Amen. All I meant was that it has become intuitive, in the same way that, say, English is to English-speakers. But to somebody learning it whose native language is, say, Chinese, it is verging on nonsense. There are virtually no standards. But it's intuitive to you and I.
But I absolutely agree with you that Windows is a hodge-podge of questionable or barely-existent UIs. But, unfortunately, people think that Windows equals computers. And that will be hard to get beyond.
Unfortunately, intuitive seems to mean a Windows-like OS, for most purposes. Though I don't doubt that, through the sort of studies that Tog does, it's possible to develop truly intuitive OSs, that's not likely anytime soon.
No, what "intutive" really means is "like Windows." Having worked with all 3 major platforms for quite some time now, I've found that what most people really want is a Start button and Explorer as their OS. Disgusting, no?
Obviously, you and I aren't most people. That's why we're reading Slashdot. But trying to get your grandmother to use anything but Windows, which she's used twice, is going to scare her.
So that's how we do it, that's how we make an intuitive GUI. Imitate Windows.
I agree that it's easy to set up. I thought that it would be a huge nightmare, but it actually turned out to be really easy.
However, it doesn't work like it *should*. I'm hoping that 8.10 will fix this. Apache's treatment of virtual servers is how I want Sendmail to treat them. Let's say that I have two domains: example.org and example.com. And I (waldo) want to get mail at each of those, but in separate POP accounts. And my mail server is named mail.example.com. I have to do this:
1. Let CW recognise example.org & example.com. 2. Get virtusertable to recognise waldo at both accounts and redirect them to separate accounts. 3. Create two system user accounts: example.org-waldo and example.com-waldo. 4. Give them shells of/bin/false. 5. Set up my mail program to check both accounts on mail.example.com with the two e-mail addresses, and have to outgoing reply-to set to the "real" address.
This is really ugly. I'm certain that there must be more elegant work arounds (probably involving MySQL), but I don't mind quite enough to get up to that.
What would be *way* nicer would be a setup where the domains are truly apart from one another. No redirecting accounts. mail.example.org and mail.example.com would be recognised differently by my mail server.
Now, I kind of got this working once, involving (*shudder*) linuxconf. I don't know how it worked, but there was all kinds of weird directories, like/vhome. But when I had to add a new account, wary of linuxconf, I ended up reinstalling sendmail and setting up a convoluted system like I've described above.
Hopefully, a more Apache-like system will come into being with 8.10. I can't take much more of this.:) BTW, do yourself a favour -- don't get the bat book. It'll only scare you. I mean, it's a great book, don't get me wrong, but it's just more information than you need to get a basic server up. You'll just get overwhelmed.
I know that it's less convenient, but consider an involved donation. Rather than just sending a cheque somewhere, it can be much more helpful (to the organisation) and satisfying (to you) to give money as well as some of your own time.
A prime example is educational programs, like we discussed on Slashdot yesterday. There are plenty of organisations working to teach disadvantaged children how to use computers, and most of them are disgustingly under-funded.
There are other groups -- Computers For Kids kind of things -- that are in the business of taking old computers and turning them into useful learning vessels for children. Most of these programs are inexplicably hooked on Microsoft software, and a $20,000 shot in the arm along with a little hand-holding could result in hundreds of children learning the ways of *nix and OSS.
In order to make these donations useful to you and to them, some involvement, even if just for a few days, would be immensely helpful. You would get to direct how your money got spent and you could see the results of your hard work -- excited children that think that Tux is way cooler than Mickey Mouse(tm). And the organisations would be pushed in a direction that they might not otherwise have discovered, instead wandering down the path of closed-source and Visual Basic into the Land of Mediocrity.
I envy your opportunity. I've never had much money to give away, but, when I do, I try and do it in an involved manner. Some call it ego-boosting, but I call it the most satisfying donation that you can give. Any fool (think Bill Gates) can give some money and walk away. But a rare few fools give some money and their time. You got your money through your expertise. Give away a bit of each.
It would be nice if there were a contest like this that permitted server-specific entries. I can appreciate the value of this contest as it exists, but I'd have a lot more fun (see my business partner's page -- yes, it's supposed to look like that) if I could enjoy the wonders of PHP and MySQL.
If someone had a duplicate set of keys to your car, would you complain when they take it only because they can? What if they decide to just keep it because they like it?
That's what makes this all so interesting. I own a crowbar, which provides me with access to your vehicle. Owning a crowbar is not illegal. They're using for many things beyond getting into cars. Using a crowbar to get into a car is illegal.
I'd hate for this to be the first step towards banning digital crowbars (read as: tools.)
Funkman wrote: So I can break into an office, copy all of the information in the filing cabinets with a copier and as long as I replace the toner and paper I used and restored everything to its original condition, then its not illegal?
Waldo wrote: I understand that IP works differently, but we're going to have to work on the laws to make them apply.
That's not what I said. What I said was that the tools used to steal IP aren't the same as tools used to steal objects. They should be treated differently in the eyes of the law.
"These crimes were the high-tech equivalent of physically breaking into a business and stealing valuable documents from a locked file cabinet..."
People need to learn that the two simply don't equate. Stealing means that a victim does no longer have what was once theirs. Breaking into something means physically harming a device intended to prevent entry for the purpose of extracting data.
Neither of these things apply in this case. I understand that IP works differently, but we're going to have to work on the laws to make them apply. "[P]ossession of burglary or theft tools" just don't cut it.
Twice today my phone rang unnecessarily -- BulkRegister was vocally spamming me. I was called by some brainless little twit that had never heard of Tucows, and didn't seem to be at all interested in my protests.
So, looking for a registrar? Don't use Tucows. Instead, put your energies into making a telephone RBL.:)
From what information is available, what do you think of Eazel? Is this necessary, or are Gnome and KDE too geek-driven to ever meet consumer preference/demand? Do you think that Gnome or KDE could be modified to create a consumer-level GUI, or will it take a project like Eazel to start from scratch? How essential is all this to the success of Linux?
The merchant site also implements an electronic shopping cart that allows the customer to select products from multiple different Web sites, and then perform a single "check out" from the merchant's site.
Have they also patented the concept of purchasing from multiple websites through a single website, even w/o a referral program? IANAL, nor do I have the skills to pretend to be one, so could somebody explain this one?
When did right-wing Republications take over the word "family"? Every bloody wacko anti-free-speech organizations out there has "family" in their name.
I think that they want us to figure that, heck, they're pro-family. And who could be *anti* family? Therefore, opposing them means that you're...what...pro-orphan?
Bah. If pro-family means pro-censorware, chalk me up in the Norwegan bachelor male category.
Bluetooth seems like a genuine Good Thing(tm). Good marketing, good buzz, good open architecture, and a good technology.
Am I missing something? Is there a dark side to Bluetooth? It seems like a wholly benevolent and wonderful thing, with no downsides, catches or dark forces controlling it.
These modern "digital data storage" mechanisms just can't match the analog data warmth of LP. Dataophiles everywhere know that LP gives the best-flowing data anywhere.
I've been storing my jazz and classical MP3s on my LP hard drive. Of course, I had to get a way bigger case for my G3, but it's totally worth it.
Well, there's always Dvorak, though the benefits of that are up in the air. (My inciteful comment on that topic (#47) was soundly defeated. (#190):)
I'm not certain that it would help, but you could get a big keyboard and feel like the world's tiniest geek.
And there's those cool one-handed keyboards. Again, I don't know if it would help, but you could use two of 'em and multi-task fiercely.
Of course, the all-thumb keyboard. It's essentially ASL, but while wearing a glove. This one is my personal favourite. Probably not as good for coding (there's a convenience, or at least a learned one, to the location of the squiggly brackets, carets, parenthesis, etc.)
Oh, and programs like ViaVoice. Those are more and more highly rated. Again, probably not good for coding, but a hell of a start. Perhaps that combined with another keyboard, like a chording one, might do ya' right.
Check out comment #141 by SkurfGod (sorry, I'd link directly to the comment, but it comes up blank. Also, #213 by an AC, and #562 by synaptic.
Now, |DaBuzz|, in comment #596, posted a response that he got after e-mailing 'em:
We do not sell email addresses nor are we a "front" for email gathering.
Yes we are majority owned by IBL Inc. IBL is a database marketing company that builds large scale databases for many Fortune 500 companies. IBL deals mostly with business data, not consumer, and has absolutely no data sharing with ChooseYourMail.com. We are two separate companies and we share office space and data center facilities in their Chicago headquarters.
I can see how this could raise an eyebrow. If we did what you acuse, ISP associations, anti-spam groups, even the FTC, wouldn't support us.
If you'd like to talk, please give me a call at your convenience.
That's about all of the useful info, though. Draw your own conclusions. I know that I have.:) This is enough to make me suspicious of anybody in this business!
Slashdot Mirror
In a nutshell:
They said that they have a agreement with websites that they won't use the phone number for telemarketing. I don't remember getting asked, do you?
Windows is not intuitive.
Amen. All I meant was that it has become intuitive, in the same way that, say, English is to English-speakers. But to somebody learning it whose native language is, say, Chinese, it is verging on nonsense. There are virtually no standards. But it's intuitive to you and I.
But I absolutely agree with you that Windows is a hodge-podge of questionable or barely-existent UIs. But, unfortunately, people think that Windows equals computers. And that will be hard to get beyond.
-Waldo
Unfortunately, intuitive seems to mean a Windows-like OS, for most purposes. Though I don't doubt that, through the sort of studies that Tog does, it's possible to develop truly intuitive OSs, that's not likely anytime soon.
No, what "intutive" really means is "like Windows." Having worked with all 3 major platforms for quite some time now, I've found that what most people really want is a Start button and Explorer as their OS. Disgusting, no?
Obviously, you and I aren't most people. That's why we're reading Slashdot. But trying to get your grandmother to use anything but Windows, which she's used twice, is going to scare her.
So that's how we do it, that's how we make an intuitive GUI. Imitate Windows.
Gosh, that's an awful thing to have to say.
I agree that it's easy to set up. I thought that it would be a huge nightmare, but it actually turned out to be really easy.
/bin/false.
/vhome. But when I had to add a new account, wary of linuxconf, I ended up reinstalling sendmail and setting up a convoluted system like I've described above.
:) BTW, do yourself a favour -- don't get the bat book. It'll only scare you. I mean, it's a great book, don't get me wrong, but it's just more information than you need to get a basic server up. You'll just get overwhelmed.
However, it doesn't work like it *should*. I'm hoping that 8.10 will fix this. Apache's treatment of virtual servers is how I want Sendmail to treat them. Let's say that I have two domains: example.org and example.com. And I (waldo) want to get mail at each of those, but in separate POP accounts. And my mail server is named mail.example.com. I have to do this:
1. Let CW recognise example.org & example.com.
2. Get virtusertable to recognise waldo at both accounts and redirect them to separate accounts.
3. Create two system user accounts: example.org-waldo and example.com-waldo.
4. Give them shells of
5. Set up my mail program to check both accounts on mail.example.com with the two e-mail addresses, and have to outgoing reply-to set to the "real" address.
This is really ugly. I'm certain that there must be more elegant work arounds (probably involving MySQL), but I don't mind quite enough to get up to that.
What would be *way* nicer would be a setup where the domains are truly apart from one another. No redirecting accounts. mail.example.org and mail.example.com would be recognised differently by my mail server.
Now, I kind of got this working once, involving (*shudder*) linuxconf. I don't know how it worked, but there was all kinds of weird directories, like
Hopefully, a more Apache-like system will come into being with 8.10. I can't take much more of this.
-Waldo
Wow, Nat, you made the front page of Slashdot! (And a wicked cool app, but I've got weird priorities.)
/. hell, some ObContent:
OK, so that this doesn't get moderated to
Helix Code was originally known as "International GNOME Support."
Hey, that counts as content, right?
-Waldo
I know that it's less convenient, but consider an involved donation. Rather than just sending a cheque somewhere, it can be much more helpful (to the organisation) and satisfying (to you) to give money as well as some of your own time.
A prime example is educational programs, like we discussed on Slashdot yesterday. There are plenty of organisations working to teach disadvantaged children how to use computers, and most of them are disgustingly under-funded.
There are other groups -- Computers For Kids kind of things -- that are in the business of taking old computers and turning them into useful learning vessels for children. Most of these programs are inexplicably hooked on Microsoft software, and a $20,000 shot in the arm along with a little hand-holding could result in hundreds of children learning the ways of *nix and OSS.
In order to make these donations useful to you and to them, some involvement, even if just for a few days, would be immensely helpful. You would get to direct how your money got spent and you could see the results of your hard work -- excited children that think that Tux is way cooler than Mickey Mouse(tm). And the organisations would be pushed in a direction that they might not otherwise have discovered, instead wandering down the path of closed-source and Visual Basic into the Land of Mediocrity.
I envy your opportunity. I've never had much money to give away, but, when I do, I try and do it in an involved manner. Some call it ego-boosting, but I call it the most satisfying donation that you can give. Any fool (think Bill Gates) can give some money and walk away. But a rare few fools give some money and their time. You got your money through your expertise. Give away a bit of each.
-Waldo
It would be nice if there were a contest like this that permitted server-specific entries. I can appreciate the value of this contest as it exists, but I'd have a lot more fun (see my business partner's page -- yes, it's supposed to look like that) if I could enjoy the wonders of PHP and MySQL.
:)
Anybody wanna start a contest?
If someone had a duplicate set of keys to your car, would you complain when they take it only because they can? What if they decide to just keep it because they like it?
That's what makes this all so interesting. I own a crowbar, which provides me with access to your vehicle. Owning a crowbar is not illegal. They're using for many things beyond getting into cars. Using a crowbar to get into a car is illegal.
I'd hate for this to be the first step towards banning digital crowbars (read as: tools.)
Funkman wrote:
So I can break into an office, copy all of the information in the filing cabinets with a copier and as long as I replace the toner and paper I used and restored everything to its original condition, then its not illegal?
Waldo wrote:
I understand that IP works differently, but we're going to have to work on the laws to make them apply.
That's not what I said. What I said was that the tools used to steal IP aren't the same as tools used to steal objects. They should be treated differently in the eyes of the law.
"These crimes were the high-tech equivalent of physically breaking into a business and stealing valuable documents from a locked file cabinet..."
People need to learn that the two simply don't equate. Stealing means that a victim does no longer have what was once theirs. Breaking into something means physically harming a device intended to prevent entry for the purpose of extracting data.
Neither of these things apply in this case. I understand that IP works differently, but we're going to have to work on the laws to make them apply. "[P]ossession of burglary or theft tools" just don't cut it.
-Waldo
Bah. Don't use *BulkRegister* -- use Tucows! Preview doesn't help the stupid. :)
Twice today my phone rang unnecessarily -- BulkRegister was vocally spamming me. I was called by some brainless little twit that had never heard of Tucows, and didn't seem to be at all interested in my protests.
:)
So, looking for a registrar? Don't use Tucows. Instead, put your energies into making a telephone RBL.
From what information is available, what do you think of Eazel? Is this necessary, or are Gnome and KDE too geek-driven to ever meet consumer preference/demand? Do you think that Gnome or KDE could be modified to create a consumer-level GUI, or will it take a project like Eazel to start from scratch? How essential is all this to the success of Linux?
The Christmas Island registry (http://www.nic.cx) does a pretty fine job of things.
Yeah, but then you'd have a stupid domain name.
Signal11. You in? Thought so.
:) I knew that this karma of 68 would do me some good eventually. <Grin>
Hey, I got mentioned in a post with Signal 11.
Now if I could only get up to 400+, where Signal 11 is at... Why, I could patent karma!
The abstract reads, in part:
The merchant site also implements an electronic shopping cart that allows the customer to select products from multiple different Web sites, and then perform a single "check out" from the merchant's site.
Have they also patented the concept of purchasing from multiple websites through a single website, even w/o a referral program? IANAL, nor do I have the skills to pretend to be one, so could somebody explain this one?
The patent.
Gosh, I'm already boycotting 'em as a result of their last patent.
What's the next step? TPing Bezos' front lawn and putting a flaming bag of dog crap on his front porch?
Amazon.com -- Helping You Explore Your Violent Tendencies(tm).
When did right-wing Republications take over the word "family"? Every bloody wacko anti-free-speech organizations out there has "family" in their name.
I think that they want us to figure that, heck, they're pro-family. And who could be *anti* family? Therefore, opposing them means that you're...what...pro-orphan?
Bah. If pro-family means pro-censorware, chalk me up in the Norwegan bachelor male category.
Bluetooth seems like a genuine Good Thing(tm). Good marketing, good buzz, good open architecture, and a good technology.
:)
Am I missing something? Is there a dark side to Bluetooth? It seems like a wholly benevolent and wonderful thing, with no downsides, catches or dark forces controlling it.
Wow. Quick, somebody burst my bubble.
These modern "digital data storage" mechanisms just can't match the analog data warmth of LP. Dataophiles everywhere know that LP gives the best-flowing data anywhere.
I've been storing my jazz and classical MP3s on my LP hard drive. Of course, I had to get a way bigger case for my G3, but it's totally worth it.
Why, I can remember the days when I used a wax-based 33rpm storage system! None of this 15,000 kind of stuff for me, nosir, it's LPs or the highway.
It looks great, but, c'mon, it doesn't look as cool as a Pentium III, does it?
-Waldo
Haven't we had this discussion exactly one year ago? That you posted?
:)
Well, there's always Dvorak, though the benefits of that are up in the air. (My inciteful comment on that topic (#47) was soundly defeated. (#190)
I'm not certain that it would help, but you could get a big keyboard and feel like the world's tiniest geek.
And there's those cool one-handed keyboards. Again, I don't know if it would help, but you could use two of 'em and multi-task fiercely.
Of course, the all-thumb keyboard. It's essentially ASL, but while wearing a glove. This one is my personal favourite. Probably not as good for coding (there's a convenience, or at least a learned one, to the location of the squiggly brackets, carets, parenthesis, etc.)
Oh, and programs like ViaVoice. Those are more and more highly rated. Again, probably not good for coding, but a hell of a start. Perhaps that combined with another keyboard, like a chording one, might do ya' right.
Sounds plausible... a little too plausible for me to accept it without a credited source. Where did you hear this?
/. Unfortunately, a topic search for spam brings up only 2 articles.
:) This is enough to make me suspicious of anybody in this business!
Right here on
...
Ah-ha! I found the thread. It's called the Spam Recycling Center.
Check out comment #141 by SkurfGod (sorry, I'd link directly to the comment, but it comes up blank. Also, #213 by an AC, and #562 by synaptic.
Now, |DaBuzz|, in comment #596, posted a response that he got after e-mailing 'em:
We do not sell email addresses nor are we a "front" for email gathering.
Yes we are majority owned by IBL Inc. IBL is a database marketing company that builds large scale databases for many Fortune 500 companies. IBL deals mostly with business data, not consumer, and has absolutely no data sharing with ChooseYourMail.com. We are two separate companies and we share office space and data center facilities in their Chicago headquarters.
I can see how this could raise an eyebrow. If we did what you acuse, ISP associations, anti-spam groups, even the FTC, wouldn't support us.
If you'd like to talk, please give me a call at your convenience.
That's about all of the useful info, though. Draw your own conclusions. I know that I have.