I think it's funny that the government thinks it's OK to take our information, but when we get to see their information, they cry like a five year old with a skinned knee.
Apparently you aren't aware that governments almost universally have powers that ordinary individual citizens don't. Government generally have a monopoly on the legal use of force. They are generally the only ones able to imprison you, or tax you, or formally arrest you, or legally remove your liberty by sending you to prison, and many other powers. By nature of their powers they are often in possession of considerable amounts of confidential information that they have a duty to keep confidential, such as your tax, health, and police records. That is before you get to the question of confidential intelligence information necessary to protect society. It is really quite odd that you fail to recognize that. Do you simply think of the government as your playmate?
It isn't human trafficking, it is human smuggling. The human smuggling is already occurring, it isn't occurring because of the leaks. The leaks have created diplomatic problems that are likely to prevent effective intervention against the smuggling.
It would be gratifying if you could bother to get it right.
You have it backwards. Intelligence operations by the police and security agencies are often important sources for the intelligence necessary to enforce the law and stop human smuggling and trafficking.
I mean, what kind of jingoist, fascist asshole blames the guy who risked his ass to bring the evil deeds of clandestine criminal groups into the sunlight?
So you disagree with my stand opposing human smuggling and trafficking, the hacking of hospitals, anti-slavery charities, and other NGOs, not to mention opposing the killing by the hundreds of innocent tourists having a nice vacation?
No, it's clearly the new of the leaks that did it. Last week there wasn't a diplomatic crisis, then the leaks came, and now there is a diplomatic crisis.
Quiet diplomacy is only possible when confidentiality is possible.
There will probably be more human smuggling and trafficking due to Snowden.
The president of Brazil explicitly condemned spying on diplomats in her speech at the UN. Brazil has been revealed to spy on diplomats. It's not a subtle point, and very little counting is required to understand it.
I certainly wouldn't disparage the ability of Brazilian programmers. In fact Brazil is actually an under appreciated powerhouse in that regard based on what I have seen. I also wouldn't doubt that many of them are proud Brazilians willing to assist their government if asked to do so.
Even if Brazil isn't currently engaged in espionage, it has much more potential than many people give it credit for. Even in military affairs this is true. After all, it was Brazil that taught the Chinese many lessons about operating aircraft carriers.
There's only been one leak.... so far, so we really don't know the extent of Brazil's intelligence operations. As a major regional power with aspirations for wider global influence it's practically impossible to believe that Brazil doesn't engage in much broader espionage than what has been revealed in this report.
Also note that spying on diplomats was one of the things President Rousseff condemned in her speech at the UN.
"Also, Brazilian diplomatic missions, among them the permanent mission to the UN and the office of the president of the republic itself, had their communications intercepted," Rousseff said... "Tampering in such a manner in the affairs of other countries is a breach of international law and is an affront of the principles that must guide the relations among them, especially among friendly nations.
Brazil has an international initiative to build a regionally focused internet section with direct connection to other regions. How do we know that part of Brazil's actual intent isn't to make it easier to spy on its neighbors? They have all the plans to do it in country, and we already know that the data is available to a Brazilian.
I fail to understand why international espionage comes as a shock to anyone.
There is a simple rule to understand. If the US or UK* does it, shock and outrage follows. If anyone else does it, the reaction is, "everybody does it" and a pass is given.
It is a bit different when a particular upgrade in a national intelligence system is due to your personal actions.
It seems fairly clear that Snowden's motivation was a combination of ideological and disgruntlement. The KGB and GRU made good use of such useful idiots over the years. Snowden stayed at the Russian consulate in Hong Kong and had his birthday party there, as well as made travel arrangements. He was working with the Kremlin and Russian security services long before was openly acknowledged. His spokesman in Russia is the chairman of the FSB's public committee. The only real question is, was he working with them before getting to Hong Kong? Perhaps he wasn't, but a number of former Soviet bloc and Russian intelligence officers are fairly certain Snowden is an FSB asset. Circumstances and the available evidence don't seem to contradict that assessment.
There is another interpretation which based on what I know appears to be the correct one. The issue isn't necessarily that the government is bending the rules, ignoring the Constitution, but that there is widespread misconception of what the rules actually are under the specific situation under consideration as it exists in law and as interpreted by the courts. Part of the root of the misconception is that people are applying the rules as applied to criminal procedure without considering the national security powers under article II of the Constitution in time of war when combined with the previous decisions of the court. The government is actually following the rules, but many people fail to understand what the rules actually are and mistakenly believe the law is being broken. This understandably produces outrage and various comments about traitor this and that.
Snowden and Manning aren't necessarily symptoms of a government run amok, but rather the result of the synergistic misunderstanding regarding the law combined with the ideology of "information wants to be free," and leftist politics. They were no doubt both well schooled in the ideological position of the US being the great evil in the world as in common in some circles. It is a toxic mix, and one which will be afflicting the US for decades to come. Prior to the second world war Britain was afflicted by pacifism which delayed British rearmament in the face of the German threat. It cost them dearly during the war. As it stands now, anyone, including al Qaida, China, Iran, Russian, or anyone else, that wants what had been some of the most closely guarded secrets of the US and its allies need only go to the web site of a few common newspapers to find them and use them to their own advantage. One can only wonder what the leaks of Snowden and Manning will end up costing the US. It could be dear indeed. Britain nearly succumbed to starvation by submarine warfare, and almost certainly would have if the secret that they had broken the Enigma codes had leaked out. John Walker gave the Soviets the means to read US military codes and the Soviets probably would have defeated the US Navy at sea if a shooting war had come about in the late 1960s - 1980s. That could very well have meant slavery for Europe and the crushing of America. What will the loss of these secrets cost?
I know someone that has a PhD in physics, has made respectable contributions in various research projects of interest to both government and industry, last I knew was the chairman of a college physics department, and is a creationist. There is no contradiction there. Knowing and playing by the rules of football doesn't mean you can't know and play by the rules of basketball.
It's fascinating the way that the ankle biters that follow me around seem to continually reveal themselves to have some sort of emotional, mental, or character problem. I hope you get better.
all those opaque cant-see-thru orgs have no reason to exist other than TO exist and keep themselves in power. blech! the american public (and world public) has had enough of this BS!
The TSA, CIA, NSA aren't "in power." They answer to the government in power, just like the FBI, Interior Department, Coast Guard, Social Security administration, and a host of other government agencies.
Slashdot Mirror
Please, show me the quote in this forum.
When you can't disprove what someone says you simply assassinate their character
You do seem to use that strategy a lot.
I think it's funny that the government thinks it's OK to take our information, but when we get to see their information, they cry like a five year old with a skinned knee.
Apparently you aren't aware that governments almost universally have powers that ordinary individual citizens don't. Government generally have a monopoly on the legal use of force. They are generally the only ones able to imprison you, or tax you, or formally arrest you, or legally remove your liberty by sending you to prison, and many other powers. By nature of their powers they are often in possession of considerable amounts of confidential information that they have a duty to keep confidential, such as your tax, health, and police records. That is before you get to the question of confidential intelligence information necessary to protect society. It is really quite odd that you fail to recognize that. Do you simply think of the government as your playmate?
It isn't human trafficking, it is human smuggling. The human smuggling is already occurring, it isn't occurring because of the leaks. The leaks have created diplomatic problems that are likely to prevent effective intervention against the smuggling.
It would be gratifying if you could bother to get it right.
You have it backwards. Intelligence operations by the police and security agencies are often important sources for the intelligence necessary to enforce the law and stop human smuggling and trafficking.
So what justification do I use?
That weak attempt to discredit someone by claiming they support policies that no rational person would ever support
Those policies or practices are obviously supported by somebody otherwise they wouldn't be happening.
I disagree with your insistence to suck fed cock by
I support no such thing.
laying the blame for their crimes one the one dude
He was able to commit crimes of his own.
I mean, what kind of jingoist, fascist asshole blames the guy who risked his ass to bring the evil deeds of clandestine criminal groups into the sunlight?
So you disagree with my stand opposing human smuggling and trafficking, the hacking of hospitals, anti-slavery charities, and other NGOs, not to mention opposing the killing by the hundreds of innocent tourists having a nice vacation?
Figures.
No, it's clearly the new of the leaks that did it. Last week there wasn't a diplomatic crisis, then the leaks came, and now there is a diplomatic crisis.
Quiet diplomacy is only possible when confidentiality is possible.
There will probably be more human smuggling and trafficking due to Snowden.
The president of Brazil explicitly condemned spying on diplomats in her speech at the UN. Brazil has been revealed to spy on diplomats. It's not a subtle point, and very little counting is required to understand it.
I certainly wouldn't disparage the ability of Brazilian programmers. In fact Brazil is actually an under appreciated powerhouse in that regard based on what I have seen. I also wouldn't doubt that many of them are proud Brazilians willing to assist their government if asked to do so.
Even if Brazil isn't currently engaged in espionage, it has much more potential than many people give it credit for. Even in military affairs this is true. After all, it was Brazil that taught the Chinese many lessons about operating aircraft carriers.
There's only been one leak.... so far, so we really don't know the extent of Brazil's intelligence operations. As a major regional power with aspirations for wider global influence it's practically impossible to believe that Brazil doesn't engage in much broader espionage than what has been revealed in this report.
Also note that spying on diplomats was one of the things President Rousseff condemned in her speech at the UN.
Brazilian president: US surveillance a 'breach of international law'
"Also, Brazilian diplomatic missions, among them the permanent mission to the UN and the office of the president of the republic itself, had their communications intercepted," Rousseff said ... "Tampering in such a manner in the affairs of other countries is a breach of international law and is an affront of the principles that must guide the relations among them, especially among friendly nations.
Brazil has an international initiative to build a regionally focused internet section with direct connection to other regions. How do we know that part of Brazil's actual intent isn't to make it easier to spy on its neighbors? They have all the plans to do it in country, and we already know that the data is available to a Brazilian.
I fail to understand why international espionage comes as a shock to anyone.
There is a simple rule to understand. If the US or UK* does it, shock and outrage follows. If anyone else does it, the reaction is, "everybody does it" and a pass is given.
* Or any other country in the Anglosphere
You missed something.
Brazilian intelligence spied on rooms rented out by the US embassy in Brasilia from 2003 to 2004.
I'm pretty sure they weren't tailing foreign diplomats in a room.
Unfortunately we don't have well over 60,000 documents on Brazilian intelligence operations to sort through to know more about what was going on.
I'll sum this up as: Brazil caught spying, Slashdot commentator condemns US. Film at 11.
Beautiful switch you did there, substituting "mass surveillance" for "spying on diplomats." I wonder how many people will notice?
By the way, how do you know that Brazil both doesn't do it, and isn't heading in that direction if they aren't?
Sauce for the goose? Or is it crow? I wonder how they prepare crow in Brazil?
It is a bit different when a particular upgrade in a national intelligence system is due to your personal actions.
It seems fairly clear that Snowden's motivation was a combination of ideological and disgruntlement. The KGB and GRU made good use of such useful idiots over the years. Snowden stayed at the Russian consulate in Hong Kong and had his birthday party there, as well as made travel arrangements. He was working with the Kremlin and Russian security services long before was openly acknowledged. His spokesman in Russia is the chairman of the FSB's public committee. The only real question is, was he working with them before getting to Hong Kong? Perhaps he wasn't, but a number of former Soviet bloc and Russian intelligence officers are fairly certain Snowden is an FSB asset. Circumstances and the available evidence don't seem to contradict that assessment.
There is another interpretation which based on what I know appears to be the correct one. The issue isn't necessarily that the government is bending the rules, ignoring the Constitution, but that there is widespread misconception of what the rules actually are under the specific situation under consideration as it exists in law and as interpreted by the courts. Part of the root of the misconception is that people are applying the rules as applied to criminal procedure without considering the national security powers under article II of the Constitution in time of war when combined with the previous decisions of the court. The government is actually following the rules, but many people fail to understand what the rules actually are and mistakenly believe the law is being broken. This understandably produces outrage and various comments about traitor this and that.
Snowden and Manning aren't necessarily symptoms of a government run amok, but rather the result of the synergistic misunderstanding regarding the law combined with the ideology of "information wants to be free," and leftist politics. They were no doubt both well schooled in the ideological position of the US being the great evil in the world as in common in some circles. It is a toxic mix, and one which will be afflicting the US for decades to come. Prior to the second world war Britain was afflicted by pacifism which delayed British rearmament in the face of the German threat. It cost them dearly during the war. As it stands now, anyone, including al Qaida, China, Iran, Russian, or anyone else, that wants what had been some of the most closely guarded secrets of the US and its allies need only go to the web site of a few common newspapers to find them and use them to their own advantage. One can only wonder what the leaks of Snowden and Manning will end up costing the US. It could be dear indeed. Britain nearly succumbed to starvation by submarine warfare, and almost certainly would have if the secret that they had broken the Enigma codes had leaked out. John Walker gave the Soviets the means to read US military codes and the Soviets probably would have defeated the US Navy at sea if a shooting war had come about in the late 1960s - 1980s. That could very well have meant slavery for Europe and the crushing of America. What will the loss of these secrets cost?
Well then, who can argue with that?
REPLACING TRIDENT
The warheads carried by the Trident missiles are manufactured and designed in the UK by the Atomic Weapons Establishment.
No, not really.
REPLACING TRIDENT
The warheads carried by the Trident missiles are manufactured and designed in the UK by the Atomic Weapons Establishment.
I know someone that has a PhD in physics, has made respectable contributions in various research projects of interest to both government and industry, last I knew was the chairman of a college physics department, and is a creationist. There is no contradiction there. Knowing and playing by the rules of football doesn't mean you can't know and play by the rules of basketball.
Did the "selfish mining pools" us a Greedy algorithm?
It's fascinating the way that the ankle biters that follow me around seem to continually reveal themselves to have some sort of emotional, mental, or character problem. I hope you get better.
oh, none of us who are aware of thre reality would weep any tears if the tsa, nsa and even cia went away tomorrow.
I'm curious, does the "reality" you inhabit have foreign nations simultaneously revealing their nuclear submarine force along with state media published maps of nuclear strikes against the US?
Does your "reality" include another foreign nations probing the defenses of the US and its allies with nuclear bombers?
Russian bombers buzz U.S. territory — again
Russian Bombers Perform Simulated "Strikes" on Sweden, U.S.
US scrambles jet fighters after Russian nuclear bombers circle American airspace over Guam
Pictured: The moment RAF jets intercepted Russian bombers flying in British airspace
Do US allies in your "reality" worry about invasion or blackmail by rearming adversaries?
NATO stages exercise as rearming Russia worries some allies
Did the TSA in your "reality" keep 1,549 firearms off planes, not to mention other weapons?
TSA Finds Guns on Hundreds of Passengers Each Year
all those opaque cant-see-thru orgs have no reason to exist other than TO exist and keep themselves in power. blech! the american public (and world public) has had enough of this BS!
The TSA, CIA, NSA aren't "in power." They answer to the government in power, just like the FBI, Interior Department, Coast Guard, Social Security administration, and a host of other government agencies.
I hope this gets shared widely in school science classes and among the home schooled.
Science is open to people of all ages.