Honestly, I was happy with KDE 3 + compiz. And still am on some days (TDE is great!). I was not happy that I had to move my old work laptops (Dell C400 and D510, I needed the serial ports) back to Windows because they're no longer supported in Linux (and I was required to run 'supported and up to date' software and such by workplace requirements at the time).
Canonical is innocent - it's Red Hat's doing. Just like Pulseaudio and a million other innovations (some good, some less then good). But Red Hat has had a hand in most of the desktop development that people see.
we're repairing the damage your favourite idiots created by building the world you love with such a ridiculous, outdated mentality, no wonder the desktop never arrived on linux with people like you around...
Maybe we don't care about Linux on the desktop like that? Maybe we like, I don't know....stuff that is easy for us to configure? You know, for the guys that are the reason Linux dominates the server market?
The response we get back from the developers is 'We're going to do what we want! Forget the people that are already using! We have to target the people that don't care!'
And as a result, I've started liking Windows better on the desktop. Not sure what I want to run on servers anymore. Maybe I'll revive my IRIX boxes, SGI seems to like stability (and I just got quotes on extending the support contracts too. Apparently IRIX on Octanes is still a fully supported operating system)
I can recompile and run 20 year old SunOS apps no problem with OpenSolaris. Try that with Linux?
Depends on what it's looking for, but in theory should work. 20 years? CLI or GUI based? Probably wants TCL/TK and/or Motiff if it's GUI, make sure they're installed. I'm willing to try, if you have source code that old...
Hairyfeet mentioned he tried linux and people kept calling back angry that their printer stopped working after an Ubuntu update.
I did not even know it existed? I will keep Linux on a VM I suppose but only CentOS as Redhat likes to make somewhat ABIs that do not break after each freaking update!
If you need stability then you should go with a stable OS. Fedora, OpenSuSE, and Ubuntu change too fast for enterprise use - which is what makes RHEL great.
With that said, I don't seem to have issues running some older software I have laying around for Linux. Oracle Database 8 installed on RHEL 5 when I tried it last, old version of Code Forge IDE ran in new Fedora Linux (think I installed it last on FC 16, designed for Red Hat Linux 5.x/6.x (old Red Hat, not RHEL). Similar results with Matlab. The software isn't broken by kernel changes - the libraries needed do change (static linked vs dynamic linked, makes a big difference in how long your software lasts) (stuff looking for a particular glib or libc seem to be the biggest offenders in Linux, from what I've seen). Windows has seen some issues with that over the years (dropping DOS libraries, dropping Win 16 from 64 bit Windows, etc).
Most UNIX operating systems do seem to maintain greater compatibility in userland, but I've issues on IRIX with stuff built for 5.x not working on my systems (Octanes running 6.5.x) - but it's the same deal - dynamically linked programs not being able to find their libraries.
I was thinking along the lines based off of OpenSPARC T2 in mobile form (I guess that's like wanting a mobile PPC G5...). I'd buy it just to be awesome, wouldn't care if it was running Ubuntu/Fedora/FreeBSD/Solaris.
Then you'll need either MIPS or SPARC. Actually, a mobile SPARC would be pretty awesome. I'd consider a MIPS laptop too, but only if it could run IRIX.
Wayland - the guys who built X? No, they are the guys that maintain X.org. I doubt any had any part of actually constructing X11, X10, or any other version all those years ago. The problem is it stayed at X11, and was slowly modified over time. With that said, there is nothing wrong with X11. They just want to have a project that they can say they did.
KMS - It's a pain in the rear. I don't want to have my text console default to whatever resolution that my monitor might be. And I wish I could still use my P3 laptop that I was using as a netbook - with the introduction of KMS Intel i8xx broke completely. And no, the VESA driver isn't an answer to that. It's sad that that laptop will run Windows 7 and 8 but not a recent Linux.
I know plenty of people who can't stand GRUB 2. KMS really isn't an issue for a lot of people - only if you're running old systems does it become a problem.
Adding on to that - it gets uglier because of the time between major releases in RH. His Gentoo install is probably updated weekly. Try updating a Gentoo install that's a year or two out of date (or older). Just try.
My current longest Fedora run has gone from Fedora 9 to 18, without too many issues.
It boils down to Red Hat is the name business knows. And relies on for support. The Fedora Project, aside from being a testing ground for RHEL, is very involved in upstream development, as is Red Hat in general. Thus giving RH/FC a solid standing with a lot of people.
Plus, Red Hat offers more products then just Linux for workstations and servers.
Users were happy with GNOME 2.x - they hated 3.x. Ubuntu tried to do something about it, which the users didn't like either.
Personally, I feel like you've captured the spirit of current Linux development. Don't like something? Developers don't care. You don't have a choice. Systemd, GRUB2, GNOME3, Wayland, KMS - doesn't matter, you're getting it whether you want it or not. And the old versions (or previous products) are left to die (until projects like MATE and Trinity form later on, if you're lucky).
FWIW, I still can't configure GRUB 2 easily. And KMS broke Linux on several laptops that I was still using. Linux does not run well on old hardware, and really doesn't run well anymore (period).
Cars are disposable devices? I am sure my 95 Saturn and 88 Ford would love to be told that (with 255K and 150K miles on them, respectively. I drive ~80 miles on a work day).
I think you meant to say open source developers. Plenty of projects (X and Wayland, for example) don't care about legacy compatibility, it is just in their way...
More importantly, major Linux vendors (Red Hat and Canonical in particular, I think Novell is the odd ball on this one) don't release for Itanium. Power is still supported by many, and ARM is a rising star, but IA64 seems to be heading the way MIPS went....
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I was referring to systemd becoming the defacto standard. No idea on kdbus.
Don't tempt us. The users, admins, and engineers that have to keep these systems running are not happy.
Honestly, I was happy with KDE 3 + compiz. And still am on some days (TDE is great!). I was not happy that I had to move my old work laptops (Dell C400 and D510, I needed the serial ports) back to Windows because they're no longer supported in Linux (and I was required to run 'supported and up to date' software and such by workplace requirements at the time).
Canonical is innocent - it's Red Hat's doing. Just like Pulseaudio and a million other innovations (some good, some less then good). But Red Hat has had a hand in most of the desktop development that people see.
we're repairing the damage your favourite idiots created by building the world you love with such a ridiculous, outdated mentality, no wonder the desktop never arrived on linux with people like you around...
Maybe we don't care about Linux on the desktop like that? Maybe we like, I don't know....stuff that is easy for us to configure? You know, for the guys that are the reason Linux dominates the server market?
The response we get back from the developers is 'We're going to do what we want! Forget the people that are already using! We have to target the people that don't care!'
And as a result, I've started liking Windows better on the desktop. Not sure what I want to run on servers anymore. Maybe I'll revive my IRIX boxes, SGI seems to like stability (and I just got quotes on extending the support contracts too. Apparently IRIX on Octanes is still a fully supported operating system)
That, and it seems like the biggest headaches (but not all of them, systemd how I hate thee) are desktop related.
I can recompile and run 20 year old SunOS apps no problem with OpenSolaris. Try that with Linux?
Depends on what it's looking for, but in theory should work. 20 years? CLI or GUI based? Probably wants TCL/TK and/or Motiff if it's GUI, make sure they're installed. I'm willing to try, if you have source code that old...
Hairyfeet mentioned he tried linux and people kept calling back angry that their printer stopped working after an Ubuntu update.
I did not even know it existed? I will keep Linux on a VM I suppose but only CentOS as Redhat likes to make somewhat ABIs that do not break after each freaking update!
If you need stability then you should go with a stable OS. Fedora, OpenSuSE, and Ubuntu change too fast for enterprise use - which is what makes RHEL great.
With that said, I don't seem to have issues running some older software I have laying around for Linux. Oracle Database 8 installed on RHEL 5 when I tried it last, old version of Code Forge IDE ran in new Fedora Linux (think I installed it last on FC 16, designed for Red Hat Linux 5.x/6.x (old Red Hat, not RHEL). Similar results with Matlab. The software isn't broken by kernel changes - the libraries needed do change (static linked vs dynamic linked, makes a big difference in how long your software lasts) (stuff looking for a particular glib or libc seem to be the biggest offenders in Linux, from what I've seen). Windows has seen some issues with that over the years (dropping DOS libraries, dropping Win 16 from 64 bit Windows, etc).
Most UNIX operating systems do seem to maintain greater compatibility in userland, but I've issues on IRIX with stuff built for 5.x not working on my systems (Octanes running 6.5.x) - but it's the same deal - dynamically linked programs not being able to find their libraries.
I was thinking along the lines based off of OpenSPARC T2 in mobile form (I guess that's like wanting a mobile PPC G5...). I'd buy it just to be awesome, wouldn't care if it was running Ubuntu/Fedora/FreeBSD/Solaris.
Guess if I really wanted I could build something like this: http://www.jumboprawn.net/jesse/projs/laptop.html, but it certainly wouldn't be low powered.
You missed my "if it could run IRIX" add on. I've thought about them, and realized that Linux on MIPS isn't what I want to run on a laptop.
Then you'll need either MIPS or SPARC. Actually, a mobile SPARC would be pretty awesome. I'd consider a MIPS laptop too, but only if it could run IRIX.
That GNOME developed....I think you mean that Novell, Red Hat, and Sun Microsystems developed....
Not an option for those users...part of the reason I'm glad I don't do dev work anymore.
That selects a file, not a folder. I've been in the GP's position before - you have to use Java at best, ActiveX at worst.
Wayland - the guys who built X? No, they are the guys that maintain X.org. I doubt any had any part of actually constructing X11, X10, or any other version all those years ago. The problem is it stayed at X11, and was slowly modified over time. With that said, there is nothing wrong with X11. They just want to have a project that they can say they did.
KMS - It's a pain in the rear. I don't want to have my text console default to whatever resolution that my monitor might be. And I wish I could still use my P3 laptop that I was using as a netbook - with the introduction of KMS Intel i8xx broke completely. And no, the VESA driver isn't an answer to that. It's sad that that laptop will run Windows 7 and 8 but not a recent Linux.
I know plenty of people who can't stand GRUB 2. KMS really isn't an issue for a lot of people - only if you're running old systems does it become a problem.
Adding on to that - it gets uglier because of the time between major releases in RH. His Gentoo install is probably updated weekly. Try updating a Gentoo install that's a year or two out of date (or older). Just try.
My current longest Fedora run has gone from Fedora 9 to 18, without too many issues.
RHEL doesn't have GNOME 3 yet...
It boils down to Red Hat is the name business knows. And relies on for support. The Fedora Project, aside from being a testing ground for RHEL, is very involved in upstream development, as is Red Hat in general. Thus giving RH/FC a solid standing with a lot of people.
Plus, Red Hat offers more products then just Linux for workstations and servers.
Users were happy with GNOME 2.x - they hated 3.x. Ubuntu tried to do something about it, which the users didn't like either.
Personally, I feel like you've captured the spirit of current Linux development. Don't like something? Developers don't care. You don't have a choice. Systemd, GRUB2, GNOME3, Wayland, KMS - doesn't matter, you're getting it whether you want it or not. And the old versions (or previous products) are left to die (until projects like MATE and Trinity form later on, if you're lucky).
FWIW, I still can't configure GRUB 2 easily. And KMS broke Linux on several laptops that I was still using. Linux does not run well on old hardware, and really doesn't run well anymore (period).
Cars are disposable devices? I am sure my 95 Saturn and 88 Ford would love to be told that (with 255K and 150K miles on them, respectively. I drive ~80 miles on a work day).
Doesn't matter when people just don't look before attempting to merge. Or help two people trying to merge into the same gap. Or....
I think you meant to say open source developers. Plenty of projects (X and Wayland, for example) don't care about legacy compatibility, it is just in their way...
I wasn't quite thinking about embedded.
More importantly, major Linux vendors (Red Hat and Canonical in particular, I think Novell is the odd ball on this one) don't release for Itanium. Power is still supported by many, and ARM is a rising star, but IA64 seems to be heading the way MIPS went....
That ended 10 years ago. Long time to be mad.
Is it a Tadpole computer? I don't know of too many UltraSparc laptops. I'd consider buying one if they were still available.