Snowden did not lie, he just uncovered what was the truth.
You have the basic question wrong. Snowden revealed classified information. It isn't a question of true or false, it is a question of who is legally allowed to see it. He compromised American intelligence operations, and those of allied nations. Snowden broke trust, and people are confused about it.
The problem is the NSA was too zealous in its gathering techniques.
Snowden arrogantly undermined democratic principles and acted like a vigilante.
The problem is that there doesn't seem to be any law that creates those "crimes," only rhetoric. Law doesn't work like that in general. Do you want to face a judge or police office that only relies on the "law written in their heart"? Or do you prefer the law as written? We're constantly told here that paying taxes is part of the price of civilization, well so is obeying laws that you might not agree with. (Unless you want to make the case that we are dealing with some sort of crime against humanity here.)
If he had gone to the IG or Congress he might have eventually lost his job, but "a bullet to the head"? No.
I think you make a good point there. Of course there is the flip side in which it may be possible to keep big ticket items in service longer since replacement parts could be less of an issue. It could be a boon to people doing restoration or maintenance work on older equipment, but it may also eat into sales of new equipment.
And then there is the impact on logistics. If more fabrication of parts can be done locally it will likely reduce the total volume of shipping, for at least some part of the supply chain. That could increase the cost of shipping, although fuel consumption might go down. Could there be an impact like email has had on the Post Office?
Hard to say what the total impact will be, other than things will be different. And you are right in stating that it isn't always an easy transition.
This is great news for prototyping! Hopefully it will help kindle innovation, new companies, new industries, manufacturing, and the economy. Let the innovation commence.
I would think it could be pretty handy for various scientific uses as well.
And the proper place to take those allegation for investigation and possible prosecution would have been the Inspector General or Congress. That didn't happen.
I see your point of confusion, you think that the NSA has been involved with, to use your phrase, "vast, incredibly illegal spying." That isn't true. Nothing that the NSA has been doing has been shown to violate US law, at least that I'm aware of. Snowden, on the other hand, appear to basically have admitted to violating:
18 U.S.C. 793 : US Code - Section 793: Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information. 18 U.S.C. 798 : US Code - Section 798: Disclosure of classified information
He may also have committed a violation of:
18 U.S.C. 794 : US Code - Section 794: Gathering or delivering defense information to aid foreign government
The most likely punishment would be a long prison sentence. In the highly unlikely event that he would be subject to the death penalty, the current Federal method of execution is lethal injection, not firing squad.
I'm not sure how you got this wrong, but lets take it from the beginning.
In the past Iran was an ally of the West. It was legal to sell arms and other goods to it. That is how it acquired American arms like the F-14. After the revolution the Iranian government become hostile, and eventually was sanctioned. There were various companies that violated those sanctions, including European companies. Knowing about those violations is a legitimate question for intelligence agencies to investigate.
The sanction regime has not been lifted as you erroneously state, but it has been modified. Either way it would be a legitimate issue to investigate if countries were selling goods to Iran that could be used to further its nuclear program or for military use.
Espionage could include both the question of what nuclear material is being sold to Iran, and the trade secrets in its manufacture. I have little doubt there is activity to determine what is being sold to Iran, but the claims are that trade secrets are being stolen, for which there doesn't seem to be any proof.
He deserves a ticker tape parade and to be listed among the great patriots who sacrificed personal safety and comfort in the name of liberty.
I've been wondering what the view of the Canadian left would be. I think we can probably agree that he will become known as a great Russian patriot although I didn't realize that Russia was lacking in creature comforts. Well, let's hope he didn't teach the next cell how to avoid detection.
It's kind of disappointing to see you stop short like that. As long as you're freeing inventing things you should claim that they are a conspiracy to form a world government for the.000001% that will then collect the sweat of the poor to form an artificial lake to float their boats for their yacht parties where endangered species will be served for dinner.
The difference being the American armaments were received before the revolution, and when it was legal.
The point being that intelligence agencies can have a legitimate interest in commercial activity besides theft of trade secrets. I will also point out that not every firm has honored sanctions.
Sanctions on Iran have been reduced, and many European firms are anxious to resume their work there. Do you think it is possible that some of them will be assisting Iran with military projects, or providing dual use goods that can be turned to military purposes?
With the sanctions on Iran being softened, how likely do you think it is that Siemens is them parts that would work in centrifuges? As I recall there were many European firms that helped Saddam in his day.
There has existed a perception that large corporate compilers of information reluctantly acquiesced to the full might of national security orders and subpoenas..
What's in it for me? is a sweet, sweet incentivizer, too.
So, did Snowden release any documents as proof? I don't recall seeing any. If the data isn't passed to corporations that wouldn't seem to be very useful.
That isn't conspiracy, it is a record of interaction, and Dr. Mann was evasive and nonresponsive as the record shows. Anything you can point to now doesn't change the history, and that is assuming that what you have pointed to is relevant. As the first link shows Mann repeatedly refused to cooperate in making his data properly available for inspection.
Slashdot Mirror
Manning is in prison, that is hardly barbaric. Manning leaked classified data, not challenge real injustices opposed by society.
Quick question what about the General who lied through his teeth when questioned by Congress and the Senate?
It wasn't what you think.
Wyden’s Stunt Was Congress at its Worst
Snowden did not lie, he just uncovered what was the truth.
You have the basic question wrong. Snowden revealed classified information. It isn't a question of true or false, it is a question of who is legally allowed to see it. He compromised American intelligence operations, and those of allied nations. Snowden broke trust, and people are confused about it.
The problem is the NSA was too zealous in its gathering techniques.
Snowden arrogantly undermined democratic principles and acted like a vigilante.
The AC's post is false. Bush never pardoned himself.
ScentCone's reply is correct.
You might be overstating things a bit.
Wyden’s Stunt Was Congress at its Worst
The problem is that there doesn't seem to be any law that creates those "crimes," only rhetoric. Law doesn't work like that in general. Do you want to face a judge or police office that only relies on the "law written in their heart"? Or do you prefer the law as written? We're constantly told here that paying taxes is part of the price of civilization, well so is obeying laws that you might not agree with. (Unless you want to make the case that we are dealing with some sort of crime against humanity here.)
If he had gone to the IG or Congress he might have eventually lost his job, but "a bullet to the head"? No.
I think you make a good point there. Of course there is the flip side in which it may be possible to keep big ticket items in service longer since replacement parts could be less of an issue. It could be a boon to people doing restoration or maintenance work on older equipment, but it may also eat into sales of new equipment.
And then there is the impact on logistics. If more fabrication of parts can be done locally it will likely reduce the total volume of shipping, for at least some part of the supply chain. That could increase the cost of shipping, although fuel consumption might go down. Could there be an impact like email has had on the Post Office?
Hard to say what the total impact will be, other than things will be different. And you are right in stating that it isn't always an easy transition.
This is great news for prototyping! Hopefully it will help kindle innovation, new companies, new industries, manufacturing, and the economy. Let the innovation commence.
I would think it could be pretty handy for various scientific uses as well.
And the proper place to take those allegation for investigation and possible prosecution would have been the Inspector General or Congress. That didn't happen.
I see your point of confusion, you think that the NSA has been involved with, to use your phrase, "vast, incredibly illegal spying." That isn't true. Nothing that the NSA has been doing has been shown to violate US law, at least that I'm aware of. Snowden, on the other hand, appear to basically have admitted to violating:
18 U.S.C. 793 : US Code - Section 793: Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information.
18 U.S.C. 798 : US Code - Section 798: Disclosure of classified information
He may also have committed a violation of:
18 U.S.C. 794 : US Code - Section 794: Gathering or delivering defense information to aid foreign government
The most likely punishment would be a long prison sentence. In the highly unlikely event that he would be subject to the death penalty, the current Federal method of execution is lethal injection, not firing squad.
I hope that answers your questions.
You left out the obvious and best choice: Hero of Russia, nee Hero of the Soviet Union
At least the choice of music is easy - it is the same as the old Hymn of the Soviet Union.
I'm not sure how you got this wrong, but lets take it from the beginning.
In the past Iran was an ally of the West. It was legal to sell arms and other goods to it. That is how it acquired American arms like the F-14. After the revolution the Iranian government become hostile, and eventually was sanctioned. There were various companies that violated those sanctions, including European companies. Knowing about those violations is a legitimate question for intelligence agencies to investigate.
The sanction regime has not been lifted as you erroneously state, but it has been modified. Either way it would be a legitimate issue to investigate if countries were selling goods to Iran that could be used to further its nuclear program or for military use.
Espionage could include both the question of what nuclear material is being sold to Iran, and the trade secrets in its manufacture. I have little doubt there is activity to determine what is being sold to Iran, but the claims are that trade secrets are being stolen, for which there doesn't seem to be any proof.
Certainly nobody wants to have a chilling effect on stealing millions of classified documents and fleeing to foreign countries.
He deserves a ticker tape parade and to be listed among the great patriots who sacrificed personal safety and comfort in the name of liberty.
I've been wondering what the view of the Canadian left would be. I think we can probably agree that he will become known as a great Russian patriot although I didn't realize that Russia was lacking in creature comforts. Well, let's hope he didn't teach the next cell how to avoid detection.
Americans can own artillery, it is just both expensive and hard to come by. The license costs also make them expensive to shoot, but it can be done.
Probably sold by now: Bofors L60 40mm Machine Gun for Sale
no proof needed. It's too obvious.
It's "obvious" in much the same way that other false things have been "obvious" over the years on Slashdot.
It's kind of disappointing to see you stop short like that. As long as you're freeing inventing things you should claim that they are a conspiracy to form a world government for the .000001% that will then collect the sweat of the poor to form an artificial lake to float their boats for their yacht parties where endangered species will be served for dinner.
You have to admit that the civilian market for rail guns, field artillery, and radar jammers is pretty small.
The difference being the American armaments were received before the revolution, and when it was legal.
The point being that intelligence agencies can have a legitimate interest in commercial activity besides theft of trade secrets. I will also point out that not every firm has honored sanctions.
Litigious Laureate
From Dr. Mann's complaint filed in the Superior Court of the District of Columbia - Civil Division
"As a result of this research, Dr. Mann and his colleagues were awarded the Nobel Peace Prize."
Sanctions on Iran have been reduced, and many European firms are anxious to resume their work there. Do you think it is possible that some of them will be assisting Iran with military projects, or providing dual use goods that can be turned to military purposes?
I find that there is no shortage of false things that "everyone already knows" on Slashdot.
With the sanctions on Iran being softened, how likely do you think it is that Siemens is them parts that would work in centrifuges? As I recall there were many European firms that helped Saddam in his day.
This actually makes perfect sense.
There has existed a perception that large corporate compilers of information reluctantly acquiesced to the full might of national security orders and subpoenas..
What's in it for me? is a sweet, sweet incentivizer, too.
So, did Snowden release any documents as proof? I don't recall seeing any. If the data isn't passed to corporations that wouldn't seem to be very useful.
There is plenty of BS to go around on this topic, including from Dr. Mann.
That isn't conspiracy, it is a record of interaction, and Dr. Mann was evasive and nonresponsive as the record shows. Anything you can point to now doesn't change the history, and that is assuming that what you have pointed to is relevant. As the first link shows Mann repeatedly refused to cooperate in making his data properly available for inspection.