Ok. Everyone who threatened to move if Bush wins, you need to start packing your bags. Put up or shut up!!
Well, Kerry conceded, but could he still win? At the time of this writing, Ohio still hasn't called in, (Bush-254 Kerry-252) so it is still up in the air. What if Ohio called in for Kerry? Would he win? Or is his concession legaly binding? Or does Ohio simply stop counting?
Looks like Kerry took the high road and decided to avoid a long drawn out affair. New Mexico and Iowa don't mean anything at this point, with Ohio representing the presidency.
I've seen reports of anywhere from 100,000 to 250,000 provisional votes, plus absentee ballots, plus recounts where necessary, still all hanging in the balance. Its a slim chance, but Kerry could still possibly win it if he pressed ahead with a long, drawn out legal battle. I'm assuming that his concession is a statement that he will not lead the Democrats down that road for the good of the country.
Ohio still has the responsibility of counting those ballots, though.
John Maynard Keynes: "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?"
I didn't vote for him but I respect Kerry for not further dividing the country with all the recounts and mess of 2000 (yet at least.) It shows me that he truly does have the contries best intersts in mind as opposed to Gore who just wanted to be president.
Didn't Gore concede and the "un-concede" back in 2000 too though?
Not everything is analogous to cars. Car analogies rarely work.
Worst yet, my Redskins lost their final home before the election for nothing!
Yeah? Well I think you're overrated too.
Now maybe Bush can get around to doing some of the things that he thought might not get him re-elected during the first term...lets see. Iran, North Korea, ummm...who else? Also...anybody else see what oil prices are doing?
So much for the democrat theory that record turnouts would obviously mean good news for Kerry. Bush won more votes than any other President in our Nation's history. The American people have spoken, and spoken loudly.
Netcraft has confirmed bush is a moron
Here in San Diego the write in candidate for mayor is leading right now. Two well funded guys are being humiliated by a surfer girl. Gnarly.
What if Digg added local news and a Slashdot inspired comment karma system? ---
http://houndwire.com
central states are all republican
Americans can no longer say "That's just the president's doing, not the American people." when we are accosted overseas. I hang my head in shame to say that I am an American now.
We don't hide
Thank God that silly 'election' is over, now I can go back to worrying about the New England Patriots (American) Football team.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
hahaha, the dems got OWNED. The liberal media, puffy, and Slashdot couldn't get the job done. Doesn't anyone find it sad that Slashdot is on the same side as "p-diddy" and traditional media?
He's got a lot of people he has to kill now.
Yea! Glad the slashot poll wasn't reflective of the general population. So now we can get back to tech threads for another four years. ok, except for a ten minute hate every morning against: (pick one at random)
1. GWB
2. ASHCROFT! (boo hiss)
3. The PATRIOT Act (the horror!)
4. Iraq
Ok, so nothing has really changed.
Democrat delenda est
...want to welcome our new Republican legislative and executive overlords. I look forward to mandatory Sunday School for at least the next 2 years. My parents (Baptists) will be proud.
Seriously, though -- I was torn between Bush and Kerry this election, and I yearned for a viable third-party candidate with which to speak using my vote.
I'll be honest -- I voted for Bush, but I was ready to select some Democratic and Libertarian representatives in state government and Congress. To each his own, I say.
And I'm also ready to say "Thank you" to Kerry for being a semi-decent sport and not going nuts like Gore did in 2000. It's the first time I've felt some genuine respect for the man -- the fact that he conceded before lawyering up scores high marks in my mind. Perhaps a sign that, despite his political ambitions, he was willing to accept a less than desirable outcome early on and avoid having America trounced in legal hubbub for the next several weeks.
My 2 cents.
IronChefMorimoto
I just can not fathom how many people in the States are willing to believe the lies. This is a tragic moment in history, dooming America to four years of decent into a new dark age. It will take a generation or more to repair the damage.
.....welcome the return of our Texan overlords
Yay!
"There's no set architecture in Linux. All roads lead to madness" -Microsoft
I think the voters made the right decision yesterday. It was a record turnout, more Americans went to the polls in this election than any election before, and they chose George W. Bush to lead them as their next president.
The reason the Democrats lost this election was that they nominated a complete idiot. Yes, let's face it, Kerry was not fit to be president -- he was a complete demagogue who told the people only what they wanted to hear, and refused to take a stand on anything. If someone like Howard Dean were nominated then I think we'd have a Democrat president right now. Yes, Dean is more liberal than most of America, but people can respect him because he's principled.
Anyway, I'm going to party like it's 1776, because a victory for Bush is a victory for America.
And don't blame me...I voted for Kodos.
Open Source, verifiable votes.
Make this a priority now.
the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
Anyone know of some good websites on moving out of the US?
I cant be in a place where the majority of people are uninformed.
See ya America...
Terry McAulliff will almost have to be fired as head of the DNC.
"My head hurts, My feet stink, and I dont love Jesus." -Jimmy Buffett
I find it so sad that the people who voted Bush by and large will be dead or retired by the time the economic effects of another 4 years of Bush hits America... ... and yet the younger people who will end up paying back the huge deficit by and large could not even be bothered to vote :(
:(
I just do not understand it, I really don't
Well, I'm sure the democrats are going to be calling foul here at some point in time.
Lets see, what did Bush do to win the election this time?
*sigh*
There is a reason why democrats have lost the house, senate and white house again... and its because their ideals are not cutting it anymore.
i cant seem to come up with a sig.
Americans really REALLY hate Arabs. And gays. That shouldn't really surprise anyone, really.
...with all of the conspiracy theories, about how the country will self-destruct, the world as we know it will end...
Aren't people tired of predicting the end of the world? Call me crazy, but I think we'll still be around 4 years from now with another successful election taking place.
"A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
One note from looking at the results is that it seems like in vrey few (if any) races were independant votes any kind of factor. I fear that third party candidate vote totals were lower than ever.
So the next time you feel compelled to vote for a major party, consider this - would a vate for Nader or Badnarik really have been wasted given that Kerry did not win anyway? If anyone really wanted to vote for a third party but instead voted for Kerry they essentially wasted thier vote twice over.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
FOUR MORE YEARS!
Very little else of this thread will be funny, insightful, or anything other than more yelling, name-calling, and flamebait.
Soros has been pwned /mod me down/flame me i don't care
Right here!
Why is it that so many people get their view of the world from Slashdot? People take it (slashdot) way too seriously.
Scientists discovered a "hellmouth" in washington, DC today. The hellmouth, formerly thought to be a fictional idea, popularized by the Buffy The Vampire Slayer series, is a gateway to hell, which serves as a nexus of evil. Many consider the appearance of the hellmouth to be a symbol of the coming apocalypse.
Despite the alleged "split" in the country.... 1) There were no riots in the street. 2) All candidates who started the election process are still alive today. 3) No cities are on fire and there is no looting 4) We all witnessed a historical election which will set the tone for the next generation and we all traveled to work as if it was a normal day. This is the process that the founding fathers envisioned. In an election where more people voted than ever before we should stop and think what we have accomplished . It is great to be an American
I just want to know when the process became about picking the president the fastest, as opposed to hearing the "voice" of the people? Whatever that voice may be saying.
where are we going now?
and why are we in this handbasket?!?!
I'm fairly tired of the argument that it's not good for the rest of the world. The rest of the world can't seem to manage its own economy (see europe, and basically anywhere else that isn't the US, China, or South Korea). The rest of the world takes a calculated blind eye on terrorism, knowing that America will probably be the target and/or come to the defense of anyone hit hard. The rest of the world doesn't set much of an example for everyone else to follow.
Andrew Tanenbum where are you now.....?
No. No. I'm pretty sure it's over. Let me check... Yep. It's over!! Better luck next time.
it is official, OHIO is a states of idiots. they were hit the hardest of any state with unemployment and many other problems and they ended up voting for bush because he is a "Moral" man...
oh that and the Democratic precincts had 1 voting machine per polling place.... yeah, that will help keep the Kerry supporters from being heard.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Maybe it has to get REALLY bad before Americans see the light.
When Bush starts his next war: remember the draft he starts is what you wanted and voted for.
I could cry.
I'm already in Canada though. =)
The Democrats got their asses handed to them.
After the first term of this President, what does it honestly take to not get re-elected?
The Democratic party must be doing something terribly wrong to not only lose what should have been a gimme in the Presidential race, but to also lose seats in both the Senate *AND* House.
Democrats need to get their act together big time. They better hope they can come up with a better canidate for 2008.
-----
How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?
Illinois looks kinda central to me. Kerry got their electoral votes.
At 30 and I can say, as a canadian, that I will do everything in my power to make sure that, someday, the USA will see what a mistake they have made.
What a horrible thing that has happened. The sheep of america have been lead into another term of murder and lies.
This is the start of the end of the world. Two LARGE factions of religion fighting for domination of the planet.
I really hope that something happens to get bush out before the 4 years are over.
I give up, you people "F**Ked" up again, I guess USA #1!! means too much down there.
I really do know KungFu
For democracy. Bush/Kerry it doesnt matter. I will remember today as the day democracy died.
http://blackboxvoting.org/
I refuse to believe, with Ohio so close that Kerry has conceeded, especially under the pretext that Deibold was to "Deliver OHIO to president Bush in 2004"
But I'm just a concerned canuck. Did you know these same machines are to be put into use in our country. Take a stand and insist on a paper ballot!
---Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A START
So you're not into democracy anymore? What a shock.
It's good to use your head, but not as a battering ram.
Why would the US re-elect a leader who so obviously robbed the national treasure, with war as the ruse, and gave it to industrial elite (his base)?
Make me a disappointed Canadian. Still, Bravo Kerry for making a good run, and for conceding, rather than dragging your nation though a long, drawn-out debacle.
Given that Bush lost the popular vote last time, and still won (sort of) the presidency, I guess it's rather suiting that the pesident at least has the popular vote this time. Given how contentious that was last time around, this is at least refreshing.
Note to the Republicans: Look at the backlash of public reprisal coming from several areas (youth, entertainers, etc). You have to do better; eventually the public as a whole will wise up to fear-mongering.
Note to Independents: this could be your chance. A lot of people hate Bush. Get your parties into the public spotlight, and either win more seats or at least force the Democrats to actually act like Democrats again.
Note to Democrats: You have four years to find a dynamic, charismatic leader; a true visionary who can unseat the current Bush autocracy by winning the public's hearts. If you keep putting forth less-than-ideal candidates, you will never truly win. You can't rely on enough people voting against the GOP to count on a win.
Note to Steve Jobs: You are dynamic, charistmatic and visionary. See note above.
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one " -Albert Einstein
you, dear sire, seem to have forgotten to take your pills this morning...
I bet Kerry was up all night with nightmares about the Governator coming after his ass with a shotgun and/or 18-wheeler.
...what happens if those provisional ballots in Phio start to make things tighter?
And yes, I'll ask, since this is the Year of the Sox Series Win.
Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
yeah, you are right. I can't believe how stupid people are. Remember, though, that Americans who travel abroad tend to be more democratic [little d] then the general population. I travel abroad a lot, and I voted for Kerry in Ohio, so please don't hate me.
yet, strangely enough I feel very distressed.
Fuck, its not my country, and I'm very depressed.
Timang tinggi tinggi
parang sudah asah
alang alang mandi
biar sampai basah
Haha, I love it when you tell someone else they're immature AND pig-headed in the same sentence...
feh. stuff.
It feels like the closing days of the Weimar Republic - you short lived humans are truly stupid.
beers..... 4 more beers.
(overheard at a bar near Democratic headquarters)
I voted. I did not vote for either Kerry or Bush. I dislike Bush. However, that, in my mind, is not a reason to vote for Kerry. I found Kerry ran as the "I'm not Bush" candidate. Even his official site was devoid of specifics on Kerry's views.
Both parties have gone away from the basics of what has made their parties strong, and have instead chosen to court small percentages of the populous. And this has gotten worse over the couple decades I have followed politics. Reagan and Clinton have been strong leaders... but otherwise....
Anyhow, my point. I have realized that voting is not the best way to exercise my civic duty. I need to get involved in a couple single-issue organizations, and support them. People complain about PACs, and their influence on politics. I say that PACs are the only way to get the system changed. I also find that when I have invested myself into something that I am less 'disenfrachised'.
If you're one of the folks that is threatening to move out of the US now -- don't let the door smack you on the butt on your way out. Believe it or not, this country has been more divided and more ugly at several points in its history. It took committed citizens to pull the US back together.
Not sure why I'm posting this. But I wanted to share my thoughts!
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
I can't find the right word. Annoyed? Depressed? Flustered? None of them carry the meaning for me.
This was not Bush's election to win. This was Kerry's election to lose. And man, did he lose.
When will the democratic party realize that they need to get in the game, play it tough? America doesn't want a smarty pants North Eastener with a fake politican smile a mile wide. America obviously responds to the aw shucks grin, the not too einstein but firmly resolved mindset.
When will we realize that whining about problems won't work when the majority of the population doesn't want to think about problems? They want a bed time story, and someone to turn the light on and off for them.
When will the democrats grow a fucking backbone and nominate a real candidate? I swear this makes me think of the axiom that, at heart, democrats are goths. They love losing, and lamenting about losing.
Kerry's campaign was self destructing a week before it won Iowa. I don't think they ever got a campaign together that worked. There was no clear delivery, no clear ideology, NO RESPONSE to the clear Republican attacks. When Kerry won the primary I was flabbergasted. I figured we probably wouldn't win then, but I held out hope, I stood on street corners, I called people, I campaigned.
A 4 million popular vote for an administration that admits no wrong, that has no coherent diplomatic policy, that has no coherent domestic policy. Why? Because 9/11 changed everything? Because we needed to "kick some ass abroad"? These are the responses I get from Bush voters. They don't even know what the Clear Skies act is. They're not familiar with North Korea. We have to find a way to dumb ourselves down into simple ideology. Easy digestible soundbites. It sounds ridiculous but I see no other way -- 1992 was "The Economy, Stupid", nothing else has worked. People don't want to think about problems, they want to eat McD's and watch Joey.
I'm so... frustrated.
welcome to the dark ages :(
Technically, an election isn't over until the electoral college meets on December 13, 2004 (the Monday after the second Wednesday in December). At which point the electors are not bound to the results of their state as to who to cast their vote towards. Even if Bush won 100% of the popular vote, and Kerry conceeded 1 minute after the first precinct closed, Kerry could still be elected president. Or Nader for that matter.
The United States of America deserves a better president than George W. Bush. I am disappointed in the US that Kerry lost. I am also disappointed that my state (along with 10 others) choose to write discrimination into the state constitution by banning same-sex marriage and civil unions. This puts my domestic partner benefits in jeopardy as well. I am disappointed.
I have never felt so alienated by my government than I have today.
Speak truth to power.
Condy Rice - find a new job
Colin Powell - might stay (I hope not)
Tommy Thompson - see ya
replacements? (shudder)
SCOTUS changes - 2 to 3
chances of successful SCOTUS filibuster with the new Senate - very small
Bush agenda - Social Security reform (small chance of success), health care reform (nothing meaningful), litigation reform (nothing that will pass muster with the courts), more tax cuts (large chance of success)
Iraq - more of the same
War on Terror - becomes next War on Drugs
It's the first time Bush has won a presidential election! I'm disappointed Kerry lost, but I'm glad we didn't end up with the debacle of 2000.
"False hope is why we'll never run out of natural resources!" - Lewis Black
They don't hide anywhere. They, and all their stupidity, is out there for all to see.
Bush didn't win, Kerry lost.
Kerry was a TERRIBLE candidate. He took both sides of every issue. He would tell people whatever they wanted to hear. When people can't get a sense of where a candidate stands on anything, the incumbent wins. Really, it's as simple as that. I don't think many people were enthusiastic Bush supporters, but most people couldn't stomach voting for Kerry.
Instead of asking why the American people voted for Bush, ask yourself why the Democrats couldn't come up with a better candidate than Kerry.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
is the link to the Draft-Dodging HOWTO.
The ones who brought up the first draft bill where Democrats, which was opposed by the Republicans and rest of the Democrats alike, so how does Bush winning make it more likely?
1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
I know you are, but what am I??
eMelody Web Directory add your site today!
Not in the cities, for the most part. Cities are full of people well acquainted with the necessity of tolerance and diplomacy. As you look at regions with lower population density, the number of people eager to impose their opinions and ignore reason on others increases.
Of course, terrorists nearly always attack cities since the population is more dense. It's win-win for conservatives.
Bush wins the electorial and the popular vote (by a nice big margin).
I just find it suprising that the American people basically just gave their stamp of approval for Bush's actions for the past four years.
(Either candidate would have protected American self-interests and gotten crappy intellegence from CIA/FBI and made bad/good mistakes with the economy. So there isn't alot of difference here.)
I THINK (and I hope I'm wrong), the American people might have given Bush the ok to institute a draft. He's not going to be up for re-election and he is going to want to desperately wrap things up in the next 2-3 years (and use the last 1-2 years to set up his legacy).
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
Holy crap! This gets modded "insightful"???? This is flaim bait if I have seen it. What bothers be the most is the comment: "I call upon the world to harass american tourists anywhere they go. If they want a xenophobe isolationist nation, then let them stay at home in their rotting cesspool of shit." Bush may have won (and I'm not pleased with that) but by a very small amount. That means half the country, 56 million people, voted against him. Yes, there are idiots in this country, but not all of us! Asking other countries to "harras" us is the most stupid thing I have every heard.
4 more years of full power to one of the worst right wing mafia ever !
It really is hard to believe that televised lies can take so much control over a whole population .
And all this along with an electoral system that's making everybody laugh to tears, from france to the poorest african country !
Good luck to all, and that includes the rest of the world that will unoubtedly have to suffer from this crooks and their demented buisness.
With that aggravating beauty, Lulu Walls.
My condolences.
The owls are not what they seem
Something that wasn't covered very well on the news was the number of Gay Marriage measures in different states.
Bush won the vote in many of those states because Christians showed up to vote to ban Gay Marriage.
Very clever on part of the Republican Strategists. It is doubtful that the "Evangellical Christians" would have voted if the anti-gay measures weren't on the ballot.
Evangellical Christians only show up when they can vote a fool into power or restrict personal liberties. I left my home town because of those fascists...
94% of Repubs and 21% of Dems voted to renew the Patriot Act
You failed, now shut this piece of shit politics section down.
Been here all the time. However, I am impressed that Kerry and legions of lawyers aren't stampeeding the courts. The country needs to move on...
Don't apologise. Just give us a damn vote next time - or try to persuade your government to keep its damn nose out of our business, so we don't have to worry so much about your politics.
As a Bush supporter, I must express my gratitude to Kerry for allowing we voters to speak without dragging us all through the courts.
As badly as he wanted it, that concession call must have cost him. I know he was prepared to fight to the last ditch, but decided not to. I respect his integrity.
Now, Mr. Bush, Finish the job we've hired you to do.
In the wrong hands, sanity is a dangerous weapon.
Roll on Clinton (the second comming) 2008.
Beep beep.
Constitution gives us the people to elect the president. Kerry, like Gore, have no right to concede. Ohio is still too close to call, and by conceding, Kerry takes away their right to have votes counted. The difference between the results (even before correcting for Dieboldt errors) is less than number of provisional ballots.
They realize the same thing that most places had been describing since around 1 or 2 am Eastern time. That kerry would have to take 7 out of 8 of the provisional and absentee ballots to get enough of an edge to go into a forced recount (0.25% margin) with any lead at all. Statistically impossible.
I'm not ashamed to be an American, but I'm embarassed for our country.
Its not even that Bush won.
Its that it is official: You can lie, mislead, and divide, and sucessfully win an election.
He's also the first president in many years (perhaps ever?) that won because he openly advocated limiting civil rights of an etnic group, and used it to divide the country.
When you saw people on CNN saying that their primary concern was "moral values", that was just code for "we REALLY don't like gay people."
It wasn't really in people's minds until he brought it forward and made it an issue.
"A vote for Kerry is a vote for buttsex in our schools!"
Christ.
It sickens me to think that people who never voted before said "Whoa, nothing else has mattered to me in the last 20 years, but the QUEERS WANT TO GET MARRIED! Jarlene, find me my votin' hat!"
Not that I could've voted or anything.
Now that Bush has been re-elected we can continue on the plan to peace in Iraq which he started last year. De-stabilizing a country by removing a brutal dicator and then leaving the innocents behind to fend for themselves is not a withdrawal plan, it's sadistic. So thankfully with Bush as president we can finish the course and bring stability to the region. It would be good for all of America to be united behind this President. God Bless America!!!
The unfortunate reality is, regardless of opinion, the American people believe that more blood must be shed to win the war on terror, and have made the decision to continue doing so. Whether or not this is the correct choice is of no consequence. Whether or not you are on the right of left is of no consequence. In any and all scenarios, this is a sobering and unfortunate reality. More people will die.
So how long do we have to wait for the new leaked diebold memos? I have a feeling that it still wont end so pretty.
I'm with you, man.
I figure in three to four years Global Warming will be so bad under Bush's environmental policy (is that an oxymoron or what?) that Canada will be about as warm as here in North Carolina. So it might not be so cold, eh hoser?
any canadians here? i need a place to crash for four or so years.
seems like a very honest thing to do. he realized that it would have been very improbable to win every single provisional vote in ohio, so he just conceded it. at least he didnt draw it out for 2 more weeks of lawsuits and bullshit! (ps: i voted for kerry)
I for one welcome our incumbent overlords, and remind them that, as a respected Anonymous Coward, I can be helpful in rounding people up to be sent to their Cuban prison camps.
Ok now that all this nonsense is out of the way we need to get back to what America does best. Killing filthy third worlders who defy our right to rule the planet.
Is there anywhere we can publicly apologize to the rest of the world for our fellow Americans' foolish behavior? I'd sign a mass letter of apology to the world that would have voted Kerry into office with an enormous margin. The clock's ticking: how long until Iran is invaded, the environment completely trashed, our personal liberties destroyed, and our international relations damaged beyond repair?
Snazzier than a Three-Piece Suit: http://kf.rainydaycommunications.net/
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/03/election .main/index.html 5 10-2004Nov2.html g n/04electcnd.html?ei=5094&en=ba992171a995deaf&hp=& ex=1099544400&adxnnl=1&partner=homepage?hp&adxnnlx =1099500521-xBRX+5Tp7qQqEOM/W4qi0w t e2004/president.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A19
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/03/politics/campai
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/vo
For his last term bush may have been haunted by doubts that he was never truly the choice of the people.
At least this time he knows he is.
I have to say the MSNBC headline was confusing:
"Kerry calls Bush to concede election" - I interpreted this as "Kerry calls on bush to concede election" mean Kerry asked bush to concede.
Sam
blog.sam.liddicott.com
Simple.
You don't win over more supporters by insulting their intelligence.
I like porn. You like porn. We all like porn. I was visiting camwhores.com, a porn site that is part of the infamous "Stile Project" (You know, the site that used to shock your friends and co-workers and is now nothing but hundreds of flash ads). I saw cam black outs to protest Bush. I saw Canadian camgirls insulting Bush, telling us to "smarten up". One asshole even had the audacity to say "we'll get nuked if Bush wins, so find somewhere else to live".
The reality is Michael Moore, Sean Penn, and Ashton Kutcher make entertainment, NOT politics. These guys have about as much insight as, well, you and I, but the wholier than thou segment of entertainers soapboxing how evil Bush is (I personally use the analogy Bush isn't bad, but his VP is the real life Montgomery Burns) and how they're trying to lead us into a better decision.
Sorry Ashton, but I take my insight from people with 30 years of experience under their belt, not a popular sitcom.
The problem is they used this to try and get the youth vote out. Problem is, the youth vote is still extremely fucking lazy and apathetic. If anything, it backfired, causing a few more kids to come out and vote and a whole lot more republicans to come out because they were worried MTV might have done a better job brainwashing them than Sean Hannity, Mr. "Shut up with your talking points while I repeatedly blather ad nauseum John Kerry has disgraced the military due to his 1970s activism and that if Kerry was in power, there would still be mass graves under Saddam's regime" has done brainwashing them.
Did I support Bush? No. I won't support a president with an evil fingertapping war mongering administration who doesn't have the balls to tell his staff "no, I'm not going to do that". But I sure as Hell wouldn't support Kerry, who would go to a pistol range with you for your vote and then pass legislation to ban guns the next day.
Especially when both of them have the same exact stance on what I feel to be issue #1: Mindless, unquestioning support of Isreal.
Finally some hubris and jingoism for all.
Oh shit, there goes the planet.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
The heck?
In a way, even though I was 'cheering' from him, I am glad Kerry didn't win now. A man who is ready to concede and yield -before- even all the preliminary state votes have been counted (according to CNN New Mexico and Iowa results are not in yet), not to mention all the 'secondary' ballots, is too spineless to be a president.
Saying 'Oh well, I tried, but it seems I am losing so why prolong the suffering' is, perhaps, an attitude acceptable in sports or social games, but definitely not in the high-stakes situation like this. If Kerry is willing to give up that easily, despite all the questionable situations during the elections and all the still uncounted votes, he was not worth a single vote, much less 55+ millions he got.
'...computers in the future may have only 1000 vacuum tubes and perhaps weigh 1.5 tons...' Popular Mechanics, 03/49'
huzzah!!!!
"How like you to drag your keyboard to a gun fight." - Aaron Bedard (BANE)
Bush has...
Nationally:
- A 3.5 million vote (3%) margin
- An absolute majority (51%), the first since 1988
- The most votes ever received in any presidential election (though that's not necessarily relevant)
in Ohio:
- A 136,000 vote (2%) margin
- An absolute majority (51%)
- 100% precincts reporting
- Election results perfectly mirror exit polls (i.e., no tampering)
- Approximately 140-150,000 provisional ballots outstanding (according to Ohio Secretary of State)
- A statistically insurmountable lead
This time, it's clear.
Though, these campaigns are $300 million operations that have been going for almost two years, and when almost 60 million people vote for you, you have a duty to ensure that every vote counts - I won't fault anyone for that.
However, get ready for the Diebold conspiracy wackos to crawl out of the woodwork, because Diebold's chairman said in his capacity as a Republican party backer that he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year." Really, really poor taste? Yep. Probably a fucking stupid thing to say when you're CEO of a company that makes electronic voting machines? For the *state* about which you're making those comments, no less? Yep. But don't forget one thing: the exit polls exactly and perfectly describe the 2% Bush margin. That's one thing you'll never see the Diebold conspiracy blogs mention. (In fact, somehow they're now saying that the some of the exit polls *don't* match...which will give further fodder to the Diebold tinfoil hat crowd.) They'll just fantasize about how a 13,000 person company secretly rigged the election, and that somehow, the mainstream media is "hiding" the story because it's in bed with Bush. Ahh, conspiracy theorists. Gotta love 'em.
And I didn't vote for Bush.
Apparently they were already there , not that it mattered.
Even so, its still shameful to be an American at this point in time. I think that most of this was due to the "hates fags", better known as the ban gay marriage doctrine.
Just try to convince me that you hate Britney!
Call me old-fashioned, but don't you normally wait for the votes to be counted before declaring a winner? is it something to do with deciding whose votes to count?
thanks
Seriously, Bush is the worst president in the last 50 years. This is widely accepted and discussed; it's not my simple-minded view. He does things that no one would tolerate in the person running the company they work for, let alone a powerful country, like completely ignoring all the facts presented to him and making calls based on unfounded instinct.
So how the hell did he get elected? A combination of:
1. People, especially people over 50, who blindly vote for "their" party candidate.
2. A bizarre, misguided group who regard Bush as having high morals. I'm as dumbfounded as anyone here, but just watch how often this comes up in analyses.
3. A similarly bizarre, misguided group who seem to think that Iraq was responsible for the 9/11 attacks and Bush is keeping them from attacking us again.
4. Voting for the status quo is safer than a new guy.
5. Nobody really liked Kerry all that much. The anti-Bush people latched onto him because he's all we had.
This is a good argument for changing how a president is elected. For a good read, see Peter Norvig's Hiring a President.
A sad day indeed.
You should reconsider if democracy is for you.
Let's look at the entire result of the election:
1) Bush wins the majority of electoral votes
2) Bush wins the popular vote by approximately 4 million votes
3) Bush wins a majority of popular votes (51%)
4) Republicans gain in numerous House seats
5) Tom Daschle (the LEADER of the Democrats in the Senate) LOSES his election and gets kicked out of office by his electorate
6) The Democratic Vice Presidential candidate LOSES his HOME STATE by a wide margin of votes
7) Same sex marriage and other extreme liberal ballot measures fail
Democrats really need to step back and take a look at themselves and ask what does it mean to be a Democrat? I personally gave up hope on them after they supported NAFTA and other anti-worker measures and started supporting extreme positions on relatively unimportant issues (same sex marriages? Is that really important at this point in the country's history?)
The Dem party needs to get rid of their leadership and revamp and start to get back their base, which should be middle class and working Americans. This is a massive loss for them. It is the biggest shift I have seen in a long time.
- Calculate your share of the National Deficit
- Take up assault weapon collecting as a hobby
- Figure out how to best invest your $300 annual Bush tax savings to cover the social security benefits you'll never get
- Become rich, then get all your income from mostly untaxed dividends and capital gains income
- Join the guard and train for a one year tour of duty in Iraq
- Move so that the selective service can't find you
- Take some gay people and a girlfriend (work with me here) to Vegas. Taunt them by getting married and divorced inside of 12 hours.
- Make a sign saying "The Government should stay out of our lives!" and go protest in front of an abortion clinic.
- Pick up bow and arrow making to capitalize on the new corporate tax incentives
- Do something illegal, get arrested, and excercise your right to trial before 4 years of Bush-appointed, Republican confirmed Supreme Court appointees uphold the Patriot Act's elimination of right to trial.
paintball
Just wondering, if by some highly improbable miracle the provisional ballots give Ohio to Kerry does the concession really mean anything?
If Kerry had nominated Bill Richardson, the diehard Hispanic racist, for Kerry's running mate, then Kerry would have won the election in New Mexico. Kerry would likely have won additional states that he ultimately lost, and he would have won the presidency.
The second deciding factor in the race is the "O'Reilly Factor". Kerry refused to be interviewed by O'Reilly during this last week, and O'Reilly ended up in interviewing people who knew Kerry. Bob Woodward of "The Washington Post" and O'Reilly both concluded that Kerry is too much of an unknown.
The "O'Reilly Factor" is the most powerful, most influential, policy analysis program on television and helped Bush to win the presidency.
Looking forward, what will Bush do? I defer to O'Reilly. According to him, Bush will launch a devastatingly aggressive battle in Fallujah and other strongholds of Hispanic ... oops ... Islamic fascists. In short, American military forces will now conduct the kind of campaign that would not have been politically palatable during the political campaign season. Go USA!
Sweet.
If you believe in God, may He have mercy on us all.
If you don't believe in God, hide!
I'll do it for cheesy poofs.
But we'll have to wait another few months (and read European newspapers) to REALLY see if Ohio is sound. Remember Florida.
Meine Schwester ist sehr, sehr reizvoll - Nietzsche
"They...is"
Enough said...
I hope the rest of the world remembers that nearly half of the voters did not want Bush back in office. This was no affirmation that 'Americans' agree with Bush. This is proof of what strategic campaigning can do, and it is proof that our country is still rabidly divided.
We have shown the rest of the world that
1) we prefere a president who repeatedly lies to us
2) we are a bunch of homophobic racist
3) we fully intend to continue to rape the middle east
4) most americans are stupid fools, who are too ignorant to think for themselves.
5) America is filled with fearfull ignorant idiots.
Im going to look into moving to a different contry, the idea of living where a bunch of morons can cotroll the goverment, sickens me. I am so dissapointed in america and i am ashamed of this country.
We lost Daschle in a dirty fight. That hurts.
DeMint and Coburn are now U.S. Senators. These guys are so conservative they make Ralph Reed blush. Segregation is old and busted; homophobia and codification of evangelical values is the new hotness. Sigh.
The Republicans hold a comfortable majority in both houses of Congress. Bush can reasonably claim a mandate, having won over 50% of the popular vote. Rhenquist is on his way out; I'll be surprised if he's the only one in the next four years.
The world, that place that so few Americans truly apreciate the value of, will not reward us for re-electing Bush. Up 'till now, they've been giving us the benefit of the doubt. No longer.
Our current leadership is united, forceful, and visionary. They do not care much for the tenets of "separation of church and state" and "protection against the tyrrany of the majority". They have little beyond contempt for opposing viewpoints. They hold little stock in the value of science, save when it advances their own policy decisions.
I'm spent. When one's silver-lining scenario relies on Bush driving the country into a brick wall at the bottom of a punji pit, there's not much to be happy about.
I ache too much to fear for us just yet.
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
you are a moron.
You're a fucking moron. Way to miss the point, moron. He wasn't talking about this singular point called the election. Damn, you're dense....they let you on the intarwebs?
I should have seen this coming. The home-town team was up late against the Evil Empire. The commentators were ready to declare us the victor, and then... NO! We some how managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
I don't think that the Curse of the Bambino extends into politics, I think it ended this year so we wouldn't see the inevitable outcome. What's the fun in beating us if we don't have our hopes crushed?
I think the real question is, where did all the bush haters / kerry supporters go that you were only able to pull 48% of the vote?
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
This could be a good thing. Maybe another Bush term is just what America and the world needs. It's risky, and it's harsh medicine, but the world will probably get through it and America will most likely be ready for a real change afterwards. This may be better than letting Kerry take over a losing hand, having a lame duck presidency only for the neoconservatives to come back refreshed and invigorated 4 years later. America hasnt reaped what it's sowed yet, and it may be better in the long run for Bush to stay in charge while it does.
http://rareformnewmedia.com/
Hmm... anyone want to help participate in a national brain drain? Or, we could all just move to the northeast and cecede ;)
It is a sad day when the American people have elected (*not* re-elected) this smirking poster boy for rewarding the undeserving to a second term in office. What is especially disheartening is that the strategy of pandering to the religious right and spewing hateful, mendacious rhetoric proves once again to be the winning combination.
The one good piece of news is that from now on, the crap about the winner of the Washington Redskin's game right before the election predicting the winner of the election will be citing an urban legend, rather than a coincidence.
Stupid people make stupid things profitable.
do not welcome the return of our current overlord! Say goodbye to America folks, time to nail the coffin shut. I wonder if anyone is so pissed right now that they are willing to start an armed revolt? Anyone?? ;)
From the results of the election and exit polls it seems that voters were more motivated by the candidate's stances on "moral" issues and security, rather than foreign policy and the economy.
D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
The rest of the world can't seem to manage its own economy (see europe..
That'll be Europe with less unemployment, better economic growth, lower or equal taxation, better employee rights and with stock markets and currencies that are currently stomping over the dollar?
That Europe?
Your bias appears to be 30 years out of date. Please update your bias's and try again.
Time to refashion a dance song for a new era - sing along with me:
"Bombs over Teh-ran! Bombs over Teh-ran!"
Can't wait. Boots on the ground in Syria and Iran within 6 months. Missing WMDs to be found shortly. Stay tuned, we'll make the world safe again - even if you can't stand it.
(Score:-5, Conservative)
Once again America has elected a nearly illiterate moron. I never thought I would say this, but today, I'm embarrassed to be an America.
Kerry clearly did not want America to spend a month re-tallying votes in Ohio. He conceeded for the good of America!
http://brandonbloom.name
Don't forget that you can now arm yourself, in preperation for the upcoming Civil War, early, now that the assault weapons ban has expired. I suggest stockpiling Kalishnikovs, they are the choice of gurellias, insurgents and popular uprisings worldwide.
Time to feed the trolls.
It's official, America is a nation of idiots.
Nah, only about 48% of them
Unemployment and deficit rampantly high
Unemployment IS NOT rampantly high, the deficit is, but deficit spending has been around since Reagan.
combined with a war, so you pretty much voted to get your asses DRAFTED into a war
More bullshit. You will believe anything wont you? Why would people be drafted with Bush in office? The Democrats brought the draft up in congress, and it was voted down by everyone except two democrats. Republicans don't want a draft, and the US army does not want a draft. Unless we end up in a ground war with China, a draft is not needed.
since this is what has happened historically with the combination of those three events.
Uhh, no. There have been plenty of times America has went to war during a downtime in the economy and not had a draft. You have no idea what you are trolling about.
Conveniently enough, security is higher at the borders
That goes to show what you know, border security is still shit which was a topic neither candidate would touch.
and at the airports... draft dodgers will have a hell of a time getting out.
Stop reading the guardian, cnn and BBC for your news, or else all you will believe is this communist propaganda.
I call upon the world to harass american tourists anywhere they go.
That will get you really far.
If they want a xenophobe isolationist nation, then let them stay at home in their rotting cesspool of shit.
You are a moron, Bush backs policies that are for globablization and non-isolationist views. Kerry was more isolationist than Bush was. If you are going to troll, at least know what you are trolling about
You have to actually WANT TO WIN.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is kinky.
This will save Canada from all those Americans that want to move to a country with a better leader, health care system, education, prospects and standard of living. Oh wait, you said Canada? My mistake!
Canada should be allowed to vote in the US elections, considering how much damage Bush did for our cattle and lumber industries. Not forgetting all the pollution we get from Detroit, and the insults on our immigration policies (wait, you're blaming us because terrorists got into your country?). And so on!
Long live America - no I really mean that. Just don't expect us to like Bush!
It's all here: Welcome to Citizenship and Immigration Canada.
Americans who do not want Republican leadership need a better alternative, perhaps a new party, one that actually stands for something and has a platform that is not based solely on some inverse of the Republican platform. What was the Democrat platform? I still can't tell. Day One of a Kerry presidency would still see the US in Iraq and in debt and in hock to corporations with no change on the horizon.
They won the debates. The incumbant has (and I'm not commenting on if it is his fault) presided through a faltering, job-losing economy. Why can't they close-the-deal?
All those who said they would move to Canada when Bush won, start packing! :) All your vote are belong to us.
" It's a sad sad day for 50% of America."
More like its a sad day for the 50% of the 60% of Americans registered to vote. I'm assuming the other 40% couldn't care less.
but I'l *really* like to know how many /.'ers are in the 18-25 age bracket and are eligible for voting in the US that didn't vote.
According to AP, the turnout from the younth was even worse this time than in 2000, and yet the youth is complaining the loudest about Bush.
pffft, we have bigger bombs.
feh. stuff.
The beer drinkers gained on the wine drinkers.
Whether you're happy with the result or not the truth is that this is probably a more successful election than there's been for a long time because more of you voted.
In most of the "democratic" countries of the world, like my own here in the UK, turnout continues to drop at elections.
Maybe we all need to elect a Bush equivilent. ;)
America is a nation of idiots...
I call upon the world to harass american tourists anywhere they go
Hang on a minute, my other half is American, she voted for John Kerry. If we move back home to the UK (which she suggested we do if Bu$h won), then should she be harrassed anywhere she goes? And let me tell you, you Insensitive Clod, if anyone's going to call my wife an idiot, its going to be me (very quietly and from the other side of the street).
I'm fairly tired of the argument that it's not good for the rest of the world
Tired of the truth - just like Bush!
The rest of the world can't seem to manage its own economy
Bull fucking shit. It's the *US* that can't manage its' own economy (Or do you think that a $500B *deficit* is normal?)
The rest of the world takes a calculated blind eye on terrorism
No, the rest of the world actually works to *reduce* terrorism, rather than create new terrorists by invading foreign countries.
The rest of the world doesn't set much of an example for everyone else to follow.
"The rest of the world" most certainly does - it's just that you are too stupid to follow it.
I thought Kerry lost and the Democrats were weakened in house and senate. Since they were the ones promoting the idea of a draft you should be quite happy.
Of course we can't have recounts. Ohio is all Diebold, and no paper trail. We just have to take their word for it.
Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
All us crazy people know social decline is all around us, and that it will be at least another eight years 'til the end of what we know.
Although I think that Kerry wouldn't have made a bad president, I do think that keeping Bush in office will be more effective in the long run. I'm assuming that his administration has long term plans that need to be pushed through the next for years to be fully effective.
./'ers lean a bit to the left, and may be disappointed by the results, but keep in mind that the real change in this country beings with each individual whos convictions drive them to make this country better by getting involved in their local communities.
I realize that
God Bless America!
I watched the entire election from 6 PM to 2 AM (Central). Kerry was looking good when Pennsylvania got called for Bush, but really, Florida and Ohio started breaking towards Bush fairly early. Unless there's massive voter fraud in both states, Bush wins easily.
Obama (in the Illinois race) won easily; he was always going to win easily. I'm a Illinoisian Democrat (don't mod me down), born and bred, and even I thought the coverage of him was a bit too much. Obama was polling something like 70-30 against Keyes, he was enormously popular.
And what was up with CNN? They didn't call Washington and Oregon for Kerry for hours after all the other networks called it. Foxnews actually got a lot right.
And for future elections, here's a tip for everybody: throw a small party. Order pizza, hot wings, breadsticks, etc, and make sure to invite friends from both parties. The happiness level in the room will always stay constant. Here's my reasoning: In the beginning, both the Democratic and Republican supporters will be expectant, a little pessimistic, all sorts of emotions. That's the baseline. Then, as the night goes on and one candidate is pulling away from each other, the supporters of that candidate will be way more happier, and the supporters of the person losing will be (can anyone guess?) much less so. So they even each other out. And it really helps prevent the supporters of the losing dude from sulking too much.
The rest of the world takes a calculated blind eye on terrorism, knowing that America will probably be the target and/or come to the defense of anyone hit hard.
This is total bullshit. The rest of the world gets hit much more often than we do, and yet they've managed to survive without sacrificing their core beliefs.
Worldwide terror was up in 2003. How many of those attacks were against the USA? 0. Terrorism is a red herring.
Save Me (us), Jebus!
...the country will be ready to stand for the things that made it great. Maybe if the gap between rich and poor keeps expanding, the national deficit balloons even higher, the average wage drops even lower, the trade deficit continues to soar, the air and water go to shit, civil rights are further eroded in the name of 'safety', enough troops die for weapons that don't exist and fake ties to terrorism... maybe then this country will open its eyes and make a change.
Until then, just keep standing on your stump yelling 'Terrorism! Terrorism! Terrorim! Patriot! Patriot! Patriot!' and 51% of America will really believe you're a patriot fighting terrorism. This day is sad.
LilMikey.com... I'll stop doing it when you sto
What I'd like to see are stats on which precincts with Diebold and other evoting machines went to Bush or Kerry. I'd also like to see which of those precincts changed from Democrat to Republican as compared with the 2000 election.
Speak truth to power.
Dear Canada,
How do I move to you?
Sincerely,
Greg
in bed.
would a vate for Nader or Badnarik really have been wasted given that Kerry did not win anyway?
/. again.
Soooo, suddenly Kerry really didn't want to win anyway, eh? Bush won only because Kerry "gave up", eh?
Wow - refashioning history the day after it's been made!
Oh, should have known - I'm reading
(Score:-5, Conservative)
Statistically, maybe. But it IS possible. If your figures are correct, then all he had to do was take 7 out of 8 of the provisional and absentee ballots, and he could win.
It's NOT impossible. Improbable, maybe, but not impossible.
Please do, that would be like winning twice today.
kerry sux0rs bush 0wnz joo!
If Kerry had nominated Bill Richardson, the diehard Hispanic racist, for running mate, then Kerry would have won the election in New Mexico. Kerry would likely have won additional states that he ultimately lost, and he would have won the presidency.
The second deciding factor in the race is the "O'Reilly Factor". Kerry refused to be interviewed by O'Reilly during this last week, and O'Reilly ended up in interviewing people who knew Kerry. Bob Woodward of "The Washington Post" and O'Reilly both concluded that Kerry is too much of an unknown.
The "O'Reilly Factor" is the most powerful, most influential, policy analysis program on television and helped Bush to win the presidency.
Looking forward, what will Bush do? I defer to O'Reilly. According to him, Bush will launch a devastatingly aggressive battle in Fallujah and other strongholds of Hispanic .... oops .... Islamic fascists. In short, American military forces will now conduct the kind of campaign that would not have been politically palatable during the political campaign season. Go USA!
Sweet.
If you're really looking for excitement, there is always ApacheCon in Las Vegas.
Now that you mention it...it seems that America has made its choice to continue its evil fingertapping war mongering. I hope we march through the middle east and kill them all and take all the oil.
The people have SPOKEN!
Would he concede with ohio still technically out?
Bush has the lead here, but there are enough provisional ballots left to be counted to swing it. Why the hell would you give up?
Biggest popular vote support + biggest deficit + ideologically driven governance + militarily most powerful country + majority in all levels of legislation = DISASTER
Mark my words.
I forget where I read it (probably here) but someone said that since the population of the world increases exponentially with each generation -- there are more people living now than ever before -- you can estimate the probility of living now as opposed to any point in the past and maybe extrapolate to the future.
The point was that the most likely time to live would be now, or if the population continues to incrase, the future. Since you don't live in the future, we must be close to the end...
No democrat has EVER won the presidency without winning a southern state. A senator from the northeast had NO chance!!
Only a SOUTHERN democrat will EVER win.
The nations pretty polarized. Slightly less than half of us are apparently qualified to express an opinion. I can't understand how anyone can be a Bush supporter so when I ask I mostly get "Kerry is a bad man" "I don't trust Kerry" "Kerry messed with Texas" as if these are what constitutes thinking for some people. I think the northeast and west coast should declare independence. Or maybe every person in the world should be allowed a vote in the US
Seriously, the youth vote was just as bad this year as it was four years ago..... What do we have to do make it a video game to make you stupid fucks vote? Your lives and the direction the country your going to be in charge of one day doesnt mean jack to you? Im sorry but they should just take away voting for 18 year olds and bring it back to 21 year olds.... if you guys cant use your right to vote, you shouldnt have it.
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
You can't recount without a paper trail.
The situation for Americans wanting a real choice is becoming more bleak with each election. We need new parties.
sprechen sie deutsch?
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
electronic voting
Now, does this mean that he gives up? Or are they still going to count the votes to determine the winner, technically? I mean, it was pretty mature of Kerry to not bicker over the votes....but at the same time, he basically just said "I don't care about the rest of the votes, your votes don't count...."
I'm sending E*Trade a check for $10,000 this morning.
I'm planning on investing it in stocks in the gambling, liquor, and fast food sectors. (And, if I can identify any players, companies that make shit that you bolt or stick onto the cabs of pick-up trucks.)
I figure I can't go wrong with this position in a country full of people deluded enough to re-elect a fool like Bush.
Stefan
Yea, the Europe that didn't have to pay most of the defense bill against the Soviet Union thereby preventing Europe from becoming one large Russian speaking state all those years that we graciously did so it could have all that nice shit. That Europe..
If I told you that was last year, would you know what I meant?
announcing they would be pulling their 300 troops (serving in a non-combat transportation role) out of Iraq by March! So my immediate recollection is that at least Hungary and Poland have announced they are getting out. And the coalition gets smaller. Congratulations, President Bush.
Happy goldfish bowl to you.
Good luck you poor American bastards. I will try to remember what good friends and strong allies you were as you tear the world asunder. I will try to remind myself that it was American ideals that ushered in this golden age of freedom that the remainder of the Western World still enjoys.
I do hope that things will go well for you. I hope this not just because our destinies are entwined. I hope as one would hope for a friend who spirals down into schizophrenia.
Good luck to you and to everyone else.
I don't live in the U.S.
1. Democrats will finally answer a question they can't stand to ask: What exactly do we stand for? And how do we articulate it in 15 seconds or less? (Disclaimer: I voted Kerry, and would have voted for a bag of doorknobs over Bush. But IMO this was a major failing of the Kerry campaign.)
2. Saudi Arabia will become an Islamic republic. If we go to war again (and who knows the chances of that?), I don't see the house of Saud surviving the backlash.
3. Health care and Social Security will take center stage again with rising deficits. Combined with #2, it'll be the economy again, stupid.
4. Moderate conservatives will opt either for a third party, or even join the Democrats (who have fallen into the role, accidentally, of deficit hawks and gov't spending watchdogs). These may actually be good times to be a fiscal conservative and social liberal, akin to libertarians.
5. Dems take the Senate in 2006 if the Iraq death toll doubles. It's very likely that interest rates will go up (maybe even skyrocket). Greenspan may not be able to keep inflation in check by then.
999. All bets are off. Noone could have predicted 9/11, which still managed to cast a long shadow over voting yesterday.
Add away...
--- The American Way of Life is not a birthright. Hell, it's not even sustainable.
I live in America and agree 100%.
Nice to read posts from Americans that are glad that their top politicians aren't living up to the nickname of "land of the litigious".
Now if only those politicians could fix things to make that nickname and the less than stellar reputation of the patent office go away.
I, for one, welcome our new american overlords!
Legally, what are the implications of the concession?
What if the vote counting is finished, and Kerry comes out ahead in Electoral votes? Is the concession a legally binding surrender, or what? Could the debate be resumed in the courts at a later time?
http://thechubbyferret.net - Ferret pictures and informative links.
http://www.votersunite.org/electionproblems.asp
A lot seem to be voting machine problems.
Look up "Air France Flight 8969" for more information.
I've spent years in German and they take terrorism very seriously. Their cops patrol with Uzi's.
Dammit, I say the rest of the world should go to the aid of the US people. Clearly, after years of government propaganda and brainwashing they are unable to rid themselves of their terrible, extremist, bungling ruler.
All diplomatic and democratic methods have failed: it is the duty of the governements of the world now to free these downtrodden people by military means.
I'll be busy looking up how states can secede from the union. It is time to cut loose the red states so they can form the Christian version of Iran they've always dreamed of.
The European Union has the strongest economy in the world. I guess you haven't evaluated the Euro lately.
Blind eye to terrorism? Do you think terrorism started and ended with 9/11. Where is America as some 50,000+ Sudanese have been murdered in genocide in several months? Saddam can't claim a 1/5th of those numbers in 20 years. Where was America's war on terror when they were funding the Sandonistan Guerrila's or Osama Bin Laden? Or where was America's war on terror when the KKK and the general white population was running wild in America? Where was America when the Native American's were being forcibly removed from their lands (note: the settlers started scalping, and a "redskin" is a reference to scalped skin of an indian). Terror, Terror, don't be hypocritical.
And the very reason why the U.S. will ultimately fall just like every great civilization is they will forget the globe is a mighty big place, and they have neither a monopoly on wisdom nor morailty.
With the election over, all that anger needs to be refocused somewhere. What better place to focus this frustration then to home-in on our favorite punching-bag duo of Gates and Balmer!
But you know, if I was one of the Ohio voters who got challenged into submitting a "provisional" vote yesterday, I would probably be pissed right now.
Bush will heal the nation???
Sure, and monkeys might really, actually, fly out of my ass!
Let loose the lone gunmen of war!
This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
Since Bush moved to the far right to firm up his base and get the votes of the religious folks to help win reelection he may move back more towards the center in his second term since he doesn't need them as much anymore.
Maybe he really can become a uniter instead of a divider. Here's to wishful thinking.
Will it be N Korea? China? Canada ( Damn you canuks ).
Stay tuned! Same Bush channel, same Bush time!
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
that it's over this quickly, and that Bush won.
Last I read, the estimate was 175,000 provision votes, with Kerry 125,000 behind in counted votes. So he'd need to win 85% of the provisionals to win the election.
It could be a slim chance, and it looks like they'll still keep counting, but it also does look like Kerry made an accurate call, and in turn sets up some good will for future Democrat elections.
However, I think the White House/Andy Card deserve a few jeers for their earlier statement Bush giving Kerry "the respect of more time to reflect", in essence already bragging that they'd won and trying to diminish Kerry's pending concession.
Such constant 'first post' nature of the Republicans (thus setting the framing for subsequent responses) is, however, one reason they've done so well in terms of media spin. It's a valid tactic, but I still don't like it.
Also, Card predicts 286 electoral for Bush, minimum, and that seems overly optimistic. If it's not accurate, I hope Card is taken to account for those numbers, since disinformation from the White House in the name of politicking is the one condemnation of the current White House that I feel hasn't been properly addressed.
A.
WOW - what a difference a day makes. Yesterday was how un-American it would be to vote for Bush and how he divides the country and now with Bush winning, it's "America is going to HELL" and "I'm moving to Canada." Who is really dividing America? I understand having passion for your beliefs, but now it is time to join together!!! America is great because of its individuals and its morals.
Bush has about a 136k lead in Ohio. Even if there are 200,000 provisional ballots, and you assume they are all counted, Kerry would have to win by about 168k to 32k in order to win Ohio. That also assumes that there are no absentee ballots left, which there are, and as most of those are from the military, they're more likely to be republican votes.
It's over. Kerry, like Gore, ran a crappy campaign and got beat. Another case of Too Little, Too Late.
Maybe next time Democrats will figure out that you gotta take a stand and piss a few people off if you want to be taken seriously.
paintball
Good Morning, Senator! So nice to hear from you!
How can you expect a hundred million people to unite behind you when you're spouting off "I HATE AMERICA BECAUSE EVERYONE IS STUPID" rhetoric?
I bet you're upset because that girl you punched in the face doesn't have a crush on you.
More WAR
More JOBS LOST OVER SEAS
More LOST HEALTH CARE BENEFITS
More US Inc!
EVEN MORE unbelievably stupid!
Says the shivering Canadian!
Would Kerry have either raised taxes or slashed services as we have been repeatedly warned we need to do to IMMEDIATELY to curb the fiscal crisis? NOPE.
Would Kerry have rolled back corporate rule in this country? NOPE.
Kerry's presidency would have been a sham attempt to reinvent the Clinton era.
The rest of the world takes a calculated blind eye on terrorism...
I'd say that pretty much describes the United States before 9/11/2001, wouldn't you?
I live in US , but im not a citizen.Any foreigner if asked abt America , talks mostly about NY CA MA IL and sometimes Florida and Texas.
Why did democrats win the states that represent growth,technology,diversity
Why do Republicans win mostly in States that people know of them only in America like utah Nebraska Kansas Udaho Oaklahoma..
What is with these Americans?
Are people joking or is something serious going on here? Has someone seriously predicted a civil war?
...
Someone told me he thought there would be a civil war the other day and I didn't pay too much attention. However, I have heard some quite intelligent and respectible people predicting an economic collapse. I suppose that could lead to a civil war but
Have I been seriously missing something?
help us all if everyone stated following America's example. I don't think that circumventing the UN, warmongering and killing people is a productive way to run this world. That said, America has spoken and the majority of them want George W. Bush for another four years. Unfortunately, we've only got ourselves to blame - especially those in the not so progressive states in the midwest that decided not to vote but now elect to whinge about it. Apathy on a large scale does effect the result of elections. The longest journey begins with a single step, in four years time, I hope you all exercise your democratic right to vote.
Why did the main stream media not call Ohio for Bush but did call WI, PA, and NH for Kerry. Consider:
OH:
Not Called.
Bush Kerry
2,794,346 | 2,658,125
0.51 0.4852
Adv Bush 2.4% and 136,221 votes.
PA:
Called Kerry.
Bush Kerry
2,746,856 | 2,868,674
0.4868 0.50834
Adv Kerry 2.1% and 121,818 votes.
WI:
Called Kerry.
Bush Kerry
1,474,210 | 1,487,880
0.4930 0.4976
Adv Kerry 0.4% and 13,670 votes.
NH:
Called Kerry.
Bush Kerry
330,848 | 330,848
0.4899 0.503
Adv Kerry 1.358% and 9,171 votes.
If this doesn't show liberal media bias, I don't know what does.. FNC and NBC did call it for Bush so maybe they have the least bias. Does anyone see any reason why CNN/ABC/CBS would call PA, NH, and WI in favor of Kerry but refrain from calling Ohio?
I'd post:
... but ./ says "try to be more original" :-P
"Arrrrrrrggggghhhhh, we're all dooooooomed!"
I can't imagine Dick Cheney trying to ride on the coattails of GWB, so who will be the Republican candidate? And is the Democratic Party going to start grooming Hillary for a run like everyone was talking about a while ago? Is John Kerry going to go into seclusion and grow a beard? Lots of things to think about.
Whether or not most of America knows it, there are more than 2 political parties. Neither the Republicans, nor Democrats, received 50% of the vote. I'm sure that the Nader supporters will agree. Now all must prepare for Hillary 2008.
I was very open minded about candidates. But then the Democrats stuffed Dean down a mineshaft and decided to go with Kerry.
I think what is amazing is not how close the election was, but how many votes Kerry got given that the primary reason most people seemed to vote for him was out of hatred. See what voting for hatred gets you?
Next time Democrats give me a viable candidate if you want me to vote for them. Note that even absorbing all of the Libertarian votes would have helped him any.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
So this upholds the 'halloween mask' theory...invalidates the Carter clause and the Redskin theory...and reaffirms my hope that maybe, just maybe, there are some left in politics that have a little grace and civility left in their tired, old bones. I applaude Kerry for conceding rather than contesting Ohio.
"How like you to drag your keyboard to a gun fight." - Aaron Bedard (BANE)
I for one welcome our democratically elected overlord.
We don't hide
Oh, the hipocrisy my little AC friend.
http://marryanamerican.ca/
here's to hoping that the shrub leaves canada alone.
-Leigh
So that battle between socialism (nationwide health care, expanded government welfare, progressive income taxes) and facism (patriot act, patriot act II?) will be faught again another day. Each side doing what's "best for america", meanwhile eroding our liberties away.
:)
And somewhere... my man michael badnarik is crying
T'is a sad day for me indeed. Support instant runoff voting! This 2 party crap has got to go.
alright, now flame away. But I had to get that off my chest.
my last sig was too controversial... now, a new and improved useless sig!
I had a 100 euro on Kerry (@6-5!)
...
While I'm pissed at losing some cash, I'm more pissed off that
"chimp head" has another four years to screw up the world.
I do not think that you Americans fully understand what the consequences this result will have!
That's the end of my rant, I'm off now to drown my sorrows in the pub
__
Sigs are like arse-holes, everybody has one
I'm not going to harass American tourists. On the contrary, I would happily offer them asylum in Europe.
All of my American friends are distraught at the result, and I'm sympathising with them.
Seriously, I'll have my CS degree soon and would like to git while the gittin's good. What is the best way to approach emmigration to Canada?
At least there's a silver lining in this, Hillary in '08!
Time time to invade Canada and make it the 52nd state. (The UK is the 51st state.)
So the people who believe a president has major influence over the economy are those worthy of having an "opinino", whatever that is, and those who refuse to vote for a greasy weasel are the "extremely stupid".
Right......
Comments should be like skirts. Short enough to keep your attention, but long enough to cover the subject
France and Germany have promised to follow through with their threat to move to Canada if Bush is reelected.
Personally I didn't care too much who won, mostly because I didn't like either candidate a great deal.
HOWERVER, I am leaning towards liking it that Bush won because I hate Michael Moore and he's got pie in his face.
I had the chance to see him at Syracuse University a few weeks ago and was a little disturbed by some of the things he said. Things like:
1. Lets get our guy into office, we can kick his ass later.
Shouldn't we be questioning a candidate...before we make him the most powerful man in the world? Hell for that matter, make me president and you can find out if I'm fit for it after I'm already in. The way he made it sound was more, vote for Kerry because he's a democrat, not vote for Kerry because he stands for what you believe in.
2. He told Nader not to even run, don't bother with the election because he'll just screw it up for Kerry.
This got me really pissed because basically he was stating, don't vote for who you believe in because they don't have a chance anyway. Choice is the ver reason for having a democratic election. if you take that away or even suggest to take it away, why are we bothering?
3. Finally, he said something about Bush not winning the popular vote in 2000...which nobody has done since 1988, including the beloved Clinton...which he left out. So finally Bush won both the electorial college and popular.
Oh and most of the bickering (political) can end on slashdot and we can get back to the new release of BSD that runs on my fruit blender. Thats good too.
Didn't the midwest go to Kerry?
Well, it looks like I'll be moving from the US overseas. I'm not too happy about Bush winning.
I'm thinking of the UK, NZ, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Amsterdam, etc as places to move to. I actually have other Tabs up right now looking for how Visas work in each of those countries. Any advice?
Oh yea, and Canada is also a possibilty.
Tibbon
tibbon.com
Now our best hope is to pray that GWB [...] doesn't alienate the entire world in the next 4 years.
In fact i hope he does exactly that. I'm really fed up with the USA proclaiming themselves as self-elected world-leader, their unilateral politics and their export of run-away capitalism where war is just another way of doing business.
The bigotry of anti-abortionists that cheer Bush on to continue waging wars in which millions of civillians are killed (aparently it's ok to kill a pregnant mother if she happens to live in the wrong country) makes me puke.
In fact i doubt if Kerry would've done much better. To me he came over the perfedt opportunist. In that case we're better off with Bush anyway: at least the world already knows what an idiot he is.
Sorry for the rant, it's just how i feel about the whole affair. So at least Bush will make sure that a lot more people all over the world will feel the same.
"By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself." -- Bill Hicks
We fight a different kind of war today. We don't need to body count to through into the meat grinder.
Training for today's military takes more than 6 weeks of boot camp.
Having people in the military that don't want to be there won't help one bit.
Restored
Shattered
Too Close to Call
You probably shouldn't click this.
It's not the exit polls that they're using. Both candidates need less than 20 electoral votes to win. Ohio has 20. Bush is going to win Ohio, it's a near mathmatical certainty based on the COUNTED BALLOTS. Bush wins the election.
Additionally, Bush has a SIGNIFICANT edge in the popular vote.
Democracy doesn't mean the best man wins, it just means the majority is responsible for who they pick.
paintball
For the last four years, I have been able to get up in the morning by telling myself that the 2000 election was stolen through dirty tricks and that most voters didn't understand the issues, and thus that Americans are NOT knuckle-dragging, anti-intellectual, theocratic, warmongering, superstitious, bigoted, arrogant, foolhardy, small-minded, antigrammatical Neandretals, but were in fact simply misled, swindled, and outright cheated into voting for a hard-right ideologue in the clothing of a "uniter, not a divider".
However, as the precinct counts come in, it is clear that Bush has won this election by a huge landslide; the Republican Party by an even larger margin. The American people cannot be fooled about what the man in the White House stands for after four years of his rule; thus, the only sane conclusion is that they support him and his appalling policies wholeheartedly.
Today, I am afraid of my fellow citizens and ashamed to be an American.
HA-HA !
</nelson>
I used to vote for who would bring the country to revolution the fastest... i.e. who will implode and piss off the world to the point that we start seeing sanctions against us by the rest of the world and where we can't travel freely.
I stopped that.. but now am seeing that maybe some others have picked this route as valid.
Kerry though an 'okay' candidate (admittedly, much better spoken/educated than Bush) would have just been a roadblock to any progress in either direction because of the house/senate etc..
This way, at least Bush will start up a draft, screw people over on civil liberties, tear up the constitution in front of Dan Rather on live television and swing the pedulum so far back that the democrats could put Hillary on the ballot and win in a landslide.
I suppose that is progress, in kind of a sad way.
anime+manga together at last.. in real time.
If you are NOT upset and threatening to move....PLEASE do the following:
1. Find a very busy road
2. Throw yourself in traffic
Thank for your help.
"We can now say with some assurance that there is virtually nothing in the world of politics - not organizing, not message development, not long-term planning, not discipline - at which Republicans are not more skillful than Democrats."
Has the Democratic Party become obsolete? It sure looks like it from this end.
Perhaps. William Saletan of Slate writes in Simple but Effective - Why you keep losing to this idiot.:
"Sigh. I really didn't want to have to write this."
and examines how Bush could possibly win.
What kills me is the fact that I'll be almost 40 before I see another president in the White House.
I'm not even American, but I felt (and still feel) sick to my stomach when I saw the election results.
I can only imagine how some of you, who actually voted, are feeling.
...wait until the Dallas Cowboys are back in the Super Bowl. Only then should you start to worry.
We had the perfect opportunity to fix the mistakes as they were presented to us, but apparently people are short-sighted and impressionable.
Because we allowed people to let this decision happen, I feel this country deserves anything and everything it gets throughout the next 4 years.
Just don't expect me to support this country in the time of need - you can fight your own battles.
We have secretly replaced these Slashdot mods' sense of humor with a rusty nail. Let's see if they notice!!
Another four years of spiraling deficits, antagonistic foreign relations, and fear-mongering from all corners of the Republican party.
For a country so divided, it sure is a scary sight to have every branch of the government dominated by one party. So much for a representative democracy.
I will say that it is a more-than-slight slap in the face against most Bush supporters in that it is implicitly suggesting that there are two types of Bush supporters. There are those who support the President because they are "simple" (i.e. not intelligent) like he is and there are those who support Bush because they know that he isn't really running the show and they support his handlers.
not to mention all the democrats that flipped!!! I hope they rot in hell!!!
It's thinking just like that that really turned off a lot of potential voteers from the Democrats. The message was entirely too much about hatred.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Look on the bright side..
:o)
You still might get some use out of that bunker you had built for Y2K.
The horsemen are:
Bush
Cheney
Rumesfield
Ashcroft
Isn't it obvious?
Actually, what is sad is that we are a nation of ~300 million. With all the mobilize the vote efforts still only like 1/3 of the people voted?
I'm using California as an example since I live here. But when a country is as ideologically divided as it is now, isn't it better for the regions with different beliefs to break off from the stifling repression of the central authority? I say this with the caveat that actions like the previous Civil War were necessary due to necessity of stopping the injustice of slavery. Other than issues such as that, however, isn't it best for a large geographic region at odds with a stifling ruling power to determine its own destiny?
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools The way to dusty death. --Will
Now that GW has been re-elected and we can now blame America as a nation for it, I am wondering how the Republican Guard is going to propagate fear. Are Americans really going to swallow another 4 years of yellow alerts and Dick Cheney's evil laugh? On the other hand, they already swallowed 3 years and asked for seconds.
I can't believe Kerry conceded this early, with the electoral vote so close, and damn the popular vote, Bush lost it last time. What if the Electoral College tips the balance back?
And what about the election machines? No Dem lawyers to challenge the integrity of the vote due to the closed-box election machines? Will we never know if this was an electronically stolen election? I think it's gonna be done by a stealthy hacker team who swipe one of each type of election machine, taking them to an undisclosed secure lab, dissecting them until the truth is known, then they'll release a report declaring the findings.
I'll say it loud: Bush is dangerous for security. He has triggered the creating of many more new terrorists. World peace will go downhill from here. Expect abortion to be challenged thanks to imminent Supreme Court replacements.
And those tax cuts? Just a bribe to get a second term: We're all paying that back plus interest for the next couple decades, thank you very much. The Bush economy will obviously not lift that boat far enough to make it float. I know and have met many who voted for Bush purely on the basis of the rebate they received. They make a lot of angry hand-waving gestures when confronted with the fiscal reality that those tax cuts came out of money borrowed against debt - future tax revenues.
Big Daddy, Johnny, Burp, Aunt Zelda, Scott, Slurp, Big Momma
Why don't you just start a website and call it Send-a-Liberal-to-Canada.com and take donations. My guess is you could start chartering buses by the end of the week.
With the amount of massive foreign debt we are currently holding, coupled with the public's unwillingness to deal with this issue at all in any capacity, means massive fiscal crises are almost certain. The fact that economists cannot even determine if it will be inflationary or deflationary shows you how random this scenario is. We're in uncharted fiscal waters kids...the US is the center of the world economy and also the world's largest debtor.
I'm sure most ppl are glad this is over. Let's hope that both sides can come together and work to fix the things that are wrong with this nation and regain repect for each other.
I think the hate from this election hit all time highs. This country really needs to bong over the next four years. No gloathing and no whining.
-- "The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant: It's just that they know so much that isn't so.
Thank you for electing me, even though we'll never know because Kerry conceded. Funny how we'll never know if I won the first one either, right? ha, ha! Anyway, I would like to explain what the new rules will be. You shall not covet your wife's neighbor. You shall not use steel. You shall not... Hang on.. This sounds wrong! Did my dad write this again? I'll be right back, I need to rework my strategery... We gotta kill the Japanians and deport the Iraqians! I'm a little bitter. As a foreigner living in the US with a green card, my future suddenly got a couple of shades darker. As a citizen of the world, my chances of getting bombed just rose a few percents. I'm annoyed and sad.
You are in a maze of little twisting passages, all different.
I have a very different perspective here in the US. There seemed to be very few voters who truly wanted Kerry as president. The majority of those who voted for Kerry were really voting "not Bush".
The rest of the world does not take a "blind eye to terrorism". Contrary to what you may believe, people in Britain, Ireland, Spain and many other nations have been dealing with violent radical groups for decades. You seem to suggest that failing to blunder blindly into knee-jerk reactions against such groups is somehow cowardly.
The reason that most of the world outside the US is concerned by the re-election of Bush is that he seems to conduct his "war on terror" in a short-sighted manner, regardless on what the ramifications will be for future generations. The reason that anti-American ideologies are rife in Islamic states is largely due to US foreign policy in the past. It is disturbing to even hypothesise what kind of problems will result from four more years of Bush's terrorist pogrom.
I presume you are thinking this way because you know nothing about either economy nor terrorism. If you knew a bit about how the US conducts business with his "trade partners" of the rest of the world, you'd say otherwise. Embargo this, RAISE import taxes on that... The USA is a big country and a lot of countries in the rest of the world depend greatly on business with the USA.
As for terrorism, I reaaly encourage you to learn about why some of the Middle East countries ar mad at the USA and why the USA feels the need to do preventive wars. You'll also find out why the rest of the world doesn't feel like it'S their business to stop this so called terrorism.
The rest of the world takes a calculated blind eye on terrorism, knowing that America will probably be the target and/or come to the defense of anyone hit hard
When you said America, you ment the continent, right? As in Canada, the USA, Mexico, Brazil, Cuba, etc.
Got MILF? It does a body good!
...a rich, white Bonesman won the election. What a surprise! Good thing there were two to choose from. Gotta have that freedom of choice, you know. With the wonderful two-party system we have, we get to pick either six of one, or half-a-dozen of the other. Thank God our votes mean something!
I am not responsible for failure to detect sarcasm in the above post. Consult your local smartass immediately if you have any questions.
http://xkcd.com/386/
Not one +5 about the "memory card problems" or other oddities. When does all that source code get scrutinized? How will things ever get better?
Funny how that works, isn't it?
And when he conceded he disenfranchised hundreds of thousands of Ohio voters by telling them he didn't care about their votes. I'm sure the Democrats will lose Ohio in 2008 as well.
I thought we were supposed to count votes in a democracy? If Kerry was going to concede, he could have done it months ago and saved me some time.
mbbac
I'd like one Bush voter, just one, to do two things.
One, demonstrate that he has actually paid attention to the news and to what Bush has actually said and done. Anyone who isn't aware that Bush has acknowledged that there was no link between 911 and Saddam, and that there was no active or planned atomic/biological/chemical warfare program in Iraq, is ineligable for this poll.
Two, explain why they voted for Bush in rational, practical terms. What they believe Bush will do during the next four years that might actually improve the international or domestic situation. Perhaps some specific promise that they believe he has the will and ability to carry out. Keep the first part of your answer in mind here, if you believe he's going to follow through, can you point to similar promises he made in 2000 that he's followed through on?
Since Bush has only won one election, does that mean he gets to run again in 2008?
It's a joke, party tools, spare me your flames...
Trouble making decisions? Just flip for it.
Anyone know if our favorite Senator of all time, Orrin Hatch, was running for re-election, used up his term, defeated, or what? I'm curious to see if that crazy old man is still in office. If so, my computer asplode.
What depresses me the most about this is when GWB was elected, we didn't know what he was going to do. Now, with this election the American people have said "I agree with what you've done and would like more."
I'm an American in London and used to be able to tell Europeans that I hope most of the American people don't approve of Bush and wouldn't have voted him in if they knew what he was going to do. Now I see that I am wrong and I despair.
The reason we lost is because we have not justified and defined a real leftist agenda. The Rightwing, on the other hand, has spent 30 years or more defining and justifying the RIghtwing agenda. We all "know" that low taxes are good for "The Economy" and we all "know" that productivity should be ever high and we all "know" that low labor costs are good and we all "know" that welfare states are bad and we all "know" that government managed healthcare is a disaster, etc etc etc. And why do we "know" all these things? Because the rightwing propaganda machine has been pushing them down our throats via the teevee, radio and newspapers for the last 30 years.
THe rightwing propaganda machine starts with nonprofit foundations and think tanks that pay for studies and write articles based on those studies. Of course, because there is no criminal penalty for cooked, bogus studies, and no money to check these studies and news articles that are based on these studies, the rightwing propaganda machine is able to dominate the media agenda. THey have the money. THey are funded into the billions by billionaires and global corporations.
THe news articles based on these studies are propagated to media outlets (tv radio papers) where they reach the public.
The rightwing propaganda machine also does many other things, such as fund up and coming rightwing media talent, e.g., giving grants to promising rightwing radio talk show hosts, authors and reporters, consultants etc.
Also, because the rightwing propaganda machine has so much money to give, most high profile media figures, reporters, etc, know that after they quit working at their current job with the networks, newspaper, etc, if they are ideologically "suitable, they can get lots of fat consultancy gigs with the rightwing propaganda machine, as long as they do not piss them off.
So the rightwing propaganda machine is like a huge planet in a solar system, or maybe even like the sun itself.
If liberals want to change America, they need to fund a LEFTwing propaganda machine. It costs money. Unfortunately, the entities with the money want to keep their money. So they are not about to fund a LEFTwing propaganda machine. So it is up to us.
Once we do get a a LEFTwing propaganda machine, we need to make sure it pushes OUR agenda, and it needs to get down to the nitty gritty of the issues. We need to make the case to the American people that high taxation is where it is at. And it really is. All we have to do is show people that high tax welfare states are a great place to live. Look at countries like Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Belgium, France, etc. Do you see a lot of citizens coming over here from there to live permanently? No! Yes, some of them (the cream of the crop) came over here doing the IT boom to make more money, but they know they have a good deal there.
We need to make the case that America is a partnership and we are getting ripped off by the richest Americans.
Crank up a LEFTwing propaganda machine. Start generating facts and figures. Start with healthcare. Show Americans exactly what is going on with nationalized universal healthcare in places like Canada, Sweden, Denmark, France etc.
Show how West Europe and their unions and restricted trade benefits the people. Hell, in Sweden it is quite difficult to expand a business. But there are reasons for that. Show Ameiricans that having corporations get their fingers into every pie disempowers the average person.
Teach America the game theory of politics.
To change America, we need to define our issues and an agenda. The problem is that we have simply moved along to the right with the GOP, keeping ever so slightly to the left of the GOP. No wonder white suburban and rural middle class Americans do not trust the Democrats. They seem to simply see the Left as a tool of the minorities for ripping them off for the welfare checks of the urban minorities.
But to do all this we need a LEFTwing propaganda machine. But we have to pay for it.
----All about Leftism
eat shiat and bark at the moon
All this election has proven, is that Americans are as easily persuaded by false rhetoric as any others. I am ashamed of my country, and embarassed at the lack of foresight and worldliness over half of my countrymen have expressed. To the world: Sorry.
It's not as simple as that, hoser.
Through it all, we're still Americans. (Well... The American readers, anyway.) The system of electing our president for the next four years worked like it should. That is something that both sides can be proud of.
For the "foreigners" readng this post: This is how American politics goes sometimes. There are winners, there are losers. If you don't like the way our elections turned out (based on the posts I've seen in the recent past, I think that's an understatement), too bad. I'm not going to apologize to anyone about the way our system works. The American people chose who their president would be for the next four years, and that's that.
When politicians are involved, everyone loses.
> Despite the alleged "split" in the country.... There were no riots in the street.
Come on now, the election results only came out this morning. Who could possibly have had time to organize a riot? Give them a few days...
here you go!
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
Oh SHIT!
# cat
Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
So we saw this coming, I suppose, and while most of us do not like it, it is finished. This is a testament both to Kerry's character as well as America's democratic process. I wish the candidates the best of luck now that it is over, and I hope that America does not go to hell.
This is yet another case where I wish America was on the popular vote system rather than the electoral vote system. Bush clearly won the popular vote by a factor of 3,529,724. While I didn't vote for Bush based on these numbers I could move on. But the Bush lead in Ohio is 136,221, a margin lower than the amount of votes still left uncounted. I can not in good conscience say that Bush won our election so long as provisional and absentee votes are yet uncounted, to do so would be un-American.
This is a testament to the American democratic process, a process that serves to divide a nation rather than unite it.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
you're not any safer.
your deficit isn't any lower.
you're not creating new jobs.
your government isn't any smaller than before.
and you'll probably never _elect_ anyone ever again.
...vividly encapsulates that post-Watergate/pre-punk/coked-up moment when you could trust no one, least of all yourself.
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/arti cles/2004/10/22/divide_seen_in_voter_knowledge/
By Alan Wirzbicki, Globe Correspondent | October 22, 2004
WASHINGTON -- Supporters of President Bush are less knowledgeable about the president's foreign policy positions and are more likely to be mistaken about factual issues in world affairs than voters who back John F. Kerry, a survey released yesterday indicated.
A large majority of self-identified Bush voters polled believe Saddam Hussein provided "substantial support" to Al Qaeda, and 47 percent believe that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction before the US invasion. Among the president's supporters, 57 percent queried think international public opinion favors Bush's reelection, and 51 percent believe that most Islamic countries support "US-led efforts to fight terrorism."
No weapons of mass destruction have been found in Iraq, the Sept. 11 Commission found no evidence of substantial Iraqi support for Al Qaeda, and international public opinion polls have shown widespread opposition to Bush's reelection.
In contrast, among Kerry supporters polled only 26 percent think Iraq had such weapons, 30 percent say Iraq was linked to Al Qaeda, and 1 percent said foreign public opinion favors Bush.
The polls results, said Steven Kull, the head of the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the University of Maryland, which conducted the survey, showed that Americans are so polarized two weeks before the election that many lack even a common understanding of the facts.
"It is rather unique the extent to which we have different perceptions of reality," Kull said.
On other international issues, the survey found that around 70 percent of Bush supporters responding believe that the president supports participation in the land mine treaty and the comprehensive nuclear test ban treaty, and a narrower majority believes he supports the International Criminal Court and Kyoto Accords. In fact, Bush opposes all four treaties.
Kerry supporters correctly identified their candidate's position on every foreign policy issue in the survey except defense spending. Only 43 percent of the Democrat's supporters know he wants to keep the Pentagon budget at the same level rather than cut or expand it.
The survey was conducted in three waves, Sept. 3-7, Sept. 8-12, and Oct. 12-18, by the polling firm Knowledge Networks. The poll's margin of error is between 3.2 and 4 percent.
Kull said it is common for voters to tailor their views on particular issues to those of the candidate they favor overall, but the extent to which Bush supporters are filtering out news from Iraq that might reflect poorly on the president is unprecedented.
According to the survey, the difference doesn't reflect lack of access to information about Iraq.
The poll found that perceptions did not vary significantly by level of education among those who plan to vote for Bush.
And many of the Bush voters surveyed knew that the Duelfer report said Hussein had no WMDs, but continue to believe that he did regardless.
Kull suggested the dissonance among Bush voters reflects the country's difficulty coming to grips with the discrediting of the rationale for the Iraq war.
"This period will really stand out as when the US went to war on assumptions that turned out to be incorrect," he said. "The body politic is still struggling to come to terms with that."
If lunar colonization were the result of the people of the world fleeing the second W. presidential term, it might be worth it.
This sig seemed like a good idea at the time....
ALL HAIL CANADA!
The IL Republican party imploded after the last election cycle. The state is usually pretty evenly split (Dem's in Chicago, Reps in the middle, and socially conservative Dem's in the south). There's a fight brewing between the moderate Rep.s, and the hard right Rep.s in IL. The only Rep. that got elected to a state wide office in 2002 was a moderate Rep. The far right wing of the party got Alan Keyes to run for the US Senate over the objections of the moderate wing of the party after Jack Ryan was forced to quit (what's really wrong with wanting other people to see you have sex with Jerri Ryan aka 7of9?). I think that the Alan Keyes race was sort of a proxy fight for the Rep. party. The moderates didn't put up much of a fight over Keyes. Now that he's gotten trounced by Obama, the moderates can say 'see what happens when you nominate a far right candidate?' I expect the Rep. party to shake everything out by 2006. The current Dem. govenor is unpopluar with his own party. So, if the moderate Rep.s win their fight, I expect a Rep. Gov. will get elected in 06, and the state to be in play for 08... unless the national Dems nominate Cliton in 08. Then I predict a Regan/Mondale landslide for the national Rep. party.
A treat to eat, in a puppet that's neat!
I've seen this thread grow into civil war threats, fleeing the country, burning courthouses, etc.
I am here to help you guys.
There are MANY places on the net where you can purchase plane tickets and look for jobs and real estate elsewhere.
May I advise, if you're fed up with your country, either try to help it the right way, or if it bugs you THAT much: LEAVE!
The majority has spoken. You knew that this was the setup before the election and Bush won. Even the minority leader (D) was ousted in place of a Republican!
Go ahead and mod me down.
Get paid to code OSS
Go on patting your own shoulder for handling democratic elections well.
It is for sure great to be an American. Something to be proud of.
Age group of 18-29 again represented only 17% of the vote after large amounts of money, time, and hype was expended on getting the vote out. Congratulations Kids! Once again your apathy shines through.
... that Bush would rethink its plans for the next four years based on the fact that almost half of the electorate didn't vote for him. It is really unfortunate that we have been hurting so much our image overseas.
Looks like all of the republicans didn't take my e-mail seriously and voted on Tuesday instead of Wednesday! This was only to help with all of the congestion with such a high voter turnout this year...
This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
One good thing for the coutry as a whole is that the popular vote matched up with who won - that should help eliminate a whole category of people proclaiming the winner was not really the winner and make the results less embittering to some.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
One way or the other, I am sure we are just happy it is over, no 5 weeks of law suites. I did vote for Bush but I do believe Kerry did the horrible thing in conceding; instead putting what gore put us though in 2000. I hold now ill will to Senator Kerry and I wish him luck in what he does in the future.
You fucking idiots. Love and kisses, The rest of the world
fortune -o
"F - l - o - r - i - d - a"
You could've hired me.
so, who wants bets on how long it will take osama to attack us? i got bets on 2-3 weeks. anyone else want in?
A sad day specially for those of us outside the US; however bad bush might be in domestic affairs, it's his handling of international politics that's most worrisome (" I don't like that country, let's blow them to smithereens and have the american people pay for it in money and blood"). Sad indeed.
They just jumped right on the bandwagon before the results are in.
The two guys who have been hosting the show this afternoon have been particularly bad. Framing this as a massive victory when it is so slim. And Just going with the line that it should all be decided quickly because its the decent thing.
The only person sticking up for Kerry and talking down this massive victory crap is a democratic pollster, and he's doing it in a very diplomatic way.
The 'senior bush advisor' they had on had absolutely no fight in him.
The BBC should be ashamed of themselves.
There are some who say this started a while ago - the Bush types just hasten it and make it a much more gruesome spectacle.
- No Clue.
Let us all pray for God to bless America.
I think the real question is, where did all the bush haters / kerry supporters go that you were only able to pull 48% of the vote? The're just louder so they sound like a greater number. People who arent as upset with the current state arent as likely to be vocal.
Crap shit fuck damn it all to hell.
Now we have a Senate, House, and Presidency all in control by the GOP. 11 states have banned gay marriage. Alaska threw all reason out the window and didn't legalize marijuana (which includes hemp, an amazing industrial plant). I must say, these next four years (and definitely the next two) are going to suck... big time.
I apologize world, but my vote against W wasn't enough.
I didn't say the rest of the world doesn't see it at home nor did I accuse anyone of being cowardly. However, anyone else's efforts to curb it haven't exactly worked well. The train wreck before Spain's election is a very prime example of such. I really believe the rest of the world needs to work with the US a bit more on this issue. I know our actions haven't been completely right, but I also don't think we're completely wrong either.
The idea behind taking out governments like those in Iraq and Afghanistan is to give the country a chance at electing its own leadership. Democratic goverments do show better economic growth, personal income, and education than those that are not democratic. This has been studied in many economic journals. I'm optimistic about the futures of the two countries I mentioned. It's rough going there now, but I happen to believe they will turn it around. Change is never easy, and never instantaneous.
I'm curious, though. Everyone is all over my terrorism comment, but nobody can refute my statement on economies?
... but both won't be accepted in "American Heartland" (Kitchen | Plantation vs. White House). Btw.: Why has Washington D.C. 90% pro Kerry votes? Everybody there should love the President!
European comment, but I still live in the U.S. (Florida!!!).
Does anyone think I would have a realistic shot if I went to the nearest Canadian embassy and applied for political asylum?
No, really.
I think there is a world market for maybe five personal web logs.
Despite all the money and effort to bring out the 18-29 yo vote, only 17% of them turned out to do so. Why can they not be inspired to do their civic duty while a large group of evangelical lemmings did theirs??? If Karl Rove (that shill) could conjure up a strategy to make that group come out in droves by emphasizing on issues important to them (ie cultural issues), then someone else ought to go and figure out what is important to them.
I remember listing to a recent story about a youth voter registration drive on NPR and one college girl described the process as akin to her parents nagging her to do something. Some of these people don't realize they CAN make a difference. The mistake is that a candidate didn't float any credible balloons of issues younger voters feel they can make a difference on.
(I guess many of my fellow citizens want to vote for someone who is just like them... *sigh*)
Sanity.html - Error 404 not found
It's all Diebold's fault
4 more years of listening to pathetic whimpering and whining by the klintonistas. 4 more years of listening to lame-assed sour grapes excuses. damn.
they were snotty winners when clinton won. since then, they've just been weaselly losers.
Check out the California Governor's office sometime.
Ok, all you left wing wankers get over it. The country is a better place, now STFU!!
This is a test. This is a test of the emergency sig system. This has been only a test.
I voted for Kodos/Turd Sandwich.
Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
The last thing this nation needs is another drawn out court battle to decide the presidency. Kerry did the honorable thing considering his slim-none chances of pulling Ohio out.
Life will go on. It's a sad day for sure, but life will go on. We are all Americans, first and foremost.
The last thing the world (including america) needs is another 4 yrs of Bush. Kerry appears to have lost fair and square, so is sencible to concede early (ish).
Life will go on. It's a sad day for humanity, sure, but life will go on. (It will probably be more violent,polluted and corperate, but it will go on, except for those that are killed by an aggressive foriegn policy.)
We are all Humans, first and foremost. Any ethnic, religous or regional allegiance must always come second.
My spelling isn't bad, I'm evolving the language
The rest of the world can't seem to manage its own economy (see europe, and basically anywhere else that isn't the US, China, or South Korea).
:)
Is a $0.5 trillion defict proper management of an economy? How about the mass exodus of tech jobs to India?
The rest of the world takes a calculated blind eye on terrorism, knowing that America will probably be the target
You mean the rest of the world that suffers from daily suicide bombings? It's been what, 3 years now since the last attack on American soil?
and/or come to the defense of anyone hit hard.
And whether they like it or not.
The rest of the world doesn't set much of an example for everyone else to follow.
It is the stubborn American idea of setting such an example that is the source of most the world's resentment of it. Sovereign nations other than America are every bit as competent and capable of managing themselves properly. Shockingly, that even involves doing things differently than America.
Foreign nations are quite justified in feeling insulted when americans tell them there own policies are wrong. When America plans it's foreign policy around changing the policies of other nations, it's small wonder those nations are resentfull.
"God bless President Bush, and God bless America."
Hey, fuckwad, Osama Bin Laden hates your country - why would he care who's running it?
Oh yeah, I forgot, your doctrine says that tape was a "clear attempt to sway voters"
Sorry, I forgot what I was talking to.
The American voters have brought shame on their once-great country. You can kiss our collective ass.
Fucking idiot. You disgust me.
/. is arrested on some trumped up charges, shut the fuck up with the Nazi analogies.
Let me ask you a simple question.
Has there been a single thing that Bush has done that has directly encroached on your freedom to do anything? Has he banned any books? Sent police to your house? Have the FBI visited you questioning why you are a political disident? Has it happened to anyone you know? Shit, has it happened to anyone THEY know?
Of course not, but fucking jerk offs like you will be the first people to antiquaint legislation like the PATRIOT Act (Which I admit, is bad legislation) to the Nuremberg Laws.
Until one person, one single person, on
Bush is the first incumbent president since World War II to be reelected with an approval rating of under 50%.
Bush is the first president since Herbert Hoover (1929-1933) to see a net loss of jobs while in office. Hoover lost his reelection bid, Bush didn't.
Most polls in the days leading up to the election had Kerry narrowly winning on a state-by-state basis and most exit polls said the same.
Normally, I'd just say, "What do you know, conventional wisdom and the polls got it wrong." However, with what happened in Florida last time, coupled with the controversies surrounding the voting machines, my first thought is, "Was this election fair?"
Without the paper trails, we'll never know.
your sig should be ammended to include or a product of ones last name, and a large portion of luck.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
.. from the US.
Honestly..
Can't be any worse than Regan, whose wife told him what to do, even during press conferences- microphones repeatedly would "accidentally" pick up her whispering to him what to say, probably because the press was so horrified but knew they've be kicked out of the WH press core if they told anyone about it.
How did Nancy Regan make her decisions? Naturally, her astrologer.
People say Regan was the greatest president ever- he was absolutely nothing of the sort. The idiot couldn't even speak in public without his wife, much less make a decision without her and her fucking astrologer. It's no wonder he drove the country into the ground and it makes me want to throw up when I hear anyone recount him as a great leader.
Please help metamoderate.
When it gave up being an English language country it began its collapse into a meaningless entity in world affairs.
After Bush was rewarded after his four years in office for what he had done with anohter four years, it won't be Linux vs. BSD. The debates will be on U.S. vs. whoever Bush wants to bomb.
> You got Bush, in democratic elections
Yes, we got Bush in democratic elections. I have no problem with that. He got more votes than Kerry. I DO have a problem with being in a country where that would happen. The lunacy of living in a country where slightly more than half the population believes a complete idiot bent on making America the next Empire is fit to run things. I thank God that I am over the age of the coming draft, and that I've already done my service (8 years, Force Recon... yes, I've killed (many) random strangers so we can enjoy the "freedom" we have). I'm scared for the youth of this nation.
First and formemost, it's pronounced Can'eh'jun, not Canadian.
You must learn the fine art of chucking out 'eh's at every opportunity ( see above).
You must cease putting 'r's in word that don't have them ( It's washington, not warshington)
You will need to learn how to be polite.
Snow is your friend - you will learn to curse it vociferously
You need to adapt to temperatures ranging from 95 to -60
You will need to learn that Canada is NOT a Democracy, only the appearance of Democracy
You will need to learn how to pay up to 54% of your salary in taxes
You will need to learn to live with currency that has the purchasing power of Fava beans.
You will learn to be proud of having a leader, who, while being a totally immoral, insensitive, clueless piece of shit, will actually place an attacker in a neck grip on their own.
I voted mostly Libertarian for all races I could (not that any won, but still). I agree that we have to get a lot more third party candidates aprinkled all through the system and working up to higher positions before they can become president.
But it's not unthinkable a major groundswell of support in a presidental election could happen, and that in turn would mean a lot of recognition that would boost local candidates. I think there was for instance a brief period of support for third parties after Perot, and if that could have been sustained it could really have pushed independant candidates forward.
I just really wonder how many third party votes were lost to people trying to defeat Bush. It could have been enough (as others have noted) to make it much easier for third parties to get on the ballot next time. This time around they really got shafted.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Hi-Tech states lost. Look on map.
Damn...
... but the prospect of four more years of his politics does not bother me half as much as the possibility that he might die in an accident and we would end up with .... ughhhhh.... Dick Cheney as president in his place. Even a sack of potates would be a more inspiring president than Cheney.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
*NM*
Because of the news that voters picked "moral values" as a main reason they voted, an issue that overwhelmingly favored Bush:
I, for one, welcome our new fundamentalist christian overlords.
(Ha, ha, only serious.)
---------The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Them move to France...
So was Walden O'Dell, the diebold CEO, successful in his boast of carrying Ohio for bush?
t m /conspiracy mode off
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0828-08.h
Steven V>
I patented screwing your mom. But it got revoked for "prior art."
The US has just deployed the most powerful Weapons of Self-distruction on her own soil.
Dear DNC,
Please take the results of this election as a strong hint, and please go meditate in a corner somewhere until you have the following revelation:
Although you and the members of your party are strongly attracted to smarmy candidates who love the camera and the sound of their own voice, you must realize that much of the country detests this kind of person. People do not like being talked down to, and our country is not desperately seeking the next JFK.
You failed to capitalize on the fact that many moderate-conservative people were disappointed with Bush's performance over the last 4 years. You failed to recognize the opportunity to bring these people into your camp, which would have been quite a feat considering many of the people in your camp are hippies that do not bathe. Instead, you nominated another rich, pre-manufactured, pompous character that non-Democrats just didn't want to deal with. You forced a lot of people to hold their nose and vote for Bush because John Kerry represents everything that sucks about the Democratic Party.
I hope you all learned something. See ya in 2008.
Love,
Retrospecter
OK. If US people want this president one more time, I've nothing to say but "Good luck".
And now for four more years of the usual thought substituting buzzwords:
'we are a nation of immigrants' (...and > 90% European derived until a few decades ago).
'diversity is our strength' (war is peace, freedom is slavery, etc)
'"heal the divide" via reparations, affirmative action, reverse discrimination' (ad nauseam)
'hate crime laws must be enforced' (...how about 'bad crime laws'? same jingoism)
'it's time for europeans/christians/males/etc to "pay back"' (...for being alive)
'nationalism must be abolished, we are a global village now' ('cause nationalism is only good for the master race, err "chosen tribe" in US taxpayer-funded Israel. Goyim cannot be trusted to look after their own interests)
From the outside - specifically Australia (we have our own shame named Howard, of course) - this is not just a shame, it's terrifying. The most common word phrase I've heard in the last hour has been "oh shit, bush won."
:-(
It's bad enough for the rest of the world, but Howard will take this as validation of his own beliefs and policies and tie us even more firmly to the runaway train that is US foreign policy.
I'd be scared for the stupidity involved if I wasn't so miserable about the whole thing. Howard winning over here was quite bad enough
Time for Gloat Party 2004!!! I'll be dancing on the political grave of John Kerry! Today is the day to get that Dr. Evil laugh and let 'er rip!
Tomorrow we will heal all divisive wounds.
But, today, Muuwaaa Haaaa Haaaaa! Muuuuaaaaa Haaaaa Haaaaaa!!
There are less provisonal ballots official issued by the state than the margin of victory.
The real issue is this, why if elections are so important why do we not require a picture ID to prove who you claim to be?
It seems fine to ask for identification when getting a loan, buying property, registering a car, and many other activities yet the most important is one where some seem to want to introduce fraudulent behavior.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
why the heck was the parent modded flamebait??? it's true, Kerry is the better man for having the cojones to concede rather than seeing America dragged through the same circus that happened last time... could you see Bush conceding if things were in exactly the reverse position and we were only waiting for the absentee and provisional ballots to be counted??? no chance, Bush would never concede...
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
Hillary Clinton is thoroughly hated by a large portion of the country and would be an extremely divisive candidate. And to top it off she's not especially personable. Though popular with insiders she would be a big mistake.
Barak Obama the Golden Boy has real potential but needs to prove himself in office. I don't think four years is enough.
Honestly I can't think of any really obvious candidate with a good shot. The democrats need another appealing moderate. How I wish an independent candidate with real potential will arise.
A second question is who will run in 2008 for the republicans? It ain't gonna be Cheney, that's for sure. I wouldn't put it past them to try to run Bush again, or another Bush. McCain is out. They could butcher the Constitution and all common sense and then try to run Schwartzenegger, who at least seems to be moderate in CA.
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
So, now we have a President / Commander in Chief during wartime. He has a Republican House and Senate and does not have to worry about pleasing the American people because he cannot run again.
If I were George W Bush I would activate ALL military reservists, enact the draft, and send mass troops to Iraq to disarm their entire nation and impose martial law. Oh, and by the way build the Marine base right over there. Set the price of oil about $5 a barrel and start loading up the tankers.
I doubt he will be SO harsh, there is a reason I am not a presidential candidate. But, I wouldn't be surprised if the gloves come off and he actually wields the force required to conquer Iraq.
God bless America!
Nick Powers
http://www.nickpowers.info/
Encryption: I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend your right to encrypt it...
For those Americans who need to start learning it, I am posting the lyrics here to Oh Canada:
The Canadian Anthem
"O Canada"
O Canada! Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.
With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North, strong and free!
From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
Refrain
O Canada, glorious and free!
We stand on guard, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee!
O Canada! Where pines and maples grow.
Great prairies spread and lordly rivers flow.
How dear to us thy broad domain,
From East to Western Sea,
Thou land of hope for all who toil!
Thou True North, strong and free!
Refrain
O Canada, glorious and free!
We stand on guard, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee!
O Canada! Beneath thy shining skies
May stalwart sons and gentle maidens rise,
To keep thee steadfast through the years
From East to Western Sea,
Our own beloved native land!
Our True North, strong and free!
Refrain
O Canada, glorious and free!
We stand on guard, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee!
Ruler supreme, who hearest humble prayer,
Hold our dominion within thy loving care;
Help us to find, O God, in thee
A lasting, rich reward,
As waiting for the Better Day,
We ever stand on guard.
Refrain
O Canada, glorious and free!
We stand on guard, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee!
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
> that won because he openly advocated limiting
> civil rights of an etnic group, and used it to divide the country.
People want to have a president who shares their values in order to have the kind of a country they want to live in. In case you haven't noticed, people in 11 states decided that gay marriage was unacceptable. I suspect that majorities in other states hold similar views, and if the majority wants something, in a true democracy they would get it, since that is the definition of democracy.
> It sickens me to think that people who never voted
> before said "Whoa, nothing else has mattered to me in
> the last 20 years, but the QUEERS WANT TO GET MARRIED!
> Jarlene, find me my votin' hat!"
When you see the moral standards of your society being destroyed, what good man would not act, if the decline could be stopped, or at least slowed by simply showing up and voting NO? If he does not want homosexuality to become an accepted practice, surely it is the right thing to do.
Here's the HOWTO:
Just vote Republican.
Remember, it wasn't the Republicans who brought up the draft, it was the Democrats.
It was Democratic congressmen Charley Rangel and Fritz Hollings who introduced the bill to reinstate the draft. Fortunately, the Republican-controlled House killed it and it was DOA.
Republicans know that an all-volunteer military is far, FAR preferable to conscription. It's the Democrats who are obsessed with draft-talk.
...but I find it a little surprising that there is no mention of a concession over at JohnKerry.com. There is also no denial of a concession, so maybe it's just lazy Kerry people figuring that their work is done now.
As one friend pointed out. . , "At least Arnie made good movies. Reagan's most popular film had the Gipper playing against a freekin' primate."
Arnie in office could happen. Easily. Hell, the populace voted for Bush, didn't they? (Or at least that's how the networks tell it.)
So we can look forward to having the world hacked down by Bush the Psycho and then ushered to its end by a freekin' Terminator. How painfully ironic is that? (In that dumbed-down American style of irony which the Apocalypse Cultists in the bible belt might be able to grasp.) What is it about living near water and mountains which raises awareness while being surrounded by lots of flat has the power to retard people into shucking-dung heaps? Something about perspective? Can it be that simple?
--Anyway, Arnie as Prez could happen unless of course Bush decides to crown himself god-emperor for life. Though, such a move might undermine the illusion of democracy. Couldn't have that! The people might actually DO something then! (Not bloody likely.)
I knew this was going to be a shitty day, but Bush? BUSH?!?! What the hell is wrong with everybody out there? (Not including two thirds of Slashdotters. --I'm happy that readers of this forum went largely Kerry in the Slashpoll. Lesser of two evils, sure, but lesser is something at this point).
And people talk about the Democratic campaign being a poor show. Whatever. I'd have voted for an actual donkey at this point.
-FL
The reason we lost is because we have not justified and defined a real leftist agenda
Oh really? I guess all the talking points, memos, meetings, and the majority of the mass media just don't exist then.
We all "know" that low taxes are good for "The Economy"
Yes, even Nobel prize winning economists agree.
we all "know" that welfare states are bad
Welfare states do not promote producivity and promote stagnated economies.
And why do we "know" all these things? Because the rightwing propaganda machine has been pushing them down our throats via the teevee, radio and newspapers for the last 30 years
Oh so all those years of individualism, self-reliance, the Constituion and Declaration of Independence are your examples of propaganda shoved down our throats?
Great one.
THe rightwing propaganda machine starts with nonprofit foundations and think tanks that pay for studies and write articles based on those studies. Of course, because there is no criminal penalty for cooked, bogus studies, and no money to check these studies and news articles that are based on these studies, the rightwing propaganda machine is able to dominate the media agenda. THey have the money. THey are funded into the billions by billionaires and global corporations.
Studies are just studies, and don't think the right-wing dominates them. The left-wing dominates academia and they have plenty of their own "think-tanks" pushing out their agenda.
Why would there be a penalty for publishing studies? Not just bearing the fact that we have a thing called Freedom of Speech (apparently you're against that), studies are just studies, not a solid conclusion.
THe news articles based on these studies are propagated to media outlets (tv radio papers) where they reach the public.
Really? So all those special features on Dateline about how the tax cut hurt the poor, the published studies that overstated the effects of second hand smoking, and all those studies about the alleged lack of safety (which was very overstated) at nuclear plants were all done by right wing hacks?
Also, because the rightwing propaganda machine has so much money to give, most high profile media figures, reporters, etc, know that after they quit working at their current job with the networks, newspaper, etc, if they are ideologically "suitable, they can get lots of fat consultancy gigs with the rightwing propaganda machine, as long as they do not piss them off.
Are you really American? The media is left-wing, not right wing. Survey after survey of journalists show that they have liberal leanings.
Once we do get a a LEFTwing propaganda machine, we need to make sure it pushes OUR agenda, and it needs to get down to the nitty gritty of the issues. We need to make the case to the American people that high taxation is where it is at. And it really is. All we have to do is show people that high tax welfare states are a great place to live. Look at countries like Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Belgium, France, etc. Do you see a lot of citizens coming over here from there to live permanently? No! Yes, some of them (the cream of the crop) came over here doing the IT boom to make more money, but they know they have a good deal there.
You bemoan propaganda being shoved down our throats, so you want more just as long as it represents your views?
This is a rather loaded statement. Unemployment in Europe (and I know France, especially) is rampantly high. However, the reason why their systems of politics and economy work is becuase the culture supports it. Americans don't want socialism. Americans want to earn their way up, not on the backs of the rich. Americans want their individualism. You do not understand that.
Hell, in Sweden it is quite difficult to expand a business. But there are reasons for that. Show Ameiricans that having corporations get their fingers into every pie disempowers the a
With the current state of America, it's not very surprising that Bush won out. There seems to be a popular sentiment (in the U.S., not on Slashdot) that appearing "strong to the world" and having "strong faith and character" are the most important issues...it's really amazing that Bush was able to pull off the whole character and faith thing. What a sham. Jesus preached love and peace for our fellow humans; Christians are to be peaceable and leave vengance and judgement to God (look up Romans 12:18-19 if you want to see it in black and white). I'm not saying that Kerry was any better, but at least he didn't have the Texas cowboy mentality that Bush seems to throw around. As far as appearing strong to the world, it seems that most Americans still don't get this one either. The biggest reason why people in the middle east (and around the world) dislike the U.S. in general is that they continue to act like the "American Way" is the best way and any other way is wrong and their responsibility to change. Terrorism will continue to thrive as long as the U.S. continues to act as a global bully. Until this country can start thinking of themselves as global citizens and not think of the world as potential U.S. territory America won't be safe from radicals on the other side of the fence.
As far as the Democratic party, I think the writing is on the wall for them. They have clearly failed to adapt and evolve in the new millenium and against the Republican propaganda machine. I'm not a fan of a "two party system", but there needs to be some kind of strong alternative to the conservative extremism that is taking over America. This is my own opinion, but I would be willing to bet that sometime in the next 10-20 years (hopefully less) either the Democratic party will comepletely redefine themselves or a new party will finally be able to break through and replace the Democrats as the other major party alongside the Republicans. You read it here first...
I know odds are slim, but the notion entertains me...
What happens if vote-count turns in Kerry's favor in the end? Kerry backed down, BUSH doesn't win... I say we get 4 years of anarchy!! At least it'll be better than alternatives. Either of them.
'...computers in the future may have only 1000 vacuum tubes and perhaps weigh 1.5 tons...' Popular Mechanics, 03/49'
To all of the people who voted for Kerry: Thank you, you've done your duty. To all who support Kerry but didn't vote: you're worse than Bush.
To the republican party: you're assholes. You twist the truth and push your falsities as truth. You control Fox News and other media outlets and use them to shove your agenda down the throats of their viewers as bipartisan news. You're despicable.
Fox News needs to be taken out. George Bush should be sent into the wilderness with only hits wits to survive.
Not only did George Bush win, the House and Senate are Republican controlled. Welcome to hell.
I am disappointed in the United States people on this day. When did we become a populace of morons?
The major advantage of Bush winning is that Jon Culshaw can carry on doing his impressions.
p 1.shtml
http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/deadringers/clips/cli
Bin Laden can celebrate: 4 more years guaranted survival, courtesy of the president, who led them fled the country and who called off the search to find them.
Now we just have to find out what the next fake target will be. Iran?
when fucking over the common man...might even use a sex toy or two!
I for one welcome our new err.. old oppressive overlord!
..
He was the strongerest of the two candidates, and deserving of victory..
God help us.
I am the maverick of Slashdot
While I find him unbelieveably deplorable, you've got to hand it to Karl Rove and the Bush campaign.
I thought there was no way that this country would re-elect a president who had the worst attack on this country ever happen on his watch, presided over a terrible economy, mismanaged a war that was waged for questionable reasons to begin with and was soundly defeated in three consecutive debates with his opponent.
I think the answer was, make this election about God. Take the extremely divisive social issues in this country (stem cell research, abortion, gay rights) and make the election about them rather than the economy. While outwardly, the Bush campaign was all about the War on Terror, I think he owes his victory to the social issues. He's made no secret about his faith, and while that is somewhat noble, it also overshadowed his record for lots of people.
Coming out of mass two Sundays ago, I found an Ohio Right to Life flyer in my windshield telling me how Bush fairs on four "Pro-Life" issues compared to Kerry. While abortion issues were the top two, the third was "Faith Based Initiatives" and the fourth was a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage. While neither of these are pro-life issues, they were included on a Right to Life flyer, while another true pro-life issue, the death penalty (not to mention just and unjust wars) was conspicuously absent.
If there is one thing this election has proven, it is that Americans no longer desire a separation of church and state. And that frightens me more as a Catholic.
Who wouldn't want to live in a country that a religion is forced on you, they can seach your homes without warrent or reason, tap your phone lines without warrent, bans gay marriage, is totally right wing, has no socialized medicine, attacks everything in sight, and runs up a huge deficit, while giving tax cuts to the richest?
Tibbon
tibbon.com
Some states require the electors to refelect the vote of the people but most don't. One Republican elector did say before the election that he was voting for Kerry either way due to Bushes record. It's not enough to sway the election but he will loose one vote. If you want to see rioting in the streets see what happens if the college went against a four million popular vote margin. There would have been just cause in the last election. This time around it would be a disaster.
here's the fix.
this will solve all the problems, the deficit, the idiots from texas, the war, the president won't be president anymore, etc.
Sell Texas back to Mexico.
think about it... it fixes everything.
Runnin' On Empty
Does anyone have any suggestions regarding where someone tired of living in a Christian theocracy might move to?
When the war between the fundamentalist Muslims and the fundamentalist Christians escalates into WW III, I'd rather be watching from the sidelines in a country that has advanced beyond superstitions.
I'll be slightly more generous and give him until Christmas.
Dear the USA,
I think I speak for surprisingly many here in the world when I say:
YOU MANIACS. YOU BLEW IT UP. DAMN YOU. GOD DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL.
"Oppression and harassment is a small price to pay to live in the land of the free." -- Montgomery Burns.
...the counting in Ohio shows that Kerry actually won?
How binding is this concession?
We have enough bleeding heart, tax-and-spend, big government socialist fools up here already! We've had over 12 years of Liberal rule and things are a mess. Health care costs continue to spiral upwards with no accountability as to how the money is spent. Wait times for CAT scans and MRI's are measured in MONTHS, not days or weeks. They spent over a billion dollars on a gun registry that was supposed to cost 2 million. It works out to over $1000 per rifle registered. The interest we pay yearly on our Federal debt consumes 40% of our income taxes. This is debt that has been on the books for over 30 years now with no sign of it being repaid any time soon! Meanwhile the Liberal government funnelled hundreds of millions of dollars to advertising firms that were friendly to the Liberal Party. It makes me sick how wasteful this government is with our tax dollars. And during all of this they've done nothing to help the poor, the homeless, or the environment. So piss off! We don't want you!
I wasn't done hacking the Diebold voting machine
To Bush supporters:
Every exercise of power by your leader(s) in Washington D.C. is an opportunity for greater imposition of socialist tyrrany in the future. You will have to leave the country or fight because there won't be any State within the United States that can protect your rights.
Seastead this.
(nothing to see here, move along)
This way to the egress...
That's it. They lied. My vote didn't count. I had a mail-in ballot and they've declared the presidency before any of the mail-in ballots have been recieved. None of them counted. None of those votes matter. You don't matter.
And Kerry called in already to concede. Bullshit. You know what I want to see? I want to see someone dig up evidence that Kerry is in Bush's pocket. I want to see that he was the wrong bastard anyway. I want to see children screaming in the streets that they aren't going to have pencils or paper in school next year. I want to see a burst in the number of teenage girls getting pregnant, all because Bush is going to destroy Planned Parenthood's Take Charge program. I want to see those girls marching, chanting that their children aren't going to have a future. I want to see college students protesting that they won't recieve social-security ever. I want to see where the next bomb is going to be dropped. I want to see the faces of people who are waving Bush/Cheney '04 banners after their children don't have a place in America. Wait, those are all wealthy people holding those banners. They can do whatever they want--and your vote didn't count!
nohup rm -rf /
I feel really disappointed by this election. As a nation, we've just validated all the (bad) decisions that Bush has made for us in the last 4 years. We've validated the Iraq invasion, etc.
Looks like it's time to get another apology t-shirt: "I'm sorry my president's an idiot. I didn't vote for him."
I voted for Kodos.
I am the maverick of Slashdot
After all, Kerry never lies (Cambodia, anyone?). Bush is all lies. Must...bash...Bush. Cannot simply admit being wrong.
Mod up accordingly, please.
Well, I think this website might be popular today.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/
But as for the whole election it think Bart Simpson said it best..
"I didn't think it was physically possible, but this both sucks and blows. "
Sure a vote for an independant would not have gotten them into the presidency - same as Kerry.
However what a healthier percentage of votes for the third parties would have done is get them easier access to money in the future, and easier access to have candidates on the ballots.
So you can see that the third parties had a lot to gain by people voting for them, while the Democrats get nothing from the slight boost people gave them that really wanted third party candidates.
So people did nothing for the Democrats and helped screw over third parties even further by going with Kerry.
I am really wondering if this was the lowest numbers of votes for thrd parties in history, a major set back for Green and Libertarian alike if so.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Meanwhile hundreds of thousands of people across the world continue to immigrate to America annually, both legally and illegally. People are literally dying to get into America.
If you want to leave because you don't like the policies of the government, feel free, or just continue to voice your dissatisfaction.
Either of which, by the way, you would be prevented from doing, by force, in a religious police state...
Kiss our collective ass, from whence the sun shines. You keep sitting on yours while we battle the darkness. Hugs and snuggles, Uncle Sam.
--- Ban humanity.
four more years of hilarious Daily Shows.
I laugh at you. I laugh at all of you.
Everytime I post something remotely conservative you hypocritical "fist ammendment activists" mod it down. Well, now Bush has been modded up.
I will be laughing for the next four years.
for the next 4 years, invest money in energy companies that will rape consumers. collect profits in 4 years and donate to democratic candidate.
also, plenty of the bush votes came from christians who vote for him because... he's a tool of god or something dumb. if these people are that dumb, why not sucker some money out of them. sell some "jesus is cool" buttons or something. use this to fund evangelical atheism tours across the country to talk sense into them.
back-alley abortion clinics can be lucrative too.
a win for Skull & Bones, but of course that was certain from the beginning,
and a continuation of the "Plan for the new American Century", a.k.a "New World Order" or "Global American Leadership", conveniently renamed to "war on terror" after 9.11.
Isn't this the problem? Liberals (for whatever reason) that come from conservative environments concentrate in certain areas which has the effect of deluting their representation based on the electoral college system. Those that like the conservate environment move back to those areas, so you basically have a conservative minority dictating policy for a less conservative majority. Even though the electoral college was close, the number of states that went for Bush was way more than half. Those unoccopied states still get a minimum of 3 electors, which gives a small state voter more power than a large state dweller.
Most liberals are that aren't born in liberal areas are educated and like multicultural environments. They have to leave conservative areas (rural areas) to get jobs and culture (try finding a job that requires a graduate degree in a city where you can get Thai or Indian food in Montana). Very few are willing to sacrifice their quality of life to affect national politics by living in a sparce state.
As a side note, I just posted in my journal (see sig for link) about this topic... Please drop by and let me know what you think...
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
Let's all us Americans out here ask the question, "are these guys really the best we have to offer?" I don't think so. I think it is a shame that it takes 100's of millions to run for President. What are the actual chances that someone who really does care will ever get out in front of the american people? zero.
I realize that when you boil it down, this is what the founding fathers actually intended. I am not sure they could have imagined the skewed disparity between the "have" and "have nots" that we have in our country today.
I think it sucks that we are forced to vote based on defense and military action but that is the world we live in. All non-americans seem to think that we want to be shipping our military around the world. The US has such potential to do great things for everyone, it is just depressing we have to focus on defending ourselves.
I would have gladly voted for the Democratic candidate if I could have seen someone other than a wife trying to get her husband something he wanted. Bush himself is not the greatest President or candidate.
Bottom line, you have to have money to even THINK about being president. In the case of this year, it's just a lesser of two evils vote. Unfortunately, I voted based on whether the man could do whatever was necessary in case something terrible would happen and just didn't think JK could have done it.
-----
George Bush is a dick, and he fucked John Kerry, a pussy.
All of the assholes who voted for Bush just shat all over my country.
Granted, it might alienate some people, but while I would have liked Kerry to win, I am happy he conceded - just because I think it would have been wrong to have Kerry win the presidency with a minority in the popular vote - yes, Bush ruled with a minority, but two wrongs don't make a right.
For me, as a foreigner living outside the US, this will simply mean, that I'll stay out of the US for at least another legislative period - as long as those paranoid suckers are in office, I wouldn't even want to enter the US as a tourist.
The only thing I am concerned about right now, is what the new cabinet will look like. If Colin Powell really drops out of the cabinet (and isn't replaced by someone with an equal amount of internationally accepted integrity), the government will lose a lot of its standing to the outside world. I'd give more about what he said, than all the crap that Bush, Rice and especially Rumsfeld "emitted"...
At the beginning of his administration, President George W. Bush asserted that he was a unifier, not a divider.
I think that George Bush is one of the most influential politicians in history; he's been successful not only in polarizing America but also the whole world.
Never before has the rest of the world paid such close attention to the American presidential election.
--This SIG was sold and put on a bumper sticker.
I woke up this morning to see the election results. What I saw was Georges Shadow over the land. Then I realized it, Four more years of nuclear winter.
I was looking forward to the recount-induced riots and looting...
:(
I had my eye on this awesome 17" flatscreen display down at Staples
Is Toronto a nice place to live? I happen to be a man that likes men and Amerika is obviously not the right place for me.
4 More Years!
4 more years of lucrative no-bid contracts;
4 more years of underfunded, biased, racist, corrupt educational systems that reward nice suburban schools and gut already strained urban schools, to the benefit of Bush's friends who run testing and test preperation companies;
4 more years of stop-loss in the military;
4 more years of american AND iraqi casualties;
4 more years of job loss;
4 more years of a mounting federal defecit;
4 more years of a shrinking middle class, thanks to upper-bracket tax cuts;
4 more years of the axis of evil;
4 more years of imperiling the country by breeding thousands of people all over the globe who are convinced the only way they can survive is through our death;
4 more years of convincing the world that "we know best";
4 more years of the PATRIOT ACT and John Ashcroft;
4 more years of appointing ultra-conservative Supreme Court judges, who while decrying "activist judges", change the whole country into the Bible Belt and force their way into women's wombs by overturning Roe V. Wade;
4 less years of stem cell research that could revolutionize medicine, because it's immoral to use embryos, even as thousands of embryos are thrown away all over the country as we speak at In Vitro Fertilization clinics.
4 More Years!
I still don't get why liberal means pussy, yet conservative doesn't mean poorly educated white trash.
Well, if you look at demographics it seems Bush did better with people that earn 50,000+, and Kerry did better with people that earn less...
So how does your assumption hold true?
If the Democrats continue to ignore demographics and instead fundamentially believe misconceptions like the one you put forth then they will keep loosing.
Instead they should try and think about what led so many middle class, non white-trash people to vote for Bush and try to put forth a candidate that those people would vate to vote for, instead of a simple Anti-Bush.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
My Democratic uncle's poem to my dad, a Republican:
The election is over,
The results are now known,
The will of the people
has clearly been shown.
Let's forget the quarrels
and show by our deeds,
and give our new leader
the help that he needs.
We'll all work together,
May all bitterness pass,
I'll hug your elephant
and you'll kiss my ass.
I think the north americans are fine. How the people voted in Bush? I cant believe that. More 4 years becoming the world in war, repression, and trying to conquer the world. Are you blind americans? Your economy is worst in your history, wars, young people die to your dumb president. So sorry USA. But I think you deserve Bush.
Was Bush the Giant Douche Bag, or the Turd Sandwich?
Go Cows!
The problem with 3rd parties is this: They do not share the overlapping platforms equally with the other 2 major parties.
If you vote Republican, your goal is not just to get a Republican into office (unless you're an idiot), you're voting based on the platforms that you and Republicans stand for, and you want the Republican sides of those platforms to be acted upon.
If a given platform (such as privacy rights) was shared by both Libertarians and Democrats, and this platform thus had a majority of the mindshare, the platform would still lose because the votes would be split between the two parties and the OTHER party would win, along with its less popular take on the given platform.
So basically (and paradoxically), the LESS popular sides of platforms will have a high tendency to win as long as the more popular sides are split between 2 or more candidates. Thus, a 2-party system is the ideal equilibrium, whether you like it or not, because it gets more of the popular positions of platforms acted upon over time, and that's what I think the ultimate goal of all this election crap is. That's how society moves forward, as opposed to backward. And thus, most intelligent Democrats hate the presence of Nader, Badnarik, etc., not because they disagree with their views, but because their views tend to coincide more with the Democratic attitudes on things, and thus split the vote.
With the way Bush runs this country, I am predicting a civil war/revolution in the next 30-50 years. I'm just curious, who else is predicting this? And who will join the resistance/insergency when/if this does happen? I know I will be one of the first to take up arms. The government is out of control.
...Had this been an actual emergency, we would have fled in terror, and you would not have been informed.
Is it a coincidence that the electoral map's red areas are all "redneck" and "bible belt" states? Meanwhile the states with the most high tech sectors (ie: INTELLIGENCE) are blue?
I can't wait to see Forest, errrrr... I mean Edwards in '08. Not implying that he's stupid, because he wouldn't have made millions using junk science to take advantage of palsied children and their familes and raised medical costs for everyone in the country if he was stupid, but listening to him speak is going to get real old!!!
We are more than proud to welcome you to your new country, the true north strong and free. Please peoceed to the security check but as the new USA PATRIOT act requires for trans-border arrivals, we have to decline your identity to the US authorities. Since our new prime minister is a Bushy collaborator, be sure that our great social securities and freedom are bound to deplete as they did in the US. As your president is a liar and a cheat too, you won't feel too much difference. Hoping that you will enjoy your stay, and that Canada will be a good ground to really fight for your rights this time, as you should have done in the USA.
Gay people, womens tired of the religious grip on their woombs, african-americans and those in favour of a true separation of the church and state are more than welcome (sincerely).
- A Canadian
Watch more of our civil right disappear
Oh no! You mean there's only one left?
I knew things were bad, but wow!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
A: Because of my religion. He'll also do better on security.
Q: Where will this lead to based on these priorities?
A: A religous police state.
What's really depressing is that this is _exactly_ the same as Australia, except Australia was even more pronounced.
... what was his name again? ... Mark Latham was so wet and lacking in personality, spine, and credibility. Even I only voted for him (well, my preferences went to his party before Howard's party) because I felt it was critically important to get Howard out.
Howard won by a large margin. To a large extent, this was because
Latham ignored the economic issue, and Howard gutted him on it. Latham was focusing on real issues, though rather poorly, as Howard cut him to pieces with scaremongering. It works. Howard made it simple, black and white, and scary - so he won.
I fucking hate people.
Uh, hello. How was this modded anything but the flamebait expletive-laced troll that it is? A bunch of pissed off moderators today, maybe?
Have fun: Join D.N.A. (National Dyslexics Association)
Thank you Mr. Dibold, Thank you Mr. Rove, and thank you whomever it was that discreated the Americas [sic]public shcool [sic] and standeric [sic] testing.
On this aspicous day I would like also to spare a word for the Democrats who realized how much safer they'd be under my handlers benificent rule; and also to the cuban-americans in Florida who somehow managed to misconestimated [sic] my promise to oust Castro; and that word is "sucker" eh, I mean "thanks" suckers.
Now to the issues of poverty in America, I promise you, with all my heart, that those who do not receive the jail time they deserve will lead our efforts to _liberate_ the political issues and persons my handlers find to be expedient at any given time.
I promise you my full inattention [sic] span and that no poor child will be left behind in our effort to draft a new way of life for the people of the wolrd. Our leadership will burn brightly in the streets and bodies of our friends around the world and that No Nation Shall Rise Above My Vision for America.
====
Seriously, to the rest of the world... I am sorry that two-thirds of the population of my home country is too apathetic to vote, and that some sixty million of the people who can, are to afriad of "evil faggots sneaking into their institutions and destroying their children's chance to marry" (or whatever, it doesn't make sense from here either) or are so fearful or gullable that they beleive that Iraq attacked America.
Be warned, stupidity is catching.
Please expect either some festering environmental policy or a "friendly interventionalist action" to pour forth from our Country into yours any time.
For those who don't know, I have "good reason to beleive" that "unofficially" word has leaked down that America will begin Nuclear Testing (as in "boom! oh... pretty!") in the near future. Nothing has been said, mind you, but look how well Bush carried Los Alamos (and no, that isn't my only source for that, but it is just a rumor)...
Just consider, Bush cannot be "reelected" so he'll be a off his "good behavior" as a (classic) second-term president.
I'd ask if some nice Canadian computer company were looking for experienced programmers, but this isn't a problem that can be usefully fled, and besides, for all I know Bush may declare Canda a target for the next crusade. He clearly doesn't understand things like the descrimination of fact from desire, or the stupidity of pissing off a neighboring country. Fortunately Cuba is right next to Brother Jeb and Bush has already promised an attack there, so maybe Castro can solve the "Bush Dinasty" problem.
So no change in the foreign policy: No (enfranchised) Blood for (cheap) Oil; use the children of poor and "those godless sand-people" [but I dont mean you Bin Laden, you're a family friend] to keep it $52 (USD) per barrel.
Really Europe, Africa, and our "alies". Get a clue. You are in an unhealthy relationship. We get drunk on "family values", beat our [pick a word], belittle our children [US possessions] and have no respect for our selves beyond a post-adolecent fascination with our "prowess".
Why in the world would you think we mean it _this_ time when we say we won't hit? You loan us money, you let us into your house.
Stop being a bunch of enablers, can't you see we are sick and need help?
Sic Transit Gloria Mundi...
====
And it's not a crusade, it's a liberation of the holy land...
The right to life begins at conception and ends at birth...
Nuke a unborn gay babby whale for Jeasus.
Ok Daddy?
Amen.
Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
--"Code Complete" Microsoft Press
The real problem is that the Democrats are not a Liberal party. Take a look at this political spectrum.
IMHO, the Democratic party should be somewhere near today's Green Party, and the Green Party should be somewhere near my personal philosophy, which is way in the lower left corner.
It's also disturbing that the Republicrats are in the same quandrant as Hitler, but reassuring that the Greens are in the same quadrant as Gandhi and the Dalai Lama.
Spoon not. Fork, or fork not. There is no spoon.
The saddest thing about Bush winning... is that the Redskins footbal game myth has been debunked
Open Source Java Web Forum with LDAP authentication
True. Very True. THIS IS Democracy in action. I heard a saying somewhere: People's will is God's will.
I bow once again to democracy and the power of people...
"Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
"A second question is who will run in 2008 for the republicans? It ain't gonna be Cheney, that's for sure. I wouldn't put it past them to try to run Bush again, or another Bush. McCain is out. They could butcher the Constitution and all common sense and then try to run Schwartzenegger, who at least seems to be moderate in CA."
What a crazy statement. First, G. W. Bush will not attempt to run again. His brother, Jeb, currently has no plans.
As for Schwartzengger, sounds a lot like "demolition man", doesn't it?
At ~11AM EST, November 3, 2004, the /. effect slashdotted Slashdot.org.
"We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." --The American President (20.1.2009)
According to Aljazerra, Al Qaeda/Bin Ladin wanted Bush. They want desperately to destroy our businesses by getting other nations to quit trading with us, have us bankrupt ourselves and get us to strip our citizens of our rights.
So far, they are winning that in a BIG way.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
The American voters, like the proverbial battered wife have decided to stand by their man...
"He took our jobs away and gave us lower paying ones in exchange. He sent our kids to die in a senseless war based on a lie. He's maxed-out the credit card. He's trashing the environment and the constitution. Our friends are wondering what's happened to us....
But he's our president and we just love how he doesn't change his mind!"
Yes, it's only in America, with all that "fuzzy math" being argued about...
On the other hand, rather than running away to Canada (my first thought...) this has actually caused me to have real thoughts about becoming active in politics, at least at the local level. I'm no longer content to let others make a mess of things; I want to do my share. Then at least I can blame myself.
#include "standard_disclaimer.h"
Actually, the U.S.A. isn't a democracy. It's a Federalist Republic. The popular vote was never intended to elect the President. In fact, the framers of the Constitution designed it such that the popular vote wouldn't elect the President. We are a representative democracy where what we're actually voting for on Nov. 2 is memebers of the Electoral College who will, in theory, vote for the candidate that we put down on our ballots. Technically they are not bound to vote either way, but that's just the way the system has developed.
;-)
Those crazy guys back in the day didn't trust in the transient will of the populous or "tyranny of the majority." Do you?
-------------------------------------------
I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells.
-- Dr. Seuss
Well, the view from here in the UK is this.
Kerry vs Bush, or anyone else, is just a competition between two talking heads, they don't matter.
Let's be honest, Bush as a human being is as thick as shit, he couldn't run a branch of blockbuster, much less a country.
So, despite the fact that American elections are esentially personality contest in the style of a television pop star junk thing, what you actually get is not just the puppet, but the puppeteers.
Bush getting re-elected is essentially a big hearty slap on the back and multi-million dollar tax free bonus to the Straussian Neo-Con puppeteers.
Expect them to see this as carte blanche.
Everyone one else on the planet OUTSIDE the USA is now expecting these bastards to start pushing for...
a/ military intervention in Iran
b/ continued support for Isreal in terrorising Palestine and it's other neighbours.
c/ Military intervention in equatorial Africa (oil again, surprise surprise)
d/ possible military intervention in North Korea
The American people have managed to effectively declare christian and economic (oil and military might inc nuclear capability) jihad on the rest of the planet.
If any of you think this is going to make life within the borders of the United States SAFER then you're out of your fucking gourds.
I fully expect a "sum of all fears" scenario and deployment of biologically engineered pesticides in your belts against your wheat and corn growers within the next couple of years.
As it stands today my fee for any job that involved working in the USA or indeed anywhere else for an American company would be US$ 100,000 up front for every flight and US $50,000 per week to be within any major US city and US$ 10,000 per week to work for any american company, IN ADDITION to any salary and benefits offered as standard.
http://slashdot.org/~GuyFawkes/journal
my friend who's living in florida told me yesterday there were about 50,000 votes missing in Florida, a state which is governed by another Bushling..
Ohio counts is still not done and so are other states' provisional votes..
I read a comment here that says conceding doesnt necessarily means giving up, I hope that's the case. I strongly support Kerry but if he gives up that fast, I wouldnt want him to win either..
In a very likely case Bush officially wins this circus act, I can already see what will happen:
-Bush's American arrogance will show even more and eventually tick, not just annoy, the rest of the world
-FOUR MORE YEARS of job loss, troops sent out to die, and other crap that has been happening..
on a side note, shouldnt what Bush was campaigning about have been done at the end of his first term? And people just buy into what he's saying because they "CONNECT" with his personality..
*sigh*
To all who said Kerry would win because of a football game, I laugh at you.
/. much less read my post...but still if you ever do Moore...I LAUGH AT YOU!!! BWWAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!)
To all who said Kerry would win because the planets aligned, I laugh harder at you.
Michael Moore, the American people are not as stupid as you think. Just cause you got the gulible French to believe your lies, doesnt mean America will....
(granted, I am sure that as un-intelligent as Moore is, he probably never visits
So then, will you come back with a message stating how wrong you were when there is NO draft (scare tactic by Democrats), the economy continues upward, Iraq stabilizes in a few years and things are generally looking up?
That's exactly what Democrats are afraid of. We'll see who is right in four years.
In the meantime don't let your bitterness sap your health. Move out of the country to somewhere else you think is so much better.
I've got several military sources, that will go unidentified, whom I attend college with. If you don't think a draft is coming, think again. Look for a draft in March-May of 2005. Here is the latest ruleset for us college students. http://www.sss.gov/viet.htm "Under the current draft law, a college student can have his induction postponed only until the end of the current semester. A senior can be postponed until the end of the academic year."
Help me, help you. - Jerry McGuire
Hold up now. The statement that 49% of Americans who voted hate W is a bit much.
Or is it?
Me, I voted Democrat in '92, '96 and '00. But the fucking virulent hate without much rational thought or reason is why I voted Republican this year.
I couldn't take the nonsense...the hate that was coming from some Liberals.
Yesterday we had a conversation in a meeting and someone admitted to voting Bush, a lady went off, yelling Someone looked over in horror and yelled "how could you? He has raped and murdered millions in Iraq!"
I said, "George W. Bush personally has raped and murdered people in Iraq?"
"Yes he has!"
"Personally? Like he went over and raped and murdered people?"
"Yes he has! Millions!"
Back to the word "hate", do you really think that every single person who voted for Kerry "hate" George W. Bush? I doubt it.
"Hate is the generic word, and implies that one is inflamed with extreme dislike. We abhor what is deeply repugnant to our sensibilities or feelings. We detest what contradicts so utterly our principles and moral sentiments that we feel bound to lift up our voice against it. What we abominate does equal violence to our moral and religious sentiments. What we loathe is offensive to our own nature, and excites unmingled disgust."
Because I'm still asking myself why the Republicans couldn't come up with a better candidate than Bush.
The reason why Democrats couldn't come up with a better candidate is because: (pick one or more)
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
I'm all out of hope. I'm all out of energy. I'm all out of tears. The only thing I have left to me is rage.
If you voted for GWB, I vow to hold you personally responsible if/when my Marine brother is killed in Iraq/Iran/Afghanistan/Syria/North Korea. I will visit my righteous anger upon you. I will have my revenge. Ponder that as you return to your narrow lives of moral complacency.
For the rest of you who voted for Kerry or some progressive third party, we need to organize NOW! Our best bet is to move to the solidly blue upper midwest and secede from the union taking most of North America's supply of fresh water with us.
Yes, the above is slightly facetious, and meant to be taken not entirely seriously.
Except the part about the rage. And the true root of that rage is that last night I witnessed the death of this country. America will never recover, and it stands a good chance of taking the rest of the world down with it. As a patriot, I find that unthinkable. As a citizen, I find it untenable. As a human being and a woman, I see it as a threat to my very existence.
As if that's not what Michael Moore, George Soros, the Hollywood l33ts, etc haven't been doing??? One thing this election proves is that the drone of the "poor, poor party of the peepul" can come up with the dough when they want to.
insightful. even if you disagree, this is a strong point that is rarely brought up on slashdot.
so, what about us? How many "electoral" votes do we count for? Or is it just a fun exercise to make us *think* we count for anything?
I agree with everything you have in the parent except for your last sentence. Democracy is exactly about majority rule; what you have described (reaching a compromise that maximizes societal welfare) is a Republic, which the United States is supposed to be according to our Constitution.
> Kerry got more votes (55 million) than any other president in history too.
Ahh! Except for one very recent president.
While I am not super pleased the GW won, I am more concerned that the republican extended their majority in the house of representitives.
Checks and balences was our only hope if this where to happen, and it looks like we are going to get GW's ( Halibarten (SP?)) agenda without much resistance.
I think having a party dominate both the Executive and Legislative branches of government ( REGARDLESS ) of party is an inherantly dangerous thing ( although given the "hawkish" nature of the current administration it may be more so in this instance ).
Question:
*When are the British elections?
*What are the chances of a Anti-US government(PM ) getting elected?
*What would be the consequences of the first REALLY anti us gov. in brit. in the last century?
*Have the bonds from Churchill to Roosevelt been completely undone?
*Will these bring greater unitiy to the EU? At the US's expense?
*What is the average wing velocity of an unladed swallow?
a man, a plan, a canal, panama
Your boss' candidate just won the election and you need to get those productivity numbers up.
It was a few Democrats wanting to bring back the Draft. No Republicans.
The Draft will not be coming back because Bush is re-elected.
Song on the End of the World
On the day the world ends
A bee circles a clover,
A Fisherman mends a glimmering net.
Happy porpoises jump in the sea,
By the rainspout young sparrows are playing
And the snake is gold-skinned as it it should always be.
On the day the world ends
Women walk through fields under their umbrellas
A drunkard grows sleepy at the edge of a lawn,
Vegetable peddlers shout in the street
And a yellow-sailed boat comes nearer the island,
The voice of a violin lasts in the air
And leads into a starry night.
And those who expected lightning and thunder
Are disappointed.
And those who expected signs and archangels' trumps
Do not believe it is happening now.
As long as the sun and the moon are above,
As long as the bumblebee visits a rose
As long as rosy infants are born
No one believes it is happening now.
Only a white-haired old man, who would be a prophet,
Yet is not a prophet, for he's much too busy,
Repeats while he binds his tomatoes:
No other end of the world there will be,
No other end of the world there will be.
The thing to watch for 2008 is positioning within the Bush administration. Either they will get an 'heir apparent' into some visibal and powerful position within a year, or they know that they won't want to be in power between 2008 and 2012, as in the deficits finally driving the US Government into default in that timeframe.
Personally, I expect Cheney to resign in the next year, "for health reasons," and to see the new Republican Choice move in as Vice President. Either that, or some other properly-aged and electable (For instance, Hasturt probably isn't.) Republican put into a prominence.
If that doesn't happen, I wouldn't touch the Office with a 10 foot pole. (Actually, I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole, anyway.) Expect disaster.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I think we just found our new head of the DNC!
Spoon not. Fork, or fork not. There is no spoon.
My advice to the Democrats:
Let the Republicans do whatever they want. Don't fight them on any issue. Let them pass any legislation they want, appoint any judges they want, spend any money they want, cut any taxes they want. Let them have free reign of the government. They want a chance to prove their system works? Give it to them. In fact, whenever they ask you to support them on an issue, go willingly, go gladly and give them everything they want.
In 4, 8 or 12 years, let's see how things turn out. If it's really that bad, then the Democrats will easily be able to regain control of everything. If things are going well, then we'll know for certain that the conservative agenda works and we will have a clear mandate for the future.
It's time for the democrats to fall back and watch for a while. It may be a lot to suffer, but I think it's the only way for us to get past the divisiveness. If the Democrats continue to fight the Republicans, they will continue to get blamed for the lack of progress in this country and continue to be labeled as whiners and obstructionists. By not making challenges, then they can't be blamed for mistakes, and if there are costly mistakes, it will be easy to turn the country in a different direction and start again. For the liberal America, this is your trial by fire.
+1 Insightful, -1 Troll. What can I say, I'm an Insightful Troll.
We're sorry.
OK, well fine, mod the hell out of me. But, I for one am not a bit sorry, in fact, I think the world should be sorry to the USA. For not giving anything more than lip service about our need to secure our liberties in the aftermath of real harm, and turning our legitimate concerns into stories about greed, oil, and personal vandetta on Saddam and accusing us of being the war mongers while blowing off the actions of 100s other countries that are 10x more hostile and 100's of times less sincere.
I'd love to dote on the problems of the USA too, but the reality is that many a arrogant foriegn attitude sorta forced my hand and I immagine those of many other Americans too.
I wander if the real problem is that most the europeans and intellectuals in the world who give a shit about freedoms and liberty enough to struggle for them moved to the USA a long time ago. I also think, many US residents are old enough to renember the cold war, where we were dumped on just as badly, if not worse, yet we were so right in so many ways inspite of all the bullshit. It was only in the aftermath that everybody shut up.
It seems to me that some people just can't face that the USA isn't more wealthy because we're more greedy - we are more wealthy because on average we really do have more freedoms. And others really are just plain more envious and jealous even if they refuse to call it that.
Ahhhhhhhhrrrrrrrrraaaaaaggggggg!!!!!!
/me styarts the drinking early
They already know that their empire depends on petrol and weapons. So they vote accordingly.
They feel bad, so there's a lot of preachers telling them that they are behaving right by voting someone who finances them.
They just turn their backs to the world, ride their car with cheap gas to the next McDonalds and eat a supersized menu (a typical reaction to feeling guilty).
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth!"
I was going to write an entry containing 5000 times the word shit (Spider Jerusalem I miss you) but the system won't let me.
(Your comment violated the "postercomment" compression filter. Try less whitespace and/or less repetition. Comment aborted.)
Looks like my article got a D note
It's a well-documented fact the Diebold CEO promised to deliver Ohio to the President:
. ht m
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0828-08
That fact that he kept his promise in this matter shouldn't be newsworthy; I'm surprised they even bothered keeping the polls open last night.
Tannenbaum is reporting that the exit polls and the actual vote results are quite different there, as well. Big surprise. Of course, there is no proof that the fix was in, because Diebold machines don't leave a paper trail.
Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
I think that what would be wrong would be to once again tie the fate of the electoral process and the leadership of the most powerful nation in the world to a handful of voters who were too careless/stupid/corrupt to be bothered to register properly, if at all, or too careless/stupid/corrupt to be bothered to find their proper polling place.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A119 71-2004Jun3.html
In his most extensive remarks on the future of the American military, Sen. John F. Kerry said here Thursday that he would expand the active-duty Army by 40,000 soldiers, including a doubling of U.S. Special Forces...
Personally, I feel that a Draft is highly unlikely.
However, with Kerry saying he wanted 40,000 MORE troops, he was in no place to suggest that if Bush would HAVE to implement a draft, that Kerry would NOT have to add 40000 troops.
---"What did I say that sounded like 'Tell me about your day?'"---
Can we have a revote? Maybe everyone who voted Bush beause they just figured he'd win anyway, and all the people who didn't get off their asses and vote will vote.
This really couldn't have been possible without Diebold!
THANK YOU ELECTRONIC VOTERS!
Short list I've seen for '08 Republican is...
Frist, McCain, Giuliani, Hagel, Pataki.
Maybe Sanford of South Carolina or Pawlenty of Minnesota.
I think a Giuliani/Rice ticket would be unstoppable.
Unfortunately, the entities with the money want to keep their money.
Tip: If your plan requires people to "not want to keep their money", it's probably not going to work.
"Education" is the word for what you think must be done. And I'll agree, there seems to be an awful lack of it.
I for one welcome our new puppet emperor.
Sorry, it seemd obligatory.
Now what am I going to do for the next two weeks? I took all this time off and was counting on being able to watch all the recounts and lawsuits go on. Damnit Kerry, why do you have to be such a wuss.
IBM has been defeated by SCO in court, Darl McBride appointed CEO of IBM.
Linus Torvalds has just accepted the position of CTO for Microsoft.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
For those of you who are new voters, we have one of these election things ever year.
:)
I also hope you realize that in Ohio, we choose people for jury duity by looking at the ranks of registered voters.
Should we start brushing up on our Mandarin?
Comparing it to Windows will be a moot point, since El Dorado is going to have a 40% larger code base than XP.
You took a quote out of context.
What I actually said was:
If anyone really wanted to vote for a third party but instead voted for Kerry
People that really wanted Kerry and voted for him did NOT waste a vote. People that really wanted Nader or Badnarik but voted for Kerry DID waste a vote. The first way of course is that they did not give Kerry a victory anyway. But the far worse thing is that the very low vote count for the third parties hurts them in future elections. So by turning away from the candidate you really wanted you have have them more then you helped anyone else.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I wouldn't give the right-wing-nut-festering-thugs the satisfaction! I'm sticking around *and* getting more involved! I was motivated a few months back by a bumper sticker reading, "United We Recline" to get off my whiny butt and start trying to make a difference rather than just bitching and moaning and waiting for someone to *do something.* Now: get off *your* whiny posterior cushioning devices and put a bit of effort into the next 4 years so that we don't have to face this crap again. We'll have a lot of ground to make up by then, as if the $trillions aren't enough...
-Honestly, stupidity should be painful.
But I'm guessing me might disagree on what to do now. My idea was to buy time on a little light bulb AM station somewhere and air the voice of the independent radio show. Spend the next four years hacking everything the Republicans do, spouting conspiracy theories, stating absolute garbage as established fact and screening calls to make it sound like everyone agrees with me. Pretend to be an overall Bush supporter, then mention every piece of dirt that has plausible deniability.
I'd spend the next four years hacking back at them in the media like they did for eight years of Clinton's term.
Politics is a dirty game and it's time to start fighting dirty.
I'm guessing that may not be what you have in mind, but we've got nothing to lose going negative at this point. Light the flame throwers! You want division, we'll give you division and angry, unrelenting defensiveness until you're stuffed with it. We'll take our cues from Karl Rove's playbook and make winning a living hell.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
We have no major news media outlet that is free from the spin masters of the administration. How can anyone expect an uninformed electorate to actually make an intelligent choice in the voting booth if they are so woefully under informed by those who's mission it is to inform? Forget ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN AND Fox. I will no longer watch ANY news until they learn how to ask the really tough questions and hold our elected officials accountable for their actions. More War Bigger Deficits less health care more tax breaks for the rich and the draft is really just around the corner, regardless of what they all said to get elected. Unless your white, straight, and a christian, your days are numbered in America. I've never been an "US" in my life... always a "Them", so I'm expecting only the absolute WORSE over the next four years.
Don't you really mean, "Our way or Guantanamo Bay!"
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
So now that he's got an honest to goodness "mandate"...
What are the chances he's even going to try to be a uniter?
INsigNIFICANT
Re: Its that it is official: You can lie, mislead, and divide, and sucessfully win an election.
Oh, well, of course, everything looks bad if you remember it! -Homer
It takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen. -Homer
The results of this election reveal that most Americans still understand the truth about the state of the world today, despite what the mass media would like them to think. If the remainder of the populace (i.e. the Democrats) would stop and think about the reality of the situation, then all of the hysterical reactions to the outcome of this election could come to a stop.
Most Americans see the truth about the "War On Terror": coalition forces gave al-Qaeda the thrashing of their lives in Afghanistan -- and in only about 30 days, not the 10 year protracted USSR-style Afghanistan fiasco that some had predicted. Al-Qaeda still remains severely crippled from this shellacking in 2001.
Most Americans see the truth about the situation in Iraq: coalition forces continue to be overwhelmingly successful and are achieving their objectives at a steady pace, with unprecedentedly low casualties. To have achieved such a high level of success, with casualties in the low 1,000's is simply amazing. The truth is that in 2003 no one, not Republican or Democrat, could have hoped for such a positive outcome.
Most Americans see the truth about the economy at home: unemployment is now lower than it ever was under the Clinton administration. Homeownership is now at an all-time high. The country has now seen a net gain in jobs. The previous recession and loss of jobs began under the Clinton administration, not under the Bush administration. The Bush administration's economic policies successfully reversed the economic slide that the Clinton administration left behind, despite the difficulties imposed by the 9/11 attacks. This too is unprecedted and something for all Americans to be proud of.
I don't understand the media's motivation for attempting to decieve the American population with regard to these three major issues, but it is refreshing to see that the majority of American's are not buying into it.
The Republicans are doing a commendable job steering this country down the right path, and, with the outcome of this election, it is now apparent that most Americans recognize this fact. As soon as Iraq is set completely free and begins to rebuild and prosper, the rest of the world will see just how wrong they were about the Bush Administration.
God bless America!
Despite what EULAs say, most software is sold, not licensed.
Conservatives argue they are better than the counterpart liberals. Liberals argue they are better than the counterpart conservatives. Each side bickers with name calling and it becomes split almost in half on which side people choose. When your a libertarian your counter part is authoritarian dictatorship.
Welcome, would you like some pretzel to choke on?
the Democrats got it wrong they failed to get the minority Church goiing vote .The blacks and Hispanics are very religous and voted regarding issues relating to gay marrige,a womans right to choose and stem cell research so they lost the black vote for one .Also the democrats lost the vote on Terrorism becuse Jimmy Jim bob in the midwest thinks that his rural town is going to be protected by terrorists becuse Bush is in power. Jimmy dosnt realise its a false sense of security the terroists dont care who the president is they are agaist american policy as a whole and American economic power and policy .Jimmy should be more scared of his local Right Wing Millita blowing somthing up in the midwest than the terrorists from the middle east .
See: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=127860&cid=10
I made the following prediction:
Much like the 'curse' was lifted from the RedSox, this year the redskins presidential election parallel will be broken.
So what will be the next Redskin presidential parallel... The Redskins will predict the presidential election except if the redsox win?
Due to the rampant voter fraud (Disenfranchised? Try stupid) in 2000 in Florida and other states many people such as myself decided to vote for the first time to ensure our interests were represented and not swamped by fraudulent votes. There were enough first time American voters this time to trump all the voter bussing, non citizen voting, and double voting.
So about the Redskins...
...or he might recognize that he'd just be going to state #51, and so he's probably contemplating whether suicide by hanging or jumping from a tall building would be a better method of suicide.
For a minute there I was afraid all the political drama queens were going to be out of a job for the next four years...
As a European, I welcome a Bush win. It will bring about, more than any other factor, an even tighter European integration, which means more euros for me.
:E
Well, the way I see it another fours years of Republican rule will probobly devestate the US, financially and socially, to such an extent that the republican party will be unelectable for years to come.
It's either that or even more Americans becoming intolerent, religious, tax free and/or just plain rude. Not that the French are more tactful mind.
"America Rules! Except the south." - Peter Griffin
May the Maths Be with you!
The GOP increased their majority in both houses, and Bush now has >50% of the popular vote. He will, of course, read this as a huge endorsement of his agenda---and now that he doesn't have a future election hanging over him, he's pretty much got nothing to lose for the next four years.
Anyone want to guess the odds of Roe v. Wade surviving this administration?
In the rest of the world we don't view the USA as solely one man, we know that there are about 300M of different people there. We also sorta worked out that Bush jr is not Bush sr and that G.W. Bush is more or less advised by neo-conservatives like Wolfowitz who do not have the wide scope view of people like H. Kissinger.
In other words, we don't blame America as if it was one island with one inhabitant. We just can't believe the foreign policy of one man and his rabid advisers who plow the world on the hunt for just an other man who the wanted ennemy. G.W. Bush doesn't seem to be consistent in more than some of his speeches, it's sort of clear that he is not the one wearing the pants in his team. At least that is how he is portrayed here in Europe.
So are we to take that onto the next american tourist that comes by to ask for directions? Not at all, unless you want her/him to go back home and vote even more extreme-Right next time, thinking foreigners are all beyond hope.
My strategy is the same one I have seem when I used to live in the US. Be nice, be kind... you always surprise people that way. I have always been impressed by how civil, nice and kind your Joe American is as compared to us and our attitude. So I'm not going to judge a whole people because of one opportunist in the Washington D.C. beltway. I lived there for years, it's full of other people like him.
Try reading the Constitution, bit-breath.
The loser calling the winner and "conceding" is a political ritual. It has absolutely nothing to do with who gets elected president.
Now that Kerry has lost, will he be a good patriot and tell Bush what his detailed solution for IRAQ is? After all it would be for the good of the country.
Look, I just made you read my signature.
Congrats, Bush supporters. You side won, and won relatively definitively compared with 2000. You also picked up some house seats and a Senate seat (two if you count Zell Miller as a Dem). It's your day, and despite my personal views I honestly hope that the US electorate made the right decision.
To my fellow dems, well, here we are. Take a couple of days to lick your wounds and feel shitty -- it's always tough to lose, especially when it's a close one. But no matter what, and especially no matter how much crap you take in the next couple of days, don't lose faith. There are two things I've learned about politics: (a) there's always another election and (b) things are never as bad as they seem.
In retrospect, I believe it was to our detriment that we didn't lose the popular vote in 2000 because it gave us and excuse to not stop, admit defeat and regroup -- instead, we figured we could just steamroll to the next election and win. Well, now we know better.
Back in 1992, the GOP suffered the same sort of defeat we're facing now (actually, a worse defeat). They did the right thing with it, though, and in '94 they came back and were able to be highly successful by presenting a new look and new promise.
I know. I was a Republican back then. I was at a victory party for a GOP house member named Scott Klug whose campaign I'd worked on when the wind shifted. You could *feel* it happening -- it was the dawn of a new day for a party that had strayed away from its roots during Bush I.
Well folks, this is our 1992. Even now, the GOP is drifting away from its core ideas of fiscal responsibility and keeping its nose out of people's business. It's our opportunity to retake the soul of our party and demand a new look and better people, and they're out there right now -- Russ Feingold in Wisconsin, Barak Obama in Illinois and dozens of other good Americans around the country ready to be the new face of our party. It'll happen, but it can't happen without our determination and our hard work.
I won't give up, and neither should you. At the risk of sounding cheesy, we'll pull this off for the same reason the GOP did a decade ago because of a fundemental commonality we share with them: We're Americans. We don't give up, we don't quit, we don't go quietly.
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
... you got it. It WILL bite you in the ass, at least none of this lunacy can be blamed on the Dems or other non Republicans. Bush will carry on as though he got a great mandate, General Shinshecki's advice will be finally be taken, since the military seems to be the only growth market for jobs. OSHA and EPA will be functionally euthanized, why should our ordinary workers and citizens be safer than our soldiers? I used to argue against the proposition American population is terminally stupid, I won't contest that opinion from now on
I used a Diebold electronic voting machine yesterday, as I'm sure many of you did. With all of the /. stories about the problems with these machines I would not have been too surprised if something crazy happened, like Mickey Mouse winning the election. At the moment though it doesn't look like any serious hacking of these machines occurred. I do kind of wonder if someone snuck in a couple votes for either of the primary presidential candidates though. What do you think? :-)
Are you so blinded by hatred at the results that you cannot read?
would a vate for Nader or Badnarik really have been wasted given that Kerry did not win anyway?
Soooo, suddenly Kerry really didn't want to win anyway, eh? Bush won only because Kerry "gave up", eh?
Where did I say Kerry did not WANT to win? All I said is that he DIDN'T win - which Kerry himself said! I would say he's probably right looking at the returns from Ohio and factoring in the probabilties around what the uncounted votes would be like (are ALL of them going to be fore Kerry? Get real).
Obviously Kerry wanted to win. But he is as smart as people give him credit for and can see the probably of winning at this point, and he had the good grace to not drag the country through the mud for ages. For that he deserves a lot of credit, just like Gore deserves credit for ending the fight when he did.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
eom
Your votes count in the US State that you registered in.
But somehow, I doubt you are American. Could you really be that ignorant?
94% of Repubs and 21% of Dems voted to renew the Patriot Act
Technically you're wrong. America is not a nation of idiots, it is a nation of Morons. A nation of idiots would have voted for Kerry.
-- A disgruntled Libertarian
Ok, still waiting for an answer on this. I don't know anyone who knows the answer to this:
Is Kerry's concession legally binding? Or could he still be elected on the rare event that the votes in Ohio come out ahead?
Spoon not. Fork, or fork not. There is no spoon.
...they want their statue back.
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
How long until an amendment removing the term limit for president is floated?
a man, a plan, a canal, panama
Oh, let's see... just go back nearly 45 YEARS!!
Alot of things have changed since then. West Virginia was the Ohio/Florida in those days and Kennedy had to promise the state a new interstate (I-79) and countless things to the United Mine Workers.
And I won't even go into the crooked shit he pulled.
We have to find a way to dumb ourselves down into simple ideology. Easy digestible soundbites. It sounds ridiculous but I see no other way -- 1992 was "The Economy, Stupid", nothing else has worked. People don't want to think about problems, they want to eat McD's and watch Joey.
And the Republicans hope you keep thinking this way, because it shows that you really don't understand why John Kerry lost this election.
You are so fixated on the presidential race that you are losing track of the fact that Republicans made significant gains in the Senate and House of Representatives as well. Tom Daschle lost. He was targeted, and his constituents booted him out. That's his reward for 4 years of obstructionism. Why?
You are so fixated on the presidential race you are ignoring that in every one of 11 states where there was a ballot initiative prohibiting gay marriage, it passed, in many cases by overwhelming majorities. Why?
Why don't people like you get it?
The Democratic party doesn't need to "dumb down". You can drop your geek pomposity. Your analysis indicates that you aren't any more "clueful" than the people who voted for someone other than Sen. Kerry.
There was a huge voter turnout. The media focus on the Democrat 527s missed the point that huge numbers of evangelicals and blue-collar people turned out to vote. They didn't always vote Republican, but many of them did. What you should be asking is, why?
Check those ballot initiatives. Look at the overall picture, and it becomes clear.
People didn't vote for George Bush because of his handling of the economy. They didn't vote for him solely because of war rhetoric.
They voted for him also because they didn't want a social liberal who has consistently voted for gun control, or who avoided a vote on an amendment to the consitution on gay marriage, to be president. They didn't vote for Sen. Kerry because he was a social liberal. They didn't vote for Sen. Kerry because Michael Moore was for him. They didn't vote for Sen. Kerry because they didn't like his behavior in the Vietnam era. They didn't like him because he was all-too-obviously the candidate of foreign powers.
If there was a "Dukakis in a tank" moment in this election, it was when John Kerry put on brand-new camos and went goose-hunting after the NRA came out for Bush. Many Kerry supporters missed the significance of this. The Kerry campaign people knew that the NRA had just split the union vote.
If the Democrats want to be successful again, they certainly can be. They could trounce the Republicans. But to do so, they would have to make changes that I suspect wouldn't make you very happy.
A Democrat who is opposed to homosexual marriage, who supports gun rights, who is socially conservative, can win. A Democrat who steps away from NAFTA and the WTO (unlike John Kerry or Bill Clinton), can win.
In other words, an old-fashioned Democrat who is socially conservative, mildly protectionist, and who supports a modest social safety net that won't break the bank but provides assurance of real bread n' butter security with regards to health care, can win, would win, and would do so handily. A Democrat who isn't afraid to knock heads overseas, and doesn't act like he cares more about whether the French like him than whether he is representing American interests, can win.
I doubt you would support such a person. You would much rather spit invective and pretend that everyone who thinks differently than you do is more stupid than you. Maybe you would vote for Nader or vote Green before you would vote for the kind of Democrat I'm talking about.
But if the Democrats as a party want to win, they need more Sen. Millers, not more Sen. Kerrys, running for national office.
I hope for the world it doesn't do anything to piss us off even more.
For the last few years, all i've been hearing in europe over here from the U.S. Leaders was following this theme:
GI: "There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars."
GOE: "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
If you want to know who wrote this, look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Goering and tell it's not happening again. Please!
LLAP & LG
Rene
Look, this thing is totally safe! Built it myself, you know. You just press that button like this and then turn that lev
Say something REALLY starts going wrong, such that a majority of Americans wake up and smell the coffee... is there a provision in your governing system for a non-confidence vote, or otherwise some means by which to force a new president or an immediate election?
-b
myselfmusic
For the first time in history bush was elected fairly by the people!
Do me a favor and move to Iran, we have a present for you soon.
If I told you that was last year, would you know what I meant?
Today I hate you!
Americans you suck. You are nothing more than a bunch of supid bastards who just re-elected one of the most stupid of presidents in your fucking history. I hate you! Home come you are so fucking stupid to realize that invading iraq like you did is asking for more 9/11s!!!
And no, I do not think you were fooled (like the poor Michael Moore tells you in his movie), I think you are too fucking stupid to care to think about the concequencies of what your leader is doing in your name.
Well I'm pissed off expecially because this probably means First Minister Berlusconi is likely to be re-elected here in italy to, in a couple of years.
By the same logic 4.5 Million Bush voters were "not heard" in California, for instance.
However, It would seem to be more fair, and closer to direct popular vote, if all the states had proportional allotment of their electoral votes. (I think a couple do.) Under this scheme the Bush win would probably have been about the same, but with fewer complaints.
I suspect you can use Congress (including the Senate) as a pretty good proxy for what the proportional vote allocations would be, and the Bush/Kerry ratio would be pretty close to 285/245 (with a few of the 535 missing - independents and too close to call) - surprisingly like what the electoral vote will probably look like.
I think far fewer electors from the "red" states would go to Kerry than electors from the "blue" states would go for Bush. A quick look at just CA,OR,WA, NY, and PA show that about 54 of those 125 electoral votes would go to Bush.
At the end of the day, I suspect the entrenched two-party system likes things just the way they are.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
"RE: you being gormless, easily duped intellectual dungheaps"
//voted Badnarik, and wasn't really even happy with him
While the rest of your post is quite true... that the responsibility of whatever comes of the Bush administration in the next four years rests with those voters who kept Bush in office, that starting line really irks me. And no, I didn't vote for Bush.
One thing that really bothers me about elections is when one side ridicules the other side's intellectual capacity - in essence, "you don't agree with me, therefore you must be stupid." This is not arguing the issues on their own merits; rather, it is an ad hominim attack. I thought we were all sick of "dirty politics" like this... I guess not.
Get any group of intelligent people together to discuss an issue and you will find that while you may get "consensus" you will almost never get unanimity. Have you stopped to consider that the reason people disagree with you might not be because they're stupid and you're smart, but because they are smarter then you? Or perhaps because they are in possession of more facts than you are and are therefore better-equipped to make a decision?
Of course you haven't. After all, each of us has the intellectual snobbery to believe that we are always the smartest and best-qualified to make decisions... and of course we'll refuse to admit even the possibility that we could be wrong (interesting to hear this from an obvious Kerry supporter when in my estimation, Bush has been the one with problems accepting that another way of looking at the world might even exist).
Furthermore, it's pretty doggone unlikely that any party - even one of the "non-majors" - mirrors your ideology exactly. And unlike the major parties would like us to believe, issues are seldom black and white (though there are no shortage of elegant, simple, and completely wrong solutions they propose). Life and reality is nuanced, with billions of shades of gray and (more importantly), swirls and eddys of color that make walking in black or white all but impossible.
I can't find a link now, but I remember noting something interesting in the exit polls last night... they broke down voting tendencies by education, and as many will probably expect, those with less than a high school education voted overwhelmingly for Bush.
As education increased the percentage voting for Bush decreased... until you hit "post-graduate work" and degrees... while people with a Bachelor's degree had the smallest percentage of Bush voters, people with Master's or Doctorate degrees had an even higher percentage of Bush voters than the "did not finish high school" crowd! I thought that was an interesting trend... that the *most* educated voters actually favored Bush over Kerry. Does this shatter your assumption that "the dumber you are, the more likely you are to vote Bush?" (Leaving aside the obvious point that education != intelligence) Is it an anomolay? Just food for thought.
Be upset with the way the country is heading if you must (I am), but calling into question the intellectual capacity of those who don't agree with you solely BECAUSE they don't agree with you makes you look pretty non-credible to me.
Okay Taco, you had your fun and for a few weeks managed to pretend to run a web site that "matters".
/. go back to being a good technical news site and leave the political commentary for web sites that have an audience with political knowledge and insight?
Now will you shut down the politics section and let
There's a big percentage of us that are sure Bush is fucking up this country, and that those 58 millions that voted for him are just morons. But they happen to have the right to vote and have elected the idiot again and we have to live with that. If you raise against them they would do the same if your smarty pants candidate wins, and the chaos perpetuates itself. now, if you don't believe in the system, why did you vote in the first place?
Carlos J. Hernandez
Bush and religion...
I need not say any more...
N.
"Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence." - Charles de Gaulle
5) No (known) terrorist activity in the States as was previously feared to happen close to or on election day.
Trolls lurk everywhere. Mod them down.
Why did Kerry lose? Why did Democratic pary lose more of its share in the senate?
The White house and the Republicans were smart and farsighted enough to realize that by galvanizing the religious, the evangelical community, it stands to gain the most. And they did. As much as Democrats gained by getting the youths out to vote (even then it wasnt a total success as less than 1 in 10 voter was between 18-24), Republicans reaped the rewards of getting Rural america to vote. Thus, being slanted towards the left that I am, I believe Poor people, uneducated, mostly white as well as blue collar americans decided to stay the course with their president. Reasons are quite a few. And has a lot to do with how the Republican's stayed the course, kept their message clear and did not waver, did not admit any mistakes (though they were made all over).
But most of all, Bush won four more years, because they were able to equate Democratic party and Kerry with a Sinful party, a party that is elitist, that looks down upon their religion and cares more about the environment than their jobs. All of which the white house and the Bush administration were eager enough to portray Kerry and his cohorts as least interested in the commmon man and his values. People who voted for Bush, atleast a significant portion, voted overwhelmingly for his virtues (though there are seemingly none) and the values they believed he will uphold.
Republicans also were smart enough to include the Ban for Same Sex marriage on the ballot, thereby once again drawing a parallel between morality and the Presidency. As Republican party seemed more and more the party that cared about religious values, about people's jobs, about tax cuts(though for wealthy), and about the nation's security, The Democratic party seems more and more elitist, belonging to the yuppies, caring more about tree huggers than about the loggers and their jobs, caring more about gays and their rights than about "preserving the sanctity of marriage" and ultimately wavering all over the place with their message and their views on foriegn policy. Kerry also couldnt put forth a consistent and coherent plan on Iraq. I almost wish he had said: "We will pull out of Iraq in six months, regardless of what the cost, to save more american lives, and we will let a Global coalition sort out the mistakes of the previous administration", that could have been a start. But he didnt and as time wore on, there wasnt much of a difference between Bush and Kerry on the war on terror and the war in Iraq and the differences they did have were on moral grounds, on values, on tax cuts, on environmental rights, that majority of Rural america dont give a hoot for.
It will be interesting and we will all be watching the road ahead with trepidation. There is a possibility that the current administration, takes the permission to rule fairly for the next four years, as a god given right and squander it, infact, its not a possibility, it is certain. This President had a chance to unite the country 3 years ago, but he didnt. I dont think he will start now. We will have 4 more years of the same, but more over, we will look back on this day and wonder why we voted to give him 4 more years.
Rapid Nirvana
all i can say is, good luck Americans. hope the next four year changes you, and that you keep fighting the (mostly) bad parts of this administration.
I am at a loss here. The last year, in which i've become a lot more politicly informed, i've found incredible that someone like Bush can get elected. Or thar Kerry is the best de DOP can muster. on hindsight, it even seems he didn't really try to win.
i hope Europe pulls together and goes in a much more liberal and socialist stance, otherwise... the world is screwed...
Obligatoy expletive: how the fuck can this guy win? WE'RE SO SCREWED! 4 more years of this and we could very well end up in a new Dark Age... FUCK!
Please pay attention in your Social Studies classes and/or re-read the news stories over the last few years. You will find that binLaden and many other crazies hated the USofA long before GWB took office and will continue to hate the USofA long after we elect our next president no matter what his political bent is. There are an astonishing number of people in the world whose only purpose in life is to kill, maim, and destroy (always for a "cause", and they can always find a "cause").
Short list off the top of my head:
All of these occured on former President Clinton's watch, just to make my point, but if you check your recent history accounts, you will find plenty more on anybody's watch you care to list.
I really hope we get to vote again in 4 years.
Ja, ich spreche deutsch. As a militant neo-Prussian I am overjoyed to see the rise of our spirit again, even if it is in the territory once occupied by an enemy of our empire. It was quite the Reichstag-show, their world trade center. Does any fellow know who will be appointed Reichkanzler when their leader adopts the title of Führer and removes their Bundestag equivalent or if he will wait until it has been subverted and make use of it? The fools did not believe our spirit could accomplish it once, a toast-do not believe once more!
I see an oncoming threat of growing terror because our country approved the Bush administration for a 2nd time.
I think the probability of a terrorist attack has risen now, especially after Osama's latest video. Obviously Bush being president a 2nd time makes other countries mad.
Our world can not take much more terror and war before it breaks out into an apocalpyse. A 2nd attack on the united states will ensure the draft being brought back. With the country more divided than ever, a civil war will bring friends and families against each other all because there is extreme hatred towards the other in terms of political ideology.
To those whose religion caused them to choose Bush, they should think twice about the teachings of their religions and compare them to what Bush has done.
To those whose business caused them to choose Bush, they should think twice about the money they take in and ask if it is truly more important than doing what is right.
To those whose friends and families caused them to choose Bush, they should think twice about the sole purpose of casting a vote that matters from a single individual. Beware the stupidity of people in large groups.
To those whose would raise a sword against the people who attacked us. We shall die by the sword if we fight by the sword. Evil begets evil, and we can not keep the cycle of evil alive by treating our enemies with violence and destruction.
I pray for all of us in the United States of America, our day of judgement will come and all of us will have to answer each and every hard question in front of the big man upstairs when the time comes. At least I know I will have peace. The big question is, will you?
a typical far left-wing bigot, which is one of the reasons your candidate lost. You really have no understanding of the South or middle America, as Zel Miller stated so eloquently.
First, being 62, I really don't have the time for a gradual improvement. I'm not even sure that's in the offing. Bush offered an unimaginable list of negatives: war and all its attendant horrors, debt-and-spend financial irresponsibility, a broken economy, squandering the world sympathy after 9/11 with a loss of any world friendship. Simply no positive factor. Oh, yes, unless you consider "moral issues". It appears religion has truly become the opiate of the people. How can one help via charity any of those too ignorant, too lead by demagoguery, to at least act in their own interests? How is it moral to create a horrid war leading to your children committing the Abu Grabe atrocities? How can I feel sympathy for mothers of dead children when they favored the war themselves? How can I feel sympathy for vets who vote for decreasing their own benefits? It appears that I am not an american. I do not believe in democracy. It simply does not work. The "demos" simply are incapable of charting a reasonable course into the future. Let them have their comfortable morality. And let them sink further into desperate lack of social infrastructure, into unaffordable medical care, into homelessness. They have brought all this upon themselves. So what would Jesus have done? Would he have voted for war? For ignoring the poor? For pandering to the rich? Maybe Jesus is not moral. It'll be interesting to see what positive spin Michael Moore will be able to put on this. His "50 50 50" split argument appears to have failed: the missing 50% did not make even a dent.
John Kerry
"Mind, as manifested by the capacity to make choices, is to some extent present in every electron." -Freeman Dyson
Why am I even writing about the US elections since I'm french ? (of course I'm french, why do you think I have this outrageous accent ? ;-)).
Just to tell you american guys that we're sad. Everyone around me is sad about this election. Of course you got the right to pick whatever looney you want (it's a free country (remember, hitler was ELECTED))...
Electing bush in the internet age is like saying what IBM's CEO said in the 50s, something like "the world will only need less than 10 computers".
We live in a world of exchange, of trade, diplomacy. There ain't no more cowboys with em' big guns you know. I'm not being aggressive in any way, just sad and scared for the future. The future of the rest of the world.
You know that the US is the only country in the world where people asked me where france was ? Or if we had apples, or electricity ? (I was an exchange student in the subburbs of Boston, so I had quite some time to meet *real* americans. Bush americans)...
anyway, let's not lose hope, for whatever it's worth...
all of you. you make me sick.
for conceding gracefully. Love or hate the results, one sine qua non of democracy is the willingness of a group to accept defeat and to peacefully try again later.
"All the darkness in the world can not quench the light of one small candle."
I think the next 4 years of American History is going to be very interesting. I don't expect a civil war but I do truly wonder what's next.
Seriously, you goddamn moderators, didn't they teach you that you're not supposed to mod up/down post just because you agree/disagree with them?
It's bastards like you that force me to have to browse at -1 in order to see the often insightful posts by people who weren't brainwashed by the liberal linuxRULES anti-MS slashdot hive mind mentality.
I think a fellow commenter said it best yesterday:
What the fuck? What the fucking fuck fuck!?
Oh, I'm sorry... did I snicker?
Hillary is too millitant, too far-left, and carries too much baggage to win. You think conservatives were mobilized in THIS election? Just wait until we start seeing Bill and Hillary out on the stump again. The Clintons are VERY polarizing.
Personally, I think it'd be great to see a woman win the White House. I think Elizabeth Dole has a much better chance than Hillary Clinton.
It is truly a sad day for those who support the Jeffersonian ideal of democracy when a regime that supports torture, http://www.nybooks.com/articles/17230 and ignores due process of law is supported by so many Americans.
By the way, I am an American who served for nearly six years as an officer in the USAF.
Damn, I wish I had bought myself one.
This is not my sandwich.
we (liberals that is) need to reframe popular thinking.
p hant/
read Don't Think of an Elephant by George Lakoff (http://http//www.chelseagreen.com/2004/items/ele
To know is to have knowledge....to understand is to be enlightened.
It's those very issues that won the election for Bush.
The vast majority of Americans are some Christian derivative. Nothing wrong with that.
These Christian folks have some strong-held beliefs. Nothing wrong with that.
But what tangible affect on the day-today lives of those Christians do those issues really have? None. None at all. They're not gonna get an abortion, nor will they marry a same-sex partner.
So... does having a president in office supporting those views really change much? Not a whit.
Never mind his obvious lying and the smear campaign during the election. Never mind the dubious war we're waging, the jobs fleeing over seas, or the the US's growing debt. Nevr mind that Molly Morman's kids can be sent to war next week, so long as we have a president strong on "morals" who might get R. v. W. overturned by the supreme court and amend our most important rights-protecting document to exclude a segment of the population.
So let's recap: War good. Fags bad. Huge deficit good. Personal choice in medical care (abortion) bad.
As much as I liked him as a President, I think Clinton is the reason we're in this mess (that whole scandal thing). People hold party faith like they hold religious faith -- without any thought or intelligence put into it. They go with the flow, 'cause it's the easiest thing to do.
For fuck's sake. Kerry was no shining star, but we had 4 years of Bush. I'd pick an unknown for the next 4 years. I can't praise Dems for thinking Kerry was the right choise, but I can fault 'Pubs for not knowing Bush was the wrong one. Why go with Bush again? Oh yeah, he hates fags.
We deserve to get attacked again. We really do. We're such sheep.
Method of processing duck feet
How many Marines do you think there are that think that military force is the wrong way to solve problems?
The Marines absolutely have to believe they're doing the right thing. That absolute, unwavering belief is part of what keeps them alive.
The thing is, Marines are generally not political scientists. They're not experts on foreign relations, and they don't know the nuances of the different branches of Islam. They're the pointy end of the stick, and they're damn good at being that.
The problem is, the person weilding that pointy stick has to use that stick effectively. They're supposed to be the ones who *do* know about diplomacy, who *do* know about the history of the region, the culture, and everything else. Loyal marines should *not* be wasted on something that is not going to make the country or the world safer.
What many of the "liberals" think is that not only is it awful that US soldiers are being killed, the bad part is that it is making both the country and the world a less safe place. It's the job of the Marines to do what the Commander in Chief says to do, including dying. Its the job of the voters to choose a Commander in Chief who won't send them to die unless it's absolutely necessary.
If you disagree, and think that their deaths are necessary to help save the world, why not enlist. It's something that far more of the current democrat politicians have done than republicans. Maybe that should tell you something.
I'll gladly rip out your children's HEARTS and EAT THEM.
Delicious!
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Being principled, taking a completely concrete stand is OK only if you have complete knowledge, which you don't (and can never) have. Which is why the smartest people often don't take a *firm* stand on anything until necessary to make a decision, and based *upon that time* and the knowledge at hand; only idiots and fools do otherwise.
Here, and in other places, I keep hearing the word "liberal" used as a put-down. Some how insinuating that being a "liberal" is bad. My question to all of you is... Why?
Definition of Liberal
I'm actually quite proud to be a liberal. Seems to be a more accepting, forward thinking type of person.
Every time I was able to hear Kerry say more than one complete sentence, I liked what I heard.
There are just two problems:
First, our news organizations deal in nothing other than sound bites. I believe I heard Kerry actually speak, only 4 times - at the Convention and at the debates.
Second, the Bush administration managed to put more words in Kerry's mouth than he did. They continuously put up straw-Kerrys and knocked them down. I suspect the nation based its impression of Kerry more on Republican information than on Democratic.
Indeed, some of us were gathered last Saturday, and one person said, "I liked Kerry during the debates, but as time goes on I like him less and less." Between the style of media coverage and relentless character assasination campaigning, that's what happens.
And indeed, Bob Dole said on Larry King (I think) that Clinton had used this strategy against him in 1996, and the Republicans were going to do it to Kerry this year. This campaign was run by the same Karl Rove that smeared McCain in the 2000 primaries with the black-love-child inuendo and patriotism smears.
Why don't you ask why the Republicans can't field a better candidate than Bush. When placed on his own, in front of the camera, for a sustained period in the debates, he didn't do very well. The reality is that Bush is a better campaigner than he is a President.
So criticize Kerry for being a poor campaigner - I'm not sure what it would have taken to be effective against Karl Rove. I'm not sure *anyone* could have done anything better. Keep in mind that for all of his effectiveness, Dean was taken down by an improperly done microphone feed. (Actually, his campaign finances were all wrong too, but that hadn't hit, yet.)
But I do believe Kerry would have been a good President, particularly for these times. He couldn't have led us far astray, because Congress would have checked him. At the same time, he would have checked Congress' more overzealous excesses.
The only possiblity for checks and balances in the new adminstration will be if the moderate Republicans rebel against the Religious Right. (Who appear to be holding the purse-strings.)
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
The Parent should be modded up. Some asshole happens to diasagree, so they mark it flamebait.
There is nothing flamebait-worthy in the above post. Actually it contain a few worthy comments that a lot of people ought to read.
The parent was right, the "hysterical reactions" need to stop. Get a grip people. This is not the end of the world.
Well, it is not all that new but we promise to worship it during the next 4 years !
At least we now have a chance of seeing Clinton 2008.
-Colin
Next time, please take a look at the Election Map and pick one of the red states to attack. Electing Bush again was their idea, not ours.
Sincerely,
A Citizen of a Blue State
P.S.: Don't bother to tell me that the Pentagon is in a red state - it's practically part of DC, which is blue.
By the way: I'm actually happy with the outcome of this election, so for me this is not about preventing Bush from staying in power.
The Democrat Hollings has retired. He was the major supporter of the draft. Also, Kerry wasn't elected. He promised 40,000 new troops. Now without Hollings and without Kerry's huge new troop commitment, we're much safer from the chance of being drafted.
Osamma.
Your faithful zombie,
Geroge
IMHO; I think we (U.S.) are going to hell. The voters that chose Bush deserve what they are going to get from their leader. More fear mongering and war. -Yeah, mod me down. What can be worse?
Why is it that most the posts I see on here are assuming that the majority are morons and only the liberals know what is best for the country. I guess you need to get it out of your system, rant away. I think most of you forget about all the other facets of the country's Gov't that shapes our future. It is not one man. I think as an american people we need to stop whining so much and actually do something about the economy and the events around us. We love to talk but we hate to do anything ourselves. Let someone else do it and bitch about how we could have done it better. Great mentality. How about we do something different for a change. Support the Gov't, work on reforms as a people. If you dont like something, DO something to change it, start a petition, talk to your representatives. Just stop whining....
CS: It is all sink or swim...oh and did I mention there are sharks in that water?
With the votes not fully counted in Ohio (and elsewhere) this election is not yet over. Kerry conceding and Bush giving victory speeches is just a lot of hot air. If all the ballots in Ohio (and elsewhere) show Kerry the electoral winner I fully expect Bush to step down and Kerry to step up. If that does not happen a great injustice will be done to democracy.
It seems that Kerry tried to ride the anti-Bush sentiment into the White House and it didn't work.
Instead of conceding he should do this:
1.) Tell all Kerry electors to cast their Prez vote for John McCain and Colin Powell for VP.
2.) Try to get Bush Electors to change their vote to McCain/Powell. This plan would need 17 Bush electors to defect. Since the defection would only be Bush to McCain, it is possible there are 17 Republican electors who would do so (to "unify the country.")
Now either McCain is elected President, or more likely:
Bush 269 EV
McCain 200 EV
Kerry 52 EV (because not all Kerry electors would change votes, in fear states that consider it a crime)
and the election is thrown into the House. All the dem state delegations would vote McCain, and probably a few Repub state delegations would go for McCain too.
Although Kerry can't win the Presidency anymore, if he was smart, they would try to make sure a republican they could live with (like McCain) could end up in the White House.
Too bad Kerry and the Dems are dumb.
I've never been so ashamed that you're an American.
3000+ comments meta-modded. 0 mod points awarded.
Lesson for other meta-suckers: Don't believe the hype!
in our CI class, our entire grade took a online test where you would fill out what you had priority wise and what candidate agreed with you the most. i am not joking when i say that the vast majority of the class, regardless of if they said they were D or R had at least a 80% agreement rate with cobb and the green party. im not saying that the green party is the only way to go, to be honest i never really looked into them, but if our governemt is bipartisan , lots of people will always be pissed. the fact that there not even given the chance to be in a debate is simply wrong. they shouldn't need a certain percent of the vote, simply being in 3rd place should get them in. there is no reason at all that we should continue ruining our nation by chosing from 2, when a group that comprimises would be more liked by the masses. some people here are saying that bush is basically in because of his religious stances etc and there right. for many INCLUDING myself, bush's morals (in regards to religion) are what i vote for, but in all of the other aspects, he is a monkey. we shouldn't have to be forced into picking 2 opposites.
We need a whole new system of elections. And while I do not know exactly how it works right now, I have a very good idea.
For Congressional Districts, redistrcting can cause problems making it unfair. One idea is try to make the Congressional District along the boarders of the counties as best as possible. Or have a statewide STV election.
As for abolishing the Electoral College, I don't know. I do know that we need to prevent election fraud, whether it's rigged electronic voting, missing ballots, unsent absentee ballots, provisional ballots being ignored, etc.
Third parties need to be included in debates. Also, free airtime to all parties for the Presidential race.
Maybe it's time we elect the President and VP separately? Perhaps it would be better if by some chance, we get a Democratic President and Republican VP. Maybe that could help with the balance of power, cause the other one might prevent some corruption.
Perhaps the even year General election after the Presidential election (2006, 2010, 2012, etc), a recall vote be required. The idea of this is if a President gets a 50+% recall vote, perhaps he or she shouldn't serve out the rest of the term.
....you have my pity. I hope your country survives another four years of these neocon thugs.
The electoral college assures that each candidate will visit every state, not just the ones needed to win. If we did it by popular vote, a Democrat would win nearly every time because CA, NY, and a couple of other states have the most population.
As a Texan, let me tell you what I see and hear every election:
"Candidate X went to Ohio." "More ads spent in Ohio, Virginia, etc."
Hell, Bush visited the midwest more than he did his "home state"! (I'm excluding vacations... er... "working" vactions).
I have a friend in Virginia who got up and close to candidates. Do I get that chance? Hell, no!
Ask Alaska and Hawaii how often they see candidates. Don't be ignorant.
I tell ya' what would help - get rid of these freakin' "winner take all". Only 2/3rd's of Texas voted Republican, yet Bush takes it all?
Oh, yeah, never mind. I live in a retard state.
Feloneous
IANAL, but I've seen actors play them on TV
You can kiss our collective ass.
We tried, but we couldn't get into the Oval Office.
But it is a beautiful poem - I like it because it captures a different interpretation of "the end of the world", actually a very optimistic one, except for the old man's state of mind. The "end of the world" comes every day. But in at least one interpretation we would see the old man as insane. Eeven his state of mind does not challenge the description of peacefulness preceding.
Thank you for posting this!
http://www.zycha.com/HeyTerrorists.jpg
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
Guess what? I am going to keep exercising that right to bitch, whine, and hope that Air Force One developes a nice flamable fuel leak over the next four years.
Then I'm going to go back out and vote all over again. Ah, the cycle of politics.
good post. i especially agree with your last comment.
Just after I heard Kerry had conceded XMMS randomly played R.E.M.s "Its the end of the world as we know it".
If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done?
I think you've hit the nail on the head. Frist who? Hagel what? I vaguely recall Pataki. And the others?
But Giuliani could win in a heartbeat. He's moderate, diplomatic, well liked, tough, and a proven effective leader with the ability to find common ground instead of just using his base. The exact opposite of George W. Bush. He cleaned up New York and performed admirably on 9/11. I would vote for him over a democrat, unless that democrat could match him in kind, and as I said I can't think of anyone really inspiring on the democratic side.
I'm not sure what the point of Rice is. No personality and probably wouldn't help capture the black vote. Bill Clinton had way more soul than her.
Actually, Guiliani could run as an independent and win with a majority, though he would gut one party in the process and take a big chunk out of the other (and of course allay fears of being a spoiler by polling as a winner from the start). I wouldn't mind seeing that at all. His only weak point was allegedly unfair treatment of blacks during the early part of his tenure as New York mayor, so a black Veep would be a good addition...
Now that I think of it, Obama may not have the experience for president but provided he handles himself well in office for the next three years he would be a HUGE asset as a vice presidential candidate, which would put him squarely in line for president later...
God... Giuliani/Obama '08... I get goose bumps just thinking about it...
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
Bush won. Kerry lost. Election is over. Can we please dispense with all the sour grapes and bitching AGAIN? Didn't you have enough of that in 2000? Field a better candidate in 2008 and get on with your life already.
why a majority of the American population voted in a fully incompetent president with a miserable track record? Are Americans all masochists? Do they fail to see that when the rest of the world hates their elected leader, the rest of the world will hate them? Do they not care? Are they all of the "fuck you" attitude? Is that what it really means to be American?
Meh.
However this is the first Presidentail election since 1988 where the Electoral votes aligned with the popular votes.
Please tell us all who won the popular vote in 92 and 96.
Too bad paper votes didn't work out. Looks like it's time to vote with semi-automatic weapons.
Good thing they're legal again!
Just be sure to get the V.P. first, otherwise we may well end up worse off.
I'm surprised that Kerry conceded so quickly. Projecting the trends, it was likely that Bush would win. However, I think Kerry had every right to wait until the Ohio absentee and provisional ballots were counted, they may have given him the Ohio electoral vote. Bush would still have the popular majority, but that's not what elects the president in the USA.
Anyway, a salute to Kerry for being a gentleman. It's good to get this behind us.
If God had meant for man to see the sunrise, He would have scheduled it later in the day.
Abraham Lincoln (also a Republican mind you) was arguably the most hated president of his time, much more than Bush, though later on oppinions of him definitely changed. That considered, the future oppinion of Bush could get better or worse.
to Dr. Koolade
The reality based faction has its points. We suck at winning elections, but we're not delusional.
Who's the demagogue? Who ran a gay-baiting campaign to bring the fundies out of the woodwork? And then quietly said civil unions were o.k.?
The reason the Swift Boat liars came out was because Kerry took a principled stand to end the horror in Vietnam. He was right. In his testimony and his stance.
We know Bush isn't fit to be president - he was asleep at the switch when we got hit on 9/11, his compulsive secrecy undermines the Republic, he invaded the WRONG FUCKING COUNTRY and did it ineptly. Yet "things are going great in Iraq." If they were going great WE WOULD BE WITHDRAWING BY NOW.
No, the reason we Dems lost is because elections are beauty contests. Most Bush supporters have very little idea what he stands for. Polls show most of them believe he supports the Kyoto limits on greenhouse gases, is concerned about the deficit, would increase taxes on the wealthiest, wants healthcare coverage for all americans, etc. Most of them believe WMDs were FOUND in Iraq, and that Saddam had something to do with 9/11.
They went for the Bush brand, and found some reasons after the fact for doing so. Just like people buy cars.
This is an important point. I'm not actually upset that Bush won -- I don't like either of them -- but the fact that we can't know if Diebold actually fixed the Ohio election is a point that needs to be raised far and wide.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
"A man who will not die for something is not fit to live." - Martin Luther King Jr.
Thank you oh great Anonymous Coward for your words of wisdom. As a former Marine I'm obviously not worthy to share this forum with giant minds like you.
Pardon my formatting earlier.
You're almost certainly right that the third party share is unusually low, but I don't think low third party turnouts are bad in our current predicament:
Until we have ranked-choice voting, there's zero realistic chance of a third party doing *anything but* spoiling, and the low percentages are a good indicator of people's recognizance of that sad fact. Bush was really, really bad, and even a centrist would (I thought) be an obviously massive improvement. Kerry had a realistic *chance* to help that. Anyway, that's irrelevant:
I want ranked choice as much as anyone and more than most, and I'd love to see the Green/Libertarian platforms (which have a surprising amount of *real* fiscal conservatism in'em) have their day -- but they will only do so in that context. In our current two party setup, you vote for the closest-to-center candidate who is still on your side, because the most people will see him as acceptable.
Ranked choice voting eliminates the necessity of that compromise, because acceptability is implicit in your rankings. It's a beautiful concept, and has been implemented here in San Francisco quite successfully in this very election.
I don't for a second think that a thoroughly chaotic 30-party system like turns up in young democracies is in any way better than our two. In that situation, the complexities of the deals parties have to cut in order to get votes are too much for even a diligent and informed voter to parse. Volatility in those systems is *absurd*.
Maximizing public utility is all about gathering information on acceptability -- which RCV accomplishes.
If you want to be able to vote for the Green/Lib candidate and *really* help the world, start raising hell for ranked choice.
We really dont want your @55 here at all, we already dont have enough jobs as it is... stay where you are!
I wish to humbly thank the American people for deciding to raze their current position. I was sweating bullets for a while thinking that someone smart might become President; someone who might maintain the USA hegemony. But, you lived up to your international reputation and chose a protectionist, aggressive, and isolationist moron (to quote a Canadian government spokesperson) as head of state and chief executive. I know that the world in general is less safe for the short-term, but I also know that the ony super-power is heading down the path to marginalization that Spain, Mongolia, Rome, and Greece illuminated during their downfalls. This gives me confidence in the long-term future of the rest of the world.
Well done, America! You've nobly sacrificed yourselves for the betterment of mankind.
Draft? Hate to tell you this, but the draft was the democrats idea, and now it's certainly not going to come to pass.
Honestly, this makes me feel rather good about who I chose as president.
You bet your life. Good luck.
I really thought America deserved a better leader than the crook who stole the election in 2000. However, the people have spoken - they want more of this guy? A man who responded to the murder of 3500 Americans by killing over 5 Iraqi civilians for every murdered American. Truly a Christian ethos.
May you reap what you sow
With all the trouble that'd been made over the security of electronic voting machines, and the problems reported here and elsewhere regarding them and their use, I'm more than a little surprised that there's been no conversation regarding this that's been modded up.
Personally, I would LOVE to see some sort of a table with all the precincts that used electronic voting and what their results were, so that they could be examined for bias in either direction. Has anyone done this? Or is anyone willing to do this and share with the group?
That green slime had it coming.
Wow. What a sad, sad bunch of whining losers.
My family (wife and three kids) supported Bush this year. Not because he's the magic bullet which will fix America's problems, but because he's much less dangerous than Kerry. Last night at dinner, the kids were watching the early returns, and were worried that Kerry might win. I told them, "Kerry might win. If he does, he's going to be our president for four years, and we'll do our best to support him. Everything will be all right."
Kerry was a very, very poor candidate. He was, as it turns out, unelectable. The Democrats were given the "Perfect Storm" election:
--A sitting president engaged in an unpopular war, with no clear extraction date
--An incumbent who can't reliably speak the English language
--Job loss statistics pointing to millions of lost jobs
--Massive healthcare cost inflation
--A swing from huge budget surpluses to huge deficits
--A "charged-up" base who felt that the 2000 election had been stolen
--Hundreds of millions of $ in 527 support
The Democratic party should have had no trouble presenting a candidate who would have been able to crush the incumbent. Instead, they chose Kerry.
I understand you're mad at the results. I think it's time to look inwardly, and reform the Democratic Party. Learn from this mistake. Show the American people that you're not run by left-wing nutjobs, and field an electable candidate, and I can't see how you lose in 2008.
Unless you try to nominate Hillary.
The cure for cancer is coming: Reovirus
HOWTO: Draft Dodge
Move to Canada.
in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni
Actually I think he won it by a margin of 3,529,724 (or whatever).
You can kiss our collective ass.
More like the right cheek and the hole. The left wants nothing to do with this.
http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/%7Egcharter/iq.txt
"There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people."--Howard Zinn
Nuf said.
It was pretty much Rural and small town population VS Urban population, where do you think the majority of the democratic votes come from in the Southern states, and the republican votes come from in the midwestern states? Theres just more and more division now between the mostly urban coasts and the mostly spread out middle and south. The urban populations generally aren't as religous, don't have the history of the rural states and lives focus on their jobs, family, money and being entertained, then religion. The people who live in more rural and spread out states, their lives are generally focused on Family, religion, jobs, money and being entertained. Does anyone have any statistics on who voted on each side based on income? And yes I am generalizing, but I believe the above to be true for the most part.
RightWing Propaganda Machine, hehe that's rich. The "LEFTwing" has Hollywood and the supposedly unbased media. Remeber Michael Moore and his crockumentaries? We do.
... no parties? Seriously, what's the purpose of a political party? The natural progression is to a "Property Party" in today's world. Political parties only exist to push a narrow agenda. Take away political parties and you get people who have to think and care about what their actual constituency thinks and what others may need, not what the constituency of the "party" thinks and pushes on them.
Political parties only exist because of the social "need" for groups and the pure laziness of the common person in the political process. Why think and balance needs and wants when you can just find the party that's closest to the way you think?
-Jellisky
I sent this letter to my family and friends. Enjoy...
:) But usually when I feel strong
-----
I had to get this off my chest, because it is important to me. You're
certainly not obligated to respond.
enough about something I have to share. This is one of those times.
Those of you who I've engaged in political discussion in the past
probably know that I'm a Libertarian in core ideology, and in
practicality, a moderate who leans toward conservative (especially in
fiscal matters.) I voted for Dole in 96, McCain in the 2000 primary,
Harry Browne (Libertarian) in the 2000 election... though I was not
sad to see Bush defeat Gore.
It may surprise you to learn that I voted for John Kerry yesterday.
While I understand the whole thing about him being liberal yankee
senator with a history of flip flops, I think that there was a good
deal of spin on the parts of both the major parties in this election.
For instance, Bush's flipflops were never addressed; in 2000 Bush
campaigned and sold himself as a moderate in world affairs and
domestic issues, I think we have found that this has not been the
case. Bush specifically stated that he did not agree with sending
American troops into foreign countries to do "nation building." While
he did not have the foresight of what would happen in 2001, and there
is no question Afghanistan NEEDED our "nation building," look at what
a mess Iraq has become. If that is not a flip-flop, what is? Or if
you consider it someone making a better decision based on new
information, then why is Kerry as flip-flopper for doing the same
thing? Given Kerry's record of public service, he's AT LEAST as
qualified as Bush to run the country, and frankly, I think we could
have used the change.
What I want to get to in this message is why I think four more years
of Bush has the potential to be a very bad thing.
FACT: Bush has won the election. Forget what CNN is telling you about Ohio.
Even if the Ohio provisional ballots were something irrational like
80% for Kerry, Bush would still win, he has 140,000 vote advantage.
The Secretary of State has told his campaign that is it statistically
impossibly for Kerry to win Ohio.
I am not happy with this outcome because we now have a more Republican
Congress, a VERY conservative Republican executive branch, and a
delicate balance of ideology in the Supreme Court. There is no
incentive for the partisan interests in charge to attract any kind of
coalition or create any sense of compromise on anything.
I am of the opinion that this is a bad thing. It's bad for the country
and her people, at least 54 million of which believe another guy
should be president.
As near as I can tell, Bush won fair and square. (If he didn't, we'll
never know-- tinfoil hat time! *smirk*) Yay, democracy works. I just
don't think a lot of people have considered the big picture of how our
country stands in the world or even how our country looks to our
moderate and liberal domestic neighbors, who now have basically no
representative interests for their legitimate concerns. Bush gave 'em
tax cuts and got rid of Saddam, and that's good enough.
What about my friends who are without manufacturing jobs, many right
here in Ohio? What about a half-trillion dollar deficit? (That is not
fiscal responsibility!) What about the long and lingering war in
Iraq, where my brother is likely to return in the near future? What
about the continuing debate on the vice president's corporate
interests? And the Attorney General's moral interests? (Had I known
John Ashcroft would be selected Attorney General, I would have voted
for Gore four years ago. This is a guy who not only lost a Senate
race to a dead man, he also said things regarding Congress such as "I
think all we should legislate is morality." Last week, he calls for a
"War on Piracy," ostensibly to protect corp
I moved from the United States to Finland a month and a half ago due to the political situation in the USA. I was born in the USA and so were my parents, I'm not a returning former citizen to Finland or any such thing.
I'm posting in response to RealAlaskan's request for information about someone who had actually done the move. If people want to be angry at the content of my post, or troll, or whatever, that's on them. I imagine there are people who will read this who actually want to know.
Question part #1: why?
# It was depressing to wake up every morning knowing that my tax money and support of the American economy was being used to effect morally unconscionable things such as killing people for no good reason. Furthermore, from the moment I realized this was happening, it was my responsibility to stop letting others use my money and resources this way.
# I've learned that I've been lied to both about America itself, and America's role in the world, for my entire life through the television, school, and the work-sleep-die culture that persists there, and I'm angry about it.
# It was frustrating to be forced to see, every day, so many of the people around me (and a few of them otherwise very intelligent) living in a quasi-reality that is based upon these lies, their indoctrination being so complete that it was impossible to communicate what I'd learned to them.
# There are better places to live, and I believe I am now in one of them.
# Most importantly, I became convinced that I and the other people in America who came to understand the problems and recognize the lies were powerless to fix the situation, in spite of the fairy tale image that is put forth in our culture about the nature of American democracy allowing individual heroes to rise up and save the day.
Question part #2: how is it working out?
So far it is working out fine. Part of that is in the details of how I was able to move. I'm a self-employed internet consultant and I have three years worth of business licenses to prove it, and Finland appears to like self employed people. In order to live here legally, I had to get a residence permit from the Finnish government, and in order to do that, I had to first get what is known as a "favorable" work permit opinion from them, which meant basically that I had to show that I could support myself here, either through having found a job that I was legally qualified for, or being self employed. Thorough documentation of my self-employment got me the 'favorable' decision on my work permit opinion, and everything else fell into place. Total money sent to Finland to get both things out of the way: $164 and couple passport-type photographs, and the application process took 6 months from beginning to end. The stuff is valid for 1 year, and I have to reapply each year until I can get citizenship.
To get citizenship here, you have to live here legally for 5 years, and be able to speak one of the primary languages (Swedish or Finnish) when you apply. We'll see how that goes, as that is my plan for the future. Finnish is a very hard language to learn, btw, but within 5 years I hope to be able to get good enough.
So I now live in the Helsinki area and continue to work for my American customers. So far it is working out fine. My rent for this 2 bedroom apartment is around 480 euro/month and it is a decent sized apartment. One does not need a car to do most things around here. Each road of any size has a huge sidewalk the size of a lane of road, and this is for both bicycle riders and pedestrians. City-maintained bike+pedestrian paths also cut through every imagineable area one could presume one might fit, and the ones that cut through the woods are used as ski trails when it snows. The area is an interesting combination of urban + suburb, there are woods everywhere but at the same time, it is a real city. This place is a jogger's dream come true, and people of all ages ride bicycles all over the place. Even old people ride bikes.
P
Yeah, I voted for Bush. No, I didn't want to, but my personal policy is to vote for things rather than against them. All I heard from the Kerry camp was a litany of 'we're not Bush' and that's not good enough.
Not happy with the outcome? Welcome to the club. I was sick to the point of physical nausea when an amoral, greasy politician like Clinton was able to get re-elected. Suck it up and live with it, and do what you can to undo it in later elections.
You sound like you're a half-step from throwing Molotov cocktails at police stations and kidnapping newspaper heiresses. Knock it off and start working to make things better instead of trying to set the national whine record. I'd love to be able to choose between the Rebellion and the Empire, but life is tragically not that black and white. Painting people and groups and evil or pure of heart simply means you haven't taken a hard enough look at either point of view.
Like it or not, the people have spoken and they came down decisively on the side of the Bush crowd. I don't hate him, you, or anyone else. We're all brothers on the same side. If you haven't yet realized that the issue isn't me against you, but us against them, then you haven't been paying attention.
Finally, let me respond on your level on one issue: Integrity begins at home, motherfucker, and don't you dare call out others to take responsibility when you come out with a sniveling, whining, wailing rant and post as AC, you hypocritical, nonsensical, snot-nosed cunt.
I'll tell you what the 'effect' is! It's pissing me off!
Spread the word!
http://www.boycottamerica.org
Meh.
from a corrupt system
Democrats gave Bush the election by stabbing Dean in the back.
Now we've got four more years of tyranny by the overly affluent.
~ gawd, do rich peeps sux or what, eh
If the trends of the last few years keep up, I expect the Canadian Dollar to over-value the American sometime in the next 4 years.
Dammit.
DG
Want to learn about race cars? Read my Book
There is a beautiful quote about democracy: "In Democracy a country always gets the leader it deserves." It's hard to think of a leader that America deserves more than George W Bush. Maybe Kim Jong II would have been a more deserving leader, unfortunately he was not elegible to run for office.
:)
Congratulations America! Enjoy your four years of darkness - you earned it.
Your greatest fear has already been realized. Progressives lost, Bush will get to appoint his radical conservative judges to the Supreme Court, his wealthy supporters will continue to rape the country (while they invest their own money in what they know to be the future: other countries). Its done.
The idiots that supported Bush won't know what hit them. Fifty years from now when the U.S. is an ex-superpower they can all wonder just what happened, and maybe then they'll realize that they were sold out to make a buck. The wealthy families will all have shifted their wealth elsewhere by then.
I'm no idiot.. I'm not sticking around to watch this happen. Face it, America is no longer carrying the banner of freedom. I started making plans for this contingency a while back, and I'm all ready to go as soon as mid-January.
I fought the good fight, donated a heck of a lot of time and money to getting Bush out of office... and lost. This was the war. The damage that Bush will continue to do over the next four years WILL NOT BE UNDOABLE BY THE NEXT DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT.
Spend some time in Europe (if you haven't already) and you'll realize just how backwards America is becoming. Don't be foolish and fight a losing battle here.
Hell, the democrats are already figuring that they have to do some "soul searching", and they'll probably be far less progressive in the future, just so they'll have a chance of winning. So even supporting the democrats won't mean supporting the progressive values you believe in.
As far as I'm concerned, we can play this out like in Atlas Shrugged: all the intelligent productive people can leave, and all the idiots that are left over can wonder why they're suddenly up to their necks in crap.
and obviously they welcome their corporate overlords. Let's hope that wakes up the "other" sleeping giant called "The Rest of the World". It appears Diebold kept their promise. The underground just got deeper. It looks like soon we will have two distict societies on this planet which will be in perpetual war. Sure make me wish there was a god to rescue us.
What?
Good points. Glad to see a real liberal here (in the true sense of the word).
Another way of stating the outcome.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
So, how many /.ers think than Hilary will be the
first woman to be president of the USA?
while i will concede that more people want bush to be president than kerry, i will not concede that bush would be a better leader. i also believe that many of the people who want bush to be president are not seeing the truth ( The separate Realities of Bush and Kerry Supporters) and many more are single issue voters who voted for him because of his stance on (for example) gay rights and could care less if the rest of his policies bring the courty to its knees over the next four years.
And, for the record, I'm happy to see so many religious Americans support Bush's family values: lies, greed, and discrimination. After all, who has time to help the poor, heal the sick, or protect God's creation? We have corporations and millionaires to look after! These are the values I hope to instill in my children someday.
If I don't put anything here, will anyone recognize me anymore?
This was said to be the most important election of our lives. Does anybody still feel that way, considering the outcome?
Let's think with a clear head here. Most Americans, the ones that voted for Kerry included, have no idea what's going on in the world. You can try to figure out why that is (media is f-d up, people being taught to lead selfish materialistic lives from the day they are born, etc.), but that's irrelevant to this discussion. The popular vote was for Bush, and that's who won. So, at least in this election, you could say that the will of the majority was expressed. I am not concerned with why more than half of the people who voted did so for Bush. They did, and he won.
Change is not as simple as having P. Diddy start a campaign. Real change is very hard. Near impossible. You have to educate people, in such a way that they seek out information. You do not teach people what they should think. You teach them to think, and show them what methods are available for gathering information. What they think afterwards is up to them. This is not even close to being a reality in the USA. Most people are simply concerned with their well-being and materialistic things - I want an iPod, I want a bigger truck, I want this, I want that. I want. It is very easy to control such people, because they are short-sighted and distracted. And Kerry would not have made any difference whatsoever in this respect. The imperialistic foreign policy America puts forth would have been relatively the same, albeit probably with a much less arrogant and aggressive façade.
The rest of the world pretty much lives in ignorance too, much like the people of the US. As long as you don't add insult to injury, like Bush likes to do, they have their own local problems to focus on. Granted, their problems are a bit different from yours and mine - we're worried about what Apple will legally allow you to download to your iPod, while some of them are worried about where their next meal will come from. In the end, none of it matters, although you do need food for basic life support.
Killing people, however, is unacceptable. And probably the biggest tragedy of all this is that most of the people who voted for Bush don't realize what they support because of the distorted view of the war. Make no mistake, Kerry was no great leader - far from it. But a) my personal opinion is that he is at least barely more intelligent than Bush and, more importantly, b) I think a few more lives would have been spared around the globe were he president.
Please note that lives are lives, and it is morally wrong to make a distinction between innocent foreigners and innocent Americans when it comes to dieing. Yet this is accepted as common practice in this country.
Must-not-watch TV!
What I have a hard time swallowing is that I live in a country where more than half the population is willfully ignorant, politically obstinate, religiously prejudiced, and embarrassingly gullible.
You know what gets me? How Democrats can't seem to shut up about how smart they are. Really. Every single political thread I've seen lately has had some kind of attack on the intelligence of Bush voters, with the implicit or explicit praising of anti-Bush voters.
Tell me, if you guys are so damn smart, then why are you out the presidency, why are you out more senate seats, and why are you out a few more house seats too?
(Note: Americans are dumb is not an acceptable answer.)
When you lose this big, and this consistently, there is something wrong with your side.
You need to think long and hard about what that is. I have my own ideas, of course.
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
I only scored 46 points on the skilled worker test. I lost a lot of points because I am self taught even though I have almost 30 years experience.
In a recent survey, it was found that equal numbers of airplanes and boats were sold during the same period. This proves that they are infact the same item. If there was a clear difference, it would be easy for ad execs to deliver that message about the item, and if people agreed, they would support it by buying a larger quantity.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
You obviously have no idea of the real reason the electoral college was instituted, or how it differs from the version used today. I will leave it as an exercise in humility for you to find that info yourself (hint:k5). You and the popular majority of the US are indescribably clueless.
There once was a fellow named Kerry
who couldn't sway those that were wary
With less votes than he needed,
the race he conceded,
and W ate, drank, and made merry
You had me at "dicks fuck assholes".
#5. People who you don't understand
All I know is that I want nothing -- nothing -- to do with any of the red states.
Hold up just a second. You have to realize that not ALL of a particular state is 'red'. I'm in IL, which went to Kerry. However, I'm in the lower part of the state, St Clair county. Right across the river from here is St Louis, MO, which is part of a "red" state. However, look at the voter breakdown. St Louis was ALSO for Kerry. My particular region is pretty heavy in Democratic support.
What I'm getting at is, don't hate a whole state because its vote went to Bush. Remember that parts of those states voted the other way, but just weren't big enough to carry the state. If you want to hate the red states fine, as long as we get to annex St Louis.
NOTE: I really like St Louis and don't want them lumped in with the rest of MO.
C Pungent
to re-define what America is, you might not be very happy to know that is not what you though it was,
hacked elections and diebold. Your sister is correct.
welcome our newly mandated fascist overlord.....
We can have umpteen Rock-the-Vote,Vote_and_I_will_bear_you_a_child, Vote_and_I_will_sleep_with_you, Vote_Or_Die measures for the next election or we can impose this rule.
On the day of Election:
(a) MTV and the other Teen Channels would not air anything other than patriotic music plus Beethoven.
(b) Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo would introduce a trigger to their consoles which will power them down on the day of the election and stay that way for 24 hours
(c) Instant Messenger software will stop working
(d) Any celebrity who has graced atleast a corner of the 3rd page of any teen magazine will be made to report to a pre-assigned voting booth for better youth turn outs.
(e) Bitchslap the celebrity till they agree to have orgies with young voters once they vote
(f) For the rural areas, pass around ammo and matches to burn candidate effigies.
Rapid Nirvana
I'd like to believe that Bush's politics will somehow change (commentators speculating about that), but I'm also realistic enough to realize that the quasi-cleptocratic regime will probably continue just like before and stands a good chance of totally annoying and scaring-off the rest of the world, removing the last bit of credibility the USA still had in some places around the world, while also ruining the budget. With cynism, one could argue that the current administration is trying to shove all money that is available now, together with any money they can borrough on to political friends and old allies just so that should one day another administration come into power, it wouldn't be able to spend it on welfare and social causes....
I don't want to say the so called "war on terrorism" cannot be won - but it looks doubtful if it can be done with the means (and dare I say: attidtude?) of the current (and next) administration - and the consequences of a failure of this undertaking are really horrible.
If we're lucky (we=the world), we're only in basically the same situation 4 years from now. *If* the shit hits the fan in the middle-east, people even as far as Ohio or Texas will be more-or-less directly impacted by those events.
Not to mention us in Europe,
So, what ?
Maybe the only thing that results from this election is that the world will go belly-up just 4 years earlier than anticipated.
Small change in God's plan.
Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
Based on the poll here on slashdot it seemed an overwhelming majority went with John Kerry. Yet Bush has (for now) won this election. The conclusion I draw from this is that /. readers are more informed on the issues at hand and base their decisions on that whereas most of the american public bases this on different matters entirely (religous background, what party they represent) rather than doing extensive research. Anybody else feel this same way? If only canada had california's weather...... sigh
Before the election I was disgusted by Bush, but now I'm disgusted by our entire country. I can only hope that he'll break things so badly that people out in the midwest/south will be forced to start thinking.
[javac] 100 errors
I'm in the middle politically and my take on it is that the polarization is on the Left, not the Right or the Middle.
For instance, looking at the way the Nation or Salon refer to the President with with far more disgust and "hateful" speech than how say the National Review talks about Kerry.
And I see it in the Real World. Ask someone why they are voting for Bush and a Bush supporter will go, 'well, I don't agree with this, but I do agree with this and that and the other thing, so that's why."
Ask a Kerry supporter on the street why they are voting for Kerry and 3 out of 5 times you'll get a "Bush Lied! Bush Murdered! Bush Dodged the Draft!"
Like, Salon's headline at the moment - "Winning on fear itself, the GOP is ready to take the country even farther right."
Compared to National Review - "President Bush's win last night was a ratification of the good sense of the American public."
Don't we own your country yet? Where are you from?
To most of the middle east: We are providing the resources that you don't have that you need to stop terrorists and extremists from killing your families with carbombs and stray fire. Time for you to do something about it instead of cry. WE are making that possible. Or we can sit around and talk about it for another 12 years.
While we are busy helping you, we are failing to address major issues in our own country, so we can prevent the inaction in your countries from affecting our homeland. Maybe if someone would force politicians and leaders in other countries to take action, we wouldn't be making the mistakes; you would... instead of continuing to do nothing.
All we ask in return is that you get on your knees and KISS OUR ASSES!
They say you get what you deserve, but I don't recall knife-raping any nuns lately.
I live in Cincinnati and we don't even have electronic voting machines. Just the same old paper ballot. I talked to friends in 4 different counties and not one of them had electronic voting machines. Nothing to see here.
Not that I voted for him, but I believe Bush won Ohio fair and square. And I am glad that the Nation and Ohio will not have to deal with a long, protracted court battles over provisional ballots.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Lois, this isn't my Batman glass. - Peter
Have you been watching any of the major network channels or reading any newspapers in the last ten years?
Yeah, we need more LeftWing Propaganda Machines.
When you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness. So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.
So you're not a democracy, but you are a representative democracy? Make your mind up...
First the Red Sox win the Series, now this.
I'm from Boston, and I was thinking a very similar thing last night, only it was more along the lines of "Well, if the Red Sox could do it..."
That there is no god.
Or there is. And he enjoys torturing us.
- Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
The hard part is that, unlike most every right winger I know, I don't respond well to propaganda. If I did, I'd be republican.
Bullshit just makes me not want to vote for somebody.
In fact, the major qualm I had with Kerry was his "look at me, I'm a centrist!" attitude and avoidance of some major issues. I only had to take solace in the fact that "he has to do this, else his chances are nil", but if he got outright deceptive, as Bush was, I would have a difficult time voting for him in good conscience.
I am one of those people that did not vote between 18 - 25. This is the second time i have not voted. Do you really think it changes anything who gets elected? The corporations decide who is president. No joe shmoe could go run for president, even if he was 100% correct in everything he said. Unless he had corporations backing him, he dosent stand a chance.
Besides, my state has been Republican since the beginning of time, what use is a vote towards Kerry? No state votes will go for kerry, they all go for bush no matter what. The system is flawed. Therfore i will not participate in it. Only Bitch.
I've said it before, the popular vote means nothing in an electoral contest, because people KNOW it means nothing and vote accordingly. The voter turnout is severely depressed in "safe" states, and inflated in swing states.
If the popular vote did mean something, the numbers would be very different, especially the total voter turnout. People's votes really WOULD count everywhere.
The popular vote really is the way to go. I should point out another ethical argument for it is that it would give US Citizens not living in states the right to vote for the first time, like Puerto Rico or Guam.
While it's theoretically possible Kerry could still win Ohio, he'd have to get 160,000 out of those 175,000 provisional ballots. That's over 90%. Very unlikely. Plus there's still absentee ballots, which tend to go republican due to the military influence (although who knows about army votes this year). Conceding is the proper thing at this point. If by some chance it doesn't go Bush's way, at least we can point and laugh at his illegitimacy again, and at most have people clamoring for Kerry to claim his rightful place and (unlike Gore) he won't have the sore loser stigma.
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
The good news in all of this is that if Kerry had won, he would have been blamed for just about everything that goes wrong after January 19th. Problems in Iraq, soaring deficit, social security crisis. And there are investigations that had been pending the election that could be very uncomfortable for Bush. Personally, I think the mistakes he has made are impeachable, but you can't impeach him if he's out of office.
Of course Congress could let him get away with anything, but only time will tell.
What this election says to the world, especially Europe is a big "FUCK YOU" from America.
We will attack countries when they are a threat to us, or our self interests outweigh the possible losses.
We will continue to be the economic and military superpower of the world, and no you can not stop us
We don't need the corrupt UN, we are even getting to the point where we don't want it
We have seen the population statistics in Europe, and we will not embrace your culture of death. We want a culture of strong moral values, where things such as homosexuality and abortion are tolerated but not encouraged.
We see clearly now the bias that exists in the Media, Hollywood and the colleges and we reject their ideology of socialism and death.
We still believe America is the land of rugged independance rather than a nanny state.
We will never bow to internation pressure, or terrorists to select out president. If you think there is something you can do about it, try it. Otherwise GO FUCK YOURSELVES.
http://www.cafepress.com/kerrylost
I had a good laugh when I read this.
:-D
Clinton lied about having a blow job, and all americans said how they were really ashamed of their supreme head lying. Clinton was nearly impeached for lying while in office(!!!) - for getting a blow job with mutual consent.
And here we have another guy who lied about WMDs (nuclear weapons etc)... bombed a country into oblivion, got its thousands of innocent citizens killed - and no one even whimpered about it!!! Damn he even got re-elected !!!
Guys, you really have got the sense of truth and lies mixed up.
PS: aha, and I had another laugh seeing Cowboy george winning from Texas... whowouldhavethunk
- mritunjai
Look at what happened to the Democratic party as a whole.
- They spent more money on Kerry than on anyone else in their history. I even heard the out-spent the Republicans.
- The conservative religious people in 11 states (including Ohio & Nevada) banned gay marriages which helped get out the religious vote. These people are traditionally anti-abortion republicans. Kerry is a well know supporter of abortion.
- The Republicans gained seats in the Senate
- The Republicans gained seats in the House of Representatives.
- The Republicans hold the majority of governor's seats.
- Democratic Senator Tom Daschle was defeated. The first time a party leader was defeated in 52 years.
- The Democratic party spent a good deal of time in court in keeping Nader off of the ballot in some states. If you were a Nader supporting Democrat it was a tough pill to swallow.
The Democratic party was hit hard in this election.
It will be interesting to see what the restructuring effort will be.
I was cruising factcheck.org looking at at the proof that things like "flip-flopping", and banning certain shotguns were complete and utter lies and lamenting that most people would never have a clue how utterly decieved they were. I was thinking that I wished there was some well known organizations where people could go that they could trust to call the lies.
Then I realized there was already supposed to be someone doing that, the %&#@ing media!!!
How on earth can the media justify the job they did, both campaigns made blatant lies in their advertising and never was anything but a one line mention that it wasn't completely accurate. There was direct evidence to easily contradict most of that stuff and the mainstream media didn't touch it, all they did was recycle sound bites from the campaigns which doesn't sort out anything because everyone knows both sides lie through their teeth because the media doesn't call anyone on it!!!
I'm still by the number of people who were taken in by Bush but I think the media hold the blame for allowing those people to decieve themselves so easily
I stole this Sig
Kerry was a BS artist, and a demagogue to boot. While I don't like Bush, that's not enough of a reason for me to vote for a BS artist. At least Bush promotes Tort reform and opposes gay "marriage". There's no way in heck I'll tell to my son that "being gay is OK" and there's no way in heck I'll ever approve of gay adoptions. Economy will recover sooner or later on its own, but if they pass laws attacking the very basis of the society (the Family) everything will be screwed up forever.
But to do all this we need a LEFTwing propaganda machine.
Oh. You mean something other than the mass media?
I know I speak for half of us when I say: "AAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOooooooonooonooonoooooooo*weepweepmoanm oangnashgnashsobsob*" ...I'm in no particular mood to be articulate about it because the scope of my disagreements with the radial right is just so dizzying, I can't fathom another 4 years... a WORSE 4 years omg the house and senate are totally within their control, no balance of power this time.. it just makes me ill. I was ill last election (I was in Florida) knowing we'd somehow end up in Iraq (am I psychic?), but this time it's our civil liberties that I'm deathly afraid for. Gays, abortion, the war, these are all very important issues, but none are as important to me as the age-old checks-and-balances and basic freedoms designed into our republic: not just the problems at hand--but the governmental processes we leave future generations to solve the issues of THEIR day too.
I read a lot of people thinking/joking about going to Canada... it's definetly tempting. I'm not quite ready to stop being an American patriot yet, but if these 4 years go as I expect them to, I might.
We who cared so much for "not Bush" have a huge responsibility over these next 4 years. Since there is no balance of power spead accross the Presidency, Senate, or House, we must do the impossable and retain this focus near-constantly as if the next election were 4 years long. Write your congresspeople CONSTANTLY. Pay attention to their voting records and major legislation (and please, read deeper than the name of the bill). Join a website that serves issue-alerts to suit your politics (I personally get alerts from moveOn, the ACLU and the EFF, maybe about half of which I act on and write my Congresspeople--all three have webportals that make it about a 3-click 2 minute operation)
The silver lining to this election is thus: we've had a HUGE turnout, and all the right groups, the groups people have been struggling to motivate for generations, came out in-force. Regarless of who wins in the process, these groups have stood up and said "You had better cater to our opinion, we're a voting force now!". I'd be curious to see if there'll be any statistical corrolation between the number and scope of curfew laws as impacted by the young voter turnout; same for black issues.
So brace yourself everybody, it's going to be a hard 4 years, and there's nobody to keep Bush in check this time but us.
Lastly, a thought about majority rule: If 53% of a kindergarten class votes to play kickball every day at recess, and 47% vote 4-square, is the fair solution to always play kickball, or to merely play kickball more often than 4-square?
"Regarding the terrorists, yes they actually do the attacks, and they are wrong to do so, but..."
And that girl that got raped? Her fault for leaving the house alone without her burka on.
The democrats need to run more candidates who are Nascar drivers and sport mullets.
I for one will be sending a bag of Pretzels to congratulate him.
My other SIG is a Sauer.
It's funny that your side loses, and you think, well, obviously we haven't been fighting nearly dirty enough. Guess I gotta step it up a notch!
After such a tremendous and consistent loss, I think it's funny there's no consideration as to wether your message, platform, and candidates are fundamentally flawed. You lost the presidency, house, and senate seats, and have the gall to blame the citizens for your failure, instead of considering what's wrong with you.
Oh yeah, as a Bush voter, you folks have been fighting tooth and nail for the past year and half, and have had most of the media on your side too.
You went negative all the time, but couldn't find a charge that stuck. Republicans already have their share of people spouting garbage & conspiracy theories. We've certainly had to put up with plenty from the left.
Your little double-agent-political-James-Bond games would just be a collosal waste of your time.
Using every single tactic in the infamous 'Karl Rove playbook' still won't win you a damn thing if you have no substance to sell to the American People.
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
Alot of organizations were running around registering people to vote. I was one of them, and even though we did it under the name of a non-partisan cause, we all knew that it was for the benefit of the Democrats. Most of us went around to the lowest voter turnout areas, which happened to usually be the more poorer sections of cities. We would register people to vote, and not ask them who they're going to vote for. But in the back of our heads, our thinking was that these people would be voting for the left wing choice...because most of them either were pissed off about the current situation and needed some convincing that their vote makes a difference, or another big reason was that they were a felon at one point in their lives and they had no idea that they can vote if they are off paper. Higher taxes are a pain for middle or upper class, but social services are a great benefit for the lower class, therefore if we made it easy for these people to vote, we thought they would be voting for Kerry.
This election had unprecedent voter turnout, so we succeeded in getting people out to vote! However, Bush beat Kerry better than he beat Gore. He even won the popular vote this time. So it seems that these people we were registering...well most of them chose Bush. The democratic party really needs to rethink their strategy, because that was a huge part of it.
My little theory, and this seems a little crude, is that if one opponent is using fear to win, well I don't think you can fight that with something else. I think you need to use that also, because the top voting issue was probably security. And if an opponent is using hatemongering tactics, you must do that same. You can't be nice and win in politics.
-- Thou hast strayed far from the path of the Avatar.
2a) Pick a Marine, Army, Air Force, Navy or Coast Guard recruiting station. Note: You don't have to be a US citizen.
-OR-
1b) Open your college campus map
2b) Pick a Marine, Army, Air Force, Navy or Coast Guard ROTC unit. Note: You do have to be a US citizen.
3) Volunteer for your military service of choice.
4) Honorably serve a term of service. (If you want to minimize your chances of combat, get into a position that is too valuable to risk on the battlefield, like Intel, program management or a medical field. Even the chaplains have a nonzero chance of seeing battle, although they can't fight without giving up their protected status.)
You now cannot be drafted, and you are not a criminal. You will also develop a thorough dislike of the concept of the draft from the other angle: drafting unwilling people into your very fine unit will just drag you down and probably get you killed.
Alternatively, if your state has an organized militia (NOT the State Guard or National Guard), it is under the command of your state governor, and cannot operate outside of the state without his direct orders. It cannot be called up by federal orders, like Guard units can. Draft-dodgers, join that, and I think you're have a very good chance of not being sent anywhere.
Now get this straight, tinfoil hat wearers: The military doesn't want a draft. More specifically, the military doesn't want the draftees. The only people who voted for the draft out of the entire House were two Democrats, and the Democrat sponsor of the bill wouldn't even vote for his own bill. There is not going to be a draft for the forseeable future because nobody want it.
You are free to mooch off the freedom that someone else has secured for you without any effort on your own part. The least you can do is thank a veteran, ingrate. They and their comrades paid in sweat and blood for what you take for granted.
im 18, and i bitched about kerry
so i voted for bush.
honestly not enough people that are my age deserve to vote, they watch MTV and do what they say. They voted for kerry not because they understand but because they just didnt like bush and had no alternitave.
Not only is the state-centric electoral process still valid because of the reasons everyone else is mentioning (The framers of the Constitution wanted the states to be able to determine the presidency, etc.), but even "in this day of information technology" we can't get old-fashioned vote-counting right, we can't get electronic voting right, we can't do a lot of things right. Anchors last night were talking about how even after 2000, Florida probably was in worse shape to add up their votes this time around than they were 4 years ago.
Even if Information Technology *could* make the electoral college obsolete (it can't, because IT isn't the reason for needing it to begin with, it's there for political purposes, not technical) we are definitely not to the point where IT could even make it obsolete technically.
So now that it's said and done, what are we to do? It looks like the majority of people here are anti-Bush and were hoping for a Kerry win. That even applies (possibly even more so) to those not living within the US.
;o)
So what should/could we do? Sure, fleeing to Canada is an option, but after reading some comments that is a selfish move - and something which is not helping the rest of the planet from W's path of destruction.
Any ideas?
Your tax money is being wasted because you can't differentiate between a pointless war and a football game. Joke's on you, pal.
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80% of the world hates the United States
Invading Iraq will cost 10's of thousands of US solders lives
George W Bush has a low IQ
Kerry will win by a landslide
What will you say next!
Hypothetical question:
What were to happen if a candidate ran with one main promise: cut in half (or beter) taxes for anybody who makes _less_ than $250,000 a year, making up the difference by a small increase to people who make more (is a 5% increase enough? 3%? 1%?).
The rates would be calculated so that the government will be able to offer the same or better services to citizens.
Such a scheme would benefit at least 95% of tax payers. Based on the claim that most people vote first of all by personal finance, such a candidate should have an easy job, no?
Nebraska voter here. As I very well know my state would not vote Democrat, I started to wonder why this is. Or why this country has been so strongly divided. I had a long conversation with my Grandma last night, and it showed a lot of insight.
Nearly every arguement she used had to do with religion or something the TV had told her. She was still hanging on to ideas that Iraq collaborated with Al-Queda and that there could still be WMDs.
And she's not even really a Fox watcher. When I mentioned the 100,000 dead civilians in Iraq, she still refused to believe that they were not happy that we came in, and that the only ones who didn't want us there were the "radicals".
My roommies on the other hand, had different reasons. They are all very intellectual and logical thinkers, but they also share a common trait: They're racist biggots and classic examples of upper-middle class white people who fear change. I know a lot of that has to do with upbringing, but I was raised in a Republican household, and I turned out completely different. I guess there's a lot there to ponder.
What really confuses me is how, even with all the grassroots campaigns, like the Rock Against Bush tour, the big names openly speaking out against Bush, and even with all the hard evidence on the news where the mistakes speak for themselves (Nope, no WMDs here), and even such a huge voter turnout, that it still wasn't enough.
It's really kind of depressing when you think about it. Call me a sore loser, but when you give it your all and it isn't good enough, you're still a loser. I'm going to be depressed for about 4 years.
Many of us are just as shocked and disappointed as you are. I and 55,124,615 of my closest friends did our best to elect a non-madman, but we ultimately failed to an administration that invaded a country without cause, "lost" $2 billion to Halliburton, and had enough political capital left over to win a second term on a campaign targeted exclusively at their own base.
Before 2000, I was a conservative Republican. I saw the need in that election to put the country ahead of my own party and voted Libertarian. This time, I voted for Kerry. I don't love the Democratic party, but the dangerous state of events in our country right now calls for any plausible opposition, even if it comes from people I disagree with on most issues.
What we've seen here is the final defeat in a long war of ideas that liberals have been steadily losing since 1988. We need to reinvent opposition to the current government along new lines of political thought. I plan on working with my Democrat friends to try to develop that opposition. It will take time, but please remember that there are many of us who aren't happy with the way things are over here and are doing everything we can to fix it.
As I'm typing this, you can listen to Kerry speak live over at NPR. They'll probably have a stream of the speech after it's finished, too.
There is a spellbook here; eat it? [ynq]
It is the vote differential that matters not the raw +votes... So even with all your cheery assumptions it would be ~50k votes gained not 100k votes gained. Which would be 80k short...
((135k*110%)*67%) - ((135k*110%)*33%) = vote differential
My favorite was on a button I saw at Bumbershoot:
:(
-------------------
Vote no CARB in 2004.
No Cheney
No Ashcroft
No Rumsfeld
No Bush
and definitely no Rice!
-------------------
I guess it seems the Atkins fad died down before the election
The election is over
;)
/. skews left, I think we'll need to get a head start on memorizing it :(
The results are known
The will of the people
has clearly been shown!
So let's forget our quarrels
And show by good deed
That we'll give our new leaders
All the help that they need
Let's let bygones be bygones
And let bitterness pass
I'll hug your Elephant
And you kiss my...Donkey!
In all seriousness...can somebody post the text of that Bush loyalty oath? Since
I hereby declare today a worldwide day of mourning. The American voters have brought shame on their once-great country.
Look, most smart people in the US are pissed, but saying stuff like this is really unconstructive. All you're going to do is start a flame war. Yes, we elected an idiot. Most of us are pissed about it. But that doesn't mean we're going to take your insults lying down, okay? We're still Americans, and we're still going to defend ourselves. He might be a moron, but he's our moron, and just like a retarded little brother, we're going to defend him against outsiders no matter how much he drools on our favorite toys. So let's all act like adults here, and not turn this into a name-calling match.
Eagles may fly, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
There was a _reason_ the electoral college came into being: so that populous states would not "drown" out the less populous ones. It had nothing to do with "information technology".
I agree with you wholeheartedly. If anyone disagrees with this statement, all you have to do is ask yourself this: is the direction of mob mentality always the correct choice? In urban settings, you definitely run the risk of mob mentality and end up voting for the person less congruent with your views. I.e. you vote for the more popular person in that locality for fear of not conforming with everyone around you. At the risk of sounding like a fundamentalist, evidence for this goes back to biblical times--who did the mob cry for when asked to decide between releasing Jesus and Barabbas (a murderer)?. I'm sure there's hundreds of other examples in modern day.
Linux at home
Well, drinking Molson, Labatt, etc... usually make you dislike beer :)
:P
Boreale, Unibroue, Belle Gueule, St-Ambroise, Etc... are all quite good beer, and if you want quality beer just come to your local brewery.
The best beer I've ever tasted are from DDC which has the top-3 best beer on ratebeer.com and has had, i think, the best imperial stout ever!
True, but...
Keep in mind that you can't unilaterally renounce your citizenship and be done with it. The Dept of State has to accept that renouncement. It is illegal to renounce citizenship for the purpose of evading taxes. If there's even a hint of that in your motivation, State will refuse. How will they know? It might come out in the interview. Renouncing your citizenship is something you have to do in person and there will be questions. Lots of them.
Yup, Iran is pleased with this outcome...
Anybody else?
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
Please stop trying to claim that the above people are conservatives. They are not. They are the American version of the Taliban.
You make statements like this, and wonder why you and your kind are not taken seriosly by the majority of the public?
Go read some stories about how the Taliban ran Afgahnistan. Read about what they did to women. Read about how they beat men on the street for not having long enough beards and stoned women for getting raped. Read about the true face of evil. Saddam's regime would be a primer on this too.
Then come back here and tell me that the millions of YOUR COUNTRYMEN, some of which you know, are the same as the Taliban.
You keep losing because there's something clearly wrong with you, not the American people. You're welcome to keep denying your faults, as it will just lead to increasingly larger margins of victory for republicans.
Then maybe, one day, when the democratic party has drowned itself in a 5 gallon bucket it refused to pull its head out of, a new party can rise to counter the real faults of the republican party (which are quite different than what you imagine.)
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
I'm a Canadian who works in the US, and I'm retired military to boot, so I've been following this election with some interest. Here's my take.
The Democatic Party nominated THE single least electable canditate they could have laid their hands on.
You could have had General Clark - impeccable personal integrity, proven leadership ability (he ran NATO fer crissakes!) super handle on foreign policy - can you imagine Bush debating him? And no Senate voting record to dog him around.
You could have had Howard Dean, and gone for the young rockstar angle. New and hip vs old-skool and scary. Look at Illinois for how effective that can be.
You could have even had Al Sharpton and gone for pure shock and entertainment value.
Instead, you wound up with the Democratic version of your opponent - old-skool, big money, old boys club, pork-barrel, professional weasel-featured politician.
You made an election that _should_ have been a simple decision between good and evil into a choice between the lesser of two evils. What the HELL kind of strategy is "our guy may suck, but he sucks less"?
The American public is CRYING out for simple, strong, effective, and HONEST leadership. You actually sucker a decent man into the job, and you'll carry the country in a landslide. What the HELL were you thinking when you let Kerry get nominated?
My advice to you and your fellow confused and befuddled Democrats is to get active in the internal politics of your own party, and to work like mad to make sure the next guy you present to the electorate actually stands a chance at being elected.
DG
Want to learn about race cars? Read my Book
Certainly not to defend Bush or anything -- I'm curious how you can use the words 'Progressive' and 'Atlas Shrugged' in the same post...
If I was that drunk, I would have remembered it -- H. Simpson
You failed to recognize the opportunity to bring these people into your camp, which would have been quite a feat considering many of the people in your camp are hippies that do not bathe
:) Not that I'm on your side necessarily. I'm no democrat but I tend to lean left and most certainly did NOT vote for Bush.
Hahaha.... that made me laugh out loud
Joseph?
Looking forward to $3.00/gallon gas prices and losing my job....
"I think you know what I'm talkin' about, Mr. President; We're gonna kill us a mummy!" - Bruce Campbell as Elvis Presley
It's called EUROPE.
We don't need every country in the world to devolve into a social welfare state.
My Linux Command of the Day site : LCOD
A second question is who will run in 2008 for the republicans? It ain't gonna be Cheney, that's for sure. I wouldn't put it past them to try to run Bush again, or another Bush.
Yeah, whatever happened to Neil?
(Christ, I hope I'm joking.)
--saint
".. So it is over, and without a lot of extra fuss .." :o You call this not a lot of fuss ?
...
01. Do nothing after repeated warnings about attacks on major US sites using passenger jets. (except Ashcroft took to flying private).
02. Be so influenced by the Israeli lobby as to allow the Palestinian situation to escalate out of all control. The backlash against this being one of the prime motivators of the 9/11 and other terrorists.
03. Allow al-Qaeda/the freedom fighters formerly known as the Mujahideen to take root in Afghanistan. This group having been formed out of the remnants of groups created and financed by Bin Laden at the behest of the CIA.
04. In the immediate aftermath of the 9/11 attack allow Bin Ladens family to *fly* out of the US unquestioned.
05. Holding back US troops to allow Bin Laden to escape from his holdout on the Pakistan border. If captured he might have some embarrassing facts to disclose.
06. Take a middle eastern dictatorship (Iraq) and overthrow its ruler. In the process disbanded its highly trained army and allow them to escape with most of their weapons intact. The remnants of which later joined forces with radical Islamic fundamentalists forming the bulk of the current Guerilla army. Making large parts of Iraq no go areas for US troops. Almost a year after the so called 'ceasefire'.
07. Incidentally whilst Heusen was in power and still an asset of the CIA it was his job to suppress the 'fundamentalists'. And after the first Gulf war he was totally suppressed and *no* external threat to anyone. He still could stifle the fundamentalists. So removing him has actually created a state that supports terrorism.
08. Arbitrarily dismiss and ignore the views of the USAs own allies to such an extent that *no* country apart from the UK went into Iraq with it. Chiefly because Tony Blain had no choice. The rest he bribed with contracts or getting their application to join the EU speeded up.
09. In the process Bush did something the USSR could never achieve trough out WW11, the Warsaw Pact, the Cold war, the Cuban missile crises and the breakup of the Soviet Union. He split NATO in two. He couldn't have done better if he was Putins foreign minister.
10. Provoked North Korea and Iran into going Nuclear. Something they had no incentive in doing until his famous axis of evil speech.
11. Reintroduced a new Nuclear arms race with his bunker-busting bombs and a re-launched starwars. A plan to put nuclear weapons into space.
Lastly he's refused to sign the Kioto agreement. Signed over large tracts of Alaska to the Oil companies rescinded environmental legislation and criminalised environmental and political activists.
Not bad for a first four years
Why in the hell is it that people's main argument against gay marriage is "think of the children?" Gays cannot reproduce. They cannot have children of their own, and as I understand it, the government is still too freaked out to allow them to adopt.
But anyway, even if they could have kids, people say that kids can't grow up without both a mother and a father. I think that anyone who thinks that kids can mature properly with their only adult social contacts being thier parents is an idiot. Kids need to grow up around many different people, and even in a gay marriage, they'd still be around pleanty of men and women.
Personally, I would simply advocate critical thinking be a class taught in schools.
People don't need to be more left or more right wing; they need to be able to make intelligent, informed, and correct decisions. If pandering slanderous bullcrap didn't work, people would have to resort to actual discourse.
I'm running for school board to try to help this path.
Whatever blunders Bush makes now will not only reflect on him or his cronies anymore, but on all those people who voted for him.
A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver.
The statement that Bush won more votes than anyone in history is just showing a statistic. It's not saying that he won by a larger margin than everyone else in history, just that he got more raw votes than anyone. I don't think that's hard to understand, but for some reason, so many anti-Bush people just can't let that statement go without saying why it's "wrong" or "misleading".
If you want misleading, watch Farenheit 9/11.
I don't mind comments like these. You concede a valid point, and express your opinions as what they are: beliefs that you have.
What I do mind, however, and what the parent tried to bring up (before he was modded down in a partisan-fueled exercise in geek power) is that moderations purely based on beliefs of the moderators go against the spirit of fair moderation. If it's insightful/informative/etc but it's from an opposing viewpoint and it bothers you that an intelligent argument could be written by someone who dares to disagree with you, just leave it alone. Someone more mature would be capable of appreciating its insight and would moderate it accordingly regardless of whether or not he agreed with it.
Then again, this is slashdot, where opinionated egos spurned everywhere else in society reign supreme and I probably should be mocked as an idiot for believing that fair moderation could be accomplished in a forum like this.
aack http://www.anotherfouryears.com/
Robby Russell
PLANET ARGON
Robby on Rails
In case anyone finds it of use, here is a site with history of the electoral college.
Personally, I thought the EC was complete bunk until I read through some of the more interesting bits on the reasons why. Not that I am now in complete agreement, but there is some sense to it.
"I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't it." -Groucho Marx
At least based on one interpretation of Bin Laden's last video taped speech.
How is this for a target?
I can say, bring it on, too.
On a more serious tone, I really hope that the vicious attacks that occured over the course of this campaign can be left alone now. In 2008, there will be a new President, regardless of what Bush does now, and I don't think it will be Dick Cheeny either... I don't think the VP will even run, but who knows.
I also hope that this shows clearly to Al-Queida that the USA will not be intimidated by threats. I would also like to be a bug on the wall of the FBI anti-terrorism center to see what was done to keep this election incident-free. That there wasn't even a single bomb or even mugging at any polling locations shows just how powerless Al-Queida has become. I mean, for the state of Utah alone (from the link above) there were almost 2,000 different places they could have targeted, and Utah is a very small state. And most of these voting places didn't even have a police officer present, much less any other security at all.
You are correct, Europe and the US have seperated ideologically. And as you state, "respect" is in short supply. But, rather than "whine" about how wrong the "others" are, why not try to gain some fundemental understanding of why people think the way they do. Far too many people in this country ( USA) and across the world get caught up in this "Us" versus "Them" mentality without even stopping to debate the real issues at hand. I had hoped that slashdot's political section would be a place for such a dialog to take place, but it seems that we get the same crud here as everywhere else.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
Americans may not be dumb, but a large percentage of them are surely living under a rock! And that's certainly not the fault of "liberal" Democrats.
You didn't actually READ my comment, did you?
You can cherry pick particular issues all you want, but the fact remains there's something fundamentally wrong with the democrats, and like you, they can't even begin to fathom what it is.
They will continue to lose by ever more embarassing margins until the party comes to terms with it's faults.
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
According to this, , 75% of Bush supporters believe Iraq was providing substantial support to al Qaeda (and 20% believe Saddam was directly involved in 9/11, though another study puts that at 56%). 72% of Bush supporters believe Iraq had WMD or a program to develop them, 72% believe Bush supports the treaty banning landmines. The list goes on. None of these beliefs are correct, but when you can successfully trick people into believing these things, you can probably trick them into voting for Bush too.
So Mr. Kerry: why the long face?
You know, something just hit me.
The electoral system in the US is about 2 or 3 centuries old. Compare with a country which just elected its first president democratically: Mexico.
Our current electoral system is less than 50 years (60 at most) old, but the latest changes are less than 10 years old.
These changes include an impartial instance where controversies are handled: The Electoral Federal Institute (IFE). These guys regulate the amount of money used in campaigns, who can be chosen as candidate, etc.
Litigations are handled by the (also impartial) Supreme Court's Electoral Tribunal.
Elector ID's have photograph, and all the votes are counted manually. There are independent citizen volunteers who aid in the revision of the vote counting, and all parties have someone representative who is part of the revision team. It's these representatives who impugnate against anything suspicious, and in certain circumstances, all the votes for a certain ballot are declared null.
That's not much of a problem because the ballots are distributed all over the city. (I live in Mexico city. It IS crowded, trust me). No big buildings where people get in line 8-hours to vote. Instead, the ballot posts are installed in high schools, or (smal) public libraries.
The voting system is easy to understand: You just grab a crayon and mark an "X" over who you want to win. (Their picture is printed on the sheet, and their name is below the picture). If you want to declare a null vote, you just mark an X over the whole sheet.
You're given 5 or 6 sheets, depending on what Office the candidates postulate for, and deposit them in different ballots.
After you're voted, your electoral ID is marked as "voted" for this year, and your thumb is marked with a special biological dye. This prevents you from voting twice.
I may have to stress that this whole system was designed by the opposing parties to prevent extremely old forms of electoral fraud used by the official party (PRI), which were part of the everyday political life of our country (People who voted many times, "pregnant" ballots which were already full before the official election time started, etc) since 70 years ago.
So the new electoral system is practically bullet-proof, and this allowed Vicente Fox to be the first president coming from an opposition party.
The system also allows multiple parties to compete for a certain Office, and because they use popular vote (instead of electoral votes, aka WTF?), a party can be allowed to remain registered if its total votes are greater than a certain percentage.
The mexican electoral system may have its flaws, but at least it makes me proud of not being an american.
Now if some person in the US put some of these ideas into practice... *sigh*
While it's true that part of the reason the electoral college exists was to insure that each state was considered by the presidential candidates, another very important reason had to do with the state of political parties and mass communication at the time the constitution was written.
When the concept of the electoral college was created there were no political parties. They really didn't enter into the calculations of the founding fathers. Considering the size of the United States and the lack of any real means of communicating with the masses of people, it was thought necessary to have some means of having informed representatives of the people decide which candidate represented their local interests. Basically, the founders felt that the average person wasn't well enough informed to make a decision as to who should be president. Electors were supposed to get together and DEBATE. Not be a rubber stamp.
Political parties really altered the situation. A candidate, through his party organzation, could inform the masses of his platform.
The current state of politics in the US all but insures that the electoral college is an effective barrier to any third party candidate. The best they can hope for is to be a spoiler. The electoral college as it's currently implemented is a bad system that serves the two major parties better than it does people to the US.
Welcome to another 4 years of being the Big Bad Guy! Here's to hoping Bush will rest thoroughly on his laurels, instead of trying to "impress" the world with his cowboy attitude. But I guess that's too much to hope for.
I think you've got a typo there, right around "That considered, the future oppinion of Bush could get better or worse."
/. today"
I believe that the correct spelling is "That considered, future opinions of Bush will be considerably worse than the stuff we're seeing on
I had a conversation with a friend at lunch during which I said "Look on the bright side...after this, GWB can never serve as US President again". Her reply: "...at least not until he amends the Constitution to fix that little loophole."
"Linux doesn't exist. Everyone knows Linux is an unlicensed version of Unix"- Kieren O'Shaughnessy
All this time I thought that most Americans were stupid.
It appears it's only just over half.
Good thing I'm not in high-tech, though.
--Cpt. Chaos
There is something strange about President Bush these days, especially since the election. It's disquieting the way he has had the Secret Service don red robes whenever they follow him around. Personally I think he takes himself too seriously - probably a result of the Senate voting to give him emergency powers in 2002. Last week I was remarking on how Senator Jarjar from Texas really shouldn't have taken us in that direction, but then I looked it up last week, and it turns out that the "senator" actually held no political office at all, and was really just an assistant to the real senator, who was absent during that session. And I don't think it's any coincidence that he was from the same state as the president.
What I really want to know is this: the clone troopers in Iraq have proven to be invaluable to us, but no one is asking who placed the original order for them, years before we actually needed them.
Federalist #68
by Alexander Hamilton
Published March 14, 1788
The mode of appointment of the Chief Magistrate of the United States is almost the only part of the system, of any consequence, which has escaped without severe censure, or which has received the slightest mark of approbation from its opponents. The most plausible of these, who has appeared in print, has even deigned to admit that the election of the President is pretty well guarded. I venture somewhat further, and hesitate not to affirm, that if the manner of it be not perfect, it is at least excellent. It unites in an eminent degree all the advantages, the union of which was to be wished for.
It was desirable that the sense of the people should operate in the choice of the person to whom so important a trust was to be confided. This end will be answered by committing the right of making it, not to any preestablished body, but to men chosen by the people for the special purpose, and at the particular conjuncture.
It was equally desirable, that the immediate election should be made by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice. A small number of persons, selected by their fellow-citizens from the general mass, will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations.
It was also peculiarly desirable to afford as little opportunity as possible to tumult and disorder. This evil was not least to be dreaded in the election of a magistrate, who was to have so important an agency in the administration of the government as the President of the United States. But the precautions which have been so happily concerted in the system under consideration, promise an effectual security against this mischief. The choice of SEVERAL, to form an intermediate body of electors, will be much less apt to convulse the community with any extraordinary or violent movements, than the choice of ONE who was himself to be the final object of the public wishes. And as the electors, chosen in each State, are to assemble and vote in the State in which they are chosen, this detached and divided situation will expose them much less to heats and ferments, which might be communicated from them to the people, than if they were all to be convened at one time, in one place.
Nothing was more to be desired than that every practicable obstacle should be opposed to cabal, intrigue, and corruption. These most deadly adversaries of republican government might naturally have been expected to make their approaches from more than one querter, but chiefly from the desire in foreign powers to gain an improper ascendant in our councils. How could they better gratify this, than by raising a creature of their own to the chief magistracy of the Union? But the convention have guarded against all danger of this sort, with the most provident and judicious attention. They have not made the appointment of the President to depend on any preexisting bodies of men, who might be tampered with beforehand to prostitute their votes; but they have referred it in the first instance to an immediate act of the people of America, to be exerted in the choice of persons for the temporary and sole purpose of making the appointment. And they have excluded from eligibility to this trust, all those who from situation might be suspected of too great devotion to the President in office. No senator, representative, or other person holding a place of trust or profit under the United States, can be of the numbers of the electors. Thus without corrupting the body of the people, the immediate agents in the election will at least enter upon the task free from any sinister bias. Their transient existence, and their detached situation, already taken notice of, afford a satisfactory prospect of their continuing so, to the conclusion of it. The business of cor
I prefer to stay and know that my tax dollars are going directly to Halliburton. I wonder how many more soldiers are going die until those coffers are full? Wait, what am I saying?! Their coffers are *never* full. :-P
I think this is an interesting point, and would mod it up myself if I had any points to give.
Particularly, I'd like to hear if other viewpoints about that fact....
"What do you think?" "I think 'What, do you think?!'"
Go Bush, i told you all he would win, kerry sucks, he's ugly, stupid, and gives me and my wife the creeps. His wife loves ketsup a little too much, and probably has a flask full of 57 sause. but that's just my two cents, and i'm looking forward to the next 4 years with bush, and many more raises cause he's my boss's boss's boss's boss's boss's boss's boss's boss's boss's boss's boss's boss!!! and i like him cause we both like baseball, and know what lambeau field is.
President Bush Supporter
I'm not one to complain about the electoral college or popular vote. The EC, more or less, works. However it could stand a spit shine in some places. Redistricting is a fairly shady practice, some states still have electoral representation based upon outdated demographics, and many people don't feel represented in states with a large number of electors.
... and, oddly enough, the previous #2 spot was held by Gore with 51+ million.
But as for " Bush got more votes than any American in history" That may be true, but to keep this in perspective, he also received more votes of opposition then anyone running for the Presidency. Populations increase and election turn out was high. Technically both candidates received more votes then any other candidate running for the Presidency... Bush with 58+ million and Kerry with 55+million.
And to post some random useless information... the previous #1 sport was held by Regan with 54+ million
http://uselectionatlas.org/USPRESIDENT/
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
As someone who was born in Louisiana ('78), and raised in downstate Illinois ('86-'00), I have to tell you that you are decribing the south, not the midwest.
Look at Illinois, Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin. There is sanity parts of the midwest.
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
then
Now
I do believe that we are a nation extremely divided, so much so that I present the above graphs as a scary reality of the current situation. I have no idea of how to resolve it but, it is truly scary when you look at the graphs and their striking similarities. It is again like two nations with two different philosophies coexisting under a strained bond that neither pleases nor comforts either populous.
I personally think Bush holds the best interest for me and my family but it does not seem that it is the case for the other side of the nation, which I feel very badly for. It was a little more than 100 years ago that a similar division happened and my family was on the loosing end of the deal. In which they felt they had to defend their rights as states as well as repeal what they felt was unjust taxation on the agricultural industry. In the end they decided that their was no other solution than to take up arms against their sister states to rectify their grievances. It is very scary how similar the course has taken. If you replace weapons of mass destruction for heavy taxation and the war on terror for states rights then you have the prevailing cause for the turmoil. Then if you look at history and find that all leaders try to find a moral cause for their war to rally support from the people and use that to supplant slavery with democracy then you could have the following two sentences:
Abraham Lincoln pursued the War Between the States as the southern states felt that there was no rectification for the taxation and states rights issues. He latter formulated that freeing slavery would win him moral support for his cause.
George Bush pursued the war on terror as rouge states felt that there was no rectification for the destruction of their weapons of mass destruction and harboring terrorists. He latter formulated that freeing Arabs would win him moral support for his cause.
I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.
I voted for the guy, but he did not do a good job of making a case that he had a plan. Alot of it was I would do that better, well how? I mean he did a poor job of articulating his overall strategy and he still came close to winning.
I think this says more about Bushes weakness than Kerrys strength. A Bill Clinton in his prime would've eaten Bush for lunch.
So Long and Thanks for all the Fish.
In case no one else has said it, I think we should all congratulate Bush on winning his first Presidential election.
rewriting history since 2109
Yep, that sums up the Bush Administration's attitude. Just remember it only works as long as people are buying it. Keep an eye on that falling Dollar and rising Euro, ok?
America is strong because it's rich. It's rich because money flows into it. Money flows into it because people see opportunity.
If the international community starts to worry about the opportunities the US offers, the money goes elsewhere. Rattling your sabre (or in the US case aircraft carrier) doesn't have any effect on that. Money dries up. Deficit spirals. No money for weapons. America is now weak.
It all starts with the attitude, and attitude is what got GWB re-elected.
HBH> Well, you're better off than me. I still gotta learn to speak Canadian.
the 'gotta' part is excused for being colloquial - but if you want to speak like a Canadian, you have to learn better english: "Well, you're better off than -I am-". Stop using 'me' in inappropriate places.
While this will at least save us from hordes of lawyers swarming around constant recounts, it won't save us from any Michael Moore crapumentaries.
The part I find interesting is that the networks were ready to call Colorado for bush already fairly early last night. Bush is currently up by about 120,000 votes in Colorado (as of 12:00pm Nov 3rd) but Boulder county, one of the states largest heavily Democratic counties (over 300,000 people, not sure how many registered voters) has only reported 5% of its precincts vote so far. At the earliest they won't be done counting the regular ballots until this evening, after which there will still be early voting, provisional ballots, absentee ballots, etc. So while I'm not expecting Colorado to switch sides, (120,000 votes is a decent margin to overcome for a 300,000 person county- the Boulder precincts that have reported so far are about 2-1 for Kerry) if it does happen, Bush drops back below 270, even with Ohio, and we would be waiting on Iowa and New Mexico....
If I don't put anything here, will anyone recognize me anymore?
And when we were having a reasonable discussion, too.
Whether Bush actually got all of those votes or had some help from Diebold, either way it's a shitty day in American history.
Where's no clothes.
Get up!
You whine so much that the LEFT wing propaganda machine doesn't have a voice.
BULLSHIT!!! Sorry the BS alarm has gone off!
Let me see what LEFT propaganda machines are out there. Hmm. Let me see. CNN, CBS, NYTimes, LATimes, Newsweek to name a few top media outlets.
Yes they are. CNN has posted stories with anti-bush headlines that didn't even pertain to him. I've seen it over and over again. CBS has long sat in the lap of the liberals and democrats.
You are so blinded on what you think is not LEFT propoganda that you don't see it for what it is
Cuz Arnie wasn't born in the US, but I'm sure they're willing to do it.
Btw, you might want to tell your friend that the Gipper *was* a primate, as are all of us. Much as Bush's supporters don't want to admit it.
If this is representive of the citizens of the United States, I pray for us all.
http://www.tshirthell.com/store/product.php?pro
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
What he was referring to, albeit rather poorly, is this odd idea called "cause and effect." That is, actions cause reactions, and thus that terrorists' actions are in part (if not majorly) determined by the world in which they live. The more injustice seen by muslims around the world, the more they will consider becoming terrorists, and the more resources a terrorist organization will have. More resources mean more likelihood of a successful attack. Is this not logical?
Of course, there's the definition of 'injustice', which is somewhat relative, but I'll get to that later.
Draft? Hate to tell you this, but the draft was the democrats idea, and now it's certainly not going to come to pass.
This is a mindless jab at the Democrats. Kerry also refuted a draft, so your contention here is just as justified as the one you're responding to (that GWB/Rep = draft).
The middle east has been propetually in conflict. We've now established two democracies (well, probably 1.5 so far). The region used to only have death. Now it has both death and hope.
And what if China thought the US becoming communist would significantly reduce the amount of conflict in the world, and thus invaded us - and won? Would that be 'just' or an 'injustice'? It certainly would have been a justified war in the eyes of the supporters of communism, just as installing democracies around the world is seen as justified by - surprise - democracies! But I have a feeling Americans would feel that it was actually an injustice done to them. So what you see as a 'just' and necessary overthrowing of a tyrant government, most other people see as empire trying to expand it's own reach and violently forcing its ways upon people who never even asked for help. So for you America is spreading 'hope', but to the people who feel they're being occupied, it's spreading 'oppresion'. Or, as someone in that region might say, 'more of the same'.
Forcing your ideologies on other people is based on a belief that your ideology is right for everyone - including those who you don't understand or identify with. You talk like you're intimately familiar with matters of the Middle East, and know what's best for everyone there, yet if you're like most people I've talked to, you've never been there and know little more than what you read in the papers. I'd be happy for you to prove me wrong, of course. And the ironic part is that you later go on to say that the rest of the world doesn't know what's right for America! (But we do, in fact, know what's right for the rest of the world, right?)
Ummm.... it's the dems that like to play funny games with the constitution. They don't like the fact that conservative judges actually look to what the constitution says, and what the founders meant when they wrote it. The dems think it needs to be "interpretted dynamically" (i.e. mean whatever the judge says it means).
The Old Testament says an eye for an eye, but the New Testiment says turn the other cheek. By your logic, if rules as serious at those in the Constitution are not meant to be 'dynamic', Jesus had no place challenging the "eye for an eye" law, and we should be using it as the basis of our legal system as well. But the world changes, and the law needs to change too. And spare me your response about eroding the Constitution, no one is intending to do that. (The Patriot Act and DMCA probably come closer to that than most of the things you're actually responding to anyways.)
In any case, your statement ignores the fact that *interpretation* is as a matter of fact a dynamic process that depends on the individual interpreting. If it needs to be interpreted at all, there was in fact some ambiguity in it. Possibly the Framers of the Constitution left a little ambiguity in there for a reason? Democracy thrives when there are many different interpretations being debated, not when the only people being heard are all on the same side. I don't believe th
Your post should be modded up as funny.
I probably shouldn't have invoked Atlas Shrugged as I did, only because it detracts from the overall point.
To be clear, I don't agree with Ayn Rands "reasoning". She definitely needed to reassess her own motivations and assumptions. But regardless of the many flaws in the logic of the book, the image of the intelligent productive people leaving the idiots behind to deal with their own problems is useful.
So I was intending to invoke her imagery *without* her theoretical underpinnings. Probably not a good idea, as you point out, but there it is.
who overwhelmingly support Bush.
RTFA - in their own words:
"An unscientific survey of U.S. military personnel"
POLLS ARE CRAP. Unscientific polls are worse than crap (craptacular?).
...and another 4 years of terror begin :(
How can so many people be so stupid and vote this muppet in for a second time, in fairness its a total joke and once again almost every country in the world laughs at the USA
"WebTV: bringing the Internet into the shallow end of the gene pool since 1995" - Martin Bishop
and wish you only the best. From the outside, it looks like you have been fooled by the republicans (who have utterly failed getting that bastard Bin Laden after 3 years and after at least once having him within their reach) into thinking they are the best choice for security when in fact they are the ones who failed you.
I agree with another poster that Kerry (or maybe rather the Democrats) put up a lame fight. I am shocked and depressed that more than 50 million people voted for the dumbest president in our history. He's done everything to appease the far right, led us into a war that is only festering the wounds of anti-Americanism, is plunging us into mind-boggling debt and uses emotional - and completely irrelevant - issues to weasel votes in his favor. Abortion? Gay marriage? You tell me how many of you are directly and negatively affected by either of these.
I only hope the next four years are different from the last four. This administration sickens me in more ways than I can think. We are lving in a more dangerous world that's only going to be come more dangerous under Bush's watch. God help us (although I don't really believe in "god.")
1st of all, he did not concede. What he did was call the president to congradulate him on his win. This is tradition...he isn't really conceding...it is just what they call the phone call.
2nd, there are not enough uncounted ballots to swing the election to his favor. Bush's lead is big enough that even if all of the uncounted ballots are for Kerry, he still can't carry the state.
I know this is flamebait, but if this is a negative trait, then I guess I like negative people.
-Mark
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain.
That's boring. Assault weapon shooting, though, is lots of fun.
If, like many Slashdotters, you enjoy hobbies with lots of neat-o gear, where perfectionism and in-depth arcane knowledge lead to success and the respect of your peers, the shooting sports are perfect for you. For those nasty assault rifles, Highpower rifle competition is one of the most popular shooting sports for the precision-minded. For the precision-minded who border on (or go well over the border to) obsessive-compulsive, look into benchrest competition. For shorter-range, fast shooting look into practical rifle. For the ultimate in slow, long-range work, look into 1000-yard benchrest or F-class competition.
If you prefer pistols, there's a plethora of options with targets ranging from big 'uns just 10 feet away to little 'uns out at 500 meters.
Just an overview. If you want more specifc info, reply and I'll post back.
OTOH, if you were just trying to be sarcastic, you failed miserably, at least with me and all the other assault rifle collectors in the audience.
In A.D. 2004 ....
Election was beginning.
Kerry: What happen ?
Edwards: Somebody set up us the bomb.
Operator: We get signal.
Kerry: What !
Operator: Main screen turn on.
Kerry: It's You !!
Bush: How are you gentlemen !!
Bush: All your electoral votes are belong to us.
Bush: You are on the way to destruction.
Kerry: What you say !!
Bush: You have no chance to survive make your time.
Bush: HA HA HA HA
Kerry: Take off every 'zig' !!
Kerry: You know what you doing.
Kerry: Move 'zig'.
Kerry: For great justice.
The moral of the story? Democracy sucks.
Is Kerry's concession legally binding?
No, it is not.
It would, however, be a very touch political maneuver to explain to the American people how you ended up winning the election, even after conceding it.
Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
Would George W. Bush, under the same circumstances that Kerry found himself this morning, have conceded victory?
What?
The story of America's independance from England is very well known; but did you know that Canada was once also a part of the British Empire? It's true! We Canadian's threw of the same British yoke as you, only we took a more leisurely route to liberation. In fact you might say we've been declaring our independence for more than two hundred years... kind of.
Our style of revolution centered less on bloodshed and gorilla warfare and more on the time tested strategy of not making a fuss. For example, at the same time you were declaring war on the English monarchy, we were enjoying privlidges granted to us by King George in the treaty of Versailles which gave us fishing rights off the coast of Newfoundland - provided we did not dry or cure fish on land. And by the way, we later got the right to dry and cure fish on land thank you very much.
All I'm saying is, there's more than one way to skin a cat. Not that I'm saying in any way that I'd like to harm a cat. Quite the contrary! I like cats... unless America wants Canada to skin a cat, in which case we'll gladly do it.
The point is, we took our time waiting for the Canadian moment to arrive rather than forcing it upon the world. We waited in the cold watching the US, most of Central and South America, Africa and Asia throw off its colonial oppressors. I think it was us and Belize that held out. And our patience ultimately paid off for in the glorious year of 1982 we took the bold step of getting permission from England to amend our constitution so we could amend our constitution without getting permission from England. Let freedom ring!
Now the only remnants of the tyrannical rule of Queen Elizabeth II are an appointed governor general who represents her in Canadian governmental affairs. And the Queen is officially still our head of state, plus she's on all our money, and when we take government job we have to swear a loyalty pledge to her. All in all, a small price to pay for an independence achieved without bloodshed, violence, glory or independence.
I'm sorry if this in any way seems like I'm bragging.
Kidding aside, as some others here have mentioned, there are times when I wonder about getting out. Many a morning finds me having coffee at my favorite local breakfast dive and staring across lake Erie... wondering if I'm up for a swim today. However, usually before my feet are wet I remember that I love my country. I also recognize the differences between patriotism and blind nationalism and often wonder how those differing animals became the same ugly beast that is our national symbol today.
To the chagrin of many friends, family, colleagues and associates I am under the opinion that four more years of President Bush is exactly what we need. If for no other reason than to have undeniable proof that change is essential, necessary and unavoidable. It is time to tear apart the useless mechanism of the Electoral College, it is time to cast aside elitist political agendas that form in the stagnant water of bipartisanism. It is time to educate ourselves in the language of our liberty and take the responsibility of keeping it alive and healthy.
One thing is for sure... one way or another, this hazy, incoherent notion that we live in a democracy needs to come to an end. Look it up folks... our system of government is a Federalist Republic. If you want Democracy... you're going to have to fight for it.
#SickNotWeak
Illiad knew, we'd need a way out! ...
I'd take it, if I could
so long ... ;-)
Ray
CLIFF AND EMCEE: Happy to see you. Bleibe, reste, stay... Willkommen, en bienvenue, welcome Im Cabaret, au Cabaret, tu Cabaret
....
... I'm going like Elsie.
... from cradle to tomb
...
EMCEE: (spoken) Meine Damen und Herren... Mesdames et Messieurs... Ladies and Gentlemen. Where are your troubles now? Forgotten? I told you so. We have no troubles here! In here life is beautiful... the girls are beautiful... even the orchestra is beautiful.
(The GIRL ORCHESTRA appears onstage as do the characters from the opening scene, but this time the picture and the mood are much different. The
girls are not as pretty, German uniforms and swastika armbands are apparent; it is not as bright, a dream-like quality that prevails. dissonant strains of "Willkommen" (Nazi music) are heard. Then from among the moving people,
we see HERR SCHULTZ)
ALL: (Singing) Willkommen, bienvenue, welcome Fremde, etranger, stranger
SCHULTZ: Just children. Mischievous children on their way to school. You understand.
(The people move again and we see FRAULEIN SCHNEIDER)
FRAULEIN SCHNEIDER: I understand. One does what one must.
(Again the people move and we see SALLY)
SALLY: It'll all work out. It's only politics, and what's that got to do with us?
All: Glucklich zu sehen Je suis enchante. Happy to see you.
FRAULEIN SCHNEIDER: I must be sensible. If the Nazis come- what other choice have I?
SCHULTZ: I know I am right because I understand the Germans. After all, what am I? A German.
ALL: (Singing) Fremde, etranger, stranger
Glucklich zu sehen Je suis enchante
(Suddenly SALLY is lifted high on a chair)
SALLY: (Singing) I made my mind up back in Chelsea. When I go
(SALLY is lowered. The people gradually fade away)
Isn't that long a stay.
Life is a cabaret, old chum,
Life is a cabaret, old chum,
(SALLY disappears into the darkness-leaving the EMCEE alone on the stage)
EMCEE: Life is a cabaret.
Auf wiedersehen!
A bientot.
Good night!...
(The EMCEE bows, accompanied by a snare drum roll, then suddenly vanishes with the crash of a high hat cymbal. The stage is empty except for the street lamps shining on the wet street, the mirror, and then, glowing in the darkness, the Cabaret sign)
(final curtain, house lights up)
Edith Keeler Must Die
Comic Book Guy on the next episode of The Simpsons:
"Worst...President...ever!"
I'm not good in groups. It's difficult to work in a group when you're omnipotent. - Q
Bush took office less than 9 months before the terrorists attacks that started all this. Even if we assume (which is unlikely) that the terrorists move as fast as possible, they needed several months to work out all the details. Not to mention teach their people to fly. There is evidence that this group had attacked the US before Bush took office, so perhaps we should blame Clinton's policies. (this would also be wrong - Clinton might have been able to prevent them, but there would be other costs to that)
You might not like Bush's policies. That is fine. You can say they are making things worse, many would agree, and many would disagree. You cannot say his policies caused this. He was not in office long enough for his policies to change much.
You're not in a time of 'war', you're in a time of revenge.... and greed... and lies.
Adolf Bush is a shame to the world.
All of America Flip Flopped in this election. Damn flip floppers. It's a nation of flip floppers.
Ironically, the left is vastly more organized, and has been for a long, long time.
People talk about the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy, but the reality is that the Vast Left Wing Conspiracy actually really exists, and has existed for quite some time.
I wrote about it here:
http://slashdot.org/~eglamkowski/journal/75818
Four "Internationals" plus the still active "Socialist International".
And you think there's not enough left wing propaganda?
And I could further bemoan the tremendous shift leftwards that has permeated society over the past 200 years overall.
Don't believe it?
Here's Marx's 10 points from his Communist Manifesto:
1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc.
We are so there. And the few bits that haven't been implemented, both Bush and Kerry were gushing about implementing.
That's what really pisses me off the most - we've drifted so far left that many people fail to recognize it. Anything that isn't flat out communist is seen as being dangerously right wing. What a joke!
The only danger of becoming a right wing dictatorship is that of first going so far left that we wrap back around the political spectrum.
Just watch what you wish for, you may just get it...
Government IS the problem.
First off, if any of this has been posted before in the 2000+ comments before mine, my apologies. Its kinda hard to read that many replies....
My congratulations to President Bush. I may not like the man or his policies, but he did win not only the Electoral but the Popular Vote. In a sense we can put behind us the issues from the 2000 Election.
But now that he's in charge again, what scares me is what he could do.
Over the next few years he will more than likely be able to appoint three to four Supreme Court Justices.
I may be wrong about this, but this could be the first time in history that the same party will have effective control of the White House, Senate, House of Representatives, and quite possibly the Supreme Court.
Also, now that President Bush has no need to cater to the mainstream in order to win another election, I expect that we'll see a dramatic shift in policy that will make the Religious Right more than happy.
If you put both of those together, there is a great possiblity of the loss of alot of personal rights and freedoms as well as Abortion Rights and possibly more censorship as the Religious Right becomes energized and begins to take power.
Personally, if this happens I see very dark days for the common working man. President Bush has always been extremely Pro Big Business and Pro Rich.
I'm beginning to wonder what sort of country will be left for my son when he becomes of age within the next ten years.......
There must be a fundamentalist Christian state, as many wish South Carolina (the State with the highest per capita African American population) to become.
There must be a panmixia state, as New York is becoming.
There must be ethnostates, as Europe and the Amerindian reservations could still support.
There must be an east-west hybrid state as parts of Hawaii are becoming (with some islands reserved for indigenous Hawians).
There must be a politically correct state as California has become.
There must be a frontier -- as the ocean deserts and space could be if interference with claims were prevented.
And even these aren't enough.
The problem is that all of these things represent true diversity which is the enemy of all those who claim to support diversity.
The fundamental conflict is between democracy as dispute processing and migration as dispute processing. Migration is superior, so long as eminent domain compensation applies, for the simple reason that it allows self determination for all value systems -- not just value systems that can produce the most invasive voters world wide.
Seastead this.
Let's see... you voted Democratic until you voted for a man because so many people say they hate him?
Yeah, that's a guy who has a lot going for him.
Big Daddy, Johnny, Burp, Aunt Zelda, Scott, Slurp, Big Momma
It's fairly simple - 'eh' is used to convert anything into a question for the purpose of compressing the speech data. For example -
Cold, eh ? = It's kind of cold today, isn't it ?
Beer, eh ? = Shall we start drinking already ?
It can also be used to deliver statements rather than questions. For example -
NHL, eh ? = F*cking unions
Crashing, eh ? = Works on my machine.
The Options (someone from the UK please confirm this) are the Labour party (Blair's party, who are conservatives in the clothes of progressives) and the Conservative party (who are conservatives). There is no major progressive party now that the Labour party has been co-opted.
I found it interesting that young voters seemed to favor Kerry in the most recent polls, but then just don't end up voting. Another way of looking at this: even though the polls support Kerry, the ones that actually end up voting favor Bush.
Source: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=186261
Overall, this was the only age group in the entire population that favored Kerry over Bush according to the MSNBC ExitPolls.
Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5297138/
It seems to me that the young Kerry supporters are just plain lazy. I really pin it on the young population for this loss. We (notice I am a young voter, but I actually voted) could have taken this election because we were the ONLY age group to really favor Kerry. No other group would have been able to swing this. The lazyness of young voters has made them responsible for Kerry's loss. I think that most young people don't want to be held accountable for the way things end up. However, by saying NOTHING we only become more responsible for what happens.
I know that the Bush supporters are fine with this situation, but the young voter population favored Kerry. If we all would have voted, it could have made a big difference.
Responsible Youth (It's (not)? an oxymoron.)
Everybody's been watching too much Survivor and thought they were voting Bush out.
This is bad news for the relation between U.S.A and Europe, but a good day for the 3th world's economy.
:-(
If americans vote Bush I have more in common with the muslim world than with americans, even tough i respect your choice and direction for future realtions with the world. This should make EU stronger and even more independent in the next years.
I personally think "you" are uncultured fools, but I have to remember that "you" live in another "culture", and if I was an american norwegian myself I probably would have voted bush
Even if Bush won 100% of the popular vote, and Kerry conceeded 1 minute after the first precinct closed, Kerry could still be elected president. Or Nader for that matter.
Hmmm. In some states the electors are legally required to cast their ballots "correctly", but in many states they're actually free to vote "their consciensce". So, if Bill Gates really wanted to buy the presidency, he could just find 270 "free" electors (now that they're chosen) and offer them $50M each to vote for him instead! For $135M, he would be President! That'd be a lot cheaper than campaigning. A lot less work, too.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
That the United States did not officially occupy or annex Germany and Japan after World War II, but instead it unofficially made them its satellite states. In France, Britain, Germany, Japan, and many other countries you will find U.S. Military installations. How many of those countries have a base in the United States? None.
The United States does indeed have a global military hegemony, and does indeed have a group of defacto satellite states.
The Democrats lost because of three things.
1) They can't give up their own unreasonable mythologies. Women don't make 76 cents on the dollar when like is compared to like. It's just like in college having the same argument at 2am. "Fine, I'll just go get an MBA, and hire only women at 80 cents on the dollar, and put every male dominated business out of business!" Turns out not only with that make you a "misogynist" but it will insure you won't get laid.
2) They don't understand that real government is *exactly* as fascinating student goverment and an election is a long assembly for 300 million people. The smart kids only win if the cool kids aren't running, or are completely disfunctional fuck-ups.
3) If you're going to wrestle a pig, you're going to get dirty. If you can't abide getting dirty, consider another line of work.
Ahem...It's 'Sister,' but thanks, nonetheless! What's more, we should all take a close look at the group of voters that failed us this election, on whom we counted a bit too much: The 18-25 year age range was courted wildly and feverishly. They registered in record numbers and attended lots of free concerts, yada, yada. They didn't vote in this election any more than in 2000, with turnout of only 17%- an identical ratio. Somehow, in order to overcome the overwhelmingly disproportionate power distribution that has now been created, we have to get these young voters to *vote* in the next major elections, for our reps and our senators, as well. We have to engage these voters and bring them into the polls to cast a ballot, not just get them amped. Maybe the draft will make them active...
-Honestly, stupidity should be painful.
I'm Danish, and I'm very much against Bush. From reading blogs on the internet, I get the impression that the fact that the rest of the world - by and large - is against Bush, actually helped him, because many voters thought (based on zero-sum view of world politics) 'Hey, that's because they want us to vote for a weak president - that means Bush is strong!". If Americans think europeans are crying now, think again. The general European view is that we don't understand how the American people can vote for a president that is in the process of ruining his country. We are not that afraid of how the election will affect our own situation - after all, it doesn't have that much of an effect on *us* who sits in the White House... it is not very likely Bush is going on another Iraq-venture soon. The result of this election, is going to be really bad for Americans themselves.
You can already now see the dollar in the red, after it became known that Bush keeps the presidency, because Bush is not going to do anything about the umpteen-billion (or is it trillion) dollar trade and budget deficits - at least until he has to. However, sooner or later the world and the fundamental mechanisms of economics are going to do something about it, and it could get really ugly. Bush seems to think that the deficits will disappear by themselves as the economy grows, but that will unfortunately not be the case: The U.S. economy grew at a fast pace for the past 1½ years and that has done nothing but to make the already record-high deficits even bigger. So the kind of growth the U.S. has experienced has been mainly in demand with little growth in exports. Why should further growth change that?
On the other hand, if the U.S. is heading for a recession, which is becoming a possibility now that it is becoming clear that consumers have exhausted all their credit options and the artifical growth created by the tax cuts, the U.S. is going to be in big trouble: It is going to have to deal with hefty deficits, inflation and a recession at the same time! An almost impossible task because fixing one of the problems will make the others worse. In the worst-case-scenario such a situation would create a self-sustaining dollar fall as foreign investors pull their money out of U.S. assets because of the lower growth prospects.
Throw in high oil prices (which due to subtle mechanisms will eventually affect the dollar) and slowing growth in China, and you will see that this is not just paranoia but genuine concerns.
I really hope none of this is going to happen because it will affect not only the U.S. economy but the entire world economy - but of course, budget-disciplined nations like the Scandinavian countries will have much less of a problem because they don't have to repay a huge debt.
So good luck America - particularly to those sensible people who didn't vote for Bush. To the rest, you got what you asked for, I really hope you will enjoy it... however, I'm quite sure that within the next four years many of you will regret your choice.
I cannot agree more.
Some predicted, I remember, that if Russia had to withdraw from the Afghanistan on overhelming causalties (in Russian terms), US cannot succeed.
I checked Vietnak war statistics:
Someone said that Iraq is new Vietnam.
If it were, we would need draft, three times as much troops, had 25 times as many causalties and the front would still be hundred miles from Baghdad.
I checked teh Economic statistics:
This recession's peak unemployment was lowerst below the average of the past 30 years and the lowes in all recorded recessions. We are too young to remember the true recessions and the deficit is starting to improev rapidly.
The other guy promissed 10 millioon jobs, never mind that there is only 8 millions unemployed. He has no sensee of economics
I checked the numbers. In 4 years, considering that the workforce grew by 6.5 million, loosing 0.6% of unemployment rate results in 6.5-50*0.013 = 0.9-6.5 = 5.6million jobs gained.
Why don't we hear any of this on the TV?
If the election ended up differently, there would be hardly any space for improvement, but lot more potentioal for becoming worse.
Petrus
On the other hand, that could make fraud easier, as you don't see suspicious swells or dips in the voter count. *shrug* Six of one, half a dozen of the other, and Seven-of-Nine.
This sig has absolutely no significance and serves only to take up screen space and waste the time of the reader.
>Regarding the terrorists, yes they actually do >the attacks, and they are wrong to do so, but it >is still largely caused by the asinine and >boorish foreign policies embraced by the >Republican party.
.5 of a democracy >with Iraq? All we've established is a full >quagmire.
:)
Hmm considering 9/11 happened after 8 years of Democratic administrations, thats a very lame argument. And it happened less than a year into
George W Bush's presidency, long before he had done anything outside the US. And if you want to blame the first Gulf war, thats the one completely authorized and supported by the United Nations.
>Regarding the draft, well, the Republican party >may say they don't want it, but those same >foreign policies may necessitate it. The Dems who >are pushing for it know they won't get it, >they're trying to make a political point.
The phoney draft cards that got mailed around by the democrats, was the last straw that made me support Bush, anybody but Bush is not a viable plan.
>And you think we've established
Yes Iraq is a mess, in retrospect it was a bad move to go there. But virtually everyone including Bill Clinton and John Kerry supported it.
But Afghanistan did hold an election (free and fair as certified by international observers). More than 10 million people voted, I think thats a massive
change from the Taliban regime that ruled before.
A time when people got taken to a soccer field and shot for listening to music.
>And while we shouldn't be accountable to the rest >of the world, you might think something is awry >when 80% of the world doesn't like what you're >doing. Considering the thoughts of others doesn't >mean you're cowtowing to them, it just means >you're not an arrogant asshole.
The rest of the world has disliked the US for a long time, long before George W Bush became president. Most of it is just people not liking the fact that US has the most powerful economy, and American culture relentlessly creeping into their countries via TV/Movies/Music etc. When a single entity dominates for so long, lot of people
will cheer for the underdog. Its the reason why
so many people dislike the New York Yankees baseball team. The reaction to 9/11 in this '80%'
of the world you mention was one of concealed glee. To a lot of them it was the dominant player
finally losing.
Even if a democrat had been elected the '80%' of the world would still dislike America and Americans, Bush is just an excuse for them to express their dislike openly.
America voted decisively for Bush yesterday, he won by more than 3.5 million votes. Whats more
the republicans gained seats both in the Senate and the House of Representatives. If the democrats want to win elections they ought to listen to the electorate, not what someone in Canada or Sweden thinks. People from other countries dont vote in their elections worrying about what the Americans might think, dont know why we should be worrying about what other countries might think about our president.
John kerry ran an ad on tv, one where he was the hawk and Bush was the Ostrich with his head stuck in the sand. Only right now its the Democratic party who have their head in the sand, refusing to see the writing on the wall.
I have always been more aligned to Democratic party policices than the Republican party's. But this time with only the hate Bush rhetoric coming from the democrats and no real ideas for progress. I had to support Bush, albeit with heavy reservations. And I suspect looking at the popular vote, lot of other people around the country felt the same way.
And no the US isnt just collapsing, our economy
is strong, we have 5.4% unemployment, compare that
to over 10% in most of the rest of the '80%' of the world..including France and Germany.
For those who voted for kerry..repeat after me....this too shall pass
I've heard from about a half dozen liberal friends about the election so far, and without exception each one has instantly run afoul of Goodwin's Law.
In my book, it goes quite some ways towards explaining why they lost.
No, I know you were refuting the "we stand on God for Thee" bit - I was referring to your rant against the President putting God into his policies - since as a Canadian, we've got God right there in our anthem...
As to my nationality quiz - that's probably the only reason I'll respond, cause I really like your choice of questions.
-What is your favorite Timbit?
My favourite chocolate, though I was raised on Robins Eggs - we didn't get a Timmy Ho's here until I was 18 or something...
-Who is Paul Henderson, what did he do, and when?
Paul scored a goal against the Russians three years before I was born (I was born in 1975.) It was a very big goal. "There's a shot. Out front to Henderson, he scores!" I think I've heard that aboot a million and a half times.
-38 and no date describes what NHL team.
That's no team, that's the maple leafs.
-Name two dog breeds named for a Canadian province.
I'll admit you've got me stumped there - Labrador Retriever? and ? I'm not a big dog guy.
-Who is Grapes? Blue? Rose? Ron?
Don Cherry, his dog (a bull terrier, who passed away some time ago) his wife (who passed away two years ago, which resulted in him growing that godawful goatee) and his straightman on HNIC - the current host of Movie Night in Canada
-Toronto is the capital of what (and no, "smelling like my ass" is not a correct response, even if it is true)?
Hmmm isn't Tdot the capital of the world? No, wait, the Universe...Ah, hell. Ontario. Close enough.
drinking Molson, Labatt, etc... usually make you dislike beer
:o)
Actually, I do like beer. I just don't like the stuff that Molson and Labatt try to pass off as beer
Would be good to fight with other slashdot readers in another war without sense, maybe when all of us lose a friend, a relative or a limb without justification we'd understand how wrong Bush have been over the years. Good luck everyone.
Thanks for nothing big liberal sissy.
I've had my .2 second thought about this. But there's one problem - in W's second term, we don't know how many people are going to die as a result of his policies. I'm not comfortable laying down to watch X,000 or XX,000 young American soldiers, or XX,000 or XXX,000 Afghans, Iraqis, Syrians, Iranians, Phillipinos, Thais or whomever get killed because they are in the wrong place at the wrong time.
There is a need for a war against terrorists, sure. W's plan is not that type of war. His war is a crusader's war and that cannot be swallowed whole and without resistance.
Organize to defend our rights or literally die.
I'd buy that for a dollar. (canned laughter)
Let me tell you why I strongly dislike George Bush.
These are just a few of the many reasons I think George W. Bush is entirely unfit for the office of the president. Also, please bear in mind that the above proposals were done in his first term - a term where he knew he would be seeking reelection. What's the man going to do now that he knows he's got nothing else to run for?
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -David Hume
Once again, democracy has failed. I think it's clear that to win the presidency one does not have to be smarter or have better ideas. The only thing a candidate has to do is to appeal to the emotionality of the uninformed, unintelligent electorate. America is now moving toward becoming a one party state. As many philosophers have stated, real political change can only be acheived through violence. Let that be the lesson for today.
There was a _reason_ the electoral college came into being: so that populous states would not "drown" out the less populous ones. It had nothing to do with "information technology".
Okay, how about we keep the electoral college, but ditch the "winner takes all" aspect. Each state's electoral votes get split according to the popular vote in that state. This more closely approximates the popular vote while leaving less populous states with the same influence in the election.
...the founding fathers' lack of visioin?
Hold up before you start calling the founding fathers a group of dumb a**'s, you are starting to sound like you are crying, or you are very uneducated.
If you didn't know, the reason we have the political mess you are talking about is because in the days of W. H. Taft, and later on with T. Marshall,(Supreme Court justices), the U.S. Supreme Court userped power from the legislative and Executive branches of the government and started mandating legislation for the entire nation in cases that should have been resolved at the state level. How long has it been since you heard the phrase 'States' rights?' Yeah, I haven't heard it outside history class either.
The founding fathers were not blind, neither did they have a lack of vision. We are the ones who lost it. We have stepped past their vision and ignore what they setup to take care of these problems; the state government, (which, btw, has elections based on population).
Very rarely, (I don't know, but I think it has only happened once), does the popular vote differ from the electorial vote, and if there is a 5-to-1, rural-to-urban vote problem, then I would assume that that urban population is either happy with what is happening, or they don't care. If there is the population in the major citits to elect the officials, then they should be easily able to do so. 5-to-1 makes it sound like the rural area's either have more citizens, or more law abiding citizens; if either are true, your attack is fallacious.
Calling the rural population, (which feeds you and every other shmuck in the city), horrible is outright ludicrous. If you are so eager to be rid of them, go ahead and try to live without them. Don't buy any food grown or produced in the rural united states and see how you fare.
I fully agree with you that the electoral college needs to be changed, but calling for the demise of the senate and for the rule of the urban cities over the entire nation would be catastrophic. A heavily populated area governing a distant group of people which the urban area really has no idea about is the same senario that provided the tinder for the spark of the Revolution. Did you get that? What you're proposing is one of the very reasons we broke away from England. It wasn't anything wrong with England, it was a need for us.
Please post intelligently. Try not to push us back more than two hundred years.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to govern any other" -John Ada
Osama Bin Laden's original purported complaint with the United States was that he wanted American troops out of the "Holy Land" of Saudi Arabia. (When Muslims pray five times daily, they are always facing towards Saudi Arabia)
.
.
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American troops were there in Saudi Arabia only becaue they needed to enforce the "No Fly Zone" provisions of the treaty that ended the first war with Iraq. Saddam Hussein consistently violated those treaties.
With Saddam Hussein removed, American troops and their military base, which existed there during the entire Clinton era, are now no longer in Saudi Arabia.
Osama Bin Laden got his "wish", so what are the Al Qaeda complaining about now? Bush did exactly what Osama Bin Laden wanted: Bush removed American military bases from the "sacred" Muslim ground. NOW we see in the latest videotape that Osama Bin Laden has changed his tune. He's now claiming that he's been fighting for Palestine all this time! What a laugh, such an obvious and cliche way to gain popularity among the anti-Semites in the Muslim population. Indeed, if Osama Bin Laden really put his money where his mouth is, he would have invested all of his money into Palestinian small businesses and encouraged them to focus their energy on construction, not destruction. Instead, he decided to set up his "utopia" in...Afghanistan. What a utopia that was: women were brutally oppressed and beaten, artists were executed, an ancient Buddhist statue carved into a cliff was demolished by a shoulder missile, native Afghanis lived in constant fear of irritating the Taliban authorities and resented their intrusion. Bin Laden was thinking of Palestine the whole time?
If the 9/11 commission complained that a "failure of IMAGINATION" allowed the terrorists to strike, then it didn't take much IMAGINATION to realize that Saddam Hussein was a significant threat. The Duelfur report confirms as much, since it reports that Hussein had weapons that exceeded proscribed limits and were capable of delivering chemical/bioligcal payloads, and that the Iraquis had the intellectual capital to restart the biological and chemical weapons programs. War breeds strange alliances. Remember when Adolf Hitler, supposedly wanting to promote the Third Reich of "pure" Aryan blood, allied with the Japanese Empire...whose citizens didn't look Aryan at all?
If America had just sat on its hands, Hussein's regime would only have gotten stronger (now that we KNOW for certain that France and other countries were secretly pouring money into his regime), the American taxpayers would still be paying for the support of troops in Saudi Arabia, and Osama Bin Laden would still be able to hide behind his supposed "complaint" about the "Holy Land". Putting off a war now would have guaranteed a larger and bloodier war in the future.
There are those who object to the American "occupation" of Iraq. Well guess what?
America "occupied" Germany, and Germany's economy is doing great. The Germans are not an "oppressed" people
America "occupied" Japan, and Japan's economy is doing great. The Japanese are not an "oppressed" people
America "occupies" South Korea, and South Korea's economy is doing great. The South Koreans are not an "oppressed" people
The people who oppose the United States are generally Socialist. They are still smarting from the collapse of Communism around the world. It is a typical pattern of Communist agitators to assemble mass demonstrations against capitalists. Remember the large mass demonstrations that occurred just before the second Iraq war commenced? Odd how no large mass demonstrations in Europe have rallied protesting the terrorists who blow up civilians on a daily basis
I was curious about how the electoral vote vs state population numbers really stacked up, and figured it out the other day. I didn't put a ton of time into it and thus made some really bad assumptions (100% turnout etc), but it worked out that in the worst-case scenario a candidate could potentially win with only 22% of the popular vote. Also, a vote in Wyoming is worth the most towards winning an electoral vote, a vote in Texas is worth the least. I made all comparisons in relation to Minnesota (where I live) - a Wyoming vote is worth 3 times as much as a MN one, and Texas is only 77% of a MN vote.
My conclusion? The electoral college has got to go. Why shouldn't we have a popular vote? Because it disadvantages the small states? That's crap - they already have disproportionate numbers in Congress, why should they have an advantage in the presidential election as well?
A popular vote + instant runoff voting would really go a long way towards restoring my confidence in American politics. Even if the elections kept going to the dems or repubs, at least third parties would get enough of a vote as to have a voice. Unless I'm being overly presumptuous - would people still stick to the red vs blue, elephant vs donkey power struggle?
For those who will die in Terror attacks to come in states that supported a Regime that antagonizes the terrorists and forgets about them when a war of conquest can be waged: You asked for this
For those of you who will lose your job as our economy is further driven into another great depression, enjoy your dirt and dust meals: You asked for this.
To the rest of the world, I voted for a responsible man not out for oil conquests attempting to justify and illegal and unjust war with unfounded lies. I apologize for what the blind and ignorant majority is about to subject you to due to primitive superstitions and the propaganda filled lies pushed out by the Bush Regime.
Please pity those of us condemned to stay here and suffer, for we must watch our once great nation continue to be systematically destroyed and left wide open for provoked terrorist attacks that a bumbling moron cannot even begin to fathom.
R.I.P.
United States of America
Alot of comments here seem to suggest that since Bush cannot be re-elected, he is now free to do anything he wants without regard for the public opinion. These comments miss a few very important points.
The Bush administration has a large interest in keeping public approval. Not so much Bush himself, but the neocons arounds him - ie Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Condoleezza Rice, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Paul Bremer and Lewis Libby to name a few.
The neocons have had key positions in every republican administration since the mid-70s, including under Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan, Bush senior and now Bush junior. They are an ideological group based in part on the philosophy of Leo Strauss, whose stated goals are to spread democracy around the world, by force, preserving Pax Americana and expanding the american economic and cultural empire.
To acheieve this goal, an organization named The Project for a New American Century was founded by William Kristol in 1997. Its members include all of the neocons listed above, and its basic principles are, according to its website:
The neoconservatives have had complete control of the US foreign policy in the Bush administration. The Bush doctrine is based on a document written by Paul Wolfowitz in 1992, called the Defense Planning Guidance. At the time, under Bush senior, the document was regarded as too radical and key propositions in it was rejected (including unilateralism and the use of preemtive strikes). These radical propositions now form the core of US foreign policy.
In addition, the PNAC released a report in 2000 called Rebuilding Americas Defenses (PDF download here), which outlines the overthrow of Saddam Hussein and installation of a US base in Iraq to secure the oil for geostrategic purposes after peak-oil (just consider the control it would give them over China, when they can control a large portion of their energy supplies), and to attempt to spread democracy in the region. According to the document, this would only be possible after, and I quote, a "catastrophic and catalyzing event like a new Pearl Harbor".
Now, this little project of theirs is quite ambitious, and will take a long time, so the neocons have great interest in keeping a republican presidency (puppet or not), so they stay in control of foreign policy. They attempted to persuade Clinton to attack Iraq, but without any success, so now that they are in power they won't give it up easily. Luckily for them, the american public seems more than happy to go along.
I wonder if people here would be yelling about the "failure" of the system if Kerry or someone else won.
Additionally, we need to expand the House (at minimum) to more fairly represent the population. In fact, it needs to be at least doubled in size. In that way, Electors will more fairly represent the will of the Citizens they are supposed to represent.
Hey, why stop at doubling the size? Why not quadruple the size? Why not have 30,000 representatives and eighteen simultaneous co-presidents?
By the slashdot poll, a majority of you are as disgusted with the results as I am, you have some choices. Instead of moving to Canada (by all means come on up!) why not help spread the internet into that large block of red states in the middle of the USA, help reduce the ignorance? Free wireless web terminals for farmers and ranchers? You have to reach out to those people! Any stats on Internet usage between Republicans and Democrats?
Imagine your opinion of the Iraq war if your only real source of news was the American Broadcast media?
Bavarian Purity Law of Rice Krispie Squares: Rice Krispies, Marshmallows, Butter, Vanilla.
when bush totally alienates the USA from the rest of the world. this is one of my biggest fears. the brand called "America" has been tarnished by this administration's bullying and selfishness. if we cry wolf (read "WMD") next time who's gonna help?
http://www.chrysanthalbee.com/wordpress
Let me just post this once again:
Bush Supporters Still Believe Iraq Had WMD or Major Program, Supported al Qaeda
I'm not sure it is stupidity, but rather ignorance which is the problem here.
If you're really concerned about politics than vote at a local level. Local representatives can do a whole lot more to your life than the president can.
Real programmers can write assembly code in any language. -- Larry Wall
The Power of Nightmares. Find it on your favourite P2P network.
to get you all riled up like that, eh kid? I'm just impressed that out of around 2700 comments (mostly pro-Kerry) - somebody cared enough to read through them, mod me down (twice) AND reply!
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I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight to the death to defend your right to say it. (--paraphrased quote)
SO, it will be interesting to see how the final certified vote counts go. We may find that other swing states were closer than we thought. It only takes two or three of them to shift the other way and counter Ohio. In my county in New Mexico, there were still 20,000 uncounted votes as of this morning (about 40% of the total cast). It'd be a shame if JK quit too soon. .
This sig is a test. If this had been an actual sig, you would be reading something quite a bit wittier than this now.
Now that the American Century is officially over, kiss your pension fund goodbye. And there won't be a bail out, and with this administration they'll be no pressure or time left to make up the difference.
Blah blah, death of integrity, triumph of sophistry, decline of american technical prowess. At least I'll be dead before the collapse. So, really for me, do some coke, screw some hookers no worries.
And, hey, there's always the Roman solution. Use superior military prowess to plunder and conquer neighbors. I wouldn't mind pillaging a few Canadian strip clubs.
GET OVER IT.
Face it. You all were fed a line... You had a choice of horseshit candidate #1 and horseshit candidate #2, and most of the people voted for horseshit candidate #1. Stop voting for what you think is the lesser of to piles of horseshit. Things are never going to get better while we still buy this ridiculous line of reasoning. Bottom line, more than %98 percent of the people who voted still voted for a pile of horseshit!!!
Half the country thinks their vote was for nothing and they lost. A lot of people who voted for the winner are sitting around thinking... "Whew... close call, pile of hs #1 might not be the best president, but at least we didn't get pile #2!!!"
Stop voting for piles of horseshit!!!! It doesn't matter which one you get, it's still horseshit!
Damn I'm glad I voted libertarian.
When you lose a Presidential election, at what point does your Secret Service protection end? Day after election day? Moment you concede? January 20?
Global and historic effects of policy 1 of 2
Divided post. Questions of why and how are common in this, but a question of what is relatively important for understanding the events in the American Federal and State governments-what will be the result of the current and related past changes in its power structure, character, and economy and what impact will this have, outside of rhetoric, on the development and implementation of progressive policies in that nation? A party has managed to have its candidate elected despite unconscionable fiscal and environmental records seemingly due to its focus on ensuring that the elements of the majority religion of that nation are frequently addressed by its candidate. Before that, two campaigns radically divided the populace of that nation to such a degree that violence has been suppressed primarily by absence of national vigor and organization for goals other than the subjecting of the population of an area of the world with predominant levels of technology barely above those of the bronze age to the equivalent of serfdom.
Bush is only for free trade on exports - which isn't really "free".
If he were *really* for free trade, he'd not have allowed the steel and softwood lumber tarriffs (both of which impartial courts have decided are unfair and in violation of NAFTA) and would lift the ban on importation of live Canadian beef.
From these two events, several results seem probable.. That nation could adopt the Prussian nature and militarize its society in order to exert optimum force on the globe for any purpose. It could become dedicated to the creation of an empire and end up repeating the mistakes of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland in Imperial expansion and national decay (The UK formerly encompassed all of Ireland and not just the north) or it could act as an enforcement agency of UN policy through a refinement of pre-established structures that already encompass the majority of nations in the world. Alternatively, that nation could adopt a Theocratic nature, adopting regressive policies of restricting scientific research, personal liberty, and communal liberty. Still alternatively, it could be a temporary stage during which a particular segment of that nation's populace is overly represented and dictates policy based on its notions of appropriateness as occurred before and often by other unions of states throughout history. What are the results obtained through analysis by other users?
From these two events, several results seem probable. That nation could adopt the Prussian nature and militarize its society in order to exert optimum force on the globe for any purpose. It could become dedicated to the creation of an empire and end up repeating the mistakes of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland with imperial expansion and national decay (The UK formerly encompassed all of Ireland and not just the north) or it could act as an enforcement agency of UN policy through a refinement of pre-established structures that already encompass the majority of nations in the world. Alternatively, that nation could adopt a Theocratic nature, adopting regressive policies of restricting scientific research, personal liberty, and communal liberty. Still alternatively, it could be a temporary stage during which a particular segment of that nation's populace is overly represented and dictates policy based on its notions of appropriateness as occurred before and often by other unions of states throughout history. What are the results obtained through analysis by other users?
Over the last couple of days I have read lots of posts railing against "the christian right" calling us sheeple, mindless idiots etc. Isn't this what democracy is about though, people voting for what we believe? We had a choice between two men and we picked the one that most closely reflected our beliefs. This will probably get me flamed and labeled as an idiot, but as one of the "mindless christian idiots" I thank God that we have a president that at least tries to seek guidance from a higher power. So Flame on -- Es ist mir egal.
It simply provides the vi option for people who want the convience of a superior editor and OS, but just don't know any better.
It's hard for me to believe that people would rather vote based on taking away other peoples rights away ( same sex marriage, abortion ) as opposed to voting to better the people on a whole ( health care, enviroment, economical growth ), but I'm sure fear has alot to do with it. Oh well I Don't live in the U.S. but I hope your president leads you well. And I congradulate both parties for an exciting and interesting election.
The punch line (according to a good friend of mine) is that Bush will run for a third term. He'll campaign for the third term arguing that he wasn't really elected to the first one!
Wouldn't that easily qualify as flip flop? ;)
From M-W.com:
demagogue:
a leader who makes use of popular prejudices and false claims and promises in order to gain power
So you tell me, which candidate does that describe? The one who turned out his evangelical base by riding on the coattails of anti-gay prejudice? The one who led us into a quagmire in Iraq based on false claims and fear-mongering?
If Kerry had told the people "what they wanted to hear" he would have been giving his acceptance speech right now. Instead he told them the truth: the issues at play today are complex and nuanced, and require as much thought as resolve..... but of course, that's flip-flopping.
Obviously Kerry is the demagogue..... what was I thinking.....
The problem is that the electoral base of the Republicans (which is apparently, and unfortunately the majority of american voters) does not care what goes on outside their country. As long as the president can control gaz prices at reasonable levels, keep the interest rates low so they can continue their buying frenzy, and make them FEEL like they're safe, they're content with that. So sadly enough, for the majority of americans, there was NO reason not to vote for Bush.
Americans have always been more interested with what goes on inside their country then out. And it looks like the majority of them cannot understand that their current foreign policy will only fuel hate towards America, and can only hinder their precious "war on terror" in the long run.
For a country that is so proud of being so religious, whatever happened "Do upon others what you would like done to you" (??? sorry can't remember the real quote) ? You bomb people left and right, overthrow democratic governments throughout the world in favor of dictatorships in your own interest... and then your surprised that people in the world hate Americans that much ??
For once i think bin Laden had it right when he said that America's future was not in the hands of Kerry or Bush, but in their own hands.
Wake up and face what's really happening around us. The world is not a pretty place. Compassion, education, cheap medecines free of any patents/restrictions would go a lot further than sanctions, bombings and Departments of Homeland Security. And speaking of that, am I the only one that seemed to think that Osama bin Laden
A million monkeys and this is the best sig they could come up with...
Thanks - you've expressed how I feel rather clearly, and in stronger words than I would've had the guts to say.
... to an extent it needed to happen, but not the US going alone), suppressing freedom of speech and personal freedoms around the world, and leading the push for legislation to consolidate the power of large corporations over individuals. I'm really not sure how much worse it can get. Perhaps they'll invade us (Australia) next. If they shoot Howard, I'll admit owing them a favour.
I feel like screaming right now - god fucking knows what the world is in for now, I was hoping Bush could be stopped. I don't understand these folks talking about "your dire predictions will never come true" - MOST OF THEM ALREADY FUCKING HAVE!
The USA is happily invading soverign countries (yeah, I know
Washington, DC, Oct. 25 (UPI) -- Through a warp in the space-time continuum, there landed on my desk this morning the Bear's Lair for Monday, November 3, 2008. It makes depressing reading.
--
"As we head into the most divisive election in history, the lesson must be clear: economic distress breeds extremism. Democrat Hillary Clinton, running on a program of nationalization of the oil industry and establishment of a state-funded National Health Service, faces off against Republican Newt Gingrich, on a platform of privatization of social security and abolition of the departments of Education, Labor, Energy and State. Four years ago, such a confrontation would have seemed unimaginable, but economic difficulties have polarized American politics.
"The main difficulty facing the new administration will be the federal budget deficit, scheduled to hit $947 billion in the year to September 2009, around 7.5 percent of gross domestic product. With the long term Treasury bond rate at 8.7 percent, funding this deficit has become difficult even though consumer price inflation over 7 percent makes the interest rate relatively low in real terms. Blame for the deficit depends on where you're standing; conservatives blame an increase in Federal spending from 20 percent of GDP to 25 percent, while liberals point out that the spending increase was largely due to the prolonged 2005-2007 recession, and has been funded by only moderate increases in taxes.
"As a result, two different strategies have appeared to deal with the problem. Clinton wants to increase the size of government, so that the American public gets real benefits for the high taxes it pays, while Gingrich wants to cut back government fundamentally. He would roll back President George W. Bush's education funding increases of 2001, abolish the Education Department, as he promised in his 1994 "Contract with America," and also close the State Department, held by Democrats to be an essential operation of government but denounced by conservatives as an unnecessary boondoggle that pays out American money to foreigners.
"Oil supply difficulties will also be an essential issue, with crude closing Friday at $112.50 per barrel. The collapse of the Chinese economy has reduced pressure on the demand side, but 2007's Islamic Jihad uprising and subsequent civil war in Saudi Arabia have devastated world oil supplies, allowing the world's demand to be satisfied only at very high prices. While General Motors' coal burning SUV is an innovative approach to the oil problem, there's no doubt that today's solution is conservation, with inner cities being re-colonized by the middle classes while the now worthless outer suburb McMansions are repossessed by their mortgage lenders and filled by the unemployed squatters that have alas proliferated during the recession.
"Unemployment, currently 10.6 percent, is also a huge issue. The Special Textile Protection Act of 2005 certainly protected the textile jobs of North and South Carolina against foreign competition, especially from the then booming economy of China, but the collapse of Wal-Mart in 2007 has regrettably devastated the economy of Arkansas. However, the adverse U.S. trade balance has been reduced from its very high levels of 4 years ago to around $250 billion per annum, helped partly by protectionism but probably more by the current exchange rates of $1.85 to the euro and 76 yen =$1.
"Of course, the unemployment number is somewhat artificially elevated. The surge in immigration following the election of leftist Mexican President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador in 2006, and the subsequent collapse of the Mexican peso and re-nationalization of the Mexican banking system, has made U.S. jobs hard to come by.
"The mass immigration of the Mexican professional class has had some highly positive effects. Who would have thought four years ago that the new and almost ubiquitous "Pedro's" dental centers chain, with its cheerful "Golden Sombrero" logo, could have reduced the price of an uninsured ch
To the rest of the world that will change these next four years. I guess the /. poll was far from the truth, it was the dumb versus the smarter mass of people. :(
America 2004 = Britain 1900?
American 2054 = Britain 1950?
"Canada is ranked near the bottom of a list of 169 nations' military spending, far behind its NATO allies and lagging behind countries such as Croatia and Guinea" -- prestigious international think-tank.
"In its annual report Military Balance, the London-based International Institute of Strategic Studies analyzes military trends, defence spending and the armies, navies and air forces of 169 countries.
The report puts Canada's defence spending at US$10.118-billion, based on 2003 figures, giving us one of the 20 largest military budgets in the world. But as a percentage of our gross domestic product, Canada's military is among the worst-funded in the world at 1.2%.
The NATO average is almost double that amount and Canada's comparative defence spending trails much smaller and impoverished countries such as Croatia and the west African nation of Guinea, Christopher Langton, the editor of the report, said.
"Croatia spends a little bit more than Canada per capita and considerably more as a percentage of their GDP," he said in an interview from London. "Your defence spending as a percentage of GDP is below the average for African nations."
"It's less than Nigeria or Kenya, which spend 1.8% of their GDP, and Guinea, which is at 1.9%."
The Netherlands, with about half the population of Canada, has a military strength of 53,100, according to the report, slightly larger than the 52,300 soldiers it tallies for the Canadian Forces effective strength. The Dutch spend 1.6% of their GDP on their military and have a slightly smaller defence budget at US$8.255-billion.
Similarly, Spain spends slightly less of its GDP on defence but manages to maintain a strength of 150,000 troops, while Turkey spends about US$1.5-billion more and counts 544,000 soldiers in its military -- more than 10 times the size of the Canadian Forces.
Mr. Langton said that "persistent underfunding" and ageing equipment are the biggest problems facing Canada's military. "There's a lack of political will in terms of funding the Canadian armed forces," he said in an interview from London. "In terms of equipment, Canada rates very low in the world."
But he added that despite the funding shortfalls and the often antiquated vehicles or weapons that the Canadian military is given to work with, our troops remain among the best soldiers in the world."
Just like a leftist... you love leaching other people's money, blood and sacrifice.
Carl Rove. (sp?)
The reason the 2000 vote was so close was that many of the religous right didn't vote.
This is why the deeper crap the president got into, the more 'radical' religious issues were brought up by the administration.
One of the major issues was whether or not two people of the same gender can enter into a legal contract of marriage.
It ahs no real effect, becasue two people who believe in a faith that allows same gender intitution can still get married in the eyes of their church.
It in no way stops same gender relatinships.
The two same gendered people walking down the street holding hands will still do so regardless of there legal contractual status.
So, it was a point that has no bearing on anyones day to day life that Carl Rove was able to manipulate the religious 'right' to vote.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Does having grandparents who left Germany for America in 1938 count?
I think AC was referring to someplace closer to home and sometime closer to the present.
It's just that to compare 2004 America with 1938 Germany appears to trivialize the fear and desperation many of us can only read about.
It trivializes the consequences of the actions of fearful and desperate people too.
... with 1" lead tapestry.
What, NPR isn't enough of a LEFTwing propoganda machine for you?
That doesn't include the large quantity of other media lefties - documentary filmmakers, journalists, etc.
That said, you're correct that the left wing folks have not done a good job articulating what's good about their positions and opinions. I asked several seriously Democratic friends of mine to articulate what was good about Kerry, and most of them were only able to say "he's not Bush" or hit Bush with some insult. That's not particularly compelling to me, and it appears not to have been compelling to the rest of the country.
Need Geek Rock? Try The Franchise!
I, for one, welcome the apocalypse.
If "Aw crap" was the strongest wording you heard, you're mighty lucky.
The responses to the news in my office (an Austalian newspaper) were a lot louder, and a LOT ruder.
Most of us are already horrified enough that Howard won the local election, so this is just scary.
1 person, 1 vote is the only fair system.
No it isn't. In fact there are cases where it is really quite UNfair. That is the case when a country has a large, diverse geography and demographics. When it comes to electing a government that meets the diverse needs pure rep-by-pop or "1 person 1 vote" is a poor system. There has to be a mechanism in place to reflect LOCAL and REGIONAL interests as well as the simple majority.
If there was no electoral college or similar mechanism, NY, CA and other states with large urban centres could dominate. The concerns of people outside those area would be ignored because they couldn't mathematically compete against the concerns of urban costal USA. Believe me, what is right for LA or NYC is NOT right for Idaho and Wyoming. In case you havent noticed, LA and NYC appear to be different planets to just about the whole rest of the continent.
I'm not saying that the electoral college is the best way to go or it cannot be improved, I'm just saying that there has to be some balance in the selection of the US president. If the President could get elected by relying only on big cities then the whole country would go to hell in a handbasket. A life long resident of NYC or LA cannot comprehend at all what life is like in a place like Billings, MT.
Count yourselves lucky...in Canada, Paul Martin was voted in as PM literally because of how Toronto voted (all Toronto ridings but one went Liberal IIRC...if they all went Conservative it would've had a minorty governemt under Prime Minster Steven Harper). Whether or not that would've been better or worse is not the point--it's that under the Canadian system, someone can lead the nation with less than 40% of the popular vote and rely on concentration of votes to the point where A SINGLE CITY can be the kingmaker. And people wonder why Albertans are so grumpy politically, Quebec continuously threatens to secede from Canada and the Premier of Newfoundland storms out of meetings with the PM?
The Constitution says the one with a majority of electoral votes serves as President. So even if Bush is claiming victory and Kerry is conceding defeat, if the provisional ballots in Ohio cause a turn around in the count, (however unlikely) then Kerry would have to serve as President. The Constitution says nothing about a candidate winning by concession from the other candidates.
It's very unlikely, but in the event that this did happen, you would see a very nasty temper tantrum from the current administration. You could count on them suddenly reversing their position on a Strict Interpretation of the Constitution.
Dammit, you people are really starting to piss me off. The Midwest is not liberal (as much as I wish it were). Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Nebraska, the Dakotas, Missouri, Iowa, Minnesota, Arkansas, Louisiana; those are midwestern states. Do you see an overwhelming Liberal population in this list? Ohio and Michigan are not Midwestern states! You're speaking like a true coast-hugger. Everything west of Buffalo, NY is considered "Midwest" by an east-coast-hugger. Everything east of the Las Vegas, NV is considered "Midwest" by a west-coast-hugger. Outside of your second paragraph everything is mostly right.
SoCalDem has done a statistical analysis... ...on several swing states, and EVERY STATE that has EVoting but no paper trails has an unexplained advantage for Bush of around +5% when comparing exit polls to actual results.
In EVERY STATE that has paper audit trails on their EVoting, the exit poll results match the actual results reported within the margin of error.
So, we have MATCHING RESULTS for exit polls vs. voting with audits
vs.
A 5% unexplained advantage for Bush without audits.
Maybe Dubayah believes God will see him through this, but it's going to take more than blind faith to pull the wool over the data and the facts.
Message to fellow Americans:
Special thanks to Micheal Moore, George Soros and Moveon.org. We appreciate your wacko left propaganda. It help Americans realize how far out the left really is.
Message to Canadians:
Cut it out with the penis envy; we've heard it already.
Message to Europe:
Fuck ya!
Yeah, so im throwin a mass suicide at my house later today. Email me for directions.
How is the parent modded 'flamebait', and the grandparent not? The parent contained no personal insults and no swearing -- it was as calm a rebuttal as could be. The grandparent is full of childish personal insults and rampant swearing, and is far more a candidate for 'flamebait' than the parent. I think that given most of the replies to the grandparent are flames, that it is far more likely to be 'flamebait' than the parent, which has facilitated intelligent discussion.
He was defeated here in his race for US Congress. He posted this on his web site Monday. Well worth listening to - no matter what side of what isle/line/issue you stand on.
"We are divided as a state and as a nation. Tuesday evening's results might widen that division, to our collective detriment. Many say that the decision we make at the polls on November 2nd is the most important in our lifetime. I disagree. I think that the decision we make on November 3rd on how to act with the previous day's results is even more vital to our future.
Please join me on Tuesday evening - and every day after - in focusing on the opportunities we face and the work we must do instead of allowing healthy skepticism to spiral into irreversible cynicism. No matter who our new leaders are and no matter what you think of them, we cannot afford to battle for another two or four years between "us" and "them." Win or lose, we all need to roll up our sleeves and get to work." - Ted Ladd
http://www.laddforwyoming.com/
As an aside - the incumbant Rebuplican won that election.
Senior NCO in the fight against entropy. I've seen things, man. Things no one should have to see.....
1. Get your brother's and father's friends to steal the election for you and become president
2. Clear brush on your ranch all summer, ignoring warnings that bin Laden wants to fly airplanes into buildings (until he does)
3. Convince your gullible voter base that you have made them safer because it only happened once and win re-election
4. Profit!!!
The existence of the electoral college implies that the federal government is a creation of the states. The federal government is a creation of the PEOPLE.
Regardless of the outcome of this election, I would have still wanted the electoral college to be abolished.
+++ATH0
"One thing that is very strange is how much the exit polls differed from the final results, especially in Ohio. Remember that Ohio uses Diebold voting machines in many areas. These machines have no paper trail. Early in the campaign, Diebold CEO Walden O'Dell, a GOP fundraiser, promised to deliver Ohio to Bush. He later regretted having said that."
> The electoral college ensures this since electoral representation is determined based on raw population data from the census.
This is not exactly true as, "Each State is allocated a number of Electors equal to the number of its U.S. Senators (always 2) plus the number of its U.S. Representatives (which may change each decade according to the size of each State's population as determined in the Census)." http://www.fec.gov/pages/ecworks.htm
So small states actually get more electoral votes per person than larger states. In the example below D.C. gets 3 electoral votes representing 570,000 people while California gets 1 electoral vote for each 616,000 people.
For Example:
California
pop = 33,900,000
electoral votes = 55
each electoral vote represents 616,000+
Texas
pop = 20,900,000
electoral votes = 34
each electoral vote represents 615,000
Ohio
pop = 11,400,000
electoral votes = 20
each electoral vote represents 570,000
Tennessee
pop = 5,700,000
electoral votes = 11
each electoral vote represents 518,000
District of Columbia
pop = 570,000
electoral votes = 3
each electoral vote represents 190,000
NOTE: Data from 2000 census http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/
Here lies wisdom.
Rest In Peace.
Personally I don't like Bush at all, I genuinly dislike him and would rather have "Not Bush" be president.
But Kerry was unelectable. Not because he is bad or evil or anything stupid like that, but rather because his only belief was "Bush was wrong." Without Bush there to be wrong he had nothing to say. Heck if he said "We should shoot all republicans and burn all Churhes in the country" I would have had more respect for him because he would have had some beliefs. I would not agree with him, but I would have had more respect for him.
==>Lazn
I for one do not salute our old fear-mongering, xenophobic, crusading overlord.
Your contender in the meeting was saying that Bush has authorized the rape and murder of millions in Iraq. The number is much lower than that, but her interpretation of what has happened is akin to Hitler in WWII. He personally did not kill millions, but he authorized it. If you feel that Bush was innocent, then you feel that Hitler was innocent.
Also, you are doing exactly what you say you dislike: voting for someone specificaly because of 'hate'. You dislike the hatred from democrats so much that you voted against them. You're a hipocrite!
http://github.com/gbook/nidb
OK Dems... get your spinless, gutless, indecisive butts on an airplane and fly off to Canada, France or some other hippy liberal enclave and play the part of the liberal, enlightened elitist while real Americans (such as me an dubya) kick some Towel Headed Terrorist ass.
Compare the states' current election results with states' past policies, and you can see how attitudes of the past carry over to influence decisions of the present. States afraid of minorities yesterday are afraid of gays and women today (Bush voters stated that anti-gay, anti-abortion "morality" was the most important issue in America, more than war or the economy). Fear is unfortunately the most easily cultivated factor in American decision making.
I hear alot of complaining from Demo-types (mostly coastal, no doubt), about how disenchanted they are with the "red states" taking over.
Consider: the whole American system of government is _designed_ to allow for big differences in how each State runs its affairs. Back in the Civil War days, the _Dems_ were the champions of States Rights (for bad reasons, but still...) -- it was the 'Pubs who wanted strong centralized government. Perhaps now, the "old North" should come around -- appreciate the wisdom of decentralization. Let the red states have their Christian conservative style of government (outlaw abortion, teach creationism, have prayer in public schools, capital punishment, etc). The coastals (aka blue states) can have a more _liberal_ style (gay marriage, medical marijuana, etc.) The States would then be in (more) competition with eachother -- a true marketplace of ideas.
That is, this _could_ all happen if States Rights were truly respected. Unfortunately, the central government takes in too much tax revenue, and so it has too much power. The Supreme Court has also done its part to dilute the power of the States.
When you have a big country like the US, strong central government -- winner takes all -- leads to excessive political friction. The regional differences are too great.
Michigan: "The union of one man and one woman in marriage shall be the only agreement recognized as marriage or similar union for any purpose." (emphasis mine)
Ohio: "This state and its political subdivisions shall not create or recognize a legal status for relationships of unmarried individuals that intends to approximate the design, qualities, significance or effect of marriage."
I'll let you fill in the other nine.
Heck, nominate Obama in '08, and I guarantee he'll get my vote, and I've voted Bush twice now.
That is, unless he's up against Powell...that'd be an awesome race.
As a resident and citizen of another country I can tell you that I have much more respect for those with truly American courage who are not afraid of taking the risk to remove dictators from power
than of those preferring waiting.
Bush is not smart and made a lot of errors
but he is man of action and I respect it.
I am a European with memory - if not for
American action we would be speaking German or Russian now. It is also tough Reagan's 'star wars' what economically killed USSR.
Here's the link.
An excerpt related to what I said:
---
There was also a decided income divide: Those earning $50,000 or less resoundingly backed the Massachusetts senator (56 percent to 43 percent), while respondents with a higher annual income were more likely to back the president.
---
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Up until yesterday, you got the benefit of the doubt: you surely couldn't predict what a newly-chosen president was going to do, especially with the 9/11 aftermath... When the day comes to hold him accountable for his actions, you don't...
I'm really wondering if the average US citizen is really convinced that George W. Bush did a good job and is the best choice to represent them for another four years.
Just mindboggling...
Okay... I'll do the stupid things first, then you shy people follow.
[Zappa]
"...when you give it your all and it isn't good enough, you're still a loser."
No. When you give it your all and it isn't good enough, and you think that makes you a loser, you're a fool. Your own candidate's speech to his supporters acknowledges that you don't have to be a loser just because you didn't win the race.
But I have to agree, you talk like a loser. You scoff at your grandmother because she believes in God and anything the TV says. [1] So you decide this makes her a fool, and the only other people you know who voted for Bush (or against Kerry) are racist bigots who fear change. Ah, yes, the "Anyone who disagrees with me is stupid or evil" approach to life.
Your religion (I'm not quite sure what it is... liberalism, the DNC, We Are The World, Might Makes Right, whatever) has failed you, and you're bitter. Perhaps that's more a sign that you need to reevaluate what you believe in than anything else.
You don't have to be a loser. You seem to have chosen to e one, anyway. Yeah, that's something to be depressed about. But maybe you should go have a long talk with your grandma (whether you agree with her or not, the perspective is good), reevaluate, and decide to get on with life. You'll be a much happier person. And you won't be a loser.
Being a loser is a choice.
[1] I know the major news media outlets are mostly crap, but the crap cuts both ways, and there is still actual news in there.
The dolt is still in the house.
Anyway I'm glad it happened this way... everything would have stayed the same with Kerry, so at least 50% of the US and 95% of the world (if it counts) knows they have a fucktard as president in the US.
...I am sorry to hear that you lost faith in God by watching men.
--psst!!-- If you haven't noticed; Men are not perfect. That is why they are not God.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to govern any other" -John Ada
(Note: Americans are dumb is not an acceptable answer.)
u _exp_all_stu
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/edu_dur_of_ed
Americans are not dumb but they are not as educated as they should be. Unfortunately many of the Democratic policies depend on logic and looking at the facts. So then they are left with either having good policies such as separation of church and state or winning an election.
By the way I would not say this is a "big" loss. Look at Clinton or Reagan elections... you need some perspective.
that if a candidate ran on a platform of "I hate baseball and apple pie, and I eat babies for breakfast", 51% of the voters would still vote for him if he was nominated by the Republican party. Most people know nothing about any "issues", they just know how to pull the red or blue lever like they're told. And, before I get flamed, the Democrats are no less guilty, they're just slightly less numerous.
Well you certainly do if you believe that. And still the Democrats wonder why they lost this election. It is this general elitism and malice (towards our own people even) that drives undecided voters away from the liberals and into the arms of the conservatives.
Regardless of your political beliefs, it is pretty sick that you are so petty that you think we deserve to get attacked because Kerry didn't win. You're like a child who's lost a video game and wants to break the machine. Grow the fuck up.
Nice work! But in order to get to the top of the hall of fame, we need over 4183! Keep posting! Offtopic is irrellevent, we need your posts!
That Bush has the support of the majority of the country is an undeniable fact, therefore he knows he has their trust and confidence.
Republicans now control both the House and Senate. With a Republican President coupled with these, they will have absolute authority, we are a one party system for now.
Because Bush has the undeniable trust of the majority of people, and the ability to really pass whatever legislation he wants, he will in my opinion do things that will overshadow anything negative he has done in the past.
However to be fair if he actually creates something good, well then we all know who was right.
But I think this is the start of the downfall of the unipolarity system in this world. I believe unipolarity can be maintained if that country is being responsible, however when you start expanding and creating an empire in the middle east (2 countries now officially), the collective security of the weaker states can overturn the US.
We have the global North and the global South. The global North are countries like US, countries in Europe, and basically most countries above the hemisphere (Australia is a notable exception, they are included in the Global north), the global south consists of the very poor countries south of the hemisphere. We have countries from both the Global North AND Global South hating us. This is not good, and I think Bush will only further aggravate this problem.
I couldn't exactly describe the feeling I've had all day... until I saw a poster on another site mention it, and it hit me when I'd last felt this way before. And I don't know why it is, but all day, I've felt the same way I did the day of 9/11/2001. ... I can't really say why, though....
"Now we're getting to Science -- I love this!" -- Dr. Steven Chu, Energy Secretary confirmation hearings.
America has always been on the progressive march as a whole. But we are very cautious due to morals and ethics...unlike Europe who just dives right in. When it comes to wartime, Americans value the hardline and down-to-earth decisions of a republican in office. But once this World War 3 is over (Global terror) expect America to start voting Democratic again.
Life is not for the lazy.
"But what tangible affect on the day-today lives of those Christians do those issues really have? None. None at all. They're not gonna get an abortion, nor will they marry a same-sex partner."
Really? Maybe, maybe not. However regardless of one's position on the issues. Historically humanity has a poor record of judging the consequences of their actions. So I'd be careful making any kind of absolutes.
"Never mind his obvious lying and the smear campaign during the election. Never mind the dubious war we're waging, the jobs fleeing over seas, or the the US's growing debt. Nevr mind that Molly Morman's kids can be sent to war next week, so long as we have a president strong on "morals" who might get R. v. W. overturned by the supreme court and amend our most important rights-protecting document to exclude a segment of the population."
There were some libertarians who advocated overturning R & W, and moving the abortion issue from the federal level to the states. So we really can't say this is just a "Bush" position. And speaking of altering a "most important rights-protecting document", what about the libertarian bid for president?
My comment regarding mental capacity of gay folk who decide to put down roots in the rural red states still stands.
goto http://rizzn.com
Arggh!
I get annoyed everytime I hear about how Bush ran away with the popular vote. It was 51/48 for Christ's sake! Reagan/Mondale was a runaway election, this one was actually pretty tight.
This is a good point, and there is something of a historical parallel. In 1992, after years of Conservative rule, the Tory party managed to win the UK general election despite being behind in the polls (even the exit polls) and generally being less popular than herpes.
Five years of corruption and incompetence later, the Labour party (with a new charismatic leader) won a record-breaking landslide and the Tories look to be finished as a political force.
Try to learn from our mistakes however by not selecting a right winger as the Democrat nominee.
It would, however, be a very touch political maneuver to explain to the American people how you ended up winning the election, even after conceding it.
It's not like it hasn't been tried before.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Somebody call the whaaaaaaaaaaaaambulance. "Mommy, it's my turn to play prez!".
Here's a hint: That's why there are elections _every four years_, einstein. Dig?
Okay... I'll do the stupid things first, then you shy people follow.
[Zappa]
Enlist then, grab an AK-47 and get some action in your own ass, idiot. You know what follows religious/ideological crusades when they fail? (And they have always failed..) If not, look up in a World history book.
I guess this just proves that America is destined for failure. I mean the hillbilly vote was through the roof owing to there natural tendancy to breed like rabbits. By comparison, more educated people seem to not have as many children (let alone have a girlfriend). I didn't really have a point here. Oh well. In Soviet Union, chad hangs you.
Where I said "ballot", i meant to say "urn". (Sorry, English is not my first language).
And it never occured to you that it was European imperialism that drove all those native Americans away? Alas, it makes sense you would blame the US for things that happened before it existed.
The Democrats will never succeed by employing a platform of hatred vocalized by agents such as Michael Moore and Paul Begala. It did not work against Regean and it won't work now. The Republicans learned some valuable lessons when their attacks on Clinton backfired. However, the Democrats appear to be too arrogant to evolve.
Europeans were wringing their hands in the early 80's that Regean would initiate the destruction of the planet. All of the vitriol from that period was forgotten when Eastern Europe was liberated and the cold war was won. Now Europe is again nervous that America is embarking on another epic battle to bring democracy and freedom to the Middle East. I suspect that when those tyrannical governments start to fall and their citizens taste freedom, Europeans will soon forget how much hatred they held for Bush.
No worries tho'. As nature abhors a vacuum, Democrats and Europeans will eventually find something new to hate about Americans that do not share their current perspective on the world.
I thought the London bookmakers odds were the best indicator of a narrow Bush win. It is very difficult to judge from the polls anymore. They have turned into a device the media in the US uses to mold public opinion.
an ill wind that blows no good
I just don't understand what people's opinions on why we went to war have to do with the actual reasons. Since none of the given reasons make any sense, wouldn't it follow that there must be other reasons that weren't politically appropriate for general knowledge. What benefit to Bush would there be to go to war for no real good reason? The press isn't very good at making leaps of insight, so you need to dig into the intelligence community to get the real answers.
George Friedman of Stratfor wrote a book on the intelligence (or lack there of) behind the events of the last three years and comes to a conclusion as to why we invaded Iraq, and it's not for any of the reasons we've heard.
You want to know why we invaded Iraq??
We physically needed Iraq's real estate to intimidate Saudi Arabia into cracking down on Al Queda, and establish an overwhelming presence in the region to deter Al Queda from enhancing its position in the Middle East.
That's it in a nutshell.
Read the book for the underlying intelligence: America's Secret War.
I seriously can't believe that some of you (and there's been more than one post of this kind) are talking about civil war and killing people just because your guy lost. Isn't that the very hot-button issue you hate Bush for? Grow the hell up.
I'm one of the 2,816,501+ Texans (38%) whose vote for Kerry was counted as a vote for Bush because of the flawed electoral college system. If I was feeling adventurous, I'd sue the state for misrepresenting my vote and try to get the allocation method changed.
The sad part is: if all states went to proportional electoral votes, Bush would have still won this election 280 to 258.
when is the draft?
Pubcrawler.ca
.
That's one thing that you republicans have in common with Al Qaeda. You both want to live in the past and turn your back on social and scientific progress.
The idea of calling Kerry an idiot is ridiculous. He may not play the political game as well as Bush, but it's clear from the debates that he's much, much smarter than Bush.
Call Kerry wishy-washy. Call him unclear. Call him a flip-flopper. Call him boring. But when you support Bush, don't call Kerry an idiot. That's just silly.
The American people voted for a president that presided over an economy that produced a record current account deficit, a record trade deficit, a record budget deficit and a national debt of such proportions that the IMF says they threaten the world economy.
Who ever said all that Americans ever care about is money?
"Anyone that has ever gotten an idea based on any of my work and done something better with it-good for you."--J.Carmack
It's more like half.
Half of us want to attack countries when they may be a threat to us at some point in the future. Half of us don't.
Half of us want "strong moral values" imposed on everybody, the other half thinks the government should keep its nose out of our personal lives.
Half of us see no problem with supporting the death penalty while opposing abortion, the other half doesn't believe zygotes are children, and believes all sentient human lives are valuable.
All of us think the media and Hollywood is biased. Some think it's biased towards the left. Some think it's biased towards the right. Some think it's biased towards profits.
In 4 years time, we'll see what wonders a Republican president who doesn't have to worry about re-election, a Republican senate and a Republican congress can do. Might as well start sending your taxes directly to their corporate sponsors.
A Bill Clinton in his prime would've eaten Bush for lunch.
There are so many obvoius jokes that could be made on that statement, it's barely worth the post pointing out how many there are.
And, for a limited time only, you get to sniff CowboyNeal's underwear!
I see everyone's theories here, ideas that moral issues are more important than economic. Ideas that people are just voting for their party, no matter what. Ideas that the Republican party is just better at campaigning.
To all these theories, there is just one thing you have to explain... Clinton defeated George Bush Sr. If people vote for morality, that shouldn't have happened. If people vote for defense, that shouldn't have happened. If people voted their party, that shouldn't have happened.
Besides that, Kerry is a Catholic, against gay marriage, and practically a clone of the president on Iraq, and defense in general.
Now, I'd like to hear some theories that actually take reality into account.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
"had to be done"
Then, by chance, I happened upon a very interesting article by Phil Agre: http://polaris.gseis.ucla.edu/pagre/conservatism.
Don't forget NPR which is funded by the tax payers.
The reality is that people tune in when they identify with what they hear and the "right wing" media does not need any charity to survive other than the ad revenue resulting from its popularity.
"Left wingers" have nothing to say, just whining, as this thread demonstrates.
"Consider the virtual slavery we inflict on populations to get our designer jeans made (Kathy Lee weeps for you, children)."
Or the weakness of those governments to say no, or dictate a sane policy concerning them.
No one holds a monopoly on blame.
You're a fucking dick.
Anyone who whines about being modded down should be.
...what happens when one state offers better benefits than another state? Unlike many countries of the past (and even some of the present), you don't need "papers" to pack up and move to another state.
Fine, you say, so people move to where the benefits are better. But exactly how is the state-with-better-benefits supposed to pay for all of these additional people? Assuming (based on current evidence) that these people are not contributing their "fair share" to the cost of such services, it quickly leads to one of two situations: either the state in question goes bankrupt or it radically cuts (even eliminates) services to balance the load. Regardless of which, everyone loses. The unfortunate pack up again and move to the next best state, which eventually collapses under the added load, and so forth until the entire country is in shambles.
I see only three ways to avoid such a scenario: prevent the free movement of people from state to state (unlikely, even under the current administration); eliminate social services in their entirety (popular with many folks, I'm sure, but near-certain political suicide for any politician who even brings the subject up); or maintain the centralized system.
With a centralized (federal) system of benefits, it doesn't really matter if you live in a "wealthy" state (e.g., California) or a "poor" state (e.g., Arkansas) -- your benefits are the same either way.
"I came here to kick ass and chew bubblegum. I'm all out of bubblegum." MSE USC APX AIA CSI CASp
Actually, even just western Europe, consisting principally of France, Germany, and Britain.
It notably does not include Russia - most of whose population lives (I believe) in Europe - and whose leader (Putin) supports Bush. It also does not consist of many of the central and southern European countries who have done the same.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
...because he's one of their guys. And is there any real doubt that Hillary isn't the Democratic frontrunner for 2008 now? The joke in Iowa is that she was seen condo-shopping in the state.
I think he's a disaster for the Dems, so as a Republican, I obviously want him to stay. But the REAL verdict on McAullife comes in 2008. If Hillary wins, he stays a party power broker. If Hillary loses, THEN you'll see a massive shakeup in the Democratic Party. That year will be the moment of truth; who should control the Democratic agenda? The Clinton gang, or the newly emergent Howard Dean-style hardliners that inhabit the likes of Democratic Underground? That election will tell the tale.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
"I'd like to take this opportunity to wish Michael Moore and every other liberal pussy out there a great big FUCK YOU."
"And now, Frank N. Furter, your time has come. Say 'goodbye' to all of this, and 'hello'... to oblivion!"
Democracy is one sheep and two wolves voting on what's for lunch.
It's just starting.
Bush agenda:
Overturn Roe vs Wade
Patriot Act 2
Draft (already in place by not allowing retirement)
Overturn every piece of environmental legilation.
Overturn every civil liberties/rights bill that big business doesn't like.
Scuttle Social Security (not that Kerry was any better than this).
No same sex marriage rights (actually I could care less about this, since gays average in the 85th percentile economically-they screwwed up Kerry by pushing for marriage about 10 years too early).
Etc.
I hope he really lets loose and does every crazy thing he imagines Jebus is telling him to do. I hope he gets on the radio every week and summarizes how that week's direct conversations with God went. I hope he and the Republicans attack more countries, enact more loathsome restrictive limitations to our freedoms, and blatantly whore our nation to the corporate overlords.
Maybe, just maybe, if they go far enough, the idiots who voted them in will start to see why they're wrong.
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
You are all a load of nerds! That is why Kerry lost and why you all are fat and unemployed! FUCK YOU ALL!
All states that voted Kerry SHOULD DISOLVE ALL TIES WITH THE BUSH REGIME IN THE UNITED STATES TO FORM THE UNITED DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF AMERICA!
If Bush and his blind ignorant masses want to support the terrorist with their support of Israel and the mindless murder of over 100,000 innocent Iraqi lives...let them face the piper alone.
SECEDE FROM THE UNION KERRY STATES SO THOSE WHO WANT PEACE AND ECONOMIC PROSPERITY CAN HAVE IT!
SECDE FROM THE UNION!
As far as citizens' votes are concerned, there is no such thing as a "federal election". We are a country of united separate states (hence the United States). The Constitution (yeah that silly old thing) specifically grants states sovereignty and power over themselves. The states must abide by the US Constitution and Federal laws, but most of what they legislate is completely up to them. Concerning the election, it is not 280+ million Americans voting in a federal election, it is 50 states casting their weighted vote as a part of the Union. The difference is subtle, but very large.
I know this is low enough down that no one will read it, but I had to bitch. I can't believe the man who pulled troops out of Afghanistan before the hunt for OBL was over is still commander-in-chief. I know it does not really matter to me in a way. I've kept my job through the crappy economy, I have no children of age, and I'm not likely to be anywhere near OBL's next target. But I feel for those people who have been and will be affected.
Once again I am seeing if anyone will read this post or just randomly post without reading the topic/links/posts often repeating the same FUD or BS that someone else has already posted.
They may not want you living next door to them, but they're perfectly happy to force their beliefs on you.
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
I don't respond well to propaganda. If I did, I'd be republican.
Uhhh, you can't be serious.
Propaganda is coming from the left my friend. It was the liberals who said that Edwards and Cheney were equally matched in the VP debate - when clearly Cheney _smoked_ Edwards and wiped the floor with his ashes.
It was liberals who kept saying Kerry was so far ahead in "the polls" when he clearly was not keeping up. Propaganda is a euphemism for lying and the lying left were pushing their untruths trying to sway the tide of this election - And got HAMMERED. Lost the Presidential race, lost members in the House overall, and lost members in the Senate overall...
So WHO is in Fantasy Land?
I grew up in the midwest and now live in the bible belt and I can tell you with complete certainty the majority of the people I know don't give a shit about the facts or reality. Most of them still believe saddahm worked with the terrorists that blew up the wtc, that abortion is their decision for everyone, that gay marriage is their decision for everyone, that "faith" should be their decision for everyone because "they are right." Most of the people around here, in fact, are believers in all that second coming bullshit - to them chaos in the mideast is a GOOD thing because it "clears the way for jesus." These goddamned wackos want nothing more than to see the world vaporized in a cloud of thunder, and this administration is not only catering to their whims, it's preaching those wacko beliefs from the state department.
Fuck your hypocritical "beliefs."
I don't feel like that at all--I'm more worried about my countrymen being seen as history's next Nazis.
> I can't praise Dems for thinking Kerry was
> the right choice,
It wasn't the democrats - it was Iowa. Once that caucus was over, Kerry was selected.
I ask: what Democrat would Utah or Montanna have voted for?
With any luck, the Democrats will run the silly caucus like election - same day vote for everyone. I don't want a bunch of Iowains picking the next candidate.
"I hope that happens in my lifetime. In the mean time I think I'll move to Canada and wait it out."
*sigh*
For a bunch of smart people. you all can be remarkably dumb? First to start with. the president isn't "the government", he's only a small but visable part. Second the one's you really should have been worrying (and influencing) is congress. Even if we had gotten Kerry, he would have had to jump to congressional hoops to get things done (that's the way the system's designed). Yes the president can choose supreme court judges, BUT they still have to be approved by congress (or have you all forgotten about Clarence Thomas?). And last, no one has ever solved a problem by running away from it. You run, you lose not only your citizenship, right to complain, but also any benifits gained by those that had the courage to stay, and make change (now you know why unions hate nonunion members. Gain all the benifits without any of the work)
move to Canada part too. You wanna move here? Go right ahead. We have been having a "Liberal" (centre left, kind of like Canadian Democrats) government that is myred in scandal and mismanagement (another word for what they're doing is theft). Liberal with our cash they are. Yet they keep winning the federal elections. I am seriously sick of you "smart" people thinking that left leaning is automatically better. If I were in the States I'd vote Bush and my IQ is well above average. Look at Clinton. What fscking good did he do for anybody? The recession started during his term in office so he wasn't really a boon for the economy. He ignored Osama during his entire stay in office even after the first attempt at the WTC and the US embasies in Africa. That complacence culminated in 9/11. Oh, wait, he decoded the human genome, right? What makes you think that Kerry would be any different? He's as amituous as Clinton and surrounded with Clinton people. Also a political marriage like Clintons. If you were any smarter you'd realize that these guys have themselves on their minds and not you or anybody else. Clinton was hell bent on getting into history books and not really doing anything real. I am *sick* of those "liberals" and "democrats" (note that I am very much liberal leaning in my beliefs, just the *liberal* parties today aren't really my cup of tea).
Edelweiss, Edelweiss,
Every morning you greet me,
Small and white,
Clean and Bright,
You look happy to meet me.
Blossoms of snow may you bloom and grow,
Bloom and grow forever,
Edelweiss, Edelweiss,
Bless my homeland forever.
How can it be that this country's "moral compass" is so screwed up that it's okay for the president to start a war in a country (which never attacked us or even threatened to attack) that leaves 100,000 civilians and 1,000 US soldiers (and rising) dead, while it's grounds for impeachment to have oral sex in the oval office? When did sexuality become so forbidden that the Statue of Justice was covered up solely because it had an exposed female breast? When was it that personal freedoms and the right for each person to follow their own beliefs and define their own sense of right and wrong fell to making sure that everyone followed the hard-core Christian rules of life (as opposed to the reasonable "help your neighbor and love them as yourselves" Christian rules of life), even if these rules are not compatible with their own beliefs? Since when did we go from "equal rights" to "equal rights to everybody but homosexuals?"
How can it be that people believe that Bush will do a better job of keeping America safe? This seems incredible, considering he already had his shot to protect this country in September of 2001 and he failed it. It is interesting that New York, Pennsylvania, and Washington DC, the three areas of the country that were directly affected by the attacks on September 11th, all voted for Kerry. Yet many people feel that Bush is the person to keep them safer. Why? What has he done to earn this reputation? Certainly, it's not that he went maverick and attacked a sovereign nation with no ties to our attackers. Maybe it's how we gave up on the search for Bin Laden, who was known to be our enemy to attack someone else who didn't attack us. Terrorists, by definition, exist to instill terror into the hearts of a populace, and they did it. Mission accomplished. Our country has been irrevocably scared, and that fear has been used, abused, and manipulated by our administration to keep us under control, and to convince us that it is necessary give up some of our vital, fundamental American freedoms (via the PATRIOT Act, for instance) to keep us "safe." No society should ever have to give up its freedoms. In fact, every republic and democracy in history that has fallen did so because they gave up their freedom for security.
How can it be that the people of this country believe that a man who reduced limitations on mercury emissions (which cause birth defects in surrounding areas), who opened up old-growth forests for clear-cutting, and who gives tax breaks to people who buy gas-guzzling SUVs is helping the environment? Perhaps it's that he called the bills by names which imply that they are good measures, when they are not.
How can it be that a person who changed his mind repeatedly on everything from education to stem cell research to whether Osama Bin Laden was really important, who kept reading a children's book for a photo opportunity even after learning that America was under attack, and who skipped out on the Vietnam war in a sneaky (but sadly legal) way could paint Kerry as being a flip-flopping weakling with a bad war record? And how are the people gullible enough to believe that Kerry did not rightly and justly deserve the three Purple Hearts, a Bronze Star, and various other ribbons that he won in that terrible war? With everyone from his swift boat giving first-hand reports of how heroic and noble he was during the war, how can people believe such things?
How can it be that people have become so resistant to ideas that are not their own? When did "Freedom of Speech" become "Freedom to say only good things about the US government?" Why do people immediately label dissenters as Un-American, when speaking out against the government is one of the greatest freedoms that our country allows us? Since when did "liberal" become an insult? If it weren't for liberals, minimum wage would be lower, blacks and women would still be unable to vote, and slavery would still exist. Liberals are the people who have fought for progress in this country (by sheer Webster Dictionary
BTW, obesity correlates with prosperity. There's a reason why Americans are the fattest people in the world. It's because we're the richest. It's hard to get fat when you're going to bed hungry every night and your job is hard physical labor.
And liberty is a well armed sheep contesting the vote.
Everyone who claims to support one candidate over another needs to pass this test:
Without mentioning the other candidate, write 3 things you like about your candidate.
Can Democrats pass this test? Can you come up with one thing you like about Kerry?
I will start: Here is what I like about Bush:
1) He is not a lawyer
2) He has a vision of spreading democracy in the middle east
3) He has the courage to back up his convictions with action
Now come up with 3 for Kerry, without mentioning Bush.
"American intelligence" is one of those things like "military intelligence" and "jumbo shrimp." And the irony, of course, is that the word describing this includes the word "moron."
Living in the bible belt I can tell you most of the folks around here are just that. Most of them, in fact, are really little different than those "primitives" living in caves and calling for jihad. This country has become a superpower and is in real danger of becoming just another of those fundamentalist states bent on world destruction in the name of allah. Of course most around here will deny it because (just like those other guys) "they are objectively right and the others are wrong." They defend "right to life" but in reality want nothing more than to see us all dead, dead, dead. What do they care? After all, they'll be "raptured" before the bloody end - "let'em eat cake."
At least the USSR had the courtesy to be a "godless superpower." This nation is already well on the road to becoming exactly what it fears most: a fundamentalist "superpower."
"God" help us all.
I think this view is pretty much accurate but not all inclusive. There are many people in Europe who have reasons I do not know or understand for their beliefs but that is to be expected as I don't live there (but do have friends that do) and the /. portions are not truly representive either.
One thing I do know, you are not going to change our minds by constantly berating us. You will definitely not change the minds of those who voted for Bush, only harden their beliefs.
---
In London's Daily Telegraph, Janet Daley reflects on Bush-hatred as an expression of European anti-Americanism:
He is hated because he is the embodiment of everything that the United States is, and Europe is not: not just enormously powerful, militarily and economically, but brashly confident and fervently patriotic. Where Europe is steeped in historical guilt and self-loathing--so immersed in its own unforgivable past that it is trying to fashion a constitution that actually prohibits national pride--America is profoundly proud of the success of its own miraculous achievement.
---
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
So the "tyranny of the swing states" is better?
American history teaches us that many of the immigrants came here to escape religious persecution, or wanted to be self sufficent or for economic opportunity or for a more classless society.
It is pretty hard to sell leftwing ideals to a society which believes in upward class movement (look at some recent studies in which 20+% of people thought they would become rich), believes in hard work, and is one of the most religious western societies.
What benefits would it provide, to someone who works hard to improve themselves? One would have to appeal to ones ability for compassion, but how do you do that in a self centered consumer society which has no history of group cooperation? How can you convince someone that they don't deserve a new SUV or big TV that they have worked for (or put themseleves in debt for), so that someone else, may be able to get health care, or enough food to eat?
Where would funding come from to fund leftist programs? Obviously more taxes, because cutting military funding would take away from manufacturing and research jobs, and all of their supporting industries.
Bring back the old version of slashdot.
So exit polls are all _WRONG_ - :h tm)--
what are the odds statistically
-----
The exit polls were all horribly wrong. The blogosphere was basically calling a Kerry victory as soon as the polls closed. A Harris poll was also predicting Kerry. The exits had Kerry leading Bush among men by 51%-49%, and among women by 53%-47%. The final exits for Ohio had Kerry winning 52%-48%. Blogger Kevin Drum was saying that "in a way it's the ultimate in navel gazing. The bloggers all read the media and the media call bloggers to find out what they're reading."
---(http://207.44.245.159/article7211.
Perhaps it's not the exit polls that are _wrong_ ?
Funny, Insightful, and true.
Let's get one thing perfectly clear, I did not vote for George W Bush, and I do not endorse what he does or says.
"
All three major network anchors (Brokaw, Jennings and Rather) show strong liberal bias. Rather is the most transparent. Last night he winced often and came up with several longshot ways for Kerry to "still win" even though the numbers ought to have dissuaded him. Later, CBS had a professor named Richard Reeves who claimed on national television that the Bush Republicans push forward an agenda only for white, evangelical males.
An excerpt of a NY Times article (by Nicholas Kryztof) this morning:
If that quote isn't glib and inaccurate (and Left), then I don't know what is.
I don't wish to cite too many examples, but your argument about a Right Wing cabal controlling American media falls flat. Most journalists tend to be left of center and if you read a cross section of print media and listen to the talking heads on TV (not just Fox News), you would find that the US does have a good balance -- it just doesn't have a lot of good journalism period.
Most of your points about the benefits of unionism and nationalized health-care should be tempered with their drawbacks (we have to wait almost a year for an MRI in Canada -- most go to the US. Germany's stubborn unions are putting its economy at a standstill (the Economist has several articles ont this)). Anyhow, I don't think that we need more left-wing propaganda (been on a university campus lately?), I think we need a more balanced, skeptical media.
-- I'm embarassed to look like Hemos.
We deserve to get attacked again? That statement really hits a nerve to me. Does anyone deserve that kind of thing? If you think more attacks on America are going to help, I would like to enlighten you.
I think it is about time people owned up to the fact that the masses do not just vote on moral issues. The volume of reading can help you out on that. Huge questions over how the deficit will affect ours and the global economy was circulated. Issues about global trade, tax rates, education, and foreign policy were raised. I doubt that the average American is as dumb as you think. Yes, moral issues were a part of the debate. Why shouldn't they be? Besides, all you mean by "moral debate" is gay marriage and abortion. It was a big issue, but was it dominating? Hardly.
People stick with parties because of their platform. For instance, republicans are republicans because of a variety of reasons. Things such as smaller government and a larger private sector ring true for many concerned with economical and social issues. The two parties hardly imply a sheep following. Most Americans can tell you why they vote a certain way, and not as many are swayed as easily as you think.
America has become a scapegoat for all of the world's problems. Nevermind our economy, work skills, social/intellectual/technological impact, or tolerence for a number of groups of people. Blind statements about Americans being slack-jawed yokels with unresolved issues about the nasty-nasty with the same sex are the same as blanket statements about Americans being vastly superior in x/y/z.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here: I think we're all more or less equally stupid. We all tend to make the same generalizations on people, and act irrationally on them. We aren't going to get rid of each other any time soon, so stop the bashing, American or not, and get back to living your life.
Amen to that!! I voted for Bush but that doesn't mean I agree with all of his policies. You Europeans need to realize that a vote for a man doesn't mean he has carte blanche to run amok and do as he pleases while the nation shuts its eyes. Plenty of us here are watchful and mindful of waht the future may hold. I am pleased by the attitude taken by the parent poster and hope that the rest of us can act smiilarly. If I had mod points I'd definitely give you +1 Insightful!
What is your penile percentile?
I'm often baffled by people who can't conceive of anyone seeing issues differently than themselves, and who can't understand why someone might have different priorities than they do.
... possibly, but probably not. If you assume they are just stupid and there can't be a good reason to disagree with you, then you alienate yourself.
Here you've got 51% of the population who wants George Bush to be president. You voted against him. So all those people (51%) must be stupid right? After all they don't agree with you. If you honestly think like this, you probably stopped developing mentally at the tender age of 6.
There are a lot of issues that people disagree on vehemently. Your first step should be to understand why the people you disagree with see things differently than you do. Is it because they are stupid/crazy/bastards/wackos?
I've noticed this trend a lot here on slashdot. And if you'd like to keep thinking this way, by all means continue. But if you do, you'll see the next election decided by 4-5% instead of 3%. People don't like it when you look down on them because of disagreement. And that is enough to influence a vote.
Slashdot Syndrome: the sudden, extreme urge to correct someone in order to validate one's self.
That's an amazing fact, which I think says it all.
The power of Christ compiles you!
no way, dude!
filmcritic.com - Movie reviews on Internet time
Ah well, gotta love seeing all the wouldbe intellectuals spewing venom because they think they know what's best for their country.
Time to grow up, folks. The mass media lied to us blatantly and consistently, and we grew tired of it.
The US is rich and powerful, there's no denying that. But successful?
Sure, the US has much good about it -- but it's shortsighted ignorance to think that it can be simply claimed to be the most successful country in the world.
If success is about being respected in the world community, the US is not successful.
If success is about providing a good level of healthcare for, the US is not successful when compared to other western countries. I've lived in both places.
If success is about tolerance, the US is not successful. Tolerant nations don't have religiously motivated groups pushing to amend consitutions to marginalize people on the basis of their sexual orientation.
If success is about providing an example of a functioning democracy, the US is a stunning failure. Elections are based on money and disinformation rather than on truth an integrity.
If success is about fighting terrorism, then the US is scoring own goals, worsening situations which foster terrorism (look at the statistics of the number of terrorist attacks, even exluding those within Iraq).
If success is about being a peaceful nation, then the US is not successful -- while a war in Afghanistan might have been justifiable, international law doesn't provide a basis for invading Iraq for regime change (except to say that it's not permitted), and the other reasons turned out not to be true.
If success is about living within ones means, look at the skyrocketing US national debt.
If success is about a nation with a shrinking number of people living below the poverty line, the US isn't doing so well.
If success is about having an informed voting population with an understanding of foreign affairs, count the US out.
If success is about rational decision making, and respect for intelligence and honesty, then the US political system is lagging.
The US is feared, certainly, but not by wrongdoers so much as by peaceful people who fear the effect the US is having on world security (look at surveys showing that the US ranks up with its ally Israel as one of the biggest threats to world peace, in the opinions of many nations).
So don't tell us your unquestioned "success" is something to do with left/right wing tendencies. Understand that left- and right-wing don't even have universal meanings, but vary from country to country. And understand that the US is a rather sucky place to live in many ways, compared to others.
Since my regular vote had no effect on the presidency I am voting with my feet to leave this fascist country that attacks others with no provocation. I refuse to offer any more support in any way to this once great nation.
- Former Army Officer
Bring your bitch az over here and say that.
Nobody is _afraid_ of faggots. And being black is not a perversion, it's something that you're born with. Discriminating people based on the color of their skin is absurd, just as discriminating them on the color of their eyes.
However, calling faggots "normal" and allowing them to have "families" is just as absurd, whether you base your opinion on the Bible or on the Darwin theory. Let's lay down this one: men fucking each other in the ass are not normal, OK? Men fucking each other in the ass who want to get tax breaks (that were instituted to help families have children) and adopt children (who by all accounts need a mother _and_ a father to get proper upbringing) - are two levels of magnitude more abnormal.
I'm fine with them fucking each other in the ass, and I'm fine with the civil unions. However, I'm not fine with giving them tax breaks (there's simply no reason to do so) and allowing them to adopt children (which is why they want their unions to be legally accepted as "families").
Kerry's shown some integrity and spirit in his concession. Unfortunately, he - and the DNC - showed none when they were running his campaign. For some reason though that ignoring the issues and focusing on FUD was a good idea.
If you think for a second that Bush and the RNC showed any more integrity or spirit in their campaign than did Kerry and the DNC, then I'd love to get a lead on the illicit drugs you must be smoking.
Anyone with any objectiveness about them could see both sides were equally evil in this campaign--they just did it in slightly different ways. Personally, I felt Bush himself was a little less evil, and thus voted for him. At the same time, I wasn't fooled into believing that his campaign was any less vile or underhanded than Kerry's.
Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
The media is socially liberal. yes, they promote racial diversity. And like you, when I was a faithful conservative years ago, whenever I saw some gratuitous example of the media's obvious social-liberal bias, I would say "damn liberal media" to myself.
But you can see for yourself that the media is economically liberal. Here is how you can do: in the next year to two, the rightwing machine is going to be trying to rape the Social Security system. Well, they have been trying for years, but they are going to step up their efforts. So watch for what kind of possible solutions are presented to the phony SS crisis. What how often they mention the solution of decreasing benefits. What how often they mention raising the retirement age. Those two solutions are the favord Rigtwing solutions.
The leftwing favors different solutions. THe leftwing wants to raise the payroll tax cap from its present $87K to unlimited. Also the left favors raising the top tax rate paid by millionaires and use that revenue to pay the SS benefits.
You watch PBS CNN CBS NBC ABC MSNBC FOX et al, and you tell which solutions get mentioned again and again and again. I can already tell you which solutions. In fact, some of you have already noticed it too. And then tell me how often the leftwing solutions get mentioned. Please tell me if you hear the, because ever since I became convinced that the Left is right, I have been watching. And I NEVER see leftwing solutions mentioned on major tv networks.
eat shiat and bark at the moon
The Muslims in Srebrenica were supposed to be disarmed and under protection of the Dutch - so called "UN Safe Haven". Those Dutch were there doing nothing while the Muslims were running around the Serbian villages near Srebrenica burning, raping and decapitating (their captain Naser Oric is The Hague answering for those things right now). The complacent US and Europe didn't care because the victims were the bad Serbs. I am not trying to justify what ulimately happened to those Muslims, just explaining what complacency can lead to.
hell, just let the campaigners go to detroit, chicago and cleveland and they can tie up those three states!
Apparently' you're not familiar with the concept of population dispersion. Look at a county by county map of michigan, for example, and you'll see MOST of the state backed Bush. Yet michigan cast all its votes for kerry. why? Because MOST of the people in the state live in the metro detroit area, so the people in the country get to eat cake. Ohio and Chicago are the same way. So is NY, LA - just about every state has a major population center, but in some states the balance is really disproportionate.
Why should the candidates even bother with campaign stops? How many people actually show up for these hokey circle jerks, anyway? Most folks sit home and watch tv - the candidates don't even need to leave washington for that. Now that we have the web and literally anyone can speak their views those quaint "campaign stops" are even more a decadent waste of jet fuel.
One man, one vote is the only fair way. The "electoral college" was made obsolete by the communications revolution.
Your photography is mediocre. If I were you I'd take your photography site down.
Here's a headline from CNN from earlier today:
World leaders back 'whoever wins'
Doesn't this sound like something from the Daily Show or The Onion? Alas, it's a sad reality when the rest of the world doesn't have any balls. Where are all these highly opinionated Europeans now? Swallowed their tongues all of a sudden?
a "commie overlord".
I for one would not welcome them.
Please look at this map of the 2000 presidential election results broken down county by county. Hopefully you won't blame all of us southerners for this disaster. I wish I could find the same for the 2004 election.
n /map.asp
http://cabernet.caliper.com/Maptitude/2000Electio
By the way, I live in Georgia, and I am thoroughly pissed off at this president and arrived at the polls an hour before they opened to express my quiet rage.
3 reasons I supported Kerry.
1.Kerry doesn't have his head up his ass.
2.Kerry didn't go AWOL in Nam.
3.Kerry does have some common sense.
None of the above 3 mention Bush.(PS quit hiding behind the anonyous coward handle)
3 reason I hate Bush
1.The Patroit Act.
2.The Corruption shown in Bush's presidency.
3.Bush is an Idiot.(Personal Opinion)
Nuff said.
"There is something that ALL politicians despirately need--SHOT BETWEEN THE EYES"
Geek Hillbilly
Propaganda:
# The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.
# Material disseminated by the advocates or opponents of a doctrine or cause: wartime propaganda.
Tell me again how it's good to have your own propaganda, but everyone else's is bad?
How is it correct to fight something you don't agree with using the very same methods?
"Education" is the word for what you think must be done. And I'll agree, there seems to be an awful lack of it.
When someone graduates from high school in the U.S., they should know:
1. What the national debt is
2. What the deficit is
3. How the national debt is financed
4. Basics of economics (supply, demand, transaction costs, etc.)
5. What the Constitution and Bill of Rights say
6. How the Supreme Court has interpreted our rights
7. Why it is dangerous to erode rights -- even for good causes
8. The legislative processes and the checks and balances
If that were the case, the outcome of elections in this country would be profoundly different.
I'd rather trust an anti-war veteran than a warmongering deserter. Technically, Bush isn't a deserter, but using contacts to go into the national guard was clearly an attempt to avoid going to war, which is also what a deserter does (avoid going to war).
We all know that Kerry is a war hero, and we all know he's against war. He has been since Vietnam. This "We know nothing about Kerry" is just more republican propaganda.
We also all know that Dick Cheney makes money because of the war through Halliburton. Isn't it clear that this war doesn't exist to "spread democracy" or "chase terrorists", but to give money to friends of the republican party? Sure, corruption would also exist if Kerry would have won, but I doubt it would be THAT blatant.
I'm glad I'm not american. Here in Canada, most of us can clearly see the sillyness of this all.
perception is reality
Corrections In CAPS:
The media is socially liberal. yes, they promote racial diversity, AFFIRMATIVE ACTION, ABORTION AND GAY RIGHTS AND OTHER LIBERAL SOCIAL ISSUES. And like you, when I was a faithful conservative years ago, whenever I saw some gratuitous example of the media's obvious social-liberal bias, I would say "damn liberal media" to myself.
But you can see for yourself that the media is NOT economically liberal. Here is how you can do: in the next year to two, the rightwing machine is going to be trying to rape the Social Security system. Well, they have been trying for years, but they are going to step up their efforts. So watch for what kind of possible solutions are presented to the phony SS crisis. What how often they mention the solution of decreasing benefits. What how often they mention raising the retirement age. Those two solutions are the favord Rigtwing solutions.
The leftwing favors different solutions. THe leftwing wants to raise the payroll tax cap from its present $87K to unlimited. Also the left favors raising the top tax rate paid by millionaires and use that revenue to pay the SS benefits.
You watch PBS CNN CBS NBC ABC MSNBC FOX et al, and you tell which solutions get mentioned again and again and again. I can already tell you which solutions. In fact, some of you have already noticed it too. And then tell me how often the leftwing solutions get mentioned. Please tell me if you hear the, because ever since I became convinced that the Left is right, I have been watching. And I NEVER see leftwing solutions mentioned on major tv networks.
THAT IS JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF HOW YOU CAN PROVE THAT THE MEDIA IS NOT ECONOMICALLY LIBERAL. THE MAIN ECONOMIC LIBERAL ISSUES ARE TAXES (PROGRESSIVE TAXATION, WHERE THE TAX RATES RISE AS INOCOME RISES, AND TAXATION ON CAPITAL GAINS).
eat shiat and bark at the moon
I'm curious, though. Everyone is all over my terrorism comment, but nobody can refute my statement on economies?
Yes I can. Economic growth is not particularly linked to democratic forms of government. A stable society, with strong law and order, and fairly open international trade seem to be the biggest predictors. The Russian experiment with western-style democracy is now mostly over, but during that period their economy collapsed to roughly the same size as Belgium. Compare that with firmly non-democratic China, which has quadrupled it's economy since it opened to international trade in 1978; it is now the second largest economy in the world in local currency terms; and over the last 5 years has accounted for 1/4 of global economic growth.
hope this helps.
-- Nick "Hallo this is Beel Gates, und I pronounce weendows as
It started when our own troops first refused a mission in Iraq http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3748390.stm . This was the seed that thinking, professional, educated commanders will feed off of when they realize that their job is NOT to defend America, but simply to be Bush's THUGS. They are securing oil-rich territory with their lives so that Bush's people can get richer, and it won't take long until they fire him as their commander in chief.
Seriously, part of the problem here is that people bought into personal attacks that had nothing to do away with issues... Many of which were lies. We need to ban campaign commercials on TV and Radio and just have a series of debates throughout the campaign that are non-negotiated and open to any national party's candidate. Make them debate in public. Make them answer the tough questions. Put in Moderators who will hold every candidate's feet to the fire. Then we'll start to see an educated public make decisions.
Regards, Ian
I will not discuss it because of your obvious liberal bias. Shut up.
Just shut up. Shut up. Cut the mike.
In case you were living in your cube, frantically preparing your killer web page for when Jim Carrey won and brought back the dot com boom or perhaps you were frantically fixing Y2K bugs because you thought Jim Carrey would bring back Y2K compliance contracts, you figured out that the Democrats have nominated Hillary Clinton for president in 2008. She hit the campaign trail today.
The nomination of Hillary Clinton seems more like a last ditch, desperate attempt to get back into the game. She's literally all they have left, the only recognizable name who could possibly survive an election.
Most democrats seem to think the reason they waited this long before calling her up was because she was a sledgehammer being brought out to fix a watch. That's like baseball teams using the worst players and keeping the best players on the bench because the best players are overkill.
Hillary Clinton will run against a republican of much less fame in 2008. It's a mathematical certainty. Hillary Clinton winning is highly unlikely because
#1 gender views just aren't at the level of electing heroines for presidents and most democrats want to subsidize wife domestication not bring wives into the workforce.
#2 a wife who excused a cheating husband and continued to sleep in the same bed while the semen was still wet flat out doesn't have the conviction to make the kind of radical changes the democrats want to make.
...what has expatriating done to improve the situation in terms of both what's going on in the US and what we're doing to the rest of the world? It seems to me that a mass exodus of the (relative) left to Canada/EU/wherever would be the LAST thing that should be happening - it would give unquestioned control of the US and its attendant military and economic power to the Far Right, which seems to me to be a Very Bad Idea. Yes, one could argue that the path the Right is taking us down leads to inevitable economic and attendant military collapse, but that's all hypothetical rambling - do you REALLY want to leave the arch-conservatives in power with no real opposition anymore?
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
I don't know why I even read this page. It pisses me off to read comments from liberals or conservatives "moving to canada" if they don't get their way. It pisses me off reading opinions of liberals or conservatives who vote based on religion or lack there of. It pisses me off when liberals or democrats object to THE WAR.
To those who want to go to canada: GO, put your tail between your legs and go. You are a quitter, you will not fight for what you believe in you will quit and cry like a child not getting their way. You don't help this nation you divide it.
To those of you who are crying about Bush being a Christian or the "born again population of your state": Get over it. There are catholic priests fucking little boys, and there are atheist tv stars fucking little boys. No one said life is fair nor suggested it ever would be. Let the legal system sort them out and complain about that.
To the morons complaining about THE WAR: We didn't pick this fight. Do you think OBL, gave a fuck that there were atheists in the towers, do you think he gave a fuck that there were Muslims in the trade towers, do you think he gave a fuck that there were women and children in the trade towers, do you think he gave a fuck that there were catholic priests, tv stars, politicians, or his relatives in the trade towers?
Do you think he is the only one thinking this way?
The world brought the fight here!
GET IT?
Either your with us or not, PERIOD
WE DID NOT START THIS WAR. WE WILL FINISH
At which place doesn't matter unless your soon to be one of the Canadian immigrants.
Personally I love the USA, I hate its politics, religious or otherwise. I hate the party system.
And I'd be happy to be the first to put a bullet into the Osama Bin Ladens, Saddams, David dukes, michael jacksons, Rev. boy lovers, or any other radical person haters out there who has NO respect for the people in this world.
I'm not the President of the United States of America. I don't have the authority, knowledge, wisdom, or nuts to to run this country. George W. Bush, certainly is not the best president that we have ever had but he is OUR GOD DAMN MOTHER FUCKING LEADER, SO LISTEN WITH A LITTLE BIT OF DIGNITY TO WHAT HE SAYS. Stop criticizing his grammar. This is life not usenet. Stop complaining about his policy's. Its easy to talk the talk but who here has run the USA? Who here has seen whats on the books? Who here can be president? Deeds not words. Now get back to work before china becomes more productive than the US and takes over the world.
The biggest irony it seems that they voted on something which doesn't really exist at all...
0 901.stm
e.g.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/397
Deleted
Bush is also the first president since 1988 (yup, that was his dad) to get a majority of the popular vote.
I've been waiting for someone to repeat that soundbite. It's meaningless!
1992: Strong third-party candidate, so of course no one got a majority.
1996: Strong third-party candidate, so of course no one got a majority.
2000: Bush lost the popular vote, so of course he didn't get a majority.
2004: No strong third-party candidate. ANY winner would get a majority.
Here. I'll give you the other soundbite for free: More people voted for Bush than any other president in history.
The other half of that fact? More people also voted AGAINST Bush than any other president in history. There were more voters in general.
Both of these statistics are just designed to make 51% of the vote somehow seem like a Mandate, when of course it is not.
ARTIST: Neil Young
:
:
TITLE: Ohio
Lyrics and Chords
Tin soldiers and Bush are coming
We're finally on our own
This summer I hear the drumming
Votes counted in Ohio
/ Dm - F C /
Gotta get down to it
Soldiers are gunning US down
Should have been done long ago
What if you knew them and
Found them dead on the ground
How can you run when you know
/ Gm7 - / C - / Gm7 - C - /
Ok, just for the record, if 20 years from now we are still crusading around the world, and I decide that I don't want to send my son to die for half-baked imperial tendencies I would like to point out that I didn't support the warmongering in the first place!
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
You know, Clinton was in office and re-elected right before Bush. Arguably, Clinton is a democrat. Heh. Democrats are hardly losing big and consistently.
You guys are both wrong. There isn't anything inherently wrong with either side, and neither party is less intellegent than the other. Vote for what concerns you in your self-interest, but remember that not everyone is you. People vote for what is best for them. Calling people stupid because they acted in what they perceived as their best interests is hardly productive. If there is a better solution for them, by all means, get out there and argue why. People do respond intelligently to arguments, but your arguments have to make sense. Be specific, give examples, offer counterexamples. Don't make general statements and insult their mothers at the same time. I have a feeling neither of you have too many friends that aren't the same type of person as you.
Socialize. Interact. Other kinds of people exist. Other value systems are out there. Things make more sense than you might think.
I just discovered that my (public school) science teacher is a creationist, which really scares me since he controls my grade and I am an über-darwinist. Proof against evolution: Creationists still exist!
Thanks, suckers!
Gore won the popular vote and that's all that should matter. Structuring the votes via electoral college to suppress the voice of populated states and amplify the voice of the less popular states represents an obviously inaccurate view of majority. This is in no way fair.
This article should be required reading by all participants in any discussion of reforming the Electoral College.
...That the upcoming armageddon is a Buddhist one.
A Buddhist rapture
re-incarnation for all
come back as monkeys
as a non-US citizen I would like to add:
9. Rough knowledge of world geographics (that includes natural resources and some basics about climate)
10. Rough knowledge of modern history (say 1789+)
err, no, I'm not French, but European. And I personally think, we tend to get the same problems here. But as in many other (often positive) fields the US are just some years ahead of us.
I voted for King Steve
So, is it too early to emigrate to Mars for the next 4 years?
because I voted for CowboyNeal. ;)
America does not have the highest STANDARD of living. When you said "it isn't just a statistic, I've seen it first hand", your mistakingly referning to the QUALITY of living, something the UN does *not* measure, because its slightly relative. However, I somewhat agree with you (although I find Canada - besides the winters :) - much better, I'd have to say America comes in 2nd)
"The most powerful and successful country in the world is further to the right than the rest of the world."
and:
the U.S.S.R. was left of the rest of the world and now is no more
Bush's ideology and the Soviet Union's ideology are not polar opposites. In fact, the whole idea that all political ideologies can be categorized as either "left" or "right" is very suspect; the world is more complicated than that.
- The "right wing" is normally associated with conservatism, which includes fiscal conservatism,
while the "left wing" is normally associated with big government and out-of-control government spending. Bush has increased government spending and the size of government to historic highs. This is behaviour that we associate more with the soviet union than with the "right". Bush has already caused a lot of damage to the U.S. economy. If he were to continue along this path (and hopefully he isn't stupid enough to do so), then he will precipitate a Soviet Union style economic collapse.
-
The illegal invasion of Iraq was a soviet-style act of naked imperialism. I don't know how else to describe it, since we know that Bush's justifications for the invasion were all lies (WMDs, the Al-Quaeda link).
-
Bush is the most authoritarian president ever. Americans have lost a number of freedoms guaranteed by the constitution, including freedom from arbitrary detention and the right to a fair trial. Just like the soviet union.
Please understand that I am not arguing that Bush is "left wing", whatever that means. I'm arguing that the categories themselves are useless and meaningless.Doug Moen
I have written a truly remarkable program which this sig is too small to contain.
You rock, and are, in fact, likely a Canadian!!!
I was going to dock you for the dog score, but you actually got the harder of the two, so I gave you bonus credit. The other is the Newfoundland, you know, the big black bear looking one. The Lab was the trap to collect those who might not know that Labrador is part of Newfoundland.
Oh, and the rant, wasn't really against Bush and his faith, it was a dig at the original poster, who was, like, all, If I was God, I'd be like blah blah blah. I have no problems with faith, of any kind. But please, if you want me to listen to you, you have to keep the "God told me so" to a minimum.
Really, if you were God, and you could talk to anyone, would Bush really be your first choice? I admit, I find humor in listening to W's unique version and use of our common language, but if I'm God, I am not out looking for giggles (Hell, I can Darwin Award people at a whim! Look, guy smoking while pumping gas, watch this fireball!!!).
Good work on the quiz, you got all the good ones!
I know I am late to this 4000-post debate an noone will see this but ...
We had this problem in the UK. Although the Tories were unpopular in the 'intelectual' media and so people pretendedf they weren't going to vote for them, when it came to it, they did. For whatever reason, who knows.
Same here maybe.
I agree. And there are probably many other things to be added to our lists.
But it's scary how illogical and uninformed the average U.S. voter is. I was arguing with one poster who insisted that Canada's drug prices were subsidized rather than negotiated. He honestly believed that the Canadian government was using Canadian tax dollars to subsidize drug purchases and then letting U.S. citizens come across the border to buy the drugs. I provided links to the Canadian government's own web sites, and he still didn't get it.
China, Buddhism, Communism all await your concession speech, oh champion of majority rule.
Do you read much history? Does it give you the impression that the smartest or the best ideas are often shared by the majority of people?
Want to Know How to Cheat the GPL? Read On!
First, be sure to assert the stupidity of the American people for doing this. Doing so clearly defines your superiority to the unwashed masses across the pond, and lets any Americans who may be paying attention (not that they would, anyway) who's the real boss.
Secondly, be sure to bring up some of Bush's failures in the past four years. In the most expensive and extensive campaigns in American history, many important issues -- such as Iraq and the Economy -- were completely ignored. It's important to make those facts known, as they help with again clearly defining your superiority; first you told them who's the boss, and now you've proven it!
Last, be sure to mention something about your future travel plans, such as where you're planning on taking a vacation and more importantly where you're not taking vacation. Better yet, welcome them to Europe with open arms. No one's really attached to their home anyway and want more than nothing else to find a better place to live; by demonstrating your superiority so clearly in the first two steps above, they know where they can go!
IMPORTANT: By no means allow anyone who voted for Bush attempt to explain it! No matter how irrational or idiotic their reasons are, you run the risk of understanding their motives, which could cause irreparable harm to your ideology! AVOID AVOID AVOID! If they attempt to speak, interrupt them or silence them quickly before you become contaminated! Remember that you're the boss here! Show them who is in charge!
By following these instructions, you will... oh, I see most of you already have. My mistake!
There isn't any discussion of politics as they relate to people. Whenever I bring up politics here (Texas) it is immediately met with, "I hate politics", "politicians are corrupt", "let's talk football".
This disinterest in politics ensures that the voter is informed by rumor, innuendo, and electoral noise. People still believe we found WMDs in Iraq, Al-Qaida and Saddam kicked it at his palace, and poor people are poor because they are lazy. It is no wonder that Americans are left with Abortion and Gay Marriage, the two most unimportant topics, as major campaign issues.
I have spent years living in each country. I have enough experience with each culture to know that you are profoundly mistaken.
My standard line is that Canadians and Americans are more similar than Canadians would like to think, and less similar than Americans would like to think.
While we are indeed similar in many very important ways - linguistically, culturally, historically, societally - there are also very significant differences that are perhaps a little more subtle and require a little more thought to see.
Look at the attitudes of the two countries towards the domestic role of the government (universal health care vs. tax cuts), towards the international role of the government (UN peacekeeping vs. Iraq war), towards the role of the government in private life (gay marriage/decriminalized marijuana vs. anti-gay constitutional amendments and War on Drugs), ...
The differences may be a little more subtle than "they speak a different language", but in many ways the differences are just as important.
Don't take this to mean I'm saying the American way is wrong, merely different. This isn't a competition, and the mere fact that I need to add such a disclaimer shows another cultural difference. Life is not unrelenting competition.
I think the fact that 90% of African Americans voted for KERRY is even more amazing.
You're joking right? Diplomatic power is the way to really get things done? Yeah, diplomatic power worked very well when America wanted its independence. Diplomacy did a bang up job of preventing World War I and World War II. Diplomacy worked wonders at getting Saddam out of Kuwait in 1991. In fact, as we speak, diplomacy is working beautifully in Darfur, Sudan.
If America would have used diplomacy alone to obtain it's independence from Great Britian, we probably would have gotten it, but not until the 1950's . If the Allies would have used diplomacy during World War I, there wouldn't have been a World War II because the continent of Europe would have become the German Empire. If the Allies had used diplomacy during World War II, not only would Eurpoe be completely conquered but there wouldn't be any Jew's left in the continent. If we would have used diplomacy and diplomacy alone to get Saddam out of Kuwait, he never would have left. Now let's turn to Darfur, Sudan. We have been using diplomacy and diplomacy alone to try to bring about the end to the genocide there. Thousands continue to die. At this rate, if we are ever able to reach a successful diplomatic solution, there probably won't be anyone left in the region to "save".
Diplomacy is a joke unless you are prepared to back it up with action and actually have the economic and/or military might to see that action through. History has taught us this important lesson time and time again.
If 59 million American's think Bush is doing a good enough job to be re-elected... America deserves him, his puppet-masters, his lies, his policies, his floundering economy, his record-breaking national debt, his fear-mongering and the world's opinion of America as an ignorant, arrogant, violent and self-centered society. Let America continue to outsource brainpower in the search of a .5 point bump in the company stock, let America continue to act unilaterally in international affairs, let America dig it's own hole... it seems we can't dig it fast enough!
At this rate of spending (coupled with the imminent retirement of the baby boomers) America will become the new Argentina within the next decade (if not within the next 4 years).
"1984" was ment to be a warning, not a guidebook. You hear that Kim Jong-il!? BushCo?!
You mean social degradation.
PS - read some history books and you'll find that it was Republicans who were FOR womens suffrage.
Look at what US gets in taking over IRAQ:
1. Boat loads of oil (don't doubt it.) (From Iraq & Afghanistan too!)
2. Lots of Contracts (For Halliburton & $$$ for the x-CEO)
3. Staging Area for the rest of the Middle East
4. Divide and conquer - if they were united, it would be a big threat.
5. A Safer Israel - no scud missles!
6. Live Fire Training (Seasoned Troops fight better).
7. New Ordinance (used up the old stuff)
8. Improved Redesign (HumVees have too little armor)
9. Make new friends in Libia (too avoid the same fate).
10. Boost the USA Economy - more jobs and manufacturing.
Now some Liberals may say that killing a bunch of people just to boost your own world wide power is BAD,
but that is EXACTLY how the USA has grown from a hand-full of reject european rebels to dominate half of the planet.
Not bad for a group of people who just wanted to get out of paying taxes to a King.
US taxes are way too high now, and fighting wars planet wide WILL bankrupt the USA just like the USSR,
it's just a matter of how long can the USA foot the bill to pay for all of this Empire Building?
With BUSH as president for a second run,
I hope he can cut taxes and increase spending just like he said he would
(but the math don't look right to me.)
> > last 50 years.
>
> I don't think 51% of the country would agree with out.
That doesn't make them correct.
54% of the country believes Saddam Hussein had WMDs. Their belief doesn't make it true.
"Well, the economy is down the drain, Iraq is a mess, Afganistan is a mess, everyone hates America, and I don't think things will change the next four years. How about we just nominate the dullest guy we can find and let The Republicans handle this mess. Four more years of this crap and we'll be seen as saints."
I have a friend who's a politician and actually suggested this strategy for his party (local politician). Unfortunatly they didn't like the idea and was forced to take care of the mess the previous party created and was naturally voted out of office on the next election. Cleaning up a budget will do that.
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. -- Harlan Ellison
Bush Wins Re-Election, Focuses on Agenda
Nov 3, 5:28 PM (ET)
By RON FOURNIER
WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush claimed a re-election mandate Wednesday after a record 59 million Americans chose him over Democrat John Kerry and voted to expand Republican control of Congress as well. He pledged to pursue his agenda on taxes and Iraq while seeking "the broad support of all Americans."
Kerry conceded defeat in make-or-break Ohio rather than launch a legal fight reminiscent of the contentious Florida recount of four years ago. "I hope that we can begin the healing," the Massachusetts senator said.
Claiming a second term denied his father, George H.W. Bush, the president struck a conciliatory tone, too. "A new term is a new opportunity to reach out to the whole nation," he said, speaking directly to Kerry's supporters.
"To make this nation stronger and better, I will need your support and I will work to earn it," he said. "I will do all I can do to deserve your trust."
It was a warm-and-fuzzy close to one of the longest, most negative presidential races in a generation.
Bush didn't use the word mandate, but Vice President Dick Cheney did, and the president's intention was clear as he ticked off a familiar list of second-term goals: overhaul the tax code and Social Security at home while waging war in Iraq and elsewhere to stem terror.
Bush stands to reshape the federal judiciary, starting with an aging Supreme Court that voted 5-4 to award him Florida four years ago. In all branches of government, the GOP now holds a solid, if not permanent, ruling majority.
Bush's vote totals were the biggest ever and his slice of the vote, 51 percent, made him the first president to claim a majority since 1988 when his father won 53 percent against Democrat Michael Dukakis.
Like Dukakis, Kerry is a Massachusetts politician who was labeled a liberal by a Bush. This president also called Kerry a flip-flopping opportunist who would fight feebly against terror.
None of that rancor was evident Wednesday, when Kerry called Bush to concede the race. He told Bush the country needed to be united, and Bush agreed. But the numbers suggest the country is deeply split.
Bush's victory ensures Republican dominance of virtually every quarter of the U.S. political system for years to come - the White House, Congress and the federal judiciary. Democrats pored over election results and sadly determined that the GOP base was bigger, more rural, suburban and Hispanic than they had ever imagined.
They looked within their own party, and found plenty of Democrats to blame - Kerry, his running mate John Edwards, their layers of consultants and legions of former Bill Clinton aides. The jockeying began in earnest for the 2008 race, with Edwards signaling his ambitions by pressing Kerry to wage a legal fight for Ohio. Democrats love to fight the GOP, particularly those Democrats who vote in primaries and caucuses.
"You can be disappointed, but you cannot walk away," Edwards told supporters at Kerry's concession. "This fight has just begun."
Supporters of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, herself a potential candidate in 2008, accused Edwards of posturing.
Kerry himself showed no signs of exiting the political arena. "I'll never stop fighting for you," he told backers.
Still, it was a grim day for Democrats.
Party strategists had longed hoped to supplant their political losses in the Midwest and South with growth in the Hispanic-rich Western states, but those plans were put in doubt Tuesday night. Exit polls suggested that Bush had increased his minority share of the Hispanic vote since 2000.
One-third of Hispanics said they were born-against Christians and nearly 20 percent listed moral values as their top issue, suggesting they have more in common with Republicans than Democrats.
The election also vindicated Bush's unorthodox strategy of governing from the right and then targeting his voters with a vol
Blaming all your problems on the jews is such a cliche. The Germans wrote the book on it and the Arabs are now adding chapters.
The power of Christ compiles you!
If you read the gospels, you'll find not one reference in praise of intelligence.
Bush is the worst president in the last 50 years. This is widely accepted
That's a novel definition of "wide."
One could argue that a poll could be taken to determine just how widely such an opinion is held. Oh wait, we just did. 51% of the country disagrees with your statement.
While Bush certainly isn't the best person in the country to be president, apparently most people thought he was the best one of the people offered. I don't buy the argument that people are misguided, vote blindly, or didn't hear the opposing message. I think the Democratic party got out its message better than it ever has before. Consider Moveon.org, Fahrenheit 9/11, Bruce Springsteen. People heard the message and decided that they wanted someone other than Kerry.
I'm a strong conservative, one of those vilified people here on slashdot. But I hate it when I hear my conservative friends lump all people left of center as "evil" or "stupid" or "dishonest." Both sides have had their fair share of moments that they shouldn't be very proud of.
The blind hate needs to stop. On both sides.
In the interests of trying to heal the divisions of this country, I think all of us (me included) need to try and remember to view those on the "other side," those who voted other than we did, as intelligent people, as people who are worthy to listen to. I couldn't stand Kerry. I was very happy to see him concede the election. But I have to respect that he is doing, and has been doing, what he believes is right for his country. And that's very honorable and worthy of my respect, even if I disagree with his actions and positions.
I want to elaborate on this point for a minute. Where I work we have a number of people who spend a period of time in Washington, D.C., interacting with congresscritters and other Legislative and Executive staffers. After their stint there (1-2 years), they come back here. Every person I've ever talked to who has worked in Washington has said that they now have a different view of the people who work at that level of government. That every single person, agree with them or not, takes their job seriously and does what they believe is right for the good of the country. That's important. That says that the people we elect, and the people who help them, really are trying to be honest with us, trying to do their best to make this country strong.
We need to respect that sentiment.
This is a good argument for changing how a president is elected. For a good read, see...
For another good read, see this article.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Dow Ends Up 101 on President Bush Victory
Nov 3, 5:23 PM (ET)
By MEG RICHARDS
NEW YORK (AP) - Wall Street celebrated President Bush's re-election with a solid rally Wednesday, surging higher as investors welcomed continuity in Washington and shrugged off higher oil prices.
The Dow Jones industrial average closed up 101.32, or 1.01 percent, at 10,137.05. The broader gauges also finished higher. The Standard & Poor's 500 index added 12.64, or 1.12 percent, to 1,143.20. The Nasdaq composite index rose 19.54, or 0.98 percent, to 2,004.33, its highest close in four months, putting it back in positive range for the year. The Dow is still in negative territory for 2004, while the S&P 500 has logged a gain.
Sam Stovall, chief investment strategist at Standard & Poor's, characterized the advance as "a Republican-inspired relief rally." After weeks of worry that there would be no clear winner, the stock market would likely have gone up either way, but the fact that the victory went to the Republican incumbent - widely perceived as more business-friendly than Democrat John Kerry - might have added to Wall Street's cheer, he said.
"I think the market was relieved that we came to a fairly rapid conclusion," Stovall said. "We probably would have seen a rally if Kerry had been elected as well, simply because it would have resolved the issue. But with a Republican win, there might be some stronger legs underneath it."
Anxiety about the outcome of the election hobbled the market for weeks, keeping stocks in a tight trading range. While Wall Street was obviously pleased with the result, analysts warned the week could end with some profit-taking as investors start refocusing on the economy.
"Overall I think the market will be on a better footing with this behind us," said Jay Suskind, head trader at Ryan Beck & Co. "I think now the market gets back to business and says OK, what's the real picture with the economy? You'll see a rally, but then I think you'll also see some profit-taking. A lot of the issues we've all been concerned about are still there. But this was the biggest uncertainty out there, so its back to fundamentals."
In the first piece of post-election economic news, the Commerce Department reported that orders to U.S. factories declined for a second straight month, slipping by 0.4 percent, or $1.3 billion in September to $368.4 billion. Demand dropped sharply for all manufactured goods except defense materials. It was the first back-to-back monthly decline since November-December, and fell far short of the 0.5 percent increase projected by economists.
Lofty energy prices have also weighed heavily on stocks in recent weeks, although crude has stepped back from its record highs over the past several sessions. It was back on the rise following the government's weekly fuel report, however. Initially, a bigger-than-expected 6.3 million barrel run-up in crude supplies seemed to overshadow a 900,000 barrel drawdown in heating oil. But with traders expecting a slight build, the seventh week of heating oil declines seemed to take a toll, especially in the face of rising concern that high energy costs this winter could cut into consumer spending. Light, sweet crude for December delivery settled up $1.26 at $50.88.
With the election resolved, several sectors of the market that had come under pressure at the prospect of a Kerry win posted gains. Among these, pharmaceutical stocks, which might have suffered if Kerry had gone through with a plan to import cheaper drugs from abroad; Merck & Co. (MRK) was up $1.07, or 4 percent, at $27.87, and Pfizer Inc. (PFE) added 75 cents, or 2.6 percent, to $29.45.
Defense stocks soared as well as investors anticipated continued spending on military projects overseas. Boeing Co. (BA) climbed $1.27, or 2.6 percent, to $51.15; General Dynamics Corp. (GD) added $3.79, or 3.8 percent, to $104.27; and Northrop Grumman Corp. (NOC) surged $2.10, or 4.1 percent, to $53.75.
In the mi
Bush and his NeoCon Crownies.
These people have no code! No moral code, no code of honor, nothing zip nada. They don't care about the small citizin for a split second. How can the people of the USA elect such a total disastrous bunch of swindlers as their Elect Saviors ?
I keep thinking about these things like judgment day, when God comes to to earth and has to decide who will live and who will die. The Bush people have IMHO violated any moral code or any code whatsoever in the past 4 years. They have been warned. I fear the worst for them.
Robert
The only reason Bush won was because of FEAR. He pulled out all the stop and told the American people he was the one who was going to protect them from the terrorists.
Bush Claims Mandate for War, Tax Agenda
Nov 3, 5:21 PM (ET)
By RON FOURNIER
WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush claimed a re-election mandate Wednesday after a record 59 million Americans chose him over Democrat John Kerry and voted to expand Republican control of Congress as well. He pledged to pursue his agenda on taxes and Iraq while seeking "the broad support of all Americans."
Kerry conceded defeat in make-or-break Ohio rather than launch a legal fight reminiscent of the contentious Florida recount of four years ago. "I hope that we can begin the healing," the Massachusetts senator said.
Claiming a second term denied his father, George H.W. Bush, the president struck a conciliatory tone, too. "A new term is a new opportunity to reach out to the whole nation," he said, speaking directly to Kerry's supporters.
"To make this nation stronger and better, I will need your support and I will work to earn it," he said. "I will do all I can do to deserve your trust."
It was a warm-and-fuzzy close to one of the longest, most negative presidential races in a generation.
Bush didn't use the word mandate, but Vice President Dick Cheney did, and the president's intention was clear as he ticked off a familiar list of second-term goals: overhaul the tax code and Social Security at home while waging war in Iraq and elsewhere to stem terror.
Bush stands to reshape the federal judiciary, starting with an aging Supreme Court that voted 5-4 to award him Florida four years ago. In all branches of government, the GOP now holds a solid, if not permanent, ruling majority.
Bush's vote totals were the biggest ever and his slice of the vote, 51 percent, made him the first president to claim a majority since 1988 when his father won 53 percent against Democrat Michael Dukakis.
Like Dukakis, Kerry is a Massachusetts politician who was labeled a liberal by a Bush. This president also called Kerry a flip-flopping opportunist who would fight feebly against terror.
None of that rancor was evident Wednesday, when Kerry called Bush to concede the race. He told Bush the country needed to be united, and Bush agreed. But the numbers suggest the country is deeply split.
Bush's victory ensures Republican dominance of virtually every quarter of the U.S. political system for years to come - the White House, Congress and the federal judiciary. Democrats pored over election results and sadly determined that the GOP base was bigger, more rural, suburban and Hispanic than they had ever imagined.
They looked within their own party, and found plenty of Democrats to blame - Kerry, his running mate John Edwards, their layers of consultants and legions of former Bill Clinton aides. The jockeying began in earnest for the 2008 race, with Edwards signaling his ambitions by pressing Kerry to wage a legal fight for Ohio. Democrats love to fight the GOP, particularly those Democrats who vote in primaries and caucuses.
"You can be disappointed, but you cannot walk away," Edwards told supporters at Kerry's concession. "This fight has just begun."
Supporters of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, herself a potential candidate in 2008, accused Edwards of posturing.
Kerry himself showed no signs of exiting the political arena. "I'll never stop fighting for you," he told backers.
Still, it was a grim day for Democrats.
Party strategists had longed hoped to supplant their political losses in the Midwest and South with growth in the Hispanic-rich Western states, but those plans were put in doubt Tuesday night. Exit polls suggested that Bush had increased his minority share of the Hispanic vote since 2000.
One-third of Hispanics said they were born-against Christians and nearly 20 percent listed moral values as their top issue, suggesting they have more in common with Republicans than Democrats.
The election also vindicated Bush's unorthodox strategy of governing from the right and then targeting his voters with a volu
Comment removed based on user account deletion
USA has become nothing more than a swarm of locust traveling from country to country, torturing, killing, and plundering everything in sight. You're to stupid to acknowledge that the rest of the world is beginning to hate USA. Electing Bush was a big mistake.
Looking at a map of which states that voted for Bush gives a good picture of what types of people you are. Stupid hillbilly americans that probably never traveled abroad.
I wont have sympathy when somebody bombs the shit out of you like your country has done to dozens of countries. Do us all a favor and stay the fuck away. Your country is oh so well so why not?
GOP Extends Decade of House Control
Nov 3, 2:19 PM (ET)
By JESSE J. HOLLAND
WASHINGTON (AP) - House Republicans looked ahead Wednesday to two more years in power with an expanded majority and a president and Senate of their own political persuasion - and held out hope of further gains in Louisiana.
"The American people have spoken and their message is that they want Republican leadership in the House of Representatives to continue," said Rep. Tom Reynolds, R-N.Y., head of the House GOP campaign organization.
With three races unsettled in the 435-member House, Republicans held 231 seats to 200 for the Democrats and one Democratic-aligned independent. They hold 227 seats in the current Congress, with two seats vacant.
A minimum of 218 seats are needed for House control.
In races decided the morning after the election, Republicans held onto seats in Washington and Pennsylvania. They also picked up one in Indiana, where challenger Mike Sodrel beat Democratic Rep. Baron Hill.
Two races were headed for a Dec. 4 runoff in Louisiana.
The power of incumbency and an advantageous GOP redistricting in Texas powered Republicans to a renewed hold on power.
Virtually all sitting representatives in the 435-member House won re-election, leaving Speaker Dennis Hastert, Majority Leader Tom DeLay and their GOP majority firmly in charge.
DeLay, whose push for redistricting in Texas helped the GOP knock off four veteran Texas Democrats, also saw the elections as an affirmation of Republican leadership.
"The American people have spoken tonight, and all indications are that they have hired a Republican House of Representatives for the sixth straight election," DeLay said late Tuesday.
Republicans also gained seats in the Senate, keeping Congress under party control. But Democrats will retain enough votes there to make it hard for Republicans to push through their programs.
In the House, Democrats knocked off one Republican incumbent - Rep. Philip M. Crane of Illinois, the party's longest-serving member - but came nowhere close to taking the 12 seats they needed to win back control.
Even celebrity didn't help. Kentucky Democrat Nick Clooney, father of actor George Clooney and brother of the late singer-actress Rosemary Clooney, lost his bid for an open seat to Geoff Davis.
Clooney said his defeat wasn't a reflection on his party. "We just picked the wrong candidate this time," he said.
Nearly all incumbents sailed to re-election, including former presidential hopeful Rep. Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio. Also returned for a second term was Rep. Katherine Harris, R-Fla., who was secretary of state during the pivotal presidential recount in the Sunshine State four years ago.
Besides Hastert and DeLay, Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi of California and No. 2 Democrat Steny Hoyer of Maryland all won re-election.
But Crane, who suffered a career-ending defeat, said it was time to go. "I am ready for retirement because the good Lord knows what he is doing," the 73-year-old said as he conceded defeat to Melissa Bean.
The Democratic businesswoman lost to Crane in 2002, but she won Tuesday with 52 percent of the vote in a district that stretches from Chicago's northwest and northern suburbs to the Wisconsin state line and was supposed to be one of the most Republican in Illinois.
Democrat John Salazar also picked up a western Colorado seat vacated by a retiring Republican, and was headed to Washington with younger brother Ken, who was elected to the Senate.
But Republicans made sure history would be on their side by redrawing congressional districts in Texas, causing four of five Democratic incumbents to lose their seats, including two of the party's longest-serving members.
Reps. Charles Stenholm and Martin Frost, a former party leader and dean of the Texas delegation, were defeated, as were Reps. Max Sandlin and Nick Lampson. The four had a total of 68 years in the House.
How The Election Was Stolen
From Roz Hill
roz_hill_2u@hotmail.com
11-3-4
I watched the election results all night and into this morning. There are some very important issues to share.
One is the surprise expressed by the pundits wherein they acknowledge that the massive voter drives were propelled by discontent. So how did the most hated occupant of the White House manage to exceed his 45% poll average to now claim he has a huge "popular" win.
We are told that 22% voted on "morality" and that Bush took 80% of that 22%, and that is how he won. However, that leaves 78% who were focused on Kerry issues. Why aren,t we told the percentages of the 78%???
The second surprise for the media was that the results didn,t match the exit polls AT ALL. The media has gracefully claimed they "just got it wrong." You remember we didn,t have exit pollsters in 2002. It saved any disagreement with THAT Republican "sweep." In fact, the pollsters have always been 100% accurate, with just 1 to 2% polling data, in legitimate elections. Bush took the Texas governorship from Ann Richards when she had a 70% approval rating. Is it magic?
My "I TOLD YOU SO" is that I have SCREAMED since 2000 that if we don,t get rid of touch-screen "voting" computers, NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING else will matter.
So, here are the numbers (so far): 112,596,922 voters counted in the presidential race. Bush has been consistently polling at 45%, which SHOULD have given him 50,668,614 votes, instead of 58,073,612. This translates into 7,404,998 votes being siphoned off from Kerry votes. Now, how does that magic work???
Taxpayers get hit with a bill for $3600 (or more) for EACH of the touch-screen "voting" computers, which are nothing more than dedicated COUNTERS except that they are marketed by Republicans (who vowed to ensure Bush,s victory); and the American people have not been allowed to examine or certify the software in these units.
Here is how easy it is to "make magic"
-- we need COUNTERS - (B) = Bush; (K) = Kerry; (V) = Vote; (T) = Tally
1. If V = B, add 1 to B
2. If T = 8, add 1 to B; Clear T; Skip 3
3. If V = K, add 1 to K; Add 1 to T
This extremely simple bit of programming would shift 12% of the vote from Kerry to Bush, it would defy exit polls, and it would make it look like Bush had a huge popular win. It is time that the software in these SECRET Republican-owned computers be examined with a deliberate check for instructions that could modify the vote tally.
Al-Qaeda has previously regarded the American people as victims of a crooked election in 2000. Now they regard Americans as responsible for letting this man -- who is regarded as the worst terrorist on the planet continue his tyrannous regime. I doubt that the rest of the world will accept four more years of his lies and looting.
Roz Hill
GOP Topples Daschle and Sweeps South
... a lot wiser."
Nov 3, 3:21 PM (ET)
By LEIGH STROPE
WASHINGTON (AP) - Republicans toppled Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle, winning their biggest Senate prize and expanding their majority in a Southern sweep. They added wins in Alaska and Florida on Wednesday.
Republicans were assured 55 Senate seats, strengthening their 51-48 margin, with one Democratic-leaning independent.
Daschle, who was elected to the Senate in 1986 and had served eight years in the House, told supporters he was "grateful for the extraordinary opportunity."
Reminiscing on his political career, he recalled being mistaken for a paperboy years ago. "Well, that doesn't happen anymore," he said. "I'm a lot more recognized. I'm a lot grayer. I'm a grandfather
Democrats hoped for a GOP defection to ease the pain. Rhode Island Sen. Lincoln Chafee said he would consider switching parties if President Bush were re-elected.
"I'm not ruling it out," Chafee told The Providence Journal. Known for moderate views that often run counter to the Bush administration, Chafee said he cast a write-in vote for Bush's father, George H.W. Bush, in Tuesday's election, calling it a "symbolic protest."
In Alaska, Sen. Lisa Murkowski, who was considered the most endangered Republican, defeated former Democratic Gov. Tony Knowles, earning a Senate term in her own right. She overcame political turmoil that arose when her father, the governor, appointed her to fill his Senate term.
In Florida, Mel Martinez defeated Democrat Betty Castor in a tight contest to replace retiring Sen. Bob Graham, a Democrat. Martinez will be the nation's first Cuban-American senator, winning 49 percent to Castor's 48 percent.
Republicans were surprised by their Senate showing, winning competitive races in Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Louisiana - where the GOP won its first seat since Reconstruction.
"Nobody expected that," Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., said Wednesday on NBC's "Today." Frist, whose name has been mentioned as a possible presidential candidate in 2008, planned a victory tour in which he would join the newly elected Republican senators from the South.
Daschle, who was labeled an obstructionist by Republicans, fell short by about 4,500 votes, garnering 49 percent to 51 percent for former GOP Rep. John Thune.
"These elections demonstrate that obstruction is unacceptable to the American people," Frist said, adding that Republicans now can more easily pursue an aggressive agenda that includes partial privatization of Social Security, an overhaul of the tax code and tort reform.
The last time a Senate leader was unseated was in 1952, when Barry Goldwater of Arizona turned Senate Majority Leader Ernest McFarland out of office.
An Associated Press exit poll showed that South Dakota voters concerned with moral values and terrorism helped Thune.
Democrats had a nearly insurmountable hurdle to take control of the Senate, since most of the competitive races were in states where Bush was strong.
In Illinois, state Sen. Barack Obama easily won, making him the only black member of the new Senate that convenes in January. He cautioned against a GOP mandate.
"You still need 60 votes in the Senate to make things happen," Obama said Wednesday on NBC's "Today.""The Republicans don't have 60 votes. My hope would be that they recognize that, and the Democrats are willing to serve as a loyal opposition."
The strengthened Republican Senate probably will mean more votes to confirm nominees to the Supreme Court in a second Bush term. One Republican winner, Sen. Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania, is in line to become chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, which holds confirmation hearings on court nominees.
In other notable races:
_Former GOP Rep. Tom Coburn trounced Rep. Brad Carson in Oklahoma.
_Incumbent Republican Jim Bunning in Kentuck
Excellent, that was very well put my good sir, I only wish /. could give higher ratings than a 5. Keep modding this up!
Best. Webhost. Ever. Dreamhost.
God seizes America by the throat, and squeezes!
After reading that, I feel expressed... I think this victory can be chaulked up to the religious-right. Its sad because many of the republicans have good intentions, but have no knowledge of a) impartial news networks or b) time or money to follow the news. reality is, most of us are struggling to make ends meet and there's scant time to keep track of Washington's surreal path of self-destruction.
T-ism!? Unless there's now a religion devoted to Mr. T (who, incidentally, is now appearing regularly on a local religious station here in the south-west--I see him often as I flip past it), I believe you mean "theism." You know, the opposite of atheism.
But you don't have a different kind of occupation today, and that is where the numbers of troops are needed
The US military can flatten almost any country without breaking a sweat; nobody's arguing that. The army's high-tech weapons don't do all that much to pacify an occupied country, though - they don't replace the GI marching down the street, making his presence known, helping where needed, keeping an eye and mind out for trouble.
Nobody's saying the US military's not big enough to fight a war. They're saying the US military's not big enough to win a peace.
Kerry Says It's Time to 'Begin Healing'
.. but the outcome should be decided by voters, not a protracted legal fight," Kerry said. "I would not give up this fight if there was a chance that we would prevail."
... We will continue to fight for every vote. We know every vote matters in our America and we will honor each and every one of you. We didn't start fighting for you when this campaign began and we won't stop fighting for you when this campaign ends."
Nov 3, 5:22 PM (ET)
By MARY DALRYMPLE
BOSTON (AP) - Sen. John Kerry brought his long White House campaign to an end Wednesday, conceding the presidential election to George W. Bush and saying the time had come to "begin the healing."
"I'm sorry that we got here a little bit late and a little bit short," said a hoarse and stoic Kerry, noting that he had called Bush earlier at the White House and said they had a "good conversation."
"In America, it is vital that every vote count
But Kerry also said that "there won't be enough outstanding votes for us to win Ohio, and therefore we cannot win this election."
"In this journey, you have given me the honor and the gift of learning from you," the senator said.
"I'm going to fight on for the people and the principles that I've stood for," said Kerry, who returns to the Senate to complete his term. Friends and admirers who joined him, running mate John Edwards and their families applauded lovingly during his 15-minute speech at this city's historic Faneuil Hall.
Preceding Kerry, Edwards said, "well, it was a long night and a long morning.
With their families aligned in the front row, Kerry and Edwards appeared before a mammoth painting by George P. A. Healy. Measuring almost 27 feet in width, it depicts a famous 19th century exchange between Daniel Webster and South Carolina Senator Robert Hayne about the federal Constitution's jurisdiction over the states.
Inscribed on the frame are Webster's famous words: "Liberty and Union, Now and Forever."
They had gathered earlier at Kerry's Beacon Hill home. His two-year campaign for the White House ended abruptly with the loss of the make-or-break state of Ohio in a close election.
Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, who campaigned heavily for Kerry over the past year, entered Kerry's house Wednesday morning with his wife, Victoria. Also spotted going inside were David Thorne, Kerry's longtime friend and former brother-in-law, stepson Andre Heinz, and brother Cameron Kerry.
Kerry called Bush shortly before 11 a.m. to concede defeat after his campaign determined Ohio was out of reach.
"Congratulations, Mr. President," Kerry said.
Hours earlier, Kerry huddled inside his home with advisers while running mate John Edwards addressed the nation from Copley Square. Both Democrats had campaigned until the last minute, mindful of the close finish four years ago.
"We've waited four years for this victory, we can wait one more night," Edwards, standing outside on a cold, drizzly night, told supporters still awake in the wee hours of the morning.
Advisers later said the campaign just wanted one last look at the uncounted ballots in Ohio, where Bush held a 136,000-vote advantage. The state's 20 electoral votes sealed victory for Bush.
In 2000, Bush sweated out a 36-day recount before a Supreme Court ruling awarded him Florida and the White House.
Kerry spent the campaign's final weeks going after Bush with a steady stream of criticism over his decision to wage war in Iraq and his push for costly tax cuts the Democrat said were irresponsible.
The four-term Massachusetts senator worked to tap into voters' pessimistic frame of mind, evident in exit polls, which showed them worried about new terrorist attacks, job losses and the war in Iraq.
The Democrat seized on three televised debates as his best opportunity to make these arguments to his largest audience, and his support ticked up after he delivered three solid performances.
Copyright 2004 Associated Press. All right reserved.
It was clear by 3am EST last night that Kerry lost Ohio and the election. However, he didn't concede then, making all the Republican revelers wait. I think you're reading too much into White House statements.
Good lord, what a complete and utter mess. On one side we have a republican party that is becoming more socially controlling (or conservative) while it abandons the core fiscal conservativism that has been the cornerstone of its ideology for decades. On the other hand we have the Democrats, who were handed a golden opportunity on a silver platter by Bush, but they still managed to make a mess out of it.
I didn't vote for Bush, or Kerry. I didn't see how either one of them had proven he could do the job well. With Bush we know his track record-he's not the worst president ever (there are plenty of candidates for that, like Hoover, Polk, Buchannen), or the worst of the last 50 years (Nixon and LBJ are front runners for that in my opinion), but he's pretty bad at the job.
Look at what happened: a lot of people I know, aside from the died in the whole democrats, voted for Kerry not because they thought he would do a good job, but because he wasn't Bush. On the other hand, a lot of the folks I know who aren't died in the wool Republicans voted for Bush because they figure at least that way they know what they're getting, because they didn't like Kerry, or didn't think he could do any better at the job. I have met very very few people who really liked Kerry who weren't ardent Democrats.
Another problem I've always seen, and it has always made me very wary of the "liberal" point of view is the attitude-the belief that only idiots and the brain dead would vote the other way, that if everyone were smart they would vote the same way you do. That's all well and good, and the conservatives have much the same attitude, but they don't go around proclaiming that everyone who votes Democrat is a back woods hick with a first grade education and brain damage. Its bad marketing. All that calling the people who didn't agree with you idiots does is turn away folks who might, otherwise, agree with you-and in many cases it offends people who have come to their opinions based upon a good deal of insight and critical thinking.
Personally, I'm more socially liberal (and that also includes gun ownership-I believe that law abiding citizens should be able to own and bear arms for protection of themselves and their family in case of crime and tyrany, as well as the aquisition of food), but I'm fiscally conservative. I'd love to see the Democratic party reform itself as a party focused on fiscal conservatism, a government that keeps its nose out of your personal business, and the belief that people should be able to live their lives without being told how to live day to day by the government, or anyone else for that matter.
Hmm, kind of sounds like what I thought the republican party was growing up, without the religious overtones.
500 words. One paragraph.
;-)
You could certainly be better educated than me, but at least I know how to whip up a couple of line-breaks every now and then
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -David Hume
I would've _easily_ voted for Kucinich, and I think he would've done quite good among the larger populace as well (I'm kind of "out there" on the political spectrum), but I could be wrong about that. Check out his platform: http://www.kucinich.us/issues/ I couldn't, however, justify voting for Kerry or Bush; as much as I would've like to throw my support behind the next-most-popular candidate, I just didn't feel like I could trust him (or the incumbent). Well, I could probably trust Bush to do some things, but nothing I would want.
"I'm not looking forward to the USA Bush will create as it's clarly [sic] not in the interest of most americans nor the rest of the world."
Keep fooling yourself out there like this guy, you democrats out there - it'll do the republicans a lot of good.
Let's keep in mind that through the entire election season, Bush was being attacked nonstop by the press, hollywood, academia, and liberal bloggers. He was accused of stupidity, tyranny, oafishness, dishonesty, war crimes, corporate cronyism, derilection of duty, racism, homophobia, bigotry, and of being a nazi. The candidate you guys chose to run against him wasn't even the one you really wanted, it was the one you thought could win. you picked him in spite of your disagreement with him because you figured the guy you really wanted couldn't win. Yet Bush won with more votes than any other president in history; he's the first president since reagan to be elected with a majority of the popular vote, and the first since FDR to be reelected while his party increased its control of the senate.
Your side lost. Big time. Even though you chose a candidate whom you didn't really want because you thought he would win, and even though you had constant attacks on bush from all sides, you still lost.
Our government is a democractic one, and the people make decisions about who they want to lead. It would be logical to conclude that, if your side loses an election running a compromise of a candidate against a man who is continually attacked, and loses big, it's because the american peole reject your message. After all, if you have a minority opinion and you live in a democracy, you're never going to get what you want. The logical result would either be to give up any hope of ever getting what you want, or perhaps recrafting your message so that it's more in tune with what the american people want. If you knew what was good for you, you'd stop and think in a serious, introspective manner about what it is the american people want and how you can craft a new message that the american people will accept and will accomplish what you want.
You won't do that, however. You'll revel in self pity for a while before concluding that you've got to just shout your message louder and more fiercely. The thing is, your side is utterly incapable of understanding that the american people don't like your line of thinking.You'll revel in self pity for a while before concluding that you've got to just shout your message louder and more fiercely. You'll conclude that you didn't do a good enough job of getting your message out and explaining it to people; that your mistake was not attacking bush fiercely enough. You'll say they just don't get how bad the bush administration is for them; if only they knew better you guys would be in power. You'll spend the next four years fiercely attacking the president for anything you can concoct that'll make him look bad, and you'll constantly decry the state of the nation and the way things are going. And you'll shake your heads in digust and confusion when you lose the senate and house races in 2006.
My blog
...really. I don't swear much or often, but that was quite nice. I'll add to it, it's not just the 51%, it's the other 48% who wasted their vote as well-clearly now, they wasted it, and voted to try and compromise "this time" so they can "work to make it better" the next 4 years. I've seen it election after election after election, over and over and over again. Keep voting for the two headed demon, that's who gets in.
There's only a small few percent of us out here, whether we call ourselves greens, libertarians, progressives, constitutionalists, reformers, independents, who make an effort to REALLY have some change, to vote for ANYTHING but an R&D dictatorship, the same dictatorship and cooperative criminal junta which has RULED over the US for generations now. We are of both the left and the right, but one thing we agree on,and a place we can get together on and start to work more effectively from, is the point that that gangster R&D nonsense is EVIL AND STUPID AND A BIG FAT WASTE OF TIME.
Oh, BTW, don't go "to the wall" easily. Even if it gets down to just anyone "you" alone, fight the creeping fascism, I know I plan on it.
Bloggers Said to Blame for Bad Poll Info
... During the primary season, it worked very well for us, we were happy with it. But that was not good last night."
Nov 3, 5:31 PM (ET)
By DAVID BAUDER
NEW YORK (AP) - News organizations promised Wednesday to look into why their Election Day exit polls showed an initial surge for John Kerry, but also blamed bloggers for spreading news that gave a misleading view of the presidential race.
The exit poll data was delivered at several points Tuesday to ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, Fox News Channel and The Associated Press by the National Election Pool, a company formed in the wake of the networks' blown calls on election night 2000.
The first wave showed Kerry with a lead of three percentage points in Florida and four points in Ohio - both battleground states won by President Bush when the votes were actually counted, giving the president his margin of victory.
"Once one part of it is in question and is wrong, it kind of puts the whole thing in question," said Marty Ryan, Fox News Channel's executive producer for political coverage. "It was disappointing.
Other network representatives said their confidence in NEP remained unshaken.
The Florida and Ohio exit poll results, along with those in other states were Kerry was strong, was quickly disseminated on Web sites such as Slate, the Drudge Report, Wonkette.com, Atrios.blogspot.com and Command Post.
Some of these sites cautioned readers not to make too much of the information. The Command Post delivered the news under the headline "Grain of Salt." Drudge removed the numbers almost as quickly as they were posted. And Slate warned: "these early exit poll numbers do not divine the name of the winner."
"I didn't have any real compunction about putting it up there," said Alan Nelson, co-manager of The Command Post. "I didn't struggle with the decision, because I knew it was going to become a global news item within about 30 seconds.
"Our approach is: We post, you decide," Nelson said.
But the people who read these numbers - among them, thousands of ordinary Americans with an intense interest in the election - put too much faith into them and leaped to conclusions, said Bill Schneider, CNN's polling expert.
"I think people believed them, and it's particularly the case with Internet bloggers," said Kathy Frankovic, CBS News' polling director. "That's unfortunate because it sets up expectations that may or may not be met. I think it's a good exercise because it reminded people that early exit polls can be unreliable."
Bloggers picked out different numbers to use for their purposes, said Joseph Lenski, who ran the poll with partner Warren Mitofsky for the NEP. As the day wore on, later waves of exit polling showed the race tightening.
"Doing an early poll is like reporting the results of the game at halftime," Lenski said. "You only have about a third of the information. No other survey research is held to that level of accuracy."
The NEP had enough concerns that its early exit polls were skewing too heavily toward Kerry that it held a conference call with news organizations mid-afternoon urging caution in how that information was used. Early polls in New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, Minnesota and Connecticut were then showing a heavier Kerry vote than anticipated.
Pollsters anticipate a postmortem to find out why that happened. Some possibilities: Democrats were more eager to speak to pollsters than Republicans, or Kerry supporters tended to go to the polls earlier in the day than Bush voters.
"The exit poll is one of several tools that AP uses to call races," said Kathleen Carroll, the news agency's senior vice president and executive editor. "After every election, we look back at how all our tools worked. We'll be doing that in the next few days with our election experts and our colleagues at the National Election Pool, and expect to be able to address any concerns in that process."
LEFTwing propaganda machine for:
universal healthcare like Canada
restrictive trade policy
It's sarcasm, not insightful. Are you all so blinded by your own socialist idealogy that you're going yeah that's what we need.
It's almost as bad as the knee-jerk response, the main stream media is the LEFTwingpropaganda machine. (It is, Dan Rather is still trying to figure out what John Kerry has to do to win the election.)
Cryofan forgot that the LEFTwingpropaganda machine needs to make these points too:
national control of the media like the UK, France, and Canada
Hey let's give communism another chance. It's only killed over 100 million people worldwide.
Why so often do I notice that there are many pages seemingly filled with the same comments.
This topic for instance seems to have the first page repeated 10 times.
which I think account for about 1000 of the 3800 post i.e. 100 not 1000.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=223849
Could you be more specific? "Doesn't have his head up his ass" doesn't really make much of an point. As an example, here are some specific reasons I have for Bush:
1) Due to Bush policies, Afghanistan now has had their first free election
2) Due to Bush policies, and the military, Iraq will soon hold their first free elections
3) Due to Bush policies, an evil dictator who gassed thousands of his fellow citizens (Saddam for you slow people), is now in jail and out of power
Got anything specific like that for Kerry? Or is it just more "Bush is dumb. Kerry is smart." bullshit?
China, Buddhism, Communism all await your concession speech, oh champion of majority rule.
Tell me that China has any sort of consensual, democratic government, and we can discuss them.
Buddism? I don't see what that has to do with anything here.
Communism? That's a failed adventure in social structure, now isn't it? If any communist country could even hold a candle to ours, we might have a discussion. China isn't so much communist as facist, North Korea is utterly worthless outside a weapons program that's still 30 years behind us, and Cuba is an insignificant Banana republic.
The Soviet Union Collapsed.
So, challenger of majority rule, bring me some opposing group that's worth even discussing.
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
I love reading Slashdot when it comes to tech stuff, but politics here are just unbearable. You would think that the next Hitler was elected president... Of course half the people on the board will state that Bush IS Hitler, which just proves my point. Since this topic is as old as abortion, and just as impossible to discuss, can we just please drop it, and go back to talking about Linux, or next iPod or something?
> social outcast, money hungry, anti-environment, eco-terrorist, homophobe, and the list goes on.
"Anti-environment eco-terrorist"?
That's a list I'd love to see. Please provide. (Or, more likely, continue making it up.)
subject says it all,
:)
its funny to see the correlation between the "gun-toten" states and the outcome!!!
i am sorry to see bush in again and i was hopeing to see kerry win..
lesser of two evils
i guess 48% of the voting population are smart - just a shame its a minority!
Erratic Campaign by Kerry Leads to Loss
Nov 3, 5:48 PM (ET)
By MARY DALRYMPLE
BOSTON (AP) - Notwithstanding his athleticism and fighting spirit, Sen. John Kerry waged an occasionally awkward, run-walk-run campaign, a marathon bedeviled by his slow start and a lumbering response to attacks by the Swift Boat veterans.
"I'm sorry that we got here a little bit late and little bit short," Kerry told a crowd of family, friends and staff Wednesday at Faneuil Hall as he formally ended the race.
In what seems like ages ago, the Massachusetts senator began the campaign with a certain appeal for Democrats determined to oust President Bush - a decorated Vietnam War record to counter the commander in chief, a wealthy spouse even if she could only contribute a limited amount and an experienced campaign team.
But Kerry's more senatorial style was overshadowed by Vermont Gov. Howard Dean's shooting star and his four terms in the Senate suffered by comparison to the state's legislative lion, Sen. Edward M. Kennedy.
Dean tapped into the strong anti-war sentiment among the Democratic rank-and-file and his candidacy soared. Kerry's campaign sputtered in the familiar territory of New Hampshire, forcing the candidate to shake up his staff.
A Kerry revival in Iowa combined with a Dean fizzle pushed the Massachusetts senator forward with a surprising string of Democratic primary wins. Harold Schaitberger, president of the first major labor union to endorse Kerry, recalled that he predicted victory to Iowa Gov. Tom Vilsack in December, weeks before the state's caucuses.
"I think he probably thought I was a little bit of a high school cheerleader," said Schaitberger, head of the International Association of Fire Fighters.
Through the summer, Democrats worried that voters didn't know their candidate and that Kerry's message wasn't clear, wasn't penetrating.
At the Democratic National Convention in July, Kerry introduced himself to voters as a decorated Vietnam veteran with a thoughtful approach to questions of war and peace. "I'm John Kerry and I'm reporting for duty," he said with a crisp salute as he took the stage.
But by mid-August, Kerry's spit-and-polish image has been tarnished by a group of Republican-funded Vietnam War veterans who had patrolled the same Mekong Delta in swift boats similar to the ones piloted by Navy Lt. John Kerry.
The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth challenged Kerry's accounts of his medal-winning service and anti-war protests. Although the charges later turned out to be largely unsubstantiated, Kerry let others defend him while the campaign saved its ad money for later.
"He clearly lost precious time and momentum in August by not responding to the Swift Boat ads. They clearly added real doubts about his character," said Elaine Kamarck, a former senior policy adviser to Al Gore and public policy lecturer at Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government. "I think they left a lasting impression."
The questions about Kerry's ability to be commander in chief worsened as the Bush campaign hammered away at a pair of votes - one in October 2002 authorizing military action against Iraq, and another in October 2003 rejecting $87 billion in funding for troops and reconstruction efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The GOP dogged him with charges of flip-flopping, counting the seemingly myriad of positions Kerry held on the war and using his legislative record against him. Images of the athletic Kerry wind-surfing near his Nantucket home during the Republican convention was fodder for the some ads that suggested the Democrat's positions changed with the wind.
In September, Kerry started to battle back with a pair of speeches signaling he wouldn't shirk from battling the president over terrorism and Iraq. He said the billions financing the war could be put to better use at home, excoriated the president from marginalizing allies and blamed the president for failing to plan for peace as well a
Sucks to be looking for a job....
Canada is not perfect, but Canadians are open minded humanitarians. While the government makes mistakes, liberal views are what makes Canada a profoundly great nation. We believe all people are equal regardless of religion or sexual orientation. So, go ahead and attack the Canadian government, but realize what is so dangerous about Bush and Bush supporters is their single sided view of what is morally right and wrong. The world does not break down into neat little black and white biblical references, unfortunitely it is complicated and people sometimes practice difference religions, and people are sometimes gay--this does not mean they are lesser--they are still people, and Canada the great nation it is, both recognizes and embracing its populations differences
perhaps you read more whining into it than there was.
i wasn't inferring that kerry should be co-president, only that Bush shouldn't look upon this as validation--half of us still disagree.
so what if they hold the election _every recess_ the results of that scenario are still unfair if the kickball players never once acknowledge the barely-a-minority opinion.
einstein yourself. dig.
Actually people "voting with thier feet" is how much of the USA was formed, people moving because of political economic and social reasons. (plus a few prison colonies, in fact more prisoners sent here from England than to Australia)
So if people want to "vote with their feet" by moving somewhere that fits their ideology, I say go for it, it is a basic human right in my book.
==>Lazn
The New York Times Novermber 3, 2004
Page P7, "The Minority Vote: Black Voters, Newly Energized, Flock to Polls and Back Kerry"
"About 9 in 10 (black voters) voted for Senator Jon Kerry, an overwhelming number that roughly mirrored the black turnout for Al Gore in 2000."
The bible thumpers of southern and middle America reelected George Bush because they care more about oppressing women and gay people than they do about peace and prosperity.
they are now officially known world-round as the stupidist living creatures. Who the hell re-elects an asshat like Bush Jr. MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN AMERICA???!!!
Meh.
Yea I am not going to post for no reason.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
Thomas Jefferson
I would just like to say that I consider the set of values that has been deemed in America to be "Moral" is completely immoral. I've had a few discussions about "moral values" and "family values" with various people, and it seems to me that they are based more in jingoism and/or fear (depending on the particular value) than in an honest desire to make the world a better place.
Did it EVER occur to you that maybe...just maybe the American public actually value family stability? To hell with jobs, without family, I'm livinb in a world of hell all by myself. The fact of the matter is, people stick togeather in tought times. This was most evident durring the depression.
Family with moral values or jobs...hmmm let me think. Hell with jobs, they come and go. But family is forever.
Life is not for the lazy.
That should be "George". As in W. Shrub.
...that at super high levels of the Dem party that a controlled loss this election cycle was in their best interest? Look at political reality coming down the pike. The dollar is going to be devalued, severely, no way around it now if we want to export whatever pitiful remnanats of manufactired goods we still make, along with our agricultural surplus. The price of gasoline and diesel at the pump has been held artifically low because of the election, with current barrels of credu over 50$, by all rights pump prices should be closet to 3.50$. Iraq is a near rout, the only thing they have left is aerial bombardment of large areas of civilian packed cities as any sort of effective military tactic. Basically, localised small scale intense genocide. The government spending is so out of control that there is no fix for it. Private foreclosures and bankruptcies are at a 30 year high and climbing. The pension bubble is looming large, I mean really large. Real good paying jobs are evaporating, being replaced with lower paying jobs at less than full time hours with zero benefits.
All that and more is what is facing the "new and recently elected" regime. Envy them?
And that's where all the blame is being to be aimed at as each one of those factors keeps hammering on the US population.
Now, if you were the grand exalted political strategist for the Dems, would you A-take on this task now and be *stuck* with a lot of the manure that is going to be sticking to everything, or B-let the other side absorb it for at least two more years so they get good and completely covered with it?
And don't think this can't happen, in the 64 election I worked as a goldwater dude, I saw the eastern establishment Republicans not only seize control but purposely lose the election, it was a major insider coup of convenience, a double/double cross. It was simply an amazing education for me in realpolitik. They, the coup plotters who are still running the R party now, sabotaged their own election, because they knew that the US couldn't absorb a major war, a moon race, and an expansion of the welfare state all at once, plus try to slide in advanced corporatism and global profits. So they took a dive, and that is exactly what happened, they threw an election on purpose.
What goes around comes around, this election looks like that is what the high level Dems did, I mean really, Kerry was about the most dismal choice they could have made out of their lineup they had in the primaries. You could see them pushing him in subtle ways, both with what they did and how they controlled the propoganda and spin in the media. You really don't think that was accidental, do you? Of course it wasn't, so therefore, there's only one possible reason for it, and I just outlined what that is.
I didn't realize pointing out factual parts of modern European history was troll. I guess that some European moderators are a little sensitive about the truth.
BTW I never said that we didn't make things worse when we came allong. I just pointed out who laid the foundation for our current situation
Amen, preach it brother! More proof that religion is bad... BAD... BAD!!!!
Meh.
Me either
Unbelievable. People who don't read the news shouldn't be allowed to vote.
And they are telling me that believing the bullshit that Timmy down the hall in your dorm tells you is a bad idea.
Hollow words will burn and hollow men will burn.
Essentially you are correct that the Democratic Party has failed to preach and defend its beliefs.
But, there is a deep-rooted sense of independence and disdain of government dependence and regulation that is at the core of the Southern culture. You are not likely to change that. The War Between the States didn't. No amount of propaganda is going to change it either.
To succeed, the new left needs to make programs "available" and give people the CHOICE to participate in them or not. Allow the blue voters to raise their federal taxes and participate in optional welfare programs. If the programs work, then they will become pervasive policy and prosper. If they don't, they will fail, and you try a different approach.
You aren't likely to force more government on the red voter, but you might get him to buy into something that works. You have to make things that work, let them be seen, and wait for people to ask for them. Then your propaganda has something real to sell.
There is a reason for the electoral college. The popular vote would mean presidents campaigning only in certain states (California, Texas, New York, etc.) and leaving the rest to read about the candidate's planks in the newspaper.
"I don't think many Americans realise how much the world hates your president. "
And they won't realize it, until some nation in this "world" you speak of, musters the integrity to do something about it. That means, in case you haven't figured it out yet, taking military action against the US. Don't hate the US that much yet? Oh well.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
Doing my part to get this baby to the top of the Hall of Fame.
Look at countries like Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Belgium, France, etc. Do you see a lot of citizens coming over here from there to live permanently?
Setting propaganda aside for a moment, do you have any idea how much of people's income is take by the governments in these countries? If you don't please investigate. I would like better health care as well, but what goes on in the majority of these countries is nothing more than a large redistrobution of wealth. I used to live there.
It's easy to have rose colored glasses, but be realistic. Not everyone is willing to give half their paycheck to pay for everyone's problems.
If you had nuts on your chin, would they be chin nuts?
Good guys finish last.
Actually, the saying is "Nice huys finish last". And indeed, Kerry is very nice.
You also place far too much emphasis on speech hiccups just as people placed too much emphasis on Kerry's flip-flopping.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I see, so it's the Israeli lobby in the U.S. that pressures the government to support Israel, not the Jewish lobby. Of course. You're not blaming the jews for anything. I'm sure some of your best friends are jews as well. It's the neo-conservatives and Israeli pressure groups in DC that are to blame for all of America's troubles - not the jews. The jews have nothing to do with it. Those two groups are so obviously seperate and mutualy exclusive.
The power of Christ compiles you!
And I agree with most of what you want (except that there will always be taxes, although we could cut back on a lot of spending)..
BUT....
Republicans are not conservatives, and Kerry is not a liberal. George and Co want you to BELIEVE that they are conservatives, but they are not. A conservative doesn't pass every single pork spending bill his political party can come up with, or run a huge deficit, for example.
Kerry doesn't fit your definition of Liberal, and Bush doesn't fit your definition of Conservative. I'm going to assume you voted for Bush... why?
Do you also believe that the government should encourage religious values? Do you think the government should ban gay marraige?
You're also only a conservative when it's convenient to you - you don't want to help people, unless it's your father-in-law and grandfather-in-law, in which case you think they're entitled to keep the same job despite changing business conditions. Next you'll be telling us they deserve unemployment or something.
But, back to the original post, I know plenty of people who are "conservative" because they don't like black people, are convinced "liberals" are going to take away their guns, and are terrified that gay people might live happy lives together.
"Conservatives" are just as guilty of trying to run people's lives as liberals, they just try and run different parts.
paintball
Why did they not moderate this as offtopic?
It's about Kerry Konceding!
I took the opposite route, working as a precinct captain for Gephart in '88 before drifting over to the moderate right. Yeah, there used to be one.
You hit dead center when you say that the GOP has left itself open on several fronts to an aggressive liberal party. I miss the days of having two or more viable points of view, not just "this" and "not this." A good place to start would be acknowledging and welcoming voters of moderate religious faith. There is a big group between the atheists and the born-agains, and they're just waiting for someone to take them in.
I'm hoping, honestly, that this election is a watershed for democrats the way the Johnson-Goldwater blowout was for the GOP. The soul-searching and realigning that resulted from that led to Reagan, the GOP uprising in '94, and of course the current president. I'd love to see a liberal version of this.
I'll tell you what the 'effect' is! It's pissing me off!
Is anyone else out there bothered by the fact that technically, because of the use of electronic voting machines and paperless ballots, there is no way to prove that Bush actually won the election?
Oh, sure, you can argue that we wouldn't know if Kerry won either, but still, either way, doesn't that bother anyone else?
The People have spoken!
Mr. Bush won. Mr. Kerry lost, and was man enough to realize and admit it.
So to all you whiners, piss and moan all you want. Get it out of your systems. Eventually you will have to deal with the reality of it.
After all, someone will want the idiot out of power badly enough. I hear they have pretty good access to firearms over there in the US and well, that'd just be nice and ironic.
For those of you who believe in science and reason, it'll be an interesting 4 years, as science has to be redefined as to not contradict administration policy.
P =O TC-RSSFeeds0312
Here's a sample of what you have to look forward to:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=201062&CM
I think you've got a bigger problem than you're making out.
... confirm this with other non-US people if you must ... take a deep breath ... continue.
As others have pointed out, your left wing (Democrat) party would be regarded as right wing in many/most other democracies.
Pause
Your Republican party has progressively moved itself further and further to the right, and as a result you could reasonably expect it should be appealing to less and less people in the process. Obviously this isn't the case, so you have to ask why.
Reasons that occur to me:
- fear; GWB promoted a fear of terrorist attacks extremely well, and Osama bin Laden's latest video helped him hugely
- ageing population; it's well documented that people tend to move to the right politically as they age, and there's a huge grey vote that's going to grow in proportion to the rest of the voters for at least the next 10-20 years
- simple vision that is easy to understand; GWB very clearly said "Follow me and I'll lead you to the promised land, free of terrorism". Kerry's vision was a lot muddier
- positive message; GWB was all about "I'll lead you out of the darkness, as I've already done for Afghanistan and Iraq by bringing them democracy", while Kerry was all about undoing the bad things that Bush had done
- single-mindedness; GWB consistently said the same thing over and over, whereas Kerry tried to present himself as rounded and across all the issues. I doubt many people think Bush is across all the issues that would normally confront a world leader, but apparently voters don't see that as important at present
- war; countries tend not to change leaders during wartime
- religion; the Republican party clearly positions itself as a Christian party, and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are perceived by many as "good vs. bad" as well as "Christian vs. Muslim". It's not a big jump from there to "Christian=good; Muslim/other=bad" for many people
I'm betting study of how Bush/Cheney managed to win this election, against the very clear expectations of the rest of the world and after a pretty bad 4-year track record in those areas that most people thought were critical (i.e. economy, health, foreign policy, education), will become a very popular target in political courses over many years.
Tell your polticians to stop grabbing/confiscating/banning guns and pissing off the NRA and you might find that you win *every time*.
Simple. Stop FUCKING gun owners, and you have a shot. How can you talk civil rights and humanism when you piss on gun owners?
Some asshole a couple hundred years ago whined about some of the same violations of civil liberty that you hear about today...
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:
For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat [sic] the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
And the funny thing was, it was a DIFFERENT George.
All hail our ruling monarch; Another 4 years of joy here we come.
> About why I can't accept Europe as a nation yet:
I have a simpler metric. When the EU is seated in the UN as the replacement for it's former member states, then it is a single country.
Democrat delenda est
Haven't you learned from this election and the last? It's not about what they do, it's about what they say they'll do and "what they stand for". As long as people are duped into thinking Bush has "good intentions" his administration gets a free pass to do whatever he wants.
world leaders coming to work with Bush all of a sudden? Wasn't that Kerry's big selling point? He would bring "friends and allies" to the table?
Strength and determination--they smell it and fear it.
I created a table mapping the 2004 state by state ACT composite scores with presidential voting. (The ACT is a test used for high school students as part of the college admission process in the US). The states are listed from highest ACT scores to the lowest. I think it makes interesting reading.
Vote. State........ ACT Score
Kerry Vermont........... 22.7
Kerry Maine............. 22.6
Kerry Connecticut....... 22.5
Kerry New Hampshire..... 22.5
Kerry Oregon............ 22.5
Kerry Washington........ 22.5
Kerry Massachusetts..... 22.4
Kerry New York.......... 22.3
Kerry Minnesota......... 22.2
Kerry Wisconsin......... 22.2
Bush. Iowa.............. 22.0
Kerry Rhode Island...... 21.9
Kerry Pennsylvania...... 21.8
Kerry Hawaii............ 21.7
Bush. Montana........... 21.7
Bush. Nebraska.......... 21.7
Kerry California........ 21.6
Bush. Indiana........... 21.6
Bush. Kansas............ 21.6
Bush. Arizona........... 21.5
Kerry Delaware.......... 21.5
Bush. Missouri.......... 21.5
Bush. South Dakota...... 21.5
Bush. Utah.............. 21.5
Kerry Michigan.......... 21.4
Bush. Ohio.............. 21.4
Bush. Wyoming........... 21.4
Bush. Alaska............ 21.3
Bush. Idaho............. 21.3
Bush. Nevada............ 21.2
Kerry New Jersey........ 21.2
Bush. North Dakota...... 21.2
Bush. Virginia.......... 20.9
Kerry Maryland.......... 20.8
Bush. Oklahoma.......... 20.6
Bush. Florida........... 20.5
Bush. Tennessee......... 20.5
Bush. West Virginia..... 20.5
Bush. Arkansas.......... 20.4
Bush. Colorado.......... 20.3
Kerry Illinois.......... 20.3
Bush. Kentucky.......... 20.3
Bush. North Carolina.... 20.3
Bush. Alabama........... 20.2
Bush. Texas............. 20.2
Bush. New Mexico........ 20.1
Bush. Georgia........... 20.0
Bush. Louisiana......... 19.8
Bush. South Carolina.... 19.3
Bush. Mississippi....... 18.8
As you can see the top 10 states as ranked by ACT composite score all voted for Kerry and of the bottom 10 states 9 voted for Bush. I don't know what to make of this but I need to keep typing to get around the lameness filter. So this line goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever.
The difference being that I don't think I've heard any athiests trying to abridge my rights lately... but I know the "Evangelical" people in this country don't seem to have any respect for my choice not to believe in implausible things.
My biggest problem with most Republicans lately? The party seems to be overrun with people who would see athiests and agnostics burned at the stake. That's what I think they want to say but won't. How is that better than the Islamic fundamentalists in the middle east? To me, you're all crazy.
And overall, I'm cynical enough to believe that most of our leaders, from any country, just use people's religious beliefs to control them and do unspeakable things in the name of their god.
In the case of the Republicans, they've managed to convince you that because you all believe in Jesus and that mythology, that those issues are more important than your own enlightened self-interest, or the rights of your fellow citizens. The Democrats should learn from this, and come up with a longer term 20+ year plan to change this, at the state level... then I can be scared of their equally stupid policies.
I'm so happy to be here somedays.
Remember it's not that Bush wasn't guilty of stupidity, tyranny, oafishness, dishonesty, corporate cronyism, derilection of duty. The lesson is people don't like it when you accuse somebody of those things. It really makes you look bad. Also, people don't like it when you frown a lot. Smile more. People like that.
Thank goodness there are a few who remember. Thank you.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
Most people's student loans are worse than that.
paintball
While I predict the same general trend is going to hold for SATs as well, why did you choose to use ACT instead, given how SATs are more widely taken? Was similar data simply not available for SAT scores?
"American 2054 = Britain 1950?"
I'm going to laugh hard when the UK re-elects Tony Blair, and the continuation of the Bush agenda for Britain.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
After all, with such compelling arguments as "you are in for four years of hard ass fucking by a redneck who has already fucked this country more than it has ever been fucked." It's a wonder you aren't being taken more seriously.
I'm a non US'er and I've been watching this election (The first I've bothered with) simply because I was hoping that Bush would get the boot - regardless of my views on his warmongering, he's a moron and can't string a sentence together. I wouldn't want that guy being my leader. Now, I don't know if this has been talked about already here, but after the sad result, I was talking to two different people and they both remarked about the geography of the resulting states. Is there something in the fact the most of the states that actually are open to the outside world (i.e. on the coasts) voted Kerry and those enclosed by land and devoid from outside influences voted Bush... Maybe it's my lack of understanding, but on my visit the US (and, no exageration, everyone I've known who has been to the US) I have had experiences where the people just don't know anything about the outside world, and other countries. So much so that they thought my country was a state of the US... I think the insular nature of the US needs to change, otherwise, as their power grows, we will be in more and more trouble.
I wrote:
/sarcasm
Look at countries like Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Belgium, France, etc. Do you see a lot of citizens coming over here from there to live permanently?
you wrote:
Setting propaganda aside for a moment, do you have any idea how much of people's income is take by the governments in these countries? If you don't please investigate.
Gasp! You mean, the taxes are higher there than they are here!? I had no IDEA!
Umm. Yeah, I know full well the that taxes are higher there. THat is one reason why the quality of life for the average person is higher there. Although I never would have believed it 5 years ago, it is now apparent to me that high taxation is good, as long as it is not spent on military too much. Investigate it yourself. I already have. In fact, if you read my sig, you can find links to pages that discuss that very topic!
You wrote:
I would like better health care as well, but what goes on in the majority of these countries is nothing more than a large redistribution of wealth.
"Nothing more than a large redistribution of wealth"? How about "nothing LESS than a large redistrobution of wealth"? I got news for you: redistribution of wealth is a GOOD THING. Go where the redistribution of wealth is high, and there is where you will find the highest quality of living. Swden, Norway, Denamrk, France, etc.
Now, that redistribution is almost certainly not the only cause of the high standards of living. It may well be that the people are smarter or more educated, thus they know that redistribution of wealth makes for a better life for all.
Or perhaps they are just less easily fooled by their politicians than some other countries?
((COUGH)))AMERICA(((COUGH)))
Now, you will no doubt cite the Soviet Union or Cuba or N Korea as counter examples. Nope Saw-ree! They did/do not redistribute much wealth, as they do not have good gernerators of wealth. In order to redistribute wealth, you have to generate it first!
It's easy to have rose colored glasses, but be realistic. Not everyone is willing to give half their paycheck to pay for everyone's problems.
Man, talk about circular logic! Let me just point out to you what you just said: "Not everyone is willing to give half their paycheck to pay for everyone's problems."
Oh, man! Looking into your mind is like looking into one of those carnival House of Mirrors!
Let me just say this: when we take care of the weakest of us, we take care of ourselves. Do not let the greedheads suck you into their rigged game. The house always wins, and they own the House. Play the odds.
eat shiat and bark at the moon
I'd hate to be a human culture nazi, but...
:)
Now that we have a popular vote as well as a clear electorial winner, this won't be an issue any more.
You fucking westerners with your decayed idea of what democracy's supposed to mean. Not that I know either, but it sounds to me like Elvis: 58 million people can't be wrong. I'm sorry but people get it wrong. It is possible for an entire country to suffer the same madness. Here is an example:
On a side note, Bush being relected shows the rest of the world that iraq and that other place over there are exceptable responces to us not getting our way. Kerry, as hard as he tryed, basicaly shot himself in the foot when he attacked the actions in iraq.
Firstly the notion there is that other people deserve to die for whatever reason. Who told you that? Have you seen someone die and now you think it's the best solution to a problem? This right wing guy told me the other day he wanted to kill tony blair. But I think what makes me human is no, I want to make tony blair understand his mistakes and somehow find that spark in him that makes him valuable. Because he's human too like the rest of us and he must just be in a really sad place. So you think a war is a natural or an unavoidable part of civilisation, or even that it solves more than it destroys? That's already debatable. Do you know what war is? Have you ever lived in one? Have you ever had them send their planes and soldiers to kick you out or kill you for the crime of being there or being an intellectual or an artist?
Then you add the idea that because you all voted and showed your true colours, you're not *all* now included in the disrespect we the world had once for just the members of the neo-conservative members of PNAC who are all backed by horrible companies hungry for government contracts rebuilding war torn areas, taking people's water away and stopping them from drinking rainwater from their roofs. No, now I'm really disillusioned with the idea that there are so many people who think this way or can't be bothered to even think about it, but I'm going to go on doing my best because it's not going to change on it's own.
And the Kyoto Protocol? And 4 years of inaction in palestine? At least Ronald Reagan knew how to remember his lines! This new puppet also a sad scared little man and is attached to people who are attached to more people and more and more, who all want the wrong things. It's a tangled web of madness all focusing on that nucleus of stressed out businessmen. I don't know what makes you think this is going to work - that it's the long term future of this universe. We are the only things alive you know. There's probably not much more of this if we fuck this up. I don't think it can happen again. Lets preserve the world we were born in. The pieces of something that was once beautiful and is now becoming a wasteland.
We really live in an oasis. The "western world". What is it really, anymore? We're all a mix of cultures now and it's really not about whose empire is strongest - we're all just people. A lot of those people live in poverty disease and war. I don't care about nationalities! Just subjecting oneself to a set of rules and a way of life. Why should we be tied by these things anymore? You didn't get your way, so you're angry then? Is that it? No, your responses are not acceptable. But we can't do anything about it. You are the main ones who have the power to remember what it's like to be human beings and what the fuck we're doing here in the first place, and do something about it. What a backwards nation to be at the top of the world in the 21st century. I can't wait for your downfall. We should elect ethiopia next time. That'll be miles more fun. Yes, I think that's really what we need: more UN-type frameworks to bind the world and govern it above provincial nationalities and religions that refuse to understand each other. Surely if you're not in some mad sect you actually want this world to last. And maybe you even think it would be good to make this world a happy place? Then we already have everything we need in common.
Ok this was probably useless as the parent was a troll, but I really needed to let loose there for a bit, thanks
Keep in mind that we already have an extremely powerful arm of the government that represents states rather than people; the senate.
That used to be true when the states directly selected senators. Since they are now voted in by popular vote, keeping the job means satisfying voters, not the state govt.
--Tony
I stood in a University Residence in Canada watching the bush/gore results pour in. When the final results were announced, the only person in the room to say anything was an american buddy of mine.
All he had to say was "Oh $#!^, I'm going to war."
He was right.
Seeing as America is currently at war, I wonder what he would say tonight?
That way, the Red States can't impose their "moral values" on the Blue States, or vice versa.
With zero vetoes so far it would seem he controls the legislature as well. And if it weren't for filibusters he would be having an enormous amount of influence in the judiciary as well.
From now on, don't blame the world for hating America wholesale - if the majority supports what GWB does, be ready to be judged by it.
Freedom, anyone?
you know what? I used to be a christian, now I am not one, I know all about the damn bible and I don't like what it says and I refuse to live by it, I don't have a problem with you, I have a problem with your god.
I'm guessing that y'all in the red states have known how important "moral values" are for years. In the blue states, we were completely blindsided by it, and it scares the shit out of most of us. The fact is, nearly a third of the electorate believes that "moral values" are an important issue. We honestly had no idea it mattered to anyone, and most of us us are scratching our heads trying to figure out why it would matter to anyone.
The term "Moral Values" can mean a lot of things to a lot of people. I think what people thought they were responding to when asked if "Moral Values" were important was character.
Why is it so surprising that people would want a president with a good deal of character? Regardless of how you feel about each candidate, Bush did a better job at appearing to be more straightforward than Kerry, and I really think that's why a lot of people went for him. I know I'll get flamed to high heaven for daring to say that Bush came across more sztraightforward, but that's how a lot of people felt.
Personally I never found Kerry very likable. I know it sounds silly, but even just the whole thing about the Botox injections really turns me off - I cannot imagine someone that vain (or weak minded) being president. There are other reasons too of course but that's kind of like the canary in the mine.
If the Democrats had sent me someone like Dean, I could have voted for him But Kerry? Urg.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Did he misquote other vets who spoke of atrocities witnessed and committed? They happened. Truth dishonors noone. Is there any doubt poorly-led American troops are, much like other folks, capable of torture? Hint:
http://www.aztlan.net/us_torture_pows.htm
Vietnam was an occupation. We don't do those well. It is inherently dishonorable to fight that kind of war.
Kerry was right to do what he could to truthfully testify to what was going on, in an attempt to end it. What can there be to dispute? Do you have an answer to his question? How do you ask someone to be the last one to die for a mistake? It was a mistake.
What if after the election and the absentee balots and ect, are counted it turnes out that kerry wins. if kerry concedes, does that meen that bush would still win
A redistribution of wealth is only good in a society where everyone already has the mind set of being hard workers. Here in the US we have a few too many slackers who are unwilling to work because they know they can get free stuff to not do so. Especially since this wealth is(supposedly) just being taken from the "evil rich" who, after all, just got "lucky" ("won life's lottery" as Daschle would have you believe). That kind of mentality is essentially unheard of in Europe.
I recall reading of a poll in which people of different wealth status were asked what the most important factor was to becoming wealthy. Poor people said education. Rich people said hard work.
Let me tell you, the rich are right on this one. I know a lot of immigrants to the US who come here with just the shirt on their backs, and typically have a 3rd or 5th grade level of education, but who are very nicely and/or retired early because they started their own businesses and work their butts off.
If you've the mentality that poor people are poor just because they aren't "lucky", I ask you to look up Oprah Winfrey's little experiment done through the James Addams Hull House entitled "Families for a Better Life". Well, actually you'll probably be too depressed if you read it, since it thoroughly debunks this silly notion of wealth through luck. Which was exactly the opposite of what Oprah wanted to prove, but she was woman enough to acknowledge the results and concede there was more to wealth than just luck. That's a step up from Daschle, but it doesn't stop ol' Tom from trying to foist that lie off on the rest of us. And too many people believe it.
Government IS the problem.
Another sad day for the wise, another happy one for extremists, religious nuts and other blind fucks all over the planet.
Kerry, Bush, Nader, left, right, I don't care. But just look at the lack of critical thinking, the utter emptiness and lack of reason, and cry. Incomprehensible to almost anybody living in the real world outside the US. What a bleak view for the future. Most people don't deserve the democracy they live in.
Please, no more interviews with "the average American on the street", and no more documentaries of Fox 'News'. It started out funny, but it quickly became the stuff nightmares are made off.
Why does everybody around me feel so jaded about this whole election and its outcome...
it seems to me that they are based more in jingoism and/or fear
And letting any sort of depraved act happen in public, in schools, in everyone's face is good? If they don't want to see it, they have to close their eyes or deal with it? It's part of the country? Bull
If you want to run around naked or do any psychologically scarring thing to children and cry foul when someone objects because you call it a "lifestyle", don't expect much sympathy from people who want to raise their children to well-balanced adults. If you want to thrust your private life into everyone's face and expect them to accept you with open arms, or at least not block your way when you legislate yourself into the mainstream, expect some people to stand up and say that they don't care for what you do, and don't want it in their face.
When a religion that preaches love and peace gets painted as hateful and violent for attempting to stop people from doing physically and psychologically damaging things to themselves, and a movement that spreads hatred, death, and disease is promoted as good and peaceful, then you need to look at your values.
To characterize Christians and conservatives as "immoral" for promoting healthy, righteous, peaceful lifestyles shows that the "better place" you talk about is for people to stay out of your way while you damage your life and the lives around you.
I (as a Kerry voter) also concede defeat to President Bush.
I plan on sending George a congratulatory bag of pretzels.
Its that it is official: You can lie, mislead, and divide, and sucessfully win an election.
Out of country for the Clinton administration, were you?
So Bush got it. Let see when he reviels his plan to build a portal to release the DEMON OF KRAGGARDOR. Causing world-wide terror, fear, war-mongering, destruction and oppresion of people. Wait...... Well a Demon would be cool non-the-less.
Slashdot 1|0 Productivity
come on people!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Getting to declare yourself Canadian, but still getting to try to fix things here? Aces! When can I get a bumper sticker?
Of not being able to see the forest for the trees?
Just because they voted more heavily in favor of a candiate they would normally (using historical voting data) does not mean they made a wise choice. You are just twisting an observation on how New Yorkers vote to favor your conclusion.
YOu will NEVER convince me that working hard and striving gives a high quality of life. THat is SO insane! Lots of vacation time is high quality. A short work week is high quality. Medical care from the state paid for by taxes is high quality.
Having lots of time off to do as you please is high quality.
Commuting an hour a day, working your ass off, afraid you are going to be fired and lose your health insurance is NOT high quality.
WORKING HARD year in and year out in NOT high quality.
Yet 10 years ago, I said the same things as you. It is amazing how malleable young people are....
eat shiat and bark at the moon
I see that you continue your cyber-stalking.
Lies. You are fuckin lying. Canada's health care is in shambles and the taxes (all of them) add up to being outrageous.
I am not lying. Drug prices for patented medicine in Canada are negotiated and regulated by the Patent Medicine Prices Review Board of the Canadian government. From their web siteThey do not give money to drug companies to buy, or subsidize the cost of, drugs sold in Canada.
You want to fucking implement socialist constructs in the USA and you think it has NO COST?
Everything has cost, but Canada has proven that negotiating prices for patented drugs results in a savings to consumers -- regardless of whether any other portion of the Canadian health care system is adopted.
FUCK YOU.
I'm flattered, but I'm straight. Sorry.
You are the idiot here. You are also the loser. Your candidate is anti nuclear power and was anti-NRA and was a certified gun grabber / confiscator / banner.
Do you have a copy of the certificate? If so, who issued it? What guns has he "grabbed" or confiscated?
What the hell is wrong with you?
Nothing. I'm not the one stalking you all over Slashdot.
Start a socialist party so at least the name fits. Democrat no longer makes sense.
Many Democrats are in favor of purchasing drugs through Canada.
But at the very least, electors should be eliminated. There should be no possibility of "faithless electors" who are accountable to absolutely no one going against the wishes of their constituents.
+++ATH0
I suppose that we should have waited for the U.N. members to finally ok the liberation of iraq. I mean after all we didnt really give the inspectors enough time to do their job. Saddam was really working hard to remove any stumbling blocks so the inspectors could look wherever they wanted at any time for weapons of mass destruction. I mean after all we ONLY gave saddam 12 years to allow the UN to compleate their goal. Plus i mean i guess its ok that saddam was paying the families of hamas who lost members in sucide raids in isreal. Sure that must be ok.
/end sarcasim
,but at least now since the United States and other countries liberated that country, you can now vote.
As far as us Americans careing about moral issues what were we thinking? We have no right to care about moral issues! We should be going with what the rest of the world does and feel how they feel. After all we are here to serve you. Next time im sure we will consider your feelings on morals before we vote about them.
As far as war goes who are you europeians to point fingers at us? England, France, and Spain were enemies for centuries. After all france took a great intrest in our independance war soley because we were rebelling against England.
Germany started what 2 world wars?
France was the first to get involved in vietnam. France also, as i mentioned above, have had strong naval wars of conquest against England and Spain. France who are you to condem our views on capital punishment? After all you had something far worse in terms of human tourture have with the French Guiana that you formally dropped after WWII and left them there to die. At least we make the death penalty quick and swift for our convicted murderers.
Russia...U.S.S.R. and their world B.S. for centuries that countries around the world asked the U.S. for assitance when it came to deterring the Soviets from invading their land. Plus isnt russia currently invovled in a bloody civil war themselves right now with Chechnya? Not to mention Putin is now enacting so many new censorship laws that their own democracy is going back to the old Soviet days in a hurry. Why isnt there a world outcry for the Chechnyians and the civil liberty violations in Russia right now? Also the U.S. has pumped a lot of money into many economies around the world including the post Soviet fall in Russia.
The United States entered both WWI and WWII to fight along side the remaining allies to liberate france and surrounding countries and to drive Germany back to berlin and Japan back to tokyo. We have helped in times of crisis around the world when asked. We have defended Post WWII western Germany from the invasion of Russia for 4 decades. We protected South Korea from a North Korean invasion since the 50's. We (the South Koreans and Americans)are currently still in a state of war with North Korea.
After all this do i ask for the world to kiss our asses? No i do not! I dont expect anything out of anyone but the common courtesy of letting us vote for who we want for whatever reason without belittling us for doing so. We could care less who you all vote into office. We only care who you vote for when you are being forced to vote for that one person. When your civil liberties are violated and you are unable to vote or make your own choices to run your lives.
Iraq will soon be able to vote for who they want into power. We may not like who they vote in
In the United States we are all made up from immigants that came from countries around the world. I myself have a strong German history in my family and i feel very closely to Germany for that reason. I am compelled to learn as much as i can about that country and one day hope to visit.
The point of all this is the United States is asked to help in the world and most of the time we do so. Obviously we cannot answer the call all the time. We in the U.S. are brothers to the rest of the world from our immigrated ancestors from the past.
Heil Bush
Heil Bush
I, for one, welcome our new fascist overlord
Some people seem to think that I'm going on about all Kerry voters. But I am not - only about the ones that felt like voting for someone and instead voted for someone else.
There are real tangible benefits to voting for third parties even when they do not win - that is what people seem to forget.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I understand that sharing principals can lead to split votes and then weakening of a party compared to another. In fact did not Clinton get voted in partly because of Perot taking in many Republican voters?
All that means is that a platform must be different enough so as to dampen such a split, and also able to take from both sides. I really feel like the libertarian platform is at a place now where it is very different from the other ones and can appeal to people from both parties.
There is room for a few parties as long as the platforms are distinct as you note.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Violence brings more violence.
If the US will be attacked again, we don't know.
But if that happens the rest of the world will say, well didn't you vote for Bush? You should expect that coming...
To be fair, the Bush platform is only against embryonic stem cell research. Bush actually funded half a billion dollars worth of adult stem cell research during his first 4 years (it should be noted that no long term treatments have been developed with embryonic stem cells, but adult stem cells on the other hand have found their way into something like 5 current working treatments).
As for the No Child Left Behind Act, Kerry also came out in firm support of the act. Although he says he can fund it better than Bush did. If you are looking for an issue to differentiate Bush from the pack, this isn't the issue to use.
As a dedicated independent voter in the US, it constantly amazes me that the right and the left are able to pump so much SHIT information into the media. What scares me even more is that so many of you actually believe it.
As for the choice between a Bush and a Kerry presidency, most independents such as myself were quite pissed that we had to chose between two people few of us thought would be an excellent leader. This two part system needs to end so we can get some real leaders on the ballet, not your party's most favorite whippingboy.
-- No matter how great your triumphs or how tragic your defeats, approximately one billion Chinese couldn't care less.
It is only a matter of time before things like being gay, speaking freely, and desiring freedom are going to be serious crimes. Instead of outlawing the gays... Why not just kill them all. That does seem to be the current american mentallity. Personally I do not care if gays get married... and do you know why? Because it has no effect or bearing on me. However, the ignorant masses that we call fellow citizens have some sick invested interest in the opposite. This country is going to shit fast. Give it time, mark my words, our future is bleak, our outcome unsure. One thing is for sure, america is pathetic. We preach tolerance, yet breed hatred. We pretend to practice democracy, yet we're fueled by greed. We pretend to be free, yet constantly add chains to ourselves. We pretend that the people ARE the country, yet the corporations ARE the country. We pretend to care about others, yet we try to destroy them. We are an entire nation of backstabbing, pathetic, ignorant, saddistic freaks. You want proof, pay attention to the themes of all of these "Reality" tv shows... What is the underlying theme... Make friends then stab them in the back to get above them. That is the american way of life. Just my two cents.
Proves the point that the better educated vote Kerry...or at least those better at taking the ACT test.
The population of the country has increased. Sure, Bush got the most votes in history, but he also got the most votes against him of any incumbent president in history. Population and turnout were increased.
What matters is the percentage, and while Bush did clearly win it, the margin is still pretty close. Add in the fact that I'd bet many of the non-voters dislike Bush, and you have a president whom at least half of the country is unhappy with. Now I'm not saying he didn't win, but the fact that our system has come down to this seems indicative of a systemic problem.
Under different forms of government of government this would have seen an armed upraising or states fracturing off and declaring independence. Instead, because of democracy and voting people just shrug it off and decide to suffer under 4 more years of this just so they can vote again.
Really? Now what form of government would that be when half the population would nt support such an action, and activley work against it?
I think in fact our government does support such an action, as is evidenced by the civil war.
You can't rise up without most of the populace supporting such action. And right now, not even a majority feel as you do. So you can try to start a riot but all that will happen is you'll go to jail and no-one will even care - not even the guys who voted for Kerry!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I live in New York (Not the city, but in a college town populated mostly by kids from the city), Bush scares the shit out of us, because we are pretty damn sure that the war in Iraq is making us less safe.
One of the things that we notice, that we don't think the other side notices, is that there are not a finite number of terrorists that we need to kill. Our Iraq policy is making new terrorists every day. Kerry got shit for saying it, but we do need a more sensative war on terror. If we bomb the shit out of everywehere we think there might be a terrorist, we are almost gauranteeing a net increase in both number and motivation of terrorists.
We do need to kill those who are already in Al Queada, but we need to do so without recruiting for them at the same time.
Another thing we noticed is the Duelfer report. Iraq had no connection to those who seek to harm us (notice I did not say terrorists, I know about the palistinians).
We would have voted against Bush for his social policy, but his foriegn policy really hurt him too.
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
Here's one for you:
Treisman, Daniel. "The Causes of Corruption: A Cross-national Study." Journal of Public Economics 76 (2000) 399-457.
"corruption will be lower in democratic countries and those with a freer press and more vigorous civic associations, [will also] be lower in more economically developed countries, where populations are more educated and literate, and where the normative separation between 'public' and 'private' is clearer.... Corruption will be lower in countries with higher relative salaries in public office... [and] will be higher where political instability is greater."
And please don't try and say that corruption and economic growth aren't inversely correlated. They sure are. If you want to argue that, I'll put up some sources there too.
Over 3000 comments? Let me guess, I can't believe you Americans voted for Bush! You must be nuts!
Well, allow me to respond. You voted for Jaques Chirac, Silvio Berlusconi, Gerhard Shroder, and Vladimir Putin. You call us nuts?
Actually, USSR's diversion into afghanistan is what broke their economy.
First, the Red Sox win.
Second, Bush the son wins a second term -- unlike his father, and unlike John Quincy Adams or his father.
The clearance system sounds logical. It is not. It is completely arbitrary. -- John Bolton
I hope the rest of the world remembers that nearly half of the voters did not want Bush back in office. This was no affirmation that 'Americans' agree with Bush. This is proof of what strategic campaigning can do, and it is proof that our country is still rabidly divided.
Look at it this way. Out of 58 million people out of 280 million voted for G.W. bush or roughly 20% of America, or slightly under 1% of the worlds population. But look at what we have to look forward to as a result of this sub 1% voice from the planet Earth. Continued war with Iraq, perhaps even Iran and Syria. Oh, and Keneth Lay getting the Duhbya pardon. Oh less I forget, this election was about moral values, not about the fact we have so much might in the middle east our shore is totally defenceless from attack.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
> people who are attached to some other established religion.
"No faith" is indeed a faith for some. It is not for every atheist, though.
For many atheists, it's a simple statement of "I don't know". That version of atheism is very different from any established religion, simply because religions are predicated on the notion that they do know (at least partly). It's hard to have a religiously-motivated argument with someone whose beliefs are "I have no evidence on which to base a judgement".
(Of course, it's sadly true that there are a number of fundamentalist atheists whose belief is closer to "I don't know, and neither do you". Every big enough group has its share of arrogant fools, unfortunately.)
Then I humbly submit you didn't read what I wrote.
In what way is "very significant differences" the same as "almost identical"?
As I said: "Canadians and Americans are...less similar than Americans would like to think."
Where was Me inapropriate there? Stop being an anti-me nazi and learn the acutal gramatical rules for english.
That which is done from love exists beyond good and evil
Wait a second.
Who claimed that letting people run around naked is okay?
And what sorts of psychologically scarring things are we talking about here?
Anyway, since it's the day after the election and you bring up Christianity as well as "hatred, death, and disease," let's look at the things the political party that strong Christians seem to overwhelmingly support openly stands for (either through actions or words, they both speak loudly to me):
Two wars, as well as naming things which are not wars wars, such as the War on Drugs. And if we aren't just counting the past for years, you can add several more wars. Some of those, such as the Contra war in Nicaragua, make Iraq look like a friendly game of monopoly in terms of sheer evilness of tactics.
The death penalty.
Pollution. (taking stuff like mercury off the list of toxic pollutants, scaling back legislation to protect the environment, etc.)
Denial of access to quality medical care and drugs to the poor and elderly. (Most of us, even the middle class, are really pretty darned rich, and as far as I'm concerned being opposed to expansion of health care just because you don't want to pay higher taxes is one of the vilest forms of greed, only a few steps below straight up killing for money.)
Backing away from the United Nations.
Assault weapons.
Putting weapons in space.
Exemption of the U.S. from the Geneva Convention.
So, you know what? You can talk about Christianity and how it preaches love and peace all you want. And that's fine, because I agree wholeheartedly. And I will be glad to try my very best to avoid making statements that suggest I think all Christians are immoral people because I do believe that that there are people who truly live up to the model Christ set forward. One of them is a close friend whom I consider my role model.
But until the Christian Right stops its wholesale and shameless support of greed and death, nothing will be able to convince me that its members are anywhere near the path of righteousness they claim to walk.
I didn't vote for Mr. Bush and I was disappointed that he won (Nader supporter). I think the biggest problem that the democrats have is that their socially liberal message is not attractive to a majority of US citizens. Someone once said (I forget who), that outside of the coasts, USA is as religious as India and I think this election is good evidence of this tendency. I'm not saying that being pro-gay and pro-abortion aren't noble goals. Unfortunately, these items are hot button issues with a lot of people in the crucial swing states. You see those deeply crimson counties in Ohio? Those are the anti-gay, anti-abortion people coming out to prevent the further advancement of those agendas.
I don't think that Bush's victory is a total doom and gloom scenario. First, I think his re-election sends the right message to the islamic terrorists that USA is steadfast in the pursuit of our goals. This message will most quickly get us out of Iraq under acceptable terms.
Second, I believe Mr. Bush now understands the consequences of military action and will be much less likely to get involved in any other foreign adventures. Notwithstanding Bush's state of mind, the army doesn't have the manpower to do anything other than Iraq for remainder of Bush's presidency.
Third, I think that the neo cons at the DOD have been discredited by the Iraq ordeal. This means that Collin Powel and the state department are ascendant. They are more internationalist and more likely to work with allies and the UN. I'm betting that the army is going to get expanded and more troops sent to Iraq. This will be a direct rebuke to Mr. Rumsfeld, whose hi-tech warfare mantra is one of the major reasons that invasion and occupation were attempted without sufficient forces in the first place.
So despite the horrible record of the first term, I think things will be better in the second.
Now what we really should be afraid of is that rising interest rates which will pop our real estate bubble. Unfortunately this was going to be a problem no matter who won the election.
This election was more of an indicator of the sad state of liberal programs currently in schools and inability of the poor to access such an education than anything else. The poor in the South learn their lessons in churches, just as the poor in the Middle-East do. The language they hear it in is different, but the message is startlingly similar. God rules the country, not any Constitution or government.
I won't defend stupid decisions, but I will note that when people are hurting they turn towards religion. Shrub has sold himself as a religious man, and Kerry didn't. A defining and admirable aspect of born again Christianity is that the "sinner" can repent and absolve himself of all past sins by accepting Christ (however defined by the various sects and denominations). The Red states bought that Shrub is reborn. We know better.
I say that the Democratic party's best defense against religious fundamentalism is education. They need to start rebuilding the walls between church and state by winning current court cases and more of them. They need to start attacking at every possible opportunity rather than roll over and take it up the rectum like they have been from groups like Bush's "Swift Boat" Republicans. More importantly, they need to stop alienating the liberals who actually are fighting. The Democrats need to bring themselves back into the Liberal fold where Nader, Moore, and the Green party are waiting for them. They need to start backing up these fighters, instead of distancing themselves from them. The Democrats have forgotten how to fight, and need to start by liberating the minds of the young while the right-wing is busy liberating oil wells from their owners. They've got 2 years before the next elections, and they better have a "moral" center like the Red states do, but in defense of liberty, and not one particular religion.
"A liberal education ... frees a person from the prison-house of his class, race, time, place, background, family, and even his nation."
-- Robert Maynard Hutchins, The Political Animal
"Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day." - Thomas Jefferson
"I know no safe depositary of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power." --Thomas Jefferson to William C. Jarvis, 1820.
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be... " - Thomas Jefferson, from a letter to Colonel Charles Yancey, Jan 6th, 1816
= 9J =
You will be punished for electing Dubya to a 2nd term. Hillary will become president in 2008. Wait till she gets her hand on the USAPATRIOT Act. Ashcroft and Guantamo Bay will pale in comparison to what she will do.
On the bright side we don't have to worry about renewing the assault weapons ban for another 4 years.
Ummmm, how about Northern Ireland? A largely sucessful social/political solution to what used to be one of the prime terrorism hotspots in the world?
It takes a long time sure, but talking and politicking can work. Sure it takes a hell of a lot of time, and a f*ckload of courage (more than Dubya posesses obviously) to sit down with Israel, Palestine, Osama, et al and try to find a middle ground (yes, while suicide bombers and plane crashers continue), than it does to simply wade into another country guns blazing.
Don't try to tell me that the extremists are 'too extreme' to talk. Osama wasn't too extreme when the CIA were funding him against the USSR in Afghanistan was he?
gadgetophile.com
...anecdotal evidence of this coming out today. We AREN'T seeing the offical Dem party contesting ANYTHING. I was just watching the toob a little while ago, OBVIOUS very high Dem voting places with like TWO machines for the voters. Lines out the door and down the block. My little town, heavby duty in the middle of a redzone, has a bit over 100 eligible voters, that's it, and we had 5 machines. FIVE. E-voting machines that were recording R votes when they were cast as D votes. Networks changing exit polling numbers and projections for no apparent statistical reason. Allegedlyall the polls wrong. And the higher level Ds are all sitting down and shutting up about it, despite the pre vote rhetoric of having all these lawyers warming up in the bullpen, and etc. It's the great clam-up! It's like the "not me" ghost who ate the last cookies! Who did it? NOT ME!!11!! They are just gone, honest! I'm still standing here staring at the huge instant complete lack of interest being pushed by the Dem machine over this. Hence, my earlier conclusions. Had to be a very high level setup, which was suspicioned before, but I think the events of the last 24 hours prove it.
Great theater to watch really. I guess that's part of the entertainment export market. The *New* Economy!
. . .is shaking his Martini in anger.
...faith in the American public...
H AH A
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
*wipes tears from eyes*
thanks d00d, you gave me the first good laugh i've had all day.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
This election should be the last red flag before the cliff for Democrats.
At some point the Democrat have to realize that there are a lot of people that disagree with them and most of them are not 'duped' by the media, they're not 'controled' by corporations, they're not mindless zombies, racist, or ignorant. They are normal, intelligent, considerate people that disagree with them. At some point the Democrats need to stop vilifying these people and politely ask them why they disagree and then actually try to convince them next time.
Democrats need to own this loss and they need to say "This is our fault. WE did not get our message to Americans, we were not sucessful at articulating our positions in a way that appealed to voters, and we fundamentally do not know how to appeal to slightly more than 50% of American voters." and then find a way to appeal to them. If they don't do this, if Democrats keep blaming corporations, the media, hurricans, a republican conspiracy etc. etc. they will keep loosing and loosing and loosing.
Please note that I did NOT vote for Bush. I am a Libertarian and I wanted Bush to loose. Most of the time I'm happy when Republicans win but I wanted Bush to loose mainly because of my dislike for Rumsfeld and his war and Bush's heavy spending.
-RB
Freedom in our Lifetime www.freestateproject.org
From talking to people here's what I classify as the groups of people
who vote for your party.
Democrats
1. People who want handouts, and this is a very large portion of
your vote.
2. General educated socialists who think they know whats best for
everyone else, we're too stupid to take care of ourselves.
We're dumb and there should be IQ tests to vote.
3. Those who vote against what they think is the "system". See #4.
This is a very small minority.
4. The brainwashed, emotionally dysfunctional people. You control pretty
much everything except fox news and AM radio. Congratulations.
CNN/CBS/ABC/NBC/Schools/Hollyweird/print media/tv in general
Do you honestly think you would get this many votes if you were
objective? Obviously not, because you went all out this time.
Yes, Fox is biased to the right, but some of us are honest.
Republicans
1. Religious/moral/social values, something democrats lack, (Don't worry,
we all know the republicans are still corrupt.)
2. A large portion votes republican specifically because they want
to keep their money. Democrats are viewed as big government.
3. The brainwashed, who listen to there friends and family, because
obviously our side does not control much of anything.
4. The pro-lifers. I have met quite a few people who were outright
socialists who vote for Bush ONLY because abortion is murder.
Other then that, they are out and out democrats.
5. The war on terror, because generally people view democrats as sissies.
What a list. I love it when you say those "fat icky people in those
red states, dumb rednecks, hicks". All of you on the left, you know better,
because I'm racist, homophobic, and my faith is stupid and blinding.
(But if I were a muslim or a jew, you would kiss my ass)
"As Christians, we are praying that God grant President Bush four more years because of his support for the sanctity of human life, his strong commitment to the protection of traditional marriage and his stance on religious freedom and liberty in the public square," said the Rev. Patrick J. Mahoney, director of the Christian Defense Coalition.
Meh.
I was kind of hoping Kerry Would win - if only to stifle the end-of-the-world-ashamed-to-be-an-American whiners out there. Fact: we live in a virtual paradise, with unlimited freedom and nearly unlimited luxury, and all Libs can do is attack their own leader and hate more than half of their own countrymen. If you voted Kerry: congratulations you are as smart as the Hollywood elite who never finished high school and are only anti-establishment because the pop media deems it "cool". I was a liberal up until a couple of years ago. I saw an anti-war protester with a sign that said, "War is Bad" and I thought, "No sheet, how many bong hits did it take you to figure that one out". I noticed that many of you polled voted Kerry in this group. Don't worry, you'll have to grow up like me and face reality sometime. Then you will know you were wrong and embrace the truth about life, and be less hateful and more at peace with yourself and the world. Til then, try not to whine so much and look around at the bounty you share with your countrymen.
Actually, USSR's diversion into afghanistan is what broke their economy.
Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it.
The world's doomed.
Only 1% of the population are now farmers, yet they somehow manage to overweigh their influence on the US government
Once they all go out of business or leave because of the government's ignoring them in favor of purely urban interests and we've paved over every last amber wave of grain, how the fuck do you propose we feed ourselves? Cows don't graze on asphalt, ya know. Large cities are shit anyway - they're ecological nightmares as well as festering pits of the worst human nature has to offer; we'd be so much better off if we nuked NYC and LA, I can't even begin to describe it.
Interesting factoid (from Eric Sloane, you might want to try reading some of his books...you might learn something or two) - up till about the time of the Civil War and the explosion of cheap factory-produced goods, farmers, craftsmen, and other "inbred redneck trailer trash" were considered among the noblest and most important of Americans; it's only been since the Industrial Revolution that we look at farmers as uneducated hicks that are only worthy of our ridicule.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
Eight years is a blip in the history of the USA and an even smaller blip in human history. It is fun and fashionable to think you are living in "world changing" times, but in reality you are not. This election will be looked back on as only an interesting footnote.
so hmm. it is up to the Demos to convince the nation that they are not being run by leftwing nutjobs, but there is no obligation on the Repugs to explain their ties with Theonomists, Dominionists, Creationists, et al? singing hymns and holding prayer meetin's in the White House doesn't have to be explained in a country that's supposedly based on church/state separation? and Ashcroft, who believes calico cats are tools of Satan, doesn't count as a nutjob? interestingly biased DSM we're using here.
so hmmm. "our country is richer than your shitty little country, therefore we must be doing something right." and Michael Corleone is richer than any honest auto mechanic or short order cook or coder, lives in mansion instead of a shitty little apartment -- so the Corleone family's way of life must be right? wealth proves virtue?
seems like the Yanks have never really got over those deep roots in Calvinism and the notion that the Lord expresses his approval of the Chosen by filling their pockets with the ready cash; or the notion that God cares more, somehow, about the 4 or 5 percent of humanity living w/in US borders than about the other 6 point something billion.
as Rifkin said recently, it's a country strangely stuck in the 19th Century, and a lot of the exchanges here seem illustrative of that -- still fighting the last 10 wars, still reciting the ideological mantras of a Tory mill owner or one of Napoleon's ministers of agitprop -- while the future barrels down on us with a Doppler howl.
There were about 309,000 violent crimes of all types in Canada in 2002, or about 1000 per 100,000 people. This total includes all forms of assault, and is about 2/3 "minor assaults" (no weapon, not serious - "aggravated" - assault). (Source: StatsCan)
The rate of violent crime in the USA in 2002 was about 2500 per 100,000 people. (Source: USA Today)
The rate of serious violent crime in the USA in 2002 was about 500 per 100,000 (Source: FBI). Note that this only includes murder and manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault ("a reckless attack with intent to injure seriously (as with a deadly weapon)"), and so does not include all of the "minor assaults" that made up the majority of the Canadian violent crime rate.
In fact, those "simple assaults" happen at the rate of 1550 per 100,000 (Source: USDOJ), demonstrating why the comparable US violent crime rate is indeed the 2500 per 100,000 reported by USAToday, and not the artificially low number you used.
As the site you pulled your numbers from stated:
Different nations use different criteria to define "murder" and "serious assault," therefore ability to use this data to compare between nations is limited...
Using more comparable numbers seems to give very different results than you had suggested: Canada's violent crime rate is 40% of America's.
I dunno, its seems our country's morals would include fiscal responsibility, not controlling peoples hearts and how they might live.
Just because you can, does not mean you should.
Goddam is that the truest thing I've ever read. DC is the liberal bastion of the country, and it's full of the shittiest, most self-centered people I've ever met in my life. This is why Kerry lost. That and no one has ever won on the "I'm not that other guy" platform.
This wisdom brought to you by the smartest man you've never met.
I agree but I still think it's time Liberals go. They have been in power for too long and it shows. It wouldn't hurt to see some of them in jail (Gagliano, ...) to show the crime doesn't pay. Also, Bush being a Bible nut is a little over-played. Same for Conservatives here.
I never rant like this. And I'm going to use some harsh words, so those who do not wish to be subjected to my rantings need not read further. But, if you want to know why a pissed off New Yorker feels completely alienated from the "red" states, read on. I've tried to make my rant as entertaining as possible, and hope a couple people will at least glean some fun from it.
I can not believe that Americans were stupid enough to vote for this guy not only once, but TWICE. WTF, people?It boils down, in my mind, to a great quote from a some nameless NASCAR meathead driver when interviewed about who'd he'd vote for:
"I'll vote for Bush because I ain't much on the issues but I know I'll get a firm hand shake from him. A man's hand shake."
Dear god. I'm not kidding. This idiot said that. I'm sorry, but you should have to demonstrate a basic understanding of the issues to vote, and/or have an IQ above 90. If you THEN decide to vote for a dolt like Bush I will at least consider your vote valid. Sure, you'd be voting for a polar opposite ideology from mine, but at least it'd be informed.
I suggest sterilizing this man and his offspring so we're not subjected to this kind of blindingly ignorant crap again. The people who swung the vote were, in majority, people who voted on party lines based on very superficial terms. I wish we had a way to throw their votes out the window.
And while I'm on a ridiculous rant (admittedly), why don't we cover the fact that this a-hole president sent us to war on false pretense and 51% of the country finds that acceptible. Because, I just LOVE it when some ass from Wisconsin says they're going to vote for the president that will keep us SAFER when he's the one that got us attacked in the first place and my apartment was 20 blocks away. I think New York's electoral votes should have counted DOUBLE for this election just because of that. No, it's not fair... but neither was the fact that I saw the twin towers fall with my own eyes. The grain silo down the road from you ain't gonna attract the bombs. And this is coming from a person who grew up in the country and had great respect for rural america. I'm not condeming it. It's just simply not the target of terrorism.
I saw the interviews in exit polls and saw people voting for the "president that will keep us safer." Um, where are the terrorists bombing again? Wisconsin? Nope. Kansas? Wrong again. Ohio? Nope.... f***ing NEW YORK!!! My back yard, dip shit! Not yours. So the next time a president wins a popular vote in part of whole based on the premise that he's making the country safer, let's give him the boot in the ass he deserves. The people who voted for Bush, especially those in a "red" state, are NOT IN ANY DANGER, and they can bite me. The only places attacked... NYC and Washington DC voted 80% Kerry and 90% Kerry, respectively. That's right. The guy that will keep us safer managed an average 15% of the vote in the only 2 places attacked.
Now I'd like to cover the list of stupid things Bush has done, and will continue to do. The reasons why I WILL NEVER VOTE FOR A CONSERVATIVE PRESIDENT LIKE BUSH:
"Politicians find new names for institutions which under old names have become odious to the people."
First off, I wasn't spinning anything. I think NCLB was an entirely unfunded mandate. Now Bush did start funding it later in the game, but I am very disappointed that he did not do so from the get go. But as I said, this is just one of many things that irks me about Bush.
As for the choice between a Bush and a Kerry presidency, most independents such as myself were quite pissed that we had to chose between two people few of us thought would be an excellent leader.
Don't fool yourself. It wasn't just the independents that were pissed. I voted for Kerry simply because I felt he couldn't possibly do worse than Bush. That certainly doesn't mean I thought he would be anywhere near tolerable.
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -David Hume
"We hate America and we want to leave."
I think America is going the way of Iran or the Saudis.
I am an EX-American, but was born a 4th generation northern Californian (Ohio before that, Virginia before that), and can highly recommend New Zealand if you only wish to speak English. I left in '85 during the "Evil Empire" days, and had a good look around before settling down here. Obvious trade-offs. I've been avoiding the US lately, but it is quick enough to visit if you want to. The Net means you can still be in touch as well, even work for US clients.
It was clear when I left that America had some big problems that no-one was interested in talking about let alone dealing with - runaway WMD, social security deficit, victimless crimes and the American class war. My simple answer was to vote with my feet, but I still have a soft spot for the Constitution, the Founders and much of the history (see Zinn) and end up defending Americans generally around the world. It really hurts to see what it has become - essentially a loose cannon and theoplutocracy.
I, too, am REALLY disappointed in this election - until now I was clinging to the "most Americans are really not so dumb and pretty decent" and "democracy works" memes. I could understand the citizenry getting fooled and railroaded a few times. Now I must consider the possibility that they actually want to enjoy the benefits of throwing their weight around, and then also have the luxury of protesting their innocence and good intentions (or a "higher purpose"). But in a democracy I don't believe that you have that privilege.
It also seems to me that at the end of the day Kerry was a quitter. He had a blank platform to beat GWB, yet he was willing to walk away stranding hundreds of thousands of Democrats in Ohio (perhaps millions nationwide) who been cleverly forced to vote provisionally by being illegally black-listed, profiled and challenged. That single act makes me seriously question whether he was ever really serious or just a Skull & Bones stooge to keep Dean and Kucinich at bay.
Talk about demoralising voters! Imagine having waited for hours in the rain and then only being able to vote provisionally - or struggling for weeks to get an overseas ballot - and then have Kerry walk away without even demanding that your vote be counted! I guess I'm sore because I still secretly hope that there WERE more decent and non-gullible people there who saw the damage that Bush was doing both inside and out.
Anyway, as I once told a US friend who regarded "overseas" as a Mars expedition - the food works; the air works; weather is the same.
All the best.
"Not all who wander are lost." (J.R.R. Tolkien)
If you are thinking of moving out of the country because George Bush won then please do so. I think that is a great idea because you aren't the kind of American that we need hanging around. I voted for Bush, but I was definately ready to live under Kerry.
I heard a quote on CNN last night that went something like "I promise to support our President regardless of his political party. I also pledge to criticize our President regardless of his political party."
It is your responsibility to contact members of government and let them know what you think. Write letters. If you feel strongly enough about something then go out and get other people to contact their representatives.
Moving out isn't the answer.
-It writes, rates, creates, even telecommunicates. Costs less, does more the Commodore 64. Compute's Gazette
I am sorry this form of radical conservatism had a name 50 years ago, Facism. lets see we need facism to stomp out communist threat. Or today we need the moral leadership of Bush to defeat the terrorists.
Is it not very unintelligent to support not granting the same rights for a homosexual relationship as a marriage, when it has no effect on anyone but the people involved. Is it not unintelligent, to trust a leader who has lied at every turn, who has pinned the blame on Powell who is a good man or restricted his EPA administrator Whitman to the point that she resigned. Is it not unintelligent to support and start a war without a good strategy to win the peace. Is it not unintelligent to raid social security to give 200 billion in tax cuts to special interests.
I for one have had enough of King George, telling me what to do, what to think, taxing my eyeballs out while letting his buddies off the hook, spending my money in IRAQ when I know plenty of people here who could use it. I do not hate republicans either, I thought Whitman was a good governor and I used to like Powell, and John McCain is a very honest and good politician. In this election I would have rather seen the libertarian elected because at least I'd get to keep my freedoms, and my tax dollars, rather than sending my money to IRAQ and giving my freedoms to imaginary terrorists, instead of fighting the real terrorists. I for one am very upset to see America fall from what it has always been in 4 years. We are losing the country I love so don't tell me Bush voters are not totally and utterly incapable of reasonable thought. I already find that I am already yearning for the past, I remember the old America, the America that has always had a hardworking prosperous middle class, the America that had free thought, the America my great grandparents came to to build their future, the America my grandparents and parents build, the America that gave a damn about people, truth, and honor, the America that respected religion or lack-thereof, the America that lead the world in science and technology, the America that defeated the Nazis, the America cared about justice, the America that I love.
The republicans do not understand what they are doing, Bush and his cronies are getting fat off money we do not have. It will be paid for by our children and our grandchildren. Bush is shipping our jobs overseas and then making us pay for everything, under Bush corporate interests have come first. This man wanted to drill in ANWAR, that is sacred ground no other place like it exists untainted anyplace else on earth. Bush wins elections because of underhanded tactic, stupid people, and an evil genius named Karl Rove. Fundamentally these people are incredibly greedy and Bush is to naive and stupid to understand that what they tell him is not always true. Bush fundamentally is being controlled and is really a person they need to come across as religious and sincere.
So this is my piece and I have said it. I have no issue with ideology until it begins undermining fundamental features of my country and constitution. I just wish the rest of the country can see this and we can hopefully impeach this man not for lying about sex but rather for misleading the American public a far more heinous crime.
No more Fritz Hollings(D-DIS)!
The population of New Canada is now 173,496,409 proud citizens. 20 New Provinces: 1. California (35,484,453 strong) 2. Connecticut (3,483,372 strong) 3. Delaware (817,491 strong) 4. D.C. (563,384 strong) 5. Hawaii (1,257,608 strong) 6. Illinois (12,653,544 strong) 7. Maine (1,305,728 strong) 8. Maryland (5,508,909 strong) 9. Massachusetts (6,433,422 strong) 10. Michigan (10,079,985 strong) 11. Minnesota (5,059,375 strong) 12. New Hampshire (1,287,687 strong) 13. New Jersey (8,638,396 strong) 14. New York (19,190,115 strong) 15. Oregon (3,559,596 strong) 16. Pennsylvania (12,365,455 strong) 17. Rhode Island (1,076,164 strong) 18. Vermont (619,107) 19. Washington (6,131,445 strong) 20. Wisconsin (5,472,299 strong) 10 Original Provinces: 1. Alberta (3,201,900 strong) 2. British Columbia (4,196,400 strong) 3. Manitoba (1,170,300 strong) 4. New Brunswick (751,400 strong) 5. Newfoundland (517,000 strong) 6. Nova Scotia (937,000 strong) 7. Ontario (12,392,700 strong) 8. Prince Edward Island (137,900 strong) 9. Quebec (7,542,800 strong) 10. Saskatchewan (995,400 strong) 3 Original Territories: 1. Yukon (31,200 strong) 2. Nunavut (29,600 strong) 3. Northwest Territories (42,800 strong) New Canada now has 19 of the 30 NHL teams as well as hockey hotbeds such as Minnesota, Michigan and Massachusetts. We would like to welcome these 20 new provinces to a great new nation and world hockey superpower!
It's really urban vs. rural. Check out county by county votes.
Vote for Pedro
There are all kinds of sides, I am not a proxy for your assumptions. It appears you studied at the same monochromatic school of life as our president.
Democracy is tyranny of the majority. I hope now that Kerry lost, people will understand what this means.
Vote for Pedro
What is there to contest? Bush won the vote, both popular and electoral. What you can't understand is why the (slight) majority of Americans don't agree with you, so you assume something must be wrong with the voting process.
Vote for Pedro
When will people learn that enough bad already happens that we do not have to make it part of our religions or culture. We must tear ourselves from hate, he must learn to respect each other if we disagree. I do not hate republicans, I dislike what they do and disagree but I still talk to them and have some republican friends. God should be your own business, it is not to be involved in politics, if they think Bush is the Messiah then they can think that but that is not to be part of policy.
Here ya go:
n
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/prem/200411/gree
It seems George W. Bush managed to get himself re-elected, which is a pity, because most Americans will not know the trouble they've caused themselves for quite a little while.
Now Kerry may not have been the most clear-thinking person who could have been president, but there is still no doubt, in my mind, that he would have been vastly superior to Bush - if for no other reason, than his fresh overview of our current situations, many of which have gone out of hand. This includes the war, the deficit, and religious zeal, to name a few.
As for Kerry supporters, I hope you should all at least take some comfort in knowing... well... actually, never mind. You have nothing to take comfort in, except if you are rich, actually. The one thing Bush's reign is guaranteed to do is make the rich even richer, and the poor even poorer. So, enjoy it while you can!
Some folks I know think the Democrats are always out of touch with the people. Perhaps the real problem is that too many people are out of touch with reality. The reality, for example, that the rest of the world thinks we stink. Or the reality that God is not going to come down and give us all a heap of great miracles, because we decided to ban gay marriages and stop funding of stem-cell research under His name.
Bush fought a dirty war - a very dirty war that fed off of people's fears and irrational beliefs. Even though the most citizens may have really voted for him, I still say there was a sense of fraud at the polls. (I'm not just giving homage to Citizen Kane.)
In the war between the rational, and the irrational, the irrational will always win - because they can fight dirty!
(Like what you've read here? Visit www.MitchLampert.net for more such verbiage.)
Sorry. I was a rant after all...
But my point was basically the "square" states and their 3 electoral votes. I have friends from Wisconsin and I don't hate Wisconsin. Sure, everyone from Wisconsin is ugly and inbred, but I don't hate them for that. (joke... I swear...)
For the record, though, the woman I saw on CNN was from Wisconsin and that is what she said. So, in summary... no offense to Wisconsin-- the cruel mistress of my wrath.
"Politicians find new names for institutions which under old names have become odious to the people."
it would appear that you have made the basic assumption that democracy will still exist in the USA after another 4 years of George W. Granted, however, that there is a very good chance that the USA will be in one war or another in 2008. The question only is in regard to which country that will be: Iraq, Iran, Syria, North Korea, or Venezuela (oil). This does present an opportunity to establish an on-line wager/pool regarding exactly which country the USA will be at war with.
I have to admit that at the time, I was not paying that much attention to campain issues - I believe around that time I thought Dean a sho-in for the nomination!
Was the microphone thing really the instrument of his downfall? I never did understand how Kerry pulled ahead of him, it always seemed like working of the Democratic party to me.
I would love to see an in-depth analysis of what happened to Dean in the primaries. I never really did get the full story there.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I must start by saying I love GW, now, hear me out, he is in fact brilliant. That's right, Bush, is a very good politician, I don't know about leader, but he's a great politician. Any man that can convince a poor working class guy in the south to give even more money to some rich guy is a brilliant politician as far as I'm concerned.
I've realized why the rural working class of the south and mid-plains (west) are the poorest Americans in the nation, it all came to me right after I realized that some yokal in west b'mble hills dumb state is more concerned with whether some gay man wants to but slam some another gay man, and he can go out and shoot the two of them with his new automatic AK-47, than whether he can provide a decent living for his family or take them to the doctors when need be and it not cost his family literally their arm and leg.
The whole lot of 'em are too busy toting a bible they can't read, screaming about the sanctity of life, while they wrap a noose around a tree limb or in more modern days flip on a light switch, as some dude who probably went crazy and stabbed and raped his sister, "after learning to kill some babies with a hand grenade or a tomahawk cruise missle in some war in some foreign country and rationalizing, hey murder ain't so bad", get's ready to fry.
When a man can make moral hyprocacy seem divine mandate, the rich getting richer benefitting the masses, and deny any fringe benefits like health care and proper education to the have nots seem as the way things should be, I can not help but applaud his brilliance. Subidize the rich but don't subidize yourselves? Any man that can make that point get over, we would have to say in conclusion is a great politician.
Just to be clear, before you don your tinfoil hat you might want to remember that the order is innocent until proven guilty
Apparently you haven't been paying attention for the past three years. The Bush administration has suspended habeas corpus . If the Justice Department declares that you are a terrorist, the concept of innocent until proven guilty does not exist.
There are people that have been locked up for the past three years without a trial, without even being charged with a crime. The Bush administration will not allow them access to an attorney. The Bush administration will not allow them to contact a court and request their speedy and public trial (sixth amendment). They are not even allowed to challenge the government's assertion that they are "terrorists". As the PATRIOT act is written, Bush can simply call you a terrorist and have you locked up for the rest of your life without a trial.
The act also allows for secret trials which, upon conviction, will result in the death penalty. The defendant is not allowed any means to prepare for the trial, not allowed access to an attorney, not allowed to see evidence which could prove their innocence, and not allowed to call witnesses which could prove their innocence.
It appears you were completely ignorant of these facts. It would not surprise me at all if the millions of people who voted for Bush and Kerry were ignorant of these facts as well.
If Kerry can't win the election, at least his thread can win the Slashdot Hall of Fame!
Vote with your comments, people!!
Where do you get the idea that I think something is wrong with the voting process, or that 'the (slight) majority of Americans don't agree with me'?
What in my parent post gave any indication of how I voted?
Wow, that's really rational. I know, I know. We're all dumb rednecks, we don't know any better. You are englightened and know what's best. You are intelectually and morally superior to us in them dumb red statews.
Gee, how many seats did we gain in the senate and the house? And you wonder why you are losing. Maybe you should take your medication.
As I recall, Hitler and Stalin were also men of action. So is bin Laden. I must part company with you on respecting people simply for being men of action.
Bush is no Hitler, Stalin, or bin Laden, but his action is making the world safer for terrorists. That's why Al Qaeda endorsed Bush and why Iran's parliament just voted unanimously to go full steam ahead with their bomb project. Because Bush doesn't have what it takes to stop them.
In the 1940s, it took FDR and Truman three years to lead America to victory Germany, Italy, and Japan, bring order and stability to those countries, and make the world safer. In three years, Bush has managed to defeat the much less imposing armies of Saddam and the Taliban, but hasn't stopped bin Laden or al Zawahiri and hasn't brought order or stability to either defeated country.
As to removing dictators from power, Bush supports dictators, such as Musharraf of Pakistan, the Sauds of Saudi Arabia, or President Hu of China, when they suit his purposes, and supports pardons for those like A.Q. Khan, who sell nukes to terrorist states.
If Bush had the balls of a Churchill or even Maggie Thatcher, he'd take on major totalitarian states, such as China, or fight Putin's coup d'état in Russia, instad of farting around with pipsqueak nations such as Afghanistan and Iraq.
At least Dean would have been different though, and that degree of difference might have attracted more people. Kerry always seemed to be like "I would do the same thing, only better!!". Dean had spirit, and even if people agreed with some of his platform that might have gone a long ways.
I believe you are pretty much right about the majority of the public agreeing that Iraq, though messy, is OK by them (and also I do believe a lot of people were wary about changing over leadership at a crucial time as we move to elections and so forth). They had a sort of demonstration with elections going OK in Afghanistan, which I thought was oddly not mentioned much by either side (perhaps I missed those ads). So perhaps that would have derailed dean eventually anyway.
The bit about voting for hatred was not necessarily to imply Dean was better in that regard, just that Democrats were so focused on hating Bush they forgot to mention just why anyone should vote FOR Kerry. That was a huge mistake and I know the sheer degree of vitrol spread by some really turned off a lot of people.
I think the main thing I was trying to say was just that they needed somebody with more fire in them.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
That aside, I think that there were a number of fubar events by the Kerry campaign. If we can figure out what went wrong this time, maybe we can fix it next time. Note that I live in Southern California, and thus wasn't subjected to 15 political bullshit sessions an hour on TV (thank God). However, I think that Kerry screwed up on:
There are a handful of other things he could have done too, but I doubt they would have helped much. He could have tried to explain that trying to smash terrorist countries won't help, that you have to erode their base of support (*cough*Israel-Palestine*cough*) by addressing their 'issue', but I doubt that the average idiot would have understood, and Bush would have spun it was "Weak on terror!" in a microsecond. Another possible thing to go after would have been fiscal conservatives, on the basis that Bush took the largest surplus in history and turned it into a deficit that's growing at Warp 9. Didn't hear much on that either.
On the rather more negative side, he could have (long before 11/2) made a huge stink about e-voting paper trails. Beat the Diebold CEO horse ("Deliver Ohio's electoral votes to the President" sound familiar?) like Bush beat the flip-flop horse. In short, cast the legitimacy of e-voting precincts that went to Bush in doubt [One previous poster (unconfirmed) says that the exit polls and tallies were different by 5%+ for Bush in counties with paperless e-voting machines but not in those without or with paper trail. Can anyone confirm?].
I also feel that this election underscores a desperate need for election law reform in America. Why the HELL does a car commercial need to be more truthful that the campaign to decide who will be the most powerful man on earth? Of all the (thank God relatively few) political ads I saw, almost none of them offered anything positive about thier guy. All they did was slander the other guy's character.
Another thing that has to go is the goddamn electoral college. It does not execute the will of the people, as was demonstrated very clearly in 2000. Indeed, without the E.C. I wouldn't be writing an essay about how Kerry lost to Bush. Because of it's inclusion of Senators in the count, it gives a substantially inflated amount of influence to rural states (The vote of someone in Montana or Alaska is worth almost twice
Yeah, German and Russian are both awful languages. Possibly even uglier than English. I would gladly submit to French, Spanish or Italian-speaking overlords, though...
American action against the Axis didn't come until after the Axis had actively begun invading other countries with obvious intent to invade more. Not nearly the same situation as with Saddam. If our case to remove Saddam was put before our own court system, it woulda just been a mess of circumstantial evidence. A case against Hitler would have been an easy conviction.
To remove dictators from power means paying lots of money and losing lots of lives to scortch earth. To blow money on destruction. To expend energy to create entropy. There's plenty of governments doing bad things to people, but perpetually fighting them doesn't seem like a realistic proposal to me.
(And so maybe, then, I'm biased against war, but I frankly think that's the proper position to take as a human being. War itself is a bad thing, and its use should be reserved for cases where it's the only option.)
Percentage wise more people in rural ares on social welfare than individuals in urban areas. That's how stupid you a$$ backward, AK-47 toting dip $hits happen to be.
The rural south is the poorest area in all of America, but your so d*mn ignorant that you'll vote for a man who tell's you to subdize the rich, but not subsidize yourselves.
F'king idiots. You take that hand shake while he reaches around and grabs that dollar from you and doesn't even give you a kiss good bye.
No wonder, the rural south is the f'king poorest part of America, cause you don't even notice how his policies ensures that dip $hits like yourself keep making the corporations and people like Bush richer. He'll tell you to give him money, but not give yourselves money cause "you don't want to support someone else?"
F'king morons, unbelievable. Your worried about Gays but the Republican Oligarchy keeps bending you ever and not use any vaseline and your too doped up to even realize it.
I don't mean to be so harsh, but dayum, come on, please for the love of all things good use some logic.
This has become the second most popular article on slashdot.... and it has nothing to do with computers or anything remotely related to "News for nerds"
check it out here
Facts:
1) Proportionally the poorest members of American society are in rural portions of southern states and rural areas in general.
2) Consistenly lowest scoreing states on standardized test are southern states.
So, yeah, I would say the education and wealth in the south is lacking, or disproportioned to an extreme small minority in those southern states who steer the lambs to slaughter. And I clearly understand why now.
Furthermore, what the f'k does the number of seats you won have to do with your intelligence. YOu only further prove my point. That would prove your consistent, not intelligent, consistently dumb.
I'm not a democrat, but I'll explain why they are losing, they have yet to realize that rational doesn't exist in the red states. Once they realize that gods, guns, and gays supercede education, health, and wealth than the dems can tailor a message to your stupidity. ATleast, you'll be sick, poor, and only confined to f'king barn animals but have your AK-47 to shoot them when the barn animals decide to press charges.
Manhattan results: 82% Kerry, 17% Bush I know its historically a very liberal area, but you'd think the terrorism threat is a lot more important there than anywhere else, and it was still a democrat landslide. Not that it matters now... all those people on farms in Nebraska were too worried about terrorism.
due to bush policies, there are over 1000 dead american soldiers from the war in iraq. this does not include the dead civilians who are over there rebuilding what we single-handedly destroyed without the backing of any other major world power, with the only exception of england (and poland, don't forget poland).
due to bush policies, the majority of the middle east continues to hate the united states, perhaps more than before.
due to bush policies, osama bin laden is still alive and kicking, probably planning another large scale attack on the united states, which will, no doubt, be carried through successfully.
due to bush policies, every american that died for the freedoms this country stands for died in vain as those freedoms are being slowly, but surely, taken away.
due to bush policies, iraq may soon have their first free elections... which will almost certainly be riddled with attacks on the "free" people attempting to vote for their new leader, assuming he isn't killed, which has happened already. this also doesn't include the possibility of the most heinous form of death given to the contractors helping out the newly "freed" iraqis.
i think the answer is pretty damn clear.
please me, have no regrets.
Truth by Popularity
is a valid means of obtaining objective truth.
You have just proved that you are an idiot. Either that or McDonalds really is the best restaurant on earth.
Think about what happened to Nixon after he won reelection.
Then again, that would put Cheney in the Oval Office. That's scarier than Bush.
You just don't get it. People like you are in the minority.
Irresponsible - Willing to kill for convenience
Not willing to stand up to murderers
Making others pay for your mistakes
Trying to legitimize abnormal behaviors
Valuing vegetation higher than human life
Stealing wealth from the successful and giving it to the wasteful
I could go on and on.....
It is coming to an end. We won all around because we are right and you are wrong. Watch and see.
Move to Canada then, Demoncat. Dont tell me what I SHOULD BE DOING with my fucking tax money, pig. You fucking socialist commie pig!
DONT YOU FUCKING TELL ME WHAT GUNS I CAN BUY, EITHER!
You fucking communist! You are stalking me with your words, they ring in my brain after I read them I get no sleep and I'm in a psychotic ferver over this! How dare you be so presumptuous! Motherfucker. The tentacles of CHTULHU are coming from your fag e-terroristic essence over the wire and fuck my mind!
You threatened my life, you want to take my guns away, force me to pay for your fucking prozac, you want my power to be non nuclear You are evil!
The dark lord is in you. There were many apostles, but you are the dark apostle of the fallen angel. You are an Islam spy wanting to kill the American Dream with your totalitarianism and jack booted thugs controlling me from cradle to grave. You want to rob me of my rights. You want to put me in ovens and burn me after your disarm me. You want to kill murder rape and pillage the American way of life. You are a dangerous queer threat to man's existence, you fucking existentialist totalitarian fucker! Humanity wont survive with cancerous malignant metastatised fucking enemies withing rotting the human drive and spirit away with your competition stifling government! HELP ME GET AWAY FROM YOUR EVIL!
Youre right, just a little behind. There are not so many allies left to alienate (and yes, I forgot Poland) and the world watches its sole remaining super power`s failure live on TV every day. Add the threats the bushites emit on a daily basis to the danger the US deficit represents to world economy (and the unability of the US to sustain itself as the underlying econosocial reason): the US is a main source of instability now, instead of its guarantor. A change that took less than four years, creating enough reasons for about every nation on earth too rethink its position towards the US - its way more than mere antipathy. I wouldnt be surprised to see NATO (which is already irrelevant as a military alliance, as it is designed as a defensive alliance) fall apart soon. Of course that would mean nothing less than closer european-russian bounds... Bush may succeed, where Hitler and Stalin failed: in creating an eurasian powersphere from atlantic to pacific. They are a perfect match, from whatever side you look at it and all it may take is a perceived common threat. I dont think the average american has any idea how big a failure Bushs foreign policy is: nations tend to act based on their interests (an arguement usually brought on in excuse of Bush, so Ill hold the Bushites to that) - the art of diplomacy is to modify inconsistent interests of other nations, so they blend with your own. Instead he actively created interests that are contradictory to his goals. Given the stubborness demonstrated, hell continue on this path. Project for a new american century, well, there it goes down the sink.
Should have listened to europeans like this french guy. Its the same guy who correctly predicted the fall of the Soviet Union a decade before it happened.
Life has become the ideology of its absence - T.W. Adorno
You want to help? I guess by your rationality, since blacks consistently score very low on standardized tests, we should shoot all them niggers huh?
Are you stoned? Have you looked at your postings? What's wrong with you?
If you claim that you're going to move.. then move.
All these worthless threats. If you want to change the system then change it. But you're not going to do it running around saying that you want to the UN to be apart of everything, that you're not a fan of the Military, that guns should be banned, and that Gay's should have full rights....
Seriously. You just can't do it. Not here. In your city? San Fran.. New York.. maybe. But look at the electoral map by County. It's almost all Red.
http://www.hannity.com/img/election_map04.jpg
Only place I could find it real quick. Look how much red. If what I said is what you believe in, then you're just not going to be in power... you do NOT have the majority view.
This is why Nader doesn't win. This is why Kerry didn't win.
Either that, or start understanding how the real world works. Too many kiddies are sound bite sallys and never stop to fully understand the truth.
Four more years....
www.slightlycrewed.com - Because aren't we all?
Bzzzt. You lose. You didn't take the test correctly. The test is "Without mentioning the other candidate, write 3 things you like about your candidate."
So far, no Kerry supporter has given ONE reason why they support Kerry. I have given six reasons so far why I support Bush. Here are some more:
1) Bush doesn't treat Midwesterners and the South with disdain as the northeast liberals do (as evidenced by slashdot).
2) Bush has given us all tax cuts (not just the rich)
3) Bush doesn't support gay marriage.
So please take the test: "Without mentioning the other candidate, write 3 things you like about your candidate."
I'll bet you can't come up with 3.
Then why is everyone here depressed? Why are studies showing that depression is far worse in the US than elsewhere? And why is everyone here working non-stop? Why do Europeans get 3 weeks of vacation out of the year?
Obesity doesn't correlate to prosperity. Obesity correlates to eating too much fat. People in other countries have easy access to food, they just exercise self-control and have healthy eating habits.
Lots of replys here talk about compassion from the democratic party? That is a joke, perfect example is the amount of hate in these posts. Don't mention compassion if you are talking ranting. If you were truly compassionate you would realize some interesting facts:
1. Genocide in Africa - This is caused because there are over 600 references in the Koran to killing Christians and Jews. Muslims are creating a huge refugee problem the world is just now noticing by killing off all the Christians in hopes to purify thier country.
2. War in Iraq - I would rather fight a coming war on other countries turf. Not on our own. I have lots of relatives buried in other countries who beleive in the USA and what it stands for. I would rather have those relatives buried there then your mother or brother or sister buried here when it could have been advoided. Saddam violated rules left and right from the UN. The US was trying to give a backbone to the UN, but failed in doing so. The UN has turned into lets hate the US club because we are powerful and successful.
3. Isreal/Palistine problem - Why would a Bush waste his time when Clinton gave the Palistenians 98% of what they wanted and they still WILL NOT accept Isreal as a soverign state. The reason they WILL NOT accept Isreal is from the 600+ references in the Koran mentioned above. It's time to drink a big cup of wake up and get real on this issue people.
Now once you realize what is going on you can talk about compassion. I'm sick of hearing that word from people who are very self-serving and want everything now.
You call that intelligent discourse? We're stupid, and ignorant, and bleep, and bleep, and bleep... What's wrong with you?
An economist only cares about the economy of the US. From this perspective, invading Iraq and killing innocents is ok, because it creates jobs.
Personally, I found it deliciously ironic that the swing state in this election was Ohio...
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
I heard a lady say on the news she used some kinda voting device to vote for Kerry and the machine registered her vote for Bush.
Computer glitch or election fraud?
You decide.
I have much more respect for those with truly American courage who are not afraid of taking the risk to remove dictators from power
The motto of the state of Virginia is "sic semper tyrannis". This appears on the seal, which depicts a man standing over the body of a deposed tyrant. If we held to this unfailingly, this would be a far better world, but unfortunately, far too many tyrants get to die of old age.
I regret that the USA, and in fact free people all over the world have often been so reluctant to stand up to dictators. Britain and France's hesitancy in the 1930's cost tens of millions of lives (but thank heaven for the RAF, and a British prime minister who wasn't willing to capitulate).
I'm disgusted by the fact that that the USA tolerated Marcos, Duvalier, Sukarno, Noriega, Palahvi, Pinochet, Peron, and many, many other dictators just because they were anti-communist. If we had pursued a consistent moral agenda throughout the cold war, I believe that the Soviets would have collapsed much sooner than they did.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Boy... the first time in my life I think about buying a gun, just in case you happen to live somewhere near me. And believe me, it`s not fear...
Life has become the ideology of its absence - T.W. Adorno
Is it just me, or is it just a tad ironic, that when I viewed the comments, the advertisement at the top was for Doom3... hrmm... Is this a sign?
I'm only paranoid because everyone is against me...
Bring it on fuckhead. I group tight with open sights at 100 yards with rifles, and can easily dump a high cap 9mm rapid fire within the size of your chest at 15 yards - so bring it on - come attack with your gun. You threaten me and I'll take you down like I would a deer without blinking, and I would ask the coroner for your liver to feed to my dog.
I admire your optimism. But I doubt any political education can ever get through the fog of misused patriotism clouding american minds, before some major slide down on the international scale. It's like telling the muslims the sharia needs some adjustments...
Life has become the ideology of its absence - T.W. Adorno
Crank up a LEFTwing propaganda machine.
What, Dan Rather isn't enough for you?
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Now to the subject of this message: The real issue is the spending deficit, which is huge, and the economy, which is a freaking disaster. The last props of the latter being unsustainable tax cuts and foreign investment, we could see some serious shit hit the fan in the coming years, esp. as the baby boomers start to retire (tax revenues lost, gov't expenses go up) and (possibly) Europe and Asia start looking like better places to invest than the good old USA.
So let's see -- the dollar drops sharply, interest rates to go up, house prices go down, the stock market crashes, and in short we'll all be trapped in the US at the mercy of a fundamentalist religious wacko regime, freezing our asses off because we can't afford foreign oil or a ticket to get the heck outta here. (Oh, and no sex because you won't be able to get birth control or an abortion, not that this affects this crowds that much.)
Meanwhile, we're pissing not just our manufacturing and software jobs but also our basic know-how and innovation overseas. Witness the last 50 years of technological history: We are losing our edge as technological leaders.
Folks, this is not a good formula. The one thing that might save us is a cheap dollar, which could reduce our trade deficit but if we don't have anything of value to sell we're screwed. At best we can hope a cheap dollar will re-attract foreign investment mainly based on our track record last century or some glimmer of hope we'll stabilize above mediocrity (which I'm not seeing at the moment, but then I'm not a foreign investor nor, lately, an optimist).
What I'd like to see is some real thinking about where the heck we're going as far as our legendary American Ingenuity, source of all our current wealth and power. But in Washington I'm not seeing leadership, just fear-mongering and plundering.
You would benefit from a LOT more research, particularly regarding Palestine and the partisan Jewish politics, -and far less indignant proclamation.
Clinton was no hero, but to blame Palestinian leadership for the failure of peaceful agreements being reached is the result of a severe lack of attention.
-FL
Actually, the taliban are probably believe in more civil rights than the extreme right wing god/gun nut that voted for this time around. Remember, it was only 150 years ago that those same people were trading slaves. If you ever bothered going to the south, even places like Texas, you'd know that, if these nuts were given the choice, they would go back to enslaving black people. Heck, wasn't it only a few years ago that a black guy got lynched by having his body dragged along a rural dirt road for miles until his body disintegrated? Southerners completely fear black people. You would find very few of them in a republican convention, even though they comprise a large portion of the south, like 30%.
So, yes, what we are truly saying is, YOUR COUNTRYMEN are worse than the Taliban. They worship a god that rational northerners have genarally rejected, while at the same time remain a parasitic scourge to rich industrialized northern states.
We're better off without them. Cut them off. Let them fend for themselves. The north would do just fine without the American Taliban.
I certainly don't want to be associated with any red state at this point...
You might want to head over to Common Dreams and read Sarah Anderson's Ten Reasons Not to Move to Canada, as well as Bryant Urstadt's Readers Guide to Expatriating on November 3rd.
Lefty Canadians like myself would love to have you, but it's important to think about whether jumping ship is a better alternative than staying on board and continuing to fight for what you believe in. And, for what it's worth, not all of us outside the US believe that everyone within supports the policies of the Administration. We might think little of your Government, but we still love you, even if a lot of your countrymen don't.
There is a spellbook here; eat it? [ynq]
I am speaking German you insensitive clod!
Free as in mason.
Just had to get that off my chest.
Follow this link, then look at the filename of the photo of gorge bush (top left)....
"there goes the planet"
Nothing will change until we get out of a two party system mentality. Nothing. I don't understand why people don't see that it's just too fucking easy for a powerful group of people to buy BOTH parties, give the general population the bone every four years, and say "just be glad you have the right to vote!" When was the last presidential election where we actually had someone we really wanted to elect? 1992 :-/? 1980 :-)? 1960?
If the Internet is supposed to be this massive force of change, why can't an internet based "popular" party nominate someone through the Internet, and then everyone can vote for that person to do an end-around this fucked up two party system? You know, I can just see all the fat-assed geeks say "well, just think of the fraud from overseas voters, and blah blah blah." Well, instead of just sitting there on your big fat asses and criticize, why don't you use your supposed massive intellect and THINK of a way to do a national based internet nomination of a candidate... Our only other alternative is for everyone to choose another party such as this or this.
I also think it's time for all the Democrat and Republican Koolaid drinkers to wake up from their coma and realize these two choices are actually more alike than different. They are in agreement with military issues, immigration, and other misc. topics. So what does that leave, abortion? Great, that's leaves a whole lot for me to pick from...
Until then, don't be surprised for another round of pick the worst of the two in 2008...
And I thought you guys were the party of tolerance... damn, makes me glad I'm an evil fascist gun-toting closed-minded asshole!
I would love it if the population could be liberalized first. Could the democrats start a campaign equating religion with atrocities? Christianity=bad? That it's OK to enjoy life every now and then? That the thing called "God" that you worship, not everyone believes in or cares about? That it actually doesn't affect you if gay people have sex? That abortion is a good way to have as much sex as you want without having to have a kid? That sex with reckless abandon is a happy thing? That drugs are fun for the whole family? That prostitution is a good way for ugly people to finally sex? That gambling is a fun and entertaining activity thats good for the economy? That porn is fun? That cursing is a good way to let your frustrations out? That breeding kids isn't the ultimate goal in life? That conservatives make horrible music? That there are better things to do in life than to worship God? That listening to a blue-polyester clad preacher for hours is actually creepy? The list of conservative-bashing could go on and on, and would be quite entertaining.
It would be great to fix the population first before having democrats attempt to gain any control. What good is a government if the population itself is horrible?
Plus trying to compete with the US in space programs and weapon research, without the dough. And I don't think they were actually trying to help the people....
"In six days God created Heaven and the Earth. On the seventh day He rested...
...see you at the finals!"
Cheers
Stor
"Yeah well there's a lot of stuff that should be, but isn't"
To all the people who voted for Kerry because it was a vote against Bush and the Republican party (NOTE: not the same as liking Kerry), will another four years of Bush push you enough to vote for Hillary Clinton in 2008, regardless of which Republican runs?
Who will bet that Hillary runs and gets the nomination for President in 2008?
Of course it is one of the greatest aspects of my life that i greet my colleagues with "morgen!" instead of "heil !" or "dobroe utro!" and i know that i owe that - or at least a very big part of that - to the american people.
I still think that Iraq is worse off now than it was under Saddam Hussein, and will be for at least 5-10 years, if not longer.
Stabilizing the country will mean planes with soldiers going US-%gt;Iraq and planes with caskets coming back for a long time, which will be pretty hard to justify politically. I don't even want to think about what will happen when that effort can't be kept up for long enough.
I think invading Iraq was a very bad choice, leading to more hatred against the US and to more recruits for terrorists. Instead of making the world a safer place, it will be less safe for years to come. That alone should have been reason enough to vote Bush out.
Free as in mason.
Read up some history. Especially read beyond encyclopedia entries. Facism was a form of nationalist socialism. Mussolini started his political career in trade unions in Italy after the I-st world war. As to NSDAP - Germany ruled by them was the first country to introduce some of the solutions now associated with "welfare state".
I mean to put "representative democracy" in quotes. The idea being that we pick people to go out and vote in the electoral college, and those people do actually vote for the President, in theory representing the views of those who picked them (although they are not required to do so)
-------------------------------------------
I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells.
-- Dr. Seuss
Do you really really think there would be a significant difference between Kerry and Bush in real life? Isn't it obvious that there could be small adjustments here and there but the overall course of American policy has to remain the same since US interests and world challenges don't depend on who's in the White House.
Anyway - a word of advice from the distance (which gives some prospective). Democrats - cool down, this is not the end of the world as you know it. Republicans - rejoice, you won so you can have some celebration but don't stump too hard on the other side.
But both sides - remember, you are all Americans, you live in one country and would have to work with each other no matter how this or that election turns out. Too much wounded hopes on one side and too much triumphalism on the other lead to too much hate. And hate is not good for anyone.
Um, isn't that the Bush/Cheney team right there? Well, they can't ditch Bush because he's just so darn disarming to voters.
Someone (Buddha? Dogbert?) said "stupidity should be painful". When the abovementioned voters' children come home honorably discharged amputees, and the government screws them out of benefits, those voters' prayers will have been effectively answered.
At this point if Osama set off a few dirty bombs in the bible belt, I swear I'd send the motherfucker a dollar.
Posting anonymously so I don't have to sugarcoat this. Burn Ohio.
Maybe one thing a lot of people have forgotten is that the reason violence is escalating in the world is because of American interference in other countries afairs because they see themselves as the world police.
Terrorists feed on publicity. By publically declaring a 'War on Terror', and interfering in Middle East Politics because of Oil, Bush has set himself up for just endless waves of attacks.
A better approach would have been to go after these people quietly using special forces.
And for those people who say that Afghanistan and Iraq were terrible regimes and needed to be brought down - yes they did. True. But there are other countries out there with much worse records...
North Korea - Terrible human rights record, but has Nuclear weapons now, so no chance of the US interferring there. Also no oil.
Africa - Most African states are in civil war and commit horrendous human rights abuses. What does the US do there? Nothing.
Bush is a danger to the whole world. By aligning himself along religous beliefs he is making himself no better than the religous fundementalists he purports to despise.
"I still don't get why liberal means pussy, yet conservative doesn't mean poorly educated white trash."
- Because I for one am about to get my MD degree in one of the top US Medical Schools (after immigrating to the US at the age of 13. The last thing I am is "poorly educated white trash."
US got attacked on September 11th. Instead of sitting on its hands and pondering about the lack of a country on which the war could be declared, America turned around and went on a crusade. Yes - a crusade to uproot the true and potential enemies.
In the past Iraq tried to invade another country for oil. US stepped in and protected Kuwait. At that time US troops did not cross over into Iraq and remove Saddam, and as far as I am concerned invasion of Iraq this time is simply a move to finish that business. A regime that openly financially supports suicide bombers should be removed. If you think it should thrive - raise your hand...
The Americans who voted for Bush realize that they live INSIDE the US of A. Are you an an American living in the US? Are you complaining that the war is being waged to take over Iraqi oil? Even if it is - realize that it means money flowing into the US. Oh and by the way - are you complaining about Microsoft mostly for being a monopoly and push people to use Linux? Realize that Microsoft is an American company and their products bring money into the US economy.
The internet has done a great deal towards erasing boundaries between [english speaking?] countries. The interests of different countries however remain separate. Don't forget to think of the benefits for YOUR country when fiercely defending the view which originated half way around the globe.
A US-centric view? Of course... How many Americans rooted for the Russian team at lake Placid?
If Americans want Bush running your country for another four years, fine, you deserve it. Now, please try to keep him from fucking up the rest of the world. And don't be surprised with the way you get treated when you are abroad.
As the great pioneer of democracy, we are witnessing something historic: how a democracy dies. As the ignorant, illiterate, inbred, religous fundamentalist nut balls, uneducated and corrupt corporate cronies in our once great nation get more and more power let the rest of the world's democracies watch very carefully. Learn from this lesson, always protect your education systems - they are precious. Make sure that this never happens to you, so that the flame of democracy and freedom keeps burning.
Ditto here in Europe (hell yeah, even France !).
I wonder if someday we'll have to send a hospital ship cruising in international waters near the coast of Virginia and Florida, to provide abortions and medical care to women when abortion is outlawed in the US...
A dutch NGO did this some time ago for Portugal (where abortion -- and even divorce -- is still illegal). The authorities of portugal were not pleased...
In Soviet Russia, our new overlords are belong to all your base.
All three major network anchors (Brokaw, Jennings and Rather) show strong liberal bias.
Translation: if its not Rush, its liberal.
If that quote isn't glib and inaccurate (and Left), then I don't know what is.
What a surprise, you're completely wrong. One big reason why the poor vote for tax breaks that favor the rich is because they want to be rich themselves. And when that happens, they don't want to be taxed.
I don't wish to cite too many examples, but your argument about a Right Wing cabal controlling American media falls flat.
Its not so much that the GOP controls the media as that they are 30 years ahead of dealing with it than the Democrats are. They have an echo chamber to get the mainstream press to start parroting their stories, and they spend hundereds of millions on think tanks so they can field "experts" on any given subject to talk shows or reporters on a moments notice. The GOP had great success with this in 1994, so why the Democratic party leaders left it all up to George Soros in 2004 is beyond me.
Most of your points about the benefits of unionism and nationalized health-care should be tempered with their drawbacks
Okay, so all unions and government subsidized health care are bad because there have been some problems with them? Okay, lets take your logic and extend it. Because company's like Enron break the law and rip off their employees, investors and customers, we should get rid of businesses. All of them.
Bush won. Americans are stupid. QED.
I hope your fucked-up country goes down in flames. I'll be watching with pop corn ready.
wont bow to our neocon overlords.
The reelection of George W. Bush, achieved largely through the mobilization of the evangelical Christian vote on the basis of overtly religious appeals, will have far-reaching and disastrous consequences for American democracy.
Notwithstanding the platitudes and bromides dispensed by Senator John Kerry in his stereotypical concession speech, the results of the 2004 election will not give rise to a rebirth of national unity. The 2004 election represents a further stage in the decay and crisis of the American political system. It is the culmination of a strategy, developed by the Republicans over the past three decades, of cultivating religious fundamentalists to create a mass base for social reaction and militarism. The corporate and financial oligarchy has fashioned its own Frankenstein monster--a force whose political and social agenda is incompatible with the secular constitutional foundations of the United States and the maintenance of traditional democratic norms.
Bush and the Republicans ran a deeply reactionary campaign, employing lies and political smears and playing on the fears, insecurities and confusion of key sections of the electorate. But even with the advantage of incumbency, a friendly media, and the relentless exploitation of the 9/11 tragedy, Bush was barely able to eek out a 51 percent majority of the popular vote.
Whatever the media pundits may say, the election is anything but a popular endorsement of the Bush administration and its policies. Historically, presidents who have won reelection have been able to utilize the benefits of incumbency to obtain decisive victories. This was the case with Roosevelt in the 1930s, Johnson in the 1960s, Reagan in the 1980s, and even Clinton in 1996. Yet Bush gained little more than an absolute majority.
Looking at the electoral map, it is immediately clear that the Republicans, four years after the disputed election of 2000, were not able to shift any sizable population centers to their side. With a few exceptions, those states that went for Gore in 2000--including the most industrialized and urbanized states on the East and West coasts and in the Midwest--went for Kerry in 2004. In other words, the Republicans, despite pulling out all stops in the use of fear-mongering, lies, and other tricks from their grab bag of political reaction, have reached a limit on their ability to extend their base socially and geographically.
The electoral map shows another aspect of the crisis of American democracy--the balkanization of US politics. Neither of the two major parties can be truly said to be national parties.
The election once again revealed a starkly polarized country, and a broad and deeply felt opposition to Bush and the Iraq war. The sharply increased voter turnout, and especially the spike in voting by young people, most of whom cast ballots against Bush and the war, reflected the immense social opposition that exists to the Republican right.
Yet the result of the vote will be to further concentrate political power in the hands of the extreme right, which will control all three branches of government--the executive, the legislative and the judiciary--with the Republicans increasing their majority in the Senate. The stage is set for a series of Supreme Court appointments that will further shift the axis of the Court to the right, and lead to the overturn of Roe v. Wade on abortion rights and other anti-democratic rulings of a far-reaching character.
The election was less a victory for Bush than a colossal, historic defeat for the Democratic Party. In the midst of an unpopular war, massive job losses, declining living standards, growing poverty, a series of corporate corruption scandals alongside huge tax breaks for the rich, the Democrats have proven themselves unable to oust an administration that was installed by undemocratic means and viewed by half the population as illegitimate, and has since been caught in monstrous lies. Kerry and his party were unable, d
Left-wing propaganda machine: ...is a myth. Any more gems of wisdom?
What, NPR isn't enough of a LEFTwing propoganda machine for you?
Um, its not. Go find me a single media source LESS biased than NPR. I wont hold my breath while I wait.
and most of them were only able to say "he's not Bush"
True, and Kerry needs a good bitchslapping for that. The man had no platform whatsoever, just a lot of talking points. He should have come up with a list of 5 reasons to vote for him and 5 reasons not to vote for Bush, and hammered at them.
Did you just say the biggest problem with Democrats is that they aren't Republican?
Let's make them the same party! They should agree on all issues, maybe differ on the extremes. Should we stone people with big rocks or little ones? Should we teach children how to read [the Bible], or just read it to them?
Death to slashdot! those onanist seed-spillers!
News flash. Constitution says: one person, one vote. Your vote isn't more important just 'cuz you were fortunate enough to attend college.
Hi,
I am foreigner, and I think those were the elections (of any country) ever which I followed really attentively. I'm really unhappy about the choice of the american people (maybe with a little help from Diebold, I know). In the end, all the world will suffer with this. But I think americans are the one who will suffer more. Here is what I'm afraid that will have happened 4 years from now:
1- The USA will have been attacked by terrorists again. And DON't believe that any president can really fight terrorism. The only way to do that is to stop the reason for terrorism, which the Bush administration isn't interested in because of their economical interests.
2- The world will have an even worse opinion of your country. I know some of you might think "what do I care?". But... That's just plainly stupid since we live in a global world. Do you think it would be good for the USA if the OPEP started using the Euro instead of the dollar to trade oil?
3- Some of you Bush voters will have been forced to fight in some foreign country and will die. The others will not vote for any Bush look alike again (since he can't be reelected, thank god).
4- You will have lost many of the liberties you have now (not to mention the minorities which Bush seems to want to attack).
I can't really see how the US people can choose a president who invades a country based on the accusation that they have weapons of mass destruction, and then later when this is disproved, makes joke about it (that video and speech, you know it). But, in the end, the US is the country which will suffer the most! Kerry might have been a poor candidate, but I don't think anyone was expecting people to vote for Kerry. What I expected was ANTI-BUSH votes.
Sincerely, I would be delighted if Bush was killed with a bullet in the head during one of his retarded speeches. Maybe he would die as a martyr, but the world would have been ridded from this bastard.
Intelligent americans - EDUCATE YOUR FELLOW COUNTRYMEN.
Mod parent up!!
LOL. Is that an official site or a joke site?
Assertion: Corruption interferes with economic growth.
Absolutely, no argument.
Assertion: Democratic governments show better economic growth, personal income, and education than non-democratic states.
Counter-example: 42 out of 48 African countries have held multiparty elections since 1990. Mostly they swap one set corrupt asset-strippers for a different set.
I wish you were right, I really do, but the facts just don't support it.
-- Nick "Hallo this is Beel Gates, und I pronounce weendows as
lets look at the number of thoses countries you mentioned and the number of citizen they had which renounced thier country of birth for the USA. Theses number are just for 2003, also the USA has a limit severly limiting the number of people immengrating from Europe so that is going to decrease the number who become citizens.
Denmark 197
Sweden 951
Norway 93
Belgium 295
France 1476
Now for the opposite.
Could not find numbers of US citizens that did the same for thoses countries but the total number, and this is worldwide, was less then 600.
I'm commenting specifically on your second point:
1. Al Qaeda didn't attack Australia (trust me, I live here). I presume you're indirectly referring to the Bali bombing (in Indonesia) in which Australians died (among many other nationalities). There is no evidence that it was an Al Qaeda plot, although much like the Iraq-9/11 connection, it's been inferred so many times that it has become "truth" in the eyes of the uneducated. The supposed perpetrators (Jamah Islamiah [sp?]) claimed they were trying to kill Americans, not Australians (we look the same I guess, both nations being predominantly white caucasian in nature).
2. "Congratulations to our law enforcement and intelligence organizations for keeping the homeland safe."
Are you familiar with the protective rock analogy (see Simpsons for good example in the Bear Patrol episode)? It goes something like this:
Lisa - This rock in my hand keeps tigers away.
Homer - But there aren't any tigers!
Lisa - Exactly.
Homer - I wish to buy your rock.
Do you see why your analogy that Homeland Security must have prevented an attack is flawed? Absence of an event does not prove your prevention is working, because there may not have been any event planned in the first place. This is the "logic" used to hoodwink the American populace into believing you are somehow "winning" a war on terror that cannot be won, because terrorism is a technique, not an enemy state that can be defeated.
Al Qaeda (a group essentially made real by the US in the first place) has won hugely by the election of Bush - now they are assured that the US will continue to attack defenceless countries for oil, which will give Al Qaeda much greater recruiting numbers than they ever could have hoped for. They have gone from lucky criminals to a legitimate rebel group in the eyes of large percentages of the Muslim world, precisely as Osama has intended. He's much smarter than people have given him credit for, and even if he was captured or killed tomorrow, will have forged a force to be reckoned with in the coming years. No, Al Qaeda didn't lose by a long shot.
Visceral Psyche Films
I was working in Redmond, just after Bush was first elected - and I remember saying to the ppl I was working with that I was amazed that they'd voted him in. The reply I got was, 'we didn't!' - the ensuing discussion centred on how most americans don't actually know much about the issues - and instead were all too easily swayed by the likes of (apparent) personality, and tv ads etc. In summary - 'the thinking person' didn't vote for him apparently - but, unfortunately, they're in the minority! Thus, Al Gore didn't win (um), and that's a shame I feel - the guy had brains which is a big plus over Bush. Well, it seems most of what happened back then, has happened again now - plus one must add your average redneck's fear of change to the list of reasons. I couldn't believe his initial election, and I am 'shocked and stunned' that he was re-elected - it's confirmed my opinion of the majority (just) of Americans - and I fear for them, as the effects of what they've just done will come back to haunt them for many a year (oh well, perhaps it's time they learned their lesson the hard way)
What's that got to do with it? You could be a politician with your ability to ignore the topic and answer a question no body asked with irrelevant and dubious "facts" like that.
nobody can refute my statement on economies?
Two people offered counter-comments to your incorrect evaluation of the European economy before you posted this comment.
Its true, europeans despise Bush - but maybe more than one european government will (secretly) be more than relieved. Bush's second term will be more beneficial to esspecially France and Germany than many would think. Struggling for support at home due to domestic problems they'd have faced a severe dilemma with a kerry administration. With Kerry returning to multilateral commitment their involvement in Iraq would have been more or less inevitable, while sverely hurting their chances of reelections at home and interfering with european plans of building a cooperational sphere around the mediterenean (btw maybe more of a reason to Libiya's recent chance of policies than fear of US intervention) and the ongoing expansion of the EU (turkey!). Considering further the ever increasing anti-bushism of broad fractions of european societies, the anti-bush ticket may see somemore use before the next US-elections, providing a promising ticket to run on in european elections during the next four years. Many think-tanks already regard the US as the primary source of instability in their direct neighborhood and question a continued commitment to NATO, favoring closer relations to Russia instead. The former Soviet Union has lost its terrifying image in the eyes of many europeans and they might be tempted to regard both (ex-)superpowers as equally democratically impaired; while european interests lost their link with american interests and are increasingly in match with Russia, esspecially regarding a commitment to stability in their respective neighbourhoods and a shared exploitation of siberias vast resources. In 2008, a (hopefully democratic) new administration might pretty well find tradional alliances shattered beyond repair, instead facing a eurasian coalition with potential economic autarchy. Aint gonna happen? Well, three years ago the US had unparalleled support worldwide... its a slippery slope.
Life has become the ideology of its absence - T.W. Adorno
Dear Texas,
We have found your village idiot wandering around
Washington D.C. for the last 4 years. Please come and claim him before he does more damage to our
country.
Sincerely,
The United States of America
Let's just assume for the moment that I agree with everything you just said. So you may be asking "Why are Americans voting for Bush again?" It's rather simple really. It's not your message that's the problem, it's how you deliver it to the public. Case in point, liberals have alway been the most elitiest bunch of aristocrats to grace this great nation of ours. And that being said, people by virtue of human nature despise being looked down apon and mocked.
As a republican (part libertarian) myself, I have some advice for the democrats.
1. Stop the hate, and stop foaming at the mouth.
2. Educate and hold civil debates, do not bash.
3. Treat people with respect, even if you know them to be morrons in your own mind.
4. Most important, get stop it with this elitiesm crap. It's a MAJOR mental turn off to those you wish to engage in a debate.
Life is not for the lazy.
So I really don't understand what you are aiming at.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
At first, the whole world thought that something was wrong with America's leaders and politics in general, so in all honesty i thought the american ppl made a small mistake and they pay a big price and hopefully correct that 4 years later, boy was i wrong, now i am not so sorry for the american ppl anymore, apparently they are choosing for this war president, so i can only end up with uttering this 100% proven fact now, it's official and it's a fact but the majority of the american people are ignorant idiots.
- A sad western european (where things might not be much better, but luckily are not as severe like in the US of A)
it's one hell of a twisted american christian fundamentalism, where all sorts of weapons are legalised, but plants like marijuana is illegal
does that make sense to you ? even if you're a christian (christ quote of the day : live by the sword, die by the sword)
The democrats need to start presenting canidates that people like (Dean), instead of canidates that they think will "win" (Kerry). And don't ask me why the democrats don't think popular canidates with a large grass-roots movement behind them won't win, because I really don't know.
But that's what most analyses came up with after election day - maybe that particular wisdom will not be forgotten three years from now. Having someone, preferably a Southerner, who will appeal to the large demographic that is not comfortable with a supposedly snobby New England liberal like Kerry. Hillary Clinton will have a hard time in 2008 for exactly that reason.
In 2000 the difference in Florida were ~500 votes.
In Ohio the difference was almost 200000.
Gore had all the right to ensure the counting was accurate. Kerry clearly lost this time.
Completely different circumstances demand completely different actions, in both cases the Democrats follow the path that needed to be followed.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Neither the Islamists or Reagan stopped the USSR in AFghanistan.
The corruption, cynisism and croniism prevalent in the USSR made the country implode. They simply were not organized enough and lacked the morale to confront a widespread guerrilla war with some support from the US.
Had the USSR been a cohesive society there would have been no way they would have been kicked out of Afghanistan. They hung to half of Europe for 45 years, but they stablished their stronghold when the people and leadership in the USSR believed all the propaganda that was been generated by the system.
By th early eighties no sane Soviet believed in the Soviet state, and young soldiers in Afghanistan knew the enterprise was doomed to failure and made the best to get some scraps from the table.
The Neocon propaganda that somehom Reagn dismembered the USSR is fantasy: the USSR's contradictions would have killed it without any helping hadn from Reagan and Co.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Germany and Mexico just for starters are Federal Republics that are democracies.
One thing does not exclude the other by any means.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Given the margin of difference Gore was confronting (~500 votes) and the enormous irregularities in the Florida process only somebody politically irresponsible would have not looked into making completely sure, by any means necessary, what was the real result of the election.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
... that
-Killing 100000 Iraquis (and counting) based on lies.
-A horrendous deficit
will not come back to bite you in the ass, then Bush supporters are more delussional than I thought.
You may not have to pay anybody else's healthcare bill, but you will be financing the oulandish adventurism of the scaremongers you have chosen to govern you.
Every single civilian death in Iraq has been financied with your tax money. I hope you are happy with your money to be wasted that way (in the mean time real terrorists keep sending videograms like if they were you old looney uncle).
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Hey, I'll leave that to the citizen's of the red states, I'm sure now that they have their AK's, they can pick off "Niggers" by the dozen they are well versed in it.
... but if you were able to read between the lines, you'd have notice these key points.
... (wait many of you are christians, doesn't sound very christ like to me?), Anyway, back to the idiocracy these people won't have their "taxes" pay for thy neighbor, but at that same time will let an already wealthy man convince him that somehow giving the rich guy even more wealth will somehow make you wealthier. They call this tax breaks for the wealthy (once again read between the lines). You'll support tax breaks for the wealthy but won't support significant tax breaks for yourselves? I don't get it.
By the way you dip $hit, if you had half a brain, which I am surely in doubt of, you'd realize my original post was meant to be satire, extreme, cynical and in many ways absurd
1) Why would anyone base their political decisions on things that absolutely have no bearing on your economic or social viability, such as whether your gay neighbor wants to swing from a chandelier on tuesdays or whether you have the right to go kill that little baby rabbit with a bazooka? Maybe that's what matters to you but in the end don't complain when you get layed-off or outsourced from your factory job and you better not look for the gov't to help you take care of your now malnourished children, because clearly being able to provide and take care of your family is second to whether Billy Bob Gayman is getting humped again this week. No need for "family values" if your family is well, dead. (That's me being cynical if you missed it)
2) Furthermore, only an idiot would complain that he should not have his taxes pay for thy neighbor.
3) In addition, if your basing your decisions on moral values, it seemed to me moral values had become moral hypocracy. The sanctity of life, yet, Texas, Georgia, Florida are notorious for their excess use of the death penalty. Either life is sacred or it isn't. In addition, it seemed had most "evangilicals" been around in the day of Jesus they'd sooner have "cast that first stone" then set a "harlot" free. Judge not?
In short, it sums up to me this way, things have fallen as exactly as they should because only a fool would want to be fooled.
"Individuals are smart people are stupid".
Oh, and I am black, and I'll tell you this one, stupidity is a human trait. It doesn't seem to discriminate, and as I said before I understand why the poor rural south continues to be poor and stupid, they don't even recognize or attempt to recognize a problem, you've been hoodwinked, bamboozled, led astray.
This is absolutely true.
Yah, we might elect fewer gun-control proponents (see #5 & #7 above)
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
What I don't get is the Christian evangelical connection with Bush. I must be reading the abridged version of the Bible.
I don't get this connection with Jesus and war. Or the Jesus connection with discrimination against minority groups. The connection with Jesus and denying your neighbor what they themselves claim as their own. I personally despise abortion but what's this connection with Jesus and plucking slivers from neighbors eyes.
I can only guess they've chosen the deceitful one as their moral leader or my Bible is missing entire sections. I don't see the same connection they do.
It's called splitting the atom. Power to the bomb baby!
Now, what's this fuss about a draft now?
Life is not for the lazy.
You know, one of the biggest arguements against Bush is his actions in Iraq and with the UN, but realistically speaking, would Kerry have done much different? I never see anybody comparing what could have been done differently with any realistic ideas.
Sure people claim going into war (both "on Terrorism" and in Iraq) was wrong, but what could have been done differently?
Yeah, Bush may of alienated a good portion of the UN when they refused aid, but did anyone happen to notice the UN didn't speak up until after the worst was over? I'm not going to claim Bush couldn't have been a bit more diplomatic, but does that excuse the UN from staying quite when it counted, and then opposing the US when it seemed safe to do so?
And with all the acts on the home front, again, would Kerry have done something else? We're not partial to the information the President has, it's very possible that Kerry would have reacted in the same manner dependent upon the intelligence reports he got.
I've been a reader of Slashdot for years and I am disappointed by the arrogance of most of you. Mod me down as flambait if you want, but Slashdot readers don't have the corner on the "intelligence" market. When you vent and spout about how stupid people are for voting for Bush and how smart you are for not voting for him, you look like an arrogant asshole. Nobody likes an arrogant, know-it-all asshole. For example, look at John Kerry. Hehehe.
:-)
Anyway, there is nothing wrong with being a Christian and having certain moral beliefs just like there is nothing wrong with you being an athiest, agnostic, or other religion. Have some tolerance for people, for chrissakes. Closed-minded, know-it-all's are why we are so divided now. Didn't you guys learn anything from Star Trek??
love,
me
Please go and try to find some evidence that Al Quaeda is this highly organized network that your Orwelain reelected masters say it is.
Try to find a single shred of evidence.
LEts stop giving credence to this myth, AL Quaeda is just a political puppet brandished with outstanding success by people that lacking any idease about how to better society are pandering to the fear of the masses.
Whe wolf is comming! The wolf is comming!
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Actually, I meant that the Democratic leadership showed itself to be a bunch of left-leaning nutjobs. Kerry was not a nutjob, but merely moderately leftward-leaning. He was certainly not a "centrist".
The cure for cancer is coming: Reovirus
It would be hard to find a single source which is less biased, but NPR does have a relatively strong liberal/progressive bias with regard to social issues, and an internationalist/UN bias with regard to foreign policy issues.
To highlight a specific issue, examine the variety of coverage of Israel:
From the truly antisemitic (The Guardian, UK)
to the strong anti-Israel bias (BBC)
to the somewhat anti-Israel bias (Washington Post, New York Times, NPR)
to the somewhat pro-Israel bias (Wall Street Journal)
to the strong pro-Israel bias (Washington Times, Jerusalem Post)
If you look at coverage of any specific event, you'll see a wide range of perspectives on the same "facts" with some groups being more willing to challenge the "facts" than others.
Also, Morning Edition and ATC try to be fair, and do better than most at it, but many of the syndicated shows (Diane Rehm, the World, etc) are strikingly biased.
Need Geek Rock? Try The Franchise!
I have a question for you: how many nations already have gay marriage so that the US is considered a cultural backwater not to have it? Does France have it? Denmark? Australia? ANYONE?
For the record, I believe Denmark was the first country in the world to allow same sex marriages. That was back in 1989.
In fact, most countries in Scandinavia allow this.
zWhat would an EWOULDBLOCK block, if an EWOULDBLOCK could block would? -- me
Excuse the subject typo ... I meant sex, of course. :-)
zWhat would an EWOULDBLOCK block, if an EWOULDBLOCK could block would? -- me
Impossing your way of life and values into others.
That is why you and your lot are so dangerous, I hope more people, including decent religious ones, come to realize this on time.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
The question is one of whether you consider the entities of States to be important or not. Most people I talk to who believe the EC should be abolished in favor of a direct popular vote seem to believe that there are no real distinctions between the states, that the country really should be treated as a uniform whole.
That's not quite what the founding fathers had in mind. Originally, the country was a loose conglomeration of mostly independent States, where the borders between them really did make a difference. However, in consideration of population differences, all States cannot be treated equal in terms of representation, which is why we have the EC. It's a nice compromise between the ideas of equal States and proportional population representation. Basically the same compromise that forms the balance of the House and the Senate.
I'm certainly not arguing that the EC is the best possible system. I'm arguing that it's better than a direct popular vote. I provide that URL as a mathematical basis for further debate and discussion.
1. I don't know, but someone else who replied to you does.
2. I don't know.
3. None that I know of.
I have only one question for you:
Could you supply a quote from anything that I posted where I said I am a democrat?
As you could tell, he's more than a bit mentally unbalanced. He's taken to stalking me all over Slashdot. At first I thought that he was trolling, but this has been going on for about two weeks and now I'm convinced that he's really nuts. He makes untrue statements and, when confronted with his error, goes into maniacal, paranoid, psychotic ranting. This is a good example. He said that drugs in Canada were subsidized. I said that the price was negotiated without subsidies. I provided quotes and links to back up my assertion. And he went nuts.
And the really absurd thing about this is that I own two rifles, two handguns, and a shotgun and he's accusing me of being anti-gun.
I disagree, I feel better when I hear why 51% of voting Americans chose Bush. It helps me to shed my sympathy for the people of America when I can hear their ignorance.
Standard American reasons for voting for Bush:
- Abortion
- Tax
- Defense
Reap what you sow, enjoy the next 4 years(the people would rather have a man who kills over 15000 Iraqi civilians than allow women the right to choose)
(the common man - which the majority of voters are - supports a man who introduces tax cuts for the rich and is in favour of outsourcing Amreican jobs)
('Bush makes me feel safe' - Ah yes, a leader who starts illegal wars and breaks the Geneva convention must make you feel real safe)
No you don't. There are plenty of CBS affiliates.
Keep an eye on MN in two years, it will probably continue in the same direction it has taken this election, completely opposite of the the Republican move of the rest of the country.
Just because you can, does not mean you should.
Well just remember 140 years ago, the kickball players were playing 4-square and vice verse. The kickball players(140 years ago) decided to go off and play kickball by themselves and the 4-square(140 years ago)players forced them to come back and play 4-square, soon after, they discovered that kickball was better and the former kickball players decided to like 4-square out of spite.
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
Nobody is going to waste their time with unintelligent, uncivil arguments. Try growing up monkey boy and you'll find people will tell you how you are wrong instead of staring at you like some circus freak while you think you are correct because they won't enage your "arguments". The countries we "swarm" from and to are terrorist and dictatorship shitholes, the fact that you defend them speaks loads about your credibility asswipe. Second, we are not here for the rest of the world to like, we are here to do the right thing, which the rest of the world is too cowardly to do. Next, electing Bush was the best thing we could do, it sends a message to all the evil doers in the world that we aren't scared of them and we will be coming after them. Your retarded ass stereotyping of Bush supporters as "hillbillies" is just funny. You don't even fucking know me and you stereotyped me, that says you are one retarded brain dead son of a bitch to anyone with a sense, nice going asshat, but it's not like we didn't already know, dimwit. And I'm sure you do want someone to bomb us, because you're a scared little bitch who'd suck a terrorist's dick so naturally you cheer the mother fuckers on because without us no one would point out your cowardness and weakness. Lastly, we can't stay away because the welfare of the planet affects everybody, we can't just let countries go to shit and think it won't affect us, that is caveman thinking, which is what I am starting to think you are. Have a nice day, fuckface.
If I told you that was last year, would you know what I meant?
Aperantly famaly values were a determining factor
Gay people have no rights
You cant get an abortion but your on your own if you get pregnant
why do you expect us to pay for your child care, get off welfare and work at a job that wont be enough for your child care
put all the people you dont like in jail
health care is not a famaly value
the people that got bush into office are roughly the same people who wanted america to keep slavery.
America is a contry filled with ingorant warmongering bigots who believe in gay bashing, and neglecting its own population this is a sad country and it is a matter of time before the world gets together and fuch us like the bich we are. I wouldnt be surprized if the middle east alies together and kicks us off of iraq and settles the isrealy problem itself. we are so screwed.
Made one typo, that "with a sense" should be "with sense". Figured you might have a difficult time figuring that out since you're too busy gargling al qaida cum to think.
If I told you that was last year, would you know what I meant?
Jimmy Carter was the first national figure to say "nukular" instead of the correct "nuclear".
Since we've been told for almost 30 years that Jimmy Carter is the smartest President ever, it must have something to do with being from the South (Georgia for Carter and Texas for Bush) rather than your moronic contention that Bush is just stupid.
Thank you for providing me the opportunity to correct one small bit of partisan idiocy on your part.
What would be better than having all those stupid little people voting and making decision you don't like?
Should we make Hillary the Queen for life and then we can have Chelsea because "she's so smart!!!" and then whatever spawn she leaves behind and then we'll all live in one big happy village and candy will fall from rainbows in the sky and children shall dance on the banks of chocolate rivers!
you're absolutely correct, that's about as fair as that process gets: over long periods opinion may shift. still, though, doesn't that leave something to be desired? shouldn't the kindergarten be playing both games in different proportions?
I voted for him because the alternative was either the Manchurian Candidate or a Jimmy Carter clone.
I'm not sure exactly which Kerry is and I'm not entirely certain the MC is worse than JC, but Bush is a far cry better than both.
by left-wing nutjobs
This is the problem. The Democratic party is too far right for most Democrats in the population, yet the Republican population thinks that the party is much farther left than its base. Most Democracts I know think only "right wing nutjobs" would have voted for Bush, and that any moderate conservatives should have voted for Kerry, who they saw as too conservative for Democrats and a poor choice for that reason.
In truth, the Democratic party is too conservative for its base. Most of the nearly fifty percent of the people in this country who reluctantly voted for Kerry are the "left wing nutjobs" of which you speak. They want national health, strong unions and labor rights, guaranteed social welfare (i.e. food, housing, entertainment enough to have a "good" life), gay/lesbian/transgendered rights, legalization and regulation of drugs, an end to the war in Iraq and a restoration of Palestine, etc. The right loves to call them the "fringe" but they really aren't; they are nearly half of the country--the liberal half. If the Democratic party goes any farther to the right, these people are going to gravitate toward other farther left parties that more closely represent their views, and, in a few more elections, we'll have a 50/50 split again between whatever the new left is called and the conservative right.
This split in the votes really does represent a clear split in ideology in this country. Somehow the right seems to think that the Democratic party is made of ten Marxist-Leninists and fifty million sheep. Not so. There really are nearly as many people who are ardently left as there are people who are ardently right in this country (even though both groups somehow seem to want to defensively claim that they are ardently "center"). What we have is essentially a secular humanist versus evangelical christian conflict, and the two really are completely incompatible, not just ideologically, but also behaviorally, judicially, and financially.
If the US were two nations, one made of the liberal coastal areas, and one made of the conservative central and southern areas, we wouldn't even have diplomatic relations. The conflict would be as hot as the conflict between Israel and Iran is, and the relationship just as cold.
Any Democratic candidate that is acceptable to even the leftmost 25% of the Republican base is going to be too much of a "right wing nutjob" for the leftmost 75% of the Democratic base. Similarly, any Republican candidate that is acceptable to even the rightmost 25% of the Democratic base is going to be too much of a "left wing nutjob" for the rightmost 75% of the Republican base.
Neither view is insane; it has to do with the differing lifestyles of the areas. In Urban areas, the average citizen can not be self-sufficient or live "off the land" since population density is very high and the nearest "land" may be hundreds of miles away. There is little in the way of entertainment or behavior of any kind (i.e. even going to the park in some areas) that does not require capital (i.e. dollars) to experience. There is no natural way to obtain food or water or to dispose of waste; these things must be bussed in and out, also requiring infrastructure and dollars. The greatest danger is from crime--the fact that if you walk out your door at 2.00 in the morning, you have a good chance of getting shot, knifed, mugged by someone who isn't well off enough to be supporting themselves. This, danger, too, can only be mitigated by government intervention: cops to look out for and arrest criminals and welfare to provide such criminals with enough help that they don't need to be on the streets any longer. You can't defend yourself because a) most of the criminals are better armed than you are [hence the desire for gun control] and b) population density is so high that any gunshot in self defense, in any direction, will likely go through ten or twelve apartments at least--potentially killing someone else's mother, fath
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
This is a essay that Dan Hoak, a physicist currently in Irvine, wrote this morning. I thought it sums up the feelings many people have about the politics of the 2004 election, and have included it here:
"America, Have You No Decency?
It has become clear after reading articles and listening to NPR that the factor this year was the Christian right. I would like to claim that this occurred to me even before the CNN analysts started pointing it out. Gore up by 500,000 votes in 2000, Kerry down by three and a half million in 2004. Florida not even close. Where does this silent majority come from? Well, in between, Karl Rove built a database of four million frequent churchgoers, the Bush administration pandered to voters who would follow him even if they disagreed with the war in Iraq, and conservative groups put gay-marriage questions on the ballot in eleven states. Coupled with a strong effort to remind these people to vote, and bingo bango, the biggest concern of voters wasn't Iraq, it wasn't the economy, it wasn't education. It was moral issues. And on and on; you can read about it in Newsweek.
The gay marriage proposals went down by large margins in all eleven states, including Ohio. Some of these states were battlegrounds and shouldn't have been, like Oregon and Michigan. Others weren't battlegrounds and should have been, like Arkansas.
Survey says: Americans don't like gays, or at least not enough to treat them with dignity. To a very liberal American like myself, who just watched Tony Kushner's play "Angels in America" and thoroughly enjoyed it, this is disheartening. But it is not the last word: the gay rights movement is still in its infancy, and has gained much ground in the few decades it has been active. Forty years ago, would any politician have been openly gay? Any movie star? Now they can marry in Massachusetts and vote for Barney Frank. The world has failed to end. No fire and brimstone have rained down from heaven. The efforts for gay rights will move forward.
Far more troubling is the continued ability of the religious right to act as kingmaker in American politics. This has been going on, dramatically, since Reagan, and it doesn't look like it will stop soon. Karl Rove has clearly demonstrated to Republicans that if they want to win, they must choose candidates that speak to frequent churchgoers. It's been shown that candidates like Bob Dole and John McCain don't energize this base, and lose. Moderate candidates like Giuliani will likely have an uphill battle if they want to run for national office. The effect of this demographic on policy is clear and long-lasting. The Supreme Court already leans more conservative than the general population, and will likely lean more after the next four years. Legislative attempts to erode abortion rights are ongoing, as are attempts to teach creationism in schools. The conservative movement behind these two issues in particular is tenacious and in for the duration. Their strategy is to pass many small laws in lots of states, often using confusing and misleading language. They seek to win the battle in steps, over time.
When Americans talk of religious fundamentalism, they are referring to Islamic extremists. But when Europeans talk of religious fundamentalism, they're referring to both Islamic extremists and the Christian evangelical movement in the United States. This kind of religious upsurge in this country is not unprecedented. Between 1800 and 1845, the United States experienced the Second Great Awakening, during which time the number of preachers per capita tripled. Alexis de Tocqueville found in the 1830s that "There is no country in the world where the Christian religion retains greater influence over the souls of men than in America." Mormonism, Universalism, Unitarianism, and the African- American church all emerged during that period. Policy was affected, especially views on race and ethnicity; many of the prominent American naturalists of the time firmly believed that
I'm just pointing out that the last time playing both games at the same, or near the same time was proposed a war was fought over who got to pick the next game.
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
This is a crapflooding post, courtesy of Overflowing Toilets Inc.
An article overflowing to the brim of pure 100% crap.
Taco sucks root. And cowboyneel roots him senseless.
This crappy post straight from Michael's anus. After Hemos fucks him, of course.
You spitting liberals still don't get it.
This country has just overwhealmingly decided that convervative values are important and we don't want your vomitoriums, your drive-thought abortions, your apeasment and measured tolerance of terrorism.
You still don't understand that leadership is rooted in the simplest understanding of right and wrong and not through the use of meaningless verbal diareah at UN summits or through some fucking world popularity contest and people have a basic sense of this simple fact.
All you can come up with his childish and venomous consipracy theories on Haliburton and Enron and try to attack the character of decent people.
This is all you foaming liberals have and you can't understand that you are bankrupt in the arean of idears, you have a vaccum of ideology and you are ready to slurp the vomit comming of hollywood and look towards it a the answer to world peace.
You answer to suffering and poverty and lack of jobs is sympathy and the imposistion of guilty on those who are successfull, yet you won't lift a finger to do anything yourself and point to others who succeed as the cause to your own hypocritical ideology.
Fuck off and move to Canada.
kerry doesn't support writing discrimination into the constitution. i think that's a big enough reason to write out all of yours.
kerry doesn't treat the south with disdain as his running mate is from north carolina.
kerry supports increased education spending and reduced military spending.
please me, have no regrets.
The fact that you put The Telegraph as left wing propaganda (amongst others in your list) shows just how completely to the right is politics in the US and how uninformed and parochial many of you are, in spite of managing to quote some foreign publications.
I would laugh if it was not so tragic for the US and the rest of the world the de facto baning of any social polieies in the US.
The XXth century brought rights for the working classes, the XXIst will bring the dismantling of those rights by means of relnetless propaganda an indoctrination.
Humble people in the US (and if we are not careful, in many other places) will be exploited and may even be thankful for the oportunity these gives them...
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Morality and diplomacy are rarely bedfellows. Because we _can_ affect governments does not mean we _should_. Our intervention in Iraq was driven by certain special factors that made the outcome in Iraq vitally important for the US' future.
In regards Iraq, this post is pretty much my viewpoint on the operation.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
... to judge if a homosexual way of life is better or worst thant a Christian way of life?
In a free country, children would be presented both wolrd views and let them make up their minds (under the wise guidance of their family and community).
In the US gay bashing is a national sport and the "Christians" don't have the moral stature to live and let live.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
And rabidly so, in spite of being mostly Catholic.
Why? Because the religious nuts had always been against the aspirations of the populace and ther was a need to get them out of politics. It was a matter of national survival.
That is a lesson the US may do well to learn from their Southern neighbours.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
It is an invention of the Neocons to keep you fearing for your safety.
Educate yourself, the Neocons are of an Orwellian quality that knows no limits.
No, I am not a conspiracy theory nut, the Neocons have been inventing enemies for the last 30 years and the puplace becomes ever more credulous with the latest incarnation of the enemy to be defeated.
Google for "The Power of Nightmares" and learn.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Show us where a Democratic politician calls electors like that...
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Put yourself in the shoes of someone whi believes human life begins at conception. I am not asking you to agree with it, just pretend you do. Ok you there? Now knowing that more that one hundred thousand children are killed every year and John Kerry would not even ban Partial Birth Abortion (something many on the left voted to ban) how can you vote for Kerry?
Tax: (the common man - which the majority of voters are - supports a man who introduces tax cuts for the rich and is in favour of outsourcing Amreican jobs)
Its plain fact that the lower brackets (those making less money) got a larger break than the rich (the high bracket got 3 cents on the dollar and the lowest got 5 cents on the dollar. If you want to ignore this because youre lazy, biased, or stupid be my guest..
Defense: ('Bush makes me feel safe' - Ah yes, a leader who starts illegal wars and breaks the Geneva convention must make you feel real safe)
A war that Kerry authorized and touted when trying to beat Dean and condemed when trying to win ex Dean Supporters. Both Kerry and Bush are equally responsable for the idiotic way in which Iraq went down.
Me I voted 3rd party, I had no dog in this race but its great seing so many anrgy Liberals..
Let me try to rephrase this.
What the majority of people believe != the smartest idea.
The majority of people on earth follow Buddhism, instead of Christianity. If you held a world-wide "election" tomorrow, Christ would lose. So that, by this flawed reasoning, would make Christianity "wrong."
There are more Chinese Communists than Americans. The Americans must be doing something wrong, yes?
I am already anticipating what you will say in response to this, and because I am sportsmanlike I will warn you in advance it is a trap for you.
Take the legend of Jesus, if you like. The majority of people in the city were happy to throw a stigmata party.
Want to Know How to Cheat the GPL? Read On!
... I will give your cool down message to the families of the estimated 100000 (or 15000 if you refuse to extrapolate) Iraqi civilians killed during the invasion of your Orwellian reelected overlords.
Shame on the US, to reelect a liar, it is beyond belief.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Actually we do, I dont think the world realizes how little we care. When I walked in to vote the last thing on my mind was "what will the aussie's say?", I dont have a wweud (what woould the Europian Union do) Stickers on my car..
Alot of people were reserving their hatred for the American people because they believed no one in their right mind would vote Dubya backin
Well that was nice of them, I mean there is nothing like the smug feeling of giving somebody a pass because they are ignorent..
Well you proved them wrong, though i don't agree with this mentality. I can see alot of people worldwide now hating you the people....
Well I care i drop of urine more about their opinion of me than I do our President..
Kos http://www.dailykos.com/ points out an article in Harpers http://harpers.org/ElectingToLeave.html on the logistics of becoming a non-US citizen. Not as easy as you might think; although they leave out the most pleasant method of gaining citizenship elsewhere - alien matrimony ;-)
"Not all who wander are lost." (J.R.R. Tolkien)
.... will piss and moan later, when they have to pay for the economic and military adventurism of their Orwellian reelected overlords.
The bill will come, we will talk again then.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
let's see how you laugh when ralph reed and the wildman of tupelo have rewritten the fucking constitution.
.... is a minuscule group of disjointed individuals that manage to strike ferociosuly very rarely because it is impossible to stop 5 or 6 determined individuals wanting to inflict harm.
If it is worth reelecting a confirmed liar and mass murderer in order to send a clear message to a group of bandits, then your democracy is not worth the paper your Constitution is written in.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
... when the action of the man had spoken already?
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Bush is going to win Ohio, it's a near mathmatical certainty based on the COUNTED BALLOTS.
How are you qualified to say that about mathematics? Because mathematics would tell you that since the provisional and absentee ballots are different demographics that you can't use the normal ballot tally to predict their result.
Your judgement might tell you that it's probable that Bush would win, but don't try and pass your judgement off as mathematics.
Additionally, Bush has a SIGNIFICANT edge in the popular vote.
The popular vote is meaningless in the voting system used by the USA.
You are stalking me with your words, they ring in my brain after I read them I get no sleep and I'm in a psychotic ferver over this!
You're seeking out my postings in threads in which you are not even involved. If my postings bother you that much, then just stop reading them. It's that simple. I'm not the President. I'm not the Attorney General. I'm not a Justice on the Supreme Court. I'm not a Congressman. I'm just a private citizen who happens to hold beliefs which differ from yours. That we disagree should have very little bearing on your life.
http://69.242.135.143/misc/blog/bush.html
Thats all I have to say for now.
The Property of One's : "The Oneitude is directly proportional to the Colditude of the one." - S.B.
In Germany I know some people, they hate America. I hate such people. Did they forget, that we have to be thankfull against Americans? They set us free from the Nazis, they gave us freedom and democracy. We live in wealth, because Americans!
;-)
:-)
I wonder, that Americans speaks well to us unthankful Germans. The Iraqi will be much moire thankfull to Americans than we are. No wonder, when Military Stations in Germany will be closed, because American soldiers prefer to be based in Iraq.
It is time, that we say "Thank you!" to America. It is time, that Eurpeans be thankfull to America and pay back, what they gave to us: democracy and freedom.
Well, when I read that the grandfather of the president, Prescott Bush, made business with Nazis like the actual president with Bin Ladens, I am glad that the Austrien did not choose Germany again. Two Austrians as "cancelor of Germany" is enough. So wait until Bush changed the law and than: 2008 -- vote for Schwarzenegger!
I say: Europeans, do everything to gave America the freedom back, which was killed by his president! It is much more easier than Afghanistan because we do not must care about the supply. Mc Donalds is everywhere
Please: Have a look to http://www.make-my-son-happy.us.tp/, thank you
Phil
one reason to vote for the other candidate is to remove someone for office. change is a good thing. i am not obligated to vote for someone because i like him.
how about this one...
kerry said he will not amend the constitution with something that removes rights from the states, keeping the government less centralized.
that doesn't reference bush, sure it's the opposite of what bush would do, but i don't think the constitution should be touched. and yes, discrimination is the gay marriage thing. why should only heterosexuals get the benefits of being married?
please me, have no regrets.
Sorry, Denmark allows civil unions, but has not legalized same-sex marriage.
Alright then. "Union", "marriage" ... these are but relative terms. What really matters are the rights that you benefit from.
Actually, in Denmark it's termed a "registered partnership", and it has the same legal consequences as what we term "marriage", except with regards to adoption of children - the registered partners can't (yet) adopt a child together, however one can adopt the other's child. Granted, the last part about adoption was a later amendment, and not part of the original law as of 1989.
The point of my questions is that people are demanding the US be not only in the vanguard of gay marriage, but are demanding it be so "enlightened" as to make such nations as Denmark, France, Sweden and Germany seem like backward troglodytes.
That far, huh?
Is it really that urgent of an issue if no one else in the world is clamoring for it? Perhaps we have time to sensibly discuss the issue and government's role in marriage before we rush unthinkingly towards bad solutions.
Isn't it just that most of the debate in the US has been too preoccupied with the religous aspects of this (ditto for abortion), instead of the real practical benefits which transcend both religious and legal aspects? Is it really that big of a deal? After all, we're only talking about granting legal rights to couples who live together - they just happen to be of the same sex.
Numerous posts in this discussion have already argued how some votes in this election have been decided based solely on religious beliefs. I'm wondering, what if you just called it something else than "marriage"? Would people still be focusing on labeling these couples as sinners? Would you then be able to focus on actually finding solutions, and move on to more pressing issues?
zWhat would an EWOULDBLOCK block, if an EWOULDBLOCK could block would? -- me
USia is the sole source of evil in the world. Everyone, except for fat-assed USians, knows that. The Middle East was at peace before USia buggered it all to hell.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I have just seen a comparison of the average IQ by state, average household income and 2004 electoral. If this is correct, some very intersting conclusions are to be drawn.
You can kiss our collective ass.
You can stop speaking for me.
Light is filtering down from above. Would you like to use DIVE?
Take a look at the exit polls. When the results were broken down into categories by demographics, in most cases it was a 60/40 split or closer than that. There are some demographic groups that showed a much stronger correlation, but these groups are too narrow for the absentee ballots to be entirely made up of these people. Plus, at least a decent chunk of the absentee ballots are from people in the military which can be expected to be made up of more Republicans than Democrats.
While technically the popular vote is irrelevent, many people do take it as a guideline toward who deserves to win. If Kerry challenged the results he would greatly anger the majority of Bush voters in addition to angering some of his own voters. If he challenged the results he would face massive public resistance and might even destroy his career.
My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
Thanks for the swift reply. I know it must be hard to find the time when you're busy torturing Iraqis and imprisoning people in Guantanamo.
It isn't usas job to save the world. It's a joined effort of the UN.
Electing Bush isn't the best thing you could do. It's like pouring petrol on fire.
Mod up please, this is great
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I'm disgusted by the fact that that the USA tolerated Marcos, Duvalier, Sukarno, Noriega, Palahvi, Pinochet, Peron, and many, many other dictators just because they were anti-communist. If we had pursued a consistent moral agenda throughout the cold war, I believe that the Soviets would have collapsed much sooner than they did.
Excuse me? "TOLERATED" you say? What happened to 'BROUGHT INTO POWER'?
With great power comes great electricity bills.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I'm not hiding.
I'm not slapping stickers on my car, true, but I'm not hiding.
BTW...50% is a misunderestimation...
Writers imply. Readers infer.
Naw, man.
Letting "them" kill "us" in exchange for a seat at the table while slowly cutting off their money and support...I suppose that works when the "us" they kill can be written off.
Fuck that.
What if those who died mattered to you instead of being abstractions?
Imagine I've got a knife to your throat.
Now, instead of opening your neck I kick your mother to death.
Awhile later I kick your father to death.
Then your brother.
Then your sister.
Then your neighbor.
And so on.
Then, eventually, you convince me to put down the knife.
I've still got a pipe in my other hand, but that nasty knife is forgotten.
Did I forget that I've got two hands or did you?
Writers imply. Readers infer.
haha. Well, the only reason America got involved in Europe is to stop Russians from taking over. Germans were defeated at Stalingrad, not Normandy.
Sorry I didnt realize that killing INNOCENT CIVILLIANS from another country in an ILLEGAL war was ok, are you saying this is ok? I am assuming you think it is (no doubt in 'revenge' for 9/11 - which was funded, organised and executed primarily by Saudis)
Really? I thought it was Bush, Wolfowitz et al? With this statement you are just highlighting your lack of understanding of what I assume is your OWN country (thankfully it is not mine)
Ah, misuse of the word liberal, what is a liberal? Are the Democrats liberal? I dont think so
Take it easy,
C
So I've gotten some flack for my last post and I just have to clarify. I like to write. I like to rant and make shit up. I like fiction. Honestly, I don't give a rats ass that Bush won the election. And my vote didn't matter anyway (I voted for Nader--knowing that my states electoral votes would go to Kerry regardless).
But I enjoy watching riot videos. I enjoy protests--not to be in them but to see passion. So much of what I see is apathy. When shit happens and people get pissed, life is more interesting. Life has meaning only when we know we are dying. Everyone loves a good fight.
I mean, for crying out loud, read some more of my journal. I hope our political struggles get more chaotic. I hope we have adversity in our future. There's nothing I fear more than growing stagnant. Nobody seems to care unless they have an enemy. So, an enemy is necessary. Hell, I might have voted for Bush instead just to help speed up the process. What I'm saying is that I don't claim to be a good guy. I don't think I have all the right answers that are going to fix our world. What I do think is that our world needs to be pushed in order to survive; evolution didn't bring us where we are today from us sitting on our asses. I want the things I said to happen because, in history, those types of things have created passion. These things wake us up and give us meaning. Or at least they give me something to think about.
nohup rm -rf /
In Canada, we have the results on TV before the elections are over (when the losing side can't fill the gap anymore).
That's nothing! In Soviet Russia, we have the results on TV before the election even begins!
1. Stop the hate, and stop foaming at the mouth.
Kenneth Starr, Swift Boat Vets for Truth..... no the Republicans are never guilty of any hate or foaming at the mouth.
Guilt by tenous association.
Blimey mate, that is fucking conclusive.
Hussein knew and met Rumsfeld, I supposse that cast a shadow in the Neocons as possible associate of Hussein and Al Quaeda.
Hussein was completely against the religious nuts (for selfish reasons certainly, but to even suggest a connection knowing the history of Hussein secularization of Iraq is absolutely ludicrous).
Get "The Power of Nightmares" and check how the noecons will fabricate evidence as and when they need it to convince an unsuspecting public of thatever they need.
Crimental, doublespeak, 1984 is here.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
just a point of view from Spain:
yes, you're right to say you dont deserve be attacked by anybody. But not you, americans, but everybody in this shit world, or not because kerry didnt won. I think this because who will pay with their lifes for this are the same kind of people who died in NY, to say, innocent people.
But, please please please note how anger you (americans in general) are causing and had caused to many many countries along the world.
Apart from this, the main terrorist targets seem to be in democratic areas (most populated).
I think of me like a very moderate person, but, mate, you really are hard working to get attacked by a lot of people. The only thing I really expect from the terrorists is the change the targets to republican areas. And they are not doing it for oil, of faking WMD, but for their own right to life in peace in their countries.
And yes, it seems you are pretty sheep. The world from the point of view of your country and from any other country in the world seems to be different ones. The average american believes bush and his f***ing dad's friends.
I am not saying that the other guys are nice people, we all well know bin laden, we all know well know hussein (not a reason to invade, btw, or you will also need to invade cuba, china...)
Dont know, paranode. It seems we have a VERY different point of view of the world (USA - rest), and how you rule it. Few days ago I read in a spanish media an enterview to the republican party representative in Spain. From our point of view, she looked martian. I wouldnt know where to start to explain why she was wrong, you cannot take the world like your back yard.
Too many things to explain...
And what have I said to give you that impression? I do think that a nation violating the terms of a cease fire and plotting to kill an ex-president. Now Bush did the war all wrong and so did Kerry (voted for the war).
BTW nice try to ditch the question, if you thought that life started at conception could you understand why people make it such an issue.
Really? I thought it was Bush, Wolfowitz et al? With this statement you are just highlighting your lack of understanding of what I assume is your OWN country (thankfully it is not mine)
Really, you think you understand the US Government more than me... Answer this: who has to declare war? Ill give you a hint John Kerry is a member and George Bush is not. After you figure out that one go look up how John Kerry voted.
At least try to refute his points.
Or perhaps you can't.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Your way to speak reminds me East Germans before the fall of the Berlin Wall.
Always the fault of their woes was elsewhere.
So many of you just don't get it and never will. Untill it is too late that is.
As horrendous as 9/11 was, it was an isolated incident due mostly that the complete disregard for security by US aviation authorities. I flew several times in te US pre 9/11 and to say that people were cavalier about security is an understatement.
In other places (for bunny's sake, like Mexico that had almost no problems with terrorism) security was taken seriously.
So keep your lip service to yourself and your incompetent politicians, they were the ones doing nothing to keep you safe, no wonder the terrorists chose local flights, not international ones, to inflict harm.
Talk about shooting the messenger. Your legitimate concerns have been turned into a travesty not by people in other countries, but by your re-elected Orwellian overlords. It has been probed beyond any doubt that this bunch lied to you. It has been probed that they had an agenda years before 9/11 (Google for "American Century" and learn). Oh no, but is the outside world that did not come yo your aid (chekc the coallition assembled to rid AFghanistan of terrorist training camps, you will see that French and Germans, amongst many others, extended the hand of friendship).
But friendship is not unconditional. If a friend questions my friendship because I don't want to jump into the abyss with him, I am not to blame.
You are blinded, and willingly jumping. The rest of the world is staring in amazement, pain and disbelief.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
America has spoken and now we've heard from the idiot.
You have a left wing propaganda wing - It's called the Main Street Media(especially CBS). They couldn't blow enough sunshine up our butts about how great sKerry/Edwards was and how EVIL W was.
Now we get to hear all the MSM eating their young by saying how much of a lightweight Edwards was. Gee, the old media couldn't tell us this before hand. The new media already clued most people in on this fact already.
Prof. Farnsworth - "Oh a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!"
I also understand that these 'conservative christians' are total hypocrites. The kind of faux-religious politics that you have in the US absolutely disgusts me. Politicians exploit the Bible when it suits them and ignore it when it doesn't.
What about the death penalty? As far as I can recall Jesus wasn't really a fan ("Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"). I could go on and on...
GWB used abortion as an issue because most anti-abortionists are such zealots that they vote based on that single issue. I bet he is laughing all the way to the white house at how easy these 'christians' are to dupe.
BTW I dont think Jesus would be up for calling the french people monkeys like you do.
God Bless
Does anyone else find it curious that the party of "free thinkers" is making comments like the ones in this thread?
Based on all the comments here, I would conclude that Kerry supporters think anyone who voted for Bush is a knuckle-dragging, beer chugging, blue collar moron with an IQ of 50.
Is it possible that this is the exact attitude that drove people away from voting Democrat this time around? Maybe it's worth looking in the mirror and pondering whether the party that claims to be "open minded" can rip average working people like this and still expect their support. When these are the true feelings that feed the Democratic party, even a dumb "working Joe" can see through it.
Seems the party of "diversity" only welcomes it when it is in line with their desires.
Well... yes. I also think I'm a little more worldly. In case you hadn't noticed the Bush administration tricked America (and most of the rest of the world) into believing that Saddam had WMD.
Than answer the question, who has the authority to declare war in the United states?
When they couldnt find any, they lied to the people (Kerry included) - who believed them. It was from THAT time that Kerry 'did' the war.
Kerrys vote was a cowardly one (and BTW Kerry and Clinton *ALSO* believed that Iraq had WMD's and used that as an excuse to bomb Iraq in 1998 w/out massive protest from the left). If Kerry had voted for a declariation of war and then played the 'I was lied to excuse' I might give him some slack. Kerry and Bush ignored their constitutional duties and neither deserves an office.
What about the death penalty? As far as I can recall Jesus wasn't really a fan ("Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"). I could go on and on...
I am against the death penalty, and I could just as easily point out that Liberal humanist are ok with killing unborn babies but dont want to kill a spotted owl or a mass murderer.
GWB used abortion as an issue because most anti-abortionists are such zealots that they vote based on that single issue.
See you dont understand their point of view. If John Kerry was 100% with you on every issue except he wanted to give mothers the right to kill a four year old kid, or re-institute slavery would you vote for him? does that make you a single issue voter?
I am not continuing this flame war any longer.
> testimonies of those attrocities and said to the world "we won't stand for this."
I agree - many, many more people would have supported a war in that case.
The problem is that was not the stated cause for the war, leaving Bush looking deceptive and war-mongering. We shouldn't have believed the WMD story; why should we believe the current story?
It's hard to use lies to justify a war for moral principles.
Tell that to the Hilton chain of hotels.
> 3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
Tell that to poor, starving Paris Hilton.
> 5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a
> national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.
Tell that to CitiBank, Citizen's Bank, Wells Fargo, BankOne, Sovereign Bank, ...
> 6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state.
Tell that to Fox News, ABC, and Rush Limbaugh, or to USAirways, Ford, or Greyhound.
> 8. Equal obligation of all to work.
Tell that to Paris Hilton.
> 9. ...gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by
> a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
Tell that to vanishing small towns in Kansas.
> Here's Marx's 10 points from his Communist Manifesto:...
> We are so there.
You are so deluded.
There is a fundamental difference between the abortion and death penalty issues. The state does not perform abortions, but it does (at least some do) perform executions. Whether a person CHOOSES to have an abortion or not is THEIR OWN CHOICE. If you dont believe in abortion, fine, dont get one! But dont expect everyone else to believe that life begins when you believe it does.
You are consistently ignoring my points and concentrating on your own little subset, perhaps because Fox (or your religious leader) has only given you a certain number of prepackaged answers?
Your continued misuse of the word 'liberal' amuses me. Your continued abuse of the French does not. I dont abuse your Church because I find its ideas to be distasteful and primitive, why do you abuse the French? If if if, if only my auntie had boll**ks she'd be my uncle
God Bless
If your country is the hero of the world why don't you put armed forces in Dafur? I'll tell you why. Because there's no profit. That's what I mean regarding usa being the locust of the world. Yet again I say; FUCK usa!
No, Bush requested the "authorizeation to use force" not a declaration of war. John Kerry and the democrats could have blocked it like they did judges. But being afraid for their political lives they sold out.
Do you deny this? Do you still think Bush and Kerry were equally responsibile even though Bush et al knew that there was no proof of WMD yet told everyone that they had proof? An answer would be appropriate.
I have never seen proof he did not know, only wild speculation. If John Kerry had not ignored his constitutional duty to control the military use of force we would not be in Iraq..
You are consistently ignoring my points and concentrating on your own little subset, perhaps because Fox (or your religious leader) has only given you a certain number of prepackaged answers?
What makes you think I voted for Bush or watch Fox?
If if if, if
Way to ignore it... You can accuse people of being single isue voters and zealot because you disagree with them and then try to turn it on its head. YOu dont agree with someone when they consider something Murder and becuase you disagree with them you peg them zealots and ignorent single issue voters...
BTW where are the survey results showing Republicans and Conservatives are less informed than Liberals and Democrats?
You are becoming ridiculous. You refuse to admint that Bush tricked congress, will you not admit that he tricked them? Im going to say that again so that when youu ignore it AGAIN it will look bad. DO YOU NOT ADMIT THAT BUSH TRICKED CONGRESS INTO AUTHORIZING HIM TO USE FORCE? I made the comment about Fox because it is statistically likely that you watch it. Your tirade about 'the left' and 'liberals' sounds just like excrement that gushes forth every time Bill O'Reilly opens his mouth. I never stated that you voted for Bush, you should read my post again. I think single issue voters, in particular anti-abortionists are extremely easy to dupe, and I have been proven right. Dont be so naiive. You dont know my opinion on abortion at all (you might think you do but you do NOT).
Again I notice you refuse to acknowledge my comments about France. Why is this?
I'm not expecting you to answer (or be able to satisfactorily answer) most of my points, again.
adieu
Thanks for the interesting feedback and analysis. I really appreciate it when I can throw out some of my opinions -- not for the sake of starting a flame war, but to provoke conversation -- and get some meaningful thought thrown back at me. We're both better off as a result.
I got my very first "foe" in this thread. That's sad, because I was actually trying to be constructive this time. I think my words might have hit a little too close to home...
I'm fiscally very conservative, but socially, I'm slightly to the left. This surprised me when I took the politicalcompass survey. As is probably apparent in earlier posts on this thread, I don't know that I've quite figured out my position on the foreign affairs spectrum. That's fine; I'm not in any danger of being called upon to opine on Arab-American relations any time soon. I've got some time to figure myself out here.
I've voted Republican or third party for as long as I've been able to vote. But in the days after this election, I find myself melancholy -- I don't feel that the country has "won" by electing Bush. While I firmly believe that, had we elected Kerry, we'd be worse off in 2008 than in 2004, I'm not confident that, under Bush, we'll be any better off, either. I can only hope that, in 2008, we're not all still bitter, petty, whining, partisan political snobs.
Conversation is nice for a change.
The cure for cancer is coming: Reovirus
Why on earth do you say that?
"Socially liberal" covers issues like gay marriage and separation of church and state that are fiscally neutral. "Socially liberal" sometimes includes issues like universal health care, which are potentially expensive (although the amount paid per person by countries like Canada, UK, and Australia suggests otherwise).
"Socially conservative" also includes issues that are extremely expensive, such as the War on Drugs, as well as more modestly expensive programs like FCC obscenity monitoring.
Both "fiscally conservative" and "socially liberal" are popular policies. While any other policy does require some compromise when paired with fiscal conservatism, I agree with you that the Dems could gain significant ground by hammering away on these two points, particularly the former. "It's the economy, stupid" worked before, and would probably work again.
> as an American. The other half is trying to put aside your differences and
> making an attempt to work with the person in power.
Then how do you explain the amount of time and energy purposefully wasted by Republicans trying to impeach Clinton for having a shady private life?
You may realize that putting aside differences and working to get the job done is crucially important, but Republicans as a whole clearly have no idea. (Not that I'm going to argue Democrats do either...)
> last 18 months. We lost 3,000 of our citizens in 12 hours on 9/11/2001.
And we lost 40,000 of our citizens in car accidents in each of the last 4 years. If that's not a reason to declare a War on Cars, then losing 800 people per year to terrorist attacks over the last 4 years isn't a reason to focus on terrorism to the exclusion of all else.
There appears to be a lack of rational threat assessment in society today, and the Bush administration either seems to have fallen prey to the same flaw or (worse) is actively exploiting and even encouraging it (bouncing threat colors).
For that reason, I very much disagree with you that Bush is likely to ask the question "Is this threat severe enough to warrant immediate action?" Based on the Iraq war, it doesn't appear that this administration thought hard about any of the questions in your first group, which is---frankly---one of the main reasons I view the Bush administration as dangerous.
The Bush administration has a track record of not asking these crucial questions---or not listening to the answers, at least---and dropping someone who has failed to ask them for someone who might fail to ask them doesn't seem so absurd.
Worse yet, the Bush administration seems hampered by an intense unwillingness to admit when it makes a mistake, which impedes the learning process. I'd be very happy if the government learned from its mistakes and thought much more deeply about your questions in the future, but the unwillingness to take responsibility I've seen ("we didn't say it was about WMDs, we said it was about freedom!") makes me concerned.
> bothered by, is that the rest of the civilized world did not want to do a
> damn thing to help shape what is normal seen as the humane thing to do.
Frankly, the rest of the world doesn't believe that the US has such pure and noble intentions.
The rest of the world believes the US is waging this war for purely selfish reasons, be they oil or the security of US citizens, with little or no regard for the effects of this war on the rest of the world.
The rest of the world thinks the US doesn't give a damn about anything but the US, and isn't convinced that it should spend its own blood and money doing the US's bidding.
Given the available evidence, is it any wonder the rest of the world thinks this?
> Bush got more votes that REAGAN!!!
So did Kerry.
From the link you gave:
Kerry 2004: 55,638,551 votes
Reagan 1984: 54,455,472 votes
Reagan 1980: 43,903,230 votes
That correlation between post-graduate education and Bush support could be attributed to high income tax brackets and a class immunity to military service.
no
There are biological reasons to support traditional marriage that are simply undeniable. That's why proponents of gay marriage try to make it a rights issue.
It's not just about rights.
Many people in exit polls supported some level of legal protection for gay couples, but "marriage" just isn't the word to describe what they're doing.
--Tony
Correction : that should read :
Now that the electronic voting machines in this country have soundly rejected the leftist agenda,
In Soviet Russia, our new overlords are belong to all your base.
"marriage" just isn't the word to describe what they're doing.
People have been getting "civil unions" forever. People who for whatever reason choose to go to town hall and receive a non-religious marriage from a judge or other official. Civil unions are, and have always been, marriages. You are perfectly free to call them whatever you like, but for ALL LEGAL PURPOSES there is no distinction between marriages and civil unions.
There are biological reasons
Then post menopausal women have no right to get married, and infertile couples have no right to get married, and couples who for whatever reason never had sex and never will have sex have no right to get married.
Some people who get married certainly happen to have children, but the law does NOT prohibit people from getting married when cannot/willnot have children. There is no legal connection between marriage and sex, some married couples never have sex at all.
It's not just about rights.
I will consider believing you if you can show you actually understand and explain a case which indisputably *IS* about rights:
Some years ago there were a large number of people who said the definition of marriage was one man and one woman of the same race. States had laws refusing to grant/recognize marriage for interracial couples. People who did not want interracial marriage imposed on them. People outraged at such an attempt to redefine marriage. Such states certainly could have gone so far as to pass states constitutional amendments defining marriage as only being for one man and one woman of the same race.
I presume you agree this is a "rights issue". I ask you to explain the legal basis and legal reasoning to EXPLAIN why these states were UNABLE to do what they wanted. Not a fuzzy rant that they were wrong, but the reason it was IMPOSSIBLE for any law or state amendment to accomplish what they wanted. An actual legal basis for overruling their desires and imposing interracial marriages against their will.
I can give that explanation, and I will gladly do so if you ask me to do so. If you understand the issue and can provide that explanation then you have shown that you can reasonably make judgements about what is and is not a "rights issue". If you are UNABLE to provide that explanation then you have to admit that you realy do not adaquately understand the legalities well enough to credibly assert that gay marriage is NOT a right issue.
Go ahead, show me you understand the legalities you are talking about. Either that or ask me to explain it to you.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
I wish you and your balkanized country a great time on your way back to civil war and the middle ages. It pleases my soul to know that a whacko-republican majority seems assured for decades to come and to ensure the decline of your country.
Anti-Bush is not the same thing as Leftwing. Neither is pushing people to vote for Kerry!
There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion. -- Francis Bacon
You made a death threat to me.
You stalked me.
You tried "outing" me, threatening "me" with personal information posted to Slashdot, and made THREATENING phone calls to "me". ("me" indicates a serious mistake in mistaken identity on the part of Stalking FMaxwell)
You are against gun owners. No gun rights activist would vote for Kerry. He lost. The NRA and the Swift Vets FUCKED him , rightfully so.
You claim that Canada's drug shakedown of Drug companies costs the taxpayers of Canada nothing, it does. Stop trying to create a general store in the USA.
You own all "politically correct guns" with low cap magazines. Don't even try to make it like you own an AR or high cap semi-auto rifles or SBRs or any NFA guns or anything that illegally got banned in MD, NJ, CA and Cook Country IL.
You are the person meting out death threats.
You are the gun confiscator and gun banner.
You are the LOSER in the year. We took the HOUSE, the SENATE, we got rid of DASCHLE, we have 34 GOVERNORSHIPS, GOP is governor of MA AND CA, and we took the WHITE HOUSE by 4.5 million votes. PREPARE TO BE OBSOLETE you left-wing totalitarian. The people hate you for violating OUR CIVIL RIGHTS and our RIGHT TO PRIVACY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
though i decided it was time to change it, being that the sig was almost 10 years old.
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -David Hume
We are called the United States of America. The Declaration of Independence doesn't forget states. The concept of independent states is embedded in every article of the Constitution. Our country is a federation, or union, of states. That's why the President gives the State of the Union address every year. Union of what? States.
Yes, every vote does count, and each vote counts for its respective state's choice. A Vermont vote counts for Vermont's choice. If Vermont has more pro-Democrat votes than it needs to choose the Democrat candidate (i.e. over 50%), its votes cannot spill over into other states' vote counts to influence their choice.
Who are you?
I would think that being one of the least biased and having a "relatively strong liberal/progressive bias" would be a contradiction in terms. That or we are in a dark age of media impartiality. In any case, NPR is not a great progressive voice compared to the likes of Salon.
Not a contradiction, because other outlets have stronger biases. I agree that NPR != Salon, but that doesn't mean that they are bias-free.
Need Geek Rock? Try The Franchise!
We've almost hit the 5000 mark on this one.
Right back at ya, you mud covered incest-having Elbonian! Long live fossil fuels and nuclear weapons!!!!
God I love this country! Now, where's my shotgun, I've got some some furry animals to shoot...
That skit is pretty funny. I suppose that countries which haven't pretended to separate church and state as much as we have in America have had to actually separate them, to remain "modern" and free. Eg. making laws protecting churches as special cases, citing "make no law respecting an establishment of religion" backwards, has interfered with Americans actually shaking off the tyranny of the church, because we think we already have. Laughing at hypocrisy is much more effective than outlawing it - the hypocrisy industry thrives on hypocrites being tolerated and sympathetically misunderstood.
--
make install -not war
Actually to show how stupid your statement is I can point out that one of the 'uber elite smart' states (California) put 45% of its vote to Bush, and one of the 'backward hick states' Iowa gave 49% to Kerry. So no your simple little world view of red states bad dumb bush supporters, blue states nice loving kerry supporters does not fit.
DO YOU NOT ADMIT THAT BUSH TRICKED CONGRESS INTO AUTHORIZING HIM TO USE FORCE?
Two reasons: I have never seen proof he was trying to 'trick them' and according to you Bush is an Idiot and he tricked a smart senator from Boston. Fact is the measure itself was a foolish and unconstitutional one, and Kerry / Bush should be ashamed that they are in any way tied to it. But because you hate Bush you'll give kerry a pass for playing politics with his vote for 'force'.
I made the comment about Fox because it is statistically likely that you watch it.
Based on what, you still cant produce a study showing bush voters are stupid, now you want to start digging another hole by saying statisticaly because I am conservative I watch fox?
I think single issue voters, in particular anti-abortionists are extremely easy to dupe, and I have been proven right. Dont be so naiive.
Yea like those pesky single issue voters who wanted to end slavery, they should have seen the bigger picture..
From those lefties in the Washington Times: [http://www.washtimes.com/national/20041109-12275
Wow you are comparing anti-abortionists to those who struggled against slavery, how noble a quest. You clearly have a very high opinion of yourself.
Your continued misuse of the english language merely confirms my suspicions of you.
Like this map Its a bit more telling when you look at a county map than the state maps. 45% of California voted for Bush, thats not some little statistic to be ignored. Kerry beat Bush by less than half a percentage point in WI the fact is the nation is not divided by state its divided by Urban Vs. Sub-Urban. If thats too complicated a world view for you im sorry.
Ninety percent of the red states are welfare-client states of the federal government
Now whos pulling meaningless stats out of nowhere? Fact is if you look at a county map of the 'red' states you see that the large population centers (in AK look at little rock, in LA look at NO) voted for Kerry. So once you step out of your three year old mind set that California is Blue and Missipi is Red its not so simple to say that. That being said I dont know if red counties, and neighborhoods receive money but neither do you.
Wow you are comparing anti-abortionists to those who struggled against slavery, how noble a quest. You clearly have a very high opinion of yourself.
Yes I consider Killing babies to be *at least* as bad as slavery, and no I dont have a high opinion of myself.
If you wish to continue to delude yourself that there are not 'educated' and 'redneck' states then be my guest. You ARE incorrect. The majority of more educated and wealthy states just 'happened' to vote for Kerry, while the fetid, backwater, racist, bible-bashing states 'happened' to vote for Bush.
I really dont understand you and your 'Christian morals'. You think that giving parents the right to choose whether to continue with a pregnancy or not is as great an injustice as stealing humans from their homeland, then forcing them to work for nothing while murdering, raping and torturing them.
How can you say that. I think its an absolute disgrace.
So I see you know as much about Jesus as you do the US political landscape.. Jesus threw over tables and attacked people for changing money infront of the temple. Just because 'Buddy-Jesus' is the current fad does not change anything.
You think that giving parents the right to choose whether to continue with a pregnancy or not is as great an injustice as stealing humans from their homeland, then forcing them to work for nothing while murdering, raping and torturing them.
Lets see Would I consider a law letting people kill a 2 year old as bad as slavery? yes I do. If you are so obtuse that you cant even try to see it from another point of view you're beyond all hope...
I say this because I believe human life starts at conception and its wrong to kill human life. And killing babies is as bad as slavery. By the way current abortion law in the us does not giev 'parents' any say, fathers have no rights in the abortion decision.
You ARE incorrect. The majority of more educated and wealthy states just 'happened' to vote for Kerry, while the fetid, backwater, racist, bible-bashing states 'happened' to vote for Bush.
Actually in some of the states a plurality, not a majority voted for Kerry (WI for example). And if you think the deluded one is somebody who would rather look at a state map than a more accurate county map have a nice day..
Well... thats not what I was talking about. I was talking about ABORTION, I know thats a big word but Im sure you can go find out what it is. So you think that the State allowing people to do what they want with their own bodies (neither condemning nor condoning abortions) is as bad as a state that sells, tortures and rapes people based on their skin colour.
How civilised.
If you want to go after someone for violating your civil rights and your rights to privacy, go hunt down Ashcroft. He's the one pushing the patriot act and patriot 2.
Under those acts, the FBI does not even have to show a reasonable suspicion that the records that they want are even related to criminal activity, much less the requirement for probable cause that is listed in the Fourth Amendment. Judicial oversight of these new powers is non-existent. The government must only certify to a judge - with no need for evidence or proof - that such a search meets the statute's broad criteria, and the judge does not even have the authority to reject the application. Surveillance orders can be based in part on a person's legal First Amendment activities, such as the books they read, the Web sites they visit, or a letter to the editor they have written. Anyone forced to turn over records is prohibited from disclosing the search to anyone. As a result of this gag order, the subjects of surveillance never even find out that their personal records have been examined by the government, undercutting the ability of individuals to challenge illegitimate searches.
If Clinton had proposed anything like that, the right wing nut-jobs would have been calling for his impeachment, criminal trial, and execution for treason. But when Bush and Ashcroft push it, the same people say that opposing it would be unpatriotic.
And the difference is when Life begins, if you say its not life until the age of reason (7) whats the difference between killing a two year old and a baby two months old in the womb?
I know thats a big word but Im sure you can go find out what it is.
So you got over your hurt feeling long enough to throw some mud of your own eh?
So you think that the State allowing people to do what they want with their own bodies (neither condemning nor condoning abortions) is as bad as a state that sells, tortures and rapes people based on their skin colour. How civilised.
Well considering the southerners used arguments like 'they are not human', and 'its our property well do with it what we want' it seems to compare very well with the pro-death crowds 'its not human' and 'its my body ill do with it what I want'.
The huge moral outrage you feel over slavery is because you define African Americans as human beings, southers slave owners did not. The outrage I feel over Abortion is because I consider *Human* life to begin at conception, you do not.
You use words like 'pro-death' and 'pro-life' as if you are a force for good and people who have different beliefs to yours are a force of evil. This clearly illustrates your lack of objectivity and inflated sense of self-importance.
Pigs are alive two, they are not afforded human life. Obviously an unborn baby is alive the question becomes is it human life? Southerners did not consider slaves Human, the pro-death crowd does not consider unborn babies Human.. For both parties that opinion makes it easier for them to look into the mirror. That way slave owners and the pro death crowd can look at themselves and feel so gosh darn superior to those ignorent folks who want to 'impose' on them.
You use words like 'pro-death' and 'pro-life' as if you are a force for good and people who have different beliefs to yours are a force of evil. This clearly illustrates your lack of objectivity and inflated sense of self-importance.
I use words like pro-life, and pro-death because thats what its about. I myself am too unimportant to be a 'force' for anything. God will use me as he will use me and if that means I am to sweep floors for the rest of my life and never be know so be it.
Different beliefs do not justify stripping away human rights. Many Muslims believe that women are property, that they can be killed for having sex outside of marrage, do we respect those beliefs? The question is when does human life begin, and the only solid scientific answer is either conception or birth, and as one can hardly say a baby two minutes from birth is fundimentally different at a biological level than one two minutes after birth I choose conception.
Btw nice ignoring of my question about why you dont behave like a christian.
Really? and when exactly is that? Who makes that decision? It took mankind more that 1500 years to overcome the church and take man kind out of the center of the univers, now we are going to put him right back in the name of secular humanism?
Tell me when you think it begins and why..
Btw nice ignoring of my question about why you dont behave like a christian.
This coming from the man who *still* has not posted a link showing that those who voted for Bush are less intelligent than those who vated for kerry..
Perhaps you would like to explain where this 1500 year number came from? Or you could just ignore it and move on to something else, perhaps a rant against Darwin's theories or a nice explanation of how the story of Adam and Eve is actually true. I'm sorry for not being more clear about it, that was wild conjecture on my part, based around the utterly moronic reasont that Bush voters gave for their presidential choice.
Btw nice ignoring of my question about why you dont behave like a christian should.
Well that nice and specific enough to make a law, thanks. Its nice to know that when it comes to killing a human being you feel comfortable pullnig the trigger when you have not even decided when life begins.
maybe around a time when there would be a chance that the baby could live on its own if it was born (and obviously fed and taken care of)
In 1972 this would have been 32 weeks, today babies as young as 21 weeks are born and survivce (without ill health) so does you definition chage with every single scientific advancement? We define a human being as someone healthy enough to live with todays technology? So a Roe V Wade Victim in 1973 is justified but a Roe V Wade Victim today is not?
And I hate to tell you that the time period between Copernicus (1473-1543) proposing an alternative to the Ptolemaic model and Newton (1643-1727) convincing the Church that we were not at the center of the universe is FAR less than 1500 years.
Early maps from the christian church put earth at the center of the universe with the sun rotating around it, from that time to Newton was around 1500 years.
I'm sorry for not being more clear about it, that was wild conjecture on my part
Yes it was
Btw nice ignoring of my question about why you dont behave like a christian should.
Hey if someone does or says something stupid as a Christian I can take them to task on it.
Yeah right, I think the majority of people in both your country and mine would agree with me on this one though. It's hard to say exactly when it begins because it's a gradual, organic process. I think it is silly of YOU to try to paint ME as a barbarian here, so please desist.
Interesting, whats your point. What I took issue with is quoted below:
Incorrect, mankind started to overcome the Church (on this matter) with Copernicus (in 1543). So for how long was mankind struggling to 'overcome the church'? Im sure your math capabilities are enough to get you through this one...
Wow no rants about evolution or adam and eve, im impressed
And I am assuming you have something to demonstrate this? I would also put it to you more people agreeing with you does not make it right, in 1800 most people in the US agreed slavery was OK.
It's hard to say exactly when it begins because it's a gradual, organic process.
Conception is not gradual, one minute you have a sperm and an egg the next you have Human life. The problem with saying I dont know so lets ignore it is that in the meantime people are dying.
I think it is silly of YOU to try to paint ME as a barbarian here, so please desist.
Perhaps if you were not so calous twords abortion I might not have to point out youre acting like a barbarian
Interesting, whats your point. What I took issue with is quoted below
Because geocentric theory predated any of the scientist you mentiond, it stated about 1500 years before it was debunked..
Just a few fun questions for you, do you believe in darwinian evolution as an explanation for how mankind came to be? And do you believe that Adam and Eve actually existed? Why dont you give me your opinions on these matters.
No, I don't.
And do you believe that Adam and Eve actually existed?
Yes I do, Nobody expects the slashdot inquistion. So I guess because I have different beliefs than you I am barbarian. But you can kill unborn babies so long as you believe evolution?
I did say that your country is barbaric, and in my opinion it is more barbaric than any other country in the developed world. I didnt say or imply that, I was just curious to know what you thought about those two issues. I think it would be interesting to see statistical data reflecting the amount of people who have your beliefs (regarding the bible and evolution) that also believe that abortion is murder, and vice-versa for the people who do not share your beliefs.
You didnt want to answer my question about the church v science issue? No matter.
Just out of curiosity (and I'm not trying to score points off you on this) If you believe in a rigid interpretation of the Adam and Eve story, dou you also believe that the serpent could talk? Also do you think it was a fitting punishment for the serpent to be made to crawl on its belly?