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Helix Code Launched, Gnome Packages Available
From Nat:
Hello everyone!
We are proud to introduce "McKinley," the first preview of the Helix GNOME desktop. This is a beta release of the Helix Code GNOME distribution. The URL for Helix GNOME is:
http://www.helixcode.com/desktop/
The purpose of this distribution is to simplify the task of installing a fully featured, up-to-date version of GNOME on your favorite GNU/Linux distribution. You can now experience all the joy and all the excitement that goes into the wonderful world of GNOME without agonizing through long, arduous build processes.
Helix GNOME includes all of the core GNOME packages and a number of extras. The entire Helix GNOME desktop is pre-configured to be as attractive and simple as possible. You can see some screenshots here:
http://www.helixcode.com/desktop/screenshots.php3
Currently the Helix GNOME desktop is available for the following operating systems:
- Red Hat Linux 6.0 and 6.1
- SuSE Linux 6.3
- LinuxPPC 2000
- Linux Mandrake 6.1 and 7.0
- Caldera OpenLinux 2.3
In the next few weeks we will be releasing an updated version that will include support for other Linux distributions and other Unix systems. And of course, we're constantly adding packages to the build system and releasing new packages as new versions of the GNOME software become available.
How to install
--------------
We have made installing the full Helix GNOME desktop as easy as
possible. You just need to download the Helix installer program, and
it will take care of it for you:
You can find installation instructions at:
http://www.helixcode.com/desktop/download.php3
Mailing lists
-------------
If you want to subscribe to our announcements mailing lists, drop a message to:
announce-request@helixcode.com
And in the subject of the message put "subscribe". If you want to join the list of beta testers for the Helix GNOME distribution, send mail to:
beta-request@helixcode.com
A complete list of our mailing lists is available at:
http://www.helixcode.com/about/lists.php3
Questions and Answers regarding the Helix GNOME Desktop
------------------------------------------------------
Q: What does Helix Code do?
A:Helix Code is an open source software company devoted to improving GNOME, the leading desktop environment for Linux. We want to make GNOME the best desktop on the planet, and make it available to everyone.
Helix Code believes strongly in the importance of free software, which is why all of our software is licensed under the GNU GPL, and why all development is done in the public GNOME CVS repository.
Our main task is producing free applications for GNOME. Evolution is our first project: a groupware communications suite which includes an advanced mail client, calendar software and address book service.
We are also developing and improving the Gnumeric spreadsheet. Besides that, we maintain a number of core and peripheral packages of the GNOME system.
Q: What is the Helix GNOME Desktop?
A: Helix GNOME is a service offered to the GNOME user community by Helix Code, Inc.
The purpose of this distribution is to make it easy for end-users to install a fully-featured GNOME desktop on their favorite Unix system.
Q: Is this "Helix GNOME Desktop" another GNU/Linux distribution?
A: No, Helix GNOME is an add-on to your existing GNU/Linux distribution. You need an existing GNU/Linux system to run Helix GNOME.
Q: Is Helix GNOME free?
A: Yes, Helix GNOME is completely free. We are just packaging the latest and greatest versions of the various GNOME tools and making them as easy as possible for people to use.
As with other free software, you get the freedom to copy the software, modify the software, redistribute the software, and redistribute modified versions of the software.
Q: Can I buy a copy of Helix GNOME on a CD?
A: Helix GNOME will be available on CD in April.
Q: Does Helix GNOME distribution include support for Debian/Corel Linux?
A: Not yet, but we plan on supporting these systems in the near future.
Q: Does the Helix GNOME distribution include support for BSD?
A: The initial release of the Helix GNOME distribution does not include support for the free BSD systems, but we are on it.
Q: Will you provide timely updates to the various GNOME packages?
A: Yes, we will. GNOME is constantly under development. Whenever a new version of any piece of GNOME software is released, the dutiful hackers at Helix Code will do our best to make a packaged version available to you as quickly as possible.
Better still, the "Helix Update" application allows you to automatically update your GNOME desktop from the Helix web site whenever new packages become available. You can read more about Helix Update here:
http://www.helixcode.com/desktop/updater.php3
Q: Are you improving GNOME, or just shipping binaries?
A: The Helix GNOME desktop includes a number of improvements and patches that have been posted to public mailing lists, or have been committed to the GNOME CVS repository (but might not have been yet released to the public in source package format). This is all in the interests of making the best possible desktop experience available to GNOME users.
The Helix hackers are also constantly improving GNOME and the various GNOME tools, libraries and components and submitting patches to the various maintainers of those packages.
Helix Code employees actively maintain a huge number of GNOME packages, including: Bonobo, Achtung, Gnumeric, Go, Erdos, libzvt, gnome-terminal, gnome-core, gnome-applets, bug-buddy, gmc, gdk-pixbuf, eof, gnome canvas, evolution, gb, gtkhtml, gnome-vfs, camel, gnome-pim, glade, libibex, and others.
Q: Ok, I give up. What's spidermonkey?
A: Yes.
Enjoy!
The Helix Code Team
http://www.helixcode.com
In case you haven't realized it, the above person is actually employed to *market* the aforementioned product.
It's sickening to see this amount of infestation in the Linux community by the same thing that we all love to hate in that other well-known empire.
what are you smoking?
both work perfect under debian
who cares, cuz windowmaker kicks all WM's ass out the door, gotta love the 2 meg install
Do we see a trend here? Each of these products have been heavily marketed while still in the vaporware phase.
I'm glad to see that Linux is finally catching on to the rest of the commercial market.
a few weeks ago they leave the ./spidermonkey directory unprotected at their web site, so I had a look at the files. :-)
I know what spidermonkey is, but I won't tell
The new activation system uses something similar as well.
Best wishes,
Miguel.
This example should be followed on all future development if we expect Linux to "mainstream" anytime soon.
oh for christ's sake. of course, if you resort to using macros, but I was talking about some compiler being smart enough to do it on it's own.
Hope this helps.
Gosh, it sure does! I sure didn't know how to use preprocessor macros before you told me! How can I ever repay you.
You've got issues. I post a lengthy comment in response to yours which involves more than your longwinded and pointless code snippets, and the best you can say is "Not true again" as if to dismiss (or at least disregard) everything I said??
I point out where you are mistaken (indeed, mistaken in flaming someone else), and the best you can do is present some half-assed solution to some minor point I made, that any half-competent C programmer would be able to figure out themselves?
Fuck you.
Actually, I didn't say that.
By default, it is implementation dependent whether it is the case. It's a different situation if you introduce your own API (in the form of macros) to work around that. At that point you're no better off than with Gtk+ system.
You get upset too easily.
And you are an idiot.
I've got the exact same problem! Downloading the RPMs was a snap (really quick from eazel) but the installer doesn't let me choose local files (it greys out "next") Anyone know what's going on?
Well my guess is that it's pretty obvious what it *could* be. There's a natural evolution to Evolution and the spider monkey is it.
Hint:
What's the difference between a regular monkey and a spider monkey?
Is Helix alone in the GNOME universe?)
there's always one luser who cant spot an obvious troll at 10 paces
Just like 1999 was the year of the iMac only for really ignorant people, 2001 will be the year of the Linux... for really ignorant people. However, these people will be the "freelance programmers" (opensource community) whereas the iMac people were "ignorant." Both fit into "morons," generally.
I'm a little worried about people who consider a personal calandar app (Evolution) the same as Groupware.
Sure enough. get it from www.sunsite.edu/mirrors/helix. enjoy!
What are the pros and cons of Enlightenment VS. sawmill?
I completely agree. It's also irritating because it's so obviously young, male, and ass-kicking. ie. the target demographics of The Matrix.
Which is strange, because what are they trying to accomplish? Make linux easier for average users. Of windows, I guess. A good number of those people (a majority, I'd say) do not fit into the above-mentioned demographic. So who exactly are they targeting their website at? Their product?
Give'em time, I suppose, but when you really start publicizing, when you really have a "product" to "sell", you will probably not want "helix code rocks" on the very front page.
Another thing that is strange is believe slashdotters (if I may generalize) are offended, sometimes vocally so, by the insipid hand-holding of typical Windows dialog boxes. Well, the one with screenshots was pretting fucking irritating too, but I sure don't see anyone complaining. To give them credit though, that last panel does make a mention of the program to run to update, *as root*. All that hard work, for naught! Oh well, that's a bug (I mean, something like, "click the Administrator button, then click the Update Gnome button" would probably be better).
(and please, moderators, open your minds, and don't mark stuff down simply because it criticizes linux or gnome, for god's sake)
in the case of gtk+, the casts DO insure correctness, because in debug builds, the gtk+ type casting macros do runtime type identification.
I'm not saying that's a super great happy feature, but like you say, a necessary evil in C, and it's at least better to have the library/toolkit give the programmer a bit of help rather than just blindly casting with no type checking at all. And when your program is complete, you disable the runtime type checking, and it goes faster. Which is actually an advantage of C++: if you use RTTI in C++ (using the dynamic_cast operator), I don't think there is any way of disabling the checking in non-debug builds. At least, it would be a compiler-specific option. Of course, in a well designed C++ program, you should not be using too much RTTI, but it's impossible in general to avoid it totally.
This article about Helix Code explains what they're doing better than nat's letter. Their next product, Evolution, like a chance to throw MS off my desktop as well as my server.
What can be easier then installing a debian package?
/usr/ports/x11/gnome;make install
ever tried the ports collection on a *BSD system?
cd
The advantages? uses standard tgz files, can be used for automated building of source packages as well as downloading and installing binary packages. Easy to maintain and change makefiles (which happen to be a knda standard, just like tgz) and it works with the original source/binary tarbals from the creators of the package, so no need to repackage it ffor each and every distribution.
.debs are probably the better distribution specific package format for Linux operating systems... They do still have the huge drawback of being a platform specific format (tho its open source and relatively easy to port to other platforms, it is designed for debian and not for general usage)
Combine this with cvs and you get automatic updates, easy installation and configuration, and all that without needing anything platform or even distribution specific from the author of the package you want to install.
Of course it requires your distribution to maintain and ship their own ports collection since thats what contains the distribution specific parts.. but since that can be done by people who run that software I don't see any problems there.
The GUI and base libraries used for the install have hardly been audited for something as foolhardy as being run with root priviledges.
Which is actually an advantage of C++: if...
er, make that a disadvantage of C++.
Check the URL he's linking to. More crap.
This is typically done by clicking on the "Has Focus" button in Glade (or calling the appropiate Gtk+ routine if you do your dialog boxes in C).
I personally use Alt-/ to complete for me while coding GNOME apps. I find the long identifiers are very useful to maintain the code and easily understand what is going on.
If you rather use C++ than the C bindings of Gtk+, you can do this by using the excellent Gtk-- library. This one wraps the whole Gtk+ in a C++ friendly way.
Miguel.
This is a service that we are providing to the GNOME user community: a place where they can get their latest favorite GNOME applications and toys compiled and customized for their particular Linux flavor.
We will be adding support for a few other Unix systems in the near future (notably Debian and FreeBSD and most likely Solaris).
But as the web page says, this is only one of the things we are doing at Helix. And where we will be colaborating with our sister company Eazel.
Best wishes,
Miguel.
That's a joke, right? Leading in hype perhaps.
Pretty. Shame it sucks hard. Maybe it would suck less if it actually installed. Suck Suck Suck.
That being said. This is just a service to the community to help them try, upgrade and use GNOME. We want to lower the usage barrier for end-users, and this is a first step towards doing this.
Sure, many of us will continue to compile our own packages.
When Nautilus is ready for prime-time, the Helix GNOME distribution will include it as well. That being said, the team at Eazel and the team at Helix are cooperating to bring the best desktop to the end users. We concetrate on the productivity applications, they concentrate on the desktop.
Best wishes,
Miguel.
If you do not trust us, then you have to stick to compile your own code (which is definetly an option). But not everyone knows, wants to know, or has the time to do this.
And even then, what guarantees you that the source code does not contain a trojan? Or a security hole? In this case, you have to read every single line of code before you actually use it. In this case, even fewer people are going go trough this process.
It really boils down to who you trust.
Best wishes,
Miguel.
Free Software companies do not work around by selling licenses to the intelectual property they own. These kind of companies need to find out alternate schemes for producing money than depending on government regulations that will protect them (from software piracy for example).
Free Software companies are in the support and services business. There are many different kinds of support and services you can offer around free systems. Selling boxes is just one of them. But consider this: even if only one in every hundred users buys a copy from you, think about all the potential users of free software in the world: it is inmense (only a tiny fraction of the world population has chosen an operating system, less than 1%, John Maddog has the real number).
We believe that GNOME is going to be everywhere in the future, and that Helix will be a key element in the success of GNOME.
Best wishes,
Miguel.
It is Bonobo component activation via directory services. Essentially it allows you to launch any bonobo component just either my clicking on the file in the file manager, panel, evolution (the mail client), or any other bonobo activated application. The associates are handled via MIME types, so now you can edit a gnumeric/excel spreadsheet in your email program.
Its called spidermonkey since the spidermonkeys legs are so long and can pull many things together, at once exactly what this technology is going to do for bonobo objects, documents and applications.
Its cool, but Helix really should not be so secretive, its one hell of a conspiracy theory about something dosen't really need it. Maybe Helix should forget this I'm in the cabal so I'm cool bullshit and have open access to all APIs. Heaven forbid Helix fork GNOME (oops didn't they already do that, with the "Helix GNOME Desktop".
Watch out folks, commercialization of GNOME is coming.
I find it strange that the GNU/FSF sponsored distribution is not supported by the GNU desktop. Could there be some form of schism between the two camps?
And what the hell is wrong with marketing? I mean, it's the one thing that Linux seriously lacks in. We need more marketing, dude!
This looks great, but why aren't Helix a part of the original GNOME projects. Aren't GNOME interested in the Helix improvements? If I understand things right the Helix GNOME distribution is the original GNOME packages + some extras, and Helix developers are working on the basic GNOME packages anyway. So why different distributions?
Come to think of it,
- Debian does not support KDE
- GNOME does not support Debian
The future looks grim for this distribution.
see the subject: Helixcode Launched, Gnome Packages Availible
>According to the article Helixcode is only available for certain Linux
>distributions. This shows the need for Linux to be standardized.
Spare us please. Nothing's stopping "certain distributions" from adopting *.rpm or *.deb as a package mangager. The standard package manager for linux will be most likely a hybrid/merger of the deb and rpm package managers that'll be backwards compatable with both.
Maybe they should let someone else decide whether it "rocks". I'm not at all convinced that this project "rocks". The fact that they have to assure us right up front that it "rocks" makes me suspect that it doesn't "rock" in the slightest.
I pity this, I will look sometime later.
Bizar technology?
Why are there no debian packages ? Because Debian is in the Minority, and these guys dont have all the resources and time in the world... they are trying to grab the largest audience they can, and there are 100x as many machines running rpm as there are apt.
.tar.gz (sure they could have used .deb)..
Redhat, Suse, Mandrake, Caldera, Phat, LinuxOne Distro(thanx Jcouto, heh), plus remember that story a few weeks ago about linux at universities, Notice how 90% of the university distros were redhat based... it reduces the complexity a huge amount to upgrade 150 machines with rpm than
.deb is not the right choice for Helix, probably never will be at this point in the game.
This is really a pity.
Eeek, I want my old gtk colors back! This is too dark! Does anyone have a gtkrc file I could use to fix this?
--
Ski-U-Mah!
Stop the MPAA
Possibly exposing the depth of my newbietude here:
How does/will the Helix Code desktop cooperate, coexist, or conflict with Nautilus and the like?
For all the whiners, why don't you download the code FIRST, try it out, and THEN post? I mean, I know it sounds crazy, but maybe you would like to see what they are doing before you sound off with your opinion about what they are doing?
As for me, I'm glad they are doing this! I saw the announcements for gnome-core-1.5, but I was hesitant to try it out since I wasn't sure how it would interact with the rest of my environment. Thanks to HelixCode, I now am running the latest gnome, with all the new goodies. And it IS worth trying--some great stuff in here.
I must say that the "menu" panel is quite cool. I just wish I could figure out how to change the clock to 24 hours :-)
One gotcha: the new install did not handle my old configuration well. I must have done something mean to my session or panel config in the past, because it kept screwing up on load. Some vi hacking made that go away. I still think the new code was worth it, even with my isolated problems!
"Doubt your doubts and believe your beliefs." -- Switchfoot, Ode to Chin
The packages are meant to be an upgrade... so you don't have to uninstall your current GNOME.
You probably need to also download the packages.xml file and put it in the same directory as the RPMs.
The same thing happend to me. d/l'ed the installer, everything went smooth. I logged in and got the message that a panel is already running do i want to start another. No matter what I choose I can not get any panel to run. It's driving me nuts. Is there Anyone out that that knows how to fix this. I have been digging through config files for a while and still nothing.
So to people thinking about installing this use caution.
FYI: I am running Redhat 6.0
from the faq on the website:
What is SpiderMonkey?
SpiderMonkey is the code name for the Helix GNOME Desktop.
Their screenshots look nice, which (sawmill?) theme do they use?
Then you have all the power of the gtk+ widget architecture with the convient syntax of C++. No long names, nicely mapped as STL concepts, and a tutorial.
--Karl
- the article on Wide Open News says the Evolution mail client will be able to display Microsoft Word, Excel, and PowerPoint attachments;
- KOffice is one of the most promoted advantages of the new KDE 2.0 (and current 1.12), and Gnome has for a long time followed in the footsteps of KDE (not intended as an insult);
- There is no comparable GTK-based office productivity suite.
Clearly, then, [I cannot choose the glass in front of you, and] SpiderMonkey is an office productivity suite with word processor, spreadsheet, presentation, and other components.C'mon folks, it's not a new kind of bagel spread. It's gotta be a software product built on GTK that fills a gaping hole in Linux users' desktop needs. What else could it be?
sigh... i was looking forward to installing this :) but i cant get the installer to work
;), i was just curious if anyone else is having the same problems i am?
:)
'Unable to parse mirror listing' is all i get when i select a mirror site, i was able to get all of the rpms, but the installer wont let me click Next when i select the local directory, aarrgg..
I know this should be sent to the helix support site (which is quite slashdotted right now
If it means anything, the GNOME installer looks really cool
Cybie! aka Ralph Bonnell
ah, that helped thanx.
apparently you needs everything to be in a helix/distributions/Red_Hat_6/ directory...
note: allmirrors.xml, mirrors.xml, installer-latest-intel do not need to be in that 'local media' path... now i can have funfunfun
Cybie! aka Ralph Bonnell
needs = need
O:)
Cybie! aka Ralph Bonnell
I don't use GNOME because I don't like the usability of GTK. An example: when I get a window with as only widget a text box, this box is not active
You can't have a window with only a text box widget. Why? Because the window is a widget. There's a container widget of some type there, and then inside of that, you'll have a text box. You'll probably have some buttons there, too. Remember that those are also widgets.
The problem you describe has nothing to do with the toolkit. It'd be difficult for the toolkit to go about making decisions about what should have focus, and being wrong about that could be dangerous. The programmer is responsible for deciding what widget has the default focus. Blame the author, not the toolkit : )
Another question: aren't the function names much too long? Why all those casts? Doesn't that come from the C choice. I'm not a grat programmer, but that scarces me. I'd prefer C++ for the UI
The function names are hardly longer than those in many other toolkits. It doesn't seem to bother those of us who use GTK+, anyway. I'd call it a non-issue. The casts help insure correctness. If you're making a mistake with your objects, you'll be informed by debugging messages. And as for C++... it's a great language, but it's a lot more difficult to link against other languages. Just look at the number of binding for GTK+ vs. QT. There's a lot of flexibility there. I'm sure if you look through the linux kernel archives, you'll see why C++ is discouraged in the kernel. The same reasons apply to a lot of low level libraries, like libc. I think using C for GTK+ was absolutely the way to go.
Unless I'm mistaken there was something recently about Redhat teaming up with Realsoftware to release RealPlayer 7.0 to linux within the next 3 months or something like that, so the lack of support for RealAudio should cease to be an issue, if it really is one even now.
Let's hope that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space 'Cause there's bugger-all down here on Earth.
Well, it downloaded okay, installed okay, logged in okay...
my applet panel chorks. no happy footprint icon, no icons at all... just chork.
Logging out by 'kill -9 X' sucks...
Now to figure out how to fix this...
CIA Industries - Running the world for fun and profit
Also obscurity of binaries (through lack of source) does not gives, IMO, better secutiry. It gives less, since you may not be able to trust the producer of the binary. And not know if they went ahead and added secret backdoors without your knowing. At least if you have the source, you could check for secret backdoors.
Well, I've been poking around at the various sites during the day, and I'm kinda disappointed to see that only the helixcode.com's server has the SRPM files available. And, as those who've tried to visit it today can attest, it's slower than tar flowing uphill. I tried to start downloading, and I was getting ~1K/sec on a fast pipe.
Regular GNOME gets a nice kick in the pants when I rebuild source RPMS with -mcpu=i686 -O6 - I'd like to get a chance to play with this a little.
Hmm.... reminds me of Windows Update, Smart Update, and ActiveX (to some extent).
Yeah, a better idea would be to download the shell script, read it, then run it.
--Kneel
indierock / punkrock band photos and more... http://www.digitaldefection.net
*shrug*
Ok. I disagree, but I'm not going to try and convince you otherwise, since I'm sure you've heard all the arguments before (I'd be surprised if you haven't) and I doubt anything I can say will change your mind at this point.
But either way, I suspect that Helix plans on making money in much the same way as Red Hat has.
And for the record, I consider it paying for convenience. And I've paid for Red Hat (more than once). And I plan on paying for Helix.
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think you just crossed it.
--
- Sean
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think I just crossed it.
- Sean
"The remote server refuses to perform this request."
Hmmm... seems like they plugged that one pretty quickly!
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think you just crossed it.
--
- Sean
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think I just crossed it.
- Sean
Okay, Red Hat is a commercial concern. But I continue to fail to understand how they are going to make money with Linux.
Do they plan to sell a shrink wrapped box on the shelves of Fry's? Why in the world should I buy it when it's already available on (insert FTP site here)? Are they only counting on the ignorant for sales? And if it seriously becomes so bloated that people won't download it, why not just get a $2 CD from Cheapbytes instead?
Or do they plan to go IPO and rake in cash from ignorant investors instead?
Or do they plan to make money through support? I don't think so, unless they're truly machiavellian. Consider that the better they make their product the less support it will need. If this is to be the easiest to use operating system, simple enough even for your grandmother, who's going to need support?
Or are they going to create closed source addons for Linux and sell those instead? This would be highly unusual (and hypocritical) since a lot of Linux components come from GNU.
The only thing I can think of is so they can sell manuals. So why then are they a software company instead of a publishing house?
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think you just crossed it.
--
- Sean
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think I just crossed it.
- Sean
Where are the Debian packages?
Maybe I can save some fellow Caldera users some time ...
.xml file.
Despite what the above article states, it looks like there is no Caldera OpenLinux support yet. The go-gnome script exits with a message stating that the version of rpm Caldera is using is too old, and to download the packages manually.
However, when trying to get a list of Caldera packages from the web page, it breaks with a "file not found" message. Looking at the directories manually shows that although a "distributions/Caldera" directory exists, it is empty except for an
Maybe HelixCode should remove Caldera from the list of distributions they claim to support until such time as such support is ready!
This sort of packaging and ease of use is
essential if Linux is to succeed as a mainstream
desktop-OS.
Gnome is great, but installing source-packages
or even RPMs is not for your average windowsuser.
Helixcode as I understand is also a part of
the gnome-development.
The desktop looks very professional, very slick
and very inviting.
I'll try this
It doesn't bother me that HelixCode doesn't have debian packages because from what I read, all it does it keep updated packages for gnome applications and simplify building of gnome. Debian already does this. How much more simple can it be than "apt-get install task-gnome-apps"?
What the heck are you using. Slackware 0.01 or Debian 0.0000001 or RedHat -infinity?
And yes I could get the installer to work and download the whole shebang in 4 hours! Thank U very much. It simply looks great!
Kill Microsoft? No! Just hire their GUI guys!
A very good justification for the inclusion of a VB like protocol, yet the second concern of the above poster, the registry, was not addressed. The MS registry is the "Mother Of Evil", the "Heart of Darkness", etc. I, and hopefully others, would cringe at a similar thing in GNOME. Yet if there was a well thought out and understandable implementation of a central repository of configuration info, I could be swayed. Just don't call it the registry and make it accessible.
JM
Oink, Oink!!
Why the hell are they releasing their own distribution?!?!?! Miguel (head of HelixCode) RUNS Gnome. What's wrong with just using gnome's official distribution? It is like Miguel is forking his own project unofficially.
Also, beware that gnome will be adding Visual Basic support and a registry soon. These are not unconfirmed rumors (one was told to me by Miguel). Since I don't feel like the GNOME people are innovative and I feel like they are trying to emulate Microsoft as closely as they can, I have stopped using gnome.
I downloaded the whole helix installation through their nifty gui, and it came up with a message - "Not enough space, please free up 45.9 MB".
So I emptied out 150 mbs, and the program proceded to re-download the whole damn thing again, and then said "Not enough space, free up 45.9mb." GAWD DAMIT.
----------------------------------------------
I don't really mind double posts on
Open Source Software does have a tendency to take a while to get written when done mainly by volunteers, and if you have a specific need it may not be filled by the community in general. Buy hiring these fellows, you now have very competent GNOME programmers who are going to work towards your deadlines and write what you need. Not something that might be sort of what you need, and whenever they get around to finishing it.
treke
Does Helixcode install any specific window manager, or just install Gnome over whatever your running?
All I know is that Spidermonkey Island is the name of a floating Island in the original tales of Dr. Doolittle.
Because users who would check the downloaded files to see if they contain security holes will be experienced enough not to follow those instructions, and will know how to download the script and read it before running it. Users who don't see a security risk in those instructions will not have the experience necessary to see if the downloaded script does anything evil.
I just feel that it's really interesting to see Gnome getting so much support lately. This should be a really nice product when it's done. I've been using Gnome 1.1.5 (which is what this thing really is) ever since it came out a few days ago, and let me tell you Gnome is definitely maturing. One of the greatest criticisms of Gnome in the past has been that it's too unstable. And the critics were right...Gnome was too unstable. Well, it's good to see that this "unstable" 1.1.5 version of Gnome seems to be the most stable Gnome to date. I've been torturing it for a few days now, and I can't get it to give in. Other than one bug in the panel, I personally have yet to see anything wrong with this release.
Excellent point. Slashdot readers are generally a smart bunch. We know everything about computers, and it all seems so easy to us. But sometimes we forget that not all people are as quite as computer savvy. I mean the vast majority of people out there have absolutely no idea what libraries or compilers are. While I may like to compile my own apps and play with code, almost everyone that I know just wants to be able to sit in front of a computer, do whatever work they need to do, and nothing else. They don't want to play with what's under the hood. Helix Code is obviously aiming this product at those normal everyday people, and not people like you and I. They're trying to make Linux usable for more people. And from what I've seen, they've done a good job at it.
Did it ever occur to you that if things are breaking up all over the place, then the problem might be your computer, rather than the software? When I started clisp for the first time, I got an immediate segfault. I then went off and filed an important bug in the Debian bug tracking system. However, upon reboot it turned out that lots of files from all over my harddrive had gotten themselves corrupted. After fixing the errors and reinstalling clisp, it worked just fine. I still get lost clusters every time I fsck my harddrive, though--but this is most likely due to my computer being a pile of cheap crap.
From www.helixcode.com (when it is not /.-ed):
/.-ed, as of this writing).
Helix Code is an open source software company devoted to improving GNOME, the leading desktop environment for Linux.
Their product, as fas as I can tell, is called Helix GNOME installer. It's GPL-ed, and you can download the source from their ftp site (which is not yet
I am keen to install helix-gnome on my RH 6.1 intel box here, but I would feel saver if I would knew beforehand wether I need to deinstall the standard RedHat Gnome RPMs or not? After a look at rpmfind it looks like the RPMs are named differently than the RedHat ones (the Helix ones all end with -hexlix-*). So I guess I probably need to deinstall everything first, right?
Hopefully Helix will have the time and energy to keep their packages up to date. If the installer/updater thing came with RedHat that would be fairly cool as well, then we wouldn't have to wait for Redhat to package up new GNOME stuff.
Another cool thing is that they will be including other apps that aren't that "core GNOME".
Note: I don't speak for the GNOME team. This is my understanding of what HelixCode mean by Helix GNOME.
I wonder if the researchers on the Genome project use GNOME because they're almost spelled the same...
Mike Roberto
- roberto@apk.net
-- AOL IM: MicroBerto
Berto
Are we doomed to keep a whole bunch of GTK script bindings even if a scripting language is only used by one application (e.g. rep by Sawmill)?
In my perfect world, all core applications share one scripting language and can work with each other...I'm ready to join any project that ports Sawmill to Guile. Is it a very difficult thing to accomplish?
Or is there any Python-scriptable WM? I'd like to at least try one as an alternative...
Good browsers available for Linux:
Streaming media. Well, we've got plenty of MP3 players. And I believe there's work underway on an MP4 player. Anything else, as far as I'm concerned, is a waste of time.
Yes, this is hostile. I'm generally hostile when replying to posts that, IMHO, shouldn't have been moderated up.
-RickHunter
--"We are gray. We stand between the candle and the star."
--Gray council, Babylon 5.
Thanks for your answer. It's sad the GTK programmers don't matter that much on usability then. I had the problem with GNOME, Gimp, others. And I never had it with a KDE/Qt program. This click needed to activate the obviously to use widget in w window is very annoying.
Let's say I, as a PHB, have chosen Linux distro "x" as my corporate desktop OS. Till now this would all apply to servers. Gnome is all about the desktop and therefor about user interface. To 95% of the computing public the UI is the computer. I have a special need that requires a solution -NOW. I can wait for an Open Source contributer to experience that same need and bang out the code or I can commission it. Regardless of what software architecture I'm using, custom code costs money. The only real difference between Open Source and Commercial models is the post-availability of said code. I want the code to dominate the world in my established field of business; I'm not a software distributer.
Why would someone pay for a CD of Helix? Why would someone pay for a CD of Red Hat?
There's a spider on your shoulder.
So I guess apologies are in order. In all seriousness, this was more of a case, I think, of me shooting my mouth off electronically. I was merely trying to be helpful, and I didn't stop to think of all ramifications. Thank you for making me stop and think about this sort of thing a little more. Complicated world we live in, no?
--
We have fought the AC's, and they have won.
In any case, point taken, upon reflection.
BTW, was the last parenthetical remark flamebait, or a troll? You, sir, obviously disagree with the GPL and/or don't understand it. The spirit of it is to encourage sharing -- it starts out, even before the body of the text, "Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim copies of this license document, but changing it is not allowed." The preamble continues: "The licenses for most software are designed to take away your freedom to share and change it. By contrast, the GNU General Public License is intended to guarantee your freedom to share and change free software--to make sure the software is free for all its users. ...To protect your rights, we need to make restrictions that forbid anyone to deny you these rights or to ask you to surrender the rights." (emphasis mine)
Admittedly, my original post is in violation of (both implicit and explicit) copyright law, but is it morally reprehensible to you? And since you bring up the GPL, do you find it in violation of that spirit? (Don't bother pointing out that that's irrelevant since the quoted text isn't under the GPL; I know that. I only bring it up because you trotted out the GPL when it was convenient for you (since, from your tone, I infer that you don't like it) to use as a weapon to bludgeon me with.)
--
We have fought the AC's, and they have won.
Front page:
Helix Code Rocks. Helix Code is an open source software company devoted to improving GNOME , the leading desktop environment for Linux. We want to make GNOME the best desktop on the planet, and make it available to everyone.
GNOME is a complete desktop environment, providing everything from the nuts and bolts to the large-scale productivity applications upon which businesses and individuals rely daily. GNOME is here to make the desktop free. Helix Code is here to make GNOME better.
We believe that software should be humanizing. Using a computer should be about what you want, not what your computer needs. Only four percent of the world's population has chosen a desktop environment. That leaves a lot of room for GNOME.
Seriously.Our first task is the Helix GNOME Desktop: all of the GNOME software, tested, packaged and ready to install into your existing Linux or Unix system. The Helix Code desktop team works hard to keep its GNOME packages up-to-date, stable and reliable. Helix Code is providing Helix GNOME as a service to the GNOME community, which can count on always having updated, stable packages for its users and developers.
In fact, we've just released our March preview of the Helix GNOME desktop. Why not have a look?
To go with that, Helix Code is building a full suite of productivity applications, starting with Evolution and Gnumeric.
Evolution is a groupware package that serves as your personal mailer, calendar and addressbook. From the ground up, Evolution is designed for today's Internet user, easily tracking contacts, scheduling appointments and managing mail on a global scale. And Evolution is built for modern communication needs, interoperating with existing groupware applications and effortlessly handling gargantuan mail loads.
Gnumeric is our fully-featured Excel-compatible spreadsheet.
Free software is about the evolution of software. Helix Code is here to accelerate that evolution. Buckle up.
Navigation links from the front page:
Home
Helix GNOME desktop
Applications
Technology
Sales and Services
Press Room
About us
From /desktop/:
Preview Release!
Since the beginning of the year, the Helix Code team has been working steadily to test, polish and package the entire GNOME desktop. The result is the first preview release of the Helix GNOME desktop, containing nearly 80 packages. Check out the press release or the email announcement.
Install Helix GNOME Now! Updates
As we produce updates, new packages will be available from this web page. If you want to be notified of new packages and security fixes, simply subscribe to our helix-updates mailing list.
If you would like to host a mirror of our distribution site, please email us!
--
We have fought the AC's, and they have won.
Not true again:
In your source:
#ifdef DEBUG
#define down_cast(TYPE, VALUE) dynamic_cast<TYPE>(VALUE)
#else
#define down_cast(TYPE, VALUE) static_cast<TYPE>(VALUE)
...and in the makefile:
ifeq(BUILD_TYPE,DEBUG)
COMPILER_OPTIONS = --enable-rtti
else
COMPILER_OPTIONS = --disable-rtti
endif
Hope this helps.
You said that C++ forces you to pay for RTTI whether you like it or not and I showed you that that's not the case. You get upset too easily.
plain C context:
//need to reserve space for the shape:
//need to reserve space for the shape:
/* implementation of width for rect */ }
/* implementation of width for Circle */ }
//need to reserve space for the next shape:
struct rect {
int height, width;
};
struct circle {
int r;
};
int getRectWidth(struct rect* r);
int getCircleWidth(struct circle* c);
USAGE:
void rectFoo(struct rect* r)
{
int w = getRectWidth(r);
}
void circleFoo(struct circle* c)
{
int w = getCircleWidth(c);
}
C++ context:
class Shape {
virtual int width() const= 0;
};
class Rect : public Shape {
int width() const {
};
class Circle : public Shape {
int width() const {
};
USAGE:
void foo(const& s )
{
int w = s.width();
}
Hopeuflly you can see straight away which syntax is shorter and more elegant in this case. And this is a trivial example of a common problem in a GUI toolkit. To abstract a set of items so they can be used more generically. The C names are longer because more information has to be conveyed. Unless you are willing to resort to void* hell you have to have two different functions in C to deal with two different shape types. C++ has only one and if the names are chose in the way they should be the flow of the code is more logical too. Back to the main topic though...
Since when are casts used ot insure correctness? Do you know what cast are? They are a sign of sloppy coding in C++ and a necessary evil in C because C doesn't support polymorphism. Casts don't insure anything. They are type conversion enforcements that are brute force compiler directives which force it to treat one type as a different data type. To continue our shape example in C this is a C "generic" getWidth function:void getShapeWidth(void* shape)
{
int w;
if( isRect(shape) ) { w = getRectWidth((struct Rect*)shape); }
else
if( isCircle(shape) ) { w =getCircleWidth((struct Circle*)shape); }
}
If you like this sort of approach you should spend less time reading slashdot and more time reading your OO course.
Here you are either grossly misinformed or you bought into the (misinformed) slashdot crowd views.Ever heard of extern "C"? It gives you _exactly_ the same functionality as C. binding to C++ code is no more difficult because the same linker is used for C++ and C. C++ decorates function names to allow for overloading and that's what extern "C" prevents. It allows C++ to import/export plain vanilla C functions. Naturally you can't overload the functions exported in such way but that's logical because you've removed the decoration from them. Did you? I did and the main technical one was that Linus is a C coder.
low level libraries, like libc... have to be developed in C because they are an integral part fo a *NIX system. It's a part of the spec! Nothing to do with size or efficiency.
Fuck the Karma and develop your own views. Learn about both languages and try doing at least one significant project in each. Just because Miguel De Icaza said that C rulez doesn't mean it holds true for evey situation in every case. In fact for what he chose to develop C very much sucks and he either realized it already or will realize it in the future.Lesson finished. Go home get some sleep and get those C++ books out and look again but beyond chapter 2 this time. Good luck.
Well from their screenshots page it looks like they are paying at least $10 per pancake in _profits_! So they could be paying $15 or higher! This can only mean that they'll shift the cost on to us to pay for "developer costs." With Miguel being a pancake eating machine, we could be in trouble. Now I don't know about you but where I'm from for $10 you should at least be getting 14 pancakes or so. :)
Eazel is working together closely with Helix Code - we often describe ourselves as 'sister companies'. It's exciting to see the Gnome community AND the Gnome industry grow. For example, it's terrific for Gnome (and, by extension, for Eazel) that there's now a definitive place to go for the 'latest and greatest and stable' Gnome environment. Bart Decrem, Eazel
Nice to have a windows manager again. I don't know if it had something to do with configuration, but Helix took a bite out of my Enlightenment/Gnome combination and found it tasty. If you are a total newbie, you might want to give this puppy a few more builds before installing.
You can (or, possibly, can't) find out more at http://spidermonkey.helixcode.com/.
The above server is referenced in their xml files.
There - clear as mud.
...j
I wish hehe. I'm just a 17 year old guy thats a tad too nosy when it comes to my favorite free software projects. Hey, you can hire me if you think I'm that good though.
kfort
with all these companies announcing gnome
enhancements, i wonder what the big picture
looks like?
any idea how these different projects will
work together? or do they have different
objectives? afaik, everyone is touting
"make gnome easier", but thats quite a
fuzzy term is it.
But the only thing I see interesting is the ease of updating. Or is there more that doesn't show up?
Downloaded everything. My first impression can be summed up in two works:
Segmentation fault
Oh well. I'm having a bad overall weekend: Linux has, for the first time, bit me. Sawmill upgrade is fscked up, lots of other things are breaking all over the place. ACK! A pal of mine called with his ruined NT machine (added a modem, won't boot anymore) so I guess its not so bad.
Sorry, off-topic. Has anyone got the package installer to work?
ZOMG I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS ON MACINTOSH VERSUS WINDOWS, VI VERSUS EMACS, AND HOW YOU'RE NOT A DORK
You are right in saying that having to package the same program n times because there exist n Linux distributions is annoying.
However I disagree with your comparison with the Unix situations. This comparison has been agressively fed to the press by Microsoft, although it is vastly inaccurate:
They are going to make money with support and contracts for development. It's really quite simple. As Gnome becomes increasingly popular, companies (and conceivably individuals) could pay them to make enhancements to the Gnome environment, or to write a specific application. In addition, they are Gnome experts and could field any support issue for a fee. They might also, as you suggest write manuals...
----
Celebrate the finer things in life
This is true of any package you download and install as root. The average user simply trusts that when he downloads something metioned on Freshmeat, su's, and installs the rpm or whatever, he isn't going to trash his system. And thus far I have yet to hear of anyone actually experiencing problems of this nature.
----
Celebrate the finer things in life
The answer is, you wouldn't, at least not likely. I think it is likely they will make most of their money with corporate contracts. For example, a small distribution wants to use Gnome as their default desktop. But they want it customized. Helix Code will do that for them for a fee, customizing any details they want. Maybe this company also wants them to write a wizard to set up networking or something. The possibilities are endless. The company pays Helix code to write them a customized desktop environment and even to write additional applications for it.
As for contracts, it sounds interesting. But ask yourself why a company would pay Helix to write an application that will be released for free when it is complete. The "free rider" problem inherent in this situation is enormous!
Maybe you aren't quite in tune with how Open Source business works. Do you have any idea how many people are paid to write open source (free) applications? And it actually works. Let's go back to the example of the distribution company. Let's call them GreenCap Linux. GreenCap is a new distribution. They like what they see with the Helix Desktop, but want a bit more. They pay Helix Code to customize the desktop to their specifications. They pay them to write a few small configuration tools (in the spirit of the RedHat control panel or something), wizards, that sort of thing. They pay the Gnome experts to write customized Gnome documentation for the GreenCap manual. There you have it. GreenCap outsourced a part of their product for a fee. They make the loss back and actually make profit when they sell their freely downloadable product in boxed form with support agreements, beautiful manuals, and some extra commerical applications. See how it works?
----
Celebrate the finer things in life
(humor warning
Okay that was fast as hell. I don't think I've seen something go down that hard in a long time.
Congrats to all involved in the world's most effective DoS attack.
"Fighting the underpants gnomes since 1998!" "Bruce Schneier knows the state of schroedinger's cat"
If Helix can come up with a new business model for Free Software, my hat will be off to them. This will be a much bigger boon to Free Software than Gnome. That Helix is even looking to make a profit is encouraging. Miguel earned major points in my book for just this alone. It gets pretty old when all you see are Free Software advocates who've never run a company telling others how they should run their business.
I suspect that several companies will attempt this, with most of them failing. But this is a free market economy, so either one will find it or it doesn't exist. I suspect that in five or ten years you will find that commercial Free Software will have found all of its niches, but that there will be some it can't utilize, and those will remain proprietary.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
Okay, support and contracts.
Why would I choose Helix Support, Inc. over Redhat or Linuxcare support. As an enterprise, doesn't it make much more sense to have a single support source like Linuxcare who would support Gnome and KDE and Linux and Apache and whatever else you needed support for. I also question the assumption that sales can be replaced by support. It's like declaring the skill of the developer to be valueless.
As for contracts, it sounds interesting. But ask yourself why a company would pay Helix to write an application that will be released for free when it is complete. The "free rider" problem inherent in this situation is enormous!
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
For $80, it is my firm opinion that Redhat is charging people for their ignorance. I predict that there will come a point when newbies will no longer be ignorant of what Free Software is, and will refuse to pay more than a few dollars for what is essentially a reprinting service.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
I wish you every bit of success, because you are sailing into uncharted waters. Just because I doubt the outcome of the voyage does not mean that I don't admire the courage of the captain.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
Just because I don't blindly accept every prediction given to me doesn't mean that I'm not in tune with Open Source business :-) Helix (and AbiSource) is doing something quite distinct from the other Open Source companies.
To take your GreenCap example, let's say that I am starting my own Open Source business. Let's call it YellowTop Linux. Why should I hire Helix as a development firm to create a new desktop for me, when I can spend zero dollars and use the one they made for GreenCap? This is what I meant by the "free rider" problem. Why pay the money when you know all of your competitors will receive your product for free?
Free Software may have rewritten the rules of software development, but it hardly touched the rules of economics and business. If you look at the Redhat IPO filings, they do not claim that they will profit in the long term by selling shrink wrapped boxes. I have no doubts that Helix will make money in the short term. Everything with the word "Linux" attached to it is certain of that. I just want to know how Helix is going to make its money in the long term.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
True,
On the other hand, I remember hearing that a board had only a limited amount of liability regarding the contents of the posts, provided that they were not excersizing editorial control, by removing even one post.
Since 'slashdot' itself never really removes any posts (even those moderated all the way down), I'm not sure how much liability they really have.
This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
"Q: What does Helix Code do?
A:Helix Code is an open source software company devoted to improving GNOME, the leading desktop environment for Linux. We want to make GNOME the best desktop on the planet, and make it available to everyone."
Reading isn't exactly your best talent is it?
If you mean what is Helix GNOME, it's a release of GNOME made by Helix Code....again not exactly rocket science to understand
Well, Arandir, it seems everyone else is answering a different question than you are asking (well, actually responding to a different comment if you want to be technical). Others and I can give you reasons that we think Helix Code exists and how *they* think they are going to make money. They probably want to stay small and leverage the free software community to keep ahead in development, this should keep costs down. They probably want to approach companies and set them up with GNOME for their business needs.
But this isn't what you are saying. Quite frankly, no one really knows much about how Free Software business works. The only real reference point is Red Hat who have been in business long enough and develop entirely free software.
You are quite right. If other companies can freely redistribute and sell Helix GNOME with its own additions (perhaps propietary) then what does Helix offer to the consumer that others don't?
Perhaps since this is free software we are talking about, that the various companies can cooperate instead of compete? That doesn't make much sense now that I think about it.
I'd like to think that as a company Helix can adapt to a very new business model (like Red Hat has been trying to do for the last billion years).
In summary I have to admit that there is plenty I don't know about business to know other ways of making money off of free software, or whether it's pointless. I don't think Miguel does either so maybe he should hire someone who does. But I think they are doing this even though the risk is so large is because the potential is so great.
Perhaps Red Hat would hire them for development?
But making money off of Free Software is something I support.
I don't know.
Seriously, this sort of thing should not get moderated up. It's the soul of redundancy, and it infringes on Helix's IP rights. Maybe they wouldn't mind. Maybe they would. I know a lot of sites that would. Helix probably isn't one of them, but that's hardly the point. You could actually be opening Slashdot up to liability by posting illegally. Just because there's a disclaimer at the bottom of the page, doesn't mean it's true -- Slashdot is not a common-carrier.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
If you want to read more about this, there's a story running concurrently on Wide Open News and sendmail.net that went live at 4:15 this morning. The gist of the story (from the sendmail.net front door): "The new GNOME binaries Helix Code rolled out today are the red carpet that its first application product, an HTML-capable email client called Evolution, will step onto in a few weeks. If users like what they see, it could be Helix Code that puts Linux on the consumer desktop. Paul Boutin spoke with Miguel de Icaza and Nat Friedman about it." Quotable quote (from Nat): "We plan to wipe Microsoft Outlook off the desktop."
Helixcode rpms are available on rpmfind both i386 and ppc packages are available here.
Hope this helps!
No one got beat up more often than the mimes of the old west!
RPM (featurefull but complex)
SLP (you gotta be joking)
I have to admit, creating RPMs was way more complex than I wanted, compared with creating [Slackware] TGZs.
And what functionality do SLPs give you that RPMs and DEBs don't?
[This message is not a flame, nor is it flame-retardant]
--
May contain traces of nut.
It's a very big deal for aspiring Linux users who aren't hands-on tech people. In fact, the less you know about Gnome, or even what Gnome is, the bigger a deal Helix Code is. Helix Code is creating a standard Gnome platform for Gnome-based applications to run on. For uses who don't download, compile, and install their own libraries, it's been hard to run Gnome apps. The pre-installed or CD Linux distributions have Gnome libraries that are way out of date, or out of whack with what the latest apps (Nautilus, Evolution, Gnumeric, etc) need to run. Helix Code will enable people to treat Gnome more like, say, Real Player or (dare I say it) Internet Explorer, where the necessarly DLL's can easily be kept up to date over the Net by users who don't even know what a DLL is. Except I trust Helix Code more than I do MS or RN with my computer. :-)
I wrote an article over the weekend for which Miguel and Nat explained to me their plans for World Domination through ease of use. I'm going to start using Evolution when it's officially released, because just having a *faster* email program that reads MS Office docs will make a world of difference.
Paul Boutin | writer for Slate, Wired, etc
I don't use GNOME because I don't like the usability of GTK. An example: when I get a window with as only widget a text box, this box is not active. Why do I have to click in this only widget to tell the computer that's the one I want to use? Raph PS1: This is just my personal opinion, I don't want everybody to agree with me... PS2: Another question: aren't the function names much too long? Why all those casts? Doesn't that come from the C choice. I'm not a grat programmer, but that scarces me. I'd prefer C++ for the UI.
Linux is losing ground every day to the windows platform in terms of web browsing - windows has a better browser (IE5) than anything available for linux, and every manner of streaming player is available for the platform. How many media players does linux support? RealPlayer on linux is a joke.
There's an Eazel mirror at http://mirror1.eazel.com/helix. Bart
Their server was struggling when "gnome.org" posted the link. With Slashdot posting as well they're down for the count. Did anybody get any mirrors? Please post-em if you have-em.
It is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail. - Abraham Maslow
I agree that a decent browser is important, but keep in mind that Linux distributions will start shipping with a kick-ass browser (Mozilla) within a few months. Windows users will have to struggle through a download in order to get a state-of-the-art browser.
I suppose streaming media is important for some people, but I don't really care. A non-proprietary standard for streaming media will emerge (maybe already has - I don't follow this stuff) and Linux will support it well.
For my personal use Linux is a great desktop. My business clients will start switching to Linux desktops once 1) Mozilla is released, 2) Corel Office Suite is released.
Average home users will switch when either 1) Linux gets more games, or 2) Playstations become so popular that people don't bother with PC games anymore. I suspect that both of these will occur to some extent over the next year and by next summer Linux will be in homes in a big way. If 1999 was the year of the iMac, 2001 will be the year of Linux Desktops.
It is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail. - Abraham Maslow
In that case, I have to conclude that it's possible to create an RPM by staring at the screen and willing it into existence.
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
RealPlayer on linux is a joke
RealAudio is a joke anyway, so the player being a pile of clinker is no great loss. The real lingua-franca for audio on the web, MP3, is very well supported under Linux.
As for IE5, I have to admit it is a pleasant experience using it ... Mozilla has a lot to catch up with in this department, but I'm confident that it will. At that point it will be MicroSoft who will be playing catch up, as I'm sure IE is going to be held up by it's origins in the pre-HTML 4.0 era.
Chris Wareham
Wow, Nat, you made the front page of Slashdot! (And a wicked cool app, but I've got weird priorities.)
/. hell, some ObContent:
OK, so that this doesn't get moderated to
Helix Code was originally known as "International GNOME Support."
Hey, that counts as content, right?
-Waldo
Go check it here: http://helixcode.com/desktop/faq.php3
--
GroundAndPound.com News and info for martial artists of all styles.
According to the article Helixcode is only available for certain Linux distributions. This shows the need for Linux to be standardized. Without standardization Linux will suffer the same fate as Unix and will lose the advantages that it has had.
Also I see that the site has been Slashdotted. Will Helixcode look exactly the same as GNOME? Or has the interface radically changed?
US businesses that currently accept chip and PIN/signature
Okay, Helix is a commercial concern. But I continue to fail to understand how they are going to make money with GNOME.
Do they plan to sell a shrink wrapped box on the shelves of Fry's? Why in the world should I buy it when it already comes with (insert distro here)? Even if it didn't come with my distro, I can still download it. Are they only counting on the ignorant for sales? And if it seriously becomes so bloated that people won't download it, why not just get a $2 CD from Cheapbytes instead?
Or do they plan to go IPO and rake in cash from ignorant investors instead?
Or do they plan to make money through support? I don't think so, unless they're truly machiavellian. Consider that the better they make their product the less support it will need. If this is to be the easiest to use desktop, simple enough even for your grandmother, who's going to need support?
Or are they going to create closed source addons for GNOME and sell those instead? This would be highly unusual (and hypocritical) since the founder of Helix is a member of GNU.
The only thing I can think of is so they can sell manuals. So why then are they a software company instead of a publishing house?
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
There are still a few shreds of intelligible meaning left in this "FAQ", let Hemos edit it up a little.
Seriously, I read the whole thing about three times and I can't figure out what "Helic Code" is. Here are some quotes:
"Helix GNOME is a service..."
"Helix GNOME is an add-on..."
"Helix GNOME will be available on CD..."
As far as I can tell, it's an automatic package updater for GNOME only...? Yeah, that sounds useful.
--
Here is the result of your Slashdot Purity Test.
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
The helix-sites are swamped right now,
but there is a mirror of the distribution
at RPMfind:
ftp://rpmfind.net/linux/helix/distributions/
I don't understand why so many people are giving these guys flack.
A) They are improving GNOME.
B) They are polishing it so it doesn't look like some hacker project that's still in development. That may be the case, but face it, in the real world, polish counts for a lot.
C) They're making it easy to install. You click on the exe, it runs the installer, you choose your options and you install the damn thing. It may not be the best way to distribute a system to hundreds of users over a network, but is the best way for the average user to install it. Say what you will, but clicking on the setup program is a lot easier than opening up an xterm and compiling it, or gathering all the dependencies, putting them into a directory, typing rmp -U *.rpm, then fucking with GDM to get the thing working. While we are on the topic of dependencies, PEOPLE HATE DEPENDENCIES. Sure the sysadmin might appreciate the flexiblity, but the average user with only a 56K connection to the internet is going to hate having to hunt for all the packages and dependencies and install them individually. Whats wrong with putting them all in one rpm? Its harder to hunt for all the dependencies, then sit there and click on each one to download it, than it is to hit download on one big rpm, and have it just not install duplicate stuff when setup is run. You might save a few megs of dl on the first way, but most people will want to just leave the thing on overnight. (15 meg on a 56 K modem takes HOURS) They're doing all these good things, so whats your (collective) problem?
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
This is a great chance for people to try out the latest gnome-core....including such "enhancements" as the gnome-weather applet and a Macintosh-like menubar (the legendary foobar). Slurp it down boys and girls!
-nulity-
I am nothing.
I don't know if everyone understood the last question, but maybe I can add something.
At linuxworld in NYC last Feb, I hung out at the Helix Code booth. I was chatting with some of the dudes from there and asked him what he did. He said he works on Spidermonkey. Whats that? I asked. Well he wouldn't tell me for anything. nadda info.
So I took the rest of the conference to ask them whenever I saw someone new at their booth. They really clam up when you mention spidermonkey, start mumbling about NDA's and asking where I heard that name.
So now everyone knows the name, can anyone find out anything more about this secret project? Whatever it is they have a few developers working full time on it.
kfort
Linux users need to insist on secure binaries which cannot be tampered with by rogue government agencies!
Without the obscurity that binaries provide, how can linux hope to become a trusted server platform when facing competition from products such as Windows 2000 ? It cant!
Insist on binary only releases today!
Umm... here's their installation procedure for newbies seeking a simple upgrade:
/; rm -rf *' to the code?
The simplest way to install the Helix GNOME Desktop is to use the Helix GNOME
Installer. You can automatically download and start the installer in three easy steps:
1.Open a terminal window.
2.Using the su command, become superuser:
$ su
Password: [Enter your root password here]
3.Start go-gnome by typing the following command or cutting and pasting it
into your terminal:
lynx -source http://spidermonkey.helixcode.com/go-gnome |sh
In other words: Become root, download some file from an insecure web address, and pipe it through 'sh'. I'm no security guru, but this is THE WORST LINUX SECURITY ADVICE I'VE EVER HEARD. You should NEVER, EVER run untrusted code as root without examining it first. What if some malicious cracker breaks into one of the mirrors and adds the line 'cd
They need to use a secure certificate to transmit the first part of the script, which should then download the packages AND test their MD5 checksums. Average users can be excused from testing MD5's for every package, but this is an automatic script that is backed by Helix Code's reputation, so they should go the extra mile (it's more like a tenth of a mile in this case). If the user doesn't have MD5 or support for secure certificates, then you can fall back to something simpler, with a warning message.
--JRZ